OverDrive - OverDrive - June 27, 2025 - Hour 2

Episode Date: June 27, 2025

Join Mark Roe, Frankie Corrado and Dave Feschuk for Hour 2 on OverDrive! TSN Hockey Analyst Mike Johnson joins to discuss John Tavares' extension with the Maple Leafs, the impact for the roster and Noah Dobson's trade to the Canadiens. Bryan Hayes joins to dive into Masai Ujiri's departure from the Raptors, the shift for the franchise in Toronto and his viewpoints of John Tavares remaining in Toronto on a discount deal.

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Sundays at 5pm on Newstalk 1010 and the iHeartRadio app. The show that makes sense of the ever-changing world of technology, and you don't need a computer degree to listen. Brought to you by LG, celebrating 10 years of OLED innovation. Visit LG.ca. Our two of over drive, Mark Rowen for Brian Hayes alongside Frankie Carado and Dave Festjock from the Toronto Star. It is, I can only speak for myself, but I get a lot of messages when I fill in for the one and only Brian Hayes and today is no exception and of course the message from those within this network within those on social media even even actually a neighbor mentioned it as I

was leaving my house oh Hayes he's off clearly because everything is happening this is the day as haze is off today. NHL draft tonight, like there's going to be, I think there's going to be more stuff that happens too. It seems like- Like trades you're talking about? Yeah, there's so many teams that want to move up and teams that are tired of being bad.

And even though it doesn't seem like there's a lot, there is a lot of sellers, if you're on the fence about it, this is the year to kind of turn yourself into a seller because it seems like there's teams that are willing to pay a pretty hefty price right now. Yeah, could that be the theme, Frankie, of the coming days here with this draft

and a rising cap and free agency coming on Canada Day? Are we looking at overpayment central here in the NHL? Well, it's gonna seem like overpayment, I think because of the salary cap going up. It's going to seem like overpayment, I think, because of the salary cap going up. Like, it's going up seven and a half million dollars in one year. This is the biggest jump we've seen in, I don't know, ever. Quite some time anyway. Yeah, it's been a while. There's going to be a certain amount of sticker shock on some of the signings that happen, but like, if you're a team that needs a centerman, you can't sign a centerman right now. So you have to make a trade or you're basically going to buy some time with who you have and

see if you can make a move at some point. But there's not a ton of options. So I think prices are going up for certain. That's all you hear is that everyone thinks they're a buyer. We almost have to ask, so who's a seller? And is it, and like, can you name them all in one hand? And that is, that going to slow things down at all. And when it comes to trades, when it comes to free agency, like that's the fascinating thing to me. We already can see a trade in the works when it comes to the New York Islanders, because they acquired those two picks from the Montreal Canadians.

And I think more people would be surprised if they didn't trade those two than if they did. But and how much does it affect the fact that the NHL teams aren't all in one location? This is the first year where they're all they're doing like the NFL model where they're all in their head. That'll be interesting to see actually tonight as well. But I hope they go back to the old way of doing the draft, which it sounds like they are going to. The other thing that we've maybe glossed over is that there's a new CBA that is gonna be ratified soon. And one of the things is the closing up the LTIR loophole

come playoff time, which I'm very curious to see what that looks like among other things that they're working on. It's bad in the 84 games that seems to really be the headliner. Yeah, 84 games makes sense sense though because i think you have nice symmetry between your divisional games the other games within the conference and of course the

the one home in a way game that you play at a conference but i as long as you're cutting down the preseason a hundred percent that's the caveat there let's get rid of some preseason games first of all no one needs to be playing eight preseason games fixes also too much i think four is a good number for the preseason here here to that but by the but do we really need a longer regular season in an era where we've just lived through the shana plan era where we just spent the

whole time talking about how the regular season is essentially a formality it's not meaningless because you have to make the playoffs, but it's not where the drama ensues. It's not where the money is made. Obviously. You're gonna add two teams at some point here, like expansion teams. Yeah.

No, I get it, but I mean, we're in this load management era of sports where players talk about the wear and tear on their bodies more than ever, and the importance of recovery and and now we're saying No, no, let's let's make a longer schedule I'm not a hundred percent behind that necessarily and there's the commitment to best on best tournaments, too So those are gonna be those are more games for the very elite of the league

Yeah and then what did we hear down the stretch of last season when they had they had the The break for the four nations that compacted the schedule. We heard how hard the schedule was. Well, I'm not sure those complaints are going away if they had two more games. You know what else players aren't complaining about? Zero percent escrow right now. There's no 15% coming off the top of your paycheck anymore. So I think players will be happy to play a couple more games and play best on

play best on best as long as they are not paying more back to the league, which was the case. I was in the league paying 15 to 18%. Johnny was probably paying 20% at some point. I wouldn't be surprised. Not to put words in his mouth, but I think our next guest is saying, good point, Frankie. Joining us now on the Maple Toyota Hotline is the one and only Mike Johnson. How are you, Johnny? Good point Frankie. Good point Frankie. That's what I like to come in with some good logic. Absolutely. Talk about, and I don't know Tess if that expanded schedule was positioned as a give by the players, but behind closed doors

if they pitch it like this okay listen we're gonna cut down preseason games the total number of games the team has to play is still gonna be 90 or 80 88 but we're gonna have HR go up by 2% because we have these extra couple games but only four preseason games resounding yeses abs like no-brainer yeses, preseason games like I played in the era there we had like nine, ten, eleven preseason games it's ridiculous so yeah I know people think the season's too long already but for the players it's a net-zero game with more dollars in their pocket that seems like an

obvious win. Among the other things Johnny that I do find interesting in this new CBA is the playoff bonus increase, like the Stanley Cup playoff pool is going to be nearly doubled. I don't know what people would know about that and how much money there is, but if you make a ton of money, if you're one of the big boys, like the money that you would make for playoff bonuses really pales in comparison. So to add more money as far as playoff incentive, I think that's a smart thing and there's a win

for the players as well. It is and you know, players don't really care about, now if you're making the league minimum or making a million dollars, which I understand is a lot of money, but you play for two months and you lose in the final and you walk away with like, I don't even know what it is, like it used to be 30, 40 grand. That almost does it after taxes and escrow, which

used to be a thing. That barely covers your two months rent and food and everything else. Like it's almost like a net losing money proposition and players don't care. They don't play for that, but it is true. Or if you're a player that's not even playing, you know, you're basically losing money to hang around for six more weeks and not make that much. So it doesn't really matter. It's a nice little win. And I don't even, it's such a non-issue, Frankie, that I don't even know. I think we, the one year we made in 99, 25 years ago, we made the conference final

I think we the one year we made in 99 25 years ago. He made the conference final Lost in the third round and I don't know if we got $26,000. It was a you know, relatively small number. I don't even know what it is now Let alone what it's going to so it's not a really big issue But anytime it's a little bit more money for the players. Um, that's not a bad thing either Well one guy who could have made more money if he went to the open market is John Tavares. He signs a four-year deal. A lot of people were talking about five million a year would get the job done. Well, apparently $4.38 million will get the job done.

What was your reaction to hearing the news. The Leafs got what they wanted, a massive hometown discount for John Savars. And John Savars got what he wanted, where I guess he got the fourth year, he got some no-move protection, and he got to stay at Toronto Maple Leafs and have his career extend here in Toronto and have his family get to grow up in Toronto.

But for all the talk about contract negotiations with the Leafs that have generally gone one way only and that is the players extracting every single penny and this is not a criticism, this is just an observation. I don't have any problem with players getting paid as much as they can. But players getting every single cent from the Leafs, this is not the case at all. If he would have gone to the open market, Frankie, you love to look at the numbers, he would have been projected $8 million for giving maybe a two or three year deal at $8 million per year.

The fact is they got almost half that, less than Matthew Shane, given the tax parameters of Toronto and everything else. This is a pretty significant win and it's important that people, well one, given the amount of criticism that they take when it goes the other way, but also Look at John Savars now Not as a 11 million dollar player not as a former first-liner look at him as a depth player who makes four million dollars and What do you expect out of a guy like that out of a max? told me out of players of that else you expect?

Maybe 15 goals and hopefully 35 or 40 points I expect tomorrow to get more than that, but he should be evaluated and judged based through the lens of he makes four million dollars, which is today's NHL is Maybe a third-line player. Maybe and Frederick money Literally red Frederick literally tried Frederick number because he runs into guys a lot tomorrow won't do that maybe a third line player maybe and rick money literally red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red red

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points in his next 20 playoff games. OK, OK. I got you. It's not about the last one. It's about the next one. So you can go backwards, absolutely. Now, if we're going to be serious about it, Tavar has left money on the table in his last contract.

I know it was a big one. But he left money on the table in that contract negotiation to come to Toronto as well. I think San Jose was over a million dollars more per year than what Toronto was offering. So he's probably left now upwards of 12, 14, 18 million dollars on the table to play for the Leafs. And people should appreciate that because they seem to have a real problem when they don't think that that's happening. Johnny, completely understand where you're coming from there, but isn't this also an acknowledgement Johnny that there's real money in being a lifetime Leaf, being associated

with this crest. You and a lot of your colleagues that have played for this team, you know, there's good money in being a beloved retired leaf, right? And in this, if john taveras wants to retire here, this could prove to be a very good public relations move that could net him a lot of money down the road as a retired guy. Yes, that is true. But fast, I think that is a little bit different even compared to my era, because he's going to make $120 million in his career. So like if he can

pick up a few hundred thousand dollars in ambassadorial numbers from the Leafs or from organizations from appearances like sure that's great that doesn't really matter to him and his bank account because his bank account is gonna be big enough regardless but I just think as far as general day-to-day peace of mind and given the turbulent times we've seen maybe with Mitch Marder and what's happened late in his career, having general peace of mind for you and maybe most importantly for your family because DeVar does have kids now that through this contract will grow to the age where they'll be in school. Like they'll be into a school where people will know that their dad plays with Toronto

Maple Leaf. to the age will be in school they'll be into a school where people will know that their dad place the trauma police if you have that kind of that kind of the reputation where you're sold beloved respected wendell dougie kujo john to borrow it then that why makes your life on on your family not much nicer even if you know more so than even you the money that they would have saved on the two bars the only you know let's

say if they were able to go up to five point five even in st john we're going to do this because we think we can go up to that number but they don't have to they go to four point three eight how consequential is that savings with the matthew nice situation potentially having to play out and unrestricted free agency? Well, the Leafs will be a team that even with the rising cap, Frankie, as you know, every dollar counts. So, do you like Steve Lawrence? He's pretty good for the Leafs last year. Well, there's Steve Lawrence right there.

Yeah. I mean, it's like, you know, yes, it gives you a bit more on Knives and you got it right. You worked top down, not bottom up. So you figure out Matthew Knives, you figure out who your second line center is, you figure out those kinds of needs. But if there ends up being money left over for the bottom, well, now you can have a guy like that come back and afford him. So every dollar still matters. Not every team around the league will say that this summer, but the Leafs will and

Yeah, so it's a win. It's a win financially as far as the salary cap management goes with Toronto Maple Leafs and that's not something that they've had happen a lot with You know for the last seven eight years Mike Johnson joining us on overdrive So as the the Leafs continue to try to alter the DNA of this team, we talked so much about free agency starting on Tuesday and who they could go out and get. But if they're following what the league is doing, it's more likely to come via trade where we've seen some pretty significant hockey deals. Noah Dobson going to the Montreal Canadiens, just recently Miles Wood and Charlie Coyle going to Columbus.

Do you see teams like the Maple Leafs maybe going down that road a little bit more than saying trying to go after one of the three Florida Panthers or another free agent? Well, Mario, I think unless it's Marchand or Benes, that's what they're going to have to do. I don't even know, I get Brock Bester's a really good player, you'd like him. Maybe Nick Ehlers is the guy you go after.

Beyond those guys, I don't think there's a UFA out there up front that would help them to the degree that they need help. So it has to be a trade and I love it. I love to see Zegrist getting traded and the Dobson deal going through and you know Colorado working to make more space. These are good players getting traded in you know pretty much hockey deal so you need cap space, you need assets to go the other way. Least might have the cap space not so many of the assets

anymore but yeah I think absolutely they will look to not free agency to address their other needs especially the ones higher up in the lineup unless they can get Mark Shandler I think they're gonna take a pretty good run at him and don't think Bennett's gonna consider coming to Toronto and maybe Nick either they might take a good run at him if they can as well but beyond those guys yeah Mark they will they will look to offer sheets for agency trades or different ways that you can you can find a way to get those players it was interesting MJ to see today that Montreal pulls off the trade for Noah

Dobson and then of course Columbus pulls off a trade for Charlie coil and Miles Wood and you're like hey look at that a team that just got into the playoffs and the team that was two points behind that team that just got into the playoffs and the team that was two points behind that team that just got into the playoffs both being aggressive trying to make their teams better uh... what do you make of the fit for noah dobson with montreal and the i guess not reactionary move by columbus but the subsequent move by the columbus blue jackets yeah no report had columbus being in on the dobson deal as well so they were

probably saving some of that that's for dobson deal as well. So they were probably saving some of those assets for Dobson, didn't get them and they pivoted. For Montreal, I mean, Dobson's a fascinating player. He's a very, very good offensive player. Not a perfect defensive player, Frankie, as you know, but he can move the puck out of his own end really nicely. He had a monster year, two years ago, and will fit in nicely for the next

eight years and he gets an eight-year deal which for guys coming up he's like those won't be available for when it comes to after next summer so get them while you can and he gets one in Montreal now. I'm curious to see how it works because he's an offensive player with great instincts that way not a super physical defender. Lane Hudson an offensive player with great instincts that way, not a super physical defender. Lane Hudson, an offensive player with great instincts, not a super physical defender. And how many of those guys you could have on a Stanley Cup contending team, which is what Montreal is trying to build, that does remain to be seen. If Lane Hudson plays ahead of Noah Dobson on the depth chart next year,

like he gets first powerplay minutes, he gets more points, what's Hudson going to ask for for a contract? These are where my mind goes, but you want a right shot offensive guy on the depth chart next year, like he gets first power play minutes, he gets more points. What's Hudson gonna ask for for a contract? These are where my mind goes, but you want a right shot offensive guy who's really good and it costs you, yes, two first rounders, but two first rounders that won't help you for a while, did not cost you Reinbacher, Logan Mayhew, Michael Hegg,

you're probably top three prospects and you have the money to afford it and he's still under $10 million. Like you kinda love it if you're the Montreal Canadians because your team is much better today than it was yesterday. MJ when you look at this Tavares deal you know we can talk about the hard money that's been left on the table by Tavares and the very reasonable cap number they're dealing with but is it kind of too rash to say this could be sort of a turning point

for the maple east front office under brad tree living where you know they're playing a little more hardball than we're used to beliefs playing with star players and you think it could actually you know change the tone of future negotiations with other players i think a better litmus test will be what happens with

Matthew Nives. Because the man wasn't even in that he was clearly publicly desperate to stay in Toronto and the leverage was really clear. What we will need to see is in a negotiation where that desperation, that leverage doesn't exist to the degree that it did with Tavares. Where it's just a negotiation. Guy likes it here, he wants to stay here. Matthew Knight just said that. But he's not going to move mountains and take huge discounts to make that happen. So we'll see how that one plays out. It might be more indicative. But even still, taking the wins when you can get them is something that every front office should be doing. Now, Jason Spetsa played here real cheap and Joel Thornton played here real cheap and they got Chris Tannett to come back to Toronto. They have done well, which were actually at different moments,

but Matthew Nives will be the real champ. Matthew Nives is a lot closer to not quite Marner, not quite Nylander, but in that ballpark more than Tavares was this time around. Mike, it's funny that you're around that organization a lot. And when I say organization, MLSE, and the big news today is Masai Ujiri's out as president of the Raptors. And we talked a little bit about how Keith Peli came out and said, we're still in search of replacing him as a president, where in contrast,

the Maple Leafs said good riddance to the role of the president, and it's gonna be Brad Treleving, right to Keith Pelley, and the juxtaposition of those two organizations within the same ownership. It's interesting, because they're the exact same thing, the exact same role. Perhaps it speaks to the uniqueness of the Raptors market in the NBA being a Canadian team. Like somehow do you need a figurehead that is more

Bobby Webster to be out there like Maasai was. Maasai was an amazing ambassador for the Raptors around the basketball world. And you know the Leafs probably don't need that role. Shandy did a nice job in a lot of business development, a lot of different things. But he didn't have to go, you know, sort of sell the hospital of the Leafs around the league, whereas the Raptors probably do need that kind of PR campaign and figurehead to do it. So and perhaps, Brad Tree Living haven't been around longer, having had some experience doing this,

maybe they feel he's more capable of absorbing some of that responsibility, more so than Bobby Webster is. I don't know the Raptors side of things quite as well, but I think it's more about the Raptors because they're the only Canadian team and around the basketball playing world there are some questions about playing in Canada for NBA guys. our new draft pick he was just excited that's what I've heard he was just excited but I think it's more to do with that than anything sort of like Leaf versus Raptors it's basketball versus hockey in Canada yeah I mean MJ you you like the NBA you follow the NBA I, when you see that happening to Canada's only team, I mean, it's a really seismic moment for a lot of people.

There's a lot of fans. If you go on social media, there's a lot of hate being launched toward Keith Pelly for the move and maybe people above Keith Pelly. I mean, what's your perception of it just as somebody who pays attention? Keith Pelley. I mean what's your perception of it just as somebody who pays attention? Well I mean I think the writing was on the wall when when MLSE was bought out and Tanenbaum and Bell were bought out that the singular voice with the Rogers family or Keith Pelley was going

to make decisions. I think that the new management organization felt that there was a lot of, what's the right phrase, a lot of layers in the management for both organizations. And maybe that wasn't quite as necessary. And with those layers comes big salaries. Like what's Masai, like 15 million or something like that? Plus, plus, plus Shani was, you know, maybe ended up being half that or something, whatever.

It's a lot of money that they felt they probably didn't have to pay. But, you know, I think from a side and how significant he was in creating the team that won a championship and how significant he was in making those hard deals. And so many people looked to him for the, when they decided to trade DeRozan for Dwye and that whatever it takes to try to win mentality. Yeah, it's very significant, but not surprising. And again, I always default to whether it's the company I work for owning a team or somebody else.

If you own them, Fess, guess what? You can do whatever the heck you want. Yeah, no doubt. Like, you've obviously been successful enough to get to a spot where you own that team, then if you want to put yourself on as a coach, you know, what are you going to do? That's what happens. Whether it's advisableable whether it's smart i guess we'll wait and see but

certainly have the right to make whatever decisions that the upper management that they'd like to because that their product as the owners what kind of stuff are you looking forward to for the draft tonight john you think we're going to get some big trades on the floor you think the islanders package those ads picks up and try and move up for haggins what do you think that i want the shape or a good deal would be and like i don't know matthew darcher all but he's you smart smart guy obviously

he's been around the camp organization but uh... going this bold early for darsha trade-offs in the way now they have first they got the two straight pics for montreal can he possibly get the best player in schaeffer and then go get the hometown Now they have first they got the two straight picks for Montreal. Can he possibly get the best player in Schaeffer and then go get the hometown guy at five six seven eight wherever Hagen might be available whatever you have to do? That

would be awesome. That would just be great drama and theater. So yeah I was I was hoping it was gonna be a big day and it has been already but I would like to see yeah like the jockeying for the islanders specifically to do Schaeffer and N Hagen's together would be will be fun to watch Well, it's been a big day. We hope Tuesday's a big day You're gonna be part of our free agent frenzy coverage which begins at 11 a.m. And I would say you get to sleep in a little bit, but you'll be up watching Wimbledon anyway So it doesn't matter you'll be ready to go. You know I will be absolutely

and Frankie as we go back on our list yes so I now have to scratch off my offer sheet guy email Heineman. Oh yeah that's right. Of course offer sheet guy targets and I think much of you all knew this and that's one of the reasons he's not there. Yeah Johnny and I were doing some hypothetical offer sheets the other day a couple emails back and forth and Heinenman was on. That could be a segment? Maybe, we'll see. We'll see if, hopefully not.

Hopefully we have a lot of stuff to talk about. Hey, Johnny? I mean, hopefully we don't have to do any of that stuff we prepared for, but if we do, Heinenman was going to be a smart one and now I'm just going to say it for you so I can sound smart to you, Frankie, but we won't get it out there publicly. That's awesome. All right, we'll keep the other ones under wraps then. Awesome.

That's it. MJ, enjoy the weekend, buddy. All right, guys, have a great holiday under wraps then awesome. That's it. Uh, mj enjoy the weekend, buddy All right, guys. Have a great holiday weekend. We will see everybody on tuesday. Absolutely Mike johnson joining us on the maple toyota hotline drive the built in canada fuel efficient fun to drive toyota rav4 Gas or hybrid models available visit maple toyota.com Doogie has been yelling in my ear for the last minute to break because we have a special guest coming up. I don't know who it is. I thought it was a little inappropriate the fact that he's been yelling at me but then again I'm his substitute teacher so he can yell at me all he wants I guess. Big guest. Big

surprise guest. Special surprise guest coming up next on Overdrive as we continue on TSN 1050 and on TSN 4. Let go from your job without a severance package? You need employmentlawyer.ca. Your employer is legally required to give you as much as 24 months pay when you lose your job. Call your Sam Firu and get what you're owed. Employmentlawyer.ca. Overdrive continuing on TSN 1050, on the TSN app and on TSN for Mark Rowe in for Brian Hayes alongside Frankie Crotto and Dave Festjock. So much to talk about what a great day to be a part of this show John Tavara signs a team

friendly deal. Messiah Jerry gets fired there's a new CBA that will make sure that we don't have to utter lockout for a long time No, it dobson straight all these great things are happening in all my social media feed is telling me is we don't want to hear from you we want to hear from Brian Hayes who joins us now on the show. How are you Brian? I'm not doing so well guys I'm not doing so well guys. I'm not doing so well. Like this is so predictable. It's been an ongoing bit on our show for like a decade now. Whenever there's a major

news day, I'm never on the show. We had this plan for weeks. Like we're out of Culp Down Woods, the Lincoln Navigator Cup, O-Dog versus Duffy and I just knew it. Like I knew something was going to happen. It starts with Messiah, then tomorrow's signs, the Dobson deal, the CBA. Something else is going to happen between now and seven o'clock. I guarantee it. Yeah, NICE is signing. Yes, 100 percent.

But crazy day. I mean, obviously, I guess MLSC and Rogers saved some money today, you know, is that the theme of the day that besides out and John Tavarez, like he said, to his credit, he signed a team friendly deal, but also to the credit of Brad True, living in the Maple Leafs, because they knew they had leverage. John didn't want to leave. He made it very clear. And if you don't want to leave and you want to stay

somewhere and you want to win, then I think this was imperative. And I think it's an important sign and we'll see what this means for Knives because I think there's a connection there. Right? We can all remember seven years ago, Tavares signed first and then Willie and Austin and Mitch said, well, there's the bar. And I think if Tavares got paid either an appropriate amount, quote unquote, based on

what the rest of the league thought he was worth, or they buckled and overpaid him, then Nice probably would have been sitting there saying, okay, let's keep this party going. But the party possibly stopped here with Brad Truelove. He yelled his ground out. I credit John. He wants to be a part of it. He wants to retire a Leaf. And that likely happens.

Hayes, you know, we just had Danny Green on a member of the 2019 Raptors NBA championship team. And Danny made a point to think, I've been hearing from a lot of NBA people today is that, you know, you can let Masayu Jerry walk out the door, but good luck replacing him. How do you see it? Yeah, I see it the same way. I mean, I would argue, I'm not sure there's ever been a person more synonymous with a sports team in Toronto in my lifetime than Messiah and the Raptors. That includes Austin Matthews and the Leafs, you know, like Fladdy Guerrero Jr. and the Blue Jays, you can go back a long, long time, like, they're synonymous. Maasai is the Raptors. The Raptors have been Maasai for over a decade. And

I think if you're a fan of the Toronto sports teams, what is, what has happened here, regardless of how you feel about the garbage, which Raptors have not been good for a few years. You know, they haven't been. And Messiah's been running the show. The Leafs, you know, stub their toe in the playoffs to every single year. And, you know, you had to get a hand with the Leafs. Messiah with the Raptors, what you were getting

was integrity, and you were getting pure basketball guys and pure hockey guys. And now you have pure basketball guys and pure hockey guys and now you have pure business guys like Keith Pelly and Rogers who run everything now it's it's kind of got like a teachers a pension plan vibe to it right now you know like that's kind of what sticks out to me and again the there are things to say about beside things to say about Shanahan and the way they built their teams and where the teams currently are for sure. But they represented stability, culture, credibility and aside more so than anybody for the last, what, 30 years, probably since I guess, Pat Gillick, you know, like if we're

talking Leafs, Jay's Raptors, like the last executive to win something Since Gillick would would be would be Messiah and I think what's different between the Leafs moving off Shanahan and having Trey living and Messiah leaving the Raptors and then Bobby Webster still being here is the roles are so different like cheer-living was a GM for a long time Shanahan had his fingerprints over everything Undoubtedly, but I always have been of the impression, he let his GM breathe to an extent, come up with a plan, you know,

kind of push for different things that I'm sure he would bend on. Messiah's been doing everything for the Raptors for a decade. Like, Bobby Webster's been the GM, but he's really been the assistant GM. Like, the Raptors fired the GM, the architect of the team here

and a guy that again has been synonymous with their team for a decade, I'd say maybe the most famous executive possibly again in the history of Toronto sports and you're just not going to replace that guy. What he created leading into 2019 and I get it, six years ago and at some point Everyone's time runs out But then winning in 2019 like fest you can speak to this row you can speak to I think Frankie you can even though You're younger than us like I remember when they arrived in 95 and I would say up until

Basically miss size arrival never at any point did I actually think the Raptors would ever win a championship. Like, it wasn't possible. In your wildest dreams, it was never anything that was ever going to happen. Ever. And Messiah showed up immediately in conjunction with Tim Laiwicki and said, we're going to do it. It's going to happen.

I'll be ruthless if I have to. If you don't believe, that's fine. That's your problem. I believe and I'm telling you it's going to happen. And his credit, he made everyone believe and he did it. He talked the talk, he walked the walk. And now MLFC, Rogers, Keith Pelley, they've decided to move in a different direction. We had Danny Green on earlier, Hayes, and he kind of made the point that without Masai there, the organization does lose a little bit of, you know, a little bit of leverage,

I guess, or maybe even credibility with some of the players around the league where it's like, Masai was so good at yes, being aggressive, acquiring guys, but also recruiting guys. Like there was, there was something about Masai and now they're not going to have him there. Like how much of a hole do you think that is for the organization? Because we know the reality of the Toronto Raptors in regards to the rest of the NBA, right? Like it's not easy to get certain players up here and they had that, you know, that lifeline with Maasai, they don't have it anymore. Do you think that's going to be a significant factor for the team?

It has the possibility to, for sure. I mean, the one thing Maas side never changed though, is actually completely, you know, reversing the viewpoint of this team, you know, from the rest of the league and the players throughout the NBA, right? He had to trade for Kawhi and then Kawhi left the second he could. He never landed the big fish in free agency that I think he was trying to get that he was hoping to get. So I do think you got to remember that like, Messiah could not do that. Danny Green left the second he could. Now maybe they didn't want him to return, right?

Like Danny won and he made the right choice. He went to the Lakers and won in the bubble and won another ring. But Danny left too, you know, Kawhi left. And so I do think where you where maybe his value is, is more so with the younger players coming in, with the players on the perimeter with with what he built in terms of you know, his his eye for talent and in putting in this formula that allowed them to build up guys like Pascal Siakam and Fred Van Vliet and OJ and Obi and others, you know, deeper in the draft that became

something I think in large part because of Messiah and then those guys wanted to be here. You know, they didn't want to necessarily leave. So I think maybe where his biggest impact was, you know, with the exception of the Kauai's and the Danny Green's, was that he built something where a lot of players, once they got here, they wanted to stay. He didn't change the perception of coming up here in the first place. Like that never really changed. I would say if anything though it does probably take a hit,

I don't know how substantial it is, because Messiah would have been the guy making the pitch. And now it's Bobby Webster. And Bobby's been in the seat for a while and Bobby's got Cashier in the league, but he doesn't have the same persona. Like Messiah is here, he's a bigger than life personality and he's got an aura to him.

And that's not something that can be replicated. Keith Paley can't make that sales pitch. He can't, he won't. You know, the ownership can't, the way that Messiah could. So, I think there's something to it. It's deeper in the weeds. I think the impact that Messiah had in terms of that reputation that you're speaking of. But, you plan, I guess I'm curious to see where it goes, you know

They get through the draft. I'm sure he saw this coming now Bobby and his staff stick around What happens in the next two weeks in the NBA? Because as we all know it's it's absolutely bedlam and the Raptors better have a plan and they better be ready to execute it and the Raptors better have a plan and they better be ready to execute it. Well, the moment that Yannis supposedly was open to being traded, people gave the Raptors a chance because of Maasai. And now that he's out, it's... and I don't know if Yannis is gonna be traded or not this offseason and how long he's in Milwaukee, but you have to think that whatever the odds were that the Raptors would land someone like him, even though as you point out he doesn't have the track record of going out and getting

big names outside of the trade for Kawhi Leonard, that the Raptors, those odds have essentially been erased. Possibly for sure, yeah I mean I don't think there's any doubt. I think what Versailles represented also was he was the guy that won. He was the guy that put together the team that won. And that's an important sales pitch for potential free agents or these big names we're talking of who effectively control their own destiny.

Like Kevin Durant is not, he's not 25, he's not his prime anymore. He told Phoenix and the league, there's like two or three teams they'll go to and that's where he went Like he went to Houston, you know, so that that's still the reality of the NBA I do think you know, that's hopefully where the Raptors took a hit the idea that Someone of that status maybe even quite right like it was reported on early like why wasn't ecstatic about coming up here I'm sure miss I sold it, you it. Can the next guy sell it?

Can Bobby Webster sell it? Can Keith Pelly sell it? I mean, that's gonna be a big, big story moving forward. Again, with the Raptors, with the Leafs, with I guess TFC, the Argos, the Blue Jays, if everything gets folded into one with Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment. Edward Rogers, Keith Pelley, and

whatever plan they're going to have for the Toronto sports scene because, you know, there's been a lot of consistency, a lot of credibility with Masai Ujiri, Brendan Shanahan, and others for a long time. And it feels like we've had two dominoes fall, major ones. The last month and a half was Shanahan and now Masai today today and I'm bracing for more impact as we move forward. Well, Hayes, how do you interpret sort of the beyond the savings that tree living makes here by getting to Veras under contract at four years by 4.38 million beyond the here and now impacted that, which is considerable considering every

dollar counts and we, we know what can happen when a Team gets capped out it needs things on its roster. They can't afford beyond that Do you think there's any you know kind of tone setting going on here with Brad tree living saying hey? This is this is a new era. This is not Kyle Dubas being buddy-buddy with all the agents and giving them every last nickel. This is an era where it's got to mean something to be a maple leaf and that's gonna cost you. Am I making too much of that? Is that dreaming or can you see an element of truth to that? There's an element of truth to it. I think it possibly was a perfect storm here with Tavares. You know, being here for seven years wanting to be a leaf, remain a leaf, his family's here, he's set up.

But when the stars signed Duchenne a week ago for effectively the same contract, right, with deferred money, it's effectively the same thing. It's actually a better cap hit for the leaves. for the leaves. That was also what should have been applied here. So I don't even know if it's necessarily as much that tree living, by doing this with Tavares, is swinging it so far in the other end of the spectrum, where it's like ruthless. I think it's more so that tree living is, by doing this and getting and selling Tavares

on the idea of accepting it and siding it, is that tree living is saying the days of a Toronto tax are over. We're not going to treat you differently because of this perceived pressure that comes with the market and this perceived tax that's necessary to possibly live and operate in this fishbowl that is the Maple Leafs. And I think that's probably what happened here. Yes, it's a discount based on what we're gonna hear and what's gonna be said.

And I'm sure if DeVaris got to market, maybe he could have got six million a year or seven million a year. So could Matt Duchesne. And so could other players. Jamie Ben maybe could have gone to market. You wanna stay somewhere, you wanna play, you wanna win. The Leafs, I think it was mandatory

that this finally happened. And I am hopeful that this is the beginning of them simply playing by the same rules as everyone else and accepting, expecting their players to understand that that's gonna be the case. Because we know with, not necessarily the Tavares deal, the original one, but certainly with the Marder deal, the Matthews deal,

I think Nylander's deal, it was just make them happy, don't extend it, make sure they're comfortable, whatever they need, whatever they want, just give it to them. Like that was the attitude. That was my perception of the attitude in the end with negotiation. And it was always silly, it was always gonna cause them a problem in the end, and they were always gonna play

by different rules, and I just, I think it hurt them in the end. And I think that's what this symbolizes to me to me if yes it's a discount but he's not making a million dollars or two million dollars he's still got term he's so he's still making good money and I think the Matt Duchesne deal was a sign to the rest of the league if he's willing to do that for Dallas why would John not be willing to accept that for Toronto you just got to sell it I think Trey Living sold it and I credit him for doing that.

I think you bring up a good point there Hayes about, you know, in the past, in the past, it felt like, hey, give these guys whatever they want or very close to it because, you know, it's hard enough to play in the league against everyone else. Why do we want more friction and more tension within the organization? So they got it, they didn't deliver. And John Tavares was a part of that group that didn't necessarily deliver come playoff time. They won one round. And now, you know, okay, two rounds because you win this year against Ottawa. But I guess now moving forward for Tavares, he's not going to be seen as the $11 million player. He's going to be seen as

the $4.38 million player. When it's all said and done how do you think the public perception of the John Tavares era is going to be viewed in Toronto? I think that's such a significant part of this and why it's a smart play for Tavares and then we're already seeing it sold as it should be I think if I'm running his PR sell it that you took a huge discount sell it that you were his PR, sell it that you took a huge discount. Sell it that you were never leaving. And sell it that the reason you're staying is because you want to win. Not based on comfort, not based on you're going to morph into an ambassador once you retire and stay in Toronto the rest of your life, which I do think now this sets him up

to do that. I think he just rolls into the next Daryl Sittler in the future, right? The former league captain that was here forever, that everyone loves, that's from here. And I think from his standpoint, that's a really smart play. Because the fact of the matter is, in this market, and I think a lot of the biggest hockey markets, in fact, I know all the biggest hockey markets, you have to be a mathematician half the time when it comes to your evaluation, because of the hard salary cap. Your number is always connected to your worth and your value and now that he's making 4.38

million, there's a big separation in terms of the spotlight on John compared to what's going to be on Austin and what's going to be on William Nyland or what's going to be on Matthew Nives when he signs his next deal. And I think that's wise for tomorrow'sres. Like, take a step back. Now, he still has to pull his weight. He still has to exceed the value of the contract if this team's gonna win. That's the reality of all of this cap mechanism.

You need the majority, if not all your players, to exceed their actual cap dollar for the formula to work and for you to win in the end. But I think this is a PR win for Tavares. Because you wanna stay here, you took last quote unquote, and I think it allows him to fade into the background, which started last year when he gave up the captaincy. He's likely gonna be a second, maybe third line center

by the end of the year, and certainly by the end of the contract. And if you're, again, two or three years down the road, and he's a 20 goal scorer, and just a crappy veteran, you don't want to be making seven or eight million. You want to be making 4.3. And I think he knew that. I think Trey Living knew that.

And I think in the end, both sides can be happy with that. Well, Brian, we appreciate you taking some time to join us because that's all I've heard throughout the day. But what does Brian Hayes think about all of this? I've been getting that, and I've been getting how is O's back. Those are the two things. Yeah, O's just like laying it on so thick

with the bad pass. Like it's such an outrageous play. No one's buying it. No one should buy it, but he's laying it on thick. But yeah, I appreciate you stepping in. Thanks guys. Like it's a big day day i wish i was in there with you will be back on monday there'll be more news it's gonna be fun but uh... enjoy the rest of the day because something else is coming for sure i

guarantee it you're gonna want to know about yeah they're gonna want to talk about on monday appreciate it and looking forward to uh... senior work whenever this golf uh... competition errors i think it's on tuesday right over now awesome boys forward to seeing your work whenever this golf competition airs. I think it's on Tuesday, right? Absolutely. Awesome stuff. Thanks guys. Thank you. There's Brian Hayes, the host of this very program Overdrive, mailed in Friday, brought to you by Boston Pizza Canada's favorite sports bar. Enjoy $15 lunches at BP where you get an entree, a side and a drink and you'll get an all in 20 minutes or less. A fast lunch doesn't have to be fast food. See you for a $15 fast lunch at your local Boston

pizzas. Overdrive continues on TSN 1050 and up on TSN 4. Let go from your job without a severance package? You need EmploymentLawyer.ca. Your employer is legally required to give you as much as 24 months pay when you lose your job. Call your Sam Firo and get what you're owed. Employment lawyer.ca Overdrive continuing on TSN 1050. We're also up on TSN for Marco in for Brian Hayes, who we just got to listen to alongside Frankie Corrado and Dave Fezchuck and a lot of the news is on. Oh, and this back.

You think he's okay? I hope so. Yeah. Got a big day on Tuesday yeah carrying the network is he not I'm not gonna lie like these chairs for six hours are not the most forgiving on your back no yeah si joint well is there some skepticism around the velocity of this bad backstory I think we're never I think never do that hey but he's up against Duffy so you know Duffy isn't gonna buy it no we should actually he should leverage that to see if we can get some like massage therapist here on Tuesday somebody told us that there is some sort

of massage mechanism inside a car inside a navigator that he was using. Oh yeah? And it helped? On the course. Okay. I don't know if it helped. I don't know if it was just product placement or what. Yeah, those massaging car seats, right? Like you would think they could work that into a golf cart nowadays. That's a little scary to think about someone's driving. Yeah, driving with a massaging car seat. Yeah, and they're Yeah, you think that would put you to sleep or if you're tired or they're pushing on something really like you got a knot And yes, like oh god, and you just Shoulder yeah that good It'll be alright. Yeah, if we can get an update on that

We will try to but Chris Armstrong from the Utah Mammoth Have to continually say mammoth to get that in my head. Uh, we'll join us at six oh five They've been busy jj paturka is now going to utah and see how busy they're going to be As they we lead up to the draft which is just over an hour away Josh luenberg at 6 30 to break down masayu jerry leaving the raptors at 630 to break down Masayu Jerry leaving the Raptors as we continue on TSN 1050 and we'll be moving over to TSN 2. Mail It In Friday is brought to you by Boston Pizza, Canada's favorite sports bar. Enjoy a $15 lunch at BP where you get an entree, a side, and a drink and you'll get it all in 20 minutes or less. A fast lunch doesn't have to be fast food. See you for a $15 fast lunch at your local Boston Pizza. Unmistakably Canadian.

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