OverDrive - OverDrive - May 20, 2025 - Hour 1

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

Join Bryan Hayes, Jeff O'Neill and Jamie McLennan for Hour 1 on OverDrive! The guys discuss the Maple Leafs' series defeat against the Panthers, the disappointing Game 7 performance by the team, the future of Mitch Marner and Brendan Shanahan in Toronto and the next steps for the roster. They also give their perspective of what went wrong in the series, the priorities for the franchise and the landscape of the team. 

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presenting partners Sun Life and official partners Air Canada and MasterCard. Tickets at Cirque du Soleil dot com. Alright a lot of people are wondering if we're going to continue this tradition of playing this song. And it's mandatory. It has to happen. It will stop when they win the Stanley Cup. When the Maple Leafs win the Stanley Cup, you'll have a very different introduction. Okay, so...

Very unfortunate we have to play it, but we have to play it. I'm disappointed in the song, because I want this to be a friendly space for all the players playing okay and i don't want you to be too critical i don't want to give i don't want to place too much pressure on the guy well that's fair i wouldn't want to do that but i would say if they made it to the next round and lost i don't think it's a sounds you're probably right probably something probably right in there so this was probably this is the bar this is the bar where this song gets played yes i, I think that's acceptable. And the way you lose sometimes too.

Because if they lost in double overtime the other night, maybe it's a little different. I don't know. Here's one of the things I've been thinking of the last couple of days, because I'm sure the two of you are like me, my mind has been racing. My mind has been racing, Hayes,

because I thought to myself, how many different ways can we actually do this show? This is a lot of years in a row doing the exact same show Yes, it is in many ways and that's why the music I think represents, you know what you're preparing for here now There's different elements to it There's there's different discussions about the future like it does feel like it's possibly a little bit different Being in the building will discuss that and how that felt by the third period compared to maybe previous years but

Naturally, and I think we're all guilty of this like once they lost it it launches into big picture stuff What happens with Marner what happens with Tavares? what happens with Shanahan and you take a step back and you start looking at the numbers and And there there's there's more sample size, right? You're more focused on their 0 and 7 and winner take all games in the weirdest way And again, I understand why it happens. They actually didn't get criticized enough for how awful the game was Because it launched into July game was because it launched into july first chatter it launched into what what about the fans and what about the jerseys on the

ice as bad as game five was and it was awful game seven was worse way worse they got destroyed but watching the first six or seven minutes. I'm like, I can't believe these are two teams in the same league shot attempts for 21 21 nothing six minutes in that's what's mind-boggling is that was another Opportunity where you would think to plant the seed to the opposition to say the dreams up boys

We had a good run. We've been to the finals two years in a row say the dreams up boys we had a good run we've been to the finals two years in a row we're into the second round of year three of this run maybe we just have nothing and maybe they stole the momentum back and they're gonna crush us tonight instead they're the team that absolutely smoked the opposition the team that you and for the captain after the game to come out and said we had too many passengers and the first comment he made to your point they were way hungrier than us that postgame comment they were way hungrier than us I found that to be bizarre a world yeah it's the worst indictment you could possibly have and then they say we had too many

passengers when you you laid an egg you're he was terrible they were all Matthews was but there wasn't one good no I was gonna really was can't you can't go well that guy had a good night or whatever. And really, if you're going, if Max Domey and- Steve and Lorenz. And Lorenz and them are your best players. And they had okay nights, but what are you expecting if those are your guys?

Exactly, you're not, you know, Florida said, hey, we'll give those guys breakaways. They wasn't Nylander, it wasn't Tavares, it wasn't Matthews, it wasn't Marner that got those breakaways. It you know early on once after that first ten minutes they got a couple looks Bob made a couple great saves they did you get it they settled in in the second half of that and then the second period he would think okay we're in the game like I thought okay they got through

the first I don't know how you felt but they got through that first period and I thought okay now they can win this game because they're gonna come out and go we're not good like everyone thought the same thing we weathered and in the second period it was worse it was exponentially worse and in reality the second Seth Jones scored they may as well have taken the skates off and so we can't do this yeah we're not doing this because it was three nothing before you could even flinch it felt like the one goal counted for three yes that's exactly right

like if they were kicking field goals the panthers like that's every every goals were three and i know this is a side note but that a hundred percent was a goal yes that the jones gore absolutely was absolutely lost seven one that was the league in the breast be like and the bad not and good on let's just relax I actually actually thought Paul Maurice was like I don't want to do the Jim Hiller thing here and Challenge it and it doesn't come back and then the Leafs maybe get a power play and get a little life

Like they just let it go Because the Leafs were beating themselves and Florida was all over them and it was sick. That was a hundred percent of gold Yeah, I agree with you and the end it the amount of that he had some bizarre old comments too i kids been a long time since i said this but more what the hell are you talking about talking about how that leaves players have to pay the price and matthew could chalk coming out and saying if this team was somewhere else it would be way better what the hell are these guys talking about

i actually think they're pumping everyone everyone I believe that for next year can just make them believe that they're actually really good so if we play them next year we'll smoke their asses again I have no idea what the hell they're talking about I have said that consistently with all of Brad Marsh's commentary they're punking is that Marshaan is being completely disingenuous and he's trolling them and he owns them and he does own them he owns them he was phenomenal throughoutuous and he's trolling them and he owns them and he does own them. He owns them. He was phenomenal throughout the series. He's five and oh against the Leafs in game sevens. That's a stat that may never be broken. An individual player being five

and oh in game sevens against another opponent. He wasn't a passenger. He was great. He was great. But listen, Marciano will say he was composed. Like he's a great speaker. He's a great quote. Kachuk for me is just simply trolling people. And let's consider who we're talking about here. If that's Barkov, I would say that's kind of an interesting thought. Matthew Kachuk, this is what he does.

This is how he operates. We're gonna trust the word of Matthew Kachuk and Brad Marshan on this market, a market they've never played in before. I just, and what bothers me is that naturally the market, and I guess we're falling victim to it right now, has fallen hook, line and sinker for it as a distraction, discussion and commentary,

which in my mind actually proves the complete opposite of pressure. Because today down at at locker cleanout Guys are being asked about that and they can filibuster and they can just blow v8 be like well. Yeah, it's tough like hey Thanks for not asking me about how I played Let's talk about the pressure or how every time it gets to a game seven we lose and I don't play well It's the biggest cop out on earth and it sickens me that that people are actually buying into it like hey Matthew Kichuck made a great point. That's why the Leafs lose all the time in these big games. It's ridiculous

It's disingenuous. Well, it's insulting and I wish that one of the Leafs stepped up today and said can those guys shut up? They don't they're not from here. They don't represent us. I don don't want to hear it I love it here and we're gonna win here that's what I wanted to hear one of these guys say most notably the captain but that's not in his DNA that's not how Matthews operates he wants to get his media done not say much and leave and that's that's the way he works I don't know what I heard today what was more I don't know if concerning is the word or just disappointing or whatever like William Nylanders like that's one game like it's not one game Willie's taken the I'm too cool common collective over the cliff too far now

and if anybody wants to think oh because the philosophy on this guy in the thought process on this guy was oh he performs in the playoffs he's not a part of the issues why they don't win. Yeah, he is. He was horrendous. Horrendous. Game five and game seven, Willie was as bad as he can play. His effort in game seven was crazy.

It was crazy bad. Now, he's not alone. Again, this isn't about just Willie. No. But you're right. He gets credit. And in many ways, I think it's accurate and it it works for me a lot of times is you know nothing gets to him he's cool is calm he loves it

you can have an answer like that man this crappy game nothing like my mind in a sense like at some point lost again to game seven i'm on i think people but you disarm people with the truth like i would have somebody who could have just said I needed to be better I'm not going to talk about my teammates I'm going to look at myself and say I needed to be better and I will be I'm going to

have a great summer and work out hard and be back that whole exercise of having like once they talk after the last game there's no sense of having the guys come in and talk again it's a nonsense thing they're not going to say anything different I have no idea you know like there was some nonsense questions they instead of saying to the coach Well, how did you think Austin Matthews played in game seven? Somebody asked? How did you like coaching them? I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? Yeah, what are you exactly? Well, and that's that's again the whole pressure thing. No one's getting grilled down there and

Shelter these guys. Let me just say the thing about the pressure in playing this market and it's that's not it's kinda harsh to say but when you're a professional athlete you don't think much of the media okay coming in the locker you like you totally not not to the to the extent of like if you came in and i was playing i'd be like here's this loser again he's gonna bug me and ask me questions yes that

exactly start not to stay in the line i don't know loser again he's gonna bug me and ask me questions yes that exactly it's not like a lot of media member of the news of the members of the media are my friends now but during I'll be like here come the losers to bother me and I got to answer these questions so if that's the case why would what they say or what they write why would that affect anybody I don't think it I don't what are we talking the media you just think that there are people that come in and bother they're right why would that affect anybody i don't think it is like i don't what are we talking to me you just think that there people that come in and bother you so why would anything that they do create more pressure or it's a difficult place so i just don't know what people

are talking about the only thing i'd thought of when that when i heard that and obviously we've had couple days to decompress or at least think about it we see it in new york we sit in philadelphia we see it in Philadelphia, we see it in you know big city. Boston LA. Boston LA. This is a big city. What what what's happened here, the interpretation is there's that line it's like well that happens in America, this is Canada and that doesn't. This is a big

city. There's six million people in this area or around. Like it's loud, it's noisy, it's a passionate fan base. They're allowed to do that. And as we'll call it the bad, there's a lot of good that comes with it too. Nobody's talking about how Mitch Marner had that comment, well, you get treated like gods. Yes, you do get treated very well. But the way I looked at it is this is a big market and it gets you think if the new york

rangers had that effort you would they wouldn't get boot off the ice of court exactly like exactly it that's right i don't think it's just reserved for while in toronto there's there's big markets everywhere and there's passionate fan bases everywhere yes and and are there crazy people that will do crazy thing? Yes but there is probably a million fold more the opposite way that will faint when they meet you. Literally faint or tear up when they meet you and see you and you know that's the ebbs and flows of a big city a big market and a lot of history and yes there's a lot of

volume there's a lot of coverage course i get it it is different and there is no bigger disparity hot market to the bottom the lowest market then in the n.h.l. like if you look at the dallas cowboys compared to the jacksonville jaguars it's not as big of a gap in terms of coverage and craziness and popularity as it is with the maple leaves in the flor Panthers. You know like it's just not like that that's that's just the way it goes. There's a huge disparity in the sport where the biggest

markets and the seven Canadian ones would be at the top of that list or front but there's there's certainly four or five six seven American markets that are huge and love their hockey and have a long history and a lot of coverage. There's a big disparity between them and the teams at the bottom, the bottom seven or eight teams that just don't have tons of fans, tons of media coverage, tons of history. So there is a big disparity and obviously the Leafs are at the top of that list. You know, I actually listening to the media today, you know who I thought looked and sounded very comfortable?

Who? Mitch Marner. to the media today, you know who I thought looked and sounded very comfortable? Who? Mitch Marner. I actually thought his media was very comfortable and I don't know what to make of that because there is this conclusion that has immediately taken off that he's gone. That may be the case. Right. It may be the case that he's made up his mind he wants to leave or he feels he has to leave

And maybe there's a scenario where the leafs look at it and say we need we need change too and we'll get to all these conversations But i'm not nearly as convinced as I was Maybe a day or two ago that it's a foregone conclusion. He's out of here. Really? I'm not What are you talking about? Like honestly, what are you talking about? How many years have we said Mitch Marner's got to go or Tavares has got to go? I mean, it's not my opinion on if you should stay. I made it very clear I think they need to move and I think he needs to move. Honestly, there's no way in hell I'll quit. I'll quit. I'm not doing it. Get the papers ready. You cannot bring that team back as it is not even close

I would honestly explore everything all of them together. They are too similar We talked about this. Yeah, we started the show about about a four-year. Yes. They're just not winners They don't have that killer instinct and they can't elevate their play at the right times to get the job done Ryan Whitney brought up an outrageous stat the other day's things like since 2004 or five or something Ryan Whitney brought up an outrageous stat the other day things like since 2004 or five or something The Buffalo Sabres have won four playoff series the Maple Leafs have won two yes The Buffalo Sabres have missed the playoffs for 14 straight years aware of that

Yeah, that is crazy stuff, man. You cannot bring that group of players back Listen, I don't care if they have some kind of meeting of the minds and like now I was just kidding about going to free You can't do it. You cannot do it man. There's no way the tape from last year the year before the year before that We've been saying it for years. What makes you think the Leafs have the stomach all of a sudden when you go to a player? I just go for my own experience when I caught wind that I was going to be traded or that the whispers were out there People talking to me and warm up I was like get me the hell out of here when you approach a player to say we want you to waive your no movement Clause more than once that fractures the relationship. I don't know how you're gonna come back from that

That's from the player perspective like you don't think Mitch remembers that and that's why he's been so pissy about this stuff Of course But the reasoning the reason my understanding is the reason they were like we get this is our last Option was because they were trying to give him a contract forever, right? They were trying to sign him trying to sign he's like no not signing and okay So then from the team perspective you're like there's no way in hell. We're going back to the well in July Well, I'm just saying I'll believe it when I see it with these guys. That's what I'm saying It's not my opinion on what I think should happen. These are two different conversations

I'll give you my opinion on what I think should happen. These are two different conversations. I'll give you my opinion on what I think will happen, and you are what I what should happen. We can all do a roundtable on that. What I'm saying is the Leafs year after year after year have proven to not conclude anything until they actually show you that they have the stomach to do it. Believe it when you see it. Believe it when you see it. Because here's and here's another thing from Marner's perspective again I was I was I was impressed with his media whatever that's worth I don't know what it's worth what were you impressed about what I actually thought he spoke glowingly about his

experience about the city I think he shot down a lot of the stuff that people were trying to they're trying to poke at him like you know what about this and what about that how tough it is in your family and you basically said no like he didn't get into any of that exactly which I have an appreciation for. He didn't exactly what Mitch Marner does very well what his camp has done very well his agent has done very well they negotiate as well as anybody in the world they negotiate and Mitch there's a chance he's negotiating let's not not forget, six years ago, his camp had everyone believe, we're signing an offer

sheet July 1, you don't give them what he wants, we're out of here. Offer sheet season coming and that was bogus. Don't want to play in Switzerland. We'll go to play in Switzerland if we have to. I think there's a chance, I'm not predicting it's a lot, but there's a chance this is all calculated and it's more about poking and prodding the leaves and so you don't have the stomach to let me walk you don't have the stomach to fill up fill my 14 a hundred points I didn't expect this out of you wow here's listen

I've learned my lesson with the team you're your fate they they jet they don't have the stomach because John Tavares walked out of press today and said, oh yeah, I'm coming back. I just talked to Barube and Tree and I feel very good about coming back. Two days later, it's already announced from John, yeah, I'll be back next year. So where's the evaluation process? Well, there is. Let's go back a second here you're talking that's mariner mitch marter's best opportunity to maximize a contract is an eight-year deal maybe it's

sign and trade maybe it's something like that because is only a get seven years from somebody else and it'll be a a boatload of money we i don't i don't know that regardless how you feel about it is a play he's going to get a monotony money i don't think for a guy that's got that much money in the bank uh... i don't think that extra year on the other night i think about the light

i'd i'd agree with you on normal circumstances but when you look at it this is a this is his this could be his last contract do you look at where's a jibby gets eight years but it's a big big number massive number. An extra year you tag on another 13 or 14 onto that, like that's a big number. Huge money.

It's going to be a big number regardless. But I do believe that everything's on the table, from the Marner camp and from the Toronto Maple Leafs. The thing is though, I would step back and say, is Brad Tree Living gonna have autonomy to make all these decisions? Because- Well, Dana-Hann will make that call. That's where I'm going.

Is there's decisions to be made, not only with the roster construction, but who's making them. And I don't think, you know, you've got Keith Pelley that's taking over, you got, I believe Ed Rodger, like there's people above him and below him that have to be sorted out before you start to sort out the pecking order of everything.

That's where I think the next step is going to come, is not, hey, who's gone and who's not in the next two days. It's like, who's making the call? And who's going to run the organization moving forward? I don't think Brad Tree Living's going anywhere. I don't believe Craig Barube is. I think those guys are new enough and have a vision and understand, but it's more about who's driving the bus above them.

Yeah, well, and the Shanahan, like listen, Brendan Shanahan, this is his vision. Like the core, the core and being committed to these guys and believing at some point they would get beyond this round has been his doing. Like he has made the ultimate calls on all that. Well, he is, he's the same guy that came out last year and said we're seeing some tendencies year after year and guess what those are?

I would imagine it's the performances of the guys in critical games. And yet you saw it again. Yes. So I'm sure anyone that believes in this said that's enough of this. That is enough of this. Well and it's possible that's what maybe keeps him here is an understanding like if you're gonna stay as the president this has these guys have to go. But again I'm just I'm more skeptical of the the beast of MLSE and the money making and all that that is, again, we are hyper focused on a very, very specific goal here, which

is that next step into actually winning the thing. Right. Because, like, again, they won the division, they're into the second round, they lost in game seven of the second round. There's 20 teams in the league that would love that but is that so that's where you're saying is Division from a business standpoint successful season again Unfortunately, right it might be right. That's what I'm saying. So the fans can yell and scream I can yell and scream we can all yell and scream and say Well, shouldn't you be more folk like a, 100% hyper-focused on winning the Stanley

Cup? Right. That's an idealistic viewpoint. That's a fantasy, because that's not what these guys are doing. What they're doing is they're making money. Now you can sit there and say, you'll make the most money if you win. And absolutely that's accurate. That's always been the case.

But you know, they make the playoffs every single year. how many home games did they get this year seven it's a lot of money man huge a lot of money they just made believe square and that's like no one's gonna say that they just made a fortune the last month yeah so I don't know you're looking at it from not an emotional standpoint the business standpoint I'm saying what I think there's a chance the way they look at it. Could be wrong. Again, I hope I'm wrong. I hope the focus is something's got to change here. And I do think there's an element of the business that does have to be considered from that standpoint. Well, there's another part of the business. Because of how crazy the fans were the other

night and how crazy people are and they want a fresh start. But I think that that's kind of mandatory at some point. And other people have brought up, you want to talk about businesses, like yes this sucks, but people have chimed in who have said, well you can break this up and you can possibly be Buffalo or Detroit and then you're like, there's Buffalo and Detroit out there that haven't sniffed it for a long time. There's that out there. Well, how pissed off can you really be? But if that's your point, like what are

you even in this for? Well, I agree with you. And I mean what what and what I guess I'm getting to is I hope someone down there, whether it's Pelley, whether it's Edward Rogers, maybe it's Shanann if he's still here, you got to have the stomach to try to live in a world without these guys, like do something different here. And what also needs to be remembered because you do see this reaction, like, well, you can't replace Marner. Yes, you're not going to replace him.

You're also not trying to. The reason for change is because you're not trying to replace him. You're looking for a different result. You're looking for something different. You're looking for a different. And also, let's say Marner walks for nothing, Tavares walks for nothing. That just happens. This team's still going to the playoffs.

You have cap space. Both goalies, all your defensemen are signed, and Matthews, Nylander, and Nyser are still here. Like this isn't scorched earth. If Mitch Marner and Tavares leave, they're not Buffalo. No. Like that's not the way this is, and no one's suggesting scorched earth, reload, five-year plant. that's not

happening and i said the other day you can walk away from some players but you better get some damn good ones in here because mitch marner and john to bars are big reasons why they get to the playoffs every year you're also big reasons why they don't win that big game that's a conundrum i don't know what it is you them together they just it doesn't work and anybody that would want to bring them all back together that would be honestly the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard of in my entire life. I agree but I would have said that two years ago three years ago I mean not

that. They need different personalities in there that's it I'm sorry. Yes you do. I think you can do it with two of the four four of the four right now the you mean you can win with two of the four I think you can have success or relatively the same results or more with two of the four and two of them are under contract yeah Matthews and Nylander are here not going I going anywhere now what I'd like to see 88 play better? Yes. Would I'd like to see 34 play better? Yes. Would I like to see a healthy Knies? He was obviously banged up. Yeah, by game 71. Yeah, he couldn't contribute the way he had been contributing.

You're going to use that money if they decide. Now, keep in mind, Mitch Marner and John Tavares control a lot of the narrative here too. If decide to leave you use that money to spend it wisely to round out your team in a different way and it might end up being better just because addition by a subtraction I look at and we were talking about it this off-air Barkov and Reinhardt they're not killers they're great players superstars in my opinion, but they play a different way than Bennett does, than Marchand does, than Kichuk. So it doesn't mean that Matthews and Marner, they could play, or Matthews and Elander could

play a different way, but you have to have other guys play a different way. What is evident for me is four players kind of play the same way. And that trickles down and it's a lot tougher to insulate them. Absolutely. But you got to have the stomach to try it. That's the, and that's at the core of all this. How could you not, that's what I don't understand. I understand your comment, but how could you not have the stomach?

How could you have the stomach to take the chance of that happening yet again you I I don't have an answer for you other than that's the easy way out the easy way out is you do everything you just give Marner 14 whatever he wants to Varus and you bring him back and they finish with 105 points and then they play maybe Detroit in the first round and win that and then probably losing the second round and you say up well next year we learned and now Barube's been here for two That's the easy way it's an easy way Well, but they've been doing that for years when I think they knew the answer to all of this

This can't be surprising to a guy like Brendan Shanahan who's a hockey Savant and hockey lifer that these guys don't have when they're not far away if this team stayed together where somebody would say it's they're getting on The other side. Yeah, they're in all Side we got a freshen it up with some young guys you haven't even got past the second round bar once is is on the other side yes to be 35 in September yeah like I mean we'll get into okay cuz that that is an important point of this too is that when the dust settles you know these guys are leaving and everyone's looking at free agency which

very clear is they have to start finding, drafting and developing and bringing players into this team. Like all they, to my knowledge, all you got is Easton Cowan that might be available next year. Like who else is out there? You know, like you look at game seven, it was the core four, Knies, Riley and Wohl. Those are the guys who have been drafted

and brought into the system. Everyone else, free agency, trades. So if Marner and Tavares are gonna leave leave and others are going to leave, you better find some youth. You got to have some kids that are coming and I don't get the impression that they're there right now. All right, more on this throughout the afternoon. MJ coming up, CJ coming up, ConfirmerDeny coming up, Mark Giordano coming up, Overdrive continues, TSN 1050N on TSN2. All right, Overdrive continuesed by FanDuel. Bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score.

I want to point out we're up on YouTube Live on the TSN YouTube channel. So you can find us on TSN 2. You can find us on TSN Radio. Streaming. iHeartRadio app. TSN.ca. Home Smart Speaker. YouTube.

YouTube Live. We're everywhere, man. You can't avoid us. We are around, and you better believe it. So when we meet people abroad, are we allowed to say we're YouTube sensations? Yes, I think we can say that. Really? I think we've officially reached that point

where we can mention that we are YouTube content creators. Love it. Or what do those people say, like they are, they're content creators. That's always, that's just like a broad version of high post stuff. Yeah, I mean, there's always like weird ones, like, you know, I don't know, like some of the younger ones that stream from the bar

and all that. Oh yeah. Like they're. And they're making massive money. Like some of the streamer stuff, like these people are like massively popular, like millions and millions of people have watching them play a video game my son yeah myself i was just playing a video game tonight i'm gonna check that out and my son watches a guy play minecraft

and the guy narrates that's what we're doing is all this guy's great guys the best no one plays video games like that guy yeah uh... okay so what did we establish in the first segment that you're gonna quit if margaret of arson back both of them i i i was that established i i i i i i i just gotta say this they are fantastic players yes okay but i'm so tired of

you get a hundred points to get seventy goals or sixty nine goals to forty five goals for willy don't of our score thirty eight but i'm just tired of seeing that in the way they perform in these big games. It's like you just, you have to move away from that. And like I said, I don't know what person would ever look at that and say, yeah, we got to bring, you don't have to bring anybody back. You got to get some different players in there.

Well, I don't care who they are, but they better be good. They have to be good. And it's just got to be a different look. All of their personalities, like we talked about this they're too similar it's like I don't know like you look at that guy and I go to make David out in Edmonton he's got like he is an awful he's the most skilled player in the world but he seems like he's a stone-cold killer when it comes down to the brass taxes like he just he's got a look in his eye where he he

understands that he had to get to a different emotional level to do this stuff these guys don't have that they don't have it they're not winners man I'm sorry like that's just well in truth well and a couple of them are gonna stay and they have to prove that they can learn to do that that's the truth yeah here's the other thing too the one maybe X factor in all of this that will and should and could weigh in is Craig Barube. He went this is his first full year behind the curtain and seeing what this group is like. Now you were in the building the other night he looked his head looked like he was going to pop off when he was you know how insane that was Jamie. Do you know how insane that was in a game seven?

A lot of coaches would say I don't even speak at a game seven because I trust my players and I sat back I've heard coaches say this in different sports this was a game where you don't even have to address the team and there he was in the second period losing his mind on his players to wake up and get skating are you kidding me yeah the fact that that happened is so crazy. It's not even funny. And we haven't really seen that from him. A game seven where it's like your nuts are on the line and your coach loses it to wake up. He didn't yell in game five because that was the outlier. I would have I don't know what the odds were to lose 6-1 after the last home game

you'd lost 6-1 like the odds would have been that parlay would have paid millions because game 5 chief came out the next day and was extremely composed and said it's a tape burner which we all would have agreed it's just bad night that's where Willie goes bad night not and they redeem themselves in game six game six fantastic played tight Blocking shots doing everything didn't give up any chances. You know I got both goals on Bob were bad goals It was really you know a tight tight game, but in the end Game seven I would have bet money. That's an overtime game That's a one goal game. Maybe a two goal game with an empty net or something. It was gonna be a highly contested

Chess match it wasn't yeah because the Leafs now listen credit to the Panthers because they were Unbelievable and they deserve a lot of credit But the Leafs they couldn't match it. They weren't even close to matching it and you're right that Borube has now seen behind the curtain Now I think you got to take what he said today with a grain of salt he was asked you want Marner and Tavaros back and he said 100% he has to say that because they're his players and it's not his decision. Right. On tree living it's on Shanahan and the players are going to make the call and if they decide that they're bringing them back you can't have the coach saying I don't want them here like he you have to play that card.

So he has to say it. I think it's meaningless. I don't think it has any bearing on what the Leafs brass is going to be thinking or what the players are going to do. But this is also nine years in to this era, this Matthews, Marner, Nylander era, whatever they decide to do. It can't be labeled impatient because I've noticed that discussion coming up while this would be like what they've done with players in the past where you moved off them too quickly and they go somewhere else and

they have excess exactly it's nine years whatever happens it's not based on impatience it's not because they made some snap judgment this isn't trading Randy Carlisle when he's too young and hasn't develop or exactly exactly this isn't like not allowing players to grow and this idea that well look what cadry did when he left or look what hyman's been doing her castle or bozak the differences like the castle the team stunk

but so i would feel there's not so could do here to prove who he was they never made the playoffs still was a one here. He went and played as a three. And that's what's important is all these other guys, including Kadra, who we all love, that was McKinnon, Ranton and McCarr's team. Nas was fourth at best. Actually, Lannis-Gaugh was still playing. He was fifth.

He was the fifth guy. So if Marner leaves and is the fifth guy somewhere and wins, that doesn't prove anything. Doesn't prove anything. This market and the reaction to it all it will be proven that maybe something strange here or they made a made a uh... of misjudgment if margaret goes somewhere else is the man

and wins a cons might in a cop then everyone will say what happened i don't understand that's a different that's different because here is the man here it's you and matthews you the two best players you're the guys you're the leaders you get paid the most, blah blah blah. Yeah, if he goes somewhere and does it as the man, then you can circle back on the comment of this market and everyone doing the same thing. Absolutely, absolutely.

But if you go somewhere and you're the fourth or fifth guy and you're on the second line and you blend in, that doesn't count, man. That's not an indictment on Toronto's decision making. No, and keep in mind, he has the right to go somewhere else if he goes and is the man you know what what Toronto did is they committed to the two other men. Which they already have Matthews and Nylander are here and they're not going anywhere. And if Mitch Marner wants to stay and they work it out it would be the three of them. John Tavares like you say I'm not I don't believe at all. I do believe, I do

believe sometimes it works out for both, you know, situations. Mitch Marner might go and the grass might be greener for him personally with another organization. Yes, nine years is a long time. And you know what? I thought about it. He might go and have success, but he also might come back later in his career and play a year or two with the Leafs later on down the road Who knows like you never know what's going on? But the biggest thing right now is the decisions have to be made is this group good enough? to try and win a Stanley Cup next year and and

How is Brad tree-living going to roster construct this team? Well, that's the question. And we'll listen. We got a month and a half to figure that out in terms of who's available, what trades could be available, what they do. And like I said, prior to going to the last break, they don't have the luxury of a farm system that is like guys, lush with talent. Right. Like that, that is something that doesn't get brought up enough.

And I understand they've gone all in and they've traded and and all that's gonna cause issues on that end right but like they they did their heavy lifting with with Riley and the core core three guys that was nine years ago man like yeah well they got drafted 11 years ago and yes you have knives and yes you have wall and what was the backup who wouldn't have been playing if Stollers was healthy you got to find some younger talent that comes in on the cheap that can pop they can push people that can filter through that has that has to happen it's got to be a priority for them like they've got to find younger talent that can step in here where the hell you gonna find that man well you

got a drafted you got a drafted ideally but then they're four years away I get it but why was that excited and the the cop out always says, well, they trade all their picks. I get it. Or you trade somebody of value that either needs a change or you're looking to change the age of that. And again, there's guys under cost control, under value. Like Morgan Reilly controls his own destiny. Yeah. He may need a change of scenery, too. Like Morgan Riley controls his own destiny. He decided that.

He may need a change of scenery too. He had a tough year this year. Listen, we love Morgan. Yeah, it's a different scenario. But in the end, it all comes back to who, if Brad Tree Living has freedom to roster construct this team, what is his vision for it and there's gonna be

things where his hands are tied or it's like I can't control Mitch Marner coming in or not if that's up to him or you can control not signing him I understand that's that's in the control most control you're not offering you just by playing somewhere else regardless I as is again this is the fantasy couch GM you always want to get something for the asset. So maybe if he decides he wants to move on, well, hey, you know, I can get something for a sign and trade like they did with Matthew Kachuk. Very rarely happens, but did happen with Kachuk.

You're right. Now he had a year left, so it was different. You're right. I understand. Different scenarios, all of that. And he's Kachuk. Yes, I understand that. I know.

I'm just saying. That's a great name to bring up because these guys are so talented. It's just got to be something different, a different element. Well, here's, it's a great point. Bill Zito, it's Hubert O coming off 115 points. But the time to do that was two or three years ago. That ship has sailed. But I don't know if the ship is sailed it's just it's it's time now it is time now and you're right ship like it they're not a couple years and we've been saying it's part of the ship is yours man here's here's here's the the breakdown of the nine years of matthews

marner newlander there there's three stages to this uh... i think what we witnessed on sunday night with the reaction at the end of the game which got crazy i was there and it was dark in that building by the end but it was dark and you know i don't condone the educia throwing stuff on the ice especially when got when they're playing during the picture in play is just completely stupid and yet i i get why people are so disturbed and angered and and it really it

it started in the second chapter of this run because the the first three years was just brimming with optimism and hope and these kids that arrived and we're gonna be good soon they're gonna be great see a stepladder you could see it and even like Babcock was there and he had a different reputation and view at that point and he was a winner and Shanahan had pushed all the right buttons and everything was was just incredibly positive and then the next three

and the first three was washington boston in seven boston in seven right although like the watch that was there in game six against washington when they lost and it was standing ovations and everyone loved them and they're like this is a great i would chance through the building goldies go chance when they lost and game six of that there's a really really was amazing

and then boston in seven in eighteen boston in seven and nineteen like okay but good experience they're gonna get this they're gonna figure this out learned all of that the second three years is when everything changed that's when bad cock left that's when to borrow survived cadre left it became about contracts, they all got paid,

they all were threatening to hold out, some of them did, and then it went Columbus, Montreal, Nick Paul, Tampa. And that was the three years where people said, what the hell is going on here? Why are they getting paid like they've won cups? Why can't you hold these guys accountable? Why is it that Dubas and Keefe have to be here and it's not Lew and Babcock anymore? What happened? And then it became like it, it, there was this mood change in that three years because then you look at the last three in a vacuum, putting the history aside, trying to understand you can't and everyone has to consider it's been 60 years since a cup and all that. The last three have been second round, 69 goals by Matthews, second round. That in a three-year

nutshell without any history is actually a there's a lot of positivity and fun. Hey, you're like, you're like, hey, this is like, okay, second round, the Varsco is the OT winner in game six in Tampa. Matthews chasing 69 or 70 was the greatest individual season I've ever witnessed. I mean, it was an unbelievable feat. And then this year you get to game seven of the second round. That chapter, like you could sell that as,

you know what, actually there was some, you couldn't do it anymore because of the three years in between before it. You're tying the six, yeah, you're tying the six years in. So like that's the story, that's the arc in the storybook of the matthews morner era you guys that created some buzz with the second round second round 70 goal you're the same guys that lost the columbus yes bubble that totally tanked against the Montreal canadians right and the Nick Paul game and you guys that did that

yep and needed to win every every single negotiation and you know I actually can't even believe that there's people that are like just give them like there's people that are just carrying water for these guys online give them another chance shocking to read that like I don't know how many chance and they keep referring to like the OV scenario the Stevie why scenario where it took them a long time I'm sorry man I'm

not buying it I'm not buying it with these guys you're right it did take those guys a long time but we would have to go back into the history to see what changed around them that's the difference well ironically Shanahan was one of the changes but but the boy player you're right the point being is that wasn't a four or five pack of guys that Washington carried right through and just kept changing the guys around them. Like, you know, yes, Backstrom was there. I think Carlson. That's pretty much it. I think Holt be kind of in and out there, but it wasn't, you know, those guys like this. The problem is, is those guys, there's four guys,

center ice and right wingers in this top corner, a lot of money, and they're all kind of built the same way, and then the team's built around them. Like that's different. It's Carlson, it's Baxter and Ovi, and then they kept switching around him. Like I could see in the future, a portion of those guys winning here, not all of them.

That's the difference. Well, and that's the, and listen, it's not their fault that they won all those negotiations. It was on the team to either not give in or conclude that something had to change. But again, you know, it's easy retrospect, you know, retrospective analysis, hindsight 2020. But I do think Kadri going Hyman going those two in particular should have never happened it just never should have happened yet all it was was about the core for the core for them getting what they need they're

the guys everything else is irrelevant they're just it never it never should have come to a conclusion that Kadri was gonna have to go for a trade that it was just horrendous and Hyman walks for a trade that it was just horrendous and hyman walks for nothing like that those are two guys local guys love being leaves they they brought a different on a different way play differently and and it just it didn't happen now

the cadre one yes i get with the suspensions and we got a recall that cuz at the time he was taking he he deserved a lot of you know i know but i remember sitting on the panel with bob mckenzie after that game and he said that might be cadres last game if i understand what this organization is thinking because they're just not putting up with that i remember thinking how on earth i remember saying about my cure crazy for saying that there's just no way in

hell on a team that needs some grittin some guys are a little bit bit crazy How could that guy be possibly the one that goes out the door and he said you watch? I'm gonna go out the door and he was no way and he went out the door Yeah, and ultimately that that again was maybe the fatal flaw or sin is that it became about You know skill and composure and and they they completely blocked out the idea that you know craziness and passion and determination and all that yeah that can work yeah and as a result we stand here today all right Mike Johnson in 15 minutes confirm with deny coming up as well overdrive continues TSN 1050 and on

YouTube live all right Mike Johnson coming up, Confirm and Deny as well. So the Leafs were speaking earlier today, Craig Barube and the players. We don't know when Brad Treeliving is going to speak. We don't know if or when Brendan Shanahan will speak. If and when Keith Pelly will speak. We haven't really heard that yet, which has some people wondering, is there going to be movement? Yeah, I mean, those guys have to speak at some point.

Tree Living's gotta speak. The GM has to talk at the end of the year. Usually happens tomorrow, like it's the day after. Yeah, they let the players and coach do their thing and then the players get out of here and then they go a day or two and then they have the GM speak. And again, Shanahan's generally up there

and we'll see if he is or not. I think it's Thursday. Yeah. That's what I would think by Thursday we'll have another. You got another presser? Well Struddy's favorite, the press conferences. I think I've been throwing jabs at you. I haven't heard from Strud but he's prepping for the game, right? Everyone in Edmonton is so angry about the travel from Edmonton to Dallas and how tough

it is and they get a one o'clock game on Sunday and that's a weird you would think it is very war. Why wouldn't you have eight o'clock Eastern? I don't know either. But you're in the finals and just relax out there. Well, I got through the last series in five. You always nitpick on things. You're right. But it just just relax.

Isn't that better for viewing pleasure? I don't understand why either. Yeah, no, I hear you. I get it at three o'clock out here. That's the game. Just relax. In the A, isn't that better for viewing pleasure? I don't understand why it is. As a fan either? Yeah, no, I hear you. I get it. Like Sunday at 3 o'clock out here, that's the game. So what, the series goes Wednesday, Sunday? Wednesday, Friday, Sunday.

Wednesday, Friday in Dallas. Oh, okay. Sunday, Tuesday in Edmonton, but Sunday's a one o'clock game. One o'clock local start. Yeah, it's a weird start. Weird afternoon game. It's weird. Yeah.

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