OverDrive - OverDrive - July 15, 2025 - Hour 3

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

Join Bryan Hayes, Jonas Siegel, and Jason Strudwick for hour three of OverDrive! Dan Woike of The Athletic joined to discuss LeBron James’ future in LA. The guys then got into whether the Leafs are a better team without Mitch Marner on the roster.

Unmistakably Canadian. It's the music that raised you. The artists raising the bar. Hi, this is Bryan Adams. Hey, my name's Brett Emmons. I'm from the Glorious Sons. Hi, I'm Nellie Furtado. Made in Canada.

The station that champions Canadian music. Loud, proud, and all yours. No passports required. Just press play. Tap into Made in Canada now on iHeartRadio.ca or the free iHeartRadio app Final hour overdrive continues powered by FanDuel bringing you everything from the opening line of the final score Brian Hayes, Jonas Siegel Jason Strudwick confirmed with an eye a little bit later in the hour best bets later in the hour

Dan Wyke of the athletic coming up Jonas covers the Lakers and we'll get his take on like what's happening here with LeBron. What is he? What does he picture happening with LeBron James in his final season? We believe as a Laker he's got one year left on his deal. He had to opt in. So we'll catch up with Dan in just a moment. Get his take on that. The all star game going on tonight. We'll get the Open Championship starting on Thursday, which is great.

Scottie Scheffler getting very deep today. Can't find any satisfaction playing golf. Can't do it. It's a pretty wild scene, man. Like, I don't recall a guy of his status, like, clear-cut best player in his sport speaking on a level like that, like that deep. And like most guys are just more reserved they may think that way they just have no interest in opening up but Scottie he really he took it to heart and he made sure everyone knew where he stood it's kind of cool to see that I

appreciate that kind of candor me too like big-time not playing tough not like just being very matter of fact. I don't know why I want to win. Because once I win, it's great for like two minutes and then you move on. I bet the feeling of losing is just so much deeper than it is winning. I don't know. That's a good point. I think that some athletes, or a lot of athletes, the persona they project to the media and

the fans is different than who they are. I think Scottie Scheffler, if you met him at a diner, he'd be the same way. He'd talk the same way to you no matter where he is. And I get when guys have a different, a bit of a different persona, maybe a little edgier. I don't think Scottie's like that. I think he's genuine 100% of the time.

Yeah, it does seem that way. It's like anti-mamba mentality. Yeah. Yeah, and that's kind of like the's like anti-mamba mentality. Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of like the thing like when you bring up Tiger, like I don't think Tiger would ever think that way because Tiger to me, like Tiger Woods was programmed, yes, about winning himself, but also about killing everyone else. Yeah. Like it was an element of like nastiness almost.

Like I want to beat you and I want to embarrass you and I'm not your friend. I'm not going to smile at you. I don't want to be around you. The mama mentality. Same thing, Kobe even with his teammates. Like Michael Jordan gets credit for being incredibly difficult on his teammates because that was leadership. And yet at the same time the reason I think he gets that credit is because he was doing it. Like if he said we were running sprints, he wasn't sitting on the sideline and making BJ Armstrong. I mean MJ was wasn't he going to the casino until like 830 in the morning showing up for

shoot around? But he showed up and did it he always there he was always like by all accounts man he's a freaking nature like Jordan's just a different beast. Yes. I don't know how you could possibly be wired like that. He'd play golf, he'd be drinking, he'd be at casinos smoking cigars, and he's in the best shape. He's always at practice, he's always on time, he's always ready to play. Like that's just a different beast.

Yeah. I played with Brad May and he played with McGillinay in Buffalo, and I think it was the year that he scored, what did McGillinay score, 60-something? 76, 76. And he said that they'd go to a nice community, a nice city, and they have the morning skate, the year that he scored, what did McGillinley score? 67 goals or whatever. 76. 76. And he said that they'd go to a nice community, a nice city, and they have the morning skate and Almo, that was what Almo would call them, McGillinley would go golfing.

He'd play nine holes, have a couple hot dogs, play nine, like finish his 18 and come and he'd score goals. And the guys are like, maybe we'll go play golf. No, no, no. This guy's going to score whatever, 60, 70 goals this year. You go back and have a nap. What do you tell a guy that does it that you? There's nothing you can tell them. You can't as a coach say, you can't do that because he's delivering what you need from him. So I love that story. Can you imagine playing 18 holes, two hot dogs, maybe a Diet Coke, get back in the cab, go back, score two goals

and fly out to the next city? I couldn't even even in the men's league. I couldn't do that. I have such an appreciation for that. That there were there's and there still are some throwbacks, not many. Well, you know, who was like that here was Kessel. Yeah. Phil would. It was unbelievable. It was like practice would end and like, bang, he was gone. And it's like, he can do that. Nobody else can. But you would see other guys leave soon after

and it's like, probably shouldn't be leaving. Well, that was the rumor that him and Bozak, Bozak would stop going with him to the rink because Phil would be hitting McDonald's drive-through and Bozak's like, I can't do this anymore, man. And Phil's like, go ahead, find someone else to drive with. But he was just inn'm going lately gifted yeah and everything like they would say like he's an amazing golfer like yeah he's a stick man apparently he's a great golfer like just

an awesome awesome golfer it's like you would sit remember those games like even in Pittsburgh where he'd get back to the bench and it's just like this guy looks like he's huffing and huffing then he's go out there or break loose score 35 in the year Yeah, there's throwbacks man. There's still guys that are doing it You just I don't think they can promote it the way right it used to be promoted right starting like now it would be because Phil got criticized for that sure sense of

Unprofessionalism, but then you have like LeBron is like the way other end where it's like he's spending millions He earned his body and he look at him he's 41 I think. And yet it's working and it clearly worked for him throughout his career but you're right there are still guys out there that you know just don't they're not they're not working out that hard they're they're still hitting the bars when they hit the road. It's like those annoying kids when you're friends when you're a kid they didn't study for the test and then they just got a natural. They're like, what's wrong with you? How did you possibly pull that off?

Some people just have that natural ability. But you're right, LeBron would have the natural ability, but he's not wired that way. Although you see he's trying to get into golf, which that suggests to me, he realizes I'm about to retire. Once you become golf guy, you're telling the world, I might have a year left. Maybe two, maybe three. Here's a guy that's definitely got a better read on the future of LeBron than we do. He's a writer for the athletic. He's been covering the Lakers

in the LA sports scene for a long time. He's been on the show many times. It's always great to see him and have him back on. Here's Dan Wyke. How you doing, Dan? Guys, I felt like that that segue was perfect for me about the guy who doesn't take care of himself. I felt very seen. Absolutely man you're not alone. Especially after a week in Vegas guys. Oh my gosh. What is that scene like? I love that they have it in Vegas and now it's just it's a staple and I love how all the players want to be there too to quote unquote support the young players but I don't think they'd

be doing it if it was in Detroit right if it was somewhere else I'm not sure the other players are showing up yeah it's um it's a lot I would say like being there on the ground it's a lot. I would say like being there on the ground. It's a lot of fun. Um, and if you walk around like, uh, particularly like the wind hotel, right? It is sort of like one of the unofficial hubs and summer league and like you just sponsor. And I mean, like I remember one year a couple of years ago, like watching like coach K play like $20 hands of video poker, like seeing something like that. Like it's, it's that kind of a scene, right? Where you just sort of like inevitably bump into somebody interesting and have

an interesting conversation way too early in the morning or way too late at night, depending on your perspective. And it's really, really bad for your body and for your sleep and for your rhythms like yesterday. I was I was a mess like I I saw Austin Reeves and some of the Laker players in the back after the game he looked at me and he was just like he's like Dan have you been on a seven-day bender and I couldn't lie I just couldn't lie to him I said no yeah but that's I'm really

throwing yeah it was rough I'm home I'm on the other side of it guys everything's great. Perfect. Well, year two of Brawny James with Summer League, like, does that still pop? Like what, what is, what is, what kind of headlines come from Brawny James in year two? Yeah, really different ones. I think, you know, year one, right? Like it was, he doesn't belong here. He's only here because of his dad.

There was like a, either the people that were there were like way too excited, or the people that were against him were way too negative. Like there was no, no balance at all in sort of like what this player was or what this player can be. I think in year two, after a, you know, it really like was like mostly out of the spotlight

in Los Angeles, you know, considering everything else that happened with the Lakers, like the first month of the season was a big deal. But you know, by the time the fires happened and you know, the trade for Anthony David or the Luka Dacic trade and the playoff, I like, you know, it kind of really fades to the background in the story of the season.

I think, you know, hey, guys, guess what? Turns out Brian James got better. You know, you can watch the clips six to 10 last night, you know, playing at pace, playing with confidence with the ball in his hand. It was fun for me to hear him kind of go at it with like Jeremy Fears and like talk some trash and like find his voice and like, you know, have some confidence. Like, I think I

think that was it was encouraging. And yeah, people are still excited. People are still, you know, willing to go to extremes on him. But I think you you sit with scouts and, you know, now it's like the conversations about him have like started to center more on like, is there a world in which this guy can can play in the NBA and the jury's still out, you know, on that for sure. Like nobody feels like fully invested on that. I think in the people that I talked to, but undoubtedly people watch him and it's like he's viable. He's a viable bet. And I think that there is a there's more consensus on sort of like whether or not he

belongs to me in this position after a year of improvement than a year prior. Well, so Dan year one, obviously it was a bit awkward, I guess, with his dad. And now it feels like it's just going to get 10 times more awkward. Having some time like to think through all this stuff with LeBron, what do you think his actual motivation is? What is the aim here with everything that has been floating around? I mean, I think he wants the best situation possible, right? If I had to try to put myself inside his head. And I do think that there's just a level of uncertainty now in kind of where he is at this stage in his career that like, I mean, this is this is all unprecedented. Never before in league

history has there been a player in year 23 this good. Like, that's a fact that just hasn't happened. No one knows what to do with it. There's no playbook for it. Never has a player at this stage in his career, you know, never. I'm sorry. Never has there been someone who's been the main character the way LeBron James has been the main character, also found themselves now in a situation where the organization is saying, like, hey, by the way, like the next guy's here, like he's here. We got to look at our church like and it's not even personal. I haven't spoken to anybody around the NBA who thinks that the pivot to Luka Dacic or a Luka Dacic-led Lakers

team is a bad idea relative to the situation there. And LeBron James is going to be 41 years old in December. So it's just, I think, it's uncomfortable a little bit. And I think LeBron has wanted, wants to be in a competitive situation, wants the Lakers to be making moves that get them better in the short term. The Lakers are trying to take both a short term and long term approach and there's a little push pull there. So who has to make that move? Is it LeBron who's going to be vocal internally, tell them to continue to make those moves?

Or is it Lakers who say, hey, we know you're not gonna be here very much longer, maybe a year, whatever it is? Like who has to take that first step or does Lakers have to show some, you know, shake their pills a little bit and say, hey, we're going forward with this group. I mean, I think that it's one of those things that I think other people want them to say it, but it's just sort of unsaid. Like he's under contract, right? Like he opted into his contract. There have not been any credible trade discussions. There haven't been any other, like he's on the Lakers, right?

He was there for two games. He's interacting with people like that. That's the read on it. When I speak to people, like that's just sort of where it's at now. Would it be easier if there was some sort of summit or something like that where they were to kind of all sign off on the future of the organization?

Yeah, but I generally think guys that it's just a situation right now where, you know, this is a road that LeBron has walked before and when it comes to off seasons and trade deadlines and stuff like that, like asserting a little pressure on the teams that he's went there, sometimes a lot of pressure to improve. I will say like, I think the Lakers,

despite maybe not winning headlines this summer, I think they're better on paper in a couple different ways. And I think LeBron knows that. So I mean, I'm not currently expecting some, you know, great sort of show of like, I don't think he's gonna like do like a Superman meme meme or something like that and have like the Lakers Jersey on a person Instagram. I don't think that's gonna happen. I Think that it's just way more likely that we see him on media day in Los Angeles Like that just seems like the path this is going down with Dan Wyke of the athletics

So if I were to give you these two options LeBron James will will play the final game of his career in a Laker uniform or the field. Who will you take? Oh, that's such a good question and I hate you for asking it. I think it's a, it's just, that's a tough one. I think I would take the Lakers. I think. Beyond this year, it's hard to know.

It's just hard to know. I believe being around LeBron James since he's been in Los Angeles, I think he has surprised himself at how good he is able how good he's been this long right and I do sort of think it reminds me a little bit of like the Seinfeld episode where we're Kramer's in the car and they're gonna take it all the way down to E. They just want to just see like how fast the needle can go past the E and like no one really knows where it's gonna stop. There like there is an element to this right like like when I've talked to Lebron or when I've heard Lebron talk about retirement, it's basically been like when I'm not able, you know, physically

and mentally play the game at the level that I want to play it at. Well, like this dude was just all NBA second team a year ago. You know what I mean? Like for a month and a half, two months in the middle of the season, playing some of the best defensive basketball of his life. You know, the Lakers had the number one defense for like a real stretch of the season. And they did a lot of it with Anthony Davis, not on the team. They did some of it with Luca Dacic on the team.

And it was like it was because of LeBron. Now, his body maybe didn't respond to that. And that's why he had the groin injury late in the season. That's maybe, you know know related to why the knee injury haven't that was more fluky but like it could all be you know based on sort of load over time and things like that i i just it's it's just hard to know how much longer he can go and how much longer he wants to go and if he wanted to play three more years like i don't doubt that he could do it um do i think that there are three more max contracts waiting for him in Los

Angeles? I don't know. And I think that is very much to be determined based on the look at it. I guess that that is the direction the organization is going. It is going in a look at it direction. And if LeBron James next to look at it proves to make the most sense, then I think that's and he wants to keep playing and he wants to be in Los Angeles. Then I think that's the road that they would go down. Great question though I wish I had a better answer. No it's a great one and I mean I think you could look at it like the last game of this season and then the last game of his career like there's multiple layers to it in terms of trying to predict what's going to happen with LeBron and I'm curious you know in terms of his Laker legacy

like the Lakers are one of those you know handful of teams in American sports that have such a rich history of winning and superstardom and you know, when I think of them I think Kobe, I think Magic, I think Kareem and that's from afar. I'm in Toronto, I'm not from LA, I don't have any association with the city or the history of the fan base. So I'm curious, has LeBron cemented his legacy as a Laker or can he still move up? And if so, like where is he on the on the list of tiers in terms of like revered and great Lakers from a Lakers perspective, not like an objective NBA perspective? Sure, sure. It's really interesting. I mean, I think like, you know, the names you mentioned,

like particularly Magic and Kobe, right? Like they were only Lakers And very much like we're of the city I mean we saw the way Los Angeles responded to the tragedies that surrounded both of them both met Johnson retirement and Kobe Bryant's You know unfortunate and untimely death. I think You know when it comes to LeBron and sort of his place with the Lakers What's really interesting about it was that Still the majority of his career. He was a villain in LA because like he was the guy going up against Kobe Bryant in the Lakers

I Will throw a stat at you provided he plays With the Lakers this season. He'll have played there eight straight years, which is the longest single stretch He's been with an organization. Wow. In his career. He was seven. He was seven with Cleveland the first time around, I believe. So it's been a while here in Los Angeles, and he's played a lot of basketball for the

Lakers. Like, now time is crazy. Like everything after 2020 just feels like, you know, like, I don't know, simultaneously both 100 years ago and yesterday. And I think, you know, him winning his title, in a way, like he wasn't able to like stand in the middle of the Coliseum, like Kobe Bryant and hold up the trophy and have, you know, the adoration of the city poured on to him. You know, he didn't get that moment, because the championship came in the bubble. I think impacts maybe some of this stuff a little bit. My hunch is that it's it'll it'll just be the kind of thing that,

you know, like like most legacy conversations like 10, 15 years from now, I think we'll think very fondly of this time as a Laker. I think right now, as we're in it, it's much easier to look at, you know, the way Kobe and Magic and some of the lifelong Lakers and the ties they had with the fan base. Like, there is a thing, I love the story about kind of LeBron James and I always try to remember it, guys. I was covering the Chargers briefly here in Los Angeles and Derwin James had just been

drafted and he was in a press conference in the back kind of doing like the fake like basketball thing where he's like shooting an imaginary basketball. And I was trying to ingratiate with myself and I told him I'd covered the NBA and I asked him what his favorite team was. He said, Oh, my favorite team is LeBron James. And I think like that is a thing that exists in a real way. And so there are like kind of like two roads running with him in a way where I think more so with Kobe and certainly with Magic League, it was Laker fans, right? And this is some sort of

combination of the two. How long before you think it becomes Lucas Town? Is that next year, two years? That's a great question too. I think we're in store for a big Luka Dacic season. And there are things at play here that in LA, I think we're still sort of learning. We saw the way from afar, the way that Dallas and Luka Dacic sort of went together and the feelings and the emotions that poured out with him leaving. We've seen elements of it in LA as he started to, like he made a really big donation to fire recovery efforts. He paid for a Kobe Bryant mural to be restored. I think a really huge understated thing in here is he's a Spanish speaking, he speaks very fluent Spanish in

Los Angeles, which should be really exciting for the Lakers. They he speaks very fluent Spanish in Los Angeles, which, you know, should be really exciting for the Lakers have a very large Spanish speaking fan base to connect in that way. And like, I don't know, he's a magician, too, right? And the city that like fell in love with magic Johnson, like they're like, he would throw he throws passes and stuff that way. And apparently now like any like good LA person is like trimmed down really fast for like a big role. Like so like, it's like he's gotten in like movie star shape. So I think I think this is a really big year. And I think obviously though, the way to win over Los Angeles more than any other is winning. And I'm not totally sure

how close the Lakers are to a championship right now. That'll be the final step, but I think, you know, provided he signs his extension to some degree here later in the summer that like, you know, the seeds have been planted for a really strong relationship between a charismatic on court star and a city that loves those types of players. Yeah, the Lakers are always going to be in the middle of everything, man. Even up here we're talking about it mid-july but with Luca there LeBron with possibly one year left Brawny possibly making an impact on the team this season it sounds like it's going to be a pretty

captivating one for you and everyone that covers the team he is Dan Wyke of the Athletic always appreciate you finding time for us especially coming off Vegas thank you for doing that Dan. Guys since it was sobering for me I appreciate it I feel like I've regained I've had to turn my brain back on I feel like I've I've recalibrated a little bit I appreciate the opportunity to do so. Absolutely great seeing you thank you um there is Dan Wyke of the athletic. You know one thing I hate about Vegas I don't know if this is every hotel room but the last time I was there the hotel room didn't have coffee in it and you know when you go east to west and you just get up really really early and like I don't know about you guys

like I need coffee like right away and so I had to go down to like oh down to the Starbucks it hadn't opened yet I was there before it opened and I was just waiting for it to open and like a line suddenly formed. I was waiting there like 20 minutes for it to open and it's like, oh my God. That is outrageous. Like in Vegas of all places, you better have espresso available in the room.

And then you pay $8 for your coffee. Well, the coffee's down there. They can be more than that. It was 12 bucks last time. I haven't been in Vegas in six, seven years. It was like 12 bucks for a Pykros. Yes. Paul.

Yeah, crazy. What? Well, you don't have to buy an extra large. I mean, you could get a medium or a small, right? You do in Vegas. You do in Vegas, Rod. But seven days in Vegas. I could not imagine.

I did, I think, four, maybe five days. And I remember, it think, four, maybe five days. And I, I, I'm like, I remember it was, it was like Napoleon's army marching out of Russia to get to that airport. I was on my, I got on the plane. I think I was just, it was, I was sweating so much through my shirt and lays like, are you okay? I'm like, no, I'm not okay. I was in Vegas for too long. Like it's just outrageous. It's Amazing. I know he was probably working but she's it's too much and you know, you know, you're in bad shape And someone in Vegas is asking if you're okay Yeah, like if they're looking at you like whoa, dude, are you okay?

Like think about what people at the airport in Vegas have seen yes. How is that not a reality show? Just hanging around Vegas like departures in Vegas. That's that not a reality show? Just hanging around Vegas, like Departures in Vegas. That's the name of the show. Departures in Vegas, get it on A&E or something, get it on Crave, and just literally watch animals walk through there. And I probably would have started it last time I was there. Same thing, Strut. You walk, you have glasses on, you're like, you're just a disaster. You're dying to get get home and there's no short flights No, everyone leaving Vegas is flying for at least an hour or two minimum. Do you gamble at the gate? I?

Got you. I didn't cuz I'm like I just have to cut bait and stop. It's like being at a Like being at an embassy. I need to treat it as if I'm back in Toronto the step that when I get into that Airport, it's Pearson You know, I can't be in Vegas anymore, you know, you get dropped off and it's done. Yeah for me I get off the strip. You got it You can't be in Vegas anymore But the high point of your year is getting on that flight to Vegas and the energy and everyone's drinking And the low point of my year is getting on that flight and flying home. You're tired

You know, he got stuff to do and to get home. You're sweating in my case like it's awful. It's awful. It could not be a more polar experience. It's awful. Then flying in it doesn't matter what time. Drinks are flowing. People are in different seats. Everyone's having a great time and the flight home is just turn the lights off and don't bother me, please Let's forget what happened. I don't ever have to stuff what happened. That's just it is such a disaster. It's crazy No, it is crazy All right. We'll continue with some confirmed with deny including one on LeBron We'll get to our best bets though to come overdrive continues

TSN 1050 and on TSN to all right best bets powered by Fandu a little bit later in the hour on the All-Star Game tonight. And we got some more confirmed denies left in the tank that we'll get to here momentarily. Is there a big hockey confirmed deny that you can throw out on the fly, Jonas? Mid-July, is there anything hockey related? Because it just seems incredibly quiet and we're waiting for McDavid to sign an extension at some point possibly a trade but no one really knows who that's gonna be what it's gonna look like if it's actually gonna happen again there's work and then all of a sudden the league just shuts down and it feels like it's done yeah now tomorrow we're gonna get a we're gonna get the schedule released.

Which Struddy, I'm sure you're aware of this, Mitch Marner's return to Toronto, a lot of people are wondering when that's gonna be. That'll be a big topic tomorrow. It's the big one, Strud. It is, well, I guess how's he gonna be received? This is my thought from a distance. I think he was drafted by the team, he's from there.

I think he was a good leaf, really good leaf, one of the top ones in his time there. Then he chose to leave. I think it's hurt feelings. I think there'll be hurt feelings that he chose to leave. Did the fans acknowledge what he did as far as the player or acknowledge it more that he left and give him the boo? I don't know which way Toronto goes. They seem very forgiving people there in Toronto, but

What do you think boys? Yeah, it's the latter I mean, I think people are gonna which is kind of fascinating because you're right Strud a lot of people wanted him out and Yet are mad that he's out because he chose to leave. 100% Like a very kind of dark and vindictive attitude. Like they wanted Leaf fans, some Leaf fans, wanted the Leafs to go to him and say, you're out, you're done, you're leaving, and him begged to stay. But instead, both parties were like,

let's just wash our hands of this, and Leaf fans aren't happy with it. But it's deeper than that. I mean, it's nine years, it's the playoffs playoffs it's him not waving for the ranting in deal which he's totally entitled to but that's a part of the conversation which would be kind of wild like in this other universe where Miko ranting in is a maple leaf going in the next season they're a better team obviously well with him individually well we were talking about that yesterday Strud, like obviously on paper without Marner

the Leafs are a worse team. But how substantially worse in your opinion? How much, and is it guaranteed they're actually going to be a worse team when they play and they perform? Yeah, I know it's, and everyone always says it, but when you lose the best player in what was a trade, right? I know they added a couple other pieces, but they have a really talented, really talented player.

Now, I think he was trending in the right direction, continuing to work on his game. But I don't think they got full value back for me if you include the trade with Utah. So I don't know. I guess I'll ask you guys this. Do you think their bottom six is way better than it was last year? No, not right now. I mean, what if they really... Like Nicholas Watt is a better third line center than Max Domi. Well, and this time last year, Ryan Reeves was probably on the fourth line and Watt wasn't here. So even if you just flip those two out, and Scott Lottens here wasn't here last year yeah he had a

tough time it's like it's marginally better if at all like they still don't have any scoring like he can score a bit but they still have a lot of scoring throughout the lineup and they're losing a lot they have scoring throughout the lineup who Austin Matthews and William Nyal and or two of the five best obvious course is that the three guys is okay pretty substantial that the four guys aside yeah they didn't have secondary scoring for good chunks last year and then obviously in the playoffs they did not have that either at all mm-hmm well they did in the first round Domi scored better six bottom six forwards five didn't score at all. Well, they did in the first round. Domi scored, Bethoor scored. Of their six bottom, six forwards, five didn't score at all in the playoffs at all.

So now that team is losing Marner, they're worse. Like I know what you're saying. I understand they're worse on paper. Yes, of course they're worse on paper. But like, I think the way you just described that is a little bit misleading. Like, well, yeah, past, of of course past Matthews and obviously Willie and yeah Tavares and it's like okay well those guys are still on the team though. But you're taking a team that decided last year we're going to score a little bit less to try to be better defensively. They did score less. I think they were tied for seventh or eighth and now they're losing 102 point player whatever he is 25 to 30 goals every

year. They're losing him and they're losing his defense. I think that's the thing that's going to get lost. He's a really good defensive player, one of the best defensive players in the league. How does that affect them defensively? Yeah, it's going to hit them obviously. Are they going to be 108 points or whatever they had last year? I don't think so. I would take the under. I guess I say this, Harris, is that you lost those points from Marner and then is Tavarez gonna bang in 40 goals again? Yes that's another good question. But to

Hayes' point, Matthews I would bet bounces back. He's healthy. I don't know what he is. Yeah and then Tavarez obviously is the reduced cap hit. I think that's significant for him. So I don't think this is the finished product of what we're seeing here. I understand what they're trying to do and I think that I would have liked to have seen this done earlier and traded Marner for something two years ago, if that's what you chose to do to get a player. And that's not against Nick Wah.

I like him as a player. I do. No, but he's like a superstar for a bottom. Well, and that's not against Nick Waa. I like him as a player. I do. No, but he's like, it's like a superstar for like a bottom. Well, and it's a misleading. It's not really a trade. It's not really a trade. Like it was a sign of trade where... Yeah. But it's what you got back for a player that is way above where Nick Waa is as a player. But I mean, it's unfortunate for him. I don't think people will judge him for that, but

that's how it works. So I guess my point is if the top end isn't as good and if your body, we're not convinced they're better, that the bottom six is better, are they actually that much improved? Well, I think we'll still see as time goes by what happens and they can fit everything together and maybe like Scotty Lawton is better than he showed for sure. For sure he's better than having someone like Nick Wah who I'm sure that the coach is going to love in that lineup I think that'll help beef up that third line as well and just so if lot and Nick Waa can become Solid third and fourth centers. Okay now now you're maybe going somewhere here

Yeah, and I think that again on July 15th or whatever it is on paper Compared to last July 15th if you add Brandon Carlo Lotton, Waugh, I don't know enough about Michelli like I can't sit here and pretend as if I think he's a lock to be a 50 or 60 point guy but again I think now if you added if Marner was on that it would be exponentially better because he would be a part of it but I'm not convinced even on paper like in terms of depth they're much worse or different than they were last year like this

time last year. I think their issues are still the same as they were and they've gotten worse right like well we talked all about center ice like they need a second line center they didn't get a set like they're just running it back because they couldn't figure out a different way better third line center but a guy who was also a fourth line center in Vegas So now he's gonna be asked to do a bit more. Maybe not a lot more He played pretty good and I still think there's a chance he plays the wing at times on this team. Who's playing center? Well, they still have Lawton. They still have camp at this point. Don't me where is don't me playing. I don't know. Okay But they talked to the end of last season, they need more puck moving ability on their

defense. They haven't gotten it. That's why it's hard. Like it's July 15th, I don't want to cast judgment on their offseason, but so far it's just kind of... Sure. Yeah. But I guess where I'm coming from is like, where is your starting line?

Like, I sense, and you're not alone in this Jonas that it it you know it's like you're starting as if they were an 85 point team they weren't no like they won their division but they were 115 points and then they were 111 points and then they won their division last year yeah but never done that the team ahead but behind them got better yeah or the same or whatever you want to say right they got worse I think Tampa like don't forget about Tampa is Stan has had some great off season what have they done that's like the same team basically okay they don't lose anyone they didn't lose Kucharov okay well this is basically they lost their Kucharov no Mitch Martis not Nikita Kucharov come on Jonas okay is he

is he he's better than Gensel is he Braden yeah he's better than Gensel? Is he Braden? Yeah, he's better than Gensel. The point is like they lost Gensel. They lost the superstar and have not meaningfully replaced him. Like, sure. And they haven't really gotten better in places where we talked about they need to get better. Like, who's scoring more? Like you Matthews, you can say for sure. Who else? Like maybe?

Well, obviously, Michelli is a guy that they're planning on. Maybe. I mean, does Easton Cowan make the team? We don't have the answers on that but is it possible that he steps in as a soon-to-be 20 year old that makes an impact on the team? Possibly. They were in a tough spot but they also created a tough spot for themselves. Yes and we've reiterated all that kind of stuff. We all, I get it. I'm not, I'm not arguing that on paper they're better. What I'm saying is I, again, again, they've been a very good team for a long time.

One of the best teams in the league. Taking one player off a really good team is never going to collapse the franchise. And if the tone is, well, they're so much worse and they haven't done this and they haven't done that, I think, yes, that's a viewpoint you can have, but I don't think you're giving enough credit to the other stable pieces that they still have in place.

Like they have their two goalies, they have their six defensemen. Matthews is still here, Willie's still here, Nises here, Tavares is here. Like they're not Marner-Leves and now they're 72 points because of Marner. No, that's not how it's going to happen. But you're kind of intimating like that that's a possibility that they're really not. No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm intimating your viewpoints instead of a hundred and eight points They might be more like a hundred and point team and like so maybe they're not maybe they're not winning the division Maybe they're second or third which they've been before yeah, but they are work

Like I'm not intimate again in the playoffs 70 point 80 point 90 point team, but are they 105 point team? but how often does like I does, like Florida is the exception of the rule because like they actually are just a complete team that's just ready and they're as good as you can be. So like they've set a bar that's just unreasonable for anybody else, but how many other elite teams have like great off seasons?

Like I'm sure you could argue Vegas, Vegas would probably put their hands up because they brought Marner in. They'll probably say hey we had a really good team. Yeah. But like speak to Edmonton, Strud, like has Edmonton had some great off season? They didn't get a goalie. Exactly. No. Like it's just a challenge. Go ahead. Let me challenge you on Vegas. You bring in Marner, you lose Petra Angelo. Is that a good off season? Very good point. Great point.

And as a demon, I'm like, I think that one of the strengths of their team when they were winning was their D-Core. And now Petra Angelo, who was arguably their anchor or their best player, and Joens, you could maybe speak to that. I don't know how, yeah, Marner's a great player. I'd rather have Petra Angelo. All day in the playoffs for sure. And so, did they get better?

Yeah, more weapons maybe to play with Eichel, I get that. I don't know, Jonas, what do you see back there? That's the trade I wouldn't make if I was... Now they can't control this because Petrangelo got hurt. That's the thing, right? Yeah. And they also traded for Hanifin, was that two years ago? So like they added on their defense?

Like, I don't know. But when they won the cup, Petro was their number one defenseman. Sure. But they also, Theodore, like they have on their defense like I don't know but when they won the cup Petro was their number one defenseman sure But they also have theodore like they have a good defense like it's interesting though that you'll bet you can With Vegas, it's like nah, it's all good. Who cares about Patrangel? But the leaves I checked one has been to two finals in one one in like what those you're moving the goalpost though Okay, like the point he's making is a valid one like shouldn't they beicking? Like if you're panicking Toronto because Marner's not here, how are you supposed to, why wouldn't you react the same way if you're Vegas with Patrangelo? But you're saying so they lose Patrangelo but they add Marner. That's like a pretty close saw off in different positions, right? You're telling me I'm saying they lost

Marner and they added Juan Michelli. Sorry, but like that's a drop off. Yes. And like a pretty meaningful drop off. Like I know what you're saying is just one player, but it's like you're, it's a very important player, right? It is an important player. I feel like you're underselling Marner's importance. I'm not underselling the importance of Marner. I get what he represents during the regular season.

Yes. For sure. And I think that's also something to point out. During the regular season, I might take Marner over Patrangelo, but in the playoffs I'm not. And that's not just a Marner thing. And that's not even about Marner's performances. It's that number one defenseman's value is so crazy. The issues that they had in the playoffs tell me how they've fixed them. They're like marginally better at center in the third line. The same at now. Now their second line center

is going to be going to 35 year old season like that's we'll see what happens I'm not sure they I don't know if they have Jonas I don't think they have necessarily now if if Marner was the guy that was supposed to step up and never did I don't know if they've hurt their chances are they worse in playoff yeah but like he's still like as much as like the offense disappeared in the playoffs like he still was very good at defensively in all those. Was he in game five and game seven? He was Bob Ganey? But for the first half of that series like it's not like the Barkov line was like like that was like a kind of a soft. Okay, I guess that's the way to put it. It's hyper focused in a

team sport. It's difficult to do this for a team sport and especially in one game. But do you think in a game seven versus Florida tonight, they're actually much worse than they were on June 30th when Marner was still a Leaf? Yeah, because suddenly you're playing who's playing with Matthew. But does it matter the way Marner plays in those moments? It does, because even Marnerner if he's not contributing in them a superstar way offensively is still

very good offensively compared to matias michelle he had his absolute he has not been let alone the state of lorje on this fair but he just hasn't been and furthermore he's not physical he shies away and no i've that's nagar i've seen it like i know you're saying it's fair but the think the answer is they're not worse in that big moment Mitch Marner at 75% of what he is is still Significantly better than any of the other guys they have a hundred percent in video in playing video games in regular season games You're right

Got the not in a game seven. It's not a talent game in game seven. Okay. So who's better that they have in game seven? Well, at this point, I'm willing to bet on somebody else being better. Because all the players that you're talking about, it's the same players like otherwise, right? And that's the question. And I don't have an answer for it. I can't guarantee you that Nicholas Wawa will have a bigger impact in game seven. I don't know if he will or Michelli will.

Yeah. But I've got a good idea of what Mitch Marner was gonna be in a game 7 Okay, and like what about some of the other guys on the team like it wasn't just about such mark under percent valid a hundred percent But and I've been very critical of Matthews and Nylander and Tavara and Tavara's in the big moments hundred percent hundred percent But something had to change a hundred oh it was and that's why no question But you're it's worth the endeavor of seeing what if it's gonna be different I guess is my point. Yes, but the problem is like you need to have a I just wonder like what was the plan to move on Because like right now it is very incomplete. It's like you lose Marner and like what?

What's like you have a cap space? What are you doing with it? It's like maybe they'll make a trade I don't know what that trade looks like. Where does it take from? And I don't have that like if you're trading Brandon Carlo to get a forward and it's like suddenly your defenses were well That's an interesting question for you strud like would you would you? Considering the possibility the real the legit possibility that their offense is going to struggle more moving forward Would you? Take from a potential strength, which is you got six veteran defensemen under contract, or would you commit to that even

more? Would you go all in on goaltending and defense and mold your team a little bit differently? I would like to, and I'm not sure which one of you brought it up, but I don't know if you know, tell me. I'd like to see a better'm not sure which one of you brought it up, but I don't know if you know, tell me. I'd like to see a better puck move defenseman back there. So we'll go all the way back to where we started with Eric Carlson because moving the puck quick, getting it out of their zone is so important. And I know it's for traditionals, but I like a bit of more of a stay home guy besides someone

that moves the puck. Stay home guy, but you know, and stay at home has changed. That role has changed a bit. But who's feeding the puck up to these guys? Who's getting it up there? So look at Florida. There's D men that can all move that puck. They could transition. Yeah, they have some heavy guys, but Seth Jones isn't too bad. Ekblad, obviously, I forget on the top, the guy who plays with Ekblad all of a sudden. Forzine.

Yeah, Gustav Forzine. Well, Forzine. Yeah, Gustav Forzine. Thank you. You've got to move that puck up. When the winners all of a sudden, you know when their playoffs started going, when Klingberg came back in and he was moving the puck beside guys like Bouchard, beside others that can really move that puck and get it going, that's how you... People think you get speed through neutral zone with your forwards.

You do, but the demon have to get it to them and have to get out of their zone with speed and so I always use the word you turbo charge your offense with the demon or transition that puck quickly up the ice. I think the demon don't get enough credit. Well, we don't get enough credit for anything but in that moment if you're not getting it up to those forwards guys, it doesn't matter. So you're right. All those demon are capable solid defensemen.

Tell me the one that's explosive and moving that puck up the best was the best pass. Riley. I guess. Morgan. I was pretty crafty at it too. But yeah, and Ekman Larson is okay. Yeah, pretty good at it. But he also plays his offside and like, yeah, you're right. So yeah, and that's my concern for that group. And I said it last year, I believe on this show, like, I like that D D I like them but there's a piece or two missing in there. Yep so there you go they're an incomplete. I think the headline on TSN.Chay should be Hayes Leafs are better off. Better off without Mitch. Matthew's next. I'm willing this in all

honesty I'm willing I want to see them try something different. And now it's happening. Yeah, he forced them to. And it's in the best interest of both parties. Yes, that's the thing, like it was time. Yes, one of them had to go, to put it clearly and as succinctly as possible. You just would like to be at this point now, but it doesn't matter, still I-15, where you could be like, wow, they took that and now they're here but and and once they got to the end of the road it was very clear that wasn't

going to happen no i just they lost the power off season maneuvering totally and i think they tried they wanted they wanted to get in on guys i think they were in on eelers i think they were going to get in on sam bennett they were going to get in on guys brad marshad yeah they didn't get a chance to do it yeah like if they had gone marshand, even if the contract was insane, they'd be very well It'd be very very different. All right, best bets powered by Fandall coming up overdrive continues TSN 1050 and on TSN 2 All right Today's best bets are powered by Fandall make your picks and assemble a same game parlay and seconds on the Fandall sportsbook app

We had plus money on the American League. I'm taking it. They win every single year. Every year they win. Like, what is it? 11 in the last 12? Plus 110? I'm on the American League tonight. Tapping. All day tapping.

Bunt, drag bunt. Bag bun. Today's best bet's powered by Fandirl. The first inning means as much as the ninth when you bet baseball on the Fandirl Sportsbook app. Please play responsibly 19 plus Physically located in Ontario. All right. I think we accomplished a lot today. Yeah, I like where we're at So all the all-star game. Yeah, we got that figured out. Yeah, right. We know what's going on with LeBron. Yeah fix the leafs

I think we fixed the leafs. We got Carlson going to the Oilers. That makes too much sense, right courtesy of you strut I think you said that yeah No, I did not not say that I did not do not quote me on that okay maybe that wasn't you someone said that I'm sure at some point but people anyway and yeah people are saying people are saying so great seeing you guys thanks for doing this as always thanks to everyone behind the scenes for helping out we appreciate it everyone for tuning in today TV radio podcast web and of course up on YouTube live every hour of every show up On YouTube on TSN's YouTube page. We're out of here. Enjoy your evenings. Enjoy the games tonight. We're back tomorrow at 4 p.m We'll chat them the biggest songs in the world

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