OverDrive - OverDrive - December 24, 2024 - Hour 2

Episode Date: December 24, 2024

Join Michael DiStefano and Dave Feschuk for Hour 2 on OverDrive! The guys discuss the ratings crisis in the NBA and got into another edition of Confirm or Deny. Mike Johnson joins the show to chat about Auston Matthews' injury management, Patrik Laine's 'unnecessary' comments and expectations for Canada at the World Juniors.

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The smarter way to book travel. Second hour of Overdrive off and running. I'm Mike DiStefano with Dave Festruck of the Toronto Star. Overdrive brought to you by FanDuel, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. We're talking about 10 to 4 o'clock hour we're talking about the declining ratings in the nba and how much this has really worried uh the nba and you know i i think with when you look toward tomorrow the christmas slate they have had a stranglehold on it for years

when you look at the sporting viewing calendar, unless football landed on a weekend, it was all NBA all the time. No longer the case. The NFL has come in and they said, nah, we want a piece of the pie. And they've got not one, but two NFL games tomorrow and some pretty marquee matchups as well. You've got Chiefs Steelers and you've got Baltimore and Houston, like two very, very very good games i would say but there's just been an overwhelming problem all year long with the nba so it's not just tomorrow or it's been an issue here when you look at the declining viewership dave and i'm just curious to get your thoughts on it as someone you know who's been in the industry and who's watched you know the game for a very long time and you've covered things and you've asked people in the know.

Oh, yeah. Why is viewership declining? What is the problem with the NBA right now? Well, every talk about ratings has to begin with ratings are different than they used to be because of the streaming services that are available because people look at games on their phones and on their computers and on different devices. And, and so that's an issue.

There's an issue of people just not watching games because they consume sports in a different way. A new generation of viewers doesn't view, you know, they, they talk about the NBA on social media. They, they follow the NBA on,

you know, the headlines on various websites and social media feeds but they don't really actually sit down and watch games like they used to that's that's not just the nba that's sports in general i think but then there's just the game right and i think part of it is to you know lebron's turn at 40 on monday steph curry is. And there's no heir apparent, really, to LeBron and Steph right now in this league in terms of fan appeal and interest. And then there's the three-point issue. And I think this is a real one.

You think? I think it is. They're just shooting too many three-pointers. To quote LeBron, they're shooting too many bleeping three-pointers. Is that like the lack of dunks? Like is that where you where like lack of splash plays and we're just seeing, oh, dribble down the court, three, miss,

make whatever happens, rebound, dribble down the court, three. Like we're just not seeing a lot of explosiveness in the NBA anymore like we did back in, you know, the Kobe, the Shaq, the Jordan era of the NBA. I've talked to multiple NBA executives about this like, and you know, you watch game, and then you talk to an executive

about what you just saw, and it's like, how many athletic plays did we actually see out there? How much wow factor did we see out there tonight? Wow factor is what made the NBA what it is. Wow factor made Michael Jordan into the biggest celebrity on the planet. Wow factor made LeBron what he is. Physical dominance. Doing things that nobody else can do with a basketball on a court

with the best players in the world trying to stop you. You're seeing less of that right now. The Celtics are shooting 50-plus three-pointers a game. More than, what is it, 56% of their field goal attempts are coming from behind the arc. Outrageous number. I mean, at the height of the splash brothers the warriors are shooting like something in the 30 percent yeah of their field goal attempts for coming from behind the line so it's been a quantum leap in the number of threes and it's about math al's brother

unfortunately like math ruined baseball now math is ruining basketball yeah math is is is definitely taking its toll on sports that's for sure the the the analytics is taking over a lot of different things it's creeping its way into the nhl too i mean johnny is going to be on in a couple of minutes big math guy so we'll probably get his take on it but you know there's the other side of the coin too that i think has has a big role in it and it maybe is more so for like the fair weather fan that they're losing. And that's the era of player empowerment. The fact that these guys just aren't willing to play every night. And I think it's just rubbing people the wrong way.

And it's just turning them off of the NBA. You never know who's going to play anymore. I think that's the big issue, right? Like back in the day, you knew if the Lakers are playing the Pistons, you're getting a good matchup right the stars were all gonna play now you just don't is lebron gonna play i don't know and beads on a back-to-back okay knock bob might as well not even bother watching because the beads not gonna play yeah right like you just have no idea who's gonna be out there on a night

and night and basis and i think that really has soured a lot of people on this league because that's not an issue in the NFL. And the NFL doesn't have viewership issues. The NFL has no problem getting people to turn on and watch the games. And that's a big difference between the NFL and the NBA. Now, I get it. Way less games. Way less games.

You play one game a week in the NFL. But you look at the Chiefs, they're about to play their third game in 10 days. And Patrick Mahomes has had every excuse in the book to not play one of these games. He didn't have to play last week. Coming off that ankle injury, Carson Wentz probably could have won that football game. He did not have to play. But they did

and he wanted to and he's going to go out there and he's going to play again tomorrow. Third game in 10 days. And it's not even a conversation. Not even a conversation. It's the complete opposite in the nba oh can't play indeed never going to play two two games back to back yeah outrageous yeah it's it's a it's a real problem i mean you look at the raptors you know that there's an injury epidemic that underlines the point you're making that you know makes it make some sense why teams don't want to play guys

and want to use load management to try and preserve the health of their players because the Raptors have been leading the Eastern Conference and man games lost to injury this year. Scotty Barnes has been out and quickly has been out. The future starts now was their slogan in the summertime when they gave those two guys $400 million in contracts, and so far they've played together for 15 minutes. See it quickly.

Hasn't not much of a future at all. Not much. And it's saying, and that's a problem in this league. Like it is hard to stay healthy in pro sports in general. The games have gotten faster. They're more athletic than ever. You ask more from the human body than you've ever asked from the human

body. And sometimes the human body can't give it back. Right. And we've seen that in, in real time in a lot of different sports. But, you know, it's a combination of things. But the NBA does have a problem, I agree with you, in that there is a perception that some of these guys would rather not play. I think Joel Embiid saying that he was done playing back-to-backs

to start off this season, that's a bad thing to say. You don't tell the customers that you just, you know, there's certain games on the schedule. I ain't showing up. That's just not good marketing. No, it's not. Let's bring MJ and get Johnny's thoughts on this one. Mike Johnson, our TSN hockey analyst.

Johnny, we're just talking about the declining numbers in the NBA specifically, and we were kind of having a discussion of whether or not it was, you know, which to you, I guess, has been a bigger hindrance for the lack of viewership, whether it's all pro sports. You look at baseball numbers are down too. Analytics or player empowerment, what do you think is kind of playing more

of a role of a deterrence for people? So I guess analytics seems like a, like, I understand NBA corner threes, too many threes. I get all that. But, you know, the advancement of the game, the strategy, because things make more sense, like, that seems like a good idea. And that's something that fans should get behind.

I think it's, and it's not even player empowerment. I mean, I think, where's the conversation? Okay, so if guys are physically incapable of playing the schedule that they're being asked to play, is there something wrong with the schedule? Are they being asked to play too many times four and five? Is that not feasible long-term on the health of their bodies? I wonder if that's it more than players empowered to say, hey, my body doesn't feel right or I've got to protect my knees, back, whatever, so I'm not going to play these games

with the blessing of the team. It doesn't seem like the teams are largely fighting this. They're like, yeah, back, whatever, so I'm not going to play these games with the blessing of the team. It doesn't seem like the teams are largely fighting this. They're like, yeah, okay, whatever. We just need you to be healthy for the playoffs. And I think that's a big message issue where the regular season doesn't really seem to matter because the participation of the best players is not symbolic of it mattering.

They just kind of pick and choose when they are healthy enough to go, when it makes sense for them to go, and then just worry about what happens in the playoffs. And the last thing is, like, I think the LeBron Golden State, can I just go to the last decade, let's say, before the last couple of years, before COVID.

And, like, that was a compelling theater. LeBron switching teams and Golden State a bit of a dynasty. And Steph Curry, certainly lots of threes, but not so much, you know, dominating the conversation and coming out of COVID. Like, well, like if you're a sports fan, you love Jokic, Jokic, but is he like captivating the non-sports fan? Shea Gills, Alexandra, is he captivating Oklahoma city?

Like they haven't sort of turned the page and found a new hook with the new generation of teams and players. Maybe it's the Knicks this year, but I think they're sort of caught up in, like, boy, it was really fun when it was LeBron and Golden State, and it's not as fun now because we don't know, we don't care about the best teams involved. Yeah, I think that's probably the issue. There's a lot of problems with why the NBA has kind of gone down the wayside. But things are looking pretty good in the NHL.

Things are looking good out on the ice. And the first little bit of the season is now done. We're at the Christmas holiday break, Johnny. And I want to get your thoughts. You look at the team, the Maple Leafs at the holiday break, and they're 21-12-2, which is a pretty good record. But I know as well as you do, because I know you look into the analytics, look at the holiday break and they're 21-12-2 which is a pretty good record but you know I know as well as you do because I know you look into the analytics look at the numbers overall like how do you feel the Leafs have played in the first 34 games of the season so you can't separate the

conversation but I think what you're trying to do is separate the goaltenders from the conversation which you can't really do. They're part of the team. They're part of the success. And they have been exceptional and incredibly good. So that's been, you know, A+++. As far as the team defensively, they're good. They're kind of a top 7-8 team defensively as far as high danger chances, you know, the stuff they give up in the slot, the rush chance against.

They've really made huge strides in that. Where I think the concern is is the balance between the defensive focus and the offensive creativity. They've struggled to find it. Even last week where they won a couple games, they didn't feel like they really were playing well. They maybe tilted too much back to the offense and the defense went by the wayside.

They're trying to find that right mix. And so much of that AB, I hate to put on one guy, but you give me a healthy, like completely healthy Austin Matthews, 100% healthy, and watch what he would do to a team that is structured with good goaltending and good players playing well. Willie's been amazing. Mitch has been amazing. JT's been amazing. Mitch has been amazing.

JT's been amazing. And put the best player, one of the top five players in the world on the team, and watch what their 5-on-5 offense looks like. I think that that alone would swing it largely in a big way. I mean, we talked about it a couple weeks ago. The decline in goals four per game by the Leafs is largely attributed to Austin Matthews' decline in his

individual goals per game. So that, I think, is the biggest question mark. I think the Leafs would generally be happy given what they faced, given the fact that Austin hasn't really been healthy. They'd be happy with where they're at. But the bigger question becomes, will he ever be healthy this year? I have no idea what the answer is. I mean, he took a lot of time off. He didn't get healthy. He went to Germany. He didn't get healthy. He took a cross check, which, albeit hard, would not usually knock a guy out of the lineup. It's just

part of playing hockey. He took some time off for it, understandably. If he can't get healthy, the outlook for this team in the postseason and a long, deep run changes drastically compared to if somehow he gets back to the way he was playing last year. Well, that's the curious thing to me, MJ, is the whole injury management here.

When you think about the fact that he spends most of the month of November out of the lineup, we find out he's gone off to Munich to seek the elusive fountain of youth that seems to reside in Munich, whatever it may be, some extract of some animal blood that we don't even want to know about. And I'm sure that the NHL would rather not know either. And yet he comes back for 11 games. He's got three goals in his first three games back.

Then he gets three goals in his next eight, and suddenly he's back out of the lineup, not looking anywhere near like the world-class player that we know he can be. Do you wonder why they brought him back? In retrospect, in hindsight, it's 2020, but do you wonder why they brought him back for those 11 games if he just wasn't going to be the guy that they need him to be? 100%, but I go further than that, Seth.

I mean, why would he start the season? If he was not healthy, why would he even bother playing and I wonder if the Leafs genuinely because their behavior suggests they did if they genuinely believed that he would be able to improve while playing like they knew that this was something that was bothering him since the summer

so if he came into camp and he wasn't quite right and you know it's his first year as the captain and new coach, I get why he would want to play, and I get why they would want him in the lineup. But I wonder if they just believed he'd be able to get healthy and he wasn't able to. And then when he came back from Germany,

they probably believed again he will be able to get healthy, and he wasn't able to. And so now, to me, it's, if I was running the Leafs, I would not without knowing what's wrong with them. I have no idea, but if it is something that is able to be healed with time, I don't know if I'd see Austin Matthews again into the playoffs. Like I wouldn't just like, just whatever you need three months, then take the three months.

Cause it's more important for you to get healthy than it is for the extra six or eight points you might give us over the course of the season. A little Mark Stone action? Is that what you're saying here, Johnny? A little Marky Stone? Think of all the money. Think of all the money. I haven't even thought about the $14 million you could go spend on someone else.

Absolutely. Think about loading up the Fords with that group if you were able to save the money. But I'm not going down the road, but I'm with you. If he's not healthy and he can't stay healthy while playing, then let him get healthy while not playing. And the only concern is if it's something, whatever it is, that won't get healthy by April.

I don't know, but given how long it's taken, it's sort of a question that you have to ask. Well, let's think a little bit positively moving forward here when it comes to the Maple Leafs, because although, yes, that's been a bit of a negative storyline throughout the last few couple of days here specifically, a really good storyline this season, I feel like it's been, I don't know, underappreciated, has been John Tavares in the season that he's been having. 17 goals, he's on pace for a point per game, 34-34. And, I mean, he's 34 years old. Like, how much is he really exceeding expectations for you

at this point on year seven of that deal? Well, that's just it, right? Because the conversation was sort of by everyone. He's amazing, he's amazing, he's amazing. Year six and seven, he probably won't be quite as good. And that was okay. You're willing to accept that risk. And here he is.

Last year, he wasn't as productive by his standards, the five-on-five specifically. But this year, he's been dynamite. I mean, if you can get 30 goals and somewhere north of 70 points from John Tavares while playing second-line center and on the power play, that is foul money. I don't care about the contract anymore.

That is absolutely wildly exceeding expectations for him and for the Leafs. So good on him. I mean, he is a professional. He is committed to trying to stay good and relevant, and he works on his skating, and he works on his stride. He works on his craft, and he works on his skating and he works on his stride like he works on his craft and he's been he's been great i mean that's that record he set yesterday that's the fifth guy in nhl history to score 200 goals with two different franchises gretz and mess and lanny

mcdonald and keith kachuk and jim devars is what 28 goals short of 500 like you start looking at his resume. He's not far off from being a Hall of Famer. He's not. If he plays four more years, let's say, and gets 200 more points, he's going to be up by 1,300. He's going to have close to 600 goals. Whether he wins the Cup or not, his international resume is loaded.

I don't know. Yeah, he's amazing. He's been a real positive story for them. There's been lots of positive stories. I think the challenge is maybe they're not as exciting. They don't look as good. They don't look as fun. And I think people see that like, well, maybe they're not quite as good because they don't dazzle you the same way.

They grind you in a different way. And grinding can be tiring, but it can be effective. It can be. And just really quick, I want to jump off your point about Tavares and the season that he's having. Playing the way that he is and under Craig Berube, it seems like a really good fit. How much longer do you think he's able to keep up this level of play?

Last year we were thinking, oh, this guy might have to go down to 3C, maybe move him out to the wing. But he's excelling right now with Berube. Can he do that moving forward? We talk about bringing this guy back on a contract potentially well how much longer can he be an effective player at you know this level maybe last year this year they tried new york again at camp at 2c right true that was because they wanted to borrow to go to three so you know it's something on the docket, but I think, and you make a very good point, and Craig Brubé's offense has gone from the Sheldon Keefe rush-based offense, which Tavares clearly excelled at, but skating is not his strongest suit.

What is his strong suit? Strength, edges, and heavy stick. And that is way more effective, relatively speaking, in a cycle-based offense. And so, yeah, I mean, I think the fact that Craig Brubay, and I've talked to Craig Brubay about this, and he's not quite making the Ryan O'Reilly comparison, but Ryan O'Reilly was amazing for Brubay in St. Louis. And could John Tavares, similar kind of skater, Ryan O'Reilly's not a good skater,

could he fill that kind of role as the team matures and goes hopefully deep in the playoffs? Yeah, I'm not expecting 80 points next year, but of course I wasn't expecting it this year, so he can prove me wrong again, but if he signs three years and $15 million, and he gets $70, $60, $55,

for $5 million, that is more than adequate for what you'd be asking for him, and I think that's quite reasonable that he'd be able to do that well mj we were just talking about you know the motivations of guys and and just the human nature of the contract year and taveras is obviously in a contract year um on top of that you know it's a year where he was asked to dispense with the letter c on his jersey and traded for an A. On top of that, as you point out, the narrative coming into camp was, hey, maybe he's not the number two center anymore.

Maybe we could find another number two center. On top of that, everybody in town is saying if he wants to sign, he's going to have to sign for pennies on the dollar. You add all that up with a proud athlete, MJ. You've been in locker rooms with many proud athletes, including yourself. That can weigh on a guy, and he seems to be pushing back in a very real way here. People are human, right? I understand Tavares made a lot of money in his career, but we're all human.

We don't like to be doubted. We don't like to be criticized. We don't like people telling us that we're not as good as we think we are. We don't like to be told we're getting too old, we're too slow, we're too whatever. We want to be who we think we are. And John Tavares clearly thinks that he is, and proving that he's an elite level player, no doubt it's motivation. Now, I don't know what it's like to be motivated with $100 million in earnings.

I don't know if he's worried about the dollars on his contract, more so just saying, hey, treat me right. I understand that I want to stay here. You understand I want to stay here, but I'm also really good. Yeah, it's out there. And talk about positives for the year. Hasn't that been another one? Tavares is out there.

Marner is out there. Even Matthew Nisen in extension is out there. And we haven't heard hardly anything about it. It's been really quite lovely. And I think for those players, it's been really quite lovely. They don't have to think about it, ask about it.

I'm sure they're thinking about it, but not talk about it. And I think that's a great way to do business for as long as you can. It'll come up eventually, especially towards the deadline. What do you do with Mitch? Mitch is having an incredibly good year. But so far it's been great that there hasn't been a topic of conversation.

Well, the numbers are speaking for themselves, MJ. Well, that's just it, right? And there's a great, quiet confidence you can carry yourself with if you're Marner or Nise or Tavares. Like, check us out. I don't have to politic or push or, you know, spin. Just look what I do. Look what I've done.

And that is going to get me the money I deserve. Look what I've done. That is going to get me the money I deserve. That's a great place for an athlete to be in, but it's also nice in a market that I thought might be pretty noisy this year about that kind of stuff. It has been pretty quiet. Speaking of pretty noisy, it's gotten noisy out in Vancouver, but did

that game last night from Petey, do you think that'll settle things over the Christmas break between him and the Patterson talk or him and Miller rather? Yeah. I mean, sure. Not one game,

but I think the point is made if they don't want people to talk about whether they like each other or whether they get along, then just go produce. If you produce that, it doesn't matter if you like each other because it's not impacting your play. The only reason why it becomes a conversation is the idea that whatever differences they have they're so big that it that it's affecting the way they play and that's when a conversation has to be had but maybe i was thinking

about it you but you guys have been around sports forever and we've all heard stories i've been on teams where players don't like each other and And that's normal. Like 25 different guys, 25 different sort of ways to live and beliefs and where they're like, you don't get along with everyone beautifully. And, and there's sometimes you don't get, you, you actually quite dislike people,

but it never bleeds into professional. Like I've never been on a team that I can think of where I can't play on the ice with that guy. Cause I don't like them. Like I've never seen it get to that point or my confidence is shot or I don't want to come to the rink. Cause I don't like him. I've never seen it get to that point. Or my confidence is shot or I don't want to come to the rink because I don't like him and he doesn't like me. And that's sort of what has been suggested.

It's gotten to at times in Vancouver. And not just in the last two weeks, but this has sort of been an ongoing couple year thing for these two guys. So yeah, you produce, you win, everything will quiet down. And then you can figure out whether you want to live your life with that person, whether you want to talk to the team about a trade because you're unhappy. But the public nature of it goes away if you produce. Speaking of guys that drive narrative, MJ,

what did you make of Patrick Lyonnet in the wake of— Unnecessary. Unnecessary. Yeah. Unnecessary. Right? Yeah. And nowary. Yeah. And now he's out. Yeah, right. And like,

we'll put a target on yourself. Like, Laine's story's been nice. I think the way that the city of Montreal has wrapped their arms around him and said, we got you. We're going to take care of you. We're going to support you.

We're going to make you feel at home. And we're just going to watch you go play. And I think, you know, part of his life and given what he's been through, that was an important thing for him. And so he probably should have, and I would have told him, like, just take the high road.

It didn't work here. We wish them well. I had some good years here and I've moved on to Montreal. I love it there. That's it. Don't need to say anything else. Or you can even say, like, yeah, I was tough. We did a lot of losing.

I think it's hard for everyone, and it affects everyone. You don't have to say, guys, whoever, you can figure it out. They were okay with losing. Because you're pointing a finger at a pretty prideful group of people that don't want to hear that. And, you know,

without getting too far down the line, they would say, look at yourself, man. Like, don't be pointing fingers at us. Look at your performance when you were here. Don't worry about how well we played. There's plenty to go around there. So unnecessary. It's been such a brilliant two weeks for Patrick Laine.

No need to have any sort of negativity. And the guys acknowledged. They went after him physically because of it. And so we'll see how hurt he is. But he didn't have to do this. It's been just such a great few weeks for him. No need for any of that. Johnny, are you up in Ottawa yet? Or are you traveling tomorrow?

I am going tomorrow to Ottawa. We get going on the 26th. It's funny, AB. It's a lot of work, a lot of work to get ready for the World Juniors. But once it starts, it flies by, and it is so much fun. And I'm looking forward to it. Ottawa is going to be sold out. Canadian team is pretty good. Probably not the favorite. I'd

probably say the Americans are the favorite, but the Canadians are probably right in behind them. But just to experience it back in Canada, Halifax was beyond incredible. But now Ottawa bigger rank, more people, 20,000 people, red and white the whole time. It's going to be great.

You think this Gavin McKenna kid is going to be as entertaining as he's been the last couple of games in the prelims? He's turning heads. If they let him, right? The biggest challenge is coaches being more. He can push his way onto the roster, though. Bedard did that. He already has.

Lots of players have. Right? I mean, he started game one, 13th forward. Game two, he was on the roster though. Like, Badar did that. He already has. Lots of players have. Right? I mean, he started game one, 13th forward. Game two, he was on the second line. Game three, he was on the second line.

They scored two, he got two goals and I don't think he's coming off that line. So he already has made inroads for Dave Cameron to kind of prove that

I'm maybe not, you know, and maybe it's the last minute of the game. I don't play with that lineup for winning. Like, you put a guy who's 19, who's rugged and tough and strong,

and maybe gets a puck out better than I do. But when it comes to making plays, as an offensive guy, I love watching him play. It is just magic with the puck. Every time he touches it, his ability. He's a lot like Patrick Kane, I'm telling you. Not lofty praise, but the way he handles it so smooth. Um,

the guy's 16, he's leading the WHL in scoring. He just turned 17, but he was 16 years old, leading the WHL in scoring 60 points in like 30 games. It's crazy what he can do. So I don't, yeah,

I think he will, he will be a good and important player. Now we can't be, we were spoiled by Bedard with what he did before his draft year. That's not feasible. That's not reasonable. But to think he might be one of the leading scorers on the team, that's not another question. Yeah, I'm excited.

I think he's going to be a fun team to watch. It's going to be a fun team to watch as a whole, though. Looks like there's a lot of young players to keep an eye on at the tournament. Johnny, appreciate it as always. Merry Christmas, pal. Can't wait to see you up on the tube on the 26th. All right, boys. Merry Christmas.

Happy holidays. Have a safe one, and we'll talk to you soon. Absolutely. There he goes. Mike Johnson, TSN hockey analyst. Yeah, that Gavin McKenna kid. I mean, I saw the highlights of the game they had last night. Like, the kid's just unbelievable.

You talk about him being a playmaker, and he is, and he can finish, too. Like, 60 points in 30 games in the dub for Medicine Hat. At that age. At 16 years old. Turned 20, like, two or three days ago. Incredibly, incredibly impressive. Yeah, he's going to be a fun talent.

Really, really fun talent to watch. All right, coming up on the other side. Oh, Johnny, by the way, join us on the Maple Toyota hotline. Build your next dream Toyota at Maple Toyota. Join us at the Maple Toyota pre-owned inventory arriving daily. It's time to Toyota. Visit mapletoyota.com. Confirm or deny.

Coming up next here on Overdrive. I can neither confirm or deny that this is in fact a segment. Austin trades Andrew Raycroft to Toronto in exchange for the rights to Tuca Rast. It's been my honor and a privilege to serve as the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs Hockey Club. It's time for Confirm or Deny. Do you regret giving all those gentlemen the no trades or no movement clauses? I can neither confirm or deny that. I can neither confirm or deny that.

I can't confirm or deny. All right, it's Tuesday, which means it's time for some confirm or deny. We know how it's played. We're going to make statements. If we agree, we confirm or we deny it. There's also a little Fergie option if you can neither confirm nor deny, but neither of us are gutless weasels like Timo and Wilson, and we will never, ever choose that option.

I had to get at least one jab, one jab into that group today. I knew you would. Yeah, it took me like an hour and a half to get into it, but at some point I knew I was going to throw in a little jab to the weasels, and I got it in there. Because Luke was riding you. He said that it was going to be a back little jab to the Weasels, and I got it in there. Because Luke was riding you. He said that it was going to be a backdoor cover last night, and you were crazy to take the pack.

Not even close. They didn't put up a point. Didn't put up a single point. And it wasn't close. They crossed the 50-yard line once in that game. There was no indication that they were going to put up a point. No, not even close to putting up any amount of offense. It was quite a brutal, pitiful performance.

Like, confirm or deny, Dave, impromptu, that was the worst offense we've seen all season. Well, the first shot out of the year, right? But, like, specifically, you look at the roster. Like, I don't think there's been a worse, you know, 12-man roster that has been on a football field at the same time than what we saw last night on New Orleans. I mean, it was just ugly.

And it's just sad that it had to happen on a Monday night at holiday season. Exactly. That's the thing. Everyone watching, everyone's home for the holidays. They're all at the neighborhood bars, and you're watching with your friends and family, and that's the garbage that you had to watch with the Saints put out there, that product. Pathetic. And it's funny because what kirk boris was talking about how the team

you know was so good out of the gate right they put up historic numbers through weeks one and two and then it just fell off a cliff an absolute 18 36 wheeler off a cliff here, Dave. Wild stuff for the Saints. Scary stuff. All right, next one. Kaitlyn Clark named AP's Women Athlete of the Year. Confirm or deny? Kaitlyn Clark is the biggest basketball star under 30. I will confirm it.

We were just talking about what's wrong with the NBA, what ails the NBA. Part of what ails the NBA is they're two biggest stars, LeBron James and Steph Curry, they're way above 30. LeBron's going to be 40 next week,

Steph's 36, KD's in his 30s. You think about the big names, the guys that draw the eyeballs and have massive followings, almost all those guys are past 30. Now, Wemby's 20, and he's going to be the next big thing, but I'm not sure he's going to have the appeal of a Kaitlyn Clark.

Kaitlyn Clark is massive. Why is that? You tell me why somebody captures the imagination of a fan base. I think there's a lot of different reasons. I think it's a little bit like the Steph Curry phenomena. It's like she seems approachable. She's not a super athlete. She's a regular-sized person.

She's likable, very likable. Yeah, I meant more so like why do you think Victor, because I think if you look at it, basketball stars under 30. So who's in the conversation? Caitlin Clark obviously is there. Anthony Edwards. Anthony Edwards, Ant-Man. You could put Luka Doncic in that conversation.

And Victor Wembynjama I think right now is obviously a big name. Anthony Edwards. Anthony Edwards, Ant-Man. You can put Luka Doncic in that conversation. Doncic is up there. And Victor Wembenyama, I think, right now is obviously a big name. He's young. St. Gilgis, Alexander. Right, Shea. And here in Canada, you would probably argue Shea's the biggest under 30 in Canada. But when it comes to the world basketball stage, not quite. Despite being in back-to-back years where he's in the MVP conversation.

Jokic didn't get brought up in here. Oh, I think Jokic is over 30 now at this point. He's getting there. Yeah, so he's a little over there. But, like, again, he was never a needle mover when it comes to, like, his name being talked about, right? So I think I'm going to – I'll confirm it as well. I do believe that Kaitlyn Clark just really captured a lot of people,

and she moves the needle. She moves the needle. And it's great for women's basketball and the WNBA, and hopefully the PWHL gets their Kaitlyn Clark at some point, and we can see women's hockey take off here. But to me, I agree with you. I think that you look at her and the season that she had, not only dating back to what she did in college, which was also also in 2024 keep in mind yeah what she did for a college season and

then parlayed that into you know a terrific year with the indiana fever um yeah i think by far if you think of whose name got brought up on espn more times i would think that caitlin clark's name has got to be up there amongst the best of the best when we're talking about basketball players worldwide. And the other great thing she's got going for her, A.B., is the WNBA. Players don't like each other. There's a lot of pushback on Kaitlyn Clark. There's a lot of people that resent Kaitlyn Clark.

That's good. Drives a great narrative. It's a great storyline. The fact that all the old school WNBA players are really resenting this new schooler walking in and taking the limelight only makes it a better storyline. Yeah, I agree. So we're both confirming. Kaitlin Clark, biggest basketball star under 30 years of age.

All right, next one. Austin Matthews will sit out the Four Nations face-off. Confirm or deny? You're saying will or should? Will, not should. Will sit out. Well, I'm going to deny it if it's will. I'm going to confirm it if it should.

Okay? Because I just love the brainwave that MJ just gave us of, let's just sit this guy out to the playoffs like what are we doing here he sat out the month of November or most of it came back for 11 games wasn't feeling it so why are we playing around here with trips to Munich and day-to-day turns into week-to-week turns into most of a month if this guy can get better with time, as NJ pointed out, why doesn't he just take time from January 1 or whatever it is until April 15th or whatever the regular season's over, free up that $13.25 million in cap space to load up the team.

Go on a shopping spree. Go on a shopping spree. Austin can head off to munich oh boy for more treatment quote unquote and uh forget the four nations cup man this is about the stanley cup in the pursuit thereof um i'm going to confirm that he will sit though like we're both in agreement he should but whether or not he will is a different story. But I'm going to confirm it. I think ultimately, I believe he understands that his health is at the utmost importance at this point. And if he's not feeling 100%, which he hasn't since the start of the season,

it's already been three months, and he's still feeling this nagging injury, and all it took was one vicious cross-check to really get him back into feeling poor enough to be sitting out and re-aggravate that injury. You don't think they're going to be doing that in a best-on-best tournament? I think they absolutely will try to do that. Some of the biggest and best players on the planet. So for me, I just think that it's just something that Austin Matthews absolutely should think to himself. What's the betterment? What's better for me? What's better for my team and what I want to accomplish? Does he want to be a gold medalist at better for my team and what I want to accomplish?

Does he want to be a gold medalist at the Four Nations champion, or does he want to be a Stanley Cup champion? And the best way to do that, in my opinion, is if he sits out and he takes the time to rest. Now, again, we don't really know the extent of the injury. He could be 100% by February. And if that's the case, okay, I suppose he could go and play. But based on what we've seen over the last three months where it has not healed,

why would it all of a sudden get healed after being re-aggravated all of a sudden in the next six weeks? I don't think it's likely. Therefore, he should not play. And I think he will understand that. I think there will be pressure from the organization, from the team, and from himself probably to sit out and get better so he can get back to being the best goal scorer on the planet and help this team win games.

Look, if sitting out most of a month didn't make it better, that tells me, not a doctor, just as somebody with basic logic, that he's going to need to sit out more than a month for it to get better. And that's going to gobble up the Four Nations Cup and maybe more. And I would think too, like now he's got the C on his chest, maybe he does hold a little bit more responsibility to the team than to himself when it comes to choosing Leafs or Team USA.

He's wearing the C for the Maple Leafs now. I think that should come into play as well when you think about it. Alright, another one. Confirm or deny, Aaron Rodgers will have a robust market if he leaves the Jets this offseason? I think he will.

I'm going to confirm it. I mean, this is a league where there's always somebody looking for a quarterback in this league. And, look, I know Aaron Rodgers comes with noise. He comes with baggage. He comes with ancillary activities going on the Pat McAfee show, trolling NFL owners as he did this week with Woody Johnson talking about the possibility of being released by a teenager

in reference to the Jets owners' teenage sons who apparently are very instrumental in the operation of the Jets. But look, for all of that, A.B., he's shown flashes that at age 40, he can still sling it, man. And with a good line, a decent defense, I'm not saying he's anywhere near the conversation of a Mahomes or an Allen or a Lamar. He's not in that league anymore.

He's not an MVP caliber quarterback. But you can't tell me he's not a mid-pack NFL quarterback. And that's good enough to get plenty of interest if he's a free agent. Yeah, I'm going to confirm it too. I think there would be a – well, robust is a bit of a loose term, I suppose. But there will be multiple teams that I think would have interest. And we kind of alluded to it earlier. Like if you're the Cleveland Browns – now, cap-wise, I think it makes it difficult because if you cut Deshaun Watson, I mean, it's something like $170 million cap hit.

I don't think you can even cut him. You just have to say, don't show up. We'll pay you, just don't show up. And maybe they'll find a way to get this guy paid and bring him in under contract. But I think there are a couple teams out there who have a decent setup but don't have the quarterback to get it done. If Cleveland Browns be at the top of the list, or contract, but I think there are a couple teams out there who have a decent setup, but don't have the quarterback to get it done. Cleveland Browns be at the top of the list.

Another interesting team, maybe even like the San Francisco 49ers, right? Now, they have a decision to make on Brock Purdy this summer. They got to either pay him or move on and get somebody else. And after a season in which, you know, it didn't go well for them, who knows what the quarter, what the coach's future is going to be there and do they want to get this guy paid. There's been interest in the past in Aaron Rodgers. He's a California guy.

He's a California guy. So I think there will be a couple of teams that could have interest in this kid. There's a lot of teams looking for quarterback. Wouldn't it also be just the most Aaron Rodgers thing if this guy says goodbye new york jets hello new york giants wow like that would be a middle finger to woody johnson and company wouldn't it wouldn't it and it would be so on brand for mr rogers it would be it really really would be but uh i would imagine like if i had to put a a Jerry's percentage on it of him playing next season,

I don't think it's going to be with the Jets, but I do think that he will play. I'd probably say 74% odds of him playing next year. Oh, I'm going to give it 100. He's playing, man. I don't know if I'd go 100. He's basically daring the Jets to cut him so he can go somewhere else.

He's not stupid. We know that about Aaron. He's not stupid. He knows there about Aaron. He's not stupid. He knows there's other teams that would take him. I mean, he's not, he knows nobody goes into these situations not knowing where they might land. He's not going to prod the owner

and a very powerful billionaire publicly to let him go. Well, unless he's done with the NFL. Unless he's done with the NFL, which I think is a possibility. I think it's a possibility. No, it's always, look, eventually he will's done with the NFL, which I think is a possibility. I think it's a possibility. Look, eventually he will be done with the NFL, but it doesn't feel like it's now.

His last three games have been great. I get that. He came off an MVP-level performance a couple of years ago with the Green Bay Packers, literally won the MVP, and then said, I don't know if I'm going to play this year. Went in a dark hole and then decided I'm coming out and I'm going to play for the New York Jets. Whether or not he actually contemplated not playing. That was just garden variety attention seeking.

And I'm sure it was. What he does on a daily basis. 100% he does, which is probably why he will end up playing next year. Maybe 74 is a little low. I don't think it's 100% though. I have a small chance that he decides, I don't want to deal with this nonsense. I'm done.

My body's beaten up. He's got this knee injury now, along with the Achilles. He's 40. Plenty of money. He could just move on and do whatever the heck he wants to do. Go on Pat McAfee every week and just talk NFL. Talk about how quarterbacks aren't as good as they used to be. Exactly.

And then not be out there to be the better quarterback or usher in the future of what the quarterback position will be. You're right. But he's playing. If he does, I think there will be teams that will be lined up to bring him in. All right, do we got time for one more? One more here? All right, final one. Vladdy Guerrero Jr. will get over $500 million on his next contract.

I'm going to have to confirm that. Really? $500 million? his next contract i'm gonna have to confirm that really 500 million dollars well look i mean it seems crazy because it's just it's a crazy number it's that's half a billion i was brother fact yes statistically correct yes and but look we just saw a 26 yearyear-old slugger signed for $764 million, right, with, what, escalators that are going to take that deal up to $800. And that's reset the market. And so, you know, as part of the market, it probably makes sense. I'm sure you can make a statistical case,

and I'm sure it's being made at this very moment by Vladdy's representatives that he's worth every penny of $500 and probably a little bit more if you want to push the envelope. So career-wise, Juan Soto's wins above replacement, 36.4. Okay. Vladdy, 21.5. So he's two-thirds the player. Two-thirds the player, so what's two-thirds of the cost?

I guess that'd be roughly... In the $500 range... I don't think... The only way that happens is if he leaves Toronto. I don't think the Blue Jays are willing to go to $500 million for him. I do not think that's the case. So if his contract's going to be $500 plus, it's going to

be elsewhere. I'm going to deny it, though, because I think that's just so much money. That is so much money. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. is coming off a great season but of the what six years that he's played in the big leagues really only two of them have been all-star caliber and then the others have been good but not great you're gonna pay that guy 500 million when two-thirds of the seasons that he's played have been good, not great? Yeah.

I can't get behind that. I don't think I can, which is why I want the Blue Jays to sign this guy because I think that he is the future of the Blue Jays, and it can allow the scene to move forward. But if he's sitting there saying, I'm only coming if you put 500 sheets in my bank account, I can at least see why the Blue Jays and Shapiro and Atkins are a little bit

slow rolling this thing at that price. It's the cost of doing business in baseball today. It's a lot. It's a lot to pay. What's the money mean to you? It's a first baseman too. Juan Soto plays the outfield. You make a good point. There's all kinds

of reasons why I would not want to spend that money if it was mine. $700 million for Soto plays the outfield. Yeah, no, you make a good point. Look, there's all kinds of reasons why I would not want to spend that money if it was mine. I mean, I think $700 million for Soto was a crazy number. Well, yeah, but it's changed the market. But it's happened. You're right. It has. It has.

Is it right? Is it worth it is another conversation. But the point is, the market is where it is. And, look, I guess we will see. I mean, clearly, if the Blue Jays had wanted to sign Vlade long-term, they had many, many chances to sign Vlade long-term. Yeah. At a much cheaper number than what it's going to cost them now.

It tells you something that they haven't done in all these years. Yeah. So I agree with you. I don't think they're destined to be together long-term here unless someone above Shapiro and Atkins steps in and says, no, no, we need this guy. He's our most important asset. He's our most popular player.

We cannot have him walk. I would not say that's... You wouldn't rule that out? You wouldn't rule it out? Well, they just spent how much money on renovating that building? You don't want it to be empty. True. If Vladdy walks out the door.

Yeah, and they've been willing to shell out money the last couple of years. I guess you could try and keep your own if no one else wants to come. On the other hand, you were a last place team with Vladdy playing great. You could be a last place team without him. Good point. And save a lot of money. Yes.

A lot of money doing that. All right. Coming up next, FanDuel Best Bets to round out the show. You listen to Overdrive on TSN 1050 and on TSN 4. Today's Best Bets are powered by FanDuel. Make your picks and assemble a same-game parlay in seconds on the FanDuel Sportsbook app. I'm looking at tomorrow's Christmas slate in the football game. The first game, I like the Chiefs and Steelers one to go under the total of 43.5.

I think it'll be a low-scoring game. It's a short week for both sides. Two good defenses. It'll be cold week for both sides. Two good defenses. It'll be cold in Pittsburgh. They always play good and gritty at home. I think under 43 and a half in that one. And I'll look at a couple of the games over in the NBA. I like the Mavs on the money line over the T-Wolves. I think the Dubs

get a dub over LeBron and the Lakers as well. Take them on the money line. You can parlay those three together. It pays plus $3.68. Today's best bets powered by FanDuel. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today and find thousands of ways to play. Please play responsibly. 19 plus if physically located

in Ontario. Good show, Dave. Lots of fun. Shopping's done. We're ready to go for Christmas tomorrow. Should be great. Can't wait. Merry Christmas to you. To all. And thanks to go for Christmas tomorrow. Should be great. Can't wait. Can't wait. Merry Christmas to you, to all, and thanks to everyone behind the glass. It's been a blast.

You and I will be back on Friday at 4 p.m. We'll chat then. TSM Plus is taking game day to a whole new level with NFL Red Zone. Absolutely incredible. Subscribe now for every touchdown from every game, every Sunday afternoon. NFL Red Zone. Available on TSM+.