OverDrive - OverDrive - June 25, 2025 - Hour 2

Episode Date: June 25, 2025

Join Bryan Hayes, Jeff O'Neill and Jamie McLennan for Hour 2 on OverDrive! TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger joins to discuss John Tavares and Matthew Knies' contract advancement, Evander Kane's trade to the Canucks and Thatcher Demko's future in Vancouver. They also dive into the mindset of contract negotiations, the balance of getting paid in a salary cap world in the NHL and taking less to win the PR game.

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all others to become Motor Trend's number one compact SUV. Right now, finance a new Rogue from just 0% for up to 60 months. That's a finance offer that's better than other Japanese and Korean competitor SUVs. Hurry into your local dealer and drive away in the award winning Nissan Rogue. Conditions apply. See Nissan.ca for details. Hour two overdrive continues. Brian Hays, the old dog'Neill, Jamie Noodle, and McClennan. We've got Jerry's percentages later in the hour. Darren Drager coming up. I might have a new favorite NBA player who will be drafted tonight because he sees the world the way I see the world.

In what sense? That's scary scary by the way. It is. It is very scary. But Ace Bailey, who's a kid that's coming out of Baylor. Great name. Great name. Ace Bailey, exactly. Hockey player's name in the NBA. But he hasn't been showing up to anything.

He hasn't been doing any workouts, any interviews, and the belief is he's doing that to effectively sabotage his way from being picked by Charlotte or Utah because the top three look set, like it's Cooper Flag, you know, and we think we know, you never fully know, but we think we know who's going second and who's going third in charlotte utah pick fourth and fifth of this belly kid is projected to go to one of those places i think you said it last year haze or in in one of the times the arrived at a late for yes right now you've griped about the relevant franchises like if you want to talk about an organization that's been

trudging through the mud, the Charlotte Hornets, my God, man. And that's what I'm saying. Like, I appreciate this guy because he's like, I'm not going to Charlotte or Utah. I'm 20 pounds overweight. I've got a bad attitude and I want no part of this. You don't want, now the problem he's got is Washington picks sixth and they're just as bad it just as irrelevant yeah it's not where's he gonna go that like is he gonna eat

himself right down to what 23rd where he can know and KD or something like that you know what I mean one of these teams gonna take them you know like the the mock drafts have Cooper flag going one D Dillon Harper two to San Antonio, VJ Edgecombe going to Philly at three and then it's wide open. Like it could be Bailey, it could be any other guy, but it's a it's a death row of just disasters. Charlotte, Utah, Washington, New Orleans. That's the next four picks all four teams are horrible irrelevant have never won anything and Yeah, I kind of I like this guy. I like that. He's like I'm gonna sabotage this like get me down to Brooklyn at eight Maybe the Raptors I doubt it. You won't be on the board at nine, but that's kind of What it sounds like is going on here with ace Bailey ahead of the draft tonight. It is a good name ace Bay

It's a great name great. Yeah, that yeah that's great but yeah we'll see we'll see what comes of it tonight and josh lewenberg will join us in about an hour get jay lou's take on that and what the rappers could do at nine darren dragger coming up here in a moment looks like Riley Smith has signed a new deal a one year deal to stay in Vegas right so he was team friendly deal that's the old state taxer isn't it I mean he he was team friendly deal. Uh, that's the old state taxer, isn't it? I mean, he, he was a really good Vegas gold night when they first got him. He was probably like, I don't want to go another place.

Like, has he bounced around? He was with the Rangers pit. He got back there and he's like, he's probably got some cash in the bank. And he's like, give me the two sheets and I'll stick around. If it works out, maybe we do it again. Yeah. Not a bad place to like, they're, they sheets and I'll stick around. If it works out, maybe we do it again. Not a bad place to, like, they're gonna be building something out there in Vegas where guys that play there,

like, a lot of times guys, the house is just like an asset and when they leave, it's like, up for sale, give me the money. There's probably a lot of guys that are gonna be like, I like to retire in Vegas and this is just gonna be a great setup, man. Be involved with the organization. I don't know, I always, I talked to retire in Vegas and this is just gonna be a great setup man be involved with the organization I don't know I always thought I talked to my wife about retiring in Vegas would be pretty cool to go like go just watch

practice and go to Vegas go to night games and like that would be pretty cool man it's a cool spot man no kidding you talked to guys there the verbs though that's the thing. That's where the thing is is those guys rarely like it's funny like we all live in the suburbs of Toronto like to go downtown it's a it's a it's a big trek so I don't know I mean I think it's not that big of a trek I hear you but it's not crazy. It's an hour it's an hour to drive to the grocery store in this place these days. Well Toronto's a different that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that tsn hockey insider darren trigger what's uh... what's the latest out in vegas trades were just talking about riley smith side of the hour for two million that that doesn't

but a damper on their pursuit of mitch marner i would assume i wouldn't think so no uh... again when you mean we look at the history in the tractor to tell him a crime in especially uh... like bill field like talking and really give me any it's a game of chess and he always seems to be a step or two ahead. Now there's going to have to be some significant maneuvering, either using LCIR again, right, or moving players out to comply before the start of the regular season if Mitch Marner

ends up going there. Obviously, there's a lot of work ahead, but McCormick has it figured out and he's probably got multiple trade conversations happening. I know there was a total hurdle trade, rumors of yesterday, the day before that was debunked, things like that. It's gonna be ongoing around basically every player on that team until we smoke through free agency and it

becomes apparent as to what their next move is there. It just stays true to Vegas though, Draggs. They'll just keep tinkering and they'll believe in a guy and bring him in and if it doesn't work it's like they don't wait around and say, oh, we're going to honor the contractor, give this guy three years to prove his worth. They get a look-see and if they don't like it, they'll tinker and they'll want to bring in a different player. And I give them credit for that, man.

It's business. But McCrimmon would be offended by me saying that as bluntly as that because he cares for his players. Yeah, of course. Yeah. But look at the challenge every single season since the Vegas Golden Knights broke in on the national hockey league by expansion from Bill Holden, the owner is go and win a Stanley Cup.

And I remember, you know, when when they first kind of acknowledged that we all sort of chuckled, but if you're going to win a Stanley Cup in the first few years, but here we are. And every year they're a top contending team. So when your owner is fully on board then isn't that management's job? Like yes you can collect top end guys but there was no guarantee when they inquired Jack Eichel from the Buffalo Sabres and he went through a surgical procedure which was

inflammatory at the time that it was going to work out the way that it has, right? Well, if it didn't work out, okay, well then you figure something else out. And they do that as well as any. The better destination of choice, no different little Florida teams and that helps as well. So Dragg's Evander Cain gets traded. We're starting to see some movement here in the league. Do you sense that there is more trades brewing as opposed to maybe free agent because maybe the list is a little thinner than expected?

Yeah, I think that there are trades brewing, but it's a bit of a circus trick to try and pinpoint exactly who or what we're talking about here. I kind of sound like a broken record in talking about Bo Byram and the Buffalo Sabres, but man there's a lot of activity around that guy. And Adams has made it abundantly clear he's not moving him until or unless he gets exactly what he wants, he wants a right shot D coming back. I mean, that's perfect scenario, right? There could be other pieces that sway his decision, but more or less, it's contractual, Byrom has our rights, and then you could walk him into free agency with a two-year deal.

Probably, Vustase and Buffalo gets a one-year deal, but even if he gets traded, you know, the team that acquires Bo Byrom could have a challenge in getting a longer-term contract extension, and it's because of the carrot that is the expanding salary cap. Like what is the salary cap gonna look like three, four years from now, especially if you're a top defenseman. And that's what Bo Byron believes he will be when he moves out of the path of Bowen Power

and Rasmus Dalí. So that's a hotspot for all of us, I think. Beyond that, yeah, there's lots of trade conversations. Picks are also, you know, when you get this close to round one, which is Friday, first round draft picks are currency and they become significant trade bait. And so I did a little bit of trolling around the league, especially with the clubs that have at least two first round picks. And I think there's a couple with three first round draft picks, including Nashville.

What are they going to do with those picks? Well, the majority of the teams that I touch base with, if they've got more than one first round pick, they'd like to keep the higher of the two or three first round picks. But the other picks are in play. So, I mean, we could see multiple first round draft picks get exchanged as part of either players moving up, moving down, that sort of thing. Dreggs, if you had to ask Stan, like, you can only give me one reason, and it's the real reason that Evander Kane left Edmonton, what would it be?

Like, is it money? Was it the discipline problems in the playoffs? Like, why was he moved? No, money. That's the primary reason. You know, look, at the end of the day, Evander Kane didn't contribute enough in the Stanley Cup final, but you could say that about a number of different players. Oh yeah.

You know, I'm not convinced that Edmonton was going to beat Florida, period, the way that the Packers played in game five and in game six. But I think Pierre Lebrun speculated on, on social media about, okay, well Kane is cap relief and Victor Arbetson could be the next run on the ladder of moment in the Edmonton orders, trying to, to relieve some of that pressure. Let's not forget that Leon Dreisaitl's contract kicks in as of next season. So that's a big cap hit. And then you've got Evan Bouchard who they're in the early process now of negotiations and you know what does that feel going to look like and on and on and goes. So it was

mostly cap relief around Kane getting moved. With Derek Dreger and in terms of Vancouver you know we've talked about their goaltending situation. That's your a damn co he's got a contract he hasn't played a lot you know it barely played last year he said real injury issues now uh... like is demko where does this go with that code and is that cover the position of leverage or would they be out of just a load him

uh... i'm confused no i'm co status around the league yeah so for me anyway it changed a little bit as today unfolded. I'm going to talk a bit more about this tonight on SportsCenter because it did make sense until recently that Vancouver would have to consider trading Factor Demko. If they're not comfortable with his long-term health, well then why would you commit to a bigger contract like Audinger or Swainman or a deal like that? And I, I don't know what the firm numbers are. I don't know what the term is that's being discussed by the Vancouver Canucks and factor Demco's representatives. Um,

but I was told by a couple of teams midday today that Demco is again, more or less now off the market. There was a team in the East that was pretty interested in Demco. There'd be lots of teams that would be interested. Didn't like the sticker price. Whatever it was, the ask was really, really high, but they still had interest. So I got poking around that a little bit more and I wouldn't call it close or imminent. I don't like using those words because things know the sideways pretty quickly, but it does sound like progress is being made on a multi-year extension

uh... and i'm drag say it's done now it's not though it's not an end and then look for me the hit the player side and management for the the man cover connected with knowledge that it's instill in an open and ongoing negotiation but more from players i'd i'd side I got the sense that the extension multi-year was far more likely than trade at this point. So then you know basically what they're saying is they're going to probably go at it with

Demko and Lankanen and they got Sheloff there who needs waivers. So you know would that present a trade for Shilof then? Because I don't know what you get for him in a trade, but that's in the end. If you're extending Demko and you've got Lankanen's deal kicking in this year on an extension, you're going to have 10 million bucks in gold tenders, which is fine. I mean, a lot of teams have that, but it kind of leaves the odd man out because I don't think you'll get Shilofs to the miners through waivers. Probably not, and that makes sense, Noodles.

And the other thing too is even though you've got a lower paid salary than Shilov, you're still lucky at every cap savings you can. It's not like the Vancouver Canucks are overrun with cap space. They still love some, but they also have needs, right? I mean, they bring in a Vander Cane. Okay, well, they get maybe a bit faster, a little bit more competitive and all those things, but they're still in the market strongly for a center. How are they requiring that person? What are they using as bait? Maybe it's a roster player or roster players that you know help their cap situation they they do have caps take a look what is

around seven million uh... when when they're all said and done by you're probably not going to keep those three goalies so she loves makes a lot of sense that he could be in play with their triggers so the least do not have a first round pick for the next three years uh... so you know friday nights Yeah, I don't know what Brad sure livings doing But you might have his feet up watching the you know, the tallies years. Yeah, they've traded away first round picks They don't have any like I think there's no protection on a couple of them

So it can roll over if everything falls apart But you know, we know Tavares Matthew N, Mathew Nyes, that's been a big story. Putting those two aside, unless you have an update on that, what else are the Leafs trying to do here? What do you think Brad Treloving is trying to attack in terms of his roster building plan? Yeah, I mean a little bit of everything. He's trying to add more competitive players. You know, there's some names that will surprise you that we know are out there

like Jarn Croak and David Camp and guys like that on the trade front. But that's probably lower down the list. I mean, you know, again, teams are big game hunting or bigger game hunting right now on the trade front. And then you go into free agency and you shop around there and you see what it looks like. And if you don't get the player or players that you're looking for, then maybe you explore the interests that you might have and the players that I've mentioned from the Maple Leagues. Yeah, I mean, he's grinded away on Tavares and Nyes. There's no doubt about that.

And you know, this morning it sounded like it was really slow moving. I think that there's been progress made today. And I'm careful and hesitating in how I describe this because to be fair, I don't know if it's solely with Tavares. And if it is, I'm fascinated to understand and see what the complexity of that deal would look like. But, you know, he's been grinding away on Matthew Nyes as well. Those two guys are obviously the priorities you head into the weekend. I think he'd like to get them done ASAP so that you can focus on the draft. If there's a trade that makes some sense, OK, well that can happen in Los Angeles as well. Well, not that Trilling will be there.

But then you flip over on July 1st to focusing on, okay, well Florida hasn't signed Brad Marsh and yet what does that deal look like? Let's kick in the free agency here. So his plate is full. There's a lot going on. But again, it does, it smells like there's at least some progress being made Especially with the verse. Yeah, I'm curious if I mean there's two players on completely different ends of the spectrum like the bar 35 and knives is a young kid who's an RFA, but I wonder if there's you know, a bold number in mind, you know that that

if there's a bold number in mind that tree living would be comfortable if you combine the two. In other words, I got 12 million that I want to split up between the two. I don't know, I'm using that arbitrarily. Do you see a connection there as they're trying to put the dollars together here that the Nise and Tavares, the combined money is what has to be figured out before they can move to that next step like you said. Yeah well for obvious reasons you want John DeVaris at the lowest AAV possible. Yes. Right, the absolute lowest. How creative can you be to get there because you also know that John of the open market is worth way more than the Toronto Maple Leafs have the

stomach to pay him. And we know we don't have to go down this road again. We all know that he's willing to take a hometown discount. But there's only so far you can go with that knife before the cut is too deep. And I think that Toronto is recognizing that to some degree in the discussion. But it's not just those two guys,

because now you are, you're also creating space. Like how do you, if Brad Marchand doesn't get a deal done to extend in Florida, how are you making that work, right? Like you're gonna have to be super creative with term. And you're talking about older players here that you can see helping you for two maybe three more years but what happens after that? Right?

And if you're Brad Marshan you go, hey boys, I just want another Stanley Cup. That's not my problem. I deserve to get paid and I'm going to get paid. If it's not in Florida and it and not in Toronto than it's somewhere else Yeah, yeah, I am curious what that deal looks like what like what his bold number You know cuz you do hear that a lot like yeah, I gotta get 24 million Let's say you figured out is it over two years is it a five guy like apparently stamp coast had a number where he I think It was like 32 million last year, and it was like that's the number you gotta get to in nashville got to him

yeah and and stammer as he's admitted publicly felt like he was staying in campa until july first like that but i think that's good and i mean you know with a lifer to that point uh... so i i think that the representatives of marshall and at black and sam that they're gonna get into the weeds this weekend with Florida to find out okay, where we at, how do we get there, or is it doable at all?

So the fun stuff is over dregs where it's like, oh, yeah, we won the cup. Like is it down numbers now? Or it's like hey, don't forget. There's a bunch of other teams here. Yeah, pretty much but you know again it depends on the player talking about or the player agent that we're talking about you know because that that there has been a legit threat made by the national hockey league when it comes to tampering right so there's only so much you can talk about but in Florida's case they own those three guys right so till July 1st rolls around They're free to talk to the ages of those players

Until they've exhausted the conversation. So I think they get into the heavier lifting this weekend Yeah, it is. It's interesting like all the players have sobered up now Like actually money starts like being real or possibilities become yeah that like actually money starts like being real or possibilities become now now it becomes it becomes more realistic and also from florida standpoint like you guys run nice with bill cedar why would you say i would try to get all three of course they're gonna try to get me everybody mcdavid and ronison one out here he just want to stand the cup but you got it

you know i i feel like it's just as likely that Florida is ruthless and is like, you know, we got to, we have other plans, you know, and it's not, and we're gonna move off you, cause we talk about being in a position to leverage, they want to come so early. So I think we are gonna see some trend developing here. We've already seen it with the older players,

and okay, you give them an extra year or two, you know, to lure that player in, and you worry about it down the older players and okay you give them an extra year or two you know to lure that player in and you worry about it down the road. I think there's a couple players that are noteworthy here that we could see take shorter deals and I'm not talking two three four years but maybe four or five maybe four or five on extensions. Wouldn't shock me if if Marner was okay going with that term wouldn't shock me if Evan Bouchard who's an RFA opted for something like that wouldn't surprise me McDavid opted for something like that why wouldn't you why wouldn't you bet on

yourself like that Matthews has done it in Toronto and he'll continue to make money with the cap going up you know when his deal expires so why wouldn't some of these other superstars try that well keep in mind too with the cap going up, you know, when his deal expires. So why wouldn't some of these other superstars try that? Well keep in mind too, with the RFA's or the guys who are not RFA's but the guys who have one year left in their deal, if you sign a four-year extension, that's five years. That's five years. Yeah. Right. Like that's still a long and the cap is going to look so different five years from

now. So I can see a guy like Evan Bouchard betting on himself going, I'll take four at 10 or whatever the number is, I'm not gonna guess, but and then saying what's it gonna look like four years from now if I continue to put stats up? And I think Marner's a different situation, he's a UFA,

but the guys who have a year left in their deal, you can go shorter because the cap's going up and they've got an opportunity to bet on themselves again or give themselves an opportunity to move on if they don't like what they're seeing in their current situation. Yeah, and that's also why this trade and sign or side and trade formula, it's fun to talk about but players who have that level of swagger now are less worried about that eight tier. And I remember having this conversation with Andy Scott, who represents Mika

Ratnam at the time that that was all happening at the trade deadline. And yeah, we're all thinking, Oh geez, you know, you'd want the eight tier. And that, that worked out fine for him, but it wasn't a deal maker or a deal breaker because the belief in the player is okay, we get through seven years. All right. Well, what is the cap at that point? You know, so you play for one more year and what 12 million on a discount in that final year to get it to eight at that point. So it has become for toplers. We're talking, talking about less and less of a deal maker, you know, making sure that you get that eight here in a deal. All right, Drex, we'll leave it there. It's going to be a busy week. We'll do

it again soon. Thank you for this. Okay, boys. There, T.S. and hockey insider. There is just an element of gambling with that too, right? Like if you're the player. And I injury. Yeah, I mean injuries, your blade falls off, you know, like it. Oh, yeah. It's happened where guys at 27 or one thing and at 31 it's like I'm not paying that guy. You know, like I would be. I what are you saying? If you're any of these guys, you take the big money. If I'm Marner, I'm taking the money. This is your chant. You're the man. You're the king of the UFA crop. Ever cash. All these teams want you. I'm getting seven or eight years

at 12, 13 and banking it and saying, there's my career. Because Mitch Marner is not, he's not McDavid. McDavid can do that. McDavid could sign a one year deal at 16 million and then the next year, one year at 18 and then the next year one year at 18 and then the next year one year at 20. Regardless of how he plays. It doesn't matter. Yeah exactly. As far as money though the guy's already probably got a hundred in the bank. Yes he made a lot in Toronto, a lot you know off the ice as well, endorsements and all that. And listen he very well maybe in four years he's still one of the 20 best players in a game and the caps way up and he gets 18 million a year on a long-term Deal, maybe he plays his cards right now that works out

But you know again Marner is not he's not one of the 10 or 12 best players What if is what if the playoff history continues and teams are like man? He's 31 now and in the playoffs it doesn't work. Do you really think you're getting some grand slam deal? I would personally take the contract. I don't know what he's going to do. But yeah, and listen, where the money goes here in Toronto, I don't think people are

fully expecting Brad Martian to be a Leaf. I think that'd be silly to just believe that he's gonna pick here, the Leafs are gonna be the ones to get him. But if the rumors keep going and he gets the free agency, you know, and they were, if they managed to sign him, I'd be curious to see how that will rank in terms of reaction.

You know, how people are gonna react. You know, seven years ago they signed DeVarro. Nothing can really match that. That was just crazy. It was bad when they signed him. But it may not be far behind. Guys, I wanted to ask you about a quote I saw on the first up Twitter account. And I don't know who said it.

It might have been a quote from Fast Chuck or Carlo or AK. Talking about the idea of Marner sticking it to the Leafs with a signing and I thought to myself, how is that even possible? How could he stick it to the Leafs with a signing? Would that be like signing with Florida, with a log? I don't know what that means. Like Marner sticking it to the Leafs. Is that possible, Hayes?

Well, I guess if you go to Florida and you take nine million, then that would be sticking it to an extent. I just don't think of it at all. Like when you just say goodbye to a team and you do whatever, it's not sticking it to anybody. The guy is UFA, unrestricted. There's no sticking it to anybody. Do what you want, man.

I wish the guy all the best, man. I hope he gets all the cash. Deserves it. I don't know what else to anybody. Do what you want, man. I wish the guy all the best, man. I hope he gets all the cash. Deserves it. I don't know what else to say. I think what it is, Brian, you can speak to it a lot better than I can. You know this market. You know the fan base. Define sticking it to it. It's signing for cheaper with an organization. Yeah. I think that goes without saying because a lot of the blowback on Mitch was the contract negotiation, got to get all the money, a belief that he was, I don't even think it's a belief, it's a fact, he was overpaid.

You know, it doesn't mean he didn't pull his weight, but when you consider other guys in his bracket, Miko Ranthana, Brayden Point, other guys who were like right in the same, they all got, they got way less. And that's the least. Wasn't there an opportunity, Hay? I think there was an opportunity after a second year for an eight times eight in there somewhere. Well, and that's, again, the Leafs have blood on their hands here more so than Marner does. Like Marner, every player can ask, ask, ask. The team was the one that buckled and said, fine, we'll give it to you. So the team didn't help here. And your focus should be more on the lease than it should be Marner

when it comes to that. But the point being is that was the impression. You know, didn't sign for eight, why not sign for eight years? Could have signed for eight. The Leafs wanted them to sign for eight. No, six. Right. Okay. You know, like it was just, and he made that decision too. And he's got to own that. And the idea that, yes he would take less money when, again, the Leafs, by all accounts, were trying to sign him this year. That's another thing that I think Leaf fans take personally, whether it's fair or not or ridiculous or not. There's this sense that he's doing the Leafs dirty here because they wanted to keep him

and then they wanted to flip him for ranting and he said no and now he's going to leave for less. People are going gonna feel burned by that but you know it's it's a scenario where yeah you just got to cut bait and it's been nine years he's gonna move on it's been a long time it's a new era this is that's just the way it goes it's a weird thing so I was just looking at his career earnings he's made 67 million million See take half of that in taxes is where he lives So, you know everybody gets taxed. Let's clarify that I know but that's where he lives

It's like there's a place Canada's a joke compared to my point being is Canada's a joke compared to other spots I mean Alberta is the best situation sure wait 30% compared to other spots. I mean Alberta is the best situation. Sure. 30% or 30 million bucks out the door right there. So that's... Now he's getting paid in American. Yep. And he's living in Canada. So let's clarify that. But my point is he doesn't have 100 million in the bank. He has an opportunity to sign a 100 million dollar contract this next one. If he goes seven years times 14, that's 98. That's 100 million bucks in your pocket. It's a lot. So that's a Canadian for sure. Yeah. Like, but that's, that's my point. Like this guy has an opportunity to cash, cash, cash out. Yes. Like, you know, and that's,

that's what it ties back to your conversation, Brian. Like that's, you know, why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you take that security of putting a hundred million guaranteed in your pocket as a bright to your jeans. Right. And again, maybe it won't matter, but if the reporting is accurate that part of the Marner issue is that he took too much heat here and all that, why put a spotlight on yourself in the new market where you don't commit to the full term? And maybe it won't matter wherever you go because you're not going to a hockey market,

no one knows any better anyway. Maybe that happens. You sign wherever you sign Anaheim for three years and they're like, oh, okay, cool. I love a three-year deal. I know we just talked about the security and all that, but it's like you experience it, you see if you can have success. Not everything's automatic in life. Maybe after a year or two you hate it and you're like, okay, we'll do it another year

and then we're going again. But the modern athlete can demand a trade and be flipped and control everything. But if it's Vegas, let's say, I don't know if he gets the full seven years or wants it. Maybe Vegas is like, we'll give you what we can, but it's a four-year deal. Or he decides that he wants four years and that puts him to age, what, 31, 32, and then there's another deal behind that so I mean there's lots of options for here and that's what I think what Drex was trying to lean towards is like this guy might sign shorter and bet on himself then he goes and either continues

to have success because we know he has regular season success but maybe something else can happen in the playoffs for a new team who knows yeah but again it gets back to a consistent theme whether it's again a hundred percent accurate or inaccurate or what have you right if the viewpoint is well I can make more money that's why I'm doing it it's just off-putting for people here because it just yes it's a business and don't be naive everyone wants to make money but you even look at the the lens of the McDavid scenario. If he signs a short-term deal, it won't be sold as he's doing that so he can make more money.

It'll be he's doing that to keep his flexibility because he wants to win and he wants to make sure Edmonton keeps their nose to the grindstone and keeps trying to improve. Where with Marner and with Matthews, it was the same thing. Then the next time he signs for eight at 25, it's like, okay, if it's just always about money, you're entitled to that. But at some point, people are going to maybe see through that or just feel uneasy about the fact that, is it winning? Is winning the priority?

Am I being naive? Am I being childish to suggest that maybe that should be a priority? And even you look at a Tavara scenario what I'm surprised by and maybe I shouldn't be because again This is just the way it's always gone with these guys and with this team with this market It's just right in front of him to take the deal and And go to the Leafs and say listen. I'm gonna sign up three or four year deal of four four and a half but what's coming with that is you get out in front of this and you tell the

world i did it because i want to win here and because i want the money to be spread out and i want to discount and the p r that would come with that it's so easy to win people over here and yet instead it's well It's got to be five million around that dollar amount's not gonna cut it. I already told I'm not I'm not gonna talk about that

And I like it's just what I'm saying is the PR. It's such a it's a it's such an easy win for Tavares to just if you're gonna stay then work the deal out for a shorter term and make tree-living go out there and Just lay out the red carpet How great you are and you took less and you're a winner all you want to do is win here and everyone would eat it up But instead, you know, it sounds like well, we got to really grind it out and he could get more or somewhere else So what so what if he what if he can't skate and I get it's a business But then that's my point and like I get it, but it's still a business like if you Like personally the PR that they don't complain when people are hard on you that noodles you're right

It's a business So when you don't show up when it's time to work and people freak on you don't say well Toronto's too tough on me, man It's a business that when you play like you do in game seven and game five and everything else and you choke every single year It's a business, so I'm with you. you it's a business but let's keep that let's keep that energy throughout everything not just at the contract negotiation. I've never gone into a contract negotiation trying to to win over a fan I've I'm doing it to take care of myself.

That's that's sure what that and that's fair I don't know of any athlete that is like, hey, I got to have a PR. Why did McDavid's camp make sure everyone knew that he left money on the table? That's, I mean, he's the best player on the planet. This is John Tavares. Why did he do that though? Because he's trying to, because at that point when the cap was flat, he could have taken a little bit more. It wasn't flat. He signed seven years ago. He signed the eight-year deal My point here

John Tavaris is not a generational player. That's not what I'm asking. You said you know, no one does the PR thing Why did McDavid's camp make sure everyone knew? Well, he could have signed for 13-5, but he took 12-5 He took a million less. Why? Like that's not I mean, but why did he do it? What do you mean? Why? For PR? That's why that's the answer. but why don't you do it what do you mean why for p r that's why that's the answer that's why they made sure everyone thought he is a very strange on the various states leave money on the table that the fans could pat him on the back i'm saying yes you if you want if you care about the marketplace and how they feel about you maybe that maybe doesn't that's fine they don't say i don't know all you tell me if you're a player we're trying to

get as much as you can you you're trying to win over fans? When it came to my contract, yeah, I was trying to get as much money as possible That's the point but I was never in this year I was never in this situation where I already had 80 million dollars in the I understand and Ryan I'm not trying to sorry. I don't know. Yes, and these guys have made a ton of money. I understand I'm not suggesting that's not a deep they are thinking about it but let's make that clear that

you know let's not talk about stop pay lip service on the greatest fans in the world's no you're not you don't care about any of that you if you want to go ahead get paid what i'm saying is the p r game gets played by some other guys that's why use the mcdavid example but what is the case let me just hear here's your let me just be a quick reaction and it's not that john to bear is cool

he took less money to sign in toronto the first time around all yes of we all remember that san jose with them the miracle thirteen million dollar deal that last night why and that's where it is now and and and so who so who played that game i guess that's my point that's like he he already played that game? I guess that's my point. That's like he already played that card, didn't he? Let me just say this. I have to say this, Hayes.

What is really important about the PR game? That lasts an hour after the presser and then it's gone. So what the hell does it really matter? And that may be true, man. That may be true. That's kind of where I was going. Okay, then that's fine And if that's the case then then go with it, and I don't I'm not

Sitting here saying that it should be all about the fans of it But they pay lip service to it when it suits them, and I'm talking all out About John right I'm talking everybody. Yeah, it's while the fan we did and okay if it's just a business no problem But then you know then that's the way it goes, but don't jump on people when you're like wow They're a bit hard on me because of that. It's a business man. Yeah, I get to business goes both ways And I'll go both ways your make that's the point you're making which is fair But I'm just trying to counter it to go I I've never once and I get I'm never been in these position I get it guys to go. I'm taking less because I want to it's easy for me to say press conference. Well, I guess what I'm getting

I'm not saying you should take two million dollars or whatever I'm saying if you've determined you're gonna stay and you kind of know you're I'm gonna probably make 4.5 or 5, you know, whatever right I Don't think it's a bad idea to just to get it over with I don't think it's a bad idea to just to get it over with Easier said than done. Yeah, and then launch it into this. Hey John was never go All he wants is to be a leaf. He loves it here He left something on the table, even if people like I'm not buying that or whatever I don't if you're gonna do it anyway, then do it and then get out of that spin. It looks great exactly

Yeah, and that's a good point. there's no there's no downside to that but anyway uh... right jerry's i don't know if we're gonna do jerry's will swallow it will get to jerry's thirty seven dollars and we're gonna have to have a good break and we're doing it i jerry's coming up over what was this is a contest about anyway didn't we just have a lot of money on the phone yes we did why was i was talking about where again I got into the PR thing and I'm talking about

Placating the fans and and and you know, you guys are honest and you're saying plant fans Don't care when it comes. It doesn't matter not that they don't care It's just an hour like how many times are the last seven or eight years have they said what a PR stunt by McDavid? That was so cool. I gotta be honest hazy and we'll end it like this. You're the only guy I've heard say it. Well, I remember going on a rant about it at the time. That's true. Here we go. Guys, shake hands on this.

Josh Lerberg coming up. Shake hands before we go to break. All right, all right. Yes. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on the TSN app. Squinting through bright days? That's a no. Struggling with glare? Also, no. What about us and out. coach michael cores and more arranging i examine pearl vision dot c a and get forty percent off lenses some restrictions and exclusions may apply see participating stores for details right over that is powered by fando bringing you everything from the opening line of the

final score jerry's is moving six thirty jerry's at six thirty now skid pushback and well the happy won't be happy he won't be happy. Won't be happy. He won't be happy. Now I'll be happy.

But I was thinking more of our conversation in the break and I don't do this often, but I'm like, you know what? I have something I wish I said when we were having this conversation. Cause we're, while we were

talking about the PR, we're talking about the fans and we're talking about contracts and, oh, you said an hour, our noodles an hour after it's signed everyone forgets and I'm thinking of myself in the break all we do is talk about contracts like we've been talking about Mitch Marner's contract negotiation for six years I know but you're you're talking screwing misconstruing the contract talk in the PR element of the contract oh I think they're directly connected.

They're Marner's a great example. There were a lot of Leaf fans that simply turned on them. The second the contract stuff played out the way it played out, he lost a portion of the fan base, not a majority, probably a small minority. Hang on a second, man. What the hell are you insane? Are you, are you paying attention for six years? Have you, do you, do you many people were disappointed with a local kid

playing that the way he played missing camp and the money and all that kind of stuff but he got what he wanted why would he play it any different you should be if there was any PR disdain disdain it should have been on the GM that signed him to the contract player right about player. You're absolutely right about that. Because the player will just sit at home and be like, we'll see if this guy's dumb enough to do this. And the guy's like, okay, you can have that. You're responsible for your own brand, man, your own image.

And that's the thing. Like if Mitch, again, it doesn't matter to bring this up six years later. If you want a PR play, it's on the GM to have a PR play to say, this is what we're giving you and if you don't want it, you can go play somewhere else. That's a PR play, it's on the GM to have a PR play to say, this is what we're giving you and if you don't want it, you can go play somewhere else. That's a PR play. You don't think the player is going to sit back and say, it's just like your kids play in the living room. They're probably looking around at you and they're like, I'm going to see if this guy is going to let me away with this and if he does, I'll keep doing it.

But there's countless examples around the league, dude, of it's like, I just want to get this done and figured out. Like, let's get it figured out and done with the leak or with my team i don't want to say here i want to know what you really think that those days in the n.h.l. work i would be like i just want to win here and i'm going to take less and i hope it works out you know better than anybody there's no loyalty in sports in both sides somebody that that it's not everybody's wendell clark and dougie john showdown will cut off their nuts to play for the team

Josh Allen just did with Buffalo. I'm bringing up an example Josh Allen's that's a jail in Brunson in New York with the next Here's another one Brian good one. You're right in essence what you're saying people don't talk about it. That's all we do We talked about Willie's Holding out to December 1st. We talked about Mitch. We talked about Austin. Like Austin thinks that... I don't think, Jamie, you talk about Willie's contracts. I don't think that there was any kind of good PR on Willie.

He sat back in Sweden right until January whatever. And I think it's a part of his legacy until they win something. That's the point, actually, Brian's making is like we've talked about it at Nausium as these guys had to get every penny, you know, where it was like, okay, like they've got paid, which is great, their agents did their job, all of that. A lot of people blame Kyle Dubas, gave in, you know, if you're going to give into the money, you didn't give into the term. We wouldn't even be talking about certain Mitch Marner if he was on an eight year deal,

right? We wouldn't be talking about that. Or Austin. In the end, we do talk about contracts a lot more than just the hour. I get that. But I just, you know, what I was trying to say is, I understand from a PR standpoint, but I don't, again, not being in the rooms with these managers, not managers, with an agent and a player and his family. They're not going, how do we make this work? How do we, from a PR standpoint, that's the last thing on their mind. They're going, okay, we want to get as much money as we can.

We want to get as much term. I get it. John's made a lot of money and he's already made it well known that he wants to stay. So I think in the end, if there's a deal that looks good, that's exactly what we're going to be talking about. Man, he probably could have got seven somewhere else and he got five here. And that's going to be the positive PR. That's where we're going to celebrate the guy going, damn, the guy wanted to be here

and Tree made it work yes and they wanted him so but it it's it's everyone is individualistic like every situation is different that's what I was saying McDavid yeah he took a million less it's not like he took four million less he took a million less and in the end he's the greatest you know arguably the greatest player are one of them Tavares is a different situation. This is a 35 year old athlete that wants to stay to try and finish a job here in Toronto. That's different than, you know, Mitch Marner having. Is it that the true like if you had truth serum, would it be that he just likes

being John Tavares in Toronto or he just desperately in his dying and will fight and scratch your claw to finish the job what is it uh... unfortunately i'm i'm concerned is the former like that what i hope it's i hope i'm wrong on that and i've got ask yourself the question that was a little like being john taveras the toronto may believe that's adored by everyone as they've all said they get treated like

rock stars or is it I can't sleep at night until I win a Stanley Cup here because I've never heard any of those guys talk like that. So you have to ask yourself which one is it. I want to give them the benefit doubt and say both because I think John's a pretty reserved guy. You know, you had truth serum. I think it would bother him that like he hasn't been able to finish the job here he was a captain for many years he's

been a a good leader all of that type of stuff the guy listen the guy got the captain take cap is he taken away last year we he could have easily gone into the tank he didn't know any good season and he still wants to stick around to write again which you know speaks to how he feels about being a Leaf. Right. All right more on this Jerry's coming up he's not happy he will join us Jerry's percentage is coming up JLU on the NBA draft and the Raptors picking night tonight and

our best bet still to come. Overdrive continues TSN 1050 and on TSN4. Coach Michael Coors and more arrange an eye exam at pearlvision.ca and get 40% off lenses some restrictions and exclusions May apply see participating stores for details All right, J Lou coming up Jerry's percentages as well Jerry's coming up We got the J's in Cleveland Mac Scherzer back in a mount tonight Addison barger joined us earlier today He's back in right field hitting second in the lineup tonight George Springer is a machine the J's are's are on fire the two and a half games back of the yankees i'm loving what

what they're selling right now i gotta be honest they are they're playing extremely well i just want to follow up with one last comment uh... the PR in the GM's and you know who can make the statement as far as the organization for the GM's to come out and say this is the way it's gonna be like that seems to be old school, too Because if you do that with players now, they just say I'll play somewhere else. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's not like players are gonna say oh, that's the way it is around here. I'm in they say bye. Bye So it's it's it's difficult for anyone to have a PR move at a press conference

It's a program that that okay good one depends on the program that bill to and i want to bring up a couple examples because we always just focus on the two florida teams but there are other examples in the league that is set internal salary cap stuff and guys is either you're in your out type of thing yeah well that was a day with the job where you see recent to make more than seven million of lids from you know but it's it's

more recent than we think I'll show you I got one for you okay come back with that and we'll continue this conversation all night it's a good one I love it's an outstanding this is what people are talking about around the league and in the city for sure it's the true you know absolutely these are all they're all great players and there's only so much money and people are emotional right now Florida's just done some damage to this league man. Yeah, they really have Final hour coming up overdrive continues TSN 1050 soon to be up on TSN to this pride season celebrate with the station that says bold vibrant and diverse as you are I

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