OverDrive - OverDrive - July 22, 2026 - Hour 1

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

Join Bryan Hayes, Jonas Siegel and Keegan Matheson for Hour 1 on OverDrive! The guys kick things off by dissecting the Blue Jays disheartening loss to Tampa Bay on Tuesday night, and who on the team may have the best value if they’re moved at the trade deadline. Jonas and Keegan then go head-to-head in our “Walking The Beat” segment, where each makes their case for why the Maple Leafs or Blue Jays are the better match for a list of questions. The guys wrap up the hour discussing LeBron James’ free agency decision.

There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellair direct.com. This hour of Overdrive is powered by Fandool. Fan Duel, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. All right, here we go, Overdrive, off and running. TSN 1050 on the TSN app, your home smart speaker up on TSN4, up on YouTube live. Brian Hayes, Jonas Siegel.

Egan Matheson in here. How are we doing, boys? Good to see you guys. I'm happy to be here. Yeah. You know, you have to worry about what's going on down there. Yeah, 12-2 last night. Yeah.

Fives aren't great down there. This is how good. You're suggesting? Yeah. Got to meet Jonas today. I've checked another person off my list. People have talked 200 times and have not yet met in person. There you go.

Every trip out to the studio is a new one. You always are going to find someone here. Not running out yet. That you weren't expecting to see. Well, on him and I kind of live like similar. lives. Yeah. And so he's going through this season where everything is going wrong.

And I just finished covering a season like that. And it's like, I know exactly. I know. We should get like a timeshare vacation place sometimes. And you can have summers. I'll take the winter. It's so great. Like, because we're going to do this in like half an hour,

basically pit you two against each other on why the Leafs were worse and the Blue Jays. Why maybe the Leafs or the Blue Jays should have more fate that they can turn things around? because, I mean, the Leafs, they've already gone through their 82 game schedule, and they've had an off-season. That was active, very active, and they're hoping to turn things around. The Blue Jays, they still got a lot of games left. This mic is crazy.

I don't know if it's picking up or not, if it's such a bad mic. But anyway, it is like seeing yourselves in the mirror, right? Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you're through the war now. Hopefully. We'll see. but I'm standing in whatever mess this is now.

Yeah. How many more we got? 61 more games? Not that I'm counting. Not that I'm counting. But 61, man. I think last night was the low point. Was it?

12-2. Oh, that's optimistic. Yeah, absolutely. Last night was the low point, both for how it looked, but how it felt. It felt terrible in that stadium. It was dead. Nothing is worse than indifference. You know, a stadium full of,

people who are ticked off and booing, that's, that's one thing. That's energy. A stadium that's cheering is a beautiful thing. But when all you can hear is just the hum of people having conversations, probably leaning to their left and their right being like, man, should we leave? Should we maybe just go home and watch TV? That's ugly, man. That place felt terrible. Yeah, I would challenge that you've hit rock bottom. It can always get deeper. Oh, yeah, it can get a lot. Yeah. You know, you can get 12,000 people in there in September when they're getting spanked by some team. It's very fair.

He's remember last year with the Leafs? It's like that was the worst game. Yeah. It's like three games. Give it time. Give it time. I remember I was down there for the Ottawa game out of the break. Yeah, I was just thinking about that.

Remember that? I was like, was that rock bottom? It was three weeks of their only six points out. And if they can get red hot coming out of the gate and maybe they're going to be buyers. Like I talked about it on Monday, the parallels are eerie in terms of hitting the All-Star Breaks slash the Olympic. break. Jays were two and a half games out going into the All-Star break.

You can get on a hot streak. Still a lot of games left to be played. Anything's possible. The least were six points out of a wild card spot going into the Olympic break. 25 games to go. Anything's possible. They'd go 20 and 5. They could do that. Why couldn't it? Well, because didn't they win the three games going to the break

in Western Canada? They went through Vancouver and Seattle and stole ours returned and played well. And then all of a sudden it was like, okay, maybe they've got an opportunity here. And the Js kind of similarly, like Through Seattle, through San Francisco, and you're like, okay, maybe they're going to figure this out. And it got progressively worse. So watch yourself.

I'm telling you, it can. And if they sell, and I don't see how it's possible where they could possibly do anything other than that now. Because your six games out of a wildcard spot, the Red Sox got rained out last night. They won today, right? So they've won again today. 15. 15 is not. 15 in a row.

And they're beating a team in Baltimore who was red-hot as well coming in. to the series, the rays aren't going to slow down. The Yankees aren't going to slow down. There's just too many teams in front of you. And furthermore, you look like a lifeless team. That's where it gets worse, right? Because you can speak to it. The Leafs tried to pretend.

And then they came out of the gate slow. They got pumped by Ottawa. I think that was on the Saturday night. And you could feel it. They're like they're done. And then when they started selling, they basically put the white flag up and so we're not playing anymore. and if the Jays, if they sell, you take Gosman out of that room,

you take Springer out of that room, even though he's not playing well, he's an energy guy, he's a guy that they have faith in based on his history. You take them out, replace them with kids that don't know what they're doing. It could get progressively worse. So when you look for the- I'm warning you, watch yourself. I'm a big believer. In all areas of my life, it can always get worse.

Yes. Okay. That's my optimistic take, I guess, at this point. But none of the metrics, none of the fancy stats, none of the eye test, none of the feel test feel good right now. No. You know, watching that team last night, it's, I'm real careful with ever questioning, like, are they locked in? Are they trying? That type of stuff.

But that's different from feel. And last night felt completely defeated. You're playing a team that's just designed in a lab to expose everything that's wrong with the Blue Jays. And holding up a mirror to the Jays, man, it was ugly last night. There was no optimism out of that game. And to see teams like the Red Sox guys, I remember when the Blue Jays were down in Boston, this was a month ago,

I need to find this tweet and delete it because it's still out there, and I think that I'm going to be real unpopular in Boston. I remember tweeting the Red Sox might come six in the AL East. They looked like the worst team in the history of this sport. They've won 15 in a row. But the problem is that when you look at that and say, well, the Jays can do that.

Every optimistic take about the Blue Jays has something to do with something other than themselves. It's, oh, everyone else sucks too. Oh, this team did it. But if you spend five minutes looking at the Blue Jays themselves, you'll think, ah, never mind. Yeah. I don't think that. But if you guys were going to build a list of, let's say, five things, they will turn it around if this happens.

So Vlad is obviously one. Like, what else is on the list? Well, there's five or six other bats that have to come alive. So Springer has to, Springer has been better. So, like, that is. Fitton Barcher coming back would be a big one. Which I just don't. His absence has been brutal. If we see him this year, great. But he was supposed to be the guy that would fill in secondary.

Like Alejandro Kirk is another one. That hasn't been there. Andres Amenez is flying under that radar, man. But for someone making 23 mil a year. Terrible. With no offensive value right now. And unless you're the best defender on the planet, that's tough. He's good.

He's not the best on the planet. That contract needs to be a bigger talking point than it is. right now. But wasn't that the deal when they, like, wasn't that his deal before he got here? Yes. So, they took it on. Right? And listen, last year, in the playoffs, he was very clutch and very good.

Yeah. And, you know, he was playing second base when he got here. Now he's playing short and he played short, obviously, ever since Boe went down in New York in September. But it was a risk because Cleveland was trying to get off the money. Yeah. And Toronto was willing to accept the money. But it's just so far down the list.

The problem is, the rotation isn't any good. Like you feel for Gosman last night, he's got two outs. Yeah. He's almost about to get out, clean inning, and it just, it never materialized.

And nothing's easy for him right now. Like they're sitting on everything. He can't, he's not striking anybody out. Nothing's easy for Kevin Gosman. And, you know, he's hiring to watch him.

It's very different. I feel like I'm watching a veteran pitcher who's laboring through this. Yeah. And I'm not sure if I've covered a player who I respect as much as God. Cosman, like a thoughtful guy, great to work with what he's done in this city on and off the field. I can't say enough good things about him.

But there's only guys five pitchers in baseball who have thrown more innings them. Shurs are in Corby, like three of them are on this team, which is maybe not a good thing at this point. Otherwise, it's Sayle, Kentana and Justin Verland. Like, this guy's thrown a million innings, 2000 plus. And he looks tired out there. And I don't blame him one bit for that. Like, especially coming off of last year, regular season and playoffs, no one in the sport threw more innings than Kevin Gosman.

He did that at 34. He's given all he's got left in the tank, but you need to help a pitcher like that. And that's what kills me watching this team, is that if you're going to have a god-awful offense, and that's what they are, this is an awful. Worst in Major Big Baseball right now. Worst in MLB.

I was writing a story to get 221 hitters have more homers than Vladdy. 221. I believe the nine hitter for the raise has got two in the last two nights. Baffles me. So if you're going to have that offense, which is abysmal, you need to play elite defense. You need to be running the bases like the race, which looks like a team that has a heart. They can at the very least. They're fun to watch.

And you need to pitch. But I feel for a guy like Kevin Gosman going out there knowing he's probably going to get one or two runs scored, and that's what he gets. Well, and that's it. When you're deep in your career and the energy is questionable. I'm not questioning his work ethic or that he wants to perform. but when you get to mid-30s and your arm has been used a lot, you need a couple things to trigger you to be on the front foot. One, a belief that the offense is going to pick you up when need be.

Two, a winning atmosphere. And he doesn't have access to either of those right now. Like if he's going on the mound, he knows he's getting no run support and the way that they're performing in general, they're just kind of playing out the season. And on top of it, he's got the trade deadline now hanging over him, where, you know, I don't know what the market's going to be for him. He's got an 18-no-trade list.

Ken Rosenthal tweeted out, you know, about half an hour ago, the Reds, Brewers, Tigers, Mets, A's, White Sox, Pirates, and Mariners are on that list. But that could be something that, you know, obviously throws him off a little bit as well. I mean, he's going into a contract year. He's not going to come back. I can't imagine he comes back. So where's his family going? there's just a lot he's dealing with right now.

Is there no way you just extend them for cheap? I don't think so because I look at Chris Bassett last year. Yeah. It was a year older, but coming off of that, the Blue Jays, like, I never got the sense there was a ton of interest there. And the Blue Jays said, no, thank you. He went to Baltimore. He has a 5-2 ERA.

He's been on the I-L half the season. And it's, I hate that kind of Bill Belichick-brained, like, get out a year early. It feels heartless for someone who you got to have a heart for in Kevin Gosman. but I don't see it. And trade deadlines got away on you, man. I don't care if you've been in this game a long time and been traded like he has. You know, if you told me that I don't know what city I'm working in two weeks from now, that sucks. Now, if you paid me $20 million, I'd go work in any city and I'd have a smile on this face.

You'd find a way to make it work. I would. But it's a factor, and it's on top of all of this stuff for Gosman. And that's an interesting no trade list. Like this feels like a no trade list where he chose those to actually not be traded to. Sometimes you'll see a no trade, and it's Yankees's Red Sox. It's Blue Jays, and people get upset. Why don't you want to go to the Jays?

It's a sense of control. Yeah, and I don't think people understand that often enough that it's a mechanism put into control. This looks more like a traditional, like, just don't trade me to these places. Right. He doesn't want to live in Cincinnati. But some of those teams, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh. They're not trading for them.

Some of those teams are out of it. The Mets are not trading for it. That's the whole thing. The Reds aren't doing it. The TIGs aren't doing it. The Mets aren't doing it. The A's aren't doing it. But the White Sox, possibly. Pirates and Mariners. I think of Atlanta. I think of Philadelphia.

Atlanta has traded for Gosman before. And needs pitching. Apolis. They need him. Now, I would pay some real money, fellas. A good 20 bucks to be in the room for that phone call between Ross Hackens and Alex Anthopoulos. All those dynamics, let's call them. Especially for a big guy like Gosman. But he'll have a market, man.

There will be teams who think they can get him back. Yeah, that'll be interesting. like, you know, to know what the market is, because none of them are popping right now. You know, if it's Gosman, if it's Bieber, if it's Varsho, if it's Springer, none of them are having good years. None of them are at the top of their value.

Who do you think is number one most attractive? Jeff Hoffman. Interesting. And he's another year left on this project? I think that Hoffman has some real attraction. Really? There's a year left, and this is the ultimate example of how fans view their own market. And I understand that. When Blue Jays fans hear Jeff Hoffman, they see McGill, Vargas hitting the shot, Rojas, sorry, hitting the shot to left field.

And he won out. He will always have that hanging over him. And that's just the truth. That eliminated the rest of the playoffs, which were great. That's the conversation with Jeff Hoffman all the time. Okay, he has one god-awful outing. Then he's brilliant for a month. I think that when you look in this open market, it's going to be a lesson that your team's players are never as valuable as you think.

because Blue Jays fans are going to say Kevin Gossman. I mean, this guy's got a piece of Blue Jays fans' hearts, what he did in the postseason. If you're the Braves or the Phillies, you're looking at it and saying, okay, well, look at his last start. We don't care what he meant to the community of Toronto. Look at his last start. Look at where his fastball velo is.

What's he doing with the splitter? It gets much more heartless from the other side of this, and the value's never what you think. Springer is another good example. But if I am an opposing team, and I know that Blue Jays fans won't agree or see this, and I get why. There will be contenders out there looking at Jeff Hoffman,

who's striking out 14 batters per nine innings, who has a whiff rate of 50% on his slider, which is bananas. And they're going to say, man, if we could get the right 25 appearances out of this guy, he could be one of the best ads at the deadline. Yeah. Just make sure he's not closing for you. Yeah. Seventh, eighth inning.

Be real. careful. You're right. In the playoffs, man, he was big for them. Like he was dynamite. He gave them two innings against Seattle, I believe it was game seven. was it not? I think he was there. I think he gave him the eighth and the ninth, or at least four or five hours.

Yeah. We were in the building. I can't remember. It all blends together. But he was really, really good. But that's like the biggest, yeah, but of all time. The ultimate. Yeah, but. Listen, I'm not, I'm not, I know you're not. I'm not, I'm not downplaying giving up a home run to a nine hitter

when you're up four, three in the ninth inning of Game 7, the World Series. Yes. It was a horrible pitch that missed and Rojas, to his credit, went down, kind of got it. But he'll never get past that. And listen, management for the Blue Jays and the other 29 teams, they can't consider

what Joe Blow fan things in terms of the value and in terms of trying to try to predict what he might bring to your team this year and next. But if you're a Blue Jay fan, you have all the right in the world to constantly have that hanging over him. Always. It'll never end.

Unfortunately for him, you're just never going to live that down. And it's the conversation we're stuck in with Hoffman, you know. I'm using it from the other side now, but it also drives me nuts when I cover Hoffman's year last year. And I have to read over and, well, outside of the home runs, brother, what? Yeah, he gave up a lot. There was too much apologist coverage of that outside of the home runs, which were real and happened in real games and scored real runs. I cover actual baseball games with scores at the end of them. And I'm a big believer that the scores are one of the most important numbers in baseball. And I know that not all of them

added up to have the most expected batting average and expected results, but God, when it keeps happening. You know, I understand why fans have that feeling. But on the other side of this, I do think there will be some front offices and baseball looking at his metrics on the good days and thinking, holy, if we can just get these good days, that's the piece. Yeah. And as for position players, I don't, I don't see, I don't think Varsho would have a big, Springer would be a nice Playoff bench guy. He's got a DH and he's got to be a, yes, a right-handed bat, maybe off the bench. He's just, he's never going to obviously be in the field for you for the most part.

And his numbers and his performance, it's so down this year. But World Series MVP, incredibly clutch. Tons of playoff. Tons of playoff history. Like, I think there's a market out there for George Springer. I'm not disputing that. I just don't know how much you're getting in return. No, you're not, right?

Yeah, and that's the question. Like, if you're at Ross Atkins and company, and you're trying to, trying to use the trade deadline to build up some collateral to allow yourself to feel good about the 27 season because that's what you're doing, I don't know how much improvement you're going to get. You know, like they've been pretty good with trades. Like Atkins and Company have made some really good trades over the years. And even under the radar ones that at the time you didn't maybe pay a ton of attention

to that have worked out and paid off pretty well. So I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt that they can find some value. The thing is they got to, their players have got to supply enough value for them to be able to get what they want. Yeah, they need stars. Exactly. I don't care anymore about competent big leaguers. You should be able to find that in the waiver wire, and I trust this front office to do that. Yeah, they've done it well.

A big leaguer no longer excites me. A 24-year-old prospect who will grow in to play 50 games a season, I don't care. I really don't anymore. You need more stars because right now Vladdy is your star. And when he fails, your whole season fails. I know Ernie Clement's been a great story and he's an all-star. But someone like that reaching the ceiling of their potential and talent, that's not your star. That's not driving your organization.

You need two or three superstars on this team. The Blue Jays can find big leaguers really well. And you're right, they haven't blown a trade. There's no great regret where like you trade Tatis or James Wood when they're young or something and you're totally screwed and you regret it forever. They've done good in trades, but they need stars. Man, just more big leaguers doesn't get it done because then you're betting on everyone to have top outcomes.

And it just doesn't happen. It happened last year. You can't bet on that happening again. And again, Vladdy last night, you know, it's a daily occurrence, but you look at the first inning last night where they get three singles and the bases are loaded and he strikes out and he challenges. And I haven't wrapped my head around the whole time.

challenge system, what it means, how you can possibly, you know, game plan or have a blueprint of where it's going to apply the rest of the game, because you just don't know. You don't know when it's going to be used again or not. But that's a standard to me where I'm, I'd love to know if John Snyder spoke to him because he obviously gets preferential treatment, right? He's going up there and he probably has access to a challenge that Valenzuela clearly doesn't. You know, he's not walking in there and tapping his helmet when he strikes out, but it was a blatant strikeout. And he challenges, and it just, it's such, it's a showing of frustration,

but also it's selfish in the moment. You know, and that's where I wonder about the standards the rest of the way, because Vladdy is on your team for the next 13 years, right? Like, he's here next year. He's a guy that's got to be a leader for you. He's got to make sure it doesn't get crazy ugly. can speak to the leaves down the stretch. Guys start getting injured and it gets really ugly.

And all of a sudden, kids are showing up and it's like, no one knows how to show them what they're supposed to do here. And, you know, you don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, but that to me, that was a selfish challenge. It was a selfish play by Vladi simply out of frustration. And I get why he's so frustrated. I understand it. Like, he's not, he can't hit.

He doesn't hit for power. He doesn't hit, period. But that's not the situation. should last night. And he jumped the gun. Yeah, it was just a motion. Exactly. I'm not accepting this.

Actually, you are. It's a strike. Terrible, boom, tap the helmet. And then Varsha pops out and Okamoto chases a pitch that was miles outside of it. Too bad at bat. Horrendous at bats. And then at that point, you knew the game was over.

Toast. Like when they did not cash a run in the first inning, it was done. The whole feeling. It was over. And you need, it's so tough in baseball. You need Vladdy in a leadership role to be stubborn and stead.

You know, it's kind of the challenge of John Schneider right now. Like everyone wants him to throw a chair, either at the wall or at me. I don't really care. And curse a bunch and get as red as these logos behind us. And he can do that. Listen, he can do it. It's in the toolbox. Oh, it's there, man.

He watches to, you can tell. I think he walks in every morning and looks at that toolbox. Like, man, wouldn't I love to? But in baseball, like, you need to hold a standard. It's not always about trying more. Vlad can't go out and fight a guy. he can't go out and lay a hit and set the tone and fire up the building. And that's the challenge within baseball.

But you can't have these cracks because then every single kid, Sean Keyes, Johanra Pinyang, everyone coming in is going to say, okay, well, this is the standard. Yeah. It's up to Vladdy to hold that bar, but it's hard in baseball because it's not always an active thing. It's avoiding things like that. You need to avoid. If we were talking about the Leafs and Vladdy was the captain,

I'd say, go fight someone, go lay a hit, go show people that you really give a damn. and that would be my small-brained, unanalytic approach to this. But you can't do that in baseball. You can't try harder because you'll look stupider. So you need to hold the line. And that was an example of him not quite doing it. Exactly. Did not hold the line. Because, you know, three months ago, he takes his medicine,

wish I swung at that. What are you going to do? Here it's like we're so desperate. I'm in such a dark place. I'm not accepting reality. Yeah. And that's a problem. You know, and that's an issue.

and it unraveled last night. Jay's back in action tonight. So Keegan's in here, Jonas in here. Yeah, Steve Phillips coming up just after 5 o'clock. We'll get Steve's take on value of these players. You know, what do you think Ross Atkins and company could do between now and the trade deadline. And, you know, there's still a lot of news out there in terms of what's going on possibly

with the NHL's offseason NFL camps opening up. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on TSN4. There's no shortcut for saving time. But saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bell Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BellairDirect.com. Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month.

Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. All right, overdrive continues. Powered by Fanduel, bringing you more ways to play your game, your way. Jays raised tonight. And the Red Sox and the Orioles played this afternoon. They got a double-headed.

The Red Sox won again, 15 in a row. Still no update on Aaron Judge and what's going on with him in the future. Yankees, they were playing Pittsburgh, and the Pirates have won that in 10 innings. So moving and shaking for those that are concerned with that kind of thing, not necessarily here in Toronto. It's a bizarre turn of events, but we've been talking about it daily.

Keegan, you've been writing about it daily. It's unfortunate that we're in the position we're in. But Jonas, you and Keegan, two peas in a pod covering teams. Yeah. The year before had great years. You know, the Blue Jays had a great year. The year before, I know the leaves, you know, they choked out against Florida, but still was a very good year.

Sure. Winning the division in the playoffs. That's another one of those. You don't like that? He was talking about it before. It's like one of those yada yadas. Yeah, they took the defending. Champs to seven, it's like, do you remember how those?

Game five and, yeah, getting... I got you. I'm just saying, relatively speaking. It was the second round. It's the second round, but for them, it's only the second time it's happened in 20 years. Amazing. They won the division. They've done that like five times in their history. And never the Atlantic. Congratulations.

There you go. I feel like we play that Jess Marsh quote. I'd rather be us than them. Yeah, that's right. They lost. Exactly. We don't like Morocco. Who cares if they beat us?

We'd still rather be us. Okay. I like it. You're a difficult marker. I mean, it's been, is it, 59 years? It'll be 60 this year. Yeah, so, yeah, standards should be pretty high. I had the chat with my oldest daughter last night because we were talking about the Jays. And, you know, she got on board last year, right? And that is what is happening a lot at the park.

You mentioned the apathy. There are obviously season ticket holders that have been going to that park forever. And there are diehard Blue J fans. that know exactly what's going on and they're disappointed. It's not really in the nature of a Toronto sports fan to lead a charge, or lead a, you know, a fandom revolt on what's going on, on the field, on the ice, on the court. It's just, it's not in the DNA of the city.

But they captivated the whole country last year where a lot of people, and I said this yesterday, from coast to coast, said, we're booking a trip and we're going. Yeah. You know, on July 21st, they're playing Tampa. And hopefully Kevin Gossman started, you know, and they flew in from. Halifax or they flew in from

Victoria. I saw them downtown. And they're walking around. And they're like, hey, we're here. And the team stinks. And they're getting smoked. And it's very difficult. But they want to make the most of it because this is their big trip. Right. This is it. You're here to see him. So I was talking to my daughter last night because she's

like, what the hell's wrong with the James? Like, why do they stink so much? I'm like, sit down. I'm going to take you through some problems. Welcome to Toronto. Pour yourself a scotch. Sounds like a great night. Yeah. It was a dark night. ace asshole. My wife had to step in and say that's enough. So their average bat speed. Exactly. I'm like exactly that. And I'm like and Vladdy challenged. You've got pictures on the wall

and red strings connecting them all. Exactly that. I'm like trying to figure out what's going on. And anyway, after that, she followed up with, when did the Leafs last win? I'm like, oh, God. You really want to have this conversation? Because yes, the Js have not won a World Series in 33 years. They made it to the World Series. They made it to a little thing called the ALCS a couple times in 15 and 16. The Leafs have not, because I did the math last night, not that you really need to. I'm like, they have not won a Stanley Cup in 60 years.

And then it became. And have not been to it? Yeah, exactly. I'm like, they haven't even been to a cup final. Yes. That's why the standard should be way higher. You're right. I mean, I don't care.

You would think so. It should be. You would think so. Yes. The goalposts have moved so far. Yes. that making the playoffs is now something that... It's funny how they swing back and forth.

Like, remember in 20, I guess, 2013, that was the conversation. It's like, God, they made the playoffs. Cool. And got to Game 7. Forget what happened in Game 7. Don't worry about that. They got there.

Respect in the handshake. Yeah. Well, that was later. And then they were making the playoffs every year, and it's like, who cares? Yeah. Well, you know what's bizarre about, like, when you actually take time

to kind of just ruminate, in all this kind of pain and really allow yourself to soak it in. Yes, not going to a cup final in 59 years. It's very difficult. Especially when you watch Vegas go to three. Is it three? They've been to three in ten years.

Okay. Yes. Very, very difficult. Florida went there, their second or third year in the league as well. Remember Van Beesbrook and Kovinovinsky. Van Biesbrook. Yeah.

And then one, two, or three? And now they've won two of the last three. That's, again, a southern market that wasn't around, you know, 60 years ago. But they have not been to a conference final in 24 years. That's wild. Dude, forget Cup final. Well, and Hayes, I bet.

Conference final in 24 years. I wonder if you went around the league how many teams have been to a conference final. Like, it's probably a lot, right? I would guess if you're taking out Seattle and Columbus, those are the obvious ones that come to mind. Right. Arizona's Utah has never. Arizona has. date? Yes, they did. With Mike Smith and Rafi Torres was on that team. I'm pretty sure they were in a final four, Jonas. Look that up, Alex. I'm almost positive because I remember Raffey was on the team.

I'm pretty sure Shane Don't and them. I think they made it to a final four. Right with the whiteout? Yes, I believe so. Maybe they lost to L.A. or Chicago or something like that, but I'm pretty sure Phoenix made it to it. So I probably looking at very few teams, if any. I would say in the last 20, let's say the last 25 years, the leaves Columbus and Seattle are the only teams that haven't. That would be my guess. That would be my guess. So the second round is not very good.

But for them, again, actually when you consider it. All right. So you two, unfortunately, I mean, fortunately, you got great games. It's a lot of fun, right? And you guys are both objective guys. But disappointing seasons. Keegan, you're still in the midst of this. You're still lugging it out.

You're still grinding through 61 more games. But I figured I'd get you guys to kind of represent your respective beats. Okay. And some of this will be therapeutic for you. I should have worn a quarter zip. There's no item of clothing that is less forgiving to my body than a quarter zip. You're not a quarter-sip. They're not structured enough.

When you get the loose polyester ones, I just, I could never be a, Both for what they are related to in baseball and fashion-alize, I can never quarter. And some of it, if you get the sizing going, the arms get big, too, right? And then you get way too much thread, and it's a strong. You can rock a quarter-zip. Jonas is built for a quarter-zip. Like built. I don't have it.

Like literally a mannequin for a quarter-sip would be Jonas and the body type. But, okay, I'll give you guys the floor here. Jonas, why don't you go first because you're through it? So maybe you see the world a little bit differently. explain why the leaf season was the worst of the two seasons. Oh, man. If you can, make your case. Just block out an hour and a half.

Yeah, go ahead. Try to keep it within reason of like, you know, 45 seconds. I was telling Keegan, like, when I went on vacation, I stopped thinking about the leaves. Oh, that's nice. So this is now, I'm going to have to dive back in and think of all the reasons. There were just so many reasons. Like, I mean, last off season they did not have a good off season. You remember they didn't actually do anything?

Remember July 1st last year? It was like they signed Michael Posetta, Travis Boyd, and they did the Nick Waugh sign trade with Mitch Marta. That was like it. Yeah, you're right. They didn't really do it. They didn't kick tires. They looked into a lot of stuff.

They were kicking a lot of tires. Cool. Yeah. So the roster was flawed. They lost a big piece. In Mitch. In Mitch. Never replaced him.

And it just was like terrible the whole time. Like literally, trading camp was bad. Yeah. It started bad. Stollars called out the team. a week or two into the season. It was like everything is going bad. We wondered about Austin Matthews.

Would he look like himself again? It was like he was playing with like Domi and McMahon and like they never had a replacement for Marner. And it just every time you thought this was the worst they could possibly play. It was like no. Or a big injury. Or a big injury. It was just one thing after another.

It snowballed. And they just could never get it back on track. It was it was really, I've never covered the season like it. Very compelling kicks. Now, Keegan, again. Again, you're kind of at a disadvantage here because the Jays, they could go 61 and all the rest of the way, and then this would not age well, right? But you've covered 101 games so far.

And this was, I'd say the most hyped season since 93. 94, the work stoppage was kind of hanging over everything. I mean, that's a long time ago, but obviously there was a lot of excitement there. But I think higher than going into 16, going into 17. For sure, I mean, based on what they did last year. Easily, yeah. You go back, I look at it after that big Marlins trade going into 13, but that was created hype. This was earned a natural hype. And I think that the case for the Blue Jays would be about the scarcity or the rarity of the attention.

The Maple Leafs, I think, are always going to have that more consistently. Whereas the Blue Jays, they have their base, but this was about a national spike. Like, the TV numbers last year were stupid. Massive. Absolutely ridiculous. and the national attention that grabbed was so rare. And now I think you're seeing just these last few days, like a swing from disappointed to anger.

You know, you start to hear and see the fan. I'm stupid enough to open my mentions every once in a while and see that. I'm sure you get these two, Jonas, words. You know what? Ask the hard question. Okay. What people really want me to do is take the mic and say, John Kagan Matheson, MLB.com, you know the team sucks?

Yeah. Why have you not been fired? There's not really an understanding of how the job works, but I sense fans getting to that point right now. So the case for the Blue Jays is the scarcity of this and the attention that they have that they are losing right now because for a lot of fans who jumped on the wagon, bandwagon's cool.

Everyone starts as a fan eventually. I don't mean bandwagon is a bad thing. All great. But a lot of fans who just jumped on the wagon are suddenly thinking, oh, like, this is way less cool. You know, this is not nearly as enjoyable is that big national thing that I got to talk to everyone at work about every morning. And when your favorite ball club sucks, it's every night.

Yeah, that is. It is relentless. If the Packers suck, one day a week is ruined. That's right. When the Blue Jays suck, man, you're having some bad weeks. Yeah. I got a lean. I got a lean Jays.

I got a lean Jays. I think he can really hammered that. I mean, they did miss the playoffs for the first time since 2016. Well, and that's, that is the thing. And crashed out. And it was like... And the stretch run in particular, which again, the Jays are just getting into. We established that at 401.

It can get worse. Yeah. Like they could legitimately be at a point where you're like, are these guys going to win 70 games even? But I think you're right because it was like they were at the top of the mountain. Like we just went and saw the Odyssey. And it's like if the next Christopher Nolan movie is just the worst movie you've ever seen, you'd be like, what the...

So you thought the Odyssey was great? It was unbelievable. Really? You know who's... I wanted to tell you know who's in it? Sean Avery. seen him do some press on? Unbelievable.

Does he have a prominent role? No, he has no lines, but you're just like, That's Johnny. There's Avery. Yeah, I was like, is that Sean Avery? Okay. He's just there. Hayes, I don't think you were in the room yet when I was telling Jonas about my

favorite Odyssey moment from doing the morning show the other day with A.K. and Carlo. And Coronaick was telling me, you know what, guys, I'm going to go see the Odyssey later today. We were arguing about whether seeing like an 11 a.m. or noon show by yourself is bad. And I'm all for it. You're okay with that.

I'm all for it. But AK said, you know what, I'm trying to stay offline, though, today. I don't want to see any spoilers. And I lost my mind because this book came out 2,000 years ago. It's been around a long time. And you've survived up until now. It was my favorite moment of the station in a long time. That is good.

I hope it didn't get spoiled. I mean, a book spoil. You can't, like you can spoil a book. But the idea of someone reading it between now and noon would be difficult to see happening. But I've heard it's great, but now you give me first-hand testimony. But then imagine, like, you're really hyped up and you're like, man, and it's terrible. It's terrible. And again, I think Matthews, and we'll get to this in a moment, the comparison to the two.

But the Vladis season is so extreme that that adds to the Blue Jays pain that at a minimum, if you had him maybe chasing down something. Yeah, you'd be like, dude, look at what this guy's doing. At least he's performing. Exactly. What do you want him to do? And he, that was a launching pad for everyone what he did in the playoffs and look at this guy's going to legitimately chase MVP's. You know, it wasn't great for Matthews last year. Obviously, the injury was literally, you know, insult to injury. But Vladdy, it's been so bad.

So let's go there when it comes to those two players. Jonas, you make the case. I got a two-pack for you guys. We'll start with the overarching legacy of the two. Matthews will have a more prominent, long-lasting legacy in the city than Vladi. I think he will because hockey is just bigger. However, that's the whole country. But in Toronto, I mean, I would make the case that he's the greatest player they've had.

I know there are lots of people who disagree with that going back to like the 60s, maybe beyond that. But like at his peak, he was unbelievable. And like, Vladia has never reached that level. Like, he was, he had 69 goals and was the best defensive forward in the league. You and I've argued about this lot. Like, he was, he was unbelievable. And it's just like now is like, is he ever going to get back to that or something? something close or like something in the ballpark.

But I just think because he did it for the Leafs, it's going to resonate longer. But the playoff thing is always going to be part of the conversation until it's not. Yes. That was the conversation about Guerrero before last year. Right, exactly. Now that you got the contract

and all that kind of stuff, what are you going to do in the playoffs? Now, he carried his weight plus, plus, plus in the playoffs. Yes. With how well he played. That's what's always stopped me with Matthews is, like, I can look at an individual season, I would argue Gilmore 93 is tough to top. I think it's very difficult to top. He had 127 points.

The guy, you could argue, I think he was probably the best player in the league. Guy named Mary Lemieux was pretty good. Gretzky was pretty good. Federov was pretty good. But he was that good. But Matthews, his 60-goal season, his 69 goal seasons, that's as good as it gets. Right there with Gilmore in 92-93 and 93-94. Dougie followed up with 111 points the next year. but that's as good as it gets. Vladdy, this is

he has at no point during a regular season put forth a top 10 season in franchise history. He killed him up against Bautista, Carlos Delgado's peak years. Donaldson peak year, yeah. I think the Delgado peak late 90s into early 2000s

is a good comp of what you need to get to because he was not just hitting 40 homers a year. It was a 1,000 OPS every year when you're getting adjusted to. And for Vlad, like the way I look at this is what would Vladie have to do to top Matthews in this? And it's championships. Like I think without rings, without trophies, it's Austin Matthews.

Because when I look at them and compare them, how many 40-goal seasons is Austin Matthews has, a couple 60 goals seasons, and there's consistency to go with the greatness. Vladdy had his big, what was a 20-21 season with 48 homers, only Shohei kept them from the MVP. Yeah. I get that. There's been a couple of other great ones, but there's just some good mixed in. And you're going to need championships along the way. Because Vladdy over in the next 14 years, counting stats are all going to be his.

He's going to knock off Delgado in every category eventually just from being here and showing up. But unless Vladdy wins a World Series or two, that gets difficult because he has not been that top of the league consistent guy. He's shown he's able to do it once or twice, but to do it eight or ten years in a row, that has not happened. Yeah. I do wonder if he could grab an MVP, which is asking a lot. You know, it is. And he's 27 and, you know, see what happens with Judge in the forthcoming seasons and what this injury is going to mean for him, the rest of this year and the next, et cetera.

But that would be, I mean, that is, again, you look at the history of the Maple Leafs who have been around 50 years longer than the Js. No one in one of hearts since, I think, 1995. Right. And Matthews got it. Like, you got rookie of the year. he got the heart. I think, you know, I'm not going to say he got Rob when he scored 69

because the other three guys were phenomenal that year too. Who do you think wins more MVP's the rest of the way? Do either run? That's a great question. I would either. It's probably the likely. If you're as a first baseman, you better hit 50 home runs. Yeah, I would bet zero.

I would bet neither of them win anymore. Yeah. But Matthews would be the likely. But he probably, which, you know, begs the question, more likely to happen the next. the next full season they play. Matthew scores 50, Vladi hits 40. Matthews.

All day. You think 50's still in the repertoire for him? I mean, I just think it's less like a pretty significant drop-off for him. Sure, with a lot of like extenuating circumstances, which might be changed. And I just don't know that Carras was ever going to hit 40 again.

He's not really... No, but like he's not going to hit 10. Look at it. Did he ever hit... Has he ever hit more than... 48 to one year. But how many times he hit 30? I think he had 32 or...

33 a few years ago. 32 and he's had a 30 season. But stylistically, he doesn't do that. He's not a pure home run hitter. He's not that, like, Casamo Okamoto. I'm not saying one is better or worse. Okamoto is a true pure home run hitter.

Those are towering, like majestic home runs. But that's what he's up there to do. Exactly. And Vladdy is rocket line drives that maybe if they're at 13 degrees instead of 11 degrees, they go out. He has always been a hitter first and the power is just part of the deal. Like Wade Boggs. Oh, man, I love it.

But, man, I'd have to go on Matthews. Okay. That one I really would. Yeah, I think McKenna's going to factor in significantly on that. You know, if he, presuming Matthews stays and McKenna, they, like, they've got to have some overlap in terms of performance, right? Like McKenna, he's 18 and you got to be reasonable on what you can expect. Even year two, like maybe he takes more steps, which is what you would hope, especially for a first overall pick. But it's likely he's three, years away from kind of hitting his prime. Like seeing the game and slowing the game

down the way that he can perform. Is Austin still here in three years? If he is, is he healthy and still performing? Does his shot return the way it was? Like that's a legitimate... You know, you talk about Vladdy and everything you say is accurate in terms of the way he approaches at bads. Austin's shot has not been the same in the last two years.

Like to score 50, he's got to start ripping pucks the way he did three plus years. It really speaks to how easy he made it look in the beginning. It was absurd. Like that 69 goal season was every single night that guy was scoring goals. And when he didn't, it was like, well, he had nine shot attempts, hit the host twice. I think he had six hat tricks.

He was unbelievable. He was so good a few years ago. And all you can do is hope that he gets back to that form because he's still 29 years old. Yeah. Right. He's not even. Yeah, he's still a couple months. 28.

It'll be 29 to start next year. All right, boys. Good stuff. Enough of that. Moving on. Get Josh Loonberg in here, talk Raptors. Let's see if we can maybe pin. Happening with Kauai.

Yeah, where is Kauai? What's going on with Kauai? Steve Phillips in about 20 minutes, we got arbitration coming up at 530. Kegan Mathis and Jonas Siegel in here on Brian Hayes Overdrive continues up on YouTube Live. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bell Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BellairDirect.com. Get Bell, Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month.

Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. All right, Steve Phillips coming up in about 15 minutes. Play a little arbitration with the boys at 5.30. See if LeBron James wants to make a decision on whether or not he's going to play next year or where he plans on playing. time. Listen, anyone

surprised by the idea of LeBron basking in this, you haven't been paying attention for the last 23 years. He loves the fact that the NBA is being held hostage. Loves it. He loves the fact that the reports are out there

that they can't even reveal the schedule yet without knowing where he's going to go because it's not quite the equivalent of the decision clearly. And it will not have the same impact or the same expectation in terms of winning like he did when he went to Miami. But it's kind of his last, like raw, raw, yes.

Like short of the retirement, which will obviously trump all of that when he does retire, or if he announces retirement or his last game and he's walking off, what have you. This is kind of the last time where LeBron can say, I still own you guys. I got you. And to his credit, he does. It's pretty amazing. He does. Like, it's actually pretty incredible.

that a guy who's 41, 42 years old now, he's played in the league for 23 years can be a free agent and has the whole league paralyzed because you can't reveal your primetime games. Like if you're ESPN, NBC, you're like, I want LeBron. Yeah. You know, and if he goes somewhere where they're not getting a ton of prime time love. If he goes to Golden State, they're going to be on all the time. And they're going to be on anyway.

But you're right, they'll be on even more. Like they're on all, because Steph's there and it's a big market. But you're right. If he ends up there and he's playing with Steph, they're going to play 25 primetime games. Like it's going to be nonstop. I'm trying to be too cool and pretend I don't care. I do.

I want to see that happen too. I'd like to see him in Golden State. Yeah. That's got the highest ceiling on the lowest floor. If that doesn't work, that's the most tragic black and white photo, him and Steph. Totally. But oh my God.

Like both of them well over the arc of their career. Both of them aging. you know, and it's kind of, again, it's not the same as Miami, but that was De Wade's team. That'll be Steph Curry's team. It'll be a little bit different for LeBron, how he kind of handles that. Again, I'm not, I wouldn't

suggest they would win a championship. I don't think they would. Could they make the playoffs? Yeah, I think they can't. But purely from a contact perspective, him playing with Steph. And Draymond. And Draymond being there. Yeah, would be very cool. Cleveland is kind of the boring one. I don't see him going there. I just don't see how the money works.

It's just too perfect. So narrative-wise. And the Knicks aren't, I don't think they're interested. If they hadn't won, they hadn't won, the team, would have made them interested. I love how that works. Hour two coming up. Steve Phillips will join us, Jay's back in action.

Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on TSN4. You've been listening to Overdrive, powered by Fanduel. Fan Duel, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. The newest tracks, let's go. Music, and the next big thing. Always on the new music first. Your first place.

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