OverDrive - OverDrive - December 17, 2024 - Hour 3

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

Join Bryan Hayes and Jonas Siegel for Hour 3 on OverDrive! TSN NFL Analyst Jesse Palmer joins to discuss the biggest headlines around the NFL. ESPN NBA Front Office Insider Bobby Marks joins to discuss the Raptors' season views, the NBA Cup matchup between the Bucks and Thunder and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander's impressive performances and Bryan hands out his FanDuel Best Bets.

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or visit askkelvin.ca final hour overdrive continues brought to you by fan duo bringing you everything from the opening line of the final score get a big hour jesse palmer coming up here in a moment patrick mahomes full participant in practice today, said if he can play, he's going to play. What a statement. If I can play, he's going to play. And Andy Reid said the same thing. If he can play, he's going to play. So they're not thinking load management.

And I love that. I don't want load management in the National Football League. Keep it away from pro sports as much as you can. It is a poison. It'll never happen. The season's too short. The games matter too much. Exactly. But if it was ever going to happen,

Patrick Mahomes... That's an injury. ...on his chance for three-peat Super Bowl, 13-1. Right? Like, if it was ever going to happen, where, yes, you're right, like, load management is extreme,

where load management is them trying to prevent injury so they don't play a guy so that he's not overtaxed. That will never happen. But the way the NBA works right now for a lot of players is if I'm 90%, I'm probably not going to play. I might not play through that. Not everybody, but there's a lot of guys, unfortunately, that aren't going to play through that.

In the NFL, if you're, I think anything over 50%, if you're 51%, you're playing. Yeah. And I have a great appreciation for that. And especially a guy like Mahomes. And I'm not saying he wouldn't be doing this thinking, I have to represent the shield, and I got to

prove that we're tougher than everyone else. I think it's just naturally the mentality of football players especially quarterbacks leaders on teams where the job isn't finished and he's going to play and I think if you're the NFL you're somewhat conflicted because you don't want him to suffer a worse injury where it does put him in a position where he can't play in the playoffs. But you're starting to play Saturday games now. College football is out of the way. They've still got the playoffs coming up.

But you've got two games on Saturday, big profile games, and then two games on Christmas Day that Netflix has paid a fortune for in the States. And Mahomes is a part of that. And they've paid so much, and it's not a coincidence that Mahomes is going to be a part of it. I think if you're the NFL, you want him playing on that day. But at the same time, you want to make sure he's ready for the playoffs. And again, I think this is about them trying to punch that ticket so that they get that top seed.

Like, put it this way, if they win the next two games, he's clearly not going to play in week 18. He won't play against Denver. They'll sit him. Then he'll miss two weeks with the bye, and he'll be ready to rock, I would think, come the divisional round at home. Are you really worried?

I guess my counter would be like, are you worried about playing, if you're the two seed, like, I forget who they would play. Would they play Denver? They would play a wild card team at that point. I'd have to look at who that might be. It might be Denver or the Chargers.

They might play LA. I think it's the Chargers. You'd feel good about yourself. But divisional game. Chargers would play them tough. Can I ask you, are you going to watch this Rogers thing? On Netflix? As a former Packer fan?

Not a former Packer fan. It's about the return from the Achilles, right? Because I know how he returned and how it's fallen flat, I'm not as interested. If they were 11-3 right now or whatever it is and going to the playoffs and he was in the MVP pursuit, I would be much more compelled to know how he got himself there. But he's fallen so flat.

And he hasn't been awful statistically. Aaron Rodgers has not played horribly. But he hasn't been great and the team's a mess. And it's been such a soap opera. It's been so negative that I've lost interest mostly in Aaron Rodgers. I just don't find it that interesting anymore. You're apathetic now. Somewhat, yeah. I don't hate on the guy. I just don't really it that interesting anymore. You're apathetic now. Somewhat, yeah.

I don't hate on the guy. I just don't really care about his story anymore. Do you still think another team is going to sign him? Yeah, I think a team would sign him. I think there's a lot of desperate teams in the NFL that need a quarterback or that think they're a quarterback away from being a competitive team. That's what the Jets thought. The Jets thought we'll bring him in and that's all

we need. We have everything else. We have the best defense in the league. We got all these weapons. All we need is Aaron Rodgers. And look what happened. There will be another team out there that would do that. But there's a version of their season where it's not as crazy. They lost a lot of weird games. They fire the coach after

five games. Well, that's because their owner doesn't know what he's doing. It is a mess. games. Well, that's because their owner doesn't know what he's doing. And it is a mess. Like Aaron Rodgers, there's nothing he could do to succeed with the Jets. The Jets will Jets. That's what they do. They will eventually turn on themselves and implode and fall apart. And that's what's happened here.

But yeah, I think if he wants to play somewhere else, I believe someone else would sign him. I can't give you that team right now, but I think someone else would be willing to pay him and play him and hope that he can find the magic from three years ago. Here's TSN NFL analyst Jesse Palmer joining us back on Overdrive. Where do you stand on that, Jesse? Let's say the Jets decide, Aaron, we're going a separate way.

We don't want you to be a Jet anymore. If he decides he still wants to play, do you think there would be a market for him in the NFL next season? I think so. I mean, just based on what he's accomplished and what I think he still has left. Obviously, he hasn't played great this year. You guys were just touching on it, though. I mean, a lot has gone wrong around him as well. But he is aaron rogers i absolutely think there would be there would be a market for him somewhere else and um i think that's either a team that feels like the jacks thought this year going in like they were just one piece short at the quarterback position um or it might be a team that is getting set to draft the quarterback early in the first round

and just wants him to sort of be there as a guide and someone that can kind of demonstrate what it takes at the position to succeed. Whether or not the Raiders would entertain that, whether or not the Giants would entertain that, I don't know. But I think those are the two likely scenarios for a landing spot if he were to move after this season. We were talking about Patrick Mahomes before you came on and the high ankle sprain. I guess he was a full participant

in practice today and he said if he can play, he will play. And Andy Reid said the same thing. They're not going to hold them out with the anticipation that they're going to the playoffs and maybe we'll wait for that. What do you make of that messaging, that mentality, the idea that they're 13-1,

they've won back-to-back super bowls already they're going for three straight mahomes has done it all he's won it all he's made it all it'd be an easy way out to say high ankle sprain i'm sore i'm not going to play yet it sounds as if he wants to and he likely will what do you make of that mentality and in that approach by patrick mahomes i think he should. I think that's Patrick Mahomes. But you mentioned, I mean, this is a guy that's played with high ankle sprains before, right? We just saw it last year in the playoff. I mean, beating the Bengals, or a couple years ago, sorry,

beating the Bengals and then beating the Eagles with the high ankle sprain and still being able to play at a really high level. I've had multiple high ankle sprains throughout my career to both ankles, and it's brutal when it's your left ankle, let alone the right ankle. That's your plant foot, the one you're pushing out to generate velocity on throws. But he's extremely tough. And the crazy part about a guy like that is 80% of Patrick Mahomes is still good enough

to beat 31 other NFL teams on any given Sunday. Let's not forget, listen, this playoff race right now and the race for the one seed and the AFC is crazy right now. I mean, with Buffalo and Kansas City's trying to lock that up and they need Patrick Mahomes to do that, there would be, in my opinion, a massive drop-off if it's Carson Wentz moving forward, trying to get that race, trying to lock up home field advantage at Arrowhead throughout the rest of the year.

So if he is going to go down as one of the greatest of all time, if maybe not the greatest of all time when it's all said and done, who knows? But if Patrick Mahomes goes into Andy Reid's office and says, dude, I'm playing, you're letting him play. You're letting him go, and he's the ultimate competitor. He wants to do that,

and I think he should be afforded that luxury. Jesse, do you think the Chiefs are maybe, this sounds weird because they have one loss, do you think they're being slept on a little bit? Because people talk about them, and it's like, well, they're not really winning that great. They don't really have great weapons.

We talked about a lot of the same things last year and then it's like, why did we ever doubt them? Do you think it's different this year or is it the same? No, I think it's the same. I think it's a great point you make. I feel like in the NFL, and maybe we're like this in other leagues too because we're talking about the NFL,

I just feel like we're oftentimes about the flavor of the week each and every week. And I think it's we're oftentimes about the flavor of the week, each and every week. And I think it's whatever the big story is. In some weeks, it's Lamar Jackson, it's the Ravens, and are they the team to beat? And then I feel like more recently, it's the Bills. And with good reason.

The Bills beat the Chiefs. The Bills just beat Detroit. And we're talking about the Bills now and Josh Allen, MVP, and what it's going to take for them to win the Super Bowl too. But you're absolutely right. I mean, it's Patrick Mahomes and it's Andy Reid. It's the Chiefs. And they've won two in a row. And, you know, at the end of the day, man, in any pro sport, but certainly in the NFL,

it's who cares how much you win by as long as you win. It's hard to win in that league. The league's set up for parity. You think about the salary cap, free agency, the draft, all the things that are in place. I mean, each and every week, it's a struggle, man, no matter what. And so, absolutely. I think we're always sleeping on the Chiefs, to be honest,

and we'll probably get to the postseason again, and we'll probably talk about this again. Well, they're not dominant. They're not doing this. They're not doing that. We talked about it earlier in the year. Mahomes has thrown too many interceptions. Is this sustainable?

I mean, when it comes to the playoffs, and based on what that guy has done, playing on the road like he did last year, going into hostile environments at Buffalo, at Baltimore, and winning those games against those quarterbacks, absolutely we're sleeping on them. This is still, you know, to be the best, you've got to beat the best. And this is still, based on what we've seen the last two seasons,

this is still the best team in the league. With Jesse Palmer. So you look at the other teams within the conference that will be, you know, chasing them down. The Bills obviously are right on their heels at this point. Josh Allen, it seems like a borderline lock he's going to win the MVP. Is he playing at a level

that would suggest that would make you feel better about their chances of beating the Chiefs? With everything you just said and the title that the Chiefs have earned. They're the champs. They're the best. You've got to beat them. Whether it's at Arrowhead, in Buffalo, wherever it's going to be, neutral site, it doesn't matter. But have you seen enough

out of Allen that would make you believe, for whatever reason, he's more primed to do it this year than past years? Yes. I think the only way you beat the Chiefs in the postseason, and the key here is the postseason, the only way

you beat that guy, Mahomes, in the playoffs is with a quarterback who's playing at an equal or higher level. And Josh Allen is doing that. All season long, especially these last four games, that dude, Josh Allen, is just on a completely different level. There's not a D coordinator in the league right now that has an answer for him and what he's doing, throwing, running. He said after their win against Detroit, he goes, actually, one of our best plays right now is the scramble drill, which is crazy. But when things go off script, the statistics and percentages show you that completion percentages

go down and interceptions go up. That's not the case with Josh Allen right now. It's like backyard sandlot football, and it's always working. It's absolutely crazy. And we always talk about defense wins championships. That would worry you a lot right now if you're the Buffalo Bills. And I think they're the only team in NFL history outside of the 1966 Giants where they've scored at least 40 in the last two games

and also allowed at least 40 in the last two games and also allowed at least 40 in the last two games. But when you have Josh Allen, I mean, I think anything's possible. Now, it's a lot of pressure on him. You're asking a lot of him to have to keep playing at this level. But yes, based on everything we've seen this season, and especially in recent weeks, Buffalo absolutely could beat the Chiefs. They could do it at home. I think they could do it on the road.

But I'll repeat this. It's a very, very different thing to beat Mahomes in the postseason versus in the regular season. Obviously, everyone wants to win the regular season game too, but Mahomes just has a thing about him. It's kind of Jordan-esque, whatever that is, in the postseason where he elevates and he elevates everybody around him and he doesn't have to be 100% to do it. Again, 80% of Patrick Mahomes can beat 31 other NFL teams, especially

in the postseason. So yes, I think the Bills are the team to do it, but it's all because of Josh Allen. Well, what do you think has changed with Allen? Because everybody talks about ball security. I'm just looking at the picks. He had 18 picks last year. This year, five. Like, what changes?

Well, obviously, his decision-making has gotten a lot better. But I think we've got to give Joe Brady, their offensive coordinator, a ton of credit, too, and play calling. It was a master class this past weekend, especially against Detroit. But all throughout the year, Joe Brady and Josh Allen are so in sync right now. And I've talked about this a lot before. I've been really lucky throughout my career to play for great play callers offensively.

Steve Spurrier in college, Sean Payton with the New York Giants, Mike McCarthy, North Turner with the 49ers. And all of them were great throughout the week leading up to the game in terms of putting a lot of really, really good plays for a lot of different down and distances and situations on their play card and then laminating it and then taking it into the game on Sunday. But the best ones on game day are the ones that see the game and they react and they're not afraid to go off script and they set things up and there's a rhythm and there's a cadence

and the quarterback knows what the play call is going to be literally each and every down and distance based on their relationship and what they've done together throughout the season, what they did throughout the week of practice. And Joe Brady right now has such a great feel, I think, for Josh Allen and all the different concepts in the run game, in the pass game, in the RPO game, where he's just, it's like he's playing chess and everybody else

are playing checkers. They're just on a different level right now. He deserves a lot of credit. Josh Allen deserves the majority of it, obviously. But I mean, he's being set up, I think, to succeed as well. Because Joe Brady right now, man, he's dialing it up beautifully each and every week. How much of it is that Stephon Diggs isn't around anymore and Alan doesn't feel like he's got to force it to him,

or Brady for that matter, find a route, find some touches for him that forces plays as opposed to finding plays organically throughout the game? I think it's a great point. It's a great question, too, honestly, because I think when you have a guy like Stephon Diggs, oftentimes as a play caller, we're just talking about Joe Brady, it's just you feel like you have to design things for that guy specifically. coaches that feel like, you know, I have to get Stephon Diggs X amount of touches in this game. I've got to find a way.

I remember Sean Payton, we used to try to get Jeremy Shockey the ball X amount of times in the first 10 plays of the game. We've got to get Jeremy going. We've got to get him going. He plays better if you get him touches early. I'm going to formate this. We're going to throw him a screen. We're going to get him lined up one-on-one.

I'm going to line him up to split end position into the boundary and just let him work on a safety. We're just going to get the guy involved in the game. And I think sometimes there may have been a little bit of that with Stefan Diggs. It's a luxury in a lot of ways sometimes when you don't have a guy like that. And you can just say, hey, man, we're just going to call these plays. And the coverage is just simply going to dictate who gets the ball. And for Josh Allen, I don't need you to force it to this guy if it's not there. This guy in particular isn't always going to be your primary read. Just literally drop back, see what the defense is giving you, and react accordingly.

And we feel like we've got a lot of weapons and a lot of different answers on each and every play and guys that can win one-on-one on any given coverage, on any given blitz. And I think that's what the Bills have right now. There's a freedom, I think, that comes with that a little bit as a quarterback and as a play caller, too. With Jesse Palmer. So maybe you're already here.

Maybe you'll never get here. But at what point would you start to be concerned about Caleb Williams in the NFL as a Chicago Bear? So I'd be concerned now if I were the Chicago Bears. And I'd be concerned a little bit too, I think, if I was Caleb Williams because I don't know how much I've really grown in my rookie year. I'm not sure how much I've developed. This was my biggest concern about Caleb Williams coming into the league is that so much of his success at Oklahoma and then at USC

was scramble plays. And it was when things would break down and Caleb Williams is just the best athlete on the field and nobody can tackle him and he can run around and he doesn't have to play with instruction. Well, that goes away in the National Football League. And we've seen a lot of quarterbacks that sort of had those abilities in college and they struggle at the next level until they learn you've got to play on time. You just have to play on time. Justin Fields was so good off schedule at Ohio State. And then in the National Football League,

for a guy that has to see things open, that doesn't always anticipate throws, it's a lot more difficult. You have to learn to trust receivers are going to be in areas and you have to throw before they get out of breaks. You can't make every free blitz or miss. You just can't do it. Not at that level.

And so whoever the next play caller is in Chicago long-term for Caleb Williams and his development, I mean, he really needs to get with Caleb and they have to understand, look, dude, you've got to know when plays are dead. Funks are okay in this league, but we can't be taking ridiculous sacks. And, you know, our receivers don't want to run around for 15 seconds every single play waiting for you to roll out right, roll out left, break contain, and then hit a dude downfield. Everybody loves highlight plays.

We all love that. But, you know, it's like a UFC fighter. Like, you know, coaches tell their quarterbacks sometimes, you have to know when to tap out sometimes right and there's there's times you know there's something Bo Nix went through in college is he used to always try to scramble all the time at Auburn on first and second down and then he got with a coach Kenny Dillingham finally at Oregon who said man if you want to do that on third down fine but we can't be we can't be just getting crazy on first and second down because bad things happen. All of a sudden it's second 17 or it's third and 26,

and I don't have any play calls for that. And so it's a mentality more than it is anything else. Caleb Williams, when he plays on time, is remarkably good. He's accurate. He looks so good when he just takes his steps, he hitches, and the ball goes where it needs to go. But this has been obviously a massive learning experience for him this year the potential is absolutely there in my opinion coming out comparing Justin Fields and Caleb Williams it's

not even close I think Caleb Williams is far and away more pure passer but he just needs someone to really reach him and say listen dude in this, in this league, things have to happen on time. It's the only way you succeed consistently. Well, connected to that, Jesse, is there any kind of lesson teams should take from Sam Darnold and what's happened this year where it's like he bounces around for a while and it's like, oh, man, he's 27 and now he's good? Like, I don't know.

Is there anything teams could take from that in terms of developing quarterbacks like Williams? I think they already know. And I think it's not just teams, but I think it's quarterbacks, too. It's just the situation and the timing is so critical and it's so important. And there are a lot of really talented young quarterbacks that get drafted to bad situations and they never get an opportunity to succeed. It's not like Sam Darnold, you knowold is all of a sudden just a much better player. He's always had talent. He's always had that.

But I think the situations that he's been in early in his career, the Jets moving around, it just hasn't afforded him that. But you go to a place like Minnesota, and all of a sudden, you're throwing to Jefferson, you're throwing to Addison, you have an outstanding play caller and your head coach, and it's a division that just everything sort of lines up for him. You know, that's the lesson to me. And I give Sam Darnold a ton of credit, too,

because there are a lot of young quarterbacks that go through what he went through and have the struggles he did, and they lose confidence. And they just, they're never able to rebound. But he was always, I think he's the guy that always believed in himself. And his story this year has just been remarkable. And it's a good lesson for other teams out there. I think that's why you oftentimes see teams willing to take chances and trade up.

Like Trey Lance is an example of that, right? There are teams that always believed he still had that magic and that ability and what they saw when he was coming out in college, and they're willing to try to give him an opportunity. Now, whether he gets that or not, you know, you don't know. And obviously what happened with J.J. McCarthy early in the season, nobody expected to happen. But good for Sam Darnold and good for the Vikings, you know, for pairing up the way they have. That's been one of the best stories in the league this year. With Jesse Palmer, I want to get you out of here on a college story,

a couple of them quickly. I know you cover it very closely for ESPN. Obviously, we had the Belichick news last week going to North Carolina, and it has become official, I think, this hour. Michael Vick is the new head coach at Norfolk State. So Mike Vick is the head coach at Norfolk State, Belichick at North Carolina. What do you make of these massive names in the NFL, Belichick in particular,

but Mike Vick, we know who he is and what he is and what he's done throughout his career. He's been an NFL analyst with Fox now for a number of years, and he's stepping in, no coaching history to my knowledge, and taking over a program in Norfolk State. What do you make of that news, and what's going on with college football right now? Yeah, I think these are obviously splash hires, and you and I are talking about them, right? In Canada, we're talking about it.

Right, exactly. So, I mean, it's obviously stretching far and wide. I think that's exactly the point on both of these hires. Obviously, with Belichick, that one's a little bit more obvious, obviously, with his success in the NFL. It's all about, you know, I think these programs, how do we bring in the best talent possible? Because at the end of the day, especially in college, the talent, it's not the

X's and O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's, right? It's who can you get in the door? And we're in an era of college football now where it's, I mean, it's becoming less and less about high school recruiting and developing. It's becoming just as much about the portal and NIL deals and it's free agency in college football. And, you know, Bill Belichick has his press conference and says, our school is going to be a pipeline to the NFL for the players that are good enough to play at the next level. I mean, bells and whistles are going off for high school kids and college players around the country that want to go play for a guy like that.

For Mike Vick, to me, that resembles a little bit more closely, I think, what we saw with Deion Sanders. And, you know, a guy that is just, you know, just galvanizes people and teams and talent just based on who he is, what he meant to that area. He grew up really close to North Polk State. He knows the state. He knows that area. He meant to that area. He grew up really close to North Polk State. He knows the state. He knows that area. And a guy that, you know, where Deion Sanders, you know,

he had high school coaching experience and all of a sudden found himself at Jackson State, but kids want to go play for him. And kids are going to want to go play for Mike Vick. You know, a lot of kids still know who he is. They remember watching him play growing up. They had his jersey poster on the wall. And so it's, you know, I don't know if Mike Vick can coach, and I don't know if he can call plays. I don't know if he will.

I don't know if he'll just delegate and bring in coordinators and do that. But if Mike Vick calls a kid to come in and play at Norfolk State, the kid is going to pick up. And the kid's going to probably want to come and visit and want to be a part of that. It's exciting. And so the fact that we're all talking about it, everyone's going to talk about Belichick,

but the fact that we're all now talking about Mike Vick and what he's doing there, there was news a few weeks ago that Ray Lewis was in consideration for being the head coach, I think at FAU it was. So it's like it's happening more and more and more. Ed Reed was in conversations, I remember, two years ago, to be a head coach, I think at FAU it was. So it's like it's happening more and more and more. Ed Reed was in conversations, I remember, two years ago to be a head coach as well. I think you're going to see more and more of that happen too. Yeah, pretty incredible.

And these are kind of fringe programs too, right? This isn't Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan we're talking about. This is even Colorado with Dion. They were never a perennial winning program. And look what he's done with them the last couple of years. It's pretty incredible. It's incredible. Think about it, right?

Dion at Jackson state got Travis Hunter to go to school there. And he just won the Heisman trophy. He got that guy to go to Jackson state. Yeah. It's crazy. It is crazy now, right? It is. It's amazing.

It is amazing. It's great catching up with you, Jesse. We appreciate you doing this, man. We'll do it again down the road. You got it, man. Appreciate you guys. You got it.

There's Jesse Palmer of ESPN and TSN NFL analyst, college analyst as well. Yeah, Travis Hunter just won the Heisman. That's the best way to put it. Deion got him to go to Jackson State and then follow him to Colorado.

And now he's going to go in the top five of the draft, top ten of the draft, just won a Heisman. Deion Sanders in Colorado, Bill Belichick in Carolina, Mike Vick in Norfolk State. Maybe Ray Lewis shows up somewhere. And all you have to do is be a rah-rah guy, and you have to recruit. Do you think Belichick will like that? The recruiting side of it? No, I don't think he will.

I'm not sure how involved he'll be until it's like closing the deal. He won't be there scouting high school kids. He won't be there for introductory meetings unless it's a five-star player. If it's a five-star player, especially within the state, I would think he'd show up.

He's your closer. I think he'd be your closer. He'd be the guy. Michael Lombardi's there working with him, who's an executive in the league forever. They'll come to Belichick and say, I would guess, this is a list of players we think we can get. They're available or they're in the portal. Can you make a

call? He'd make the call. Or they're coming in. We need you to go to dinner He'd make the call. Or they're coming in. We need you to go to dinner with the family or whatever. He'd do that. But he may still flip to the NFL. I know there's still a lot of people that are skeptical that this guy may flip, you know, in a month if he gets a job. You know what I mean?

Dallas calls? Yeah, exactly. Like, actually, you could take over the whole program. All right, I'm out of here. That wouldn't be shocking at all. All right, I'm out of here. That wouldn't be shocking at all. All right, Bobby Marks coming up. NBA Cup tonight. Raptors coming off a one-point loss to the Bulls last night.

No Scotty, no quickly. It's tough. It's tough for the Raptors right now. We get his take on that and the NBA Cup tonight. Spinning around the NBA. We'll get to our best bets brought to you by FanDuel later in the hour. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on the TSN app.

It's a brand new year. Time to review last year's financial decisions and set new priorities for 2025. Kelvin the Money Guy suggests the three-step approach. One, clearly define your goals for the new year. Two, create a plan tailored to your needs and ambitions. And three, make sure your portfolio is designed to serve that plan. Goal, plan, portfolio. Contact Kelvin the Money Guy and set your plans in motion.

Call 416-457-PLAN or visit askkelvin.ca. All right, best bets later in the hour. We get the NBA Cup tonight. Oklahoma City against Milwaukee OKC. To no one's surprise, it's been great this year. And they're leading the West. And Shea

Gildas-Alexander has been unreal. They're coming in here on a heater. Milwaukee had a really slow start, but they're coming together. This is a big game for the NBA. They've been building this up now. It's the second year. It's back in Vegas. To chat about it, we're joined now by ESPN's NBA front office insider. Here's

Bobby Marks. How you doing, Bobby? I'm good, guys. How we doing? We're doing well. Do you think, in terms of what the NBA would be hoping for, how does this matchup fit in terms of what they were looking for in the NBA Cup? Yeah, I mean, certainly, and it's two teams that we won't see on

Christmas Day here, so that won't be highlighted in a couple weeks here. I that won't be highlighted in a couple of weeks here. I think certainly listen at the end of the day, the passing of the torch, whether it be when LeBron or Steph Curry exits, whenever that's going to be, you know, guys like Shea Gildress Alexander will be the face of the,

one of the faces of the NBA. And I think to kind of be on a stage tonight, the only game on the calendar here against a Milwaukee team that's been really good, I think 12-3 in their last 15 here. Giannis is certainly an MVP candidate here. I do think this is probably, certainly you've got York or some of the, I guess, bigger markets, I guess, but certainly from a basketball standpoint,

I think this should be a really good game. Yeah, I think it's important. If this event is going to mean something in the future, the best teams have to play themselves into it, right? That's what you've got here. That's what you've got. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think, listen, we can pick apart the Cup. Should it be more games

than four? Should you have eight games and should we do it in January when football is winding down? I mean, we can pick apart it. And I think they'll probably look at how to evaluate it, but it does feel like the games do mean more when you see that, you know, like the different color quarter. And the guy, the beauty of it is that the players have treated this pretty,

this is not the all-star game, right? Like this is not like an up and down, you know, we saw some pretty high-level defense in both games on Saturday. So the discussion of who will take over as the face of the league, obviously LeBron's on that for a long time, like you said, Steph, I'd say Kevin Durant would be in that conversation. They're all in their mid to late 30s. The time will come, and it's probably going to come pretty soon

when the three of them are going to transition out of the league. Music to the ears of Canadians, the idea that Shea, Gilchrist, Alexander would be in contention for that. But again, he's in Oklahoma City. He's not in the biggest market, arguably the smallest market in the NBA. He's a Canadian guy. He's stylish, but he's soft-spoken. Like, Shea's not a big personality with the media,

but he's playing himself into that conversation. He's a legit MVP candidate the last couple of years. He's got a real shot at winning it this year. I know you just mentioned that, but make us believe up here that that could actually happen. Do you really believe that Shea could be a guy that could hold the torch for the NBA? I do, and I just think a couple things, and certainly when you look at MVP,

you take into account the team's success too, I guess. I think Westbrook was the only guy in the last 10 years to win it when they weren't a 50-win team. I just think the Oklahoma City team is built for sustainable success. There is no team better positioned to have a – and I know windows close awfully quick to ask Denver, but I do believe this window for them is going to be open for a long time just based on how they're built.

And with that comes with him being on center stage a lot more. Similar to – listen, when Jordan went through that period of the late 80s and they're trying to get through Detroit and they finally do, and then you get to six NBA finals. I'm not saying that could happen in Oklahoma City, but that's where you become the face is that your team is really good. You're on a lot of national TV games. You're on Christmas Day.

You get an MVP here and there. And I think it has the setup to potentially happen. Well, Bobby, you mentioned how well-positioned OKC is. I'm looking at all their picks, and it's just like, how do they have so many good picks? Do you think there's going to be a time where Sam Presti just goes, you know what, we're really good now, but we could use this? Or do you just think they just keep sitting on these picks

and just kind of go with it? Yeah, I think, you know, I wrote an article, I think, back in September. There's five teams that have 65 first-round picks over the next seven years. And certainly them and San Antonio and Brooklyn are probably the big three there. I just think how this system is set up with this new collective bargaining agreement where you value more the draft, you value more as far as keeping your players in-house. Eventually you're going to have to pay Chet Holmgren and Jalen Williams, and Shea is Supermax eligible this summer.

So it gets prohibitive as far as what you can do it, but you can keep those rosters together when you've got three first-round picks this upcoming June, including a potential Sixers pick that could be the seventh pick in the draft. And what happens is that eventually these guys become, you know, isaiah hartensine becomes a free agent in a couple years the seventh pick in the draft replaces him and you can basically keep on spinning the wheel look what they do with case and wallace i mean case and wallace to be able to pick him at i think 10 10 or 11 somewhere around there and now he's you know part of the core here and eventually case

and wallace will become expensive and it will be the 2029 denver pick if that becomes part of the rotation so i i do think there's a value i i always i teased sam about this last year at the deadline i called it the bank of sam presti because what happened is is that when teams are looking for draft picks they can say hey um it's basically taking that alone. And he can say, I'll give you this pick, but you give me two of yours in the future. And it's that. So they've got the flexibility to do that, and then they have the flexibility, as I said, like when things do get expensive, they can replace guys. With Bobby Marks.

So in terms of where the Raptors are at, I think they'd love to be in the position that Sam Presti and the Oklahoma City Thunder are in, clearly. I think a lot of teams in the league would, based on what you just described. But Masai Ujiri, he set the table for a difficult year. He called it a rebuild. You don't hear executives admit to that publicly very often, but he was willing to go there.

And that's exactly how it's played out. Yet injuries have been a big part of this, where Scotty Barnes, Emmanuel Quickly, I believe they played one full game together this year. So how difficult will this be for Masai if the injuries continue to pop up? And sure, it might lead to them being in the position they're in right now, where they're in the lottery, they get a real shot at maybe that top pick. But if you don't get to see Scottie and Quickly and R.J. Barrett play together,

how do you evaluate this season? Yeah. I mean, I think quickly is probably the most important. I think, I think you already have certainly a body work of RJ this year. And I think the last four years of Scotty, I think you need,

but I think, you know, certainly when you've traded for him, he's coming in as a six man, you get them, he starts. I think you, you gave him a five year,

a hundred, you know, six5 million, $40 million contract, big contract, and he hasn't played. And so that would be the biggest concern for me is how do I evaluate the guy I locked up to be my starting point guard in the future? The good thing is, and I've said this about Brooklyn before, the Schroeder trade is that with a new coach, and I know Darko's in the second year, at least there's a foundation where you kind of have a little bit of an

identity of how this roster wants to play. And if you go out and create agency or if you go out and trade, you can kind of plug and play guys. And if you make a trade, what you're kind of looking for. And I do think that's there. I mean, they compete like heck. I know they lost last night to Chicago. I think the biggest concern for me, and I saw it last night in Brooklyn

when they lost by like 40, is when you start to lose a little bit of your competitive desire and you basically let go of the rope. And that's probably the biggest thing they've got to guard. But, yeah, I think they need to get quickly out. He's got to get back. He's got to get healthy because that at least gives you, you know, listen, if he gets, I don't know when he'll be back, but it gives you 40 games.

You could see him and Barrett and him and Barnes and him and, you know, Purtle went out last night with an injury. But, yeah, that's the challenging part where it's more of the injuries and it's not guys, you know, they're in and out of the lineup as far as from a trade standpoint and their signing players. Well, Bobby, what do you think their young core would look like if they won the lottery and got Cooper flagged? Because I was watching last night,

and I was looking at all their young pieces. You had flagged that, and suddenly you kind of got something interesting. Yeah, I mean, Cooper, I think Dylan Harper, who's at Rutgers, who's going to probably contend for it, and Ace Bailey, who's at Rutgers, who's going to probably contend for it, and Ace Bailey, who's at Rutgers, too. I mean, this is setting itself up to be a really strong draft from top to bottom here. And when you add a player like that, I saw it was a year ago today, I drove up to Fort Myers down here in Florida and saw Cooper play in the City of Palms,

and this was when he was a senior at Mount Vernon. I think he was 16 at the time too. And I said this to a scout sitting next to me. I was like, this guy could play in a league right now. And I know there's been some up and downs at Duke and people, you know, say like, Hey, he scored like eight points against incarnate word or something. But man, I liked what I saw last year. I've liked what I've seen certainly in big games this year.

I know there's some turnovers down the stretch here, but I just think he's got a chance to be a franchise player. When you get a franchise-type player on a rookie contract and you have them for at least probably the next eight years, it just opens up the world of different opportunities that you have. that's what we're hoping for at this point like 7 and 20 bobby it's you know like again like i said and like you know and everyone knows messiah was expressing this idea that would be a difficult year yet when they were healthy like when scotty first returned and perdo was healthy like they ran off a few wins and it felt as if maybe the door would be open for them

to possibly chase that 10th seed in the East. I think that door is probably closed now. How would you suggest the Raptors handle things the rest of the way in terms of player personnel? Because as you know, the end of the year, teams that are tanking, they really show that they're tanking. If you have a hangnail, you're not playing, right? I said this, I texted Tim Bontemps last night,

who I work with at ESPN, and I said, Brooklyn has proven the theory that, hey, if you really want to go in the tank, just trade your point guard. That's kind of the way to do it here. And I totally get it where Brooklyn is, right? They're like, shoot, we can't keep on winning more games. We basically traded for our picks back in that Houston deal here. I always say, like, it usually takes care of itself,

whether it be injuries or whether it be a trade. I think, you know, you're not touching your core guys as far as in a deal here. So it's probably some of the guys that, you know, that are injured, whether it be Bruce Brown or Olenek, who Bruce hasn't played at all here. I just say, I always say, don't screw around with the lottery gods. I lived through it.

I lived through 12 and 70. Listen, we were 12 and 70 in New Jersey and 4 and 30 in January and all these different crazy stories that happened. We wound up getting the third pick in the draft. So I get it. You do want to bottom out. But I think how the odds are this year, or how they've been, you could be in that.

As long as you're in that one to seven spot, you've got as good of a chance as any of those teams. That's what we're aiming for up here. I mean, unfortunately, that's where we're at. NBA Cup tonight. It should be a fun one. Enjoy that, Bobby. We appreciate you doing this. I mean, unfortunately that's where we're at. Uh, NBA cup tonight. It should be a fun one. Enjoy that Bobby. We appreciate you doing this.

We'll do it again soon. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks guys. Thanks Bobby. Marks of ESPN. Yeah. I mean,

I keep hearing three or four guys, at least at the top that are like possible game changers. And it's interesting the way you, you phrase that Jonas, like you put Cooper flag on a team with Scotty Barnes, with a healthy quickly with RJ, who's been great this year. the way you phrase that, Jonas. You put Cooper Flagg on a team with Scottie Barnes, with Healthy Quickly, with RJ who's been great this year.

Grady Dick has really made improvements. That's like five. You've got something interesting. Those guys are all young, different skill sets. Among others, unsigned free agents that they've brought in, they've had a great history of doing that. Maybe you flip Purtle, get a pick.

I don't know. Open up some money possibly. Like Bruce Brown, they're going to move off of... What do you think of Bruce Brown's outfits? It's been outstanding, man. It's all country all the time. He's really committed to it. He loves the cowboy hat. He's got the cowboy boots going. I think it's a great look. I think you should do that for one show,

the three of you. The three of us should dress up like that? The thing is, what bruce is wearing it's probably like a 2500 outfit at least yeah you know like even when you look at it you're like oh that's kind of just like a standard fit standard fit the nba is like still gonna cost you a lot of money yeah but uh yeah i'm i'm curious to see what they do as they get close to the trade deadline, like who they're willing to move off. I think he makes a good point in terms of just allowing the lottery balls to fall the way they're going to fall. There's just only so much you can do.

If guys are hurt, they're not going to play. If they play and they win, they go 5-5 down the stretch, and they go from the fourth pick to maybe the sixth pick, so be it. I don't know why that makes me think of Tim Murray talking about when they got the second pick in the McDavid draft. Wasn't he very upset about it at the time? Yeah, he was furious. You're still getting, I know it's quite a drop-off,

but he was not happy, right? No. Well, think about that. McDavid could have been in Buffalo. And what are the Sabres if they get McDavid? Is it any different? Oh, that's a good question. Like, really, is it?

It probably would have been. There would have been players. He's so good. Presuming he would have been healthy. Eichel ran into health issues. Yeah. You know, Reinhardt's still there. Maybe O'Reilly's still there.

Weren't the Leafs like a lottery ball or two away from it? Yeah. I want to say it was a three or four lottery ball process. Yeah. And after the, let's say there's four that come out, after the third, they had the best odds of winning it. Well, and to his lottery god point, that 15-16 season, they tanked in the sense that

they purposely didn't have a great team and they traded guys. But the team played hard. They didn't... You know what I mean? They didn't just... It was a dignified tank. It was a dignified tank.

That's a good way to put it. It wasn't like they are blatantly... We're sitting James Vannery. We're going to play an East Coast Hockey League goalie to make sure we get smoked tonight. Yeah. Well, and think about that. Like that pivot point, you get the second pick,

and suddenly it's Lion-A. Yeah, you get Lion-A instead of Matthews. Everything's different. Everything's different. Everything is. All right, best bets brought to you by FanDuel. Still to come, Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on TSN 2.

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All right, today's best bets are powered by Fando. Make your picks and assemble a same-game parlay in seconds on the Fando Sportsbook app. Chris Middleton out tonight, so the line is actually moving. I'm going to take the points, Bucs, plus 5.5 tonight. You like Oklahoma City? I like Oklahoma City to see them win in this game. I just feel like it's such a unique game.

It's a neutral site. It'll be like a playoff game. Yeah, and I think Giannis is more comfortable in a situation like this. I think Giannis, I think Dame's going to have a big night. And Milwaukee's been playing really well. This thing is two teams that are playing well. It's a very unique environment. You give me five and a half, I'm going

to take the points. Taking the points tonight. Today's best bets powered by FanDuel. Live same game parlays are now available for every NBA, NHL game, whatever it is on the FanDuel Sportsbook app. Please play responsibly 19 plus physically located in Ontario. So we got that going

tonight. We've got a bunch of games in the NHL. Who do you think wins tonight? Buffalo or the Rangers? Or both? So Buffalo plays Montreal and the Rangers play Nashville. Who's really struggling. But it's in Nashville I believe. And in Montreal.

Rangers. Better team. Rangers win tonight. And then I wonder what happens in Buffalo. I know it's cool. Your owner comes in and says, yeah, nothing's going to happen. It's like you lose 11 in a row. Well, and you lose to Montreal, the only team behind you in the standings.

If Buffalo doesn't get this one tonight, I don't know what Lindy Ruff is going to say. I'm still out of answers. I don't know what to do. You had no answers the other night. You said a couple of days to find some. You lose again, and you still have no answers. But more questions, I'm not sure how you get out. It's a tough place.

It's a really tough spot to be in. All right, Jonas. Well, at least they have the Bills. Always got the Bills. Can't wait for the Bills to play again. It's more like get to the playoffs now. New England, New York, New England. They're probably out of the limelight for a while, Can't wait for the Bills to play again. Actually, it's more like get to the playoffs now. Yeah. Right? New England, New York, New England.

They're probably out of the limelight for a while, but they'll be waiting come playoff time. All right. Thanks to everyone behind the scenes for helping out. We appreciate it. Everyone for tuning in today. TV, radio, podcast, web. We appreciate that. We're out of here.

Enjoy your evenings. Enjoy the games tonight. We're back tomorrow at 4 p.m. We'll chat then. TSM Plus is taking game day to a whole new level with NFL Red Zone. Enjoy the games tonight. We're back tomorrow at 4 p.m. We'll chat then.