OverDrive - OverDrive - May 13, 2026 - Hour 1 - Chris Johnston

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

Join Bryan Hayes, Jeff O'Neill and Jamie McLennan for Hour 1 on OverDrive! The guys discuss the Maple Leafs' dismissal of Craig Berube as head coach, the new era of the team beginning, the players' performance leading to the departure of Berube, the candidates for the position and the look of the roster in the organization. TSN Hockey Insider Chris Johnston on Berube's exit from the team, what led to the dismissal and Matthews' future next steps.

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your home smart speaker up on tsn four up on youtube live brian hayes the o'clock jeff o'neill jamie noodles mcclennon today's going on today yes there is lots going on today how we're lots going on noodles and it is a newsy day and i'm sure hazy b would like to get to the news of the day but sometime during the show i'm going to tell you about about listening to some country music in the back country and just pulling over to take a leak. Okay, good tease. I'd rather hear that story. Great tease.

That's coming up because I have a very similar story. Really? Of all the places in Ontario, you could pull over and take a leak. You're not going to believe this one. You're not going to believe what happened this morning. You two were traveling together. No. No.

I'll tell you later. We'll tell you later. Okay, we'll tell you later. That's a tease, man. That's a tease. That's way bigger than the Brubé news. We'll save that for the 5 p.m. hour. Okay, so you got to hang tight for what I witnessed this morning.

Okay. But, man, the Leafs are in the content game, aren't they? They are in the country. They have not played a meaningful game in three months, two months at least. And yet they just keep churning out news where earlier this morning, they announce via the team that Craig Barouba has been relieved of his duties. I think it's kind of sad. It's not sad, but it's like you just look at the main suspects that are here.

How many people have these guys mowed through? Not as many as Edmonton. Are you sure about that? Not even close. Oh, McDavid's played for like how many coaches? Five or six? Five. Why does that apply to him?

Okay. All of them. If you want to put, we're talking about. We're talking about the Leafs today. No, I understand. You can put an umbrella, but it's like Lou Lamarillo, Kyle Dubus, like it goes on and on. Mike Babcock, Sheldon Keefe, Craig Barube, like, it's a lot of people. And you're, like, are you telling me that they're going to continue to give these same guys the benefit of the doubt to go through another guy?

I wouldn't, man. I get it. You don't now just bring back. I get it. I get it. And if you want to play differently, bring back the music. and if you get pump 6-1, play Drake at the practice rink and skate around and practice you do whatever you want. But you're going to mow through somebody else.

How do you just not say we're breaking these guys up? Like you want to fire Craig, that's what happens in the big leagues. You have a season like this. All the categories where coaching is important, they didn't show up. They were horrendous. They were horrendous. And sometimes you get fired. I get that.

If you want to do that, go ahead. But what are they going to do next? It's already gone from analytics guy with Dubus and then a bunch of other people, and now it's back to analytics. So now it's almost like we're full circle. Who's the next Sheldon Keith type? I don't know. I just don't get it.

I understand what goes on in the big leagues, but I just, I can't for the life of me think that they're going to let these guys, like these guys here, Chica and Matt's think that these group of players with the right people, coaches, are going to turn it around and do something special, wrong. It's not happening. Well, I think what we need to look at is every organization's different. Expectations are different, all of that type of stuff. You know, you brought up Edmonton, you're right.

They've had different coaches, all of that. But they've been to the finals a couple times. So that's the biggest challenge there. We're talking about Toronto. They haven't had as many coaches, but they haven't had that much success. I think there's times where, you know, we're mad about it, But haven't we been going, isn't Vegas the standard? It doesn't matter.

Like, you know, you're looking at it. They fire guys all the time. All the time. He's fired to go and eight games left. This is a cutthroat business. Yes. This isn't about, and I, like, great coaches get fired. We're going to have one on in five o'clock hour.

Labby is an unbelievable coach. He's going to coach again in the NHL, but he has been relieved of his duties several times in this league. It just, it happens, oh, I understand what you're saying. But I think what what the, the, The outlier now is John Cooper and Jared Bedner. Everybody else is Roddy Brindamore. You're right. Everybody else is on three years, four years.

Okay, but Jamie, I'm talking about this specific group. I understand. If anybody, those gentlemen I just mentioned, think that they just need the right coach with that roster that they have in place. No. But you've got to be clear about what happened last year. Listen, I'm not a proponent that this roster of this team, is the greatest team in the league.

They're terrible. I don't think they're one of the three or four worst, though. They were horrendous defensively all year, arguably the worst team in the league all season. Do the players have to own 70% of that? Yes, 80? Fine, I'll give you 90 maybe. Craig Barubei has to own a lot of it, though. The head coach is responsible.

We just had Rodin Bremmer. What this team's about? First 10 minutes, how they're going to play, how they're going to buy in. Now, you can sit there and say, they should have bought in more. And with that, I wouldn't disagree. I think Baroube had a style of game that he was promoting. That's difficult to play, right?

And they tried it the year before, and it worked, and then it got away from them in the biggest game of their whole tenure in game seven against Florida in very embarrassing fashion, and the wheels completely fell off. But you can hate on the players all you want, And I'm not sitting here pumping their tires, but it's a reality of pro sports in 2026 that if you underperform to the extent that the Leafs did last year,

going from winning their division, making the playoffs nine straight years to being an absolute disaster, the GM and the coach are in big trouble. People are going to lose their jobs. And furthermore, the team looked disjointed and kind of quit on the guy. I don't see how Barube could walk back in the room. So I don't think you can keep them. out of spite to the players.

And I actually think this is a positive sign that Peli said, and I thought it was strange at the time, if you're going to get rid of tree living, I thought, just get rid of Baroube, too. How was he possibly going to stay? Agreed. But he did say, that's the GM's job. I'm going to hire a GM, and that GM will make the decision.

He hired Chica. Chica met with Baroubae on Saturday. It's been well reported by Dregs and others. Three, four, five hours they were talking about everything. Three days later, they decided, you're done and they're going to move on. So, you know, Chica, maybe it was predetermined, maybe it wasn't, maybe Chikas, I don't know where he's going to take this.

I don't know. I don't know who they're going to hire. What do you think the biggest factor in the firing was? Because I'm not sure John Chica was keeping tabs on the Toronto Police as closely as anybody thinks, and Matt's for that matter too. Do you think it was the statistical breakdown of how the team played and their defensive struggles in all of that? Do you think it was players' comments?

Do you think it was other staff? What do you think was the straw that broke the camels back where John Chikea said, I'm not doing this, I'm firing the coach? It might be a combination of all that, oh. And what I mean by that is exit interviews, I guarantee you Keith Pelly probably talk to some of the players. Regardless of whether they should weigh in and on or not, those are the guys that are going out there to play. I think you look at it analytically. You talk about it.

I know you don't want to hear it. But the last two years, the difference between year or one, in year two was goaltending. Goaltending propped up some of the things that may have gone deficient. This past year, they were injured and they weren't good enough. But at the end of the day, I don't think you choose a new coach until you figure out what your roster is going to look like. And that's the one thing.

That's why they're going to have a wide search. You don't just hire a coach today. I think you've got to hire the coach for the roster that you're building because it might be a young progressive guy if you are going to retool-old. Jamie, you can't build any kind of. You can't hire a coach for any kind of future roster because these guys only last for two years.

I understand that, but what I'm saying is I was defensive of chief, why they kept him because they're like, we don't know who he's coaching next year. We don't know if Austin Matthews puts his hand up and says, I want to leave and they're going to go young, and we need a hardened coach that just coaches straight-line hockey because that's the team they're going to build and rebuild. I don't know if that's the case.

The point being is they've deemed Craber Ruby's out. They're going to head in a different direction. And John Chike is putting a stamp on the organization. It's not that complicated, guys. You've been around for a long time. They were a disaster. Like, what are we talking about here? It's not deep.

It's not a conspiracy theory. We all watched them play. They were horrendous. Like, what coach survives that? You explain it to me. I have one question. I have one question. I just asked the question.

No, I know that. But you're asking it like, we're. I can't believe it. It's not tough to figure out. It would have been... Thanks, tips, I get it. It was a terrible year to you. You're going to fire the coach.

You're acting like I'm devastated. He got fired. But you're asking the question as if you don't know the answer. You watched them. They were horrendous. No coach survives that. It would have been managerial malpractice if they brought him back if the plan is to win next year.

They have to change it. Okay. All I'm saying is, if this roster, comes back and some smarty-pants coach comes in, good luck, because you're not going to win with them. That's all I'm saying. Get whatever coach you want. You got to give it a shot, is the point that. Good, do it. That's all I'm saying. Get another guy in there, and they're going to do their own thing, and they're just, they're not going to win, and that's what's going to happen. I get the impression this move would suggest to me, Chica has either sold them or they

asked them to sell them on the idea of them being a competitive team next year. I could be wrong on that, and I'm not going to sit here and predict that they will be, but if you want to be competitive next year, this was an obvious move. And it happened in Pittsburgh. You know what? Exactly. They got rid of Mike Sullivan. They brought in Mews, and the team made the playoffs.

They got dummied in the first round, but you know what? They made the playoffs. And I'm not sitting here saying that coach is going to make them a cup contender. I'm not, and I don't see it happening. But Chica and Sundeen, I'm assuming, have plans for the off season. I don't know if they could pull them off. Things have got to happen with this roster. there's no questioning that.

But if you think, because easy play could have been, I think this team's going up and smoke, I'm going to keep Craig around and then, you know, fire them 30 games in next season and bring in an interim, you know, hire Steve Sullivan as the interim head coach until the end of the year and then say, oh, it didn't work, trade Matthews, we're going to move in the other direction.

Maybe that ends up happening, right? Maybe it all blows up anyway. Matthews, Neelander, they decide we're going in a different direction. and a year or two, that's the direction they're going to take. But if you have the ambition of getting back on the horse next year, regardless of how anyone else feels about it, if that is the internal objective, we're going to try to finish with 95 plus points to make the playoffs, then use the bullet now, right?

Don't wait for 25 games in. Try to establish a new system and game plan and voice. and take another kick at the can. I agree. And I think that's what they're doing. I agree. If we dumb it down, there's no way you could bring it back with a new regime anyway. So I think Craig Barubi should have been let go with Brad Tree Living,

had Nussie La LaLan run the rest of the season as an interim, and then you start over fresh. Craig, we knew Craig was a dead man, Waukee. You could see in his body language. Looking back on it, I think if there was true serum, and Craig's too classy of a guy to do this, but I would love in a candid moment to go, did you do, you know,

did you execute everything that you wanted to do? And hear me out on this. There's probably nights where he's like, I wanted to sit 88 out or do something different. And whether he didn't do it or maybe from above or whatever, like to me there was things where I felt like he, he probably could have done something different with the personality that we see in Craig Barubi. Now, he has to own that.

They had a poor youth. think they look back as an organization and wish they pulled the trigger 20 games into last season? Maybe. Do you think? I don't know. That's the thing you can, in hindsight, you can go back and say, Team X should have done this at Christmas when they weren't responding. They could have done this. You should have traded this guy.

We can do it all until we're blue in the face when it comes down to it. But I think today's announcement was the least surprising thing that comes out of Leaf Camp, in my opinion. I don't know how you feel about the old. I would agree with that. And I think, listen, there's, yes, hindsight being 20-20, it actually worked out beautifully because everyone played a role in them winning the lottery. Like, that's the truth. Everyone being a part of the program led to the lottery balls falling their way, and now they have the first overall pick. But, you know, Matthews is front-center on everything here.

And, you know, whether or not he had his voice heard, I wouldn't be surprised. Chikas said no. like Jacquez said definitively, nope, zero, he had nothing to do with this. Maybe it was more indirectly. This is where you look at Matthews and the way that he was utilized with Baruba, which I understand Baruba's approach. Like his approach was we need to play like Florida, like St. Louis and 19, and it wasn't the right horse for the course or the horses for courses just weren't there for them.

Right. But you look at Matthews, you know, and the amount of times he's, start in his own end, the amount of matchups he'd have, where it was tough on tough for best player on best player, like Baroube was putting him in different positions and you know, I don't know if it works.

Using him more like Barkoff as opposed to an offensive, yes, I would not be surprised if the next coach, if the objective is we got to treat him like an offensive dynamo. Like Sheldon Keefe did. Maybe, oh. And I get that that didn't lead to a Stanley Cup.

I'm not arguing against that. But it doesn't mean it's not the right, you know, play for right now, or you've got to try something different. I get it. I get it. If you want to move forward and try something that's already been cycled through before, go ahead and do it with these guys. So what would you suggest they do that? What do you think? Brian, I think you're misunderstanding.

I get it. They want to make a change. But what they're doing, it's already the third time through. That's the only thing. It's been 10 years. So now you're on a second cycle of getting a different voice. So go ahead and do it. I get it, you've got to do it.

All I'm saying is we're talking about a group of players that are going to be on their third or fourth cycle. Mike Babcock, Sheldon, Keith, Craig Barubei, and now it's reverting back to another one. How many group of players get that opportunity to cycle through a different philosophy where you actually look at the players that go on the ice and say maybe different players? Hold on. Who's to say those players are coming back? Then that's my point. That's my point.

Martin's not here anymore. At this point, I don't even care if they come back. I really don't. But, oh, hear me out. Because what you need is if this is John Chica's team, and it is now, he might have a completely different philosophy and say, what have we talked about? They might have eight to ten new faces on there.

That's a different team. You might still have some of the same cast of characters. You're not flushing 20, but you might have a way different looking team next year. and that's going to have a new coach attached to it. So, yes, you're going to have, if you bring back Matthews and Nielander, which they're under contract, and those are star players, Tavares is going to be there. I know what you're saying, oh, but if everybody else has changed around that,

that's a different team. That's not the same cast of characters. I'd like to see it, Jamie, but we've already discussed the challenges that come to flipping out eight different players. And a couple more things on that. For starters, Marner's not here anymore. Right. Like, Marner, that is a massive piece that was here for nine years that is not here anymore. A lot of the Shanahan era has been moving out.

You know, Beruva is the last hire of the Shanahan era, right? Tree Living went out a month ago, month and a half ago. Yes, you have Matthews and Nylander and Tavaros and Riley, who are still here. I can't imagine Morgan Riley's here in the fall. We'll see. But that's a pretty major hit as well. So if you move off a coach, GM, Marner, and Riley within 18 months, that's pretty significant change.

Who knows what is going to happen with Austin and with Willie in the future. And those are the two main pieces. But I think what happened this year, and it was extreme, needs to be considered here. The issue these players had for nine years was they were not clutch. They did not have the ability to make the biggest plays under the brightest lights. That was the issue. with Babcock. That was the issue with Keith. And then it turned out to be the issue of

Baroube last year where they got to all these game sixes and all these game sevens and they all folded and they didn't perform enough. It was a very thin margin. We were talking about like, are you going to get a new coach to see if that guy can, and that's what Baroube was supposed to represent.

And unfortunately, he is on record as the coach of the worst meltdown of the mall. Of all the belt downs. Badcock, Keith, and Baruch, the worst of the worst is game 7 at home against Florida last year, and nothing is even within the stratosphere of that. This year was a completely different evaluation of everything

because it wasn't about the thinnest margins. Can you win game 7 against Florida or beat Boston in the Boston Garden? This was a complete meltdown. It was a completely different review, I would assume, from Chike and Company, because it wasn't about one piece or two pieces. Now you're talking about an organizational audit effectively. and that's effectively what he said today.

He said this is more of a big picture thing. Now what that means for Matthews and Neelander, and let's be clear, those are the two guys we're really talking about. Like those are the two best players. So far as is different now, right? John is just in a different place. He's still got a loud voice there and he's still, you know, got a legacy that he owns.

And, you know, he's a big part of that dressing room. But it's the captain. And then, you know, Neelander, the most offensive kind of player on the team and the most mercurial. player on the team is Neelander and how are they going to react to the next wave of coaching? I don't know. I don't have that answer.

Are they going to be here long term? I'm not sure. But this year in the meltdown is different than past meltdowns in terms of what the issue has been. Yeah. Ultimately, what it comes back to is today's world now, like it's what have you done for me lately? And that's the biggest thing. Like Bruce Cassidy won a cup and the guy. Dave is rock star coach.

It's like Vegas is like, don't like what we're seeing. And you can't get rid of the players, so it's eight games left towards here you come. Like, it's a cutthroat world right now. I mean, look at what the Islanders do. How many games left with that? Pete DeBoer coming in. Four games left. And they missed the playoffs.

And they got a hell of a player there, but they wanted their coach. And that's Patrick Waugh getting let go. Yeah. Craig Barubi gets let go. He won a cup. Patrick Waugh is a legendary coach. and done a great job. Maybe Patty Roy comes through town.

I don't know, man. It depends. Why not? This is the one thing I would say is, and I'm being respectful here, is it a desirable spot right now with where the organization at is for a legacy coach, or is it better for a younger, up-and-coming Dan Mews, Mani Maholtra type guy, a first time at it where you've got a different team because I don't know how many legacy coaches. Certainly you want the money.

You want the Toronto market. That's going to be the question, though, Noodle. But it's different, man. I agree with you. But Babcock, effective, Babcock came here because they paid him that money. That's why he came here.

He didn't have some burning desired of coach in Toronto, in my opinion. They offered him more money than any coach in the history of the league had ever been offered. So he jumped on it. And I guess that's the question. To answer your original question, putting money aside, no, I don't think it is. You know, I wouldn't say it's on top the list. I would put Edmonton if they get rid of Knoblock higher than the lease, because you got McDavid and Drysidal and Bouchard.

You're not eight pieces away. Right. But here you do have the first overall pick coming, which I would think would be enticing. The challenge of, you know, it's the Toronto market. You get resources that you're not going to get elsewhere. It obviously would be the epitome of a resume builder if you can make it work here. But it takes a strong mentality to bring it on here in Toronto. Don't you think the coach, like first and foremost, if I signed here,

don't you think they would be like, I want a long-term deal? Because there might be a couple years. Yes. You know, it might be a couple years of turning things around. But I don't know if that's the case, so noodles. Like, that's the thing. If they're trying to win next year, not win again. I'm not saying Stanley.

They're trying to make the playoffs. You're right. Try to make the playoffs next year. So how many moves away? Like, here's the other thing. You're in the Atlantic. You're not in the Pacific. So who are you knocking out?

That's the thing. And just so you know, Florida's getting healthy, and Detroit's going to try and do exactly what the Leafs are doing in the off-season. Hey, so let me ask you something. Okay. He's still fired up. By the way, when I was taking a piss, the guy that honked his horn at me,

I wish he rolled into the farm field and rolled over. Anyway. Because I don't see it the same way. You want Craig Baroubae to be the coach for the next decade? I'm trying to tell you, I don't care who gets hired or fired. Craig's a friend of mine, but he got fired. The team was terrible. You totally missed the point on all of it.

What is it? Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. You talked about making the – what is the – we've seen it with Pittsburgh. Like they tried to claw into the playoffs. Year after year they got dummied in the first round. What point of – what is the sense of –

What is the sense of doing that, in your opinion? To just make the – like, let's just get back into the playoffs and probably get slaughtered in the first round. So you tell me what is the purpose of doing that? If you're trying to – there's this long-term kind of thought process here. What is the sense in doing that? I think the sense in doing this hulkster is that if you hire the right people and you build the program and you move forward with a problem,

a process where you feel like, again, I sound like Keith Pelly. You are. You are aligned. Yeah, you're horizontally and vertically aligning yourself, you dumbass. You are Pellie. Finkle is Eindhorn and you are Pelly. Well, and what I'm saying is if you're building a program where you're anti-tank or if you're against the idea of just being awful all the time, this is the process you take.

You try to hire the right GM. I don't know if Chuck is. We'll see. You try to hire a good coach. A good coach, period. Not a coach to win one game or get you great for one season or a guy in five years that will build with a group. But that instills the system. Exactly.

And if the payoff is you're better next year, awesome. And then you keep growing on that. Ultimately, what happened today doesn't change the fact that they don't have a good enough farm system. They need way more picks. They need way more kids. They need to turn over their defense. All of that is factual. But you're not going to do it all in one off season.

and ultimately they have two roads they can go down I guess the one you're promoting is you got to get rid of everybody and you got to blow it up and plan for five years from now and that might be the road they should take I'm not saying it's not it won't be in five years we may look back on it and say

they should have done that the other one is don't blow it up figure out which players you want to keep which ones you feel you've got to acquire hire the right people and try to build moving forward. Okay.

And whether that means to 80 points or 100 next year, I don't know. I'm just telling you the danger of saying with the question marks ahead with Austin Matthews, if you want to crawl into the playoffs and get slaughtered in the first round, then the contract runs out or he asks out and then you get nothing left for him. The only time to replenish everything would be now. If you wait, good luck with that. Sure. But I don't know if those, like, is the Matthews future linked to the news today? I have no idea.

I have no idea what I don't talk to Judd Maldiver or Austin Matthews. I do not know his plans. But I guess what I'm saying is whether he's going to stay or not in two years, is it matter of Barube's back next year or not? I'll tell you one thing. If I was dealing with that situation, I would say we're giving you a month. And by the draft or before the draft, we need to know what your intentions are because we're not going to sit and wait and try to make all these transactions to impress you

or whatever it is you feel that's needed, we're not doing that. We got a business and a team to run here. We want to know the deal. What's the deal? I don't think you have, like, if you're John Chica, you can't build this team for Austin Matthews. You build it for John Chica and the Toronto Maple Leafs. And if Austin Matthews is a part of it, great.

If he's not, then you move on from him. It should be a scenario where you're trying to build a program that wins and give yourself of a window of 10 years. And that's the thing. So today, well, today. You know what your name is? It's not Keith Pelly. It's Keith Smelly.

Go ahead, Keith Smelly. Go to commercials. Let's go to commercial. Let's pick it up on the other end because I still have more thoughts on this. Okay. And I need to hear this piss story, too. I wish the guys. Keith Smelly.

Second grade. Yeah. This guy's literally named. Yeah, you're Keith Smelly. Thank you got me. All right. That's you. What could I put on, I've got to come up with the name.

No, you don't have to. You can't come back. Bounters off of me sticks to you, right? I'm rubber your glue. Keith Smelly, P.U. All right. Peter LaVuillette in half an hour. Possible segment in the future.

Pelly or Smelly. I like that idea. And I got a list for you. I thought you'd want to list today. Love it. Right. Now, don't piss all over my list. It's your show, man.

Smelly is your show. Your show, Smelly. I don't want you to be all over it, but I have a list that I'll get to later. Oberside continues up on YouTube live. Catch everything soccer with Bell's game time bundle. Get 5 TV with TSN plus 5150 internet, all for $99 a month. Price guaranteed for two years with a two-year internet and TV term and auto pay credit.

Visit bell.com.ca for more details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. This May, IHart Radio celebrates Asian Heritage Month. Discover powerful. Stories, vibrant cultures, and unforgettable music. From inspiring podcasts to playlist that span east, south, southeast, and West Asian artists. We're honoring the voices shaping our world. Listen now on the free IHRRadiio app.

And at iHardio.ca. All right, Overdrive continues, powered by Fandul. We've got Peter Lavilette coming up in half. half an hour, Chris Johnston here in a moment. Jays, man, they desperately need a win tonight. Desperately, you cannot get swept twice by the raise in two weeks. But they're on the verge of it happening

tonight, don't cease on the mound. Big, big night. I've got some Vladdy stats that are very concerning. Dis or data, the baseball version coming up a little bit later on. We've got PJ Championship picks and I've got a list for you guys that I'll squeeze in at some point between

the same thing. The smelly list. The smelly list. A smelly list. I've got a smelly list. Joe, from the bridge, you better have that board up, the smelly list. The smelly list. All right. I've got a perfect video that someone tweeted is. Too bad you're not on social media anymore.

No. Because there's some great interaction going on right now about how the O-Dog is going to react to my list later on. Yeah, Roger Dorn, I saw it. Roger Dorn. I will piss right on your list on your smelly list. Dorn, I am Roger Dorn and you will be Lou Brown with my list. That Sticky Lou Brown said. here in your, it says you got to do calisthenics and Lou Dorn,

just, or Roger Dorn threw it on the ground and took a leak on it. That's right. Lou Brown. I can't wait to hear this story too. It's a very good. The list is good. The story is a story. You're not going to believe this guy.

You're not going to believe this guy. I'm workshopping a new name for him. I'll come up with it. Here's Chris Johnston, our TSN Hockey Insider. There he is. CJ. What do you make of the first week of, on the job for John Chica. They win the draft lottery, then they end up firing Craig Baroube.

Pretty crazy first week. How do you look back on it? Yeah, I mean, look, certainly probably some wins of change blowing through the office, which is probably, you know, I would say as a positive for the organization. And, you know, the way I always viewed this Burube situation, I just, I operated under the belief it would be surprising if he came back. I think with a 30-point decline in the standings, lots of things that we obviously saw watching the team closely over 82 games, you know, it was going to be hard to come back from that, I feel like, and especially if you're making the changes at the top of the organization, why not make it a sort of a clean start for everybody? So I wasn't really surprised by today's news. It was certainly surprised when they

won the draft lottery just because the odds were not stacked in their favor, but, you know, I think it's probably changed, you know, the feeling in that front office. I know Chike is still working through, you know, finalizing exactly who's going to be working for him and things like that. So he's been pretty busy meeting with everybody. But, you know, he's getting to work quickly here alongside Matt Sundeen. And, you know, making this coach hire, he called the most critical decision a GM can make.

So I'll be very curious to see where he ends up there. So have you heard any more about the potential meeting with Austin Matthews? And do you feel like that's something that should be on the front burner instead of kind of on the side burner based on all of the activity? going on? I actually don't think it's bad that it's taking some time, noodles, and, you know, as of this afternoon, that's still not set yet exactly when that meeting is going to take place. I don't think it's going to be this week. And the reason I don't think it matters is because what I know to be true from Matthew's standpoint is, obviously he's open to these conversations.

He wants to get to know the GM better. You know, it's natural that that happens, but he's also interested in seeing what they do. And so to me, you know, they're not going to be changed in this roster around in any meaningful way between now and probably the draft. I guess we see the occasional trade during the Stanley Cup final. But reasonably speaking, there's still some time before they get to work here. And, you know, Matthews is at home in Arizona. He's rehabbing from his knee injury. Get the sense.

He's just chilling in the offseason. And these conversations are going to happen over a period of time. You know, from Chica's side of things, you know, one thing he pointed out today to the reporters down at the practice rank was that by doing it a little later, he actually is going to go into that conversation with Matthew's understanding more, right? If he flew down, let's say the day after he got the job, you know, there was so much he didn't know about the lease organization. You know, this has given him a chance to talk to other players. Obviously, he's restructuring the front office. He's making a change of the coaching staff.

He's going to have a better feeling for why the Leafs are where they are, maybe how Austin might view some things that have gone on inside the organization. And that talk will be more productive as a result. So, you know, while this is a big storyline for us in the media and for the fan base, understandably, I don't know that it's so bad if it takes a little time before that conversation happens because I just think there's a lot of, there's a lot of balls that have to fall into place before Austin's making any decisions or declarations anyway. So, CJ, we had a bit of a issue earlier in the show.

And just going back to the Barubei, while the brainiac of the show over there, Smelly, who runs the operation. Is this firing of Craig Barube? Is it as simple as last year was terrible? Like, is that what we're looking at as far as a standard in the National Hockey League? Like, you have one bad year where you're a dumpster fire, and defensively you're terrible, that costs the coach's job? Like, is that basically what we're talking about, you think?

Because I asked the question that Hayes thought was lunacy that I asked it. What was the biggest factor in this decision? Was it the players speaking out? Was it people in the organization, or was it simply that last year was a disaster? I think it's all down to last year myself. And obviously, John Chiker didn't get into any specifics on why he made this move at his press conference. I think part of that is, like, he wasn't part of this. Why air out any dirty laundry here?

I mean, obviously, the one thing we can all say about Craig Brubay, he's well-liked. You know, I think there's a lot of respect for him. You know, it's been pretty evident. Keith Pelly thinks highly of him. I think on a personal level, everyone liked the guy, but the performance was tough. It's a difficult one to defend. Even coming off of winning the Atlantic Division two years ago, I mean, it was a precipitous fault to drop 30 points in the standings.

There's lots of factors, the injuries, the goal tending, there's all sorts of stuff we can point to. But ultimately, a lot of the things that a coaching staff can affect, you know, the leaves were at the bottom of almost all of those rankings. And so I do think it ultimately just comes down to that. There's a clear opportunity here with a change in the front office to change behind the bench. You know, you're trying to pivot into a new era, I would say, for this team. It's a natural place to start. So I do think it is one bad year.

And look, it may not be fair. But it's the way it goes in coaching. I mean, Chris Knoblock looks like he's out in Edmonton. He went to two cup finals in the first round this year. You know, he's been a nine playoff series and two and a half years behind their bench. and that's likely not going to be good enough to keep his job in Edmonton. I just think especially when you're coaching in markets where the team expects to win, when you don't win and when you don't advance far enough,

there's not a lot of patience for that. Well, I think that is what a lot of defense want to know, is what will the internal expectations be next season with a new coach, with a new GM? We know they have the offseason in front of them where there's going to be some turnover, but do you think they believe Chica, Sundin, et cetera, that they can do enough with a coach hiring, a draft, free agency, where their internal expectations next year will be

that they make the playoffs. Do you think that's what they're trending towards? Yeah, I 100% believe that they believe that. Now, there's clearly a lot of work to be done. You don't see a lot of teams go from 28th overall and jump back into the playoffs. Now, I guess conversely, you don't see a lot of teams go finish 28th overall that out players is as good as Austin Matthews and William Meilander

and some things that the Leaves clearly have as benefits on their roster. But absolutely, at this stage of the off season, before this Matthews stuff has been resolved, before we've seen what they do in free agency and what the trade market yields, I think they're approaching this summer as though they need to make some moves to get the team back to being a playoff contender next year. And look, it's a tough thing to imagine. them doing, if only because

who's coming on in the division, you know, you see Montreal appears to me, you know, obviously they're still playing, but like they're going to be around for a while. You know, Buffalo will see how things proceed there. They have a big, you know, question mark around Alex Tuck, one of their best players, but, you know, they're arriving. I think we expect

Florida to be back after, you know, resting up all those, those injuries they had this year. Tampa and, you know, still a good team. I mean, the Leaves probably enter next year on paper right now if we had to, like, what, the fifth or six best team in the Atlantic, depending, I guess, how you view Boston and Detroit.

So it's a tall task, but they're operating that way that they need to be competitive right away. And, you know, it sets up as a massive summer. It's hard to sketch an easy path back, I guess, other than if we imagine, hey, all of a sudden, the goal tendings great, they're healthier, Matthew scores 50 goals again, and, you know, you're adding in some new players this summer.

I mean, maybe it's as simple as that. But I think it's going to be a tough. task, but that's the one that Chike has signed on to take on. Yeah, well, that's it. And I think ultimately, you know, the first overall pick, if they go with the presumptive first overall pick, that would be Gavin McKenna. That's the scoring winger who's 18. Goaltending, they've got to pick which two guys they want to keep.

They'll do that. But the defense is what really sticks out here. Like that's really, I know we're focused on Matthews and obviously he deserves a ton of focus. and whether or not, but I got to believe if he's sitting there saying, hey, I want to win here in Toronto, he's smart enough to say, you've got to do something about that defense court. Like it was a disaster last year.

Like what is reasonable to expect in terms of turnover on the back end, CJ? Well, look, at least in free agency, there are a few players. I mean, this is not a, obviously, as we all know, It's not a free agent class with a lot of headline names, but there are defensemen that are set to become UFAs. Darren Radish, perhaps Rasmus Anderson, although there's always this feeling when Vegas makes a trade for a guy like that, that they'll find a way to sign them some point between now and July 1st.

You know, you even look at the Trubas. And, you know, look, there's players out there, and, you know, they might have to do it by trade. But absolutely, it's the only thing. John Chalk has been very careful now. Today was the second day that he's spoken to the media. Obviously, he did a hit with you guys as well after his introductory press conference last week.

But he's not said a lot yet in public. And when he has spoken, he hasn't given up a lot. But one thing he has been clear about is the area he's focused on is their blue line. So, you know, it's pretty obvious that he sees that gap. And I think that they can make moves. Now, do they make the right moves? You know, it might take a risky trade. It might take, you know, trying to move out of more.

Morgan Riley, who while I will fully sit here and say has not performed at the level the last couple of years that preceded it, it still plays a lot as a defenseman and you're not necessarily getting better just by shipping him out. So there's some big decisions looming there. I certainly think they're going to come back with a different looking blue line and whether or not it ends up being better probably will dictate whether they're successful in kind of getting back to a window at least for their playoff team or if they're, you know, going to be slugging along somewhere where they don't want to be well below that playoff cut off line.

And just to jump on that, keep in mind there's teams that are still playing. For example, Montreal, like we've talked about how Montreal is young and up and coming. And, like, they've got players that are playing in LaValle right now that are NHL ready. So you look at potential players that are on Montreal's roster that might just get pushed out because of these young players. And I think that's the thing, you know, does Carrier on the back end get pushed out? Reinebacker's ready. Like that, you know, you might be able to trade for a value player like that.

You know, Carrier may not be the sexiest name, but he's an upgrade on what you have on the right side as of right now. So I think that's probably stuff that if I'm John Chica, I'm looking around and saying might be able to have nip and tuck here, add, you know, upgrade in that position. If I need a right shot defenseman in the five hole, Carrier might be a guy or, you know, stuff like that. That's what Chica has to do if he wants to turn it around quicker. value out there.

Exactly. That's the stuff that I would argue he would be looking at throughout the league. Well, and he's got to decide, look, we know about the Matthew Nye's talks at the deadline. Like, is he looking at reopening that door or not? I mean, if you make that trade, to me, a key part of that kind of trade would be what you're getting back in terms of a defenseman that can make a difference in your team. So, you know, if you're going to draft number one overall, and if you're going to, most likely take a forward, which seems to be where any team that has a number one pick

would be leaning based on what we're hearing from the draft experts, then maybe there's an opportunity to move out another forward to try to get a D. So there's ways to go about trying to do it. But as I say, I think these are going to be with where the Leafs are and how little they kind of have to play with, they're going to be semi-risky trades. They're not going to be guarantees maybe when we hear about it when it's first announced. And then you just got to see how it works out. But, you know, that's kind of the fine line they're trying to walk here, you know, getting back into, you know, I think most teams might look at this and be like, hey, maybe this is the time to rebuild. That's just not on the table in Toronto. So, you know,

they're trying to do something not a lot of teams have done successfully. J. C.J., can you quickly explain, like, how Matthew Nyes' name came on the radar? Because they can say they weren't looking into moving him, but they were. So why was his name surfacing? I think it's as simple as most of the other. other pieces that they might consider trading, O'Dog had no movement clauses, right? Like, if you were ever going to say try to trade a William Mielander and make a big trade, I mean, he can limit where he goes. In fact, he can say, I'm going nowhere.

It's happened in the past. It actually happened at this deadline, right? Colton Perico squashed a deal from St. Louis to Buffalo. So, you know, the key thing with Matthew, I think, is that he's an attractive asset. He's signed for several years into the future, which is valuable to teams. and they could trade them to any one of the 31 clubs, meaning they could really conduct an auction for them. And I actually had someone say to me this week,

who works for an NHL team that I won't name, he said if we were trading right now, we would actually give up more for Matthew Nyes than we would for Austin Matthews. And it's nothing to do, obviously, with the gap and what the teams are. But, you know, he's like, with Matthews, we would know if he wanted to come to us

that he was not going anywhere else. So we wouldn't be under the same pressure. And he said, you know, he's only got two years left. on his contract and we don't know what that's going to cost. He was just saying the value of knowing for sure you've got five or six more years of Nyes in his prime already signed and would probably force him to give up more in that trade than for Matthews.

So it's sort of hard for us to get our minds around because obviously, you know, as we all think highly of Matthew Nyes, but he's not had the kind of career and he's not going to have the kind of career. Awesome Matthews did. But, you know, when it comes to the value attached to that player, it's, it's, it's, It's really, really high. And, you know, the discussions I know they had at the deadline, one team puts six pieces, I believe, into an offer for NICE.

And obviously it wasn't good enough to meet what the Leafs needed to pull the trigger. But, you know, they got a lot of teams' attention by being willing to listen on them and, you know, ultimately didn't make that deal. Now, it's a brand new front office. Maybe some of the pressures are a little different that they have the first overall pick. I'm not sitting here saying they're definitely going to shop them again. but, you know, it's happened before. You can't rule it out as a possibility.

Awesome. Great stuff, CJ. Thank you for doing this, buddy. We'll do it again soon. All right, guys. Talk soon. There is Chris Johnston, our TSON Hockey Insider. It's an interesting take on the value of Nyes and based on no movements and trades.

Ag and cost certainty. Cost certainty where he is in his career. All right. More on that into the next hour. Peter Alavileck coming up. We've got our PGA championship picks as well. Jay's raised tonight, Overdrive, continues up on TSN4.

Catch everything soccer with Bell's game time bundle. Get 5 TV with TSN plus 5150 internet, all for $99 a month. Price guaranteed for two years with a two-year internet and TV term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for more details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. I'm Luke Wilson. Join me each week for Film Never Lies. Since retiring from the NFL, I've had a lot of my mind and now got my own show.

So if you're tired of lazy takes, if you want honest conversations, join us each week. Film Never Lies, available on all TSN platforms in the IHeart Radio app. All right, Peter Levy Letton, the next hour. Got a story to tell you of what I witnessed this morning. Got a list for you as well, and a perfect way to set that up. I'm telling the story, by the way. Oh, okay. You can tell the story, and then I'll give you my viewpoint of the story.

I need both sides, and then I will decide what the truth is. So we've had a fiery hour. I think we've got to play the Major League clip here. Lou Brown, Roger Dorn, just as good. kind of a tease of what is likely going to happen in the next hour go ahead joe luke i want a word with you here your that does sit up you want me to do i got it right here in my contract says i don't have to do any calisthenes i

don't feel unnecessary so what do you think about that okay so there's lou brown and roger dorne The O'Dug and yours truly in the next hour, right on my list. And the story of Peter Lavillette will get into the Sabres win last night. Vegas and overtime. Can Minnesota survive? Vladie, I guess he's down at the park in the cage, working hard. He's trying to break out of this slump.

They need them tonight, man. You cannot get swept again by the race. So more on that. PJ Championship picks coming up as well. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and up on YouTube live. You've been listening to Overdrive, powered by Fan Duel. Fan Duel, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score.

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