OverDrive - OverDrive - January 3rd, 2025 - Hour 2

Episode Date: January 3, 2025

Join Bryan Hayes and Jonas Siegel for Hour 2 on OverDrive! TSN hockey analyst Mike Johnson joins the show to breakdown Canada's loss to Czechia. Co-host of Gojo and Golic Mike Golic Jr. gives his thought's on Aaron Rodgers future.

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The smarter way to book travel. Hour 2 Overdrive continues. Brought to you by FanDuel. Bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. Brian Hayes, Jonah Siegel of The Athletic. Mike Johnson will join us here in a moment. Johnny called all of the Canadian games. The tune-up games,

all the group stage games. Obviously, the game last night, Canada losing to Czechia 4-3. Johnny was calling all the games last year, too. So we'll get Mike's take on what's going on with this World Junior team, his reaction, what went wrong, what needs to change in the future. And for perspective, and it is valid, there are guys playing in the nhl that would also be on this team if they wanted to or if they could right like connor bedard macklin celebrini now other nations have that as well other nations but um that is a reality

that we do miss out on certain players that could be on this team that are in the NHL. But that's always been a reality. Always been the case. When you win, you don't say, we would have won even more if we had that guy playing in the NHL right now. But I'm not sure if you saw the ratings down in the U.S. for that winter classic. Under a million,

which first time I believe that's ever happened. That was on December 31st. Other games happening. Other games happening. It's Chicago-St. Louis. They've done Wrigley before. They've done Chicago like 5,000 times. A million times in Chicago.

And the Blackhawks are the worst team in the league. And St. Louis isn't compelling. Who wants to watch St. Louis play? Why did they pick those teams? Like, Chicago's obviously a big market, but you knew they were going to be bad. Just because you have Bedard? Well, that's what I wanted to get to,

is what this points to is that Bedard just is not the draw they were hoping he would be. Not yet. Not yet. He may get there. It's hard to be that on a bad team. Like, I don't remember what Crosby was like in that first year. Remember the first year in Pittsburgh?

He had 100 points and he was damn good, man. Maybe that's it. They weren't that good though. They were an awful team. But he was transcendent right away. Yes. You're right. And Mario was still on that team. Ovi was scoring 50. Bedard, the hope was this is McDavid,

this is Sid, this is Matthew. This is primetime ESPN is Sid, this is Matthew, this is primetime, ESPN, TNT, TSN, Winter Classics, everything revolving around this kid, and now I think he's got to, I don't, let me put it this way, let me ask you a question. If you were to buy a,

you had to buy a ticket, going out to see the Leafs play, and you have the option, 31 other teams in the league. Great question. Is Bedard, is he in the league. Great question. Is Bedard in the top 25 of players you're dying to see play right now? The first two that came to mind are Colorado and Edmonton. Yes.

They would not be in the top 10. Answer it from a player perspective because it does hurt Bedard that the team is so awful in Chicago. No, he wouldn't be. Is he in the top 50? Is that crazy? Is he one of the 50 draws in the league right now?

You know what's crazy? I've watched the Sharks a little bit this year, a fair bit, surprising bit. They're fun to watch. Yeah, they are. It's Celebrity. He's really fun to watch. He would be ahead of him on my ranking. I agree with that.

As of right now, it might change. By the end of the year, it might change in a year, two, three, four. But right now, Bedard, he's nowhere close to a needle-moving player. But I think that's part of it, and I wonder if the whole experience is just tired. It's not really that exciting to see it anymore. It's like, yeah, I've kind of seen that. It's the same thing. Yeah.

The TV component has come and gone. It's gone. Yeah. I don't know if you can get that back. Do you think you can get it back? I don't think so. It's been a long time, man. At the beginning, it's a long time. It was brilliant. It was really brilliant.

And I credit the NHL. I wonder why they would move it off January 1st. I'm guessing that's more of a TV component and competing with college playoffs and all that kind of stuff. I'm sure it is. You should almost take what is your best matchup that you can put together in hockey and try.

Maybe you don't even do the outdoor thing. I guess you have to. That's the whole point, though, is them to make as much money as they can. You put it in a stadium. Okay, so do that. So let's say you could create any matchup for that game. What would it be? I think you'd probably do like Colorado-Edmonton,

Toronto-Edmonton, something like that. Boston, someone in Boston, New York. I guess they've done that, yeah. It's always going back to Fenway. There's only so many places you can have it as well. And I would just have my best stars. It would just be like the NBA does Christmas. I would just say,

I'm going to put the best players in that game every year. And you can't neutral site it because you can't rely on people showing up. There has to be a host city. The host team's got to be in it. And it's more about tickets. It's still a win, I think, for the NHL because I think they probably generate a lot of revenue. They still sell out. To my knowledge, it's not like Wrigley was only half full.

They still do very good in which if it came back to Toronto, it was at BMO Field, it would sell out. People would be excited. Did you go to that game? I did, yeah. That was a long time ago, though. It was. It was eight years ago.

Was it that long? Yeah, it was Matthew's rookie year. When was the Detroit game in Arbor? That was in 14, I believe. No, because that was... Maybe in 12, because Dion was on the team and Bozak. Yeah. It was January 1st, 2016, I believe.

Or 17. It was a rookie year. I remember it was Matthew's rookie year. Didn't he score the winner? He scored the OT winner. Yeah, and then BMO, I think, was later. Because I remember BMO was... No, BMO was...

Oh, no, Hamilton. Was there Hamilton? Wasn't there a Hamilton game? Yeah, you're right. They played Buffalo. They played Buffalo. They played Buffalo. See, that's exactly it. You can't even remember them anymore.

But they played Buffalo at Tim Horton's Field. So if the NHL came to you and said, should we just scrap the whole outdoor game thing, would you say yes? No, I wouldn't say yes. I wouldn't say yes. Because, again, you're still selling out. It's cool for the individual market.

It's like the All-Star game. Is it? Yeah, I think so. In Chicago, I think they still created some buzz and Wrigley was packed. And, again, if you go to BMO, you go to Fenway, people show up. It's like the All-Star game. People outside of that market, though, it's just not interesting anymore. They've played it out.

There's so many outdoor games played out. Like they're going to Florida, reportedly. Who the hell's going to Florida to play an outdoor game? Who wants to see that? Not Florida. People in Florida. People in Florida are like, what the hell am I doing here? This is stupid. Alright, here's Mike Johnson, our TSN

Hockey Analyst, joining us here on a Maple Toyota Hotline. Johnny, you've had a night to sleep on it, man. I don't know if the dust has settled quite yet in Ottawa, but how do you look back on this? What do we make of Canada losing in the quarters for a second straight year to Czechia? Yeah, I don't know if the dust has settled.

It feels like there's still lots of conversations going on or have to go on. Yeah, it's unusual. Not so much, Hayes, the story is that they lost in the quarterfinals. I mean, I think there are five good teams, and if you don't play well enough in the round robin,

you're going to play one of the other good teams in the quarterfinals, right? Three teams had easy games. Two teams had one tough game. And if you don't play well enough, you get that game. The bigger story, and it really needs to be unpacked more, is why it looked like that the entire tournament. Not that they lost it to the Czechs. Czechs could win the whole thing.

It's that they never looked like a powerhouse Canadian, more talented, deeper, faster, more skilled, more prepared. They didn't really look like that kind of ever during this tournament.

And so that's unusual. And I don't think most people think it's because there's not enough good players at that age group in Canada. And I don't want to hear about Bedard being available and Celebrini being available. Yes, I know that would change the nexus of the team, but even without those guys, there should be enough good players to not have them look like this. So why

did they never look dangerous offensively? Why was the power play never quite right? Why did they never practice the entire tournament? These sort of questions, those are the ones that sort of leave you scratching your head. The kids, they tried their hardest.

They laid it out there. Yes, there was some very poor decision making yes the penalties were an issue that they never reined in but it wasn't a lack of effort, a lack of care sometimes it's almost too much care but just the decision making on how to run the team, how to pick the team

how to coach the team how to prepare the team that all is not just reactionary to last night. It's things that have been being asked throughout the tournament. What's going on there? That's sort of a sentiment for the people around here and for me as well. Well, so, Mike, how would you break that up between coaching and management?

I'm reluctant to use the phrase blame pie, but that kind of is what's going in my mind. How do you divide it all? Well, I mean, I don't know. I'm not going to act like I know exactly how much. Well, the roster construction is one component of it, and then what the coaches did with the roster is another. And I think both left King Canada in not the best position to be successful.

So I don't know if it's 50-50. I don't know if with a different roster and the same coach, it wouldn't have mattered because the roster might have been better, but the coaching didn't have to be as good. I'm not so sure there. I mean, I think they're both, you know, bear responsibility. As do the players. There are certain players who didn't play great, and that's fair.

We'll get to that. But they both bear responsibility. I don't know about how we can divide them up, but I think both had to be better. And they worked with each other, and they worked in concert the whole tournament. And I'm not going to act like a lot of people do. I'm not a junior hockey expert.

I got a big enough job covering the NHL. I'm not watching Saginaw play Oshawa. I don't do that. But I talk to people that do. I read. I certainly watch the kids when they're here. And you get a sense of what's there the reality is this team i think was built as a response to last year's team uh being thought of as too easy to play against so they went out and got a whole bunch of like energy guys and physical guys and sort of more consistently,

you know, consistent guys and how they play. But they did that at the expense of maybe higher skill guys, better point getters, point producers, goal scorers. And the idea that you need two full checking lines, which is essentially what they had, even though... I didn't think they were physical, though, Johnny. Like, I didn't leave that tournament being like, wow, that team was crushing the opponent. I didn't think of were physical, though, Johnny. I didn't leave that tournament being like, wow, that team was crushing the opponent.

I didn't think of them as a physical team. Well, I guess in today's hockey haze, physical means you're hard on the puck. You're hard on the other team's body. You'd love guys to run into each other, but quite frankly, every time you hit someone really hard, you're likely going to get a penalty. Which I hate. Which is ridiculous, but that is the reality of hockey in a lot of leagues including this one um but i think like it's more they're hard on the board and hard to talk about on the face off and

like that kind of harder to play against and you know those guys played hard in that role but they never really threatened to score and quite frankly they never really threatened to score. Quite frankly, they never really threatened to score. I don't know if you need two lines. You can use some of those guys, but you don't need six or seven or eight. Mix in three or four more skilled guys, even if they lack in some of the areas where the guys you picked are better. I think that roster composition

I think they lost their best defenseman, which is crazy. He's 17's 17 year old Matthew Schaefer But that also hurts They lost the guy What about Parekh and what about Yakumchuk They had the guy that was better than those players At that stuff

And he got hurt So I don't think they felt comfortable Making the very bold decision Of taking his roster spot Not giving it to the guy who'd been with the team for three weeks and giving it to someone else. Even though if you were to look at the team, that probably would have been better for their success.

I don't think they wanted to do that to the thing that was Bo Aki at the time who had not been activated. They didn't want to do that to him. So that's the roster construction. I just don't think they fleshed it out well enough or they thought that they could win games 3-1 and the top six guys, who are all really good, would be

able to score a bunch and score on the power play a bunch because those guys didn't get done either. And then there's the coaching staff. Like right from day one, the philosophy of this coaching staff was 200 foot, responsible, reliable, no mistakes, no turnovers, you know, that kind of mistakes, no turnovers,

that kind of mentality, which is good, except I think it was hammered home so heavily that the players who wanted to do what they were supposed to do got coached out of their strength. You didn't see the players be as creative and as dangerous with the puck because they were so worried about doing what the coaches were asking them to do, which is be safe with it. And Jonas, you're going to appreciate this. You know, they really, really wanted to focus on like point shots and traffic as an offensive philosophy. And that is not a good offensive philosophy. I'm sorry. Like,

I think you don't have to be a modern-day, you know, NHL coach and all that. Like, that's, like, look at the numbers. That, by the numbers, is not a consistently reliable offensive philosophy. It's just harder to score. It's just harder to score. That's the reality.

Like, the numbers bear that out. You're going to be asking for tips and rebounds and luck. Yeah, luck. And when you have a better team, you don't need to rely on tips and rebounds and luck. And when you have a better team, you don't need to rely on tips and rebounds and good luck. So, you know, I think that part of the coaching left a lot to be desired. You know, getting guys to not take penalties,

that's on the guys with a bit to the coaches, but that's mostly on the players. The no practicing, I don't get that at all. Like, I understand fatigue. I am the king of, like, optionals, but these guys are 18, 19. And they didn't travel. The game wasn't – they weren't playing in Japan. They didn't travel.

Yes. Hey, every one of these players plays 23 minutes on their team. They're playing like 14 minutes. Right. They were not getting extended. You just mentioned it. It's emotionally intense, and it's physically as hard as they can play, but it's not a physical brand of hockey where guys are getting banged up.

So we kept asking, like we'd see, we'd get that schedule every night and have the practice and it would say canceled, canceled, canceled. And I'd get asked about it. I'm like,

you know what? I'm not going to say, go out there and you need to do an hour and a half of systems work. But for a team that can't score, like mix in 25 minutes of two on ones and three on ones, snap it around and have some fun and see the puck go in the net. That's not going to tire them out. So,

you know, all these things and like, there's no one, you know, single laser. You can point at someone and say, that's the thing that is to blame. It's all of it.

And it culminated with a game that they were 30 seconds away from getting to overtime and probably would have won because they were just rampaging in the third period. One of the most electric third periods I can remember being part of. So despite all that, they still might have were half a minute away from likely getting to the

semifinal. But they put themselves in that spot with tighter margins because of the way they built the team and the way they put themselves in that spot with tighter margins because the way they built the team and the way they coast the team to play that's what they really did they tightened the margins right of Canada's excellence and Canada's advantage and brought it closer to the pack and then it didn't work out because other things happened yeah it feels like a classic example of overthinking and especially with the non-practicing like my impression from afar is well we don't want we don't want them them in front of the media we don't want them

you know exposed to public we're going to put them in a bubble and and johnny you know this the only time they were really going to breathe was when they were probably on the ice like that's when they really could escape because it escape because they'd have to leave the phone in the dressing room. Their parents aren't around. You just said it. You just said it. They talk about sort of going off social media. They didn't.

So what do you think they're doing on their day off? Playing video games and mucking around on their phones. And the reality is, it's human nature. They're not strong enough as a collective to not look at social media. And, you know, there's lots of criticism flying around. Some of it's ridiculously directed and languaged at young people. And then not strong enough to have that negative social media impact them. They're not as a group. They can have, you know, the high performance coach

and some might be able to, but generally speaking, nobody's able to take that kind of stuff coming at them and just not, and not have it matter. And agents, family, friends, teammates, current organizations, NHL organizations, all these people are in their ears. There's a, there's a lot on these kids. It's a lot. If everyone cares, everybody wants them to do well, everyone's invested in their ears. There's a lot on these kids. It's a lot. Everyone cares. Everyone wants them to do well. Everyone's invested in their success. And they have to hear from all these different sources and the actual coach

and their own internal monologue and try to come out of all that with no practice and bad memories from the previous game and then write themselves for the next game. It was a daunting task made more difficult because of maybe, again, good intentions will keep them away from stuff.

You're exactly right. When things are bad on the ice, when things are bad even in your life, how many times have you heard the place where you find sanctuary is out there on the field. It's on the ice. When you're not thinking, you're just playing and you're with your boys and you're having a good time and you don't

worry about the weight of everything else. And they never did that. I think that was, you know. That won't happen again, I guarantee it. That was a bad decision. That just simply won't happen. They're in Minnesota next year. They're going to be on the ice.

I guarantee it. They will never do that ever again. No, nor should they. Exactly. Well, this is the whole thing. Don't you have to learn lessons? Like, nor should they. Nor should they. Exactly. Well, this is the whole thing. Don't you have to learn lessons? Like, you get it. Yeah, exactly.

If you make some mistakes, mate, evaluate and take them, like, learn lessons and then change behavior because of it. Well, Mike, do you think a lesson for Hockey Canada is, and maybe this could even extend to, like, four nations, the Olympics, just take the best players, like just stop worrying about like role, like, or is that how do you define the best? I don't know. Like just take the most talented players. Like you can even look at their four nations team and be like, did they take the best players?

Are they trying to build? I don't know. Like Mike, what do you think of that? I think there is, they should skew not entirely like is Conor Bedard more talented than Sam Bennett? Sure. Is Conor Bedard playing the Four Nations over Sam

Bennett? I can have that conversation. And it's a legit one to have. But I think as a general guiding principle, take the most talented guys. Don't worry so much about positions. Don't worry about so much well who's going to kill a penalty?

If you're that good, especially at the adult level, maybe the kid level is a bit different, but if you're that good, they can kill penalties. They can play left wing. They can make the adjustment. And if you want some maybe super talented players that have a little bit more defined role, like a Sam Bennett or something like that, then you bring three of them up front.

You don't bring seven. Just bring more. As an overriding philosophy, I think that is something that Canada should do because Canada has the most talent. The other countries, not the U.S., other than the U.S. The U.S. can also have tough decisions and go for roles. Do you remember the last World Cup with the young guns team? They flamed out with Brandon Dubinsky and David Backus and those guys.

They tried to bring role players instead of the best players. But they are the only two countries that could do that. The other countries just have to bring whoever they can because they don't have enough high-end guys. But for Canada and the U.S., and you look at the U.S. team here they are way faster way more aggressive way more creative than Canada showed themselves to be in this tournament. You referenced you know a lot of the idiots online a lot of people Ruth a lot of anonymous you know clownery that that's just been in existence forever but it does feel like Easton Cowan has been at the forefront of the attack,

you know, courtesy of Canadians. Yeah. And I feel for the kid because he is that. He's 19. He's still not a pro. Back-to-back years, never played for a medal. You know, like he's just back-to-back years playing for Canada at the World Juniors and goes out in the quarters both times against Czechia.

I give him a lot of credit. He met with Kenzie after the game. Kenzie Lalonde interviewed him. You could see he was in tough, man. He stepped up. He talked. But what do you make of the Easton Cowan scenario? His play, the whole situation.

Here's the logic behind it. It's so crazy. Easton Cowan was identified as going to be one of the most important players and best players on this team. He earned that responsibility and that privilege by being as good as he has

been in London. The fact of the matter is, the team disappointed in their results and maybe in the way they played for two years in a row. And as a leader in that team, you know, some of that spotlight is going to be focused on you. Totally fair. You know, he didn't play as well as he wanted to.

So some of that's fair as well. But there is no question, and this is not me because I'm from Toronto. I don't give a... The fact that he's a Maple Leaf prospect made it exponentially worse. That people were loving to dump on a guy who was a Leaf high prospect to be able to say, see, he can't play for Canada. And you Leaf fans keep telling me he's going to be so great. And he stinks. Because that's not true. But that was a lot of the tone and tenor of what he would have to deal with. If he checks out social media, and I hope he doesn't because

it's not gonna be a very nice place for him him and that stuff is undeserved that stuff is you know that is just a leaf thing not an easton cowan thing so you know i think the leaf management group that are here sort of recognize that part of the you know the attractiveness of playing in toronto is that people care about whether you succeed or lose like i i did experience experience the firsthand and the ups are way higher. The lows are also a bit lower and he's sort of a function of that. But then the other part, he's of him actually as a player, which is almost more important because I think this will not define him as a

pro or his career or any of that. You know, it'll take a while, but he'll get over it. But as a player i think again i don't watch enough junior games to say that i'm an expert but i think junior players are so good and the way the league works is that they're comfortable playing at like 85 percent speed all the time and they win with that and they play a ton they take long shifts and it's

and it's all fine, because that's the way the league works, and that's how the top players play 23 minutes a night for London and pile up a bunch of points. And when he came to start the camp, like his pre-tournament game, first one was Switzerland, I think he had a hat trick. And I remember commenting on the broadcast.

In the entire tournament last year I never saw Easton Cowan look like this this fast, this engaged this quick, this dangerous and I think what happened Hayes is as the tournament wore on and he had a few games where he didn't score and the team didn't score

and he got more stressed about it because he felt the pressure and the weight of the responsibility then he started to drift further away from maybe the way he has to play at this level the way he'll have to play at the next level and more into his junior habits because that's what have been ingrained in his brain longer and that is wasn't wasn't working just didn't work. And so I think that's what he's going to have to flesh out with the Leafs about, you know, you're very good, obviously, one of the best junior players in Canada, obviously, but for you to be good at the NHL, you can't play

how you play in London. That won't let you be successful. And so that's going to have to tighten up and change. And I think he kind of got away from that and then it just was confidence. It snowballed. That I think he kind of got away from that. And then it just was confidence. It snowballed. Like, that sequence where he didn't pass the puck to Oliver Bonk. Like, I... And then Bonk reacted. Bonk's reaction was pretty wild.

Well, like, and again, I don't even want to bury Bonk for that. Because that was instinctive. That wasn't like, I'm showing up my teammate. That was a legitimate, in the moment, I cannot believe this guy didn't get a pass. And it's not that Ethan Cowan. And I saw like, oh, he's selfish. He just wants to score. That's not it. He was so in his own head that even a simple, hazy, B-15-foot backdoor tap-in,

he couldn't see it. He couldn't see it because he was so in his own head. And that's too bad for him and for Canada Canada and for the Leafs, I guess. But the heat he's taking is as much a function of him being a Toronto Maple Leafs prospect as it is the way he plays. 100%. And if that play happens in London tomorrow, 10 times out of 10 he puts it on box tape.

14 times out of 10 is the goal for his 57th game in a row. Exactly. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. But on that stage, second year. He's in his head. He's in his head, man. You can see it.

Yeah, you can see with all of them. You can see every interview on the ice. It's in his eyes, in his face, just the weight of it all. You know, it's a great tournament. It's great because Canada cares and the players care and it's provided so many great memories. But hazed when i'm here doing it and i've you know i guess for the first year i had the edmonton crazy mccavish goal line goal then a kent johnson overtime gold medal goal right yeah then the next year i had conor bedard the one man show and a gunther overtime gold medal

goal and then last year i had a strange year in Stockholm where it didn't go well, quarterfinal loss. And then this year back in Canada, quarterfinal loss. And the lows and the losses almost highlight the magnitude of this tournament more than the wins. Like the way, the reaction and the heat and the burden and the pain that the kids feel, especially Canadian kids,

when they don't do well in this tournament, is almost more illuminating into how they look at this tournament than the joy they feel when they win. And it's a lot. It's a lot for these guys to deal with. And I think when it goes wrong, like it did on a lot of different levels in this tournament, then it's difficult for them to be their best.

Yep, there's no question about that. Well, we've got four teams left. You'll be calling the games. Enjoy the weekend, your final weekend out there in Ottawa, and we'll do it next week. Thank you, Johnny. All right, sounds good. Have a good weekend.

You too. Mike Johnson joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. Count on Maple Toyota for the right winter tire package for your Toyota. Trade in your old tires, buy a new set, and get $40 back. Visit mapletoyota.com. Yeah, it sucks for the players that were there for the last two years that that's probably it. Yep.

Like that's a really difficult pill to swallow because you would have been... When I was a kid, it was the great teams in the 90s that always on and others that they seemed to win all the time. These kids would have been watching the five straight gold medals and now you've played twice and you didn't even get a medal.

You didn't even get to play for one. You didn't even get to play in a semifinal or for a bronze, let alone a gold medal. This may be a reach. But those can be like formula, or they can be like the kind of experiences that I see. Character building kind of experiences.

That's what you're hoping for. Yeah, like where you look back on it and you're like, I was in this spot and I did this, and now how do I handle pressure? Because for Cowan, when you become a Leaf, it's not like the pressure decreases from what he just experienced. All that stuff is, like, what these guys deal with all the time. You've heard Mitch Marner talk about it all the time. Like, he doesn't want to use social media.

That's why. Right? Oh, it's tough, man. It's not easy. It's not easy. And London lost the Memorial Cup, too. Right. So it's, like, World Junior, Memorial Cup, World Junior.

It's tough. It's not easy. Mike Golick Jr. coming up on Week 18 in the NFL. What to expect, specifically on Sunday night. Lions, Vikings. We'll tee that up with Mike. And the O-Dog is set to return. The O-Dog himself, Jeff O'Neill, just after 6 o'clock.

Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on the TSN app. The weekend brings Hurry Up Tomorrow to Rose Bowl Stadium in Los Angeles on January 25th for one night only. Get there with iHeartRadio. Two tickets to the show, flights, and

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the smarter way to book travel. Melody and Friday is brought to you by Boston Pizza's new game day menu. Stop by your local BP for $7 touchdown pints, shareables for the whole crew, and weekly prizing up for grabs. Football game days are better at your local BP. Week 18 in the NFL, a lot of starters sitting.

Like a lot of players, you know, like the Chiefs, they're not sending anybody to Denver. I'm a little bit concerned about our pick yesterday. Nah, 10 and a half. That's a big number. Yeah, but they're still the Chiefs. They're still the Chiefs. They're still the Chiefs. Denver's been a little shaky

and they're nervous at home. They need to win to get in. They haven't been in the playoffs in a while. Yeah, I guess I'm okay with that pick. I think the Bengals game is before, right? It's on Saturday? Yes. So the Bengals win. The pressure just dials up. Really up.

The thing is, for the Bengals to get in, Miami's got to lose two. But two is not playing. But two is not going to play. But they're playing the Jets. Yeah. So I think the line last time I checked on FanDuel was Jets minus one or the Dolphins minus one. I don't care who's playing quarterback.

The Jets, anything less than a 7-8 point dog to me makes no sense. Have we not been paying attention to how big of a catastrophic disaster the New York Jets are? Yeah. Do we not understand that this is the New York Jets and they've completely mailed it in and it's probably going to get ugly? But it might be like Rodgers is playing, right? It might be just like Rodgers' last hurrah.

Well, he's trying to get his 500th passing touchdown. And he needs another team. Like, he can't. I know you're less convinced that he's going to play somewhere next year than you were. I am. And you should be because I don't even know if it's just like playing like his on-the-field performance, more like the off the field stuff where it's like,

is he going to be able to kind of not be a distraction all the time? Is it just going to be him appearing on all these shows every day and just narrating what's going on with the team? Like all that stuff is like, I don't know who's going to want that. No, listen, I don't think any franchise that has its head on straight

will have any interest in him. It gets to a point where, remember Terrell Owens? For a while, he would do crazy stuff, but he was still good. And then eventually he stopped being elite Terrell Owens, and teams were just like, yeah, we're good. Can't have it. Yeah, you can't have it. That's the issue with Rodgers is, A, he's not elite anymore. I think he

can still be competent and okay. The problem is you can't teach an old dog new tricks. This guy has been a gunslinger his whole career. He has been calling audibles up the line his whole career. He's an offensive coordinator's worst nightmare. Wasn't there all this stuff with the Jets this year

where they're like, you need to do more play action. You need to do more motion. He's like, I'm not doing that. I'm going to do, basically, I'm going to do whatever I want to do. And he won in the end. They got rid of Salah. They pushed the offensive coordinator out, even though that was his guy. Not sure he won.

No, I mean he won in terms of. Like the power struggle. The power struggle and him just playing the way he wants to play. He got Devontae Adams. You think this hurts his legacy at all? Yes. Does that matter? It has to in some capacity because he's gone out in horrible fashion.

I'm not sure it'll matter. Remember the end for Brett Favre? Yeah, but here's the thing that people forget about Brett Favre. You look at the Jets, and that was a mess on the field and off the field. It wasn't great for Brett. You can recall there was some weird stuff going on with Brett Favre off the field in New York. When he went to Minnesota, he had a resurgence.

They got to the championship game in 2009, I think it was. He threw a pick, I want to say in overtime, at the Superdome against the Saints. That was the year the Saints ended up beating the Colts in the Super Bowl that year. He was in overtime of the championship game. Yeah, that's true.

So yes, he went down with the Jets, but then he came back up a bit with the Vikings. Yeah. So maybe Rodgers can solve his... I don't know. I'm not convinced he can do it. I'm not convinced he has the ability to do it, and I'm not convinced anyone's going to want him.

That's what's changed the most, is that I think he probably he has the ability to do it, and I'm not convinced anyone's going to want him. That's what's changed the most, is that I think he probably will have the urgency to want to play. Could there be a team desperate enough? Possible. I'm not going to say definitively there won't be. There could be. But I think there's less teams today than there would have been even a month or a month and a half ago.

A month ago, I would have said for sure someone's going to say, I need a quarterback. I'm taking him. I think we talked about the Raiders, and we'll see what happens. I don't think that's going to happen because Tom Brady's involved there now. Brady owns a percentage of ownership, and I think Brady would say, we're not bringing this guy in. Anyone with competent ownership and management will say, I can't have Rodgers here.

I can't trust him. I don't know what he's going to bring. I don't know what he's going to bring. I don't know how he's going to be welcomed in the room, how he's going to deal with the playbook. Is he going to sewer our best receivers? Yeah, exactly. Is he going to demand that we have to bring Alan Lazard with him? Is Randall Cobb?

Exactly. We've got to get Randall Cobb there. These are all different things that need to be answered. But I think it'll be curious. If he ends up throwing his 500 career touchdown this weekend, how does the NFL celebrate that? You have to because he's still an all-time great player, and it's an incredible accomplishment,

but it's a mess at the same time. It's a real conundrum, you know what I'm saying? Like if Mahomes did something like that, his 250th career, it would be celebrated, everyone would know it. With Rodgers, it's like reluctantly brought up, yet he very well could do it this weekend. Here's Mike Golick Jr.

Mike, where do you stand on that? Aaron Rodgers, 500 touchdown. If he throws it on Sunday, what's your reaction to it? I think you have to take time and stop and celebrate the accomplishment. I mean, I think maybe any time the end gets near, you get a little bit more nostalgic for what was. And that's sort of where I found myself with Aaron Rodgers over the last few games of this season

because we've ridden the emotional roller coaster. We've obviously ridden the hot take roller coaster with Aaron for a while now. But even hearing him get retrospective about his career all of a sudden makes you realize that no matter what you thought of this guy personally, especially towards the end, he was still one of the most captivating football players I've ever seen. And that level of accomplishment absolutely deserves celebration. How many teams, in your opinion, would want him next season, if any at all?

So I think that number is dictated a lot more by what role Aaron sees for himself and is willing to take than almost anything else, because we've heard Aaron talk about the New York Jets and say, hey, I'd be willing to come back here and be a mentor to a young guy they wanted to bring along, which is a far cry from what it felt like we used to hear from Aaron. He wasn't exactly the warmest, fuzziest guy when it came to that stuff. And so if he was willing to accept that, if he was willing to go in and be a high-end backup for somebody there, then maybe he might have a few more suitors. But I heard you guys mention the Las Vegas Raiders.

That's about the only team I can think of that might be truly desperate enough to go and make something happen. The Brady reason that you posited for why that wouldn't happen is absolutely valid, but I look around like, you know, would Tennessee and Brian Callahan be desperate enough? The Will Levis experiment failed pretty miserably. I don't know if you're going to be at range for any of the great quarterbacks this year in the draft, even though there are really no great quarterbacks in this draft class. So it's a situation where the numbers may be one or two, but I doubt even that.

Would you want him mentoring your young quarterback? Like we saw how it went with Jordan Love. It's a different situation. Like would you trust that? I think you kind of have to get in person and know for sure. From a football standpoint, he's a really great football mind. Before things went sour on the field, you heard all the guys in hard knocks and the Jets talking about the attention to detail there, the standard he has.

Don't get it wrong. Aaron's an interesting personality, to say the least. But when it comes to the meticulous attention to detail that it has to win football I mean he did that to a point where it was almost grating it would wear on guys you saw the way he would snap at young receivers and so there's part of you that says hey that's important culture to have around but at this point I just think the totality of Aaron Rodgers would be too much to have in that role at this point and what you have physically because you'd still need some of that in case of emergency I just think it's so diminished that it's probably not worth the squeeze right now with michael jr sunday night vikings lions um it sets up beautifully for the nfl you couldn't

really ask for much better whoever's gonna win it gets the one seed in home field throughout and a buy in the wild card the team that loses has to go on the road and play that wild card game uh what's your best guess on how this game plays out team with the ball last probably wins like i'm still siding with detroit in this i know since the last time these two teams faced in the game that was you know decided by a last second field goal the lions have done nothing but get more hurt on defense and sam darnold and this minnesota goal. The Lions have done nothing but get more hurt on defense, and Sam Darnold and this Minnesota Vikings offense have done nothing but prove everyone wrong who thought, well, eventually they'll run out of gas.

Sam Darnold had one or two bad weeks in the middle of the season, and we thought, okay, here's the New York Jets version of Sam back, and away we go. And they've defied expectations at every turn, and I think that offense is still incredibly potent. Sam Darnold going to the Pro Bowl for a reason. But I think the Lions are so firmly entrenched in their identity, and that identity had to change, right?

Aaron Glenn of that defense said, okay, if we don't have the bodies to go out the way we want to, we'll just blitz all the time. We'll be a little bit more like the Minnesota Vikings. And I think that top-down way that they've built this is going to come in handy in these moments right here where this is the first time we have two 14-win teams squaring off in one game, like an NFL first. We're going to have a team with that many wins playing in the wild card like you just mentioned. So it's going to be an insanely high skill level for a game of this caliber, and I can't wait. Yeah, it should be an unbelievable ball game. In terms of the Chiefs and where they come into play for you, Mike, Are they the pace car?

Are they on par with other teams, Detroit, Minnesota, Buffalo, Baltimore? How do you prepare yourself for the Chiefs chasing a three-peat here? They're kind of like the tortoise and the hare thing, right? This is a real slow and steady wins the race kind of feel for the Chiefs. Because when I look at them offensively, they're not Buffalo. They're not the Baltimore Ravens. They're certainly not some of those NFC counterparts that we just mentioned there. But man, they're great in critical situations. They're phenomenal on third down. It seems like every waning moment of the game where it's a one score game with only a couple minutes left and Mahomes and company seem to always find

that magic. I think the defense has played better the second half of the season, so it's one of those things where, on paper, do they look as good as any of those teams? No, not consistently, but when it comes to the postseason and with what we saw specifically in that last stanza against the Steelers, it's going to be real hard for me to pick against them, knowing what we know about

them in this time of the year. Always great catching up with you, Mike. Go Irish. We'll do it again soon. Sounds good. Go Irish. Mike Golick Jr. He and his dad, obviously, fighting Irish. Notre Dame, looking all right. I was going to ask you, we were talking about the Jets.

I reread that athletic story about all the dysfunction in that organization, and then I saw maybe it was yesterday that Mike Rabel interviewed there. I was thinking, man, I don't know what you would have to do if I was a coaching candidate to get me to go there. I just would be, I know, yeah, you got to take it. A lot of money.

I guess that's it. Yeah. Well, if you're Mike Vrabel, what is your ideal job that is conceivably going to be out there? It can't be that. That's got to be last, I would think. I agree with you. I would want nothing to do with the New York Jets.

I wouldn't, personally, because I wouldn't trust the owner and the way the whole place operates and just their history. And now you need a quarterback. That's another thing. Even if Rodgers returns next year, you still need somebody. You're taking over, you would think, for five years, seven, eight, maybe ten. You need a quarterback. You don't have one.

So, you know, the ideal jobs right now, I guess Chicago, although I would concern myself with their history, their ownership, what's been going on there. Jacksonville, the same thing. You know, you've got Trevor Lawrence, but what is Trevor Lawrence? Yeah. Guy hasn't been that good, man. Yeah.

Hasn't been that good. So, it's a good question. If you're Vrabel, do you have to get back in the game? I would think so. You don't want to go through two coaching cycles without getting a job because he didn't get one last year or didn't accept one last year. But it's tough. These situations are not great.

If New England moved on from Mayo, is that it? I think Vrabel would take that immediately because of his connection to the team. And the quarterback? But I don't think they're going to move off Mayo. I don't think Kraft would operate that way. He tapped him as the guy six years ago. And I don't think he's going to follow the public pressure. And I also think you have to be reasonable.

I'm not saying Mayo's been great as a coach. But what was anyone expecting out of New England this year? I thought they were tanking. I guess you just want to see understanding. I thought that was the understanding. It continues to get better as the season rolls along, and they haven't. No, they haven't. But will the Giants have an opportunity to?

It doesn't seem like they're going to fire Dayball. Which, again, is a bit surprising to me. Maybe the Raiders. Maybe you take that job. Well, he's got a surprising to me. Maybe the Raiders. Maybe you take that job. Well, he's got a connection with Brady. Yeah. Right? But no quarterback?

That's the biggest issue. If you don't have a quarterback. He dealt with that in Tennessee. It's like, yeah. Exactly. I've been with Ryan Tannehill. Ryan Tannehill. He finished with a one seed, I think, in the AFC at one point.

Yeah, that's the thing. You look at what Harbaugh did. He waited. He waited. He said, Herbert, seed, I think, in the AFC at one point. Yeah, that's the thing. You look at what Harbaugh did. He waited, he waited, he said, Herbert, LA, I'm in. Same thing, Sean Payton, Denver, I'm in. Although, he had Russ, but didn't work out so well. Now he's got Bo Nix, though, and he probably feels pretty good about that. All right, the O-Dog coming up in about 15 minutes. A lot of things to get into with the O-Dog, including his experience in Ottawa,

what he makes of where the Leafs are at. Also, the PGA Tour is back in Kapalua, so we've got to bring up Mark Rolfing. Rolf, I don't know if you're a big fan of Rolf or not, or if you even know who Rolf is, but he's been living out there in Hawaii and working at Kapalua for like 30 years. He talks about this place like it's the Louvre.

Like he's got every different. I was listening to it last night on the Golf Channel. It's hilarious. He's talking about the green on the eighth hole and how it looks over a certain beach. It's like, Rolf, just relax, please. We get it. It's beautiful.

It's Hawaii. I know Olof's talking about Rolf when it comes to the PGA Tour in Hawaii. So we will do that as well in about 15 minutes. Best bets still to come as well. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on TSN 4. The weekend brings Hurry Up Tomorrow to Rose Bowl Stadium in Los Angeles on January 25th for one night only.

Get there with iHeartRadio. Two tickets to the show, flights, and hotel from tripcentral.ca plus $500 cash. For your chance to win, enter every day at iHeartRadio.ca. You guys are beautiful. An iHeartRadio experience. The weekend in L.A. Powered by TripCentral.ca.

The smarter way to book travel. All right, the O-Dog coming up in about 10 minutes. Best bet still to come. A little role play as well. Into the 6 p.m. hour. Leafs with two games this weekend. Joseph Walt will play one of them. I would assume tomorrow night against Boston.

Man, he's been good recently. Been really well last night. Really, really well last night. He's fifth in the league in save percentage. Now, Stolarz is still tied in first with Hellebuck. A little bit deceiving because Halibut has played a million games basically every game

but Joseph Wall has got a 9-17 save percentage his last three starts have been phenomenal I don't think that should be lost in the shuffle here this guy, he's played well outside of the injury to start the year, he has been consistently available for them

that's the biggest thing like the stats i think are proving why they decided to extend him and why they liked him and drafted and developed him it's always been about being reliable and available it just i just needed more of course of course to make too much but if he had an 892 say percentage yeah it wouldn't be about availability would be why are you playing this way you're killing this team yeah and they need it right like stores i don't know when he's coming back he's gonna come back two weeks from now is he gonna come back three weeks four weeks they need him to keep playing and playing a lot and to mix in matt marie i would think

on sunday and just like defensively they haven't been as tight as they were earlier in the year offensively they've been a bit better it's like they're still trying to find that happy medium but And just, like, defensively, they haven't been as tight as they were earlier in the year. Offensively, they've been a bit better. It's like they're still trying to find that happy medium. But, yeah, credit to them. They're not explosive offensively. Not at all. You know, they just have not really looked like that. Again, I think in large part because Matthews is not himself and literally not playing.

I don't think you can put it all on Matthews. The team is built in a way that they're not going to be like that. And they're also coached in a way that they're not going to be like that, and they're also coached in a way where they're not going to be like that. It's not an accident. They've got four guys that are making $11 million. How can you not be built to be expected to put up numbers? They were the number one scoring team in the league last year.

Yeah, exactly. What changed? It's the same forwards, basically. That's what I'm saying. Matthews isn't around. Obviously, he was scoring at an insane pace last year, so that is part of it. That's not the only thing. I'm isn't around. Obviously, he was scoring at an insane pace last year. That is part of it. I'm not saying it's all him. I do think the complexion of the team is different when he's not available. When he's playing, it's like, look at what this guy's

doing. When he's on his game, it's... He was like a goal per game. Yeah, it's absurd. I do think it accounts for a lot of how I feel about the team. It's like, if he's not a part of it and scoring all the time like he has done basically his whole career, it looks and feels a little bit different. Yet, offense, they finally got it. Well, I thought they had a goal from defense last night,

then it got changed to Bobby McMahon. They're getting no offense from the point. Zero. Zero. Yeah, they're getting nothing. That's got to change between now and the playoffs. But will it? I don't know that it will.

Outside of Morgan Riley, how much more can you expect? Ekman Larson probably can contribute a little bit. A little bit. All right, final hour for the week coming up. Jeff O'Neill will join us. Our best bet still to come as well. The overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on the TSN app.