OverDrive - OverDrive - February 6, 2025 - Hour 1

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Join Bryan Hayes, Jeff O'Neill and Frank Corrado for Hour 1 on OverDrive! The guys discuss the Raptors' trade deadline deals, acquiring Brandon Ingram to bolster the team, Jimmy Butler's trade to the Warriors and Mitch Marner and Anthony Stolarz's return to the team. TSN Raptors Reporter Josh Lewenberg joins to discuss the Raptors' trade deadline outlook, the addition of Brandon Ingram and the direction of the team and Sidney Crosby and Quinn Hughes' status for the 4 Nations Face-Off tournament.

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For details visit McAlpineLincoln.com. This Hour of Overdrive is powered by FanDuel. FanDuel, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. Alright, here we go Overdrive off and running. TSN 1050 on the TSN app, your home smart speaker. And up on TSN to this afternoon Brian Hazy a dog Jeff O'Neill Frankie Corrado in here Looking good feeling good pro athletes salute

I'm just gonna say it's nice to be alongside another pro athlete same mentality same approach Same diligent work ethic Frankie Chesco, nice to see you. What's up, brother? Are we a... ACB, I think we gotta do something. I don't know what's going on, but we gotta do something today on our show to jack up the Super Bowl.

I kind of feel, and obviously we want everybody to watch the Super Bowl on CTV, but it just, like, maybe you were right, man. Maybe they needed some fresh blood in there to kick it out, like. It's very, very stale. It's very stale. Kansas City, Philly, New Orleans.

You know. Like what's being bandied about? Like, oh, maybe Sycon gets a couple of TDs. Nothing, man. When the third question mark, it's like. Nothing. There's nothing. We gotta get it going. Yeah, there's nothing because like the this is the amazing thing about my homes and it speaks to his greatness

That the Mahomes goat chat is already stale, right? It's all like everyone's got a different view on that and it's going to continue for a long time, but he's 29 years old He's been in the league for what seven years six seven years So I on a sec. So if he gets a third one, he's already the goat Well, even if he doesn't have seven like Brady, no, I'm not willing to establish that but I do think that'll be a conversation For after the game. I'm just saying like the build-up. It's like they won 15 and 2 They did it again against the Bills and in the playoffs. They're back in the Super Bowl their favorite again It's easy to picture them winning. It's crazy. Let me put you on the spot here, if they go the three

Pete are they the greatest dynasty in NFL history? They'd have to be, they'd probably have to be in that conversation. Don't you think that's a conversation worth having? Yeah, the Pats won all those but they didn't do three in a row. Right. Like this is something they never did. Maybe that's something worth talking about. Yeah and like historians might say the the Steelers or the 70s who won I think they won four and they went four in like five years or something like that and I think again though it's very focused to like Kansas City or New England, Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady. Like it's very very focused and that's kind of the whole week. And I think maybe what the NFL needs is a jab here in for Philly

to win this game and something crazy to happen. Like, wouldn't that be the most shocking outcome is, is Philly wins and they shocks the world, but in, in like dominant fashion, 38 to 14. And it's not even a ball game. Kind of like Luke's Luke's first Super Bowl in Seattle when they played Denver and remember there was a safety on the first drive I think they won 38 nothing or something like that it was crazy they just dismantled Peyton I think that's the only way the Eagles win because if it's close I just don't trust that Andy Reed and Patrick Mahomes are gonna blow the big moment yeah what I mean like it almost has to be a blowout it's close those guys just don't trust that Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes are going to blow the big moment.

You know what I mean? It almost has to be a blowout. If it's close, those guys are going to find a way to close it out. Well, I think that maybe that's pointing to what we're saying here, is that it just seems like such an obvious answer that Kansas City is going to win or find a way to win.

And if you go into a movie and you know the ending, are you really jacked to see the movie? I don't know. I mean and I guess that that gets back to what I was saying in the past and oh you can't turn on me now you were calling me a fraud yesterday. You want to see greatness. You want to see dynasties. You want to see Kansas City win for the next decade straight. I know but you're just, you're the comment itself it's like a lot of times Tiger Woods in the final group of a major, did you know he was going to win? Yes.

Did you watch? Yes. With excitement. I'll be watching. Did you love it? Yes. So what's the difference? I was, there's something about my homes and I don't know what it is.

I was like this, like I had Brady on the same pedestal, like super fan wise as Tiger Woods. I'd be like, man, Tom Brady, I can't wait to watch the Pats. And I was like a, although I couldn't call myself a super fan because I'm sleeping no matter what. I don't really care that much. I'm not wearing the gear. I'm not barbecuing in my backyard with other Pats fans.

But I love watching Tom Brady. I was a fan of his. He went to Tampa Bay. I'm like, let's pick up another one down there, Tommy. I thought of him as my best friend. That's how stupid I was. With the Chiefs, I'm interested because I'm like, this guy just never loses. I'm interested in that mystique, the guy that never loses.

He always gets it done. I find it fascinating, but maybe everybody doesn't. Well, I do think there's a Tom Brady element to it that we just didn't have a chance to breathe before this guy arrived. Tiger Woods didn't show up in 1987 and say, thank you, Jack, you put that green jacket on me. Now watch me.

Yeah, we had to wait a decade. Like there was no time to breathe. It was just Brady, Brady, Brady, Pats, Pats, Pats, and now immediately Mahomes, Mahomes, Mahomes. And like the NFL gets credit for being this team of, of parody and it's the complete opposite. Like there's been two quarterbacks in two teams that have dominated for 25 years. I wouldn't call it parody, man. There's no parody.

The bad teams are the bad teams every single year, it seems like. Buffalo has turned the corner, why? They got Josh Allen. Yeah. Like you get this one superstar that can change the complexion of your group, now you got something.

But it's, even if Mahomes and the Chiefs lose this week, next year, they will probably win. You know what I'm saying? Like there's no'm saying like this bill like we are so sick of losing yeah that we have got to get back on though even if they win this one patrick homes is going to say after the game i'm dying to get for a row it's true that thing but i can't sleep at night until i get for a little here whole leagues like is this guy's say he is here's a is a freak like Another crazy thing about the Pats,

they went 10 years between Super Bowls, right? This guy can go three-peat, take two years off, and get back there and do another couple. And at that point, we're talking about the greatest dynasty hands down, ever. Absolutely. But you gotta figure, Kelsey's gonna disappear, Reid's gonna disappear, Spags is gonna disappear it's gonna kind of evolve and be different

that's going to be where you really start discussing and comparing and contrasting him and Brady you know is you can't fast-forward the guy's life in his career like there's nothing you can do but at some point and Brady had the luxury of having Belichick with him the whole time I don't know if Andy Reid's gonna coach another decade like he I don't know if he will he's a he's not a young guy He's been around for a long time He may he probably won't so what does my homes look like with a new coach and a new set of weapons because Brady went Through it like three or four different times. Oh yeah, he had Randy Moss, he had...

Yeah, I mean in the early years, Moss wasn't even there. And then Moss showed up and he didn't win with Moss. Like he lost the Super Bowls with Moss. And then all of a sudden it was Gronk showed up and... Amandola, Edelman. Exactly, Edelman showed up. Those were the guys he was doing it with those last couple of years. They weren't spending big money on big namewide

receivers when it was all said and done. No. It was those guys. That's the amazing thing. The best weapon he had was Randy Moss. He did not win a Super Bowl with him. That's crazy. That's the guy that... Him and Moss in 07 was absurd.

I hated that Danny Amendola too. I was like, that guy is always hurt. He's a wussy. He's a loser. Why does New England want that guy? Brady turned that guy into a killer? Yeah Well, that's the beauty of it right like the best teams the best players the best cultures That's what we're talking about yesterday with the Sabres like reverse the reverse of the Sabres is that's sucking the the life out of that guy get him out of there get him somewhere else and he's gonna flourish and

You know, that's, that's what's happening throughout every league. Look at the NBA today. There's a million different trades going on. The Raptors have been, the Raptors are buyers. Raptors are buyer eyes. What are they doing? Like all of a sudden what? They're not like tanking this year. It's like, why? I know they want to tank this year but why would they even be tempted well here's my my thought on this is that miss if Messiah's jury is going to run the operation he was never ever going to

commit to a scorched earth we are the laughing stock of sports which could extend upwards of three four five years and you hope you come out of it with an accumulation of all these young players and all these picks in the futures and all these pick swaps that then you can really start to manufacture what you want to do and trade things and bring in superstars and maybe you drafted your own superstar. Masai doesn't have the stomach for it. Like he said at the start of this year, they're in the rebuilding process.

He's never going to say we're tanking. And no one can or will or they'd get fined. Like Adam Silver would not allow an executive to come out and say we're admittedly tanking. But I think Masai just doesn't have the patience for it. And he wants to expedite the process. And the question is, what is the goal? Like is the goal to be competitive again or is it to win a championship? Because you can be competitive with the acquisition

of Jakob Pertl and Brandon Ingram if he's healthy and playing. You're a better team. Ingram's a guy that's a lot of fun to watch. He's a pure scorer, but he's hurt a lot. He's never been in a winning situation. He doesn't defend great. Like there's ups and downs to him, and you have to pay him immediately.

It's a lot like quickly last year they're gonna acquire them and then immediately pay him and not even know if he fits as quickly even play well quickly quickly's hurt all the time he's played like 12 games this year yeah and and that's the thing like I think anyone that tracks the NBA or is a fan of the NBA you've had to adjust the way you view every player because everyone's hurt all the time and they're load management more than ever than ever and they're still hurt I wonder if there's a fear factor with Messiah and you had you know, like that's one way of spinning it I wonder if it's like if you run an operation like the Raptors where you know in a way

It's it's almost like the Blue Jays where you try and go after free agents. You want to throw some money around It's just hard to recruit those guys. But if certain things fall in your lap, you almost say, screw the timing. Like, I just gotta do this now, or I don't know when this opportunity is gonna come up for me again, so we'll figure out the rest afterwards,

because I just can't pass this on. I think that's probably what's happened here too. You do, like, Messiah's not stupid. He knows you're just not going to sign the biggest free agents to come up here and you're not going to get the veteran guys to commit to coming here either. You know what I mean? Like, Jimmy Butler's, they're just going to say, don't even trade for me because I'm not going to show up. Like, that's the way the NBA works now. The players have the power to be like, don't do it because I won't show

up or I'm not going to sign with you. with you here what clearly has happened is they've acquired ingram and it sure sounds like they've worked with his wraps and he's gonna sign an extension so they've got a guy and he's twenty seven he's uber talented he's a piece of again a blast to watch play when he plays and i think that may have been it that he like he's not looking at this linear timeline that he's trying to accumulate as much time as he can which possible way he can. Which you can't blame anybody for. Exactly. Yeah. And

that's what they're doing here. Yeah. That's what he's trying to do and whether it's gonna work or not I'm not I'm not convinced of will I'm not sure Messiah believes it's going to work in terms of them competing for a championship down the road but are they gonna be better more fun to watch back into a play-in or maybe a playoff team yeah that's possible next year i'm not sure like the raptors if we ever go into a season saying the raptors are absolutely a championship contender i'm not sure that's in the cards for a long time it's just it's one of those things like how are you going to build a team you know with

all the restrictions or all the the roadblocks that we just talked about you're always going to be known as they're competitive they're just always going to be known as their competitive. They're just never going to be that runaway team. No, and yet, you know, Messiah, when he got here, he took over a competitive team. And then, you know, you had Lowry, you had DeRozan, you had a couple of other pieces. Valentunis was here, he had a good coach. And they did great work finding the Siakams and the Van Vleets and they had Norman Powell and then all of a sudden you get Serge Ibaka

and it put you in a position where you could strike and you got Kawhi and then you got Gasol at the deadline and you win and I think he's probably thinking I gotta put myself in the same spot. Accumulate a good team with some good pieces, keep growing through either the draft or college free agents, whatever, build your system up and hope within the next three years you're in a window where

it's like that guy's available, we have the pieces, we're going to grab it and we're just going to take another kick at it. And that's it. And that's all you can ask for. And that's the thing, it'll have a quick expiration date and you got to strike while the iron's hot. And that's... Everything's a quick expiration date.

I guess the one thing we can take from the last month whether it be the Colorado Avalanche or Jimmy Butler or Phoenix wanting to move off of KD or Jimmy Butler going to like there's no loyalty in pro sports like can we just come to that conclusion man Miles Garrett and Cleveland it's like the team either wants to gas a guy or a player wants the hell out of somewhere, man. And it's everywhere and a lot of it doesn't become public. There is zero loyalty. If a team sucks, a player's like out of here and if an organization doesn't want a guy, they're getting you the hell out of there. Like that's just the way it is. And if you don't think

that's the way it is, it's, there's no other way to look at it. There is zero loyalty in pro sports. It is a business and that applies to both parties, man. Oh yeah. Think about how happy the Miami Heat was with Jimmy Butler a couple of years ago when they're marching the playoffs. It was like, Jimmy Butler, coffee, yeah, coffee place in Miami. This guy's the, he's the cat's meow. Now it's like we can't stand the sight of this

guy's face right and and not only that like Jimmy wins in the end because he gets to go to Golden State they immediately give him a hundred and twenty million dollars no kidding like why the hell do they think they need to get do they actually think and that's another thing that drives me nuts Hayes like where Steph Curry's at now the Smash Smash Brothers aren't alive, like, Draymond's seems like he's a hundred years old. Do they think bringing Jimmy Butler out there, like, they're barely sniffing around him. It's desperate, man.

Yeah, it is. So, like, is it the only way out of that for that organization to go to Steph and say, do you not want out of here, and maybe that's the only way we can turn this around with picks or whatever? That's what it is, man's them it's them saying Steph thank you for everything you want us all those titles that dynasty we got a new Jimmy Butler yeah we're gonna try to keep it alive man and and that's that's ultimately what it is and listen it it happens in sports on both on both sides like it the majority of it is losing you reference Miles Garrett you reference

or money related but even like why is a great example quite came up here won a championship in life tyree kill one a super bowl was playing with my homes and said i want out is a little somewhere else and i want to get my key i thought kc were the ones that said you were regard now i think it was a combination i think it was ty reek was kinda like you better pay me

or we're gonna have a problem Then after that they probably said see you later. Absolutely and they made the right choice Yes, they've gone to three Super Bowls without them, you know, but like Tyreek he could have got paid You know may not been a bit it may not have been exactly what he wanted But I'm sure they could have made that work But there's no rhyme or reason for why a team or a player, but generally it's steeped in It's competition. It's business every dollar counts. You're all trying to win and in the end There's only one winner dude. I think there's one winner in every league and there's a lot of teams, man

I wouldn't Discount the coach in golden state in a lot of that looking at san antonio and popovic and saying I don't want to be that. Like he's got Wemby, and that's gonna be a, that'll be a big shift in how that organization operates. Are you kidding me? Pop's the horniest guy in the NBA right now. No, I get- Steve Kerr's like,

I'm gonna go down in flames with this operation. But he's had, like he had all the years of that team being terrible, from the time they were good to when they got Wemby, now they got Wemby, and yes, he's all horned up for sure I think Steve Kerr looks at that and says I just want to kick this can down the road as long as possible Because I don't know what is that window five six years until you really bought him out and you can grab a Wemby and if that's If you're fortunate enough if that guy's there that year because not well

That's another thing is built the same and that's a that's a great point too in terms of like tanking and all that if you tank in a year where you've got a player that just isn't that good man it's it's a real struggle like the Raptors when they had their first overall pick was Andrea Bargnani they chose yeah you can look back and say they should have taken Lamarcus Aldridge or whatever and Aldridge was a much better pro and a better player, but it wasn't Wemby waiting for you. It wasn't LeBron. That's just it. If you're not tanking in the right time, what do you think you're getting? No, I don't. But don't you find there's always teams, especially around the, like, didn't

the Atlanta Hawks trade like one of their stud players? Yes. That's what's tough. Dude, that organization must be thinking, hang on a sec. So what did you guys want to trade like one of their stud players and yes that's what's tough dude that organization must be thinking hang on a sec so you what did you guys want to do just be a player in this so somebody mentioned the team's name and you just got to get rid of a good we've sucked forever yeah well that's it man that and that is what is I'm sure terrifying for Messiah's when you've you've gotten to the top and you know what that feels like and to bottom out man, it's got to be really uncomfortable.

Do you want to be the Atlanta Hawks for 10 years? That's it. The Hawks, the Charlotte Hornets. The Pistons? Yeah, like Detroit. Like everyone's raving about Detroit and to their credit, they've won a lot more games this year. They're still a game under 500. Like they're not winning anything right now. That's how bad they've been though, Hayes, that them being one game under 500. Like they're not they're not winning anything right now. So that's how bad they've been though Hayes that them being one game under 500

people talk about they're raiding in the streets. They're back in it because they're a game under 500 and probably gonna play in the play-in. But you know that that's there's different levels of expectations and different levels of you know what what you would deem as a successful season. And we've been dealing with it in this city, you know, with all the teams, you know, a lot for years, where the Raptors were up and the Jays were up and they've gone up and down and the Leafs have been pretty consistently in the same spot for like four or five years, right?

Where you're just, you know you're good, you get into the playoffs and everything's about one, like two weeks I've been to two month window or five years they have but the first couple years It was great because they hadn't been competitive for so long, right? Like the first two or three years in the playoffs It was just free money when when Matthews arrived in Marner and then when they got in they lost to Washington that first year It was like whatever who cares that was awesome Did you have a bit nice guys if they could have picked one off in those early years?

Looking back on it now, like looking back on it like then you just don't get to the stress point of the Montreal series and different things that have happened. It's like that's what some of the teams did. The L.A. Kings, the Blackhawks, the pens, like they picked one off early and then it's like, OK, let's see if we can get another one. Mm hmm. As the as an eight seed, the L seed, the LA Kings. Could you pinpoint when it went from, this is all just great experience, man, these guys in a couple more years, like forget about it. They're going to be conference finals every year or two. What the hell's going on? Like they just,

they can't do this thing. There had to have been a year where it just flipped and you're like, okay, it's not a young group that just got there anymore. I'm trying to think back to the post-sports center hits we did after the Leafs were punted. And I think it was the third year making the playoffs where Duthie looked me right in the face and said, would you make changes? And I looked at him and I said, absolutely I would. That was after the

third year they made the playoffs and the big talk about that was okay you've got all the forwards you've got to move Nylander for a defenseman but think about how stupid that would be looking at what Nylander is now. Well exactly and you took credit to the Leafs for not jumping in. Yeah, Brad Pesci, if Brad Pesci was playing for the Leafs and Nylander's chasing Dry Cytle down for a rocket, you'd wanna throw up. Yes. So, for all the people that were like,

get rid of Nylander and get Brett Pesci, take a look. Yeah, obviously that was a very smart move to avoid. Now, the logic behind it was reasonable, and it wasn't, again, as we've established, it wasn't again as we've established it wasn't personal It's business where people are looking at it saying your top-heavy too much money here You have to spread the wealth like those conversations have been consistent. They're still here with the Leafs You know, you're still like man. They got a lot of really good top-end talent there

But what is gonna happen the rest throughout the rest of the lineup and with or without Willie that probably still would have been the case. But obviously Nylander has morphed into what he's morphed into. And as of now Willie's got the best chance of them all to be a leaf for life. Because he signed for eight years full no trade, full no move. Austin comes up in three years. Mitch is up this year. Right? Like there's a chance everyone else is playing somewhere else and Willie's doing the wave at 40. Saying how much he loves Toronto. But it's fitting and it's appropriate

because everything about Willie just screams to, I can handle this market. Like think about, oh, what you just said, like that guy was top three forward on the team and it's like, that's the guy we gotta move, why? Just because it's Willie and the way he acts or the way he plays or he can float in and out of it. And he's like, yeah, whatever. They said that six years ago. Look at me now. Like, you know, there's been so many things that have happened.

It's like, yeah, whatever. I just, I just keep playing and I just re-upped for eight years and I make a ton of money. It's all good. Just keep plugging along and Willie will be in action tonight. We'll get into this Leaf Seattle game game tonight where martyrs gonna return stole also return tonight as well but it looks like they're gonna team up marner would new and return bars so they're gonna keep dole me with matthews and i use is that overthinking fellows i mean no matter uh... i don't know are they trying to say let's create some balance here in matthews you drive your

own liner uh... would be my guess and they're trying to make let's create some balance here and Matthews you drive your own line or? Would be my guess and they're trying to make max Domi feel like you got something going Because he played well the other night and that line played well the other night More on that throughout the afternoon again. We'll get into the trade deadline in the NBA. What are the Raptors doing? What is the plan here? What is the goal in the end Josh Lumenberg? We'll join us to try to get that answer and we'll continue to recap what's been a pretty crazy day and Continue to look ahead to the Super Bowl as well on Sunday overdrive continues TSN 1050 and on the TSN app All right overdrive continues powered by fan duel bringing you everything from the opening line of the final score Brian Haziodog Jeff O'Neil Frankie Corrado get Darren Pang coming up in just over half an hour panger was calling that Oilers

O'Neil, Frankie Carrotto, get Darren Pang coming up in just over half an hour. Pang was calling that Oilers Blackhawks game, which turned into a really fun game. Oilers winning in overtime. And the Leafs are in Seattle tonight. The rare 1030 start midweek. I don't like it. Not a 1030 tonight. Is it 10? It's 10 tonight.

Okay, 10 I can kind of accept. I thought it was 1030. There are a couple things about that start time i can't focus for more than like five thirty i'm ninja dust today because i have to have a nap and then get ready i i can't stay awake until i go to bed at nine i gotta do a game at ten i know and on this is a warning for doogie tomorrow i know it's a Friday Super Bowl, but you better have to logjam show, man, because if I have

to blab for more than three minute segments at a time, my brain is fried for. I need you tomorrow. I need you tomorrow. I know you do. Doogie's got to go full tatty booking tomorrow. Guys, if I have two late games, I'm almost 50 years old, man. Two late games in a week buries me. I'm useless tomorrow.

This guy. This is Morty Seinfeld. years old man to late games in a week berries me on useless to get this guy this is a more tseinfeld you all more tseinfeld i can't i can't this job affects my brain power man i swear i can't put it together the next day after a game alright morty let's let's leave it there you know who's been up twenty literally

twenty four seven is josh lumenberg jay was doing sports center hits last night he was on with james on with first Let's leave it there. You know who's been up 20 literally 24 7 is Josh Lewenberg J Lou is doing Sports Center hits last night. He was on with J was on with first up this morning He's everywhere. He's had really strong opinions and obviously he covers this team as closely as anyone he joins us now Here's a Raptors reporter Josh Lewenberg Josh now that we're through the the trade deadline in the NBA We know of what the Raptors decided to do. They're very active here through the trade deadline in the NBA, we know of what the Raptors decided to do. They're very active here. Now that the dust has settled a little bit, how do you react to the overall movement

and decisions by Masai Ujiri and company? Yeah, look, I'm surprised. I mean, I think what a lot of people expected, myself included, was the type of move that we saw today, the Davey on Mitchell for PJ Tucker, who will wave buyout, and some draft compensation using their financial flexibility to collect a few minor assets and nothing that was going to jump off the page or make headlines or blow minds like some of the trades that we saw earlier this week. That's what I expected. That's what we got today. It's

certainly not what we got last night. And yeah, like the Ingram trade to me is it's still kind of shocking. I think like Clearly a bet on talent and Ingram isn't lacking for talent That would be the sales pitch coming from somebody who doesn't like the trade the argument would be a former all-star 27 years old but the type of player that is hard to find and that the Raptors haven't had success recruiting in free agency and even if they were able to recruit him in free agency, they wouldn't have had the cap space to sign him outright this summer.

So you trade for his bird rights at a pretty reasonable cost, right? Like all things considered, you get them at a discount. So the price was right, and I think like, if you look at it in a vacuum and without context, you can say, all right, reasonable trade, and you probably could have said the same thing about the Yac and Pearl trade back in 2023. But context matters.

The situation matters, and the context here is, this is a team that, 16 and 35, 35 in the first year first full year of a rebuild They've been preaching patience and staying the course and this is not what patience looks like It's funny because like this is a team that for so long was so reluctant to rebuild They didn't want to do it. They waited too long to do it, but they finally did it and they were actually embracing it They had a plan. It was a clear, decisive vision and path. Short-term pain for long-term gain.

They were developing around Scottie and they were losing and they were planning on building through the draft. Whereas now, like, not to say that that can't all still happen, but it's just more complicated bringing in this Talented player who's good, maybe even very good, but not good enough to really, really move the needle in a way that they are going to need in order to set themselves up for a Championship caliber future to contend not just to be back where they were before the rebuild in the murky middle And that's the danger here is if they're wrong, if this bet doesn't pay off, that's where they are. They're not in a rebuild anymore.

And they're certainly not contending. They're back where they were in limbo and Masai Ujiri would have to wear that. So this is a big gamble and a big bet on their part. And they're betting, by the way, on a guy who hasn't played more than 64 games since his rookie year and has won two playoff games in nine seasons. Jay Lou, anybody in pro sports that I've talked to about a rebuild and the importance of what needs to happen, they all say the same thing at the top of the list. The most important element of it is not to deviate from the plan regardless of the temptation.

So where do you think that that leaves the wraps? And for the casual fan that says they better still be tanking for this season to get this flag out of Duke, where is their standing in that? Yeah, that's a huge question here. And look, I think there are a few questions that are ultimately going to determine final judgment on this trade. One is how they approach the rest of this season, just in general but especially as it pertains to the availability of Brandon Ingram because

he's injured right now because of course he is. We don't know a whole lot about the nature of this ankle sprain and a timeline for his return. The last update that I believe we got was from the Pelicans, that he would be reevaluated in two weeks, and that was six weeks ago. So we're gonna talk to Bobby Webster here once the trade calls have been completed

and the trade is official, and hopefully get some more information on what their plan is with him from a health availability standpoint. If they tell us and if we see over the next few weeks the plan is alright, have him practice a few days and get him cleared and bring him back and then he's in the line up full go, then yeah that changes things significantly because it's gonna be really, really hard to tank. I think it would, look at the last 12 games, they won eight of them.

They're getting healthier and the schedule's getting easier and the remaining schedule's the easiest in the NBA. So even without Ingram, the tank plan was gonna be difficult, not impossible, especially once you start with the roster manipulation in March and April, this guy's got a sore back, this guy's got a sore knee, but it becomes a whole lot more difficult now especially if your plan is to play Ingram. I assume that he wants to play and I would assume that the Raptors

want to get at least a brief look at him before paying him probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 million dollars a year over the summer. So the question is, can they slow players return and be selective with the games that he plays as well as the games that the other starters play over the final few months of the season and do that enough in order to maintain their, their draft standing, their lottery odds are just fifth from the bottom right now. It's going to be really, really tough because there are a lot of bad teams that have a lot

of incentive to lose right now. And if you've looked at the schedule over the last couple months of the season, man, it's cake. Like, you're going to have to fit probably two or three of these guys in order to lose to the likes of like Washington and Utah and Portland and Charlotte. And those four teams make up, I think it's 10 of the final 19 games. Oof, with Josh Lewenberg, and I guess,

like I'm wondering if the question now needs to be, if it was in the best interest to tank and go score Stearth, and that's a really, really difficult thing to endure, and I'm not sure how many ownerships would be willing to do it, or at least be proactive and suggest they should do it. But if that was the plan or if that was in their best interest

is it that Messiah Ujiri was just not the right guy to do that because it's become abundantly clear here. He just he can't stomach that like the the Pertl deal was the tip of the iceberg. He's shown his hand before like Messiah doesn't want to do it. He won't do it. He's gone this far. I guess he's willing to stomach to this extent. But this Ingram deal came up and he's like, I have to do this. I'm a better team with them.

And if he's healthy, he can score and he can bring something to the table. Also, they're going to pay him. Like I'm getting quickly flashbacks here, Josh. Like he may not play and they're just going to pay him and hope it works without even knowing if he works. Like all of this is on the table, but ultimately it comes back to Maasai, doesn't it? And whether or not he was the right guy, if you felt like you had to go scorched earth and take three to five years to do this.

There's some obvious comparisons between this and the Pertle deal that you mentioned. I mean, this is the second time in three years where the Raptors have been in prime position to chase a generational talent in the draft and instead decided to be surprise buyers at the deadline and trade a first-round pick for the bird rights, the right to pay, an expiring player. So in that sense similar sure but the devil's advocate version of that is like I would argue Messiah actually showed the patience that he's become known for with that fertile trade in the sense that like he was clinging on to that post

championship core and that was just a means of extending it even longer than probably it should have been extended like I was saying earlier that rebuild should have started earlier than it did, but it was like, all right, well let's take a look at this group one last time, give them a center, give them a chance. The patience has been Messiah's calling card up until today. What I would compare this to more actually, and I've mentioned this a few times,

is the Rudy Gay trade. 2013, Brian Colangelo is sitting on the hot seat and that team was going nowhere and that was kind of his gamble, his last gasp, his attempt to save his job was going up and getting Rudy Gay. Similar situation where like Rudy was good, not great, a fringe all-star but very flawed. They didn't give up much to get him, so I think they liked the idea that, oh, this is a discount, we're upgrading our talent.

But he comes in and he clashed in terms of skill set with the guys that were already here, Damar and Kyle and had very similar strengths and weaknesses. And the result was he stunted their growth and froze that team in mediocrity ultimately until Masai comes in and cleans up that mess. I looked at this and said, okay, well, pretty clear now in hindsight why Colangelo felt

like he needed to make that trade. He was clearly feeling the heat, clearly under pressure. I wonder to myself, how is Masai going to handle this? This is not to me a Masai-Ujiri trade. This is completely out of character for him Ujiri trade. Like this is completely out of character for him in the sense that he has always exercised patience. And again, this is not what patience looks like. But at the same time, we've never seen Masai in this situation before. We've never seen him, first of all, under this kind of pressure

or scrutiny with the fact that they've missed the playoffs in three or four years and obviously the impending ownership change in MLSC. So maybe he was feeling pressure in that regard to get things turned around pretty quickly. But we've also never seen him navigate a rebuild. And to your point, Brian, like maybe he just didn't have the stomach for it. Oh, you mentioned temptation. And that to me is exactly what this is because you can justify this. And I'm sure the team is going to for all those reasons that I talked about earlier, Calvin and all star in his time and all of that, that temptation is always going to be there.

And Messiah was looking at quotes from last April when he was talking after the season. And he talked about the fact that there's going to be temptation along the way, but they have to stay the course and they have to be patient. And here we are, like, not even a year later and they're not able to stick to it. I don't think this is ever gonna be like a Detroit Pistons rebuild or like what Washington's about to go through now.

They're at a pretty fortunate spot where they've got Scotty Barnes and like I think this is only going to be this one year painful season, suck it up, get a good pick and then next year you try to push forward, it still might be that. If they can, they've really gotta find a way to thread the needle here and execute this over the next few months, then all of a sudden

you got a good pick, and you've got Brandon Ingram this next year, maybe that will make people feel differently about this trade, it will probably make me feel differently about it, but for now I'm confused and skeptical. So with all that being said, like when the dust settles and if this group is healthy how competitive are they in the Eastern Conference? A middling team and I might be wrong like we'll see what Brandon Ingram can turn into like this is a bet on him getting

healthy and staying healthy because to his credit when he has been healthy before he has looked like an all-star caliber player. Not perfect and that's the thing is like you're not just compiling a roster on paper. It's not just about accumulating talent. We've seen that before. We've seen it not work out before. So much of it is fit and timing. We talked about the timing and how it doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense but how

about the fit too in the sense that like really gifted score but does a lot of his work from the mid-range where right now Scottie Barnes and RJ Barrett operate he's not a great three-point shooter which they could really use one of those right now and he's not a great or at least not a consistent defender and they could really use one of those two now. And he's not a great, or at least not a consistent defender, and they could really use one of those too right now. So yeah, I'm not sure from a fit standpoint how this is gonna work. They've got a lot of talent on the floor.

They're still pretty young, and they've shipped out a lot of veterans today too. So I think they're better. They can be pretty good, but are they anywhere close right now to pushing for even a playoff spot? Like play-in, sure, but a wise man once said, play-in for what?

I'm not sure he still believes that. But yeah, I just don't think that that can be your ceiling. I think a lot of people, it's funny how things have changed over the last few decades because I think at one point the idea of a team coming out and saying, oh we're rebuilding, like there would have been uproar. But when Masai Jiri used that word and used it a number of times on media day, people were happy, people were relieved, fans get it and it was too long, too much like stuck in limbo and clinging to the remnants of their championship past.

They were finally progressing towards something and building something that was actually starting to take shape, and that's the crazy part of this, is like, it's not like the brief period of rebuild that they actually had was a disaster, it was successful. They were trending in the right direction. Things were coming together really well. The young guys have been showing strides and competing, playing hard under Darko and they were losing games. Like even despite this stretch of eight wins

and 12 games, they're still fifth from the bottom. So far, like they've checked off a lot of boxes this season. I don't see what was wrong with just staying the course and playing out that plan even just for a few more months and then changing things up next year once they were actually ready. I'm not sure anyone feels like they're ready right now to be trading draft capital and one player away. Like that's not the team that they are right now.

No, it's not. And with or without Brandon Ingram, but listen, you know, the glass glass half full I guess from an entertainment standpoint is when this guy plays he's a lot of fun to watch play you know he's a pure score like he said he's a former second overall pick and we'll see you know he's been laboring with this ankle sprain for two months so who knows when he's gonna play and how much effect it's gonna have on the rest of the season but pretty crazy turn of events appreciate the breakdown as always thank you Josh months so i who knows when he's gonna play in how much effect it's gonna have on the rest of the season but

pretty crazy turn of events uh... appreciate the breakdown as always thank you josh alright i've talked to josh lewemberger rappers reporter uh... dads it's have been a couple of perplexing moves from the side i got a lot worse i got a perplexing

potential move for someone there's talk that brooklyn is going to buy out simon's okay it after i read that sentence it said potential suitors are x and y and i'm like what the hell are you talking about potential suit one was the clippers

what are you talking about potential suit one was the clippers what are you talking about potential suitors i don't know if you possibly want to bring that cat into your locker room people can't help themselves when they see the scrap heap and they're like i can get out of the seventy five percent is now all they did way that this is different man he is a different that irreplaceable is a swamp of this is like different guy. He represents something is a swamp This is like the swamp where you got a travel to you've got a portage to

This is the depth of the swamps. This isn't a scrap heap No, it's it's something significantly worse than that But someone will sign them because he's still got the talent and he'll show up and he'll look at that boardroom meeting look like He's saying I think if we give him a shot, he could dot dot dot. I don't have an answer for you. That's anything reasonable. It's desperation is what it is, but that's what you get in a sport. That's what you get in all these sports.

There's so many teams, watered down. Dude, everyone loves a sale, just like in life. You see that 75% off, you're like, that looks, I don't need it. I don't necessarily want it, but for that price, I'll take it. Yeah, exactly. And that's kind of what happened here with Ingram where they didn't pay a significant price. Like they were always moving off Brown, a Linux got no future here. The pick is the Indiana pick. It's got some protection on it. It's just, what do you think you're getting with him in terms of this team and

how much is it going to expedite the process? Is there a Scotty Barnes element to it where Scottie's made it clear like you better get me someone or I'm going to be unhappy? I don't know. Maybe that's a part of it. I'm not sure. Is it, is there heat from upstairs? Like you better get back into the playoffs. Possibly. I find it hard to believe Messiah would kind of buckle to that, but he does have bosses, everyone's got bosses. Is there empty seats there? Well, yeah, I mean, it's a down period.

They still sell, but it's not to the same extent. And listen, it's an awful season. They're a horrible team. But we knew that. But you knew that, exactly. So you just got to take what you can get out of it and hope you go to the right game with the right opponents in town and maybe they get a win and you know in reality Washington New Orleans Utah Charlotte those are the bottom four it's probably not going to change with or without Brandon Ingram and you're competing

with probably Brooklyn to see if you're fifth or sixth from the bottom and that's where you're going to be and maybe you win the lottery you get Cooper flag then you bring in Brandon Ingram like that's glass half full you bring in all talent, you try to make it work, you take a big step next year and you move forward. I mean, that's what you're hoping for if you're a Raptor fan right now. All right, Darren Pang in about 20 minutes, Leafs in Seattle tonight, bunch of games in the NHL.

And still waiting on word of Sidney Crosby and whether or not he's gonna be able to make it to the Four Nations faceoff. Skated today, but gingerly, did not look great. So more on that still to come as well. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on TSN 2. Alright, Super Bowl Sunday rapidly approaching and every incredible playoff moment on TSN is powered by Bud Light, a refreshing taste that's easy to enjoy.

Tune in game day for pulse-pounding action. Picks will be happening tomorrow, We'll catch up with Luke Wilson tomorrow Al's brother will be around. It's gonna be a fun one and once we get through the Super Bowl it is going to be all about I guess the four nations face-off at that point and Marner's playing tonight, so he'll be there Quinn Hughes is not playing tonight and Sydney Crosby skated today but did so and looked very gingerly and he was on his own and not with anyone else didn't shoot like that was

noticeable his passing the puck around but then there's the approach of Petra Angelo who had a nagging injury 10 days ago continues to play 30 at night and says I'm not I'm pulling the pin can't do it and he got rocked when was that oh it was a few days ago Cooley that was one of the biggest hits we've seen in a long long time it was a great hit yeah dude that guy's out on the ice it's Sidney Crosby man he's gonna play Quinn Hughes I think Quinn like Quinn Hughes is the ultimate professional knows his his body, he's just gonna say look, if this is something that's gonna potentially make me not play when this is

over, I'm not going. Like he's not stupid man, none of these guys are. You're right, and I think with Quinn Hughes, Vancouver would probably approach that and say whatever you wanna do, like you've been through enough this year, so like it's on you, we're not gonna try and persuade you anyway. They will do anything to keep that guy happy at this point. Yeah, and as they should, but that's a big loss. I mean, it'd be a big loss to miss out on Sid.

It's a loss for Patrangelo not to be there, but Quinn Hughes, the way he's playing right now. Yeah, MVP caliber. Yeah, the guy's been maybe the best player in the league this year. You could legitimately make that case and it would sting for the Americans but yeah I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to it man. I mean we're not we're not quite there yet but we're gonna have to find out real soon like who's in who's not who the replacements are and that's

another element to it the replacements are. And that's another element to it. The replacements are, they probably, you tip them off, you have to give a guy some sort of an advance so that he knows. Like it's unfair to Mark Shifely and Hyman and Suzuki or whoever. It's like, am I getting a call or not? No, I think all these guys are like, hey, you're on a short list here if something happens,

so just be aware, right? Like I think- That Shifely better be on a short list man well he would have to be dude yeah he's playing great they've been great real yeah they're 15 20 player in the NHL this year his line is one of the best lines in the league like mm-hmm he's got a little difference to his game too where it's like he kind of cares a little more away from the puck than maybe he has in years past which I like yeah they're rocking right now, man.

Like that line. Gabe Velardi's been a huge, huge addition for them. Dude, that's massive. He's so good. He's so crafty with the puck. And yeah, we'll see what comes of that. All right, more on that into the next hour. Darren Peng will join us and we'll continue to tee up the Leafs in action tonight.

Overdrive continues TSN 1050N on TSN 2. You've been listening to Overdrive, powered by Fandual. Fandual, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score.