OverDrive - OverDrive - July 20, 2026 - Hour 2 - Steven Caldwell/Keegan Matheson

Episode Date: July 20, 2026

Join Bryan Hayes, Jonas Siegel and Dave Feschuk for Hour 2 on OverDrive! TSN Soccer Analyst Steven Caldwell joins to discuss Spain’s victory over Argentina, whether Lionel Messi could return for another World Cup, and what’s next for Canada Soccer. MLB.com Blue Jays Reporter Keegan Matheson joins to tee up Toronto’s series against the Rays, Vladimir Guerrero Jr.’s offensive struggles, and Dylan Cease’s MVP worthy campaign. The guys wrap up with FanDuel Best Bets.

Hour 2 Overdrive continues, powered by Fanduil. Bring any more ways to play your game your way? We'll get into the Jays Race Series starting tonight. Keegan Matheson from the dome coming up in about a half an hour. Brian Hayes, Jonas Siegel, Dave Festchuk, and a man you have seen on TSN more than anybody else in the last six weeks, Stephen Caldwell. Thanks for having me, guys. And we got you back in here.

I'm back, I'm back, yeah. Just can't get out of this studio. No, it's, yeah, it's okay. It's been a great tournament, so it's lovely to be here and chat about it. That Vancouver set, man. I remember asking you when I saw you downtown, because I had heard news months ago that you're not going to believe what this thing looks like.

Was it Jackpool Plaza? How cool was that? Like with the background and just being in Vancouver for that long, it must have been really fun. Yeah, it was absolutely spectacular. It was just such a beautiful set. And obviously, it was outdoors as well, which is a nice thing you guys know

what it's like being in the studio consistently. If you're indoors and there's no natural light, after a few days it gets you. But you had the mountains in the back, You had the water, you had the seaplanes. And then as the tournament kind of went on at Jackpool Plaza, we started to get a crowd in front of us as well, which was really cool. It gave a great atmosphere to some of the games there, especially Mexico, a Columbia game there, a couple of other South American teams. Three, four thousand would come to the square, you know, to the plaza.

It was so good. And we had such a great time. Vancouver was a brilliant host. for every nation that was there. I know Canada played the two games there, but every nation was enjoying the city. It's such a beautiful city and a small footprint. So everybody was just crammed into that little 10 blocks,

you know, in and around Granville. It was fantastic. Yeah, it looked really great. I mean, our experience in Toronto, we were talking about the last hour. We had a blast here, of course. There were a lot of memories that came out of, you know, the World Cup. But what do you take from it now that we're through it?

now that you look back on it, like what will be the lasting kind of imprint for you? Well, I think about it first and foremost from a Canadian point of view, and I think we put on a tremendous show in Toronto and in Vancouver. I think back to what was it probably five weeks ago, when we were leaving Toronto after the Bosnia game. Kevin and I were getting the flight to Vancouver for the next day, and we were sort of looking at each other saying, can it be better than that? That was unbelievable.

We were a little apprehensive that Vancouver was going to feel the same way as it did in Toronto and we weren't disappointed it was magnificent in Vancouver as well first game that we had there Australia Turkey was fantastic it was half and half in that stadium and it was great atmosphere and then

Canada played Qatar of course which was a special game the goals rained in and Canada played so well and even that Switzerland game the way that the crowd was trying to suck that ball in at the end of the game so we're a little jealous when we watched Portugal Croatia we wanted to be back for that one yeah we watch

We watched it and we enjoyed it, but we were jealous that we weren't there in our kind of home city, but we had such a time in Vancouver. So the show that Canada put on really stands out to me, the way that we welcomed the world, and we showed how hospitable we are as a nation, but also how much we love the game of the football, soccer, whatever we want to call it. And I think that was the most important thing. And then I think a little thing to add to that was probably the performances of some of the smaller nations. We were expecting Norway to be pretty good, but they were incredible, really added to the tournament, beat Brazil, of course. Cape Verde.

Well, the story of the tournament for me, the way that they played as a team, and took Arjunctina so close in that knockout game. So there's so many stories, so many great games, and such a great experience to be part of. And yet, you know, the best seemed to always rise to the top in this tournament, right? There's never a fluke winner at the World Cup. And when you watched that game yesterday, like what was your level of surprise that Spain was as absolutely dominant as they were?

Not surprised actually Dave. I was hopeful that Argentina could put up a fight. Argentina had been my pick for probably a year now. Just thought they could have done it again. And I thought Messi still had the performances that we saw on them. So I thought with that experience and the know-how and, you know, the dark arts that they use, I thought they could go all the way because I knew they could win in different ways. but I underestimated how good Spain are

and I think they started slow they always start king to slow and they're not a great team against smaller nations they're better against the big boys because of their control and then watching them kind of develop through the knockouts

and obviously the way they beat Franz preparing for that final I had a lot of conversations with Kevin Luke and I'm like I just don't know how Spain can lose I just don't know how anybody can bring them down and that's how it turned out to be. Of course Arzotina, we're nowhere near the best and focused too much on spoiling the game. But if they had came out and played them, it might

have been 3 or 4-0. That's the reality. Spain are the most complete team in the world right now. They systematically defend, attack, control as a team and they brought their best football as the tournament progressed and that's always a good sign. The winners normally get better as it goes along and I think Spain did that. did you see it from Messi's perspective as he ran out of gas, ran into just a team he wasn't capable of breaking through with, his teammates didn't do enough to put him in a spot to succeed. Because I think a lot of people were waiting for that. As someone without a dog in a fight, I was kind of banking on a magical moment, especially with Mbapis scoring a couple of times a day before. You're like, all right, the goal in Buk.

And he didn't think he was going to score a hatcher again in the final. But when you see what happened like four years ago, that final was maybe the greatest game we've ever seen or close. to it. Yeah. What did you see at a messy that didn't allow them to pop yesterday?

Well, I think we've got to recognize that that final was a shock. That's not normal. Like four years ago. France Argentina, yeah.

That is like, that was the best final of all time. And normally these finals are really tight. There's not a lot in them. So we expected that kind of game. We knew that Argentina

were not in the place to come and play Spain and be open. So the game plan was actually quite good in the first half. But I think they had to at some point break,

out of that and try and be progressive and the opposite happened they get further and further back and I think a lot of that has to go to Spain because they do such a great job of keeping them in their defensive half Argentina and just giving them no outlets and Messi is outstanding he's special he's Mercurial but he needs the ball right he's not at a point now in his career where he can go get the ball and he can go and sort of run past four and five guys he's gonna get the ball in his key spots and he can still do the damage they couldn't get him the ball, Brian. He was just waiting and resting

and sort of hopeful that he would have his five minutes. To be honest, he'd had in a lot of the knockout games. He wasn't great for 90 minutes in any of the knockout games, but he had these little spell where he came alive. He couldn't get him the ball to do that. They had a little flurry at the end of the extra time, but just not enough there to take it through. And, yeah, the best team won.

Do you think he's done, or could we see Messi in four years? 43 playing in a World Cup He walks around for 90% of the match I know And it's in Argentina At least the opening game four years from now If it wasn't messy I'd say

Not a chance Absolutely ridiculous But he is ridiculous He's someone that does The extraordinary So could he Yes He could

I don't know if he's got the appetite for it He looked really broken after the game We saw him crying on the pitch Did seem like a farewell to it just his face but he said that in the past he was in that stadium 10 years before

after a COP of America final where he lost on penalties and he retired and he quit and he thought he had enough and he came back

and he's had so much success in saying so I think he did the right thing nothing too drastic just wait and see have a break see how he feels I think if he does

feel good enough and he thinks he's got someone else to say at international level we might see him in the COP of America in two years time and he'll make

commit to that we'll know he'll play in that and then if he feels good and it goes well, then he might push for another two. But I think highly unlikely that he tries to get to the next World Cup in 2030. I mean, four years is a long time. It's a long time. Weren't we talking about it at the last World Cup?

Is he going to play at the next World Cup? Absolutely. But can I ask, were you surprised that he had the impact that he had? Like to that degree, where, like you would say, he's the best player in the tournament? Yeah, well, the difficult thing is, yes, he does have that king of impact, but at MLS. so you're thinking can he translate that to the best football in the world to the World Cup

and I think there was a doubt that he had the pace still and he had the ability to go past people at that high high level but he done it he done it in the first game and you're like all right he still got it at this level yes it was Algeria but I think that gave him a lot of confidence because I think he's a player that I mean he's like superhuman isn't he he sees ahead of what's coming it's someone that his teammates have said this in the past he knows when they're going to win and when they're going to lose that they've had that feeling with him in the past

and I think he saw that he could impact games he saw that he could kind of rest and walk and do all the things that you're talking about Brian and then be magical for five, ten minutes and he's done it he's still so good can he keep that up for four years? It seems unlikely. Stephen Caldwell and Studio so what I have learned being in this business

is the goat conversation is always turning over right now he's got it but the next generation's going to have their moment and a lot of it is media driven right there's a 25 year old football podcaster in Europe who's like I didn't get to live the messy years or Rinaldo years I'm here for

the Laminumal years or I'm here for the Mbapé years like let's say it is it for Messi and Rinaldo's done and Maudrich is done like of the guys who we saw this World Cup and even the last or the euros a couple years ago when Laminia Moll showed up which guy

would you pinpoint us, okay, that guy could, he's going to be chasing that goat status the next seven, eight, ten years? I think you could legitimately say that killing Mbapé and Laminemal are chasing that. Like they got to do a lot understandably, a ton. But look at how much

Mbapes scored in two of the Cups. I mean, if we're judging on World Cups, Mbapé, it's probably going to surpass Messey. Does he surpass Pelly, Maradoni even, just with that one 86 performance. I don't know, but you've got to do more than that.

You know, to be the best of all time, you know, in multiple champions leagues, you know, in five, six, seven, eight, La Liga's. You've got to go to another league, maybe, and go win there as well, you know, and you've got to do it for 20 years. So, and Abapy's done it for a while now, to be fair to him, and he's still at an incredibly high level. He's still getting better. He was, for me, the best player of this tournament.

If you take it on, you know, just kind of spectacular performances throughout. but they've got a long way to go to be Messi and I don't think we'll ever see that same understanding the game, that same intuition, that same sort of fear factor that Messi creates when he gets the ball. I think there'll be outstanding players. I think they'll rack up some incredible numbers, but I don't think they'll have longevity,

and I don't think they'll strike fear into players like Messi did. Well, the reality is there may be a 10-year-old somewhere that we don't know of. Yeah. And that's the guy. Yeah. Right? And I was thinking Brazil who had a really, like, they barely existed in the tournament. Yeah.

You know, and they didn't have that flair. They didn't have those, you know, guys that we've seen in the past. But that's the reality that there could be a kid out there that's coming that's not even here yet. Stephen Caldwell in studio. Stephen, there's always a copycat aspect to sports right at the highest level. I'm wondering, like, when you watch that Spain team just crush everybody in the way they did, Are there lessons that other coaches and other developmental heads of sport in other nations are taking from that? I mean, what made them so good in your mind?

Yeah, I had this very conversation about three years ago, Dave, with a friend of mine about their style and their identity and why aren't people copycatting that? Why aren't they sort of replicating what they've done? It's a great question, but I think what they have is a national identity, right? the team represents the people they play in a style that's been developed over at least 25, 30 years. I say Guardioli

had a big part in that. Obviously his generation of Spanish, Barcelona players were pivotal to their success in 08, 10, 12 and they lured their way a little bit but they still had that identity they were still producing players of the highest quality. U-21s

they're always in the hunt for European championships and at youth level world cups and so So there's a conveyor belt, right, a talent that's coming through. So doing someone at the young ages that creates what I call ball mastery, real technical superiority over everyone else. So then that allows you to go play a type of football that they play, which is possession-based, which is triangles and movement and understanding in the game,

not just an attack, but defensively as well, to protect goalkeepers and backlines and to limit shots at your goal, you know. So the one overarching word that describes Spain is control. They just control the game throughout and they stick to their identity. So can we replicate that as example, Canada? I don't think we should say, oh, let's just be Spain.

But I think we've got to understand what is our national identity and what could that football look like? And then how do we try and infiltrate that for six-year-olds right the way through to the men's and women's national team? That would be the key. And that is not an easy thing to do, but it's coming up with a plan, a document, whatever it may be that says, this is who we are, this is what our strengths are as a nation, this is what can athletes we develop, and this is, you know, playing in our diversity as an example, we have athleticism.

Maybe we can come up with a brand of football that suits our style and then just stick to it. England's a great example. They change all the time. They want to play possession. They never really do that well. Then they'll play a bit more direct. They never really commit to that. They never commit to a style of play long enough to see the success.

Spain have committed to the style of play for 30 or 40 years, and they've reaped a lot of success. So in terms of what Jesse Marsh can take from this tournament and apply to the future, what do you think that would be? What did he learn about this experience that allows you to prepare for four years from now, presuming we make the next World Cup, where we can go further than the round of 16? I think he probably learned that the very minor details are what matter at the highest level. Take the Morocco game, maybe there was five or six chances in the match. Canada had two or three, they had two or three.

They scored two, Canada scored zero. Or three in the end. They got that third goal, which I always forget about. But they were clinical when it mattered, and they sort of got through the difficult spell. So it's just understanding that at the highest level, moments in the match really matter. Is that an experienced thing or is that a quality thing? Is that trying to put our athletes in more pressurized situations, whether it be the full national team or through the levels, as I said,

if you're competing at that high level through the youth ranks, then you get a better understanding of what it's going to be like when you get to the full level. So I think we're kind of close. I think we did really well. But I think we've got to demand more. I think Jesse will ramp it up. He'll demand more for these guys.

they will demand that they go back to their clubs and that they push themselves even further. That Sileba gets that move, that next move to whatever, English Premier League, higher team, higher level, you know, and tests himself and then becomes a regular there that Tejohn Buchanan can fix the little things in his game that are maybe missing a little bit and get to the next level.

So these guys got to want more, they've got to be hungrier for the little taste that they got, a little bit in Qatar some of them, and then again in the Home World Cup, and say, well, what can I do? in four years time. I've age on my side. I can be even better in four years and I can bring that for the collective.

So I think we did extremely well. I think last 16 was probably as much as we're hoping for. We're being realistic. Yeah. I think maybe we surpassed it because I thought we'd get one knockout game and then we were hoping that the draw was good to us, which it was, we were better in South Africa. We should have been

better than South Africa. They won the games they were supposed to win. Exactly. And we looked back at it Switzerland and in Morocco are two sides that are better than Canada. How do we get to that kind of, I call it maybe like second tier of international football, real top teams, but not the teams that can win it. We've got a chance to bridge in that gap in four years,

but we've got to do a lot of work to get there. So what role does Alfonso Davies have to play in that? Well, he's going to be a little selfish and get himself right. He's going to get his body right. He's going to figure out what's going on, what's breaking down in his body. an ACL is a big injury still I think we've diminished what an ACL injury is

in soccer in the last few years because guys always come back for it from it but when they come back they take about a year to be up to full speed we'll look at Rodry he's not had a great season Rodry he was in and at the Man City side he was injured again

he reoccurbed with a hamstring or something like that like Alfonso and then he just about his timing was good enough that when he got to the World Cup he was the best version of himself, player of the tournament. So Alfonso was probably still another, you know, sort of six months away for being at his best, but he's got to get back to that level. He's going to be at his best,

and he's got to, again, ask himself some tough questions, what am I willing to sacrifice to push my game, to be even better, to stay at the top, to continue to be a starting player in Bayern Munich or Chelsea or wherever he wants to go. And we need him to be that good because he's the one that, is special. He's the one that can drive the rest on and I think he's going to be a little selfish to get back to his very best. Do you get the impression him and Jesse Marsh or anywhere

close to being on the same page? It doesn't feel like it right now. I think there was sort of, I think Jesse Marsh handled a lot of the media poorly at this World Cup. I think the way that he was keeping things for the media and I understand what his point was but the way he did that I don't think was the right way to go about it. I think on the field he did very well. I think the way that he put the lads out and the teams that he chose was right for Canada. But I think in other ways there's things that he could learn from this whole experience as well. And the whole debate around as Alfonso fit, is he not?

The conflicting messages for Alfonso to Jesse. That could have been, sorry, that could have been talked about, I think. So I don't think they have the strongest relationship and I think there's a lot of work to be done there. from both of them if they want to be successful. So I'm hoping that they have a lot of meetings in Europe, that they get to know each other better, that they get to understand each other in a way that helps the nation because they both have healthy egos, let's be honest,

and they've got to come together for the nation, understand that them being as one, and certainly on the same page as you said, Brian, is better for Canada. Big time. Yeah, big time. Stephen Caldwell in studio. Go ahead, Dave. The most important question, we buried the lead. there were a lot of the soccer purists, Stephen, who railed against the idea of a halftime show.

Yeah. And yet, they had one. It was great. What did you think? I loved it. It was great. Kevin was slagging me the whole time. He hates it.

But he's miserable, in he? The purists were not overly ecstatic about a lot of things, right? The hydration breaks, 48 teams. The hydration breaks have changed the game, for sure. Another coaching period. It changed momentum. I'm not so happy about them.

But a half-team show was fine. Kevin had these stopwatch on his phone and I'm like, behave. It's the final. It was 25 minutes. It's normally 15. The teams are slow to come out. Could be 18.

What is 7 minutes? It was not a Super Bowl halftime, right? It was shorter. I thought it was great. It was fun. It brings in another audience. Shame the game was not the best, but they watch a bit of the game.

They love football. They become fans. It brings in a different audience. And I thought it added a bit of aromatized to a North America. in World Cops, what you would expect. Yeah, exactly. That's what you will see if it continues in four years. You think we're moving towards 64 teams?

Yeah, we are going to end up there. Yeah. I mean, again, the purists are going to hate it. I understand that. But the reality is FIFA, much like the NFL, they know people are going to watch, people are going to pay for it. And ultimately, once that becomes the norm, 30 years from now, no one's going to remember when there were 32 teams.

I tell me why I think it'll help, though, because the worst part of the 48 teams was the third games. The jeopardy had gone because they could work out how they would play and what they needed. So there's a lot of really dull third games in the group, sorry, in terms of who would get that third place team. So 64 makes it simple. It's two feet's group goes through and it gets it back to that hopefully heavier competition,

although there's a dilution of the quality. But some of the lesser teams did pretty well. So I don't mind it. I think it will be okay. And the cream will still rise to the deal. It will always will. The round of 32 was brilliant. Some great games.

And everyone thought, oh, the favorites will breeze passed whoever they play. But there was a bit of jeopardy in that round of 32 that I think was a success. And I think, you know, some of the performances from teams that we expected to just get blown away like Cape Verde, Congo, was excellent. You know, so, yeah, I'll be interested to see how they divide that. know, do they try and be fair again and allowing more Asian teams as an example and more Australian teams, you know, or do they kind of favor common ball and in Europe, UFO, of course. That'll be interesting. Yeah.

I mean, I think history would say you probably should allow for more European teams because that's where the money is and that, but they know they're going to be watching anyway. Yeah. That's the reality of what I think Intentino is doing here. I got to get more countries involved. Yeah. Because we've got Europe. It's done.

They're watching. They're in. Yeah, I know. They're doing it. Six of the eight quarter finalists for European. Yeah. So I think that was probably not a great sign for FIFA, sorry, that there was a lot of European teams. But what are you going to do?

Like, they're the best teams. They're the best. So if it is 64, get more of the minute, get more South American teams in it. I think, I actually think, and this is a bit of hot take, but I actually think that they might come up with some kind of playoff system that is in Mark. before the World Cup or something like that where that is a little mini tournament and then you can kind of pack that with let's say eight European teams and eight

the rest of the world and then it's kind of a bit of a free for all and you see what four or six go through from that you know so I actually think they might come up with someone like that like a playing or something. There's another money making thing as well and they go to Qatar or Dubai or somewhere and play it you know

in the end money's funny talks man and they know how to make it their credit you can laugh at it but they're making money they know what they're doing. All right, Stephen. Well, phenomenal job. Like you and everyone involved, it was absolutely incredible to watch,

and it's too bad it's over. You can't believe it's over. I saw you downtown six weeks ago. Just getting started. It's amazing. Yesterday. Yeah, it's great fun. We are great fun.

And, yeah, you can't happen with a casting crew and people in the background that make it so special. You guys know that. So, big thanks to everyone involved. We put on a great show. We put a lot of work in. everyone involved. So yeah, what an experience and we'll take it forward and we'll look forward

to the next time. Can't wait. Absolutely. Great seeing you, Stephen. Thanks for coming in. There is. Stephen Caldwell joining us here in studio. We got Keegan Matheson coming up. Overdrive continues up on YouTube live. I'm Cynthia Lois and I'm Josie Dye. And we're done pretending we have it all figured out. Each week we laugh, cry and talk our way through life's messiest moments. The things you think about but would never say out loud. The questions you are always too shy to ask. relationships, regrets, awkward moments, and the stuff no one warns you about. It's honest, it's funny, and sometimes it gets a little uncomfortable. But that's kind of the point.

This is Cynthia and Josie's unmentionables. Listen on the free Iheart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Best Betts coming up later in the hour. Egan Matheson will join us in a moment. Can we get into this quickly, Jonas? Like, this is such a Jonas comment. I've known you for 20 years. Oh, man.

I'm not even surprised anymore, Dave. No. Because we were talking about your summer plans. He said you just got back from Italy. You had a blast. You go over there a lot. Asked you, did you fly into Rome? He said yes.

Then you proceeded to say, I'm not much of a Rome guy. Not my favorite place. Don't love it. First time I've ever heard anyone say that. But I'm not surprised. I like off the beat your pass more stuff. How can you not like Rome?

Again, I was there, like I told you, I was there for like half a day. And I was like just off a flight. And I had like a half a day just like explore. Enough to. And it was 5,000 degrees. And I don't like all the two. It was cool. It just felt like I was in a museum.

Well, that's kind of what it is. I like what's not amazing about that. I don't know. Like, again, I liked it. I didn't love it. Okay. That's fine. But some of the shocking, but it's not coming from you.

To your point, like when you see the Trevi Founders, like, oh my God. Yeah. Spanish steps. Yeah. The Vatican. Did you get to the Vatican? I did not. See, that's a big one.

You got to go to the... You got to do the Vatican. I don't like crowds either. That's a problem. That's a problem. Rome. Like I understand that. Rome would not be a great place.

And you know what the thing is, when you go to places where no one speaks English, and then I came back to Rome and everybody's like speaking English, it kind of takes you out of it a little bit. Oh, okay. I was like, so cultured in the country side. What, you speak Italian?

I've been trying to learn a little bit. Have you? Okay. How's it going? All right. You're getting there. One Rome pit stop at a time. Anti-Rome,

not a Rome guy. Not a Rome guy. Wow. You might be the only one. Yeah, that's probably the greatest city on the planet. You know what I saw last night? Kegan's going to join me in a moment,

or us in a moment. I want to ask about this. I've been playing slow pitch baseball and I thought of you. Dude, try a drag bun. You couldn't do it. You couldn't do it. it. You wouldn't get on. I'm not fast. Throw you out. I don't think I have the

dexterity to pull it off. Last night, there was an open base. He was man on second. I was on second, man on third. An intentional walk and slow pitch. Wow. Who was the slugger? It wasn't you. Well, he was a ringer,

actually. Okay. Yeah, there was a ringer that we brought in from another team who is like kind of the superstar of the league. But absurd behavior to give a free pass to a guy in slow pitch. By the way, you enraged Joe from the bridge that you don't like Rome on the group chat. Anything Italian, though, Joe from the bridge takes personally.

I love Italy. I love Italy. You have to love everything Italy, according to Joe from the bridge. Hopefully they can get into the next World Cup. It's a big Rome guy. Well, 64 teams, you never know. Anything's possible. Maybe the Jays can catch a heater starting tonight with Tampa and Town.

Let's head down on the dome. Here's Keegan Matheson from MLB.com. What a beautiful look. What's up, Kagan. How are we feeling down there? Bonjourno, my friends. I want to support Jonas here, guys. I could hate winning the lottery if there's a big crowd and the temperature's wrong, okay? So I understand it. I respected fellas. But listen, this slow pitch walk, though, no, Bueno. Isn't that crazy? We can't have that. That's got to be an automatic. An automatic walk, an intentional walk in slow pitch softball should be two bases.

I know you guys were excited to litigate the rules of slow. pitch softball. You're on overdrive today, but come on, you can't live your life and cowardice on the slow pitch softball field. I totally agree. And here's the thing. First pitch was 9.45 last night. So this happened at like 10.30 on Sunday night.

That's crazy. And we're like game planning. Okay, we're going to walk this guy. We like the idea of possibly getting the next guy out. No one pulls off double plays. No one can catch anything. No one can do anything. We all stink. But anyway, it happened, and we won the ball game last night. You guys have an analytics director down

I know. It seems like that could be happening at some point, you know, in the future in the slow pitch league that I play in. All right, Keegan, give us a vibe check. Game 100 tonight. I can't say it was exactly an inspiring effort coming out of the All-Star break. They're now four and a half games back of that third wild card spot. Camp in town tonight. What are the vibes like around the clubhouse this afternoon? Not great here, fellas. I mean, coming out of the break, the Blue Jays needed to show something different. show energy and it's hard to do in baseball because frankly you can't go out and hit anyone okay you can't play harder you can't try harder it's hard to prove that it's hard to find energy in this game but that was not what it looks like that one-nothing win because a ground ball snuck through the

middle that's not even that encouraging at this point that getting shut out in the last one losing to the white socks the rays are one hell of a team guys and the blue jays need to bear minimum split this series but if you drop three of these four games we're talking about it team that's going to be nine games below 500. And I think it's very obvious what direction this entire conversation will go in at that point. The energy guys is the exact same as it's been all year, which is not great. Yeah, and that's, again, not surprising. We're about to play Game 100 tonight. You know, we're talking about a last hour, Kagan, that if you've been watching the team play

like we all have, this is not surprising. It's the same issues that have plagued them all year. and you know Schneider I feel like he's still John's like dancing a little bit here because he doesn't want to panic but he knows he should be panicking you know like he's like well we're running out of time but I also want everyone to relax

I don't see how you can possibly kind of marry the two Kegan like for me the relaxing let's just play ball type of attitude I'm not sure how that's applicable anymore considering you know how much time they've wasted and how deep of a hole they've dug themselves right now. Yeah, it doesn't work that way. And John Schneider is good at talking his way through that.

I think that's a skill, and he's got it. But at this point of the year, you don't want to say this is the series. You don't want to say we have to win these series. Because if you don't, then you're standing in front of me three days later, and I'm asking you if the season's over. You don't want to set that expectation, but you need to live in reality, and the reality is not good right now. The Blue Jays need to be winning just about every series the rest of the season. And the they're playing some really good baseball teams, which is not something that they have been this year. So the urgency and the pressure involved in this guys, it's like I mentioned earlier, you can't just go out and give 200%. You'll look stupid if you try too hard out here, but you need to be hitting for power.

You need to be doing it differently. This whole thing needs to look differently. And what's happened so far is 100 games of the exact same story over and over again, which I know because I've tried to write the exact same story over and over again. And fellas, it's not going well. I'm running out of thesaurus pages down here. It's been the same game, same offense, same performance. Something's got to break them up.

Something needs to shake them out of this. Vlad is the obvious answer. He's the easy answer. But it's got to be anything at all. Well, Keene, you were in here a couple days ago before the break was over. And you had a great list of five things that needed to change, if anything was going to change in the stretch run here. And one of them was you wanted to see an angrier version of Vladiguro Jr.

Three games in, you know, is there any sign of that? A little bit. That big double off the wall the other day was exciting. It was a ball in the air that was not hit to right field. So that's a start. Guys, we are in game 100 and Vladdy has not hit a home run in the stadium. I know that this has been the year of can you believe Vladdy Blank. I can't believe that.

Like, I really cannot believe we're standing here late July, and Vladdy's not hit a home run out of this ballpark. Because we're standing right in the same stadium where he did such incredible things last October. Against the Mariners, against the Yankees, against the Dodgers. That player still exists. He's still right there across the diamond behind me. Nothing has happened. Nothing has changed with him, but he's not getting that talent out of himself right now. I don't understand it.

If Vladie or the hitting coaches or anyone had the answer would have happened by now, That's the frustrating part. But you need to see that aggression from him. You need to see that healthy frustration and a hitter who's fed up because this is Vladdy's team. This is his organization. And guys, if we are two months from now talking to the Blue Jays as they pack up their lockers before the postseason starts for everyone else, it's going to be Vladdy who's asked about all of this. And it's going to be him who has to live the offseason, which might be a long off season with this taste in his mouth, guys.

Hasn't been pretty. And again, game 100. No home runs here. I can't believe it. What is the question though, Kagan, like, I'm sure you're thinking about this all the time. What is the question with Vladie that you're asking yourself about the situation? Yeah, Jonas, for me it's why the swing does not look as explosive and aggressive as it did last year. Like everyone can imagine those great Vladdy swings where his hips and his body flip open so violently.

And that's where his power comes from. Like think of Jose Bautista. Jose Bautista is not 6'2.80, okay? He's a smaller built guy, but his body would uncoil, and it's the power that you create from your hips and from your core. That's where it lives. We're not seeing that from Vladdy right now. You're seeing him shoot the ball to right field a lot, which is just all arms.

He's shooting the ball, kind of like you do in softball. If you see somebody playing right field who sucks at softball, you think I'm going to shoot a ball their way. Vladdy is letting that swing go right now, where he's guiding it out to right field. That doesn't work. That's okay if you are 5'8-160. Vladdy ain't that guy. Okay, he needs to be absolutely unleashing on balls.

And if that means that you end up missing and swinging through strike one and looking a little silly, whatever. I'll take that. You need to take some risks if you're Vladdy, but I haven't seen that explosiveness. I haven't seen his hips fly open and that big, aggressive, risky swing. You've got to take some risks right now. If it backfires, whatever. You weren't in a playoff spot anyways. You need to take some risks right now.

With Keegan Matheson. So another night where Ernie Clement will lead off tonight, Alejandro Kirk will hit seventh tonight. How long of Elish do you see that having in terms of Clement being the leadoff guy? Do you think that's just going to be the case the rest of the year? And Kirk, you know, we're well aware of what he's doing at the plate. But him hitting that deep in the lineup is not something I think anyone saw coming when we started this season. No, the Kirkman's worrying for me, guys. Ernie Clement and leadoff, I like it.

have a guy who puts the ball in play, someone who is a graph. I like Ernie's approach, and if you put Ernie's approach in some of these other hitters, I think this goes a lot better. But Alejandro Kirk coming back from that fractured thumb guy, when you look back through the history of players who have come back through fractures in their thumb, I'm saying that like it's a fun thing to do, okay? I just don't have much else to do. But when you look at hitters who come back from fractures in their hands,

the power isn't there. It takes another year for that power to come all the way back, because you're talking about the hand muscles, the wrist muscles, that are still for a month, maybe while they're immobilized. That doesn't always come back. The throwing is another thing. We've seen that be a bit of an issue with Kirk. But the power isn't quite there.

Now, Kirk is not a 30 home run hitter, but he's a 12 or 15 home run hitter who needs to be hitting line drives. We know he's not going to beat out a single ground ball, and that's okay. He's a contact machine. But the contact needs to go somewhere, and I don't see the strength. That natural strength in him right now, and it's something that unfortunately takes a little while to come back. Look, in 13 games between now and the August 3rd trade deadline,

Hayes was pointing out a really interesting scenario about the future with this team, is that whatever this season becomes, and obviously it looks like it's becoming something that you'd rather forget. There's a lot of uncertainty in the air with this team with the pending unrestricted free agents of George Springer and Kevin Goss, and Max Scherzer and Shane Beebe or in Dalton Varsho and it's a long list of guys who are core pieces here. Can you foresee a trade deadline sort of strategy

where they attempt to look ahead and say, okay, this year is done, but we got to get back to competitive as quickly as possible next year and we're going to have holes to fill. I mean, could you see that sort of being their trade deadline philosophy at this point? Absolutely. And I like that idea. Treat the trade deadline as an early. access window to the offseason.

Get out there and see what's available because the Blue Jays have money and they have prospects. They can do whatever you want. You're not going to go out and trade for Shoay Otani, but they have enough prospects to do whatever they want at this point. And being able to take on money is a major advantage in this market, especially

if there is labor uncertainty ahead. That could cause some other teams to be a bit more conservative. The Blue Jays just keep proving to us that they can spend money. I'm looking around in a sellout crowd here guys every single night on Mondays and Tuesdays. There's money coming through this building. So the Blue Jays, I think, would be very wise to get out ahead of that. This is not a rebuild. This is not a step back. They're going to try to win next year.

And they're going to spend a heck of a lot of money next year. So I don't think that going out and acquiring an 18-year-old in Sing the Layball is going to help or excite anyone, unless they're the next big Vladdy. I don't know. But I think that going for older, more mature prospects is one play, or going out and buying. Even if you don't think it's to make a run this year, go out and find a pitcher who has two or three years of control left. Go out and find a center fielder for next year and beyond. Those things could be available on this market

and springboard into something. I really like that idea. I like that aggressive thinking. And if anything's out there, I think the Blue Jays are set up as well as anybody to get in on that. With Keegan Matheson, Jay's race tonight where Dylan Cease will be on the mound post-all-Star break, post-making

that start at the All-Star game for the American League. And you know, it's a strange kind of dichotical me where again there's some dark clouds over this team and a lot of uncertainty about what could happen between now the trade deadline yet Dylan sees you know depending on what book you look at

he's the favorite to win the Cy Young this year in the American League so I mean there is that positive right Kegan like how great Cesar's been and how they have him on term and you know obviously you want team success clearly but at a minimum

him chasing a Cy Young could continue the kind of compelling storylines down the stretch if this team continues to fall off when it comes to the win-loss column. It ain't all bad fellas. Come on. There's one or two things going right around here. When you look at the off-season, this is what amazes me or maybe confuses me even more.

Dylan Sees, amazing signing. Fantastic signing. Tyler Rogers has been really good. Kaz Okamoto's been their best hitter. Spencer Miles has been the best story of the season. They nailed their whole off-season, and it still ends up like this. I don't get it. But Dylan Seas has been fantastic, guys.

When it gets to the end of the season, there will be 30 voters who vote on this. It's not about who has the most war, the most whatever. There are voters who vote on this. Dillin Sees' path to this is probably having Cam Schlittler stumble a little bit. But that raw number of strikeouts, if he gets up to 250, 260, 270 strikeouts, that gets pretty undeniable at a certain point. And if Dillin Seas can avoid, the blow-up starts down the stretch, I think he's got a legitimate really good shot guys to win this.

And to take a run at some strikeout records that, beyond Roger Clemens and his two incredible years, which nobody's ever going to touch, he could be in that next level. Gosman, Robbie Ray, and his Cy Young year, man, just fantastic. It's like you're facing a closer for seven-innings straight. Higin, great stuff, buddy, as always. Enjoy yourself down there. We'll do it later in a week.

You got our fellows. We'll see you soon. There he is. Kegan Matheson joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. It's time to Toyota check out the Toyota Tacoma and Toyota Tundra pickup trucks, both available as hybrids. Maple Toyota right near Canada. at his Wonderland in the Maple Auto Mall.

Assis has been phenomenal. Yeah. He has been a stud. He is a strikeout machine. He's given them innings. He's been healthy. And Kagan makes a very good point. Tyler Rogers has been really good.

Last year, Louis Varland was an unbelievable acquisition. Great pickup. And Kazo Okamoto's been their most potent offensive player. Like, they kind of did what they were supposed to do during the offseason. It's been the incumbent players that just haven't pulled their weight.

I mean, I guess you could point to things that didn't happen, though. Like Boba Chet, keeping him, but Paul hasn't been very good. No, and then it's like Kyle Tucker

hasn't been great for L either, so it's like, I guess what I mean, that's a bullet dodged. Yeah, I guess what I mean is like they did shoot big and didn't actually land those things,

but maybe that. Maybe it was a blessing. Maybe. Maybe it was a blessing. Although you'd rather have someone better if you could. I think they'd still find a way to make Tucker

work. Maybe in a different situation, he's more prominent here. In L.A., that's a tough, true. You know, you're walking into a championship clubhouse. Well, do you think if they had a do-over, like, he's turned it around kind of lately, but if you could go back to them and say, you could do it again with Bichette. And let's say you could take the same deal. I think it was like a two-plus-one

kind of deal. Yeah. Probably not. Again, I don't think it would make a difference on this season if Springer and Vlady and Kirk are performing the way they're performing. performing. Yeah, you're right. And Varsho and Barger, like Varsho, it's absurd to watch his, just some of his, his at-bats are like lost.

Wild. You can just see he has no confidence. He's got no game plan. And he's costing himself a lot of money. Oh, you're going to contract year and you're doing that. I mean, that's a gold glove center fielder who can't hit now. And his defensive play has slowed down a little bit compared to where it was a couple years ago in his prime.

That's got to get in your head when you're, when you just, you just see the zeros coming off the contract, right? Like, that's, that's tough to take. Troubling. But the Dodgers,

you know, they get an 11 and a half game lead in the NL West. Just makes no difference. Tucker, you can show up, doesn't matter if you play, play well, don't play well. That's why they're going to show up in the playoffs.

That's why there's going to be a salary cap, man. They're just too good. They're so good every single year. No, Tani's not even pitching now. Like, that could be, we could be getting to the, point where it's the beginning of the end of of Otani. This is the thing that never gets brought up with him is they have an

amazing farm system. Like they do everything. No, no, I'm saying Otani, we just may not see him pitch anymore. Oh, like that's coming. Oh, yeah. Like, his bad is still going to be his bad. But the phenom that was Otani where this guy could hit 50 home runs and have an ERA of like sub two. So would you take over under one and a half more years pitching? I probably bet the under. Feels that way, but maybe they'll just, you know, maybe just in spots, right?

Like maybe just, you know, they'll use them in spots. Maybe we'll use them less as a pitcher. Possibly. Well, you don't need them right now. You get an 11-a-half game lead. Like, they just shut it. Like if he's arm, if he's got dead arms, he's got some, shut him down.

What's amazing is, I think, like, a bunch of their starters, haven't you? Like, snow has been out. Klazno has been out. Every year it happens. But they get so many guys. It doesn't matter. It's still sickening. And I think that's what the other owners are saying,

you can't be doing this. This cannot be the competitive. nature of the sport right now. Best bets coming up. Overdrive continues up on YouTube live. You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it. Hello. My gosh. Watch all your favorite podcasts from start

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All right, Best Bet's powered by Fandual. Make your picks and assemble a same game parlay in seconds on the Fandrilla Sportsbook app. Take the under in the game tonight. I think that's a safe bet. It's only seven and a half runs, which seems like a million when you consider the offense. The Blue Jays are bringing to the table.

And it's pretty good pitching duel tonight. Cs, I think, is going to have a night. I go the over and the strikeout count on that. Here's your parlay. Best bets powered by Fandrel. Same game parley is available for every MLB game on the Fandil Sportsbook app. Please play responsibly 19 plus

physically located in Ontario. All right. Jays raise. Four game series against Tampa, and then you're off the Fenway for three. Big week. Big week for the believers out there. If you want to be a believer, I think, I mean, four and three goes without saying, probably five and two. I mean, you got to start rolling off.

You got to start with out streaks here. Yeah. Like you got to do with the Red Sox and Orioles are doing. Yeah, six, seven, eight in a row. Like, you got, it's got to happen. You know what you should start doing every show now home game? Vladdy's going to home or at home tonight. I used to say it and one day.

I used to bet it. I remember doing that in April and maybe like tonight's the night, home run. And it wasn't paying anything. It was paying like plus 200. Got to be up. And I just finally stopped. It's a good question, actually. I should look that up.

I'll bet you it's not because at some point he's going to hit a home run. Exactly. Like it's going to happen. He will hit a home run at the Rogers Center, I think. Say it's going to happen tonight. I think so. And then I can play it tomorrow. Tonight's the night.

All right, boys. Good seeing you guys. Thanks for doing this. Great seeing you. Dave Festruck, Jonas Siegel of the Athletic. Great seeing you guys. Thanks to everyone behind the scenes for helping out.

We appreciate it. Everyone for tuning in today. TV radio, podcast, web, up on YouTube live and streaming soon up on Crave. We're out of here. Enjoy your evenings. Enjoy the games tonight. We're back tomorrow at 4 p.m.

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