OverDrive - OverDrive - January 3rd, 2025 - Hour 1

Episode Date: January 3, 2025

Join Bryan Hayes and Jonas Siegel for Hour 1 on OverDrive! Hayes and Siegel dive in to Canada's loss to Czechia at the World Juniors. Darren Dreger joins us to continue the Hockey Canada discusssion.

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The smarter way to book travel. All right, here we go. Overdrive off and running. TSN 1050 on the TSN app. Your home smart speaker. And up on TSN for Brian Hayes and Jonas Siegel of The Athletic. Two good Canadian boys in here. You got it.

Two good Canadian boys here on a Friday afternoon. So can I tell you, last night was one of those nights where you need your remote, like just constantly changing around. So I'm watching the pregame show on TSN for the World Juniors, and I listen to O, and he's like, it is so important for them to score the first goal. It might be the most important first goal in hockey history. I'm paraphrasing.

And then I flip back over to the Leaf game to watch the start of that. And then I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to go check back in. 1-0. It's like two minutes in. Less than a minute in, it was 1-0. I know. I was not expecting that, I guess is what I'm saying.

I wasn't expecting that necessarily. I think that was great analysis from Mo, and he was proven right in the end. He was proven right even though the Canadian team battled back and it was tied late into the third period. I think what was so difficult to stomach once the dust settled, now that we've all had a chance to sleep on it, we wake up the next day, is that no one in the country was surprised they lost. No. True. Yeah. Right?

You may not have been surprised if they won, but you're not surprised they lost. We talked about that for three hours yesterday. This was a coin flip. There was no guarantee they were going to win that game. And they didn't get goalied. It's not as if they had the performance of a lifetime and they just had a couple of unlucky bounces. Czechia deserved to win that game. And they didn't get goalied. It's not as if they had the performance of a lifetime and they just had a couple of unlucky bounces. Czechia deserved to win that game last night.

It actually kind of followed the script of what you probably expected was going to happen. They gave up the first goal. It was tight. They fought their way back into it. Take a penalty. It was an issue again. Can't kill penalties.

Game over. Score enough. Like three goals, I guess. Is three goals enough to win, I guess? Not generally at that tournament or that level. Yeah. Like in the junior level, you've got to score goals, man. Yeah, exactly.

You've got to get to four, five, six goals. And again, I think that was what was so staggering about the whole process. Like as you look back in the last couple of weeks, absolutely not an ounce of surprise that they lost in the quarterfinals at home against Czechia. Like, Czechia owns Canada at the World Juniors. And this is literally unprecedented. It never happened back-to-back years out in the quarters.

And I was thinking about it last night. The biggest hockey events on, let's say, on the men's side, the Olympic Games every four years, that stands alone. That will always be the biggest thing. There was a time when it was the Canada Cup or whatever, the Summit Series. Best on best every four years. National team. That will always be the biggest tournament and the one that is the most hyped

and the one that is most broken down and revered. Anything cherished if Canada ends up winning it. And it's the most heartbreaking if they end up losing it or don't finish with a gold medal or whatever it might be. I would argue second in line is the World Juniors at home, specifically. I think there is a distinction at home compared to in Europe or even in the United States. I think it's second no matter what.

Do you think world champions? I don't think world champions. No, nothing else comes. I don't think the world championships does. You're right about that. I think the world juniors in general, I guess what I'm saying is I separate them losing at home and the tournament at home. It just feels different.

It's primetime. It's Canada. It's in our building. It's packed with our fans our fans are showing up to watch latvia play germany that's how much canadians love the tournament and it's their civic pride that comes in it whatever community is hosting there's so much build up towards it yeah i just think there's a separation of this tournament at home compared to everywhere else and um that's what made it heartbreaking for the players last night

and I think embarrassing for the program. That's a good way to put it. I think there's a separation. I think the players are heartbroken. I think the coaching staff, management, Hockey Canada, they're embarrassed and they should be. Back-to-back years, losing the quarterfinal to Czechia, that's embarrassing.

And what I found disturbing last night, because we make the joke all the time, summit, here comes the summit, Canada lost, got to have a summit. And a lot of times it is tongue-in-cheek and it is sarcastic. If we have reached a point at the junior level, which means we're probably at that level when it comes to the development stages, minor hockey. And that means if it's happening in minor hockey and in junior, it's probably here on the national level, and we may experience that like five weeks.

If our mentality collectively as a hockey nation is, what are you going to do? Other teams are good also? That's staggering. That's terrifying. Are you referring to do? Other teams are good also? That's staggering. That's terrifying. Are you referring to the comments today? Management? Management today.

Dave Cameron last night. Yeah. I think the way that Dave Cameron portrayed himself, and listen, again, I think they're embarrassed. I think they're shell-shocked. I understand it. There's emotion there. I think they're on guard.

I think Dave Cameron last night had his guard up because he realized this team is going to get torched you lost that's the hometown he coaches the 67s right he's done it before for hockey canada he's coached them multiple times this was a legacy moment for him and a legacy moment for the front office but i thought dave cameron was, go look at the play. I don't think he was protective of the players as much as he should have been last night. And I think in large part because of, again, the embarrassment and the shell shock of it all. But his reaction was, I kind of knew three or four teams could win it. What are you going to do?

And then today, management steps up and goes basically the same thing. Well, they basically said Dave put the players in the positions of score. Yeah, not us. What are you going to do? What do you want out of us? Horrible, horrible messaging from Hockey Canada. If you were advising them, what would you want them to say? Or what do you think they should have said? I don't think you can single...

I don't blame them for not singling out specific players that should have come to this. Right. You can't say we brought the wrong players. No. You cannot say that because it's unfair to the players collectively that are on the team. Right? And I understand why they don't do that, why they shouldn't do that. And I will say, there's a lot of people in the country who all of a sudden are experts on some kid playing in Saskatoon.

Yeah, I'm not that. You know what I mean? And I'm not either. I don't know. Like, everyone's got an answer. Well, that kid at Michigan, how do you know? You're watching the Wolverines play? You don't know. Like, everyone's got an answer. Well, that kid at Michigan, how do you know? You're watching the Wolverines play? You don't know.

You understand the stats. You understand that there's skill. And there are people that are informed that have that opinion, that have that take, and that's fine. So be it. But a lot of Canadians don't have a clue what these kids are doing when it comes to their club team. And they don't know who should be here and who should not be here.

But I think you fall on the sword for the country. And I think you, I wanted to hear a messaging of, instead of a defeatist, hey, what are you going to do? Acknowledge that this might be an existential moment for the sport in the country. Because we cannot lose sight of that. We can't lose the high expectation. It's the only thing we have. When you look on the men's side in particular,

the soccer team's getting a lot better. Made it to the World Cup. That was awesome. They're never winning a World Cup. They're not going to be Brazil or Argentina. We argued about this one day. It's never going to happen. I'm not trying to disparage them.

I'm just being a realist here. It's amazing the steps that that program has taken. Now, some drones have flown it the wrong way in recent years, but that program's moving in a great direction. Awesome. We're on board. But everyone's a realist. The basketball team, awesome.

Made it back to the Olympic Games first time in 24 years. They're never going to be on par with the Americans. We're just not going to get there. Are we going to have expectations where we should medal? Yes. The highest expectations? No. Let's be realistic. That's not going to happen. The only sport that we

have where we can puff our chest out and say, that's ours and we're the best and we're not going to lose it, is hockey. They better make sure they can keep it and we got to figure that out and i'm not trying to overreact to two years the quarterfinals they could win the gold next year it's not about that it's not that we don't have talent or it's just if the mentality is hey everyone's caught up and what are we going to do that is troubling but let me ask you that and what are we going to do? That is troubling.

But let me ask you that. Isn't that sort of fair as a side point? How did we allow it to get to that point? Because that's just what happens. If you mention basketball, the rest of the world is catching up to the USA in basketball. No, they're not. Yes, they are.

No, they're not. Did you watch the Olympics? Yes, who won? Do you know who the best five players in the league right now are? Not Americans. Are they all of one specific nation? No. No, of course not. No, but other countries are getting better.

They're getting better. They're not passing them. They're not passing them. They're not passing them. They're really close. Like France pushed the U.S. France. Jonas, do you think France is on par with the Americans when it comes to basketball?

No, but... And what do you think? Do you think that the chasm is getting shorter? Yeah, smaller. Listen, I get what you're saying. But, but, but... Other countries are allowed to develop, but I would guarantee you in the States,

they would never just say, hey, good for France. This is great. No, but there is actually like an existential crisis going on in basketball in the States that why are the best players not American? That is happening right now

right and that's that's sort of similar and this is more of a program mentality i think where you're right is i would have liked them to come out and say listen this is back-to-back quarterfinals we have really high expectations this is not good enough we're gonna have to take a step back and examine what we're doing if we have to change something because clearly what we did here didn't work two years why is that yes yeah and that's that's again on the adults in the room yeah right the players the players i'm not going to sit there were some players that struggled i think most people collectively know who those players were i'm not going to pretend as if that means they're not going to have a great nhl career. I think that would be ridiculous to state that.

Or ridiculous to change your mind on who you think they are because of five games and under the bright lights. And I do adhere to I'm not going at any individual player based on the way that they're playing. Because I think they all give effort. I think they all have passion. I think they're all dealing with some nerves. I will say this.

If a 19-year-old swings his stick and does something stupid, that kid's going to get carved and should. He's 19. These aren't 12-year-olds. They're 19. But based on their individual play and impact, they're young kids. They're not getting paid.

They're trying. But the coaching staff, management, Hockey Canada, they're the ones that, they're the key holders, right? And if it's reached a point, minor hockey, junior hockey, and it gets to a point on the national level where, again, I heard, like, I was saying this, other people have been saying it, like, they were, we're building teams based on the Americans. That's scary.

That's not how Canada rolls. It was always, you guys figure our own thing out. We're going to do us. You come try to get a piece, and we're going to knock you out. And now it's like, man, I don't know if we can play with those guys. We better pick this kid because he can match up with that guy. That's scary, man. That's scary.

And I don't have the answers how to get out of it. There is a grassroots thing. I think a lot of people have pointed this out. The cost of playing is exorbitant. Time consumption. I don't think it comes up enough how many parents are deciding. Not the kids that don't want to

play. Parents that are saying, I don't have 12 months to do it, man. I grew up playing hockey at a high level. I put my bag away in April. I woke up in September and I pulled it out of the basement. There was four months of the year I was playing baseball, soccer, and I was like

every other kid. Now it's like 12 months a year, like four or five days a week. It's a lot. All right, Darren Drager coming up on what he saw last night. The Leafs with a win. I think that was great for the country that the Leafs picked up a win. I'm sure they care in Vancouver. Everyone coming together for the Leafs with a win. I think that was great for the country that the Leafs picked up a win. I'm sure they care in Vancouver.

Everyone coming together for the Leafs. Although Demko left the game last night. Updates on where the Leafs are at. Philip Myers with a two-year deal today. Darren Dreger coming up. Mike Johnson looking back on Hockey Canada and what happened in this tournament as well. Johnny will join us just after 5.

Jonas is in here. I'm Brian Hayes. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on TSN 4. The weekend brings hurry up tomorrow to Rose Bowl Stadium in Los Angeles on January 25th for one night only. Get there with iHeartRadio. Two tickets to the show, flights, and hotel from tripcentral.ca,

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continues brought to you by FanDuel bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score Brian Hayes, Jonas Siegel Mike Johnson later this afternoon, Mike Golick Jr. on the NFL weekend. Final weekend of the regular season. And the Leafs with a double shot this weekend. The Bruins tomorrow and the Flyers on Sunday.

After a big win last night. Very compelling game. You say that with a bit of a smirk. I wonder what the smirk is for. The games have been very boring recently, but they've been very effective. So I think that's all you want if you're Craig Berube. A lot of Canadians focused on Canada last night. I'm sure Darren Dreger was one of millions watching both games last night.

Here's our TSN Hockey Insider. Dregs, you're a good Canadian boy. How do you react to what happened at the World Juniors? Well, I mean, automatically it begins with disappointment, right? Just from a fan perspective uh but the other thing that i don't know that it's been fairly acknowledged is i would say in the last 10 maybe even drifted back to 15 years but certainly the last decade you know there would be seven countries around the world excluding russia of course for obvious reasons, that have invested and have focused and have done great work in just getting better as hockey federations and

as organizations, right? And I guess that would be stealing the template from Canada and the United States and some of the hockey powers, but we're seeing it firsthand that in the last 10 years, for sure, these teams come better prepared and focused on what it takes to tangle with the best like USA and Canada and Sweden and Finland and now Czechia as well. So you start by giving credit where credit is due, and then you start to pick apart, okay, well, what went wrong here? You know, why couldn't Dave Cameron and the coaching staff, you know, find enough accountability in these young players to overcome the fact that they weren't generating enough offense?

Well, it's pretty obvious if you're not going to score enough goals, you can't take as many penalties as Canada continued. And why is that? take as many penalties as Canada continued. And why is that? And why didn't they practice when every other world junior team would practice? I mean, these kids can't be that exhausted. I mean, there was so much that could have and should have been worked on.

And as one coach explained to me today, that's where, guys, you find a way to hold kids accountable, to get that message across. And it's in practice. You know, because it's a short tournament and you've got a skilled group of hockey players, and, okay, you're maybe not going to sit or bench certain players. Well, if you took a terrible penalty the night before, but I still see the value and I need you to be better, I'm going to find a way to get that message through in practice. Well, Canada didn't practice from the 31st through January 2nd, and that's mind-boggling.

So it's a disappointment for sure, but as an educated hockey fan, and there are millions around this great country, I think that there are a lot of questions that still don't have answers. Yeah. And listen, Czechia, man, you've got to give them credit. That's two years in a row against Canada. Like last night's in Ottawa. That's where the Sens play. There are 20,000 people there.

They're all Canadian. And they showed up and they scored 43 seconds into the game and they never looked. Even when Canada tied it up, they were breathing easy. Full credit to them. I mean, that definitely is something that needs to be brought up for sure. But on a Canadian level, man, I'm curious, Dregs, how the GMs of the NHL react to something like this. Are they in contact with Hockey Canada?

Are they just specifically concentrating on their own players? How would the GMs react to something like that? Well, I mean, if you're a Canadian GM, whether or not you're a Canadian general manager in a Canadian market, there are lots of Canadian GMs around the NHL.

First and foremost, yeah, they'd be disappointed because they, too, take great pride in seeing Canada do well, no different than every other country that participates. But they're mostly invested in their own players. So now they're focused, you know, disappointed, of course, if they had prospects on Team Canada.

You know, they've been dispatched, so now their focus shifts elsewhere. But, you know, the message that I got almost immediately last night from around the hockey world was, and it was, you know, amplified this morning privately, not publicly, but, okay, what's the takeaway of this? You know, you left so many good players, you know, on the cutting room floor, literally, and not saying that the guys that they took aren't good players. Of course they are. Of course they are. You know, elite fans watching Easton Callen,

are they judging him based on what they saw at the World Juniors? Or are they more enthusiastic because he's had a great OHL campaign to this point? And how is that going to translate? How is this experience going to translate? But to go back to your question, Brian, that's what general managers want from their already drafted players. They want to see how these kids perform peer versus peer

on the best stage available, and that's the world junior stage. So I'm sure Brad Trillov has takeaways on Easton Callum's game and other general managers likewise. We'll see how it all plays out. Absolutely, and I guess Brad Treleving woke up today and said, I need Phillip Myers on a two-year deal. I got to get this kid signed. He's not even a kid.

He's like 27, I believe. But he's been playing. He's been playing with Morgan Riley recently, and they end up giving him a two-year deal 850 per year it feels like tree living in the leaves who tried to find guys to avoid waiver issues in the future like that's kind of my read on it not that Myers may not play but if he doesn't and for whatever reason they got to try to get him down I would think other teams are now thinking are we going to pay this guy $850 a year for two years? Or is he possibly going to get through the system?

I mean, I think it's pretty crafty work, and the Leafs have the money. So it seems like a pretty tidy contract to sign if you're the Leafs at this point. Yeah, and if it works out. And he proves that he deserves a spot in top six, top seven on that roster. Well, geez, talk about an affordable piece. One thing I like about the approach of this group is they're not afraid to look at reclamation projects and gamble in that regard as long as the price is right. I mean, I think the Max Patcher, Eddie, and I'm not calling him a reclamation project other than health-wise, right?

Nobody was sure what they were going to get out of him on the PTO. And when healthy, he's been terrific. And go down the list of some of these guys that are considered bit pieces and have been, but all of a sudden they find their way into a full-time NHL role and they prove that they have game. their way into a full-time NHL role and they proved that they have game and in Philip Myers you know maybe some forget that this guy was highly touted coming in on national occupancy and just because it hasn't worked out and and you know it looks like you know he's going to have to continue to battle for a spot what if at his age you know a two-year contract with a little bit of insurance make it a little bit of money just flips that switch and all of a sudden now you've got a guy who is a comfortable third

pairing defenseman he's got some bite he certainly has the size we're not going from 850 at the end of this two-year contract to four million that's not the way it's going to work so you know there's there's absolutely no risk in in in signing this i think collectively we've seen enough to at least realize the worst case he's a nice depth piece for toronto drags i'm wondering what you think happens now in montreal because obviously they've been surging up into the playoff conversation if they get around the trade deadline and they're still right in that mix, how do you think they balance between, well, we've got some pieces we could sell for the future versus let's go for it?

Right. Well, I don't think that they're going to put themselves in that position, Jonas, of thinking let's go for it. Maybe a year from now or a year from the playoff line, they'll feel like that. They knew this was going to be yet another year of struggle, but there were stretches early in the first half where even that was unpredictable how bad it was.

And, you know, there were questions around Marty St. Louis. There were questions around this, around that. You know, but look, I mean, I think they were honest enough with the individual assessment of certain players' play that Kirby Dock comes to mind. A healthy Kirby Dock they were expecting was going to generate some offense. Well, of late, he's been pretty good.

He's been pretty good. The Lion-A story, aside from the injury, has turned out to be a real good one. That Alex Carrier trade with the Nashville Predators, sneaky good deal by Montreal on a couple of fronts. We don't know what Baron is going to develop into. Nashville thinks he's going to be a good

defenseman. Okay, well, let's see. Let's see how that plays out. But you bring in Carrier, and he helps your younger guys automatically. You know, Hudson, Logan Melu, and he's up even uh arbor jack guy as an example scruble is another one you want to throw into that conversation but advise you insurance that when you get close to that trade deadline as you suggest jonas well all of a sudden

somebody steps up and says hey we really like the luck of matheson or david savard and here's what we're going to pay well now you can afford to do that because you've got Kerry, provided he's healthy, and you're not throwing your young defense under the bus. So they've made some really good ads there, but it's all in preparation more so for next year and the future. With Darren Dreger, TSN Hockey Insider. So Vancouver wins in a shootout last night, but Thatcher Demko leaves the game due to injury.

I don't know if you heard anything on Demko's status, Dregs, and how panic-inducing could this be considering what's happened with him the last six to eight months? Well, I haven't heard much other than he just needs to be re-evaluated, right? But even if the messaging out of Vancouver is, no, it's nothing serious, you just need a few days um if if that turns into a week then look out right because it kind of feels like you're you're you're starting where you were a long time ago and you know not to compare this to austin matthews because that's unfair comparison, but the comparison for me is in how you're hopeful, you're certainly embracing caution,

because these are such important pieces to the successful puzzle, but you also have to be mindful and recognize that it's out of your control, both medically and otherwise. So I don't know the specifics of Demko, but I know that there's a level of concern just because when he came back into the mix, finally, after all the months of waiting, it was like a blockbuster trade. It really, truly was.

That's how they felt anyway and how he would bolster things. So yeah, Vancouver's interesting. I thought JT Miller played a terrific game against the Flames the other day. Then they find a way, but then they more or less take a step back in losing Demko, but we're hoping to find out more as early as tomorrow. Yeah, and the Pedersen-Miller, there's so many rumors out there. The market's going crazy, you know it.

How should we be reacting to this? What should we be prepared for in terms of what the canucks could end up doing yeah well look automatically i look at contracts both those guys are protected by a no move clause so you know uh it'll be up to them and neither side has been asked to waive that no move or even consider waiving it but that doesn't prevent patrick galvin or jim Jimmy Rutherford from having conversations. And I do believe that they've had conversations. I think, was it Brad Richardson on missing curfew clips?

Yes. Did you see that? Oh, man, that was something. Paraphrasing, saying JT Miller was hard on him, hard on Patterson as a young player. And even Richardson said he stepped into Miller being like, you've got to tone it down a little bit. That added so much more fuel to the fire, in my opinion, Dreggs.

So much more fuel. Because, look, I always want to say and remind people that we can have strong opinions, and my job is to deliver the information. But if you're not inside that dressing room how can you know what is 100 true i'm not talking about inside the gm's office or you know communicating with a coach i'm talking about okay there's a rift this alleged rift between uh elise patterson and jt miller well now know it's real, and now you've got a front row chair to somebody who was there who spoke to JT to say, okay, enough.

This is a young guy that we've got to work with, and he has a potential of being a star in the NHL. But that was a while ago, too, right, Brian? And so, you know, look, JT Miller isn't going to change the way he approaches people, I don't think. And I know Rick Tauken loves the way he plays the game when he is engaged. And, you know, Patterson is at a place in his career when he gets healthy here, you know, he's got to take ownership and accountability.

And I just know the hockey knock on him going into training camp as an example was, hey, the skill set is immense, right? The talent level, the ability is right up there. But he's not as strong as he should be at this point in his career or needs to be to do the things that would make him a bona fide star, if not a superstar in the NHL. Well, that's player responsibility. And look, for some old school guys like Jt miller to a point to a point i can

appreciate how that would drive him bonkers because he's trying to squeeze more juice out of this kid at least that's how i read it yeah i agree with you um jonathan taves we know he hasn't played in a couple of years he did an interview recently with like eq was a gq yeah and like he you know he's been dealing with illness yet he he never, I guess, officially retired. And now recently, it sounds like maybe he's been on the ice, and he's at least contemplating getting back into the NHL. How much legitimacy is there to that? And if so, how will the league respond to the idea of Taves maybe wanting to return?

Well, it'll depend on when, right? And the message that I got from someone close was that it won't be anytime soon so without again getting into specifics i read that to me as early as the off season and if it's before that then i think it's absolutely staggering it would be one of the greatest stories of a long long time i'm going to say all time but a long long time because as you read the article man did jonathan have to go through some stuff to get to the place where he's at today and that's feeling good about his health and feeling healthy enough that he can even visualize what he's going to have to invest further in physically to get to a place where he can consider

being an nhl player again and I hope it works out for him. I can think of fits across the NHL for Jonathan Tate in basically every market, and there wouldn't be too many general managers that wouldn't grab hold because, you know, he's not looking for the Grand Slam financially or otherwise. He just wants to finish his NHL career on his own terms. So I hope it plays out that way. Juggs, I know we're a couple days removed from it, but I was curious your reaction to the Austin Matthews everything,

basically his comments and what's been going on lately. Yeah, I wasn't overly surprised. You know, I guess, you know, his admission that in part the Gilbert crosscheck in that Buffalo game played a role in the latest round of aggravation. The fact that they continue to have to manage it, that tells me that it's all involved. I mean, obviously, that's's the team that's the player uh that is representatives um we believe that it's non-structural so the fact that they haven't been able to fully alleviate this um i i i'm not going to guess at what i think is bothering him but it's elevating a level of concern, right? Because now you're approaching the second half of the season and you can

conjure up the what ifs. What if you're five games outside of the playoffs and you know, this resurfaces, it's plausible. We've seen it three times now since September. So I'm not fear mongering here. I just think that's the reality. And I'm not even thinking about the Four Nations

face-off because I think it's fair for us to talk about the likelihood of them playing versus not playing. I think that's fair from a media perspective I don't think it's fair for Austin Matthews to have to have that conversation with the Toronto Maple Leafs or USA Hockey

I think we're still outside that line Alright Dreggs, we'll leaveockey. I think we're still outside that line. All right, Dreggs, we'll leave it there. We'll do it again next week. Okay, guys, have a great weekend. Darren Dreger, TSN Hockey Insider. And we discussed that yesterday, that decision will come in the future. Matthews will make that call.

I think we're both on the same page. I'd be very surprised if he plays in the Four Nations face-off. I can't say I'd be shocked. I thought about it more last night after we talked about it. Anything's possible. Anything's possible. You know he wants to play. He's not the type who just... He'll do what he thinks he should do.

He's not the type who's just going to... He's been willing to buck the trend, I guess we should say, throughout his career. He'll take a five-year contract. he'll take a five-year contract. He'll take a four-year contract. He'll go to Europe at 18. Exactly. He'll do his own thing.

So if he thinks he wants to play, I would be curious to know how you would react if a week before Masters asks him and he says, yeah, I'm going to play. How would you react? Would you just be like, yeah, that's his decision. He's going to play. It's a month away.

So my thought today, based on what he's going through right now, is I think that would be a horrible decision, based on where he is right now. But in a month, if he's playing, he's not going to be 100%. But if he feels like he is, or he's close to it, and he's playing well or whatever, and he wants to play play i guess it's possible i'd have a different reaction i think you're going to be holding your breath throughout that tournament um again i'm i'm just i'm i'm reluctant to give that answer because it's just not in front of us right now yeah and you don't have the evidence of like what happens between now right exactly like it's it really is a

projection but based on what he's gone through this year for months, like in camp and then the original shutdown and now the third shutdown. And don't forget about the playoffs. We still don't really know what that was. Exactly. And was it connected to this? And we got a trip to Germany.

There's a lot that's been going on with this guy. As of today, I would say he absolutely should not play. I think if he does play, I think that would be a bad look. But I don't want to get to that point right now because you don't have to make that call on January 3rd. To be fair to him, I understand his passion for wanting to play. I get it. These guys have craved this opportunity.

They're dying to play for the country best on best. They should want that. It's going to suck. There's going to be guys that aren't going to be able to play, not just him. There's going to be other guys that get injured between now and then that just can't play. And it's too bad.

But where are your priorities? Ideally, you can have your cake and eat it too, but we don't live in a perfect world. I mean, that's what makes the hockey in-season tournament so unusual is they're in the middle of the season. Like the Olympics for basketball, it's in the summer. Yeah, look at Embiid deciding to play. Yeah, that's a good example.

And now look at what's going on. And that was not even in-season, but that came back to bite us. They wasn't ready for the season. Right. Somehow ready for the Olympics. But I just remember that was always part of the Gary Bettman spin as to why it was such a big deal. And it's not a nothing thing.

You're impacting your team potentially. Remember that year was it 14 that Tavares got hurt at the Olympics? Was Garth Snow still the GM? Yeah, I think we're in a playoff spot at that point. I don't think he played again that year. No, he didn't. He was done. He blew out his knee, I think it was. That kind of thing is

tough in an in-season tournament. You can't bubble wrap, guys. There's nothing you can do about it, but it is very concerning. I do think what Drake's just said about how Matthews admitted that the cross-check may be factored in and how you can't control what other guys are doing. I'm curious how Craig Berube uses that to send a message to the other players on the team. Like you saw Riley fight that night.

Now, was it Thompson he fought? I think it was Thompson. Thompson just hit him, and it was a clean hit. Right? He fought him. But I think when Matthews got buried, I think that was on the power play, and it was like Marner and Tavares, and naturally they all went over and said, don't do that.

But they didn't do anything. I'm curious, and it's going to put the best players on this team, the core four players on this team, in a spotlight. If he gets buried, are you going to react to that? Because if you're not going to in this situation, and I'm not holding my breath, my guess would be they won't. Because it's just, I don't think it's in the nature of any of those guys. Marner, Nylander, Tavares, and those three in particular.

I think, obviously, if Ryan Reeves is on the ice, he's going to do something. I think if Bobby McMahon's on the ice, I think Pacioretty would jump in there. I think there's a number of guys who would say, I just saw this guy get buried from behind or cross-checked or taken advantage of. I'm going to react to it. or cross-checked or taken advantage of, I'm going to react to it. Will his three general linemates,

will they have a reaction like that? Is it fair to ask that out of them? See, if I was Craig Brube, one thing I'd be looking at is I'm going to play him less. That's one thing I would try to control. That has not happened or did not happen. But what do you think of that? Instead of playing him 21. During the regular season.

Let's play him 18. Take him off the penalty kill. Get him out of there. Cut it down. They're managing it obviously with treatment and everything they're doing. He's resting. He's not playing. I would cut his minutes. I think that's reasonable during the regular season.

Let's try to avoid some of the wear and tear. They're winning. They're a good team without him. They're obviously a better team with him. Even if he's at 75%, they're going to have a good chance to win most nights. And as we've talked about endlessly, the regular season isn't going to matter. Whether they finish, I mean, obviously it'd be preferable for them to win the conference. And they have a real opportunity to do that.

The conference is the thing. The division isn't so much. Obviously, home ice be preferable for them to win the conference. And they have a real opportunity to do that. The conference is the thing. The division isn't so much. Obviously, home ice is better than not. Division, you likely avoid Florida and Tampa. Likely. Maybe. I mean, you're going to play. If you don't win the conference, you're going to play one of those teams.

Right? No, not in the first round. Yeah. No, if you win the the division then the two versus three will play them play each other yeah that's likely florida and tampa but then that means maybe you're facing boston okay i understand that there are some demons there i don't know if you know no but even i'm well aware of those demons now if you win the conference you might play boston too they may finish eighth they may be the second one yeah i don't think so i look at it right now though based

like tampa lost last i think it's good it's not. I think it'll be one of the Atlantic teams finishes in the first wild card. So I would bet it's probably Boston right now. Right. So I don't want to play. Granted, you're going to have to beat these teams at some point anyway if you're going on and on. But if you can avoid, if you can play Ottawa or Pittsburgh or whoever the heck you play in the first round

instead of playing one of those Atlantic teams? Take that every day. I'm not arguing against the ideally you win the conference, but I do think Florida probably plays. Florida will be either the second or third seed, I believe that, if they don't win the division. So at a minimum, you will avoid them in the first round. And I think it's probably Florida, Tampa.

Two and three seed. And then you take Boston, and guess what? At some point, Tampa. Are the two you want. Two and three seed. And then you take Boston, and guess what? At some point, you've got to beat those guys. Yes. And if there's ever a year to beat them, it's this year. But then we said that last year. I mean, they lost to the Rangers last night. You got them here tomorrow.

They haven't beat the Boston Bruins in the regular season in years. Literally in years. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. They haven't beat them in like nine straight during the regular season or whatever it is. Yeah. And Boston beat them earlier this year. Didn't they beat them in like nine straight during the regular season or whatever it is. Yeah. And Boston beat them earlier this year.

Didn't they beat them in the last? Maybe I've got that wrong. I think they had that streak and then they beat them. Okay. Yeah, did they beat them when Montgomery was struggling? Yeah, they shut them out for nothing. So there you go. So that streak came to an end.

But that was. Prior to that, they had lost eight or nine in a row during the regular season. But anyway, I just would play Matthews last. I started thinking of the Spurs and how this whole load management started. It really started with them being like Duncan, Ginobili, Parker. You guys are not playing more than 30 minutes. Would you take it a step further and just say you're not playing back-to-backs? Do you Joel Embiid this guy?

Do you have Matthews Embiid this and say the rest of the year you're not playing back-to-backs? It's harder to do in the NH-backs. It's harder to do in the NHL and it's harder to do with NHL players. Sometimes, yeah. Maybe in March. Maybe in April, yeah. But I mean, if you're already going to reduce the minutes and you're trying to avoid wearing a tarp, why not

just go all out? Why would you not treat him like Kawhi Leonard the rest of the year? Not a terrible idea. It's on Austin to concede that, which is difficult, because sometimes athletes are like, I want to play. I feel like I have to play. And he's a captain. I'm sure that's an added part of this.

And I'm sure that's part of probably... Kawhi Matthews. No, that's not fair. Why is that not fair? Kawhi was unbelievable. I'm not saying Kawhi in LA. I mean, that one year in Toronto. I'm saying Kawhi in 2018. I'm not saying Kawhi in LA. I mean that one year in Toronto. I'm saying Kawhi in 2018-2019.

Good call. Give me Kawhi Matthews in 2018-2019. Why not? Good point. You've already gone this far. His whole season is just about the injury. Like on an individual basis. You're right.

The whole thing is the injury. That's it. Everything else is irrelevant. He's not winning the Rocket. He's not going to win the MVP. He's not going to the All-Star game. There isn't one this year. None of it's happening. And he's got all the money in the world. He's the captain. It's his ninth year.

Kawhi Matthews, the rest of this year. I'm not saying the rest of his career. That's the distinguishing characteristic. You're not saying he has been Kawhi. He's not been hurt like that. No, not even close. But it's more like, let's come up with a treatment, not a treatment, a

plan to make sure he's healthy when it matters. Yes. Basically. Who was the famous Raptors doctor? Dr. Alex, uh... McKechnie? McKechnie, that was it. Get McKechnie into the Leafs fold here. Get McKechnie on the phone right now. If you're Shanahan, if you're Berube, Kawhi Matthews, the rest of this year.

That's what I'm establishing. Pretty good idea. I mean, it's your idea. I'm just putting a name on it. It's a combo. You've kind of come up with a brand new idea. I feel like I'm stealing your bid here. All right.

Mike Johnson coming up in 20 minutes. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on TSN 4. The weekend brings Hurry Up Tomorrow to Rose Bowl Stadium in Los Angeles on January 25th for one night only. Get there with iHeartRadio. Two tickets to the show, flights, and hotel from tripcentral.ca plus $500 cash.

For your chance to win, enter every day at iHeartRadio.ca. And iHeartRadio Experience. The weekend in L.A. Powered by TripCentral.ca. The smarter way to book travel. All right, Mike Johnson will join us in about 15 minutes on the dust settling for the Canadian team, the World Juniors. The Americans are through.

Sweden's through. Finland's through. The powerhouse Czechia is through. Tough, man. Tough. Let me just ask you this just to play devil's advocate. I don't know if I believe this, but so the last five World Juniors, golds, starting from last year.

U.S., Canada, Canada. Wait. Yeah. U.S., Canada. Is there any... I mean, that's the expectation, wouldn't you say? Is that they win three out of five? Right.

Now, if you start last year, they've got to win the next three to match that type of expectation. Again, they do win a lot. It's not about that. I don't even think it's about losing necessarily. It's the fashion in which it's gone out. Right, if you go to the gold medal game and you lose. Yeah, exactly.

That happens. You're going to play another team. The other team's good. They're allowed to compete. You lose 3-2 in a barn burner. You're like, okay, shake hands. What are you going to do? We'll get you next year.

You've lost back-to-back years in the quarterfinals to check you. And again, this year what it felt different was they never looked dangerous, and it never felt as if they were going to win a goal. That's what felt different. And it never felt like they had control of the ship, right? It always just felt like, this is really off the track. Heading towards the icebergs right there, and it's like, is it going to turn?

I mean, the Latvia game in the moment was a shock, but what it really was was a warning shot. That the canary in the coal mine is right for Ace. Exactly what it was. That was a message, like prepare yourself, because this isn't going to go so well. And it didn't go so well. You were strange, like flipping back and forth last night and predominantly watching the Canadian game live.

But the fact that Patrick Waugh rejoined the NHL last year, the team just kind of finished their season. And now this year, the Islanders are horrible. Yeah, like the worst special. Like special teams numbers that I can't recall seeing. Staggering on the penalty kill. And on the power play. Power play is staggering.

I think their power play is like 11%. Their penalty kill is like 65%. I've never seen that. Staggering. And a lot of that is coach-driven. Like the responsibility of the coach. Special teams. Discipline.

Again, getting back to Canada. This is where Daveeron and his staff have to take a lot of heat yes is your team discipline how do they look on special teams that's the kind of stuff yes you're not in control of a two-on-one and what they're going to do with the puck at that moment no one expects that dave cameron patrick waugh craig bruby or anyone else would be responsible for that but the way your team conducts itself, that's the definition of coaching. And Patrick Waugh, it just seems like he's always, like I don't know how long it's going to last, I guess is what I'm saying.

This is a legend of the game. Why did it start again is kind of one thing I wondered at the time. And especially with the Islanders. Yeah. Well, I was going to ask, why would he choose the Islanders? I mean, he probably didn't have any other NHL option. Possibly.

He probably didn't. I guess so, but his name always would come up, right? Like, with the Habs, I think that was always going to be too loud and too crazy. Ottawa, though, when they were looking for a coach,

could Patrick Waugh be that guy? And then he jumps on a ship that's going nowhere. Like, that Islanders team is just... It's not a great... They're not going anywhere. It's not a well-built team. No.

But I was wondering, who is the... Not just NHL legend, which coaching legend actually, or playing legend, so think like Wayne Gretzky, is actually a great coach? How many times has it happened?

I was trying to think of examples. I could only think of some old ones in the NBA. It doesn't really ever happen where it works out. Yeah, the NBA's got a few examples of guys who are really good players that became really good coaches. Jason Kidd was a great player. Jason Kidd's a good example. Good coach.

Yeah. I can't think of one off the top of my head. Like Rick Taka was a really good player. But that's different. But not legend. Right. How many legends really even want to get into coaching? That's the other thing. It doesn't happen.

I actually credit Patrick Waugh because he doesn't have to do it. He's got no connection to the Islanders. No. That played in Montreal and Colorado. Yeah. He's a Canadian hockey legend. And it's just like watching him last night. He's got Canadian hockey legend. And it's just, it's like watching him last night. He's got all these facial expressions.

He's like, what the hell is going on out there, man? Well, did you see what he said after the game? He basically said, like, I think we're playing pretty good hockey. We're just not scoring. It's like, well. Did he say, like, I have no facts to back this up? Like, hey. I respect that.

Yeah, I kind of respect it. Literally everything points to you being awful, but you're just trying to convince people. It's like a magic trick. He's just like, we could just score more goals. I'm telling you, man, we're that close to breaking loose here. But, yeah, the Leafs, I mean, it was a weird schedule. You play the Islanders three times in like 14 days.

Yeah, it's been a lot of luck. And they lost the first one on a Saturday night in Toronto. But that was big. Again, Bobby McMahon. Bobby McMahon's going to score like 25 or on pace for like a projected 25-goal season. That was a really smart signing. Yeah. And it was, remember, he had a good month and they're like, we're doing it.

We're giving him the deal. I thought it was premature. I thought it was at the time as well and it it's worked out like really really well for the leafs and for bobby mcmahon he didn't have a good camp remember berube was on him early healthy scratch credit to him because he's put his season back together he's been a big big piece here hour two coming up mike johnson will join us overdrive continues tsn 10 50 and on tsn 4