OverDrive - OverDrive - July 23, 2026 - Hour 2 - Ryan Dempster

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

Join Bryan Hayes, Dave Feschuk and Keegan Matheson for Hour 2 on OverDrive! Former Canadian MLB Pitcher Ryan Dempster joins the show to discuss the Blue Jays woes this season and drop-off from the 2025 campaign, how fans can affect the game on the field, and what George Springer’s value in the market could be. The guys discuss Mitch Marner’s tenure in Toronto, and break down what his agent Darren Ferris had to say about the animosity between him and the team. The show wraps up with FanDuel Best Bets

Power 2 Overdrive continues. Powered by Fanduil, bringing you more ways to play your game your way. Brian Hayes, Keegan Matheson, Dave Feschuk in here. Blue Jays in action. Ryan Dempster coming up here in a moment. Dave, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but Jonas was on yesterday, and we're pitting the two of them against each other. Now, you are a rare form in this city because you cover all the teams,

and you had the luxury of being in, the Leafs dressing room this past season when it was ugly. The Raptors room where it wasn't an ugly year for the Raps. They had a good year. They had a fun year. You know, fifth in the east, made the playoffs, pushed it to seven. Blue Jays, though, this year not so fun, right? You've seen it all.

You can reason with all these kind of beat reporters who stick to their one team and have to be subjected to whatever that team's going through. I feel for this man. Pity. The real faith, you know, it's the time of the season where my, like, my friends, and this is carefully crafted, most of them aren't sports people. You know, they're not bugging me about the Blue Jays every single day,

but they're the types who will look and like, man, like I'm hearing the Jays are not doing well. Like, I'm sorry you've got to deal with that. Yeah. And it's, you know, most folks don't understand that I don't care if it's a winner. I lost when I go to the game. I care it's a good story. And if I get home early, that's even better.

But, you know, it's a little being around the team and sitting in that room and asking John Schneider questions every day, a little less enjoyable right now. than last year when everyone was happy, almost even happy to see me some days, which is a very high bar, but I would consider them less happy to see me and the topics we bring each day at this point.

Yeah, and again, it's the ups and flows. You know, last year I'm sure you had a lot of people reaching out, saying, man, that must have been so much fun. And it was. And can I get tickets? Yeah, exactly. By the way, hey, hey, you want to know how bad things are in Jay's land,

a lot of people asking if you want to use their tickets. They're available now. A lot of people saying, hey, you need some tickets to the Jays. And not really. People having a tough time offloading those tickets right now. Yeah. But, you know, that'll be an interesting, you know, obviously question and we'll find out the answer.

You know, how much rope comes with a World Series appearance and an incredibly entertaining World Series at that. It was an all-time great series. Like, if you're an objective fan, Without a dog in the race, I'm sure you were like, I can't get enough of this. Can we make this best of nine, best of 11? It's even more incredible if you were a Dodger or a Blue Jay fan. Obviously, we know what happened in the end with the Blue Jays,

but what a ride it was. It was just a thoroughly entertaining series. And as a result, they earned all the hype they got and all the excitement and all the ticket sales and merchandise sales and those tickets for September. Because it's always something you, it's a, it's a bit of a gamble. but you're trying to do the math. Like, okay, I got money to buy some tickets. Do I go early?

Because I really want to go down there again, and I know it's going to be a great vibe. Or do I buy in September with the hope that they're in a playoff race or at a playoff spot? Because that would be even more fun. And I'm sure there's a lot of people kicking themselves. Man, I went with the September choice. People on the wrong end of that decision.

I went with the September choice thinking they would be chasing 100 wins at that point. Not quite, man. But you go to the question about how much rope that buys you. I keep getting asked this. Is John Schneider going to get fired? Is the GM going to get fired? Look at how much rope a wild card bought these guys. Yeah, I mean, this is a trip to the world.

Over and over, I've sat in that room at the end of the year and asked Mark Shapiro, will Ross be back? Ross will John Schneider be back? Yes, yes, yes. There was a lot of rope bought from wildcard appearances. Okay, I think a World Series is going to buy away a long, long leash. Yep. Absolutely.

Well, they all got new deals, right? Ross got a new deal and John Snyder got a new deal. Listen, Mark Shapiro, he said it after they lost a couple years ago, or only had 174 games, I think it was. You know, he said he's a firm believer in continuity and, you know, kind of everyone being in the foxhole together for a long period of time and that that will eventually paid off. And I don't think his mentality is going to change

because of 101 games that haven't gone their way. After a decade of being committed to that philosophy. if you hear. Not what people want to hear, but it's not. Yeah, I don't think he's changing anything. I think the whole crew is going to come back. There's going to be turnover with the roster, for sure. Yeah.

But that's natural. The problem is in a season like this, and we saw it with the Maple Leafs, like when nothing is changing, when the same patterns happen day after day after day, and you lose the same kind of way, and there's the same malaise, which there was in Leafland,

and there is right now around this Blue Jays team, If you're the front office executive and you don't change anything, are you really doing your job? Did Brad Trey-Laving really do his job by basically doing nothing except for firing an assistant coach? I don't think he did. And can you really just afford to watch the season go kaput in front of your eyes when you know something's got to change?

And yet you're not the guy to change it. So who else is going to change it? One thing to say it's on the players that change it, but I mean, if you don't fire the manager, if you don't make a significant trade, you don't shake something up, you know, like they really haven't done anything besides go to the toy store and buy a stuffed dragon on a stick from my view of things.

Oh, you're right. Hasn't worked. Yeah, they haven't. When you do those things, it's got to work. Work for two games. It sure did. When I look at like the, what's coming up, trade deadline off season,

like I think changes the big word. Like, lately they've added. up until Bobeschette left this season and things really took a different shape. It's been slowly adding, adding, adding, on top of the pictures they have on top of George Springer, on top of Vladdy. It's probably time where there's change

that needs to happen, something more fundamental because we've talked about this, even their off-season moves. Sees, Rogers, Spencer Miles, Okamoto. They nailed them. These are all fantastic. There's something more at the foundation of this house that probably needs changing

or refreshing and that's when it gets bold. It gets dangerous and risky, but I think we're probably there to run this back. Yeah, but I think so too. But, you know, the leaf analogy is an appropriate one. They didn't have the same amount of success the year before, which does account for something. When you go to a World Series,

that is worth a lot, literally and figuratively. Yeah. Like this, the company made a fortune off that playoff run, an absolute fortune. And they're still making a fortune, even though the team is as bad as it is right now. So that means something, that accounts for something. The guy at the top, Mark Shapiro, it's very clear,

has a lot of respect within Rogers. Like the owner looks at them very well. I think the whole cast and crew has a lot of time and respect for him, and they're going to listen to him. And if Mark says all these guys are coming back, I don't think that's getting overturned. I wouldn't expect that would happen. But the leaves, you could see it early.

It wasn't going to be good. It was just going to get worse. And I don't think them changing, let's say they changed the coach 30 games in the last season. I still don't think they were going to figure it out personally because the goal tending was as bad as it was. You know, maybe does Matthew still get injured with a new coach? Who knows? But I'd be curious to see what ownership would think of that. Like retrospectively, would it have been worth a shot?

If you're going to make the change at coach anyway, would it have made sense? And if you were going to do that, who would you bring in? Would it be an intern? Would it be Derek Llan would have been the head coach? Steve Sullivan, do you call up? Or would you have possibly hired somebody else? Peter DeBore was sitting there? Maybe Peter DeBore, possibly.

For a long time. I mean, my thing, Hayes, was, you know, if you knew you were going to make the change anyways, and there was indications they probably did know that something was going to change at the end of the season. Like, it would have been nice to have 40 games of data of what playing under a different style would have done for this team. Right?

Like how much of the, how much of the falloff of Austin Matthews and Morgan Riley, just to name two guys who had massive falloffs under Craig Barouba, how much of their falloffs were due to Craig Barouba and his style and what he was asking to do that didn't fit their games. Like at least you could have had 40 games of saying, let's play a style that's more amenable. Let's do the Babcock for Sheldon Keith Trade,

where you're doing a player-friendly coach who's going to bow to the player's wishes and sort of tailor the strategy to what they want and see what you get. I'm with you. It might not have been a lot more wins, but at least you could see how much of this was on the fact that Perubi wanted him to play a style of the Perubi himself called Boring.

Right. Yeah. And, you know, I don't know how it applies. It's not the exact application in baseball. If you get rid of the manager, the manager, you know, he plays a role in the outcome of games differently than the head coach of a hockey team, clearly. For sure.

Systems and ice time and all that. That's John Snyder and, you know, a manager in baseball aren't doing it. They're not doing the same thing. So it would be more of the messaging. It would be more of the kind of expectations. Culture. The culture, et cetera. That's kind of what comes with that change.

But, you know, with the Leafs, it just, it was so ugly they had to make a change. Is this going to get so ugly they feel they have to make a change? I don't picture it because of what happened last year. No, I don't think. I don't picture it. But I can understand. I can understand. why people would say this kind of

fits the bill. Like if it's so ugly and they miss the expectations by so much. People want someone to be sacrificed. That someone, exactly. They want ahead. But that's not generally the way Mark Shapiro and company. No, hasn't been ever. All right. J's again, not in a great place.

But there's a lot going on in baseball. We're literally days away from the trade deadline. And to chat about it, we're joined now by guy that knows the game very, very well. Good Canadian boy. joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. Here's Ryan Dempster. How you doing, Ryan?

I'm doing great, guys. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, thank you for doing this. Obviously, you're aware of what the Jay's been going through here and, you know, massively disappointing season considering the expectations of what happened last year. I don't know if you've been in a situation that, you know, can mirror this, like such an extreme polarization in terms of wins and losses one year to the next.

But if you have and you can speak to it, please do. What do you think the vibe is like in the clubhouse when you're 10 games under 500 and you were in Game 7 in the World Series last year? Yeah, well, I think the early narrative was like, okay, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Okay, we're just going to – but now you're in the final 60 game stretch of the season, and, you know, there's an old saying you're going to win 50 and you're going to lose 50. What do you do with the other 62? Well, you know, you've got to kind of get on it right now, and it's almost because,

coming too little too late. It's just a weird I just didn't see this coming to be honest with you. I looked at their team and look at the production across the board I think you know is down I mean Vladdy this power outage is just so bizarre I can't understand

it isn't a home run at the Rogers City September you know and it's just it's just weird and I can't really put a finger on it I don't know if it's just a hangover I don't know if it's the longevity of last year and O leaves and and guys not healthy in the rotation.

It's just, yeah, it's a strange thing that they're obviously trying to figure out and haven't been able to fix it. Ryan, leading up to the trade deadline, now I'm in the clubhouse an hour a day, but you've been in there when it matters more, when it's just the players. And when you were on a team and you know that the guy next to you, the guy a few lockers down, is being talked about. His name is in the media. He may be a trade candidate.

Is that something that in your experience players are bringing out in the open? Does it depend on the guy? Like, how does that affect a room and the individuals who are in it? The room doesn't really affect. I think, you know, as a room, you know, what you hope is that you're playing good baseball. I think the only time I ever noticed, like, the trade deadline effect guys is when you're playing good baseball and they don't upgrade the team. You're like, man, man, we put ourselves in this position, and we didn't get any help. Like, you guys could have done anything, and it becomes a little disheartening at times.

with certain clubs. I think right now, you know, guys are just trying to scratch and claw their way to a better record. But, you know, individually, sure, I think, you know, I think it affects guys who've maybe been somewhere a long time and then you hear your name coming up. But at the same time, if you're usually a pro, like, you know what's going on. And unless you have some sort of no trade clause, it's out of your control. So you just go out there and try and do what you can that day to help your team win.

Ryan, we were just having the debate of, you know, what a front office can do when a season is just going a direction that is not good. Expectations have been missed by miles and nothing's really changing. There's just a malaise over the club. You know, do you fire the manager? Do you make a big trade? Do you, you know, do you sort of raise holy hell and, you know, break something in the clubhouse? I mean, like there's all kinds of different ideas of how you might put a jolt into a, you know, into a team that's lost its way.

I mean, what's your take on that? Like, how effective can that be? Can you think of an instance in your career where there was a turning point in a season, whether it was a firing or a trade or just something happening, a outburst of emotion? Or do we put too much stock in that type of stuff? Yeah. I mean, sometimes I felt like teams I was on that if we got in some sort of brawl with another team,

especially early on in the season. but if you're looking for a spark right now, like I worry, I worry it's too little too late for the Blue Jays. I hope that's poster board material for them. They put it up in the locker room. I don't know what the motivation is, but you've got to play better baseball than you are right now. There's times it gets a little bit sloppy

when it comes to certain things. And so I think that they, you know, at the end of the day, that's what matters the most. Like you can be like rah, rah, rah. It doesn't mean guys are trying to play harder or anything like that. But I just think like collectively, they just haven't been able to get it.

I mean, they got two guys on their team with double-digit home runs, and one of that's 10 home runs. Like, there's just not a lot of slug. Who would have thought at the start of the season that Acomoto be double the nearest and anybody else on the team? And we don't know, right?

I think that's the other part that is, like, we want to have all these answers. Those guys, we were talking about before the intentional talk today, and I asked here and Kevin, I go, is this, because if you really wrap your head around everything that went on last year.

Playing the Dodgers, the Dodgers, you know, you're trying to slay Goliath and you're got a whole country behind you. You're so close multiple times, a ball in the gap, it gets caught by paw heads. I ever play at home plate, Rojas was able to throw and get them out at home plate by half a step.

You know, all these different things that go on. Base is loaded and Yamamoto, a base hit wins the world. Like all these things, is this one of the biggest hangovers we've seen given the emotional toll of last year? I don't know. And like, it's hard to say that because the season's not over.

They could do it. Look at what the Red Sox just did. Like, nobody's immune to a great hot streak just as things have gone bad. So I just think there's a little bit more to it. Maybe guys, sometimes guys are banged up and they're trying to play things because we can't make excuses ever, right?

We don't want those. That's what we're taught. You don't make excuses. as you make solutions. Well, maybe you guys are trying to fight through things. And it's really hard. And what they went through last year to play all the way to the end of that and then just be like, hey, it's going to be, we're going to get there again.

Really? Look at how many teams have lost a game like that in Game 7 of the World Series and get right back there. You know, it's tough. A collapse can come really fast after that because of the emotional tolls at all. Yeah, and that I think is one theory that makes a lot of sense that it just started snowballing away from them. and they realized we're that much further away from Game 7 the World Series now

and how do you get it back on the rails? They've had a lot of injury problems too. Like there's been other realities. Well, and like, yeah, I look at Texas. I was with Texas, right, in 2012. They went to the World Series in 2010. 2011 had a chance to win the World Series. Josh Hamilton hits the home run.

The next thing, you know, a ball over Nelson Cruz's head, and then we'll see you tomorrow night happens. Well, and then 2012, losing one-game playoff, and then it's been not much success since. So, like, that's how hard it is to stay at the top of the game in your league. That's why when people talk about the Dodgers, what's so impressive is that they're there. I know they have the talent, but, like, you still have to show up every day, and you still have to perform.

And it's not just given because of what you pay somebody or what you give them on paper. Look at the New York Mets. I mean, a $300 million payroll, and they stink. The last team, last place in their division. So, like, there's no guarantees with anything, and that's why I think sometimes that probably would hurt a lot, and it hurts a lot for guys because you realize you're so close, and it's not guaranteed you're even going to be in the playoffs next year,

let alone get back to a World Series. Ryan, that Red Sox team that you mentioned, the Blue Jays, when the Blue Jays were at Fenway a month ago, I couldn't imagine a team looking worse than the Red Sox looked then. and now they win 15 in a row. So they work so well as the counterbalance argument. And you know what it's like to win in Boston and what that city can be like with a good team. I don't think there are many places in baseball like Fenway when their team is good.

What's it been like for you to see that run? And does it kind of bring you back to some of those memories of what type of place Boston can be when the Red Sox are hot? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's unreal, man. I think that's what sometimes is hard for players when they're trying to relay that to their fans. Fans have no idea what a difference maker they can be, an energy and an aura around it. So when you're losing, you're constantly being beat down and you feel it like, let's go, let's go. Imagine being a kid.

We're still kids. I know we're grown men and we're playing the game, but we're still kids inside. And so when you have negative energy around you, you go into a different place, mindset-wise. And then all of a sudden you get into a place where you start winning, and then it becomes this thing where you feel like no matter what the score, you can always come back. Like, you know, whether that was in Boston when I was there,

I felt that way when we won in 2013, a large part had to do with that clubhouse and who we had in there and how it was all going. But also along the way, you know, 2008 with the Cubs, we were down like 9-1 in the game to the Rockies and Lou took everybody out of the game. Just put all the scrubs in, man. Here you go.

Lemons, you're in. We made the best lemonade. We came back and won the game 10-9. And guys like Henry Blanco were hitting homers. It was just, it was this thing where it was just like, holy cow, man. Like this is just what the power is of being able to have positivity around you. And that's what those cities can do and those fan bases can do. and pitching.

I mean, Boston is one of a lot of games. Really good pitching. You know, that will do it. If you execute and you're good on the mound, you know, obviously you've got to play good baseball, but you can feed off that as you get going and those fan bases like that. And we've talked about this.

I've talked about it with you guys. In Toronto, you have one of the most special places. The Rogers Center is so loud and so obnoxious that that is home field advantage. We saw it in the playoffs. It can be raucous. It's tough. And so I think, you know,

know for, you know, Blue Jay fans to try and understand this moment, but it's hard to have patience with your team when you're expecting another World Series run, and it's not quite there. You talk about the kid inside you, Ryan. I mean, last year it felt like George Springer was drinking from the fountain of youth on a nightly basis. He was the MVP of the Blue Jays in a lot of ways, and this year, there's been a falloff, right?

The feels like Father Times catching up, and yet, you know, he's one of these, you know, pending free agents that the Blue Jays have to dangle at the trade deadline. And, you know, he'll be 38 in September. What's your take on how teams might view him? Because he has hit a little better in the past week or so, shown a little bit more signs of the George Springer who can be very effective. And he also has that incredible clutch time resume, being a former World Series MVP,

hit one of the biggest home runs in Blue Jays' franchise history just last fall. Do you see him as somebody that could be attractive to a would-be contender? The thing is, I would say, yeah, but when you see the numbers in, like you mentioned, you know, maybe a little bit better recently, so that helps, you know. The last seven games, almost 300 with an OPS over 800, but, you know, what are you giving up? You're not getting a lot back in return. You get a draft pick compensation for him if you don't. I'm correct, or did they get rid of that now?

I don't know. Yeah, experience matters in the playoffs. I just think, you know, I want to catch George. Like, we saw him last year. Facts, right? He was grinding through a lot of stuff physically, trying to get out there every day in the postseason. The amount of stuff that goes on,

it's like it happens so much where people don't realize the injuries that guys are dealing with because they don't say anything. They just take some anti-inflammatories, pain killers, whatever they got to do to go out there because you don't know when it's going to happen. Well, that has a lingering effect into the next year and maybe just a little bit slower start for him.

And the fact that he's hitting the ball a little bit better right now, is that another week of that? Do the Blue Jays win games? And you climb back into this. Like, so many things are determined in the next week as to what teams are going to do. But if I'm a team and I'm looking for a right-hand-of-bat, maybe one that I can give a tough day off to tough right-eat-eat-off to tough right-ies.

George Springer, why wouldn't somebody want that on a team? This guy's a multiple-time World Series chance. and a guy who's performed on the biggest stage. So, yeah, I think he is a track team. He is Ryan Dempster, co-host of Intentional Talk, and you see him on the MLB Network. We always love having you on, Ryan. We'll do it again soon.

Thank you for this. Yeah, you bet, and hopefully things turn for the Blue Jays up there in Toronto and the city can enjoy another playoff run, but they've got to get it going. They sure do. They won today. So that's a good start. Here we go.

Streak starts today. I love it. All right, guys. Thanks, Ryan. Joining us show to Maple Toyota Hotline. It's time to Toyota. Checkout Toyota, Toyota Tundra pickup trucks, both available as hybrids. Maple Toyota near Canada's want to land on the Maple Auto Mall.

Jay Bieber had another really good outing. Like seven innings, only give up one earned. A lot of people. That's back-to-back start. That's the most important thing that's happened this week. Like if you have a couple good ones for Shane Bieber, suddenly people remember he won't say young and that he's been really, really damn good.

That's important today. That's, hey, we might be able to get something here. type of material. A real thing. Springer, two for three with a double. You're on board with that. I mean, look, I'm with Demster. You're probably not getting a ton for George Springer. But you could get something. What do you think? Can you get

something of significance for him? You would need to eat his money. Right. Because what does he have this year, 24, 25 mil? Which means that by the trade deadline, you've got 7, 8 mil left. So other teams are probably going to look at the Blue Jays and say, hey, we'll give

you X prospect. But if, you eat 5 million bucks, we'll give you one that's way better. And I think the Jays can do that and should do that. It is their strength, and it's a rare thing a team can do right now. So basically buy a better process. Yeah. Springer plus cash for a prospect that might actually... Same with Gosman. It's a money deadline, man.

Yeah, he's got some money. Well, they need youth, man. They need a next wave. Yeah. Yeah, that's, again, something that comes at you quickly is, you know, obviously everyone was so focused on this season. as you would expect they would be. But everyone knew,

Gosman was one-year deal, Bieber was in one-year deal, sure that was going to be it. No one actually really thought they were going to bring them back, and then all of a sudden they found a way to do that. Springer was up, Varsha was up. Those are massive pillars of the organization. And those guys, none of them have performed

to an extent that you're going to keep them. And when you can coincide that with the fact that there are nine games under 500, it makes that even more obvious. So they've got some, holes to fill. Once you get through the final 59 games and you get to the offseason, like Ross Atkins

is going to have to be very active. And, you know, they've got a farm system, obviously, with guys coming, but a lot of their best players are still like years away or seem that way. Younger, single A, Joe Joe Parker's and Singley, Juan Sanchez, Argentine Mala's in AA, but like they need

foundational guys. We're not talking about a team that needs a fourth reliever. We're talking about bases of this team they need. Right. Like, who who plays center field. That's a prominent position. Big deal. I don't know who that's going to be. No. When Varsho's gone, I don't think that guy's on the team right now.

And they haven't developed a star outfield. I mean, like a all-star caliber since Kevin Pilar's peak, but really Vernon Wells. Yeah. Been a minute. Yeah, that's going back a ways. Yeah. That's going back a long, long way. Best Bet's powered by Fanduel coming up a little bit later in the hour. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on TSN4. I Heart Radio is throwing it back. 20s, the decade.

To the days of huge hits. An unforgettable anthem. A nonstop stream of the biggest and best. Drake, Rihanna, Beyonce, Katie Gaga, the weekend. And more. All your decade defining favorites all in one place. Hi, it's Katie Perry. Hey, it's Bruno Mars.

This is Keshe. Find 2010s the decade on the free IHeart Radio app. Preset the station so it's always one tap away. All right, Best Bed is coming up later in the hour. The 3M is off and running down in beautiful Minneapolis, Minnesota. I was shocked. I can't believe Sheffler's playing in that tournament. I can't believe if he'd go to Minneapolis.

I can't believe it. I was not aware he was in the field until this morning. I looked at it. I said, that's Scotty Sheffler playing after being in Europe for three weeks, finishing top five at the open. I missed the cut of the Scottish, so maybe that picked him off. something's got to give there. He's got a family there,

or they must be paying him a fortune to do something. Because nobody else is in the tournament. There's a big story in Minneapolis today about exactly what you're saying. Like, how did we get this? What the hell is this guy doing? Why is he here? He's never been here before.

He'll probably never be here again, because the 3M's one of those tournaments, is probably going to be the three-track system. It's going to be track too. That's a track tour, if I've ever seen it. That's off-track. Yeah, that's way off-track. But yeah, they're celebrated.

Yeah, like it's basically they're passing it off as great relationships with the tournament director and his agents. And the scheduling works for him because of this and this and this. But he didn't want to have three weeks off coming into the playoffs apparently. So he figured he'd play this one. But I don't know. Hey, good for them. It does. It does seem as though there may have been a nice outing somewhere where he got a very large check.

That can happen sometimes. Yes. You know, you can fly in here. We've got some Target people that want to meet you. You know, the Target family wants to pick out. Oh, huge Target City. Target loves me. That's the home of Target, right?

It's Minnesota. Target. Target. Every year when I get the Blue Jay's schedule, I do a quick scan through. And one thing I'm looking for is that M-I-N on the white squares for road games. And I get busy those days. You find a way? There's a wedding.

Yeah. Immediately. Every year. If you had to rank the top of your head, the five worst spots in Major League Baseball. And I'm not talking to park. You know, because there's some, there are, you know, some towns that are kind of grittier towns, but the park is really cool.

Or the history of the team is kind of incredible. Or the team's a really good team, and you're actually excited to go see them watch some play. I'm talking, I got to get in there, I got to stay there, and then I got to get out of there. A haters list. A haters list. So my factors lean much more towards selfishness, my personal convenience, That's all, exactly. Temperature, these types of things.

To Midwest, I don't do much, fellas. When I get my schedule each year, I'm looking for mini. I'm looking for Cleveland. Maybe I'm looking for Kansas City. There's a Casey Cleveland one coming up that I don't know if I'm too wild about. Avoid that. I have been hotter and more miserable in the city of Baltimore than anywhere else in my entire life. Is that right?

It is like marshland when you get in there. I have done some TV appearances on this fine network from Baltimore that I, I need to get scrubbed. I look like an R&B singer at the end of a solo. Just dab in my forehead. I am Patrick Ewing in double overtime. I love it. Buckled over.

Good for you. But it's normally the, and those are the cities where the big one for me, for example, Boston coming up, I'll fly in tomorrow straight to the stadium with my suitcase in the press box and then Sunday night straight to the airport back.

Like limited nights. I'm on the road, 100, 120 nights a year. I want limited. But when you end up in KC or something, that's when you're hopping on a 5 a.m. connector through Chicago to get back by noon. Yeah. And I'm cranky, right?

So flight convenience. I know these are incredible tragedies and people weeping at home. But it's a reality. But the travel realities, man. But the Midwest and Midwest is where you'd circle. Yeah. I'm assuming you'd exclude Chicago. Because Chicago is a great deal.

Is maybe my favorite place in the world. It's a phenomenal. Oh, my God. I mean, you'd take it or leave it? Really? It wouldn't be, I'd much rather go to a lot. New York. I'd much rather go to L.A. I'd much rather go to San Fran. I mean, there's

a long list. I'd much rather go to Boston, to be honest with you. Really? I wouldn't put San Fran ahead of Chicago. No? No chance. Not in the summer. I wouldn't. In the winter area, bro? Not a huge... I've done the big... Yeah, I've done it a couple times.

I was just said, Diego might be my number one. A little place called Pebble. Yeah. Byglass. Okay, that's a different story. You're saying, hey, you could go play Cyprus Point? Sure. Yes, I would love to be a part of that. That would be amazing. If that's what we're talking about, then that's That I'd like to go to Georgia. You ever heard of Augusta?

It's a beautiful town. That's the environs. I mean, I'm just saying. No, I got it. It's a beautiful spot. It's a great, it is a gorgeous country. You know, it's a gorgeous part of the country is the Bay Area. San Fran's a gritty town, no.

It's a very gritty town. It's to the point of being scary at times. San Diego, I'd much, like take San Diego. In New York. Over Chicago. Over Chicago. No, I wouldn't. Not in the summertime.

Dude, Chicago's, the steakhouses, the restaurants, It's the vibe. It's like Toronto. Like Toronto in the summer is an unbelievable place. I live in Toronto. I don't want to go to a place like Toronto. But yeah, I hear you. But I'm saying like you give me San Diego, January. Of course, I'm taking that over Chicago all day. But you give me Chicago in July.

It's tough to beat that, man. Put me on the architecture riverboat cruise for the 40th time. I don't care. All day. And then plot me down with a nice Guinness at 2pm. Oh my God. You can't be Michigan Avenue in the summer. You can't beat it.

I'm not saying it's not in my top 10. I'm just saying it's down in my top 10. It's not even. Find your top five. You're not putting Chicago in your top five. It's a nice thing. Like, hey, Ferris, Wheeler's Day Off proved it. I mean, it's a great town to have a day off.

Well, you know what's cool about Chicago, which obviously you have in L.A., you have it in New York, is the fact that they get the two teams going is really cool. Like, I've been there when they both, obviously, they both play all the time. They're always playing every single night. but when they're both in town and it's just it's the same thing in New York and New York's even bigger, it's even crazier.

But when the Yankees and the Mets are both playing, they're both playing well, it is so cool to be able to go for dinner at night and both games are on different TV. It's cool. And that's something I've always envied. I've always wanted that here. And the only possible option would be

if there was two NHL teams and I'm not holding my breath. I'm not convinced that will ever happen. But the idea of being in a in a huge city where there's the great divide, so to speak. That's really cool stuff. Can't beat it. Yeah, like family members that are White Sox fans and then Cubs fans.

Love Shaz. It's amazing. I'll tell you what, though. I'm a Deep Dish hater. You've said that before, which I hate a disagree with. I can't do it. I'm a deep dish guy. Well, it's not an everyday occurrence.

It couldn't possibly do it even on a weekly basis. And I think that's my issue. When in Rome, you've got to fire up a deep dish in Chicago. I still recall the first time I was taken out for Deep Dish in Chicago. Some of the older writers took me out to one of the local spots. And it was an off night. So, of course, I would like to have one, two, seven beers, whatever it was. A beer does not go with a deep dish pizza.

No. There's no room. It's not. There's nowhere to go. It's a heavy, heavy night. The beer lives in your throat the rest of the evening. Yeah. It's very tough.

If you're doing a deep dish, you got to shut the mill down almost immediately. It's a water. Like, it's effectively, exactly. It's a sleeping device. Okay, I want to play one of these clips. We referenced it earlier. the Puckpedia podcast where Darren Ferris, who is a big agent in the NHL,

and everyone in Toronto knows him because he's Mitch Marner's agent who's known about Darren for a long time. And he did an interview recently, and he was asked about Mitch's time in Toronto, and it's a long interview. You know, like you take clips. Answers are long, like his answers on Mitch were like seven, seven and a half minutes long.

He was talking. Oh, yeah. But he was asked about, you know, his tenure here and whether or not the team, I guess, you know, how he feels about the team protecting Mitch, because obviously Marner didn't, he felt like he was getting picked on more than other players. I think that's well documented right now.

And in some ways he did, at some times he did. Sure, there are other times where William Nylander would say, I've kind of been subjected to every possible mock trade ever made. Austin Matthews in his camp, I'm sure at times would say, well, I've been taking a lot of heat the last two. years since he took the captaincy and they haven't been winning. And this year in particular, he took a lot of heat, which is true. If you're one of the best players and you're one of the highest paid players, spotlight's going to be on you. But in Marner's instance, it was pretty

clear. It has become clear that he thought he was isolated more than the other guys. And here's what Darren Farris had to say about the relationship, beliefs, Marner, etc. There was a lot of misinformation. So we just kept spiraling into, you know, information that. that created a, I guess made him the villain here in the city. You know, as time went on, you know, Mitch became the focus of everything. Scrutonized for every game, him and his family criticized after every loss. And at, you know, at points receiving threats on social media, which was disturbing. You know, I received plenty of disparaging comments and misguided reports myself.

and there was a hysteria that, you know, Mitch was, you know, you got to remember Mitch was carjacked in Toronto and every year the team came up short. He was the one singled out and, you know, it's funny because hockey is a team game, you know, you can't pinpoint one person. This is a guy that, you know, that the most have the most playoff points on the team and who played through a fractured ankle in Boston. in the Boston series there. And he really bled for that team. And he was never protected by his organization, in my opinion. So what do you think he means by that? Or what were they hoping for in retrospect?

What type of protection could the Leafs give Mitch Marner? Well, what he's pointing to is just the list of grievances, right? Like the whole Babcock thing and how Babcock picked on him and has singled him out and embarrassed him in front of the team by revealing those lists that he made him right and all the weird psychological warfare that he went with back in those days that is still, you know, hindering Babcock to this day. I mean, the fact that he wasn't, you know, he wasn't considered for captaincy. He didn't get the schedule B bonuses and Matthews did. The fact that all these things that they've compiled a list of wrongs, right? Right. If they've compiled the list of things that shouldn't have happened if he was treated properly by the Maple Leafs.

And they, to their credit, they believe them. this day and they speak them like the gospel. And as you see, they don't let them die because it's 11 years on since Mitch Marner first signed that entry-level deal that irked the Marner camp at the time and irked them even more as time went on

and they won't let it go. I just don't know the protection. That's what I'm getting at. Like signing bonuses, who are you protecting him from? Is I guess what I'm asked? From what? Is the financial protection? But it can't be because then they paid him. He was like the fourth or fifth highest paid player in the

league after being in the league. And it wasn't controversially low. No, exactly. And like I just sense like that there's some delusion there, the idea that they were going to protect him from social media trolls. How would how would the Maple Leafs possibly do that? Or how can any team do that?

Were they supposed to get on the air and start yelling and screaming at me and other people that were criticizing his play or other, you know, things about his game? I don't I just don't understand that They didn't protect him properly

in Darren Ferris's opinion from who and from what because you can't control the mob. You can't control fans in their opinions. You can't control what people are going to say or right. You can't if you feel like it was, if they're lying about something, like maybe that's what he's pointing to

that there should have been more true about whatever was out there. I don't know what it would have been. Again, I can't even give you examples of where the Marner camp could say the Leafs and I guess would have been Brendan Shanahan in particular. Yes.

Because they probably looked at him as you're the top guy. You're the guy that runs the organization throughout the years that Marner was here. That's all they knew was Shanahan running the operation. What could Shanahan have done privately or publicly that would make the Marner camp 11 years later feel like they didn't work out? Leaf fans were tough on us at times,

but you guys protected us properly. What could they have done that Vegas is doing now? Or is that not apply in Vegas because it's a day? different market. It's not as loud. I don't know. Is Kelly McCriman protecting him in a way that Kyle Dubas didn't or Lou Amarillo? I just don't understand what that's supposed to mean.

The bonuses and stuff, is it ridiculous? They're still, that they have a gripe 11 years later? Sure. But it's a reasonable gripe. I understand what they're saying. You gave it to Matthews a year later. And told us you wouldn't. Exactly. That's 100% justifiable. Right. Leave fans, whatever. You can roll your eyes

and say, get over it. Yes, they should get over it. clearly. Guys made $130 million in his career or whatever. And when it all is said, and done, Mitch Marner is going to be one of the richest players to ever play the sport. Yes. It'll be top five or top ten all time when he's done. So Mitch is not losing any meals or losing over any sleep over his finances.

Those bonuses were going to add up to like $2 million. That's nothing for this guy. It was the matter of principle. But it was the principle. It was a legitimate gripe. I don't, I understand why they said this is, what are you guys doing? My guy, yes, I didn't go fourth overall or first overall. I went fourth, though.

Marner wasn't a third round pick. He wasn't a college-free agent. He was a fourth overall pick. So I get that gripe. But the not protecting him to me is just asking something of the Leaves that is completely unreasonable and not possible. Yeah. The Leifes can't protect you from fans online.

It's not, it can't happen. I think what he's, he also said within that interview, that he sincerely believed that the Leifes never thought Marner would turn into the player he turned into. In other words, my guy succeeded in spite of them. My guy succeeded, even though they had a coach that was unreasonably hard on him and played weird psychological tricks on him, he still succeeded. Even though you screwed him on the bonuses, he still succeeded.

Even though you didn't believe in him and you believed in other guys more than him, he still succeeded. I think that's what he's getting at. And if it is, then that's even more ridiculous and delusional. Again, they took him fourth overall. who drafts someone fourth overall and doesn't think that that guy's going to turn into a great player. That's a great point.

I don't see the tragedy. He didn't spend one day in the minors. Not one. He went from junior right into the lineup and played a ton of minutes in every scenario immediately. But it's 1% problems. He didn't put the C on his jersey.

You didn't even think about it. You didn't give him the most money. You gave him the second most. Or the third most after, actually after Tavaris. When it came to cap, bit. You know, you didn't, you know, they, like, and I'll say this, is, you know, if, if Aaron Ferris was my agent, you know, I'd probably want him to tone it down publicly,

but I would appreciate that he was so delusionally bent on making a case for me. Yeah. Listen, and that's, that's the role of the agent. That's any player, they're looking for an agent that's 100% committed to your cause. That's the way you employ anybody like that. That's exactly what you're looking for. I get no problem with Dad. I get no problem with Darren Ferris being pro-Mitch Marner. Of course he is.

And of course he should be. And he doesn't work for the Maple Leafs. He doesn't work for Vegas. Doesn't work for any of these teams. So, like, that's a side story. That's a different thing. And there's some of the details within the weeds that, okay, I can reason with that. Of course, you love your player.

You love your guy, you know, with family members, friends, agents, whatever. They're pro-Mitch Marner. He's a great player. I totally understand that. But the idea that the Leafs didn't do enough to protect him, in my opinion, is ridiculous. Well, they mismanaged the asset. There's no denying that. Well, exactly, but that has nothing to do with protection.

They should have traded them well in advance. And that complaint seems to go beyond what an agent does. The money talk I get. I've got all the time in the world for that. An agent should be very concerned with his client's money. And if I had that agent, I'd want them very concerned with my money. I want it to be the number one thing they think of when they wake up. But the Maple Leafs are not going to get in there and block people on Twitter.

and protect you from all of that stuff. And at a certain point, if you want that stuff to go away, stop talking about it. Stop bringing attention to it and giving oxygen to a fire. It comes off as the person sitting at a dinner party just sighing, wanting someone to ask what's wrong. Okay, stop drawing attention to it, and it might just go away. Guys, I'll tell you, one thing about this,

it's somewhat unusual that agents come out and say this publicly. The hockey agents in general are conduct their business. business in the weeds. Yeah, they speak to the inside as they speak to the GMs, but they don't get on a megaphone and yell from the mountaintops. But this is not an unusual gripe, I will tell you, from a hockey agent to the world. These things are often said privately, but when it comes out publicly, there's a lot of people to shake their head and think these guys are delusional.

There's a victim mentality. Yes. with a lot of great players who somehow think they're being screwed over. Yes. And that might be why they're great. It's like Michael Jordan. I took that personally.

I took that personally. Yep. Absolutely. All right, Best Men's coming up. Overdrive continues up on YouTube live. The newest tracks. Let's go. New music.

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I think we need something new. Discover IHeart new music. Always fresh. Always first. Stream now on the free IHart Radio app. All right, Best Betts powered by Fanduel. Make your picks and assemble a same game parlay in seconds on the Fandual Sportsbook app. We've got a barn burner in the Midwest tonight.

Tigers Royals. Tigers Royals, both teams stink. They're both so bad. I'm on Detroit tonight because they're at home. That's the analysis. I like it. I'm on Detroit. At home, you've got to pay some juice on that.

But I'm going to take the Tigers. As bad as Detroit has been, Kansas City has been worse. There's another town that. You didn't mention Detroit. Maybe you got a soft spot for the city, man. A city on the come-up, much like Pittsburgh. It's on the come-up. It's in the sweet spot where the downtown area is on the come-up

but has not gotten trendy and the cocktails are not $19. I like it. There you go. Best bet's powered by Fandual. Same game, Parlay is available for every MLB game on the Fandul Sportsbook. Yeah, please play responsibly. 19 plus, physically located in Ontario. Jays with a win today, Shane Bieber played another great outing for him.

That's two starts in a row where he's looked good. So we'll see what that means for him and his marketplace. And see what comes out of it tonight. Jay's in Boston tomorrow. Safe travels. Great town. Boston's a great time. Not in the top five hater list.

Boston and in Fenway Park. All right, Keegan, Dave, great seeing you guys. Great to be here. Thanks for doing us, as always. Thanks to everyone behind the scenes for hopping out. We appreciate it. Everyone for tuning in today, TV radio podcast, web, up on YouTube live, and soon to be streaming up on Crave. We're out of here.

Enjoy your evenings. Enjoy the games tonight. We're back tomorrow at 4 p.m. We'll chat then. I'm Cynthia Lloyds, and I'm Josie Dye. And we're done pretending we have it all figured out. Each week we laugh, cry, and talk our way through life's messiest moments. you think about but would never say out loud.

The questions you are always too shy to ask. Relationships, regrets, awkward moments, and the stuff no one warns you about. It's honest, it's funny, and sometimes it gets a little uncomfortable. But that's kind of the point. This is Cynthia and Josie's Unmentionables. Listen on the free IHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.