OverDrive - OverDrive - January 9, 2025 - Hour 2

Episode Date: January 9, 2025

Join Bryan Hayes, Jeff O'Neill and Dave Feschuk for Hour 2 on OverDrive! TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun joins to discuss the Canucks' team conundrum, Mitch Marner and John Tavares' contract views and John Gibson's trade value. TSN Baseball Insider Steve Phillips joins to discuss Vladimir Guerrero Jr.'s next steps, his possible contract extension and the Blue Jays' management views in Toronto.

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Let's go. New year, new you. New you. New you. Explore it all. Feel brand new. At iHeartRadio.ca and on the free iHeartRadio app. New year, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you,

new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, new you, As of now, no news on Vlad and the Jays avoiding arbitration. We'll see what comes of it in the next half an hour. Steve Phillips at five thirty. Pierre Lebrun in a few moments, Leafs in Carolina tonight. So they got Carolina tonight, then at home against Vancouver on Saturday. I'm sure the Canucks love the idea of playing on hockey night in Toronto with everything that's going on. They lost again last night. It's like the worst, worst possible nightmare is you got to roll into Toronto when all hell is breaking loose and that's what they're

facing and Patterson was a game time decision again last night but did not play and other than their game in Montreal where they put up a few goals I think they lost 5-4 they can't score there's just no offense out of Vancouver. It's like they got to figure out which direction they're going to go in with the situation. It's either like a big boy meeting with all the players involved, the key players. I'm talking about Miller, Pederson, Jimmy Rutherford, Rick Taukett, agents. Like can you guys coexist or not? Which I think it's crazy that they couldn't because for them to be a solid team you gotta have that one to punch but on the other hand of one hates the other one so much that the thought of

going in the locker room and seeing their faces not gonna work out that you got a serious problem and i don't think that it's gotta be resolved one way or the other exactly exactly and and uh... you know the reports are that they're they're listening on both players miller and peterson wild when you think about all you kinda gotta put that out there to see what kind of

stupid offers you can get the knowledge on so he might pop up and get the offer some crazy and yeah peterson's forty games into an eight-year deal eleven point six million with full no move for no trade That's another thing like There's a chance peterson jams you up or Miller and they're not interested in going they've all got no trades Everyone's got a no move in this league. You know if you're a star player. It's very complicated to make a trade And that's the reality with these two guys

Well, we do know one thing guys the reality with us to guess well we do know one thing guys uh... ozell pal jimmy brother for he's not a sense he's not going to let this thing fester too long but he's a man of action if there ever was one in an executive suite and i would imagine that he's having he's had those conversations with all those

people you mentioned oh dog like the agents of the players and and everybody in that locker room of substance and I would imagine he knows exactly which way he's gonna go if he can get the right offer Yeah, I would think it's Miller that that goes because just Patterson so much younger. I believe Patterson and Hughes I believe they have the same agent. I think there's a connection there, right and like Quinn Hughes This guy's the captain of the team is one of the best players in the league, he's coming off of Norris, he's probably looking around saying what the hell is happening here?

No kidding, like I'm the captain, I have to take responsibility for this team's performance every night and I want the best team possible and the team is best when both guys are in the lineup and playing well. So I wouldn't be, I'd be shocked if there wasn't a meeting with the three of them. Like with Quinn Hughes heading it saying, what the hell are we doing here? Like can we not sort this out? It's crazy because they were so good last year. Miller was so good. Up until Pedersen signed his deal, he was great. Didn't they win? They were, they won the division.

Yes, they won the division. They were, they were a point or two out of the president's trophy. They were phenomenal last year and it just it with a return on it never slowed down and they all they'll play great so i don't know what changed you know i i guess from the outside looking at it would appear as if when peterson got that money and he stopped performing i could see that being an issue of guys in the room and and again i'm I'm simply speculating here, but if there is a belief that J.T. Miller has been

tough on Pedersen, throw in the fact that he's making way more money now and then underperforming. That is a recipe for disaster if you have a guy in Miller or a veteran who looks at younger guys and goes, �What the hell do you think you're doing?� Now you really got to put up or shut up. I could see that in a way poisoning the relationship that much more. That's purely speculation, but that's all we have at this point because it's just so strange what's happened with Vancouver. Last night, probably the biggest story from a hockey standpoint is Pierre-Luc Dubois had

two goals, including the OT winner. He's on pace for like 65 points this year. Here's a word that he looks, which is the best compliment you can give him after the two years that he's had, engaged. Yeah. Like he cares about playing hockey. Like celebrations, doing the bow and arrow celebration, pushing guys over, punching guys. It's just, you watch him, it's like where in the hell have you been? That's, you talk about a fly in the wall. I'd love to see Rob Blake walk past Pierre-Luc Debois

and say, hey Pierre. Dude, Robbie Blake had to go on the ice with him last year and say, this is what we want you to do in the corners and stuff. It's called competing. Yeah. Like, actually had to go on the ice with him. And they flipped him.

After a year, they're like, we gotta get rid of this guy. Yes, it just it cannot exist and it was warranted Absolutely and listen to the the credit of the Kings. They haven't lost a step. No, they're on fire They still play well without like cuz he didn't contribute anything last year. Yeah, but Peer Luke DeBall like everything else in Washington is working out. Here's Pierre LeBrun our TSN hockey insider joining us here on the Maple Tretta hotline Can ox or peer Luke DeBall bigger story for you last night? working out. Here's Pierre LeBrun, our TSN hockey insider joining us here on the Maple T One of those trades that could end up being win-win, which you don't have everyone likes to say that but doesn't happen that often How about Darcy Kemper he goes the other way and the purely good what trade 920 safe percentage for the Kings. He's 11 2 & 5 Wow So I don't know. So, you know now he's battled a few injuries here and there and I would be the knock on

him, but he's looked right at home in LA and it's funny because I talked to him when the Kings were here early in October and he had a feeling that he would fit in so nicely with the way the Kings play and so on. But it was been unreal. And, you know, one of the things that Spencer Carvery told me earlier this season about Dubois, it wasn't just that he was getting Dubois the hardest assignments the hardest offensive assignments hardest minutes but that Dubois as a teammate went out of his way to talk about how Dubois as a teammate in the room had been unreal right out of the gate so pretty neat story actually.

Yeah that is yeah that's that's significant man I mean I'll credit him because he didn't really give you any opportunities to offer up any positive commentary about his game, about the way he went out in Winnipeg, his first year in LA, and he's been great. He's been engaged. Everything's working for Washington. As for Vancouver, the Pedersen scenario is curious to me is generally i find pierre correct me if i'm wrong in in the modern game guys that are game time decisions like ninety nine times out of a hundred play play

and he's been a game time decision the last couple games it hasn't played like what's going on with this casey before you answer pierre that would piss me off about my coach anybody else it's like all really what did you take warm-up in you just can't't go tonight like I don't know if it tried me nuts man Right, I don't have much to add on that you know I asked the same questions And they say since we're very close should be playing any game now, so We'll see where that goes. I mean I mean again. We talked about this last week, but it's been such an unbelievable I mean, again, we talked about this last week, but it's been such an unbelievable time period

for the Connucks. And it really, in terms of this story going next level, guys, it has to go back to right before Christmas. There was a regular morning skate at Vail where Quinn Hughes, who was just trying to be a good captain and he was a very thoughtful guy, basically confirmed what everyone was dancing around, which was that, yeah, trying to get along

and got issues and essentially, by the end of the answer, ended up naming both J.T. Miller and Bederson. And again, not in a negative way, in a way that I'm the leader and we all have good days and bad days. But, and then Rick Tauke as well got into it and is available. What it did that day, if you track all this story back

of the momentum it's had, is that it put, it confirmed publicly what everyone had been dropping. It's one thing to know from your sources and look at the filing and it's another thing now for the team to come out and basically say yeah This is going on pretty unique. I mean, I'm not seeing a lot of NHL Keith deal with it that way and it's okay Maybe that's their way out of this Whether it's via trade or via

Finally fixing all this in the room, but how do you see it playing out here? Like what do you see the end game here two months from now? Are they both on roster which one's gone like what's what's your final play here my prediction is one is gone it's not an easy trade whoever it is so let's start with jason biller i mean he's a you know obviously a big leader on that team he's got a full no move and i know from checking in this week he's not asked for a trade and the connectsucks haven't approached him about waiting. Now that's obviously changed one phone call, but I always like to say, let's start with the facts. So that's that.

On Pedersen, who does not have no move protection until July 1st, so he has no say right now, but, and listen, the Canucks are talking to teams on both, that's been out there, that's confirmed. I've talked to a bunch of teams. You know, it's hard to know right now is how many teams are calling out of pure curiosity and how many teams want to bring that conversation next level. One of the things that, you know, one team said to me is, hey, like, you know, Peterson's in year one of a nature deal paying $11.6 million a year.

We want to make sure if we decide to go, and I don't know if this is going to go enough, but if we decide to go next level that he is that player. Because it's been a struggle really dating back to late last year. So it's absolutely fascinating drama. And as I said, I'm not an insider trading by the way, lost in all of this, is that Rick Tauke's deal expires at the end of the year. Last year Jack Adams award winner as coach of the year, there is an option on his contract mind you, but still, and again that doesn't mean that he won't be extended, he'll be

Robb Rendemore coached right through his deal last year before signing, so it's not uncommon. But I don't know, it's just another little thing to say to yourself if you know if you were talking at the end of the year you know and this was a year that probably top some years ever had in terms of everything going on I don't know it's just another thing to file away I guess. Hey Pierre speaking of Brynden Moore the Leafs into Carolina tonight into into those old stopper grounds to face the hurricanes and you know her cancer it's a team because they've had goalie health problems kinda like the leaves uh... could checkouts of the good but they've had frey anderson in their dusting to cars get it to go through a

fight different guys this season already halfway through uh... what do you make the way the leaves are handling stole ours is absence with that in mind is that what is he now? This will be his 20th start of the year. He's been in 10 of the 15 games since Stolarz went down. And this is a guy with a career high of 23 starts. This is not a guy who's got a track record durability. You've looked at this subject a lot in this league. What do you make the way the league are handling this? You're right. I am fascinated by goalies and yet I still know nothing about them. That was one of the interesting things that Leafs management talked about internally when they made their plan of going with Stolarz and Wall. Stolarz really one of the real clever

signings. There were other teams that were in their hard two because everyone had looked at his numbers under the hood in Florida, but the Leafs got him. But the one thing that Leafs management knew is that they were combining Stolarz with Woll, two guys who had never really carried the ball far in a year. Neither one had ever been a workhorse. So the hope, the plan was that between the two of them,

when you collect their starts, they can get through the year and get excellent goaltending. They have had excellent goaltending, but you know, both guys have missed time, right? And ball at the start and now still large. But you know, you can look at where the leaps are and goaltending numbers and goes against it. There is zero argument other than to say it's been a success so far. But we're after two years.

So let's see how this keeps going. And the one thing that's good for Wal-Roy now I'd say is that the Leafs don't have any back games until after Four Nations. I was just reading that in Mark Masters' notes. So that's a pretty good setup in terms of giving him as many starts as you think he can take through for quite a while. In terms of the Hurricanes, I've reported this before, but they do want to upgrade in

goal. Listen, they believe Kvichakov is the true number one, but they're a little nervous what happens if he goes down, especially come playout time. Freddie Anderson is still out. What's he going to be like when he returns? They've been calling around probably more so than any other team in the league over the last couple months looking at the goalie market. One team that they've re-engaged with is Anaheim on John Gibson.

I don't know if that will ultimately lead to a trade because he's got three and a half years left at a pretty big ticket. Gibson's been unreal this year, and it's been a real Renaissance year for him, so the Ducks are asking, you know... What does that mean, Pierre, though, for Carolina? There's two years left on his deal. They need a goalie, so you go get them. Like, what... I think they should, old dog.

No kidding! That's what I don't understand. Like, what's the stopper there? Like, you got to pay the guy if you want to get them what do they don't not want to pay him? Well, I mean listen before this year to be fair. I'm just gonna play double that again. First of all, I'm with you I think this should go to Gibson They went pretty far by the way in Gibson trade talks last summer and it ended up not happening And now they were engaged again, but you know what I think of going pretty far in trade, like give me a break.

Well, I know. It's not done until it's done. And I'm with you. The devil's advocate position, just to play counter with you, is that before this year, Gibson had kind of had a few years of injuries and uneven play.

So you have to take the whole thing in. Now, again, what I've seen from him this year is I think he's back and he's motivated and he's you know the Ducks telling me he's got a great attitude I would find Carolina that's that's a big move on the meantime the Earth Cane's are also frowning around looking at a few that are not thinking about great they're looking at Forge too so you know Carolina's always picking things trade wise and and that's what they are right now so we'll see where that goes.

With Pierre LeBrun, our TSN hockey insider. It was a year ago yesterday, William Nylander signed his eight year deal, January 8th, 2024. The reason I bring that up, yeah, well the reason I bring that up is I guess it was this time last year where the Leafs said, all right, enough, let's just do it. Like that's the number, that's the term, let's go.

Which would suggest they're comfortable with doing that around this time of year. Tavares is different because of his age and the contract's going to look different, but Mitch is, this year's William Nylander. I don't sense it's anywhere close. You're listening to Mitch Marner just to be sure. Pardon me? Mitch Marner, you said Mitch Marner. Yeah, I listening to Mitch Marner just to be sure. Pardon me? Mitch Marner. You said Mitch.

Yeah, I'm talking Mitch Marner. Yeah, I'm talking Mitch. Yeah. It is where is Marner at and I get the impression like maybe he wants to play this out and sniff around free agency or something like that. I'm curious your take on that, like the idea of him betting on himself what he's what i find interesting about that is if you're betting on yourself that means you better show up in the playoffs

and you're also baking on your teammates showing up and helping you have that opportunity to bet on yourself in the playoffs mean that seems like a bit of a gamble if you really wants to be here but really wants to be a leaf for life why would he possibly wait any longer but why would you try wait any longer? Like why wouldn't you try to get this done immediately if the Leafs are willing to do it? Yeah, no, listen, it's the

question and, you know, give Marner and the Leafs some Brad Shearling credit and Darren Ferris, the agent, it's not been a headline story most of the year, which is pretty unbelievable. Nylander sucked up way more oxygen a year ago compared to this negotiation, which arguably is just as important, if not more, more so. Um, well, I, what I would tell you on that is this, that there's no, and I've written about this before, but there's no question in my mind that part of the dialogue that I think has been a stumbling block, um, in that conversation is that, you know, much like Colorado's doing with Nathan McKinnon's cap number in the Miko Rantan conversation, the leaks obviously have pointed to Austin Matthews AV and saying, can't really pay anyone more than that. And I understand that from the team perspective.

What I would tell you from the agent perspective is the salary cap is going up aggressively here in the next year or two and depending on what happens between the lead and the PA maybe even more so. I feel like I've heard that four years in a row and it doesn't happen. Well no, now I mean, Betman has talked about it at the Board of Governors or DOG that they may have, they want to match the cap potentially in a phase to the revenues that are expected to jump up aggressively. The point being that if you're Darren Harris with Mitch Marner or if you're Andy Scott of Octagon with Nico Ranthan

and you're counter to the so-called internal cap conversation, it's not the AED that matters, it's the percentage of the cap and the cap's going up. So I think that's been a real stumbling block. And those two negotiations have a lot of parallels in Colorado and Toronto. And it's actually why this week I wrote kind of just thinking out loud, not because someone had told me something, but with all these deferred contracts that we've seen of late. Well, we've only seen four.

But is there a way, since the lease I've already done a deferred contract with Jason Cave, is there a way since the lease I've already done a deferred contract with Jason cave is there a way to massage an AV with deferred payments on a Marner extension I Will tell you that I don't think that probably interests the agent 90 90 percent of the agents that I heard from in In the wake of the Frank the channel contract or against deferred payments they don't like the concept they don't like the idea so it probably isn't a solution than this Marner thing so it really comes down to this guy I don't think the least deal there they can or will pay more than you know 13 million

maybe 12 and a half million is that good good enough for Marner on an eight year deal? Remember, you can get eight here, but seven on the open market. And if that's where it is, and again, a lot of this is my own read on things, one of the other side is talking, but I think that's the clear line of demarcation around 12 and a half to 13 million here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, if that's the clear line of demarcation around $12.5 to $13 million here. If that's where everything is, it'd probably be who's both sides to wait a bit, I guess, because what's going to change? Well, this is, I guess, my point. Part of me, I guess just from experience living here and knowing the market, and this season is another example of it, sure both sides realize, yeah it could be loud for a few weeks but by next season they'll play well and they'll win in the regular season and everyone will shut up about it. That's probably what they're banking on.

The reason why I preface my comment is because I do think that that's important to point out and that is probably what they're considering. But what I'm reaching at here is with the betting on yourself. I like that mentality. I like that attitude. Like, I'm going to bet on myself. I'm going to show you guys. We're going to do it this year.

We're going to win. And if Marner's great and they go to a cup final or something, then guess what? He's going to ask for whatever and everything will flip and everyone will say, you better pay him. You better sign him. And all the pressure will be on the Leafs at that point. I like that mentality, but it's a gamble. Because if you show up in the playoffs and you don't perform and you're losing the first

round, this market is going to go insane. And Mitch will be at the forefront of it, and he knows that. And then it becomes a scenario where you could be in trouble if you really want to stick around long term. I guess that's what I'm saying. Like the most comfortable way to do this, if you're Mitch, if Marner's like, I'm committed, I wanna be a Leaf for life,

do it before the playoffs. Do it before the playoffs. He might. Yeah, well, and listen, I'm not his advisor. He'll do whatever he wants to do, but I would suggest that that would be in his best interest. well and and i listen i'm not as advisor he killed the whatever he wants to do but i would suggest that that would be his best interest yeah and and and i guess where i would differ with you brian is and again and

this is just me reading the t-leads but and you need to talk about me in bed on top of the commitment third-life first my guess in the omni-factor i think he actually really really can't himself in any other uniform than Sean Maple Leafs, but is trying to follow his agent's advice and make sure that his agent's taking care of this problem. Sure, and I understand. That's a business. I get it.

But the other thing too, and I know this side of it's a bit, it's not that exciting to talk about, Gary Benman doubled down the Board of Governors last month and we were all there, the panel, and said that if all goes well, maybe he's got a new CBA to announce in June at the cup final. Well, if there's a new CBA in June at the cup final, you're going to know if the cap jumped way more than it's supposed to. That will probably have a pretty big influence on things, both forarner and Rantleman well enough. Sure. So I think gaining more knowledge here with what's going on in the PA and the league is also not nothing in all this. Valid

from their standpoint for sure. Now again like you said if the Leafs say I don't care if there's 15 new CBAs no one's making more than than Austin. Right. We'll see if they actually stick to that or not. But if they are and they're serious about it, then ultimately it doesn't matter about that CBA. It's irrelevant. It's completely irrelevant. For all these guys, if Rantanen wants to stay, you can't make more than 12.6 or whatever

because that's what McKinnon makes. It's very simple. If you want to make that, then you've got to put your plane somewhere else. That's it, exactly. If the teams have the backbone to stick to it right it's easy to say it right now they may not stick to it. and the players both have to say I get to play with austin mathews and nathan mckinnon do I want to go play with not even close to that and that's what you got away that's that's where the pressure points come in. That's it. And you know Marner and Rampen and are great players on their own for sure but but exactly we just said to a dog is you know life without Austin for Mitch and life without Nathan McKinnon for Miko Rampen and those two guys have been thick as

thieves forever right since the NHL players and you know and this is not this is not a shot at Marner at all unbelievable It was unbelievable players are going to play for Team Canada. He's having another great year. If Migo Rampen is playing on the Canadian team, like forget about it in terms of like people still sleep on his greatness in my mind. Yeah. Look at his playoff numbers. The guy's a horse.

The guy is an absolute horse. Um, so that negotiate, you know, we're in Toronto and it's the least. So of course the Marner thing is bigger, but I'm telling you that Ranton and one is one that people around the league are really paying close attention to. Like if somehow that guy goes to market, my goodness. Well, they're tied in points right now. Ranton and Marner, they're both, they're tied for third in league points right now at 58, but Ranton has got 10 more goals. I would say his case is pretty strong. There's a bigger gap between McKinnon and Matthews too.

McKinnon is at 12.6, I think Austin is at 13.25. It's not a ton, but it is something. If the internal cap is lower in Colorado take that for what it's worth as well. Well McKinnon also signed the deal three years ago so yeah that's also different than Matthews you know I think that strengthens probably Rampen and Camp's case of a like it's called leapfrog you know like Rampen and Leapfrog now then McKinnon and Leapfrog later. And then McCarr goes over all three of them anyway. Right. Exactly.

Alright, Pierre, we'll leave it there. Thank you, buddy. Alright, go Packers. Go Packers. There it is. I love hearing that. Pierre Lebrun, our TSN hockey insider, joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. Count on Maple Toyota for the right winter tire package for your Toyota. Trade in your old tires, buy a new set, and get $40 back. Visit mapletoyota.com.

Alright, panel night tonight. you got a quiz cooking? Gotta be a quiz. Ah, there's all kinds of stuff cooking. It's gonna be a great night. Can't wait, Leafs Panthers, or Leafs Hurricanes tonight on TSN4, gonna be a fun one. All right, buddy, we'll catch you tomorrow at four. See ya, boys.

There it is, Jeff O'Neil. Dave Fest, Jugger the Star, sticking around. We got Steve Phillips coming up, Mark Schlereth coming up, Jack Armstrong, and we're teeing up the Leaf game tonight. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050N on TSN4. playlists like party hits, chill tracks on lo-fi, and motivational podcasts to crush your resolutions. From wellness, finances, travel, and more. New year, new you.

Explore it all at iHeartRadio.ca and on the free iHeartRadio app. All right, Overdrive continues. Steve Phillips will join us here in a moment. TSN 1050, of course, wants you to be our unofficial correspondent at the grittiest golf event of the year. To enter, you've got to download the iHeart radio app, create an account, and listen to TSN 1050 for at least 15 minutes straight. And once you hit 15 minutes, follow the prompts to complete your entry. Whether it's 15 minutes of First Up or 15 minutes of Overdrive, the

more you listen, the better your chances. and on January 20th first up we'll be calling one listener with a trip for two to the Waste Management open in Arizona full details at TSN1050.ca can't beat that Dave cannot beat that. What a trip! What a trip! Unreal trip, unreal and yeah I guess we got golf going on right now in Hawaii actually right there it's not this is a sony still i thought it's but sony got out i have to look at it but i said i thought sony got out it's the old sony the old sony that's all that matters the second tournament

in hawaii so uh... we'll look into that a little bit later this afternoon the lease of rap is in action tonight the blue jays i guess getting some work done today they've avoided arbitration with Dalton Varsho Alec Manoa Ernie Clement haven't heard anything on Alejandro Kirk yet haven't heard anything on Vladimir Gero Jr. which is a bit confusing for people because we kept talking about that 1 p.m. deadline right that evidently is not a deadline at all. What's the point of a deadline if we're still figuring this out? Here's Steve Phillips, our TSN baseball insider.

What is the 1 p.m. deadline worth, Steve, if you can continue to negotiate well beyond it? Well, you know, you can continue to negotiate all the way up until and through your arbitration hearing. So the deadline is about when you have to file numbers and get those numbers submitted, but there are a lot of negotiations that are ongoing that will continue. Now, each organization's a little bit different.

The Blue Jays have always been, well, let's put it this way with Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins, have been a file and trial organization that once you file numbers, if you don't make a deal before you file numbers, the only way they do make a deal is if it's a multi-year deal. And otherwise you're gonna go to a hearing.

And so, now whether they're sticking to that, we'll see. Whether that'll be the case with Vladimir Gero Jr., we'll see. Obviously, the idea of getting a multi-year deal with him is something that they want. Sometimes this is a way to stimulate negotiations, but it sounds like they're a long ways apart. And so this is really right now,

just about what you're gonna get paid in 2025. And they can get that deal done and still negotiate a long-term deal And so this is really right now just about what you're going to get paid in 2025. And you know, they can get that deal done and still negotiate a long-term deal if they want to. Yeah. If they want to, I think that's, I guess we've got to get to that answer first. Don't we Steve? Like, do they really, really want Vladimir Guerrero Jr. to retire a Blue J? Is that a priority for Mark Shapiro?

I got to tell you, I don't know the answer to it. I mean, if we look at actions, then it's not certainly been a priority necessarily because my view all along was the best deal they could make is that they could have done it in November. And what we've seen is sure enough, what's happened since is that with the Soto signing, the price has gone up and we're hearing now that the two sides are about a

hundred million dollars apart. That Guerrero's camp is looking at 450 right now and the J's, you know, which would mean the J's were in the 350 range and 350, what probably would have gotten it done in November before Soto signed for that kind of money. Now, the other thing is that complicates this is the blue J's were in on Soto and they ran on them from every indication over $700 million and, or at $700 million. And, you know, it was clearly a statement that they prioritize Soto over Guerrero,

because they didn't pursue Guerrero right out of the, at the end of the season. They pursued Soto. So I think it's going to be interesting to see how Blatty's feelings are, whether he's looks at it and says, look, you chose Guerrero or Soto over me. So I'm going to look around before I decide to come back here too, or whether they'll find some ground to get a deal done. Indications are, Vlad would like to stay, but he wants what the market says his value is,

and it's really unclear to me, because Vlad is better than Pete Alonzo, right? He is, but Pete Alonzo is a 40-hole run guy, and he can't get any traction in his market at all. I mean, he wants, you know, Scott Boris is representing Alonzo and they set their sights on the Prince Fielder deal from decades ago, which was about 219 million.

Now, Freddie Freeman's paid about 168 million, Matt Olson about 172, and Alonzo, so I think Alonzo is instructive on Vlady, but I think Vlady looks at himself more like Soto than he does like Pete Alonzo. And I don't know what the market is going to say about that. So I think the J's are in a tough spot. I think Vlady's in a tough spot. His agent's in a tough spot is agent of the top spot because he looks at himself and says i'm at least half as good

is one photo why would i get at least half the amount of money the one so which would be three hundred eighty you know eighty million and you know it doesn't there's no indication that james are willing to go to that number but i think it's going to at least take that to get it done and probably a number starting with a four. So Steve, it looks like as you say the Jays are in a tough spot here on Vladdy and just on the offseason in general, which has not gone the way I'm sure they planned it to. If you were brought in Steve to sort of be a crisis management guy here and help these guys out of this problem that

they find themselves in here a month away from pictures and catches, catches reporting essentially. Like where would you even start to help them pull this disaster of an off season out of the fire? Yeah, I would say let's get Santander sign, close that out, let's get it done. Then let's go to Scott Morris and say we'll sign both Bregman and Pete Alonzo. And, you know, it's gonna take probably more for Bregman than Alonzo because Bregman's market is more robust than Alonzo's market.

But then I would trade Blatty. Then I would trade Blatty. And so what you get, you get the replacement for Blatty and Alonzo. You get Bregman at third base, here's the thing. Bl Vladimir is going to make about 30 million, 31 million, 32 million. Alonzo is going to make about 22, 23. They're already in on Santander with the budget they currently have. So sign Santander and then go get Bregman, get him signed and then go to Boris. They look, we'll get both these guys, can't go back to the Mets.

Can't go back to the Mets and give them a chance to sign Alonzo. We're willing to get it done, we want them. And then you trade Guerrero, and you get prospects to replenish your farm system, or you go get a Closure, you go get Starting Pitching, you go to Seattle, and you say, we'll take Bryce Miller or Logan Gilbert out of your rotation. Uh, and, and then do that. Then you hope to get Sasaki and then you go win a

world series. Well then exactly. That sounds great. I mean, I, I just don't see how that is obviously going to happen. And I also don't see how they're going to be comfortable with that, Steve. Like I think the concern that I have here when it comes to Vladdy is if you can't sign this guy, how can you sign anybody? Like how are they possibly going to prove that they can sign anybody of substance if you can't keep a kid who's been in your system since he was 16 and has made it very clear

He actually wants to stay here for a long time How yeah the biggest contract I've ever signed is George Springer six years 150. That's peanuts. That's nothing They are not a big game player in for they never have been they they spread their money out their top ten in payroll So they spread money out. There's no just there's no denying that spread their money out their top ten and payroll so they spread money out there's no just there's no denying that the the the springer deal that said that that's pirates money man that's red this territory so if you can have a lot he done

how can you reasonably expect them to get anybody else dot because it can happen well yeah so i think you get guys don who want money right in in so it could be for what for the list of the sub-a-lite was those things so that body was a lot of money work well because it's a major thing they may not take

and and i think it would not be unreasonable to say we're not comfortable giving him twelve years i i i would understand that that's a logic that they have i would i would understand it and i would give it to him but i understand why somebody might not want to I would understand that if that's the logic that they have. I wouldn't understand it. I would give it to them, but I understand why somebody might not want to. He's a big guy.

I just saw pictures of him in the Dominican. He's a big guy. And I can understand that argument, but if that's the case, then set yourself up to win in 2025, and there's still time to do it, to be creative and pivot. And now you're gonna have to have a lot go right to be able to do it.

And so what you're gonna have to do though, is you're gonna have to be the team with the most money on the table. And again, it's not necessarily, you know, 400 million for one guy. It's giving money to Bregman, giving money to Alonzo, 400 million for one guy. It's giving money to Bregman, giving money to Alonzo, giving money to Chantant-Dair,

and spreading it out in a way. And so, and I think you might put together a better team than if you signed Vladdy and have to pay him the 40 million or whatever, 35 million, or whatever he thinks he should get, then you might not have the money left over to address third base and address left field And that and so, you know, I think but you know all of that I look look Ross Atkins and mark are smart guys, whatever anybody else think they're like, I know them. They're smart guys They thought of all of this they they whatever their plan is with Lanny

It's been thought out whether it's good logic bad logic, whatever they whatever their plan is with Lattie, it's been thought out, whether it's good logic, bad logic, whatever, they have a plan. And, and right now, it does not seem like signing him is gonna be part of it, just because if there's a hundred million dollar gap, that's, that's, that's just a statement of this is who we think you are, this is who you think you are, there's not middle ground on a hundred million dollars.

It's a massive gap. Yeah, it's not only the length of the contract that there's a disagreement, but there's also the dollars per year that there's a disagreement of some significance. And so, you know, I mean, look, the reason Blatty would get a lot of money is because he's 25 and, and, you know, you're going to 25 and you're gonna give him a longer term contract and therefore the money is gonna compound itself. It's why Soto was able to get beyond Otani was because Otani was 30 and Soto is 25. So you get the extra years, the 15 years versus 10 that's automatically taking you 150, 200

million beyond where the know the AAD might dictate so look I think that that it's been a tough off season there's still players on the board that if they get them they could put they we could walk away saying they had a pretty good offseason it's still possible for them to do that but if it's just Santander they keep Vladdy they play it out for a year that's not enough offense for my money for them to really truly compete in the division with the Red Sox that's taking a big step forward the Yankees are still going to be good and the Orioles are going to be very competitive.

Well Steve I love your vision a lot more than anything I've heard from the guys actually in the seats as much as i know you respect those dudes what do you do if you are continuing on this track of them love it i'm loving your crisis management loving you pulling out of the pulling this off season of the fire for the blue jays if you had to continue what do you do but the problem they both shut yeah i think you well you put out for your or what you do is you you your bet, you protect yourself,

and maybe what you end up doing is you take a risk, on a one year deal, you trade Vladdy, like I don't care what, if I get the guys I want, I'll trade Vladimir Guro Jr. to anybody, including within the division. I would, because it's for one year. Like, there's no guarantee somebody's gonna be able to sign him, but I would go to's for one year. There's no guarantee somebody's gonna be able to sign them,

but I would go to the Red Sox and I might get Kristin Cassis and Marcelo Mayer and within that, get my replacement for Bichette for next year and play Bichette out for this year, see what he does and build his value. If he builds value and I got a chance to move and mayor's ready, then maybe I make a move

during the season to bring the kid up. But you go and get your shortstop in the Guerrero trade if you, again, a lot has to go right. And it's easy for me to spend somebody else's money. And the one thing I will tell you is this. If general managers have money available to them from the owner, they're gonna spend it. When it looks like they're not spending,

it's generally not a general, it's usually not a general manager's issue, it's an owner's issue about the money's not there for the general manager, because if they have it, they're gonna spend it. And so, like if it's me and I'm off Atkins, and I've got the approval to sign Vladdy, I'm gonna go get it done.

And if I don't get it done, it's probably because I don't have the money available to me. It's not because I don't want them. And so I think that as much as we wanna put it on the front office, you know, this comes down to, you know, if the money was there for Otani and the money was there for Soto,

then where is the money? Now, it's different because it's the number of years, but on an AAV, if it's $47.5 million for Soto or $50 million, and they were in at that level, then where's the $50 million they had to spend for the other players available in the market? And if they're not spending it, not because they don't want to, it's because it might not still be available and it was exclusive for Soto or Otani. not because i don't want to because it might not still be available and it was exclusive for so door tiny that's very possible i think it's on the in particular i mean it's on the

represented something completely different so-to so-to to me though is one that is difficult to explain that you have the money for him but you can't spread it out throughout the rest of the lineup great player phenomenal player but not a tony

like not a tiny not judge. In terms of ticket selling, jersey selling, buzz creation, Soto just isn't on the same level. So if you had a green light to go up to 650, 680, 700, the idea that nothing else would be available to you seems very unreasonable. It doesn't seem like something an executive would suggest. And here's what I would say about the idea of them salvaging the offseason. If they've concluded Vlad is not a part of their program, they should have traded him two months ago, three months ago. Like that would have been one that sure the fan base would have freaked out a little bit, but at least he would have proven he had a plan you know if sheparna Atkins flipped him in November

and got all these different pieces and then attacked the offseason rigorously it would be different but now it just feels like they've missed that opportunity like they've they've it's just it's like a scramble now Steve and yeah you know sure they can salvage it there's still guys out there like you mentioned the big three right now in terms of bats Alonzo Bregman and Santander they're all 30 years old you know they're all they're all good players but you know it's if you get one of them and then Vlad and Bo walk at the end of the year what's that doing for your future what's the point right well to your point I, a reason, like that's very reasonable and understandable.

And so to think that their plan was to only keep Vlady for the year and that they didn't want to sign him doesn't make sense. So my sense is they probably do want to sign him. But you know, maybe there was a miscalculation on timing. Maybe there was, yeah, we want Vlad E, but we prefer Soto. And if we can only sign one, which is probably maybe what ownership thought, that we can't keep both these guys, so make a choice.

If you want Soto, let's go get Soto. Now the problem is that, and again, it makes, like when something seems like it's missing, it doesn't make sense, then there's something we don't understand. And because you're saying, if you wanted Soto, great. If you still want Vladi after you didn't get Soto and there's not a deal getting done

and the money should be there because you had the money there for Soto, then it may mean that Vlad E. doesn't want to sign. Right, that would be a reasonable explanation as to why a deal's not getting done, because clearly the money is gonna be less for Guerrero than it was for Soto, and if you had it for Soto, and you're not spending it on Guerrero,

it must mean that Guerrero doesn't really want to come back here. That would be a reasonable explanation. It's unclear, but it would be reasonable. So, you know, and so, you know, I think that you're right. If they didn't want to keep Vladi, they would have traded him. They would have, but they wanted to keep him

if they didn't get Soto, but the risk you run when you go after Soto and not Blatty is that Blatty says, why would I want to be your second choice? Right, emotion gets in there. And I get it. Emotion. Right, I get it.

I get it from his perspective. But you know, I also think that maybe they thought that he would be okay with it and maybe he's not. Or maybe they had money for both, right? Those are some of the things that we don't know those conversations. But if it's not or maybe they had money for both right? Those are some of the things that we don't know those conversations but if it's me I'm gonna sign bladdy if I have the money to sign them and if he wants to sign

Even if I have to go back to ownership and say look, you know what we miscalculated By by waiting it cost us an extra hundred billion now owners don't like that and it may put you in jeopardy But I still would want to sign them. Yep Well, we'll see we'll see if they end up in arbitration or not I guess we got a you know cross that bridge first before we get to anything else great catching up with you Steve We'll do it again soon. Thank you for this You bet guys. Thanks for having me on three Steve Phillips or a TSN baseball insider All right lot to unpack there. We'll continue to touch on Vlad E throughout the afternoon

We got the Knicks or sorry the Raptors coming off the Knicks loss last night in Cleveland tonight. So certainly not going to get easier for them. Jack Armstrong in the next hour. Mark Schleroth on wild card weekend coming up as well. Dave Fest, Joke of the Star, and here with me, I'm Ryan Hayes. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050N on the DSNF. travel and more. New year, new you. Explore it all at iHeartRadio.ca and on the free iHeartRadio app. All right, Mark Schiller is coming up. It sounds like Tyreek Hill. It's all good in Miami. Everything's fine. He sure he quit on the team in the fourth quarter the other night, but and then said after the game, Dave, I'm out. I'm done.

I've got to get out of here. Now it's all good again. It's amazing. Then put the Antonio Brown picture with Antonio Brown ripping off his gear as his profile pick on social media from what I understand. Other than that, everything's fine. Everything's fine. I saw Drew Rosenhouse was down in Miami.

He was on with McAfee today. He's animated and of course talking about Tyreek and everything's great and amazing and he's committed as you would expect, any agent always going to fall on the sword for his client. Why would Miami want him back is the question. If this guy quit on you and he's going to be a pain in the ass the rest of the way, assuming there's issues and the uncertainty with Tua, he's a out but he wasn't he wasn't cheap of this year wasn't great this year based on his own to the buffalo bills look at your division

rival in buffalo they've got all what are we gonna do without stephan dix who was a bit of a diva and why don't you know things to go well for stephan dix they've been okay with us to find a xd sure has been a been a bit more about the buffalo bills that was it was about Mr. Diggs. Absolutely. So I don't think that story's over. I'll believe it when I see Tyreek Hill as a Miami Dolphin week one next year. But Mark Shillereth will join us.

We'll get into wild card weekend with Mark. We'll break down the games, what he's looking at, and what he thinks could happen because underdogs every year, at least one, if not two, win outright. Right? Wild card weekend. so which games are the most likely to see an upset that more coming up with mark and jack armstrong on the raptors losing again at the garden last night and in action in cleveland tonight overdrive continues tsn 1050 soon to be up on tsn 2 tsm plus is taking game day to a whole new

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