OverDrive - OverDrive - May 20, 2025 - Hour 3

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

Join Bryan Hayes, Jeff O'Neill and Jamie McLennan for Hour 3 on OverDrive! TSN Hockey Insider Chris Johnston joins to discuss the Maple Leafs' lack of winning identity, Mitch Marner and John Tavares' future and Brendan Shanahan's failed vision. Longtime NHL Defenseman Mark Giordano joins to discuss the Maple Leafs' series defeat to the Panthers, the trajectory of the lineup and how a team moves forward from the defeat and Bryan hands out his FanDuel Best Bets.

Are you age 16 to 30 and ready to make a real impact? The Youth Thrive program, funded by Canada Service Corps and delivered by the Career Foundation, is your chance to develop leadership skills, connect with mentors, and gain real world experience, all while giving back to your community. Best of all, it's a no-cost program, available across Ontario, Nova Scotia, Alberta, and BC. Thoughts are limited, so register now at careerfoundation.com. That's careerfoundation.com.

Join today and be part of something amazing. Let go from your job without a severance package? You need employmentlawyer.ca. Your employer is legally required to give you as much as 24 months' pay when you lose your job. Call your Sam Firou and get what you're owed. Employmentlawyer.ca. Once pay when you lose your job, call your Sam Firo and get what you're owed. EmploymentLawyer.ca. Final Hour Overdrive continues powered by Fanduo bringing you everything from the opening

line of the final score. Brian Hazy, O'Doug, Jeff O'Neill, Jamie Noodles, McClennan. Got a big hour, Mark Chirdana later in the hour. CJ will join us here in a moment. Our TSN Hockey Insider, our best butts later in the hour. We'll get to something to chew on with cj in just a moment and just for all the listeners viewers everybody in the media very few no one's a leaf and they're all just impartial they don't care who wins but it's better for hockey and it's better for their own everybody wants to see the maple leafs win like for

everyone's like all the media is this this and that everybody wants it's better for everyone Everyone gets more clicks. Everyone reads more articles watches on TV. It's better for everyone if they win. Well, it's Exactly. It's more entertaining. It's fresh. It's you're right. This is a big market, but every local marketo. I'm in all of them They're the beat writers. They they are partial to the home team. They watch them every day. So if I go to Tampa, those writers, they sway Tampa. If I go to Florida, they sway Florida. I go to Edmonton, those guys are biased towards the Oilers. Like it's just here, it's bigger and it's loud. And that's what it is. Montreal, Montreal in two languages. Every single market and here it is bigger. in my my stance has been the same I

think we all collectively agree like the they the players they play the game and then you react it doesn't matter you hear a lot so you build it up like they're gonna win every year it's like it's irrelevant what people predict or project or whatever the players they play the games and you react and when they play well and they win it's going to be Very complimentary. It's going to be very positive analysis when they play poorly and lose. It's going to be the opposite That's the way it goes my stance. I have a very very different viewpoint than possibly both of you guys. I Look at it with from from the fans perspective, perspective right I want them to win for the fans That's that's why I want them to win

I want them to win so my dad who's been going to games his whole life Can go down there and see them win a Stanley Cup. I want them So my buddy Jim this morning 73 is like, I don't know if they're gonna do it man He's and he's talking about him in his life. I'm 73. That's What I want to happen right? Like I don't have personal relationships with any of these players I have nothing against any of them. We don't operate in the shadows on this show We don't talk about their personal lives or take jabs that are personal at any of these guys what we see on the ice Exactly. That's the reality if you play great your tires get pumped if you play poorly

You're gonna get chewed on this show, you go play that's the way it goes yeah but i want to see them win not so that you know matthew's get that'd be great good for them like i that'd be awesome for those guys and mlsc and all that good for you all of you but i want it for the fans and the people of toronto who deserve it and have paid you know they've paid their dues for a long time and that's just the reality and they're not alone people in Vancouver put their hands up saying hey don't forget about us yeah we see you right we see you in Buffalo we see yes ever there's a lot of different fan bases and the reality is the Leafs again over the last three years they've been in the second round twice and like I said that middle year Matthews chasing 70 was as electric and magical as you can experience for an individual player in a season.

The last three years, I'd say there's 20, maybe 25 teams in the league that would do anything for the last three years that the Leafs had. Now, we know the teams that wouldn't accept that. Vegas wouldn't, Tampa wouldn't, Florida wouldn't, probably Colorado, Edmonton't you know there there's there's six or seven you can look at and say that wouldn't be good enough Boston still wouldn't because of what they are what they've represented but there's 20 to 25 that would do anything sure for the last three years that the Leafs had yeah the reason why the last three years don't land is because of what happened the previous three years which is what we discussed Columbus Montreal Tampa the Nick Paul game all the

contracts the the players that left the people that came and went and everything it soured people well and soured a lot of people and I just my biggest and we won't we don't have the answer because their last two home games were atrocious. Like I say, if they would have lost Sunday night 2-1 in double overtime, it's sad, it's awful, all of that, what we talked about. But we would talk about, we might have a different view on certain players as to man, they left everything out there bob made of saving overtime or reinhardt made a great play all of that type of stuff

that wasn't the case in their own building all the got ran out of their own building twice white and i think that's what comes across to the fan base right or wrong and you'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt that it's wrong but when you're a fan and you go down to the building and watch that and you watch just how Monotone they are after the game they give the impression that it doesn't mean that much to them You know what I mean? That's what pisses fans off where they see them and they play like that they watch William Nylander

They watch the performances and then after it's like execution, we got to learn from this and next year we'll go get them. It gives the impression that it just like McDavid when people watch McDavid and Edmonton when they pulled the curtain back and saw him freak out last night or last year, they were like that guy cares so much and this means everything to him. And these guys do not give that impression. They don't they make it look like it's too easy to turn the page and say well go get them next year that's what it that's what it comes off as here's Chris Johnston our Tia's and hockey insider CJ you're around the team a lot around the

room in the room you're down there today what you just heard from oh where do you stand on that and what might you add to that? Well, the good news about today is there was less talk about lessons learned. So it did feel different in that regard. You know, I thought there was some emotion after the game. Tavares was emotional after the game, but I think these guys are shell shocked a little bit too. And honestly,

this is probably why we feel like we're on a repeat track. It's like this timeline, we end up talking about the same thing every year, but it feels like that's, it's aiming or we just didn't to want to see some change. And I realize all the complications with that, it's easy to throw it out as an idea right now. And it's another thing to live it and make your team better. But like, I feel like these guys don't have all the answers all the time. And, and you'll have to play so well in game six. I think that's the hardest part for me to get my mind around. So I'm going to do those two losses with what you saw in game six and how little

they gave up and how structured they were and patient they were in the game. And, and then to get blown out the way they did. I mean that's, it's difficult. I don't know what you want. I don't know what, I guess what do you want to hear in that point? You just want to hear someone angry? Like what do you want to hear?

I don't know if there's anything left to say when you lose 6-1 on home ice in game seven and people are throwing jerseys on the ice and beers and everything and you know, your year's over. I don't know. Nathan McKinnon one year said, I haven't won squat in nine years and it's got to change and it's got to get better. Ultimately when you do get smoked like that there's nothing that you can really say CJ. But the way it comes off is it just didn't matter that much.

Like William Nylander came out today and he goes, that was a crappy game, that's it. And like, how is a fan supposed to react to that? Like I don't know. Like when you just toss out, I was a crappy game. When the captain says we had too many passengers, does that mean it meant the world to them? Like did you go down like dying to win that game when your captain says there was too many passengers? Like not everyone

was on the same page. The other team was hungrier than us. The other team's been to two straight finals. Why were they hungrier? Like those are the things that I'm talking about. Right. And that's, I mean, that's where it feels like it's between the ears, honestly. I mean, you know, look, they, they need, I think they need, if we're doing this again next year, when it comes playoff time, they need a I think they need, if we're doing this again next year when it comes playoff time, they need a team that can plan the inside of the ice more, more dogs I guess seems to be the word that's going around these days. But they need maybe a little bit more of a fight in the sort of overall style of play.

Obviously not every player in your lineup is built in that certain way. I mean, you want different elements in your lineup, but you know, I don't have any, like I feel like I don't have answers for their lack of answers, I guess is probably the best way to put it. And I don't believe they don't care though. I mean, that's, that's, I would draw a line there. I'm not necessarily saying that's what you're, you're getting at, oh, but you're, you're almost talking about the disconnect between what people feel and what the players feel I think everyone feels a lot of disappointment around the Leafs quite honestly to take sort of put themselves in position I

mean they you know tons of respect obviously for the Florida Panthers they may win another cup this year but the Leafs I think they let them off the hook in that series myself well here's the thing with the way game three went and all that stuff you know well sorry to interrupt CJ but I just the one thing I disagree with and it's not with you but it's what came out of them for them saying it's between the ears I disagree with that it's you just said well guys who are willing to to do whatever it takes I just don't like Mitch Marner wasn't gonna run anybody through the boards William Nylander

wasn't going like to me they've got four players that play the same way and and all four of those guys don't have that that the nature that it you don't have the killer instinct like DNA that's the big thing that's not a mental thing no I don't know where we got to find that killer instinct and we think our players have that we don't have to go out and find it well they don't yeah nine years like it's not gonna change that's my but my point like I understand there's a met you know a mental block from showing up potentially and in big games I think that's what they're pointing to and I think that's what you're saying CJ. But in the end, I look at loose

puck battles. I look at determination on 50-50 battles. I look at taking a chunk of your opponent. I didn't witness that from the top players. I witnessed they've got skill, they've got lots of good things that they can bring to the table but it was the surrounding cast that needed to do it because florida had it that third line took a piece of anybody that day that they could uh... you know i

it again it's not bark often reinhardt but it certainly was bennett it was marsh and it was good chalk it was you know right down the lineup where i'm looking at that Leafs lineup and it's like, okay, Max Domey, dumb penalty again. Show me how much you care. It's a dumb penalty and Matthew Kachak draws you into it.

It's not about the show, it's about actually executing it. And they didn't do it, and I don't think that's between the ears, I just don't think that particular group is capable of doing it when the chips are down. And that's, it was evident, games five and seven. Right. This is the ultimate what if era of Leaps hockey, because I feel like you can do this. But I mean, even their lower down the lineup guys, like Scott Lawton and Steven Lorenz had breakaways in the first period.

By no means am I hanging the lots on those players, but you just wonder like what if they one of those ends up in the net or heaven forbid even both of them maybe like it's a crazy game this sport and and you know I believe should to me they just overdue for the change at the top of the roster and and it's being brought to them this time around versus them initiating it you know it seems but they you can only watch so many of these games go the same way and we have for years and years and years. It's hard to draw new conclusions from any of it other than they got to change something up there.

Yeah. What about all the way up at the top? What is your read on Brendan Shanahan and what's going to happen with the Leafs brass the rest of the week? Well, obviously when you got a president 11 years in and the customers are as angry as they are and the guy doesn't have a contract beyond the season you know it doesn't line up very well for Brennan Shanahan but you know it's a big decision for Keith Pelley to make in terms of just what the structure is

going to look like going forward. I mean I don't know how it's going to go down just yet and I think they're still working through that themselves. But, you know, clearly I don't think it would be a surprise if they decided to move in a different direction away from Shanahan. You know, I think what the Leafs need to get right in their front office is maybe doing some streamlining. You know, it's a big front office, might be the biggest in the league in terms of just the sheer number of people that work there. Some of it's a bit of a Frankenstein front office left over with people from the Dubus era and obviously some additions that have happened since Brad Trilliving took over two years ago. And so, you know, I think when the dust settles here, whether it's a week or so or a couple days, I think you're going

to see some people lose their jobs and, you know, ultimately try to get to the most functional version of the decision-making tree they can because no pun intended by calling it the tree. But I mean, that's where the change has to happen. That's where the plan for this off season happens. That's where the what's next really goes down in terms of if this team can come back better and find a way to get the job done next year. With Chris Johnston, what is your read on this Austin Matthews injury scenario where he will not for the second straight year will not reveal what happened,

scenario where he will not for the second straight year will not reveal what happened you know was somewhat taken aback by the idea that someone asked him why he won't reveal and he just pushed back immediately and said you know because I don't have to why do you think he's going down this road when so many players in the league kind of take it almost as like a an honor to reveal what they play through You know, I don't I don't know exactly what's going through his mind there I mean take two other examples today chris chris tana i've missed some time in march He mentioned the very very specific nature of his injury. I'm not going to botch what it was

But it's something to do with his sternum. Um, you know, even Anthony Stoller just came out and said Yeah, I had a concussion in the first round. Matthew Nye, that should be noted, didn't want to get into what hampered him, the injury he suffered in game six. So I guess there's a matter of personal preference there. As for Matthew's and the season, I think if you're going to second guess anything or if there's a lesson to be learned from it is you probably shouldn't have started the year playing after he got injured in training camp. I think that's probably, you know, he was maybe pushing through at that

point in time. He'd just been named captain, you know, didn't, didn't want to start that tenure. I get sitting out games, but you know, he, it was something that he fought all year long and I still don't know exactly what the injury is. So I don't want to act like I'm secretly hiding it here and trying to be evasive. I don't know the nature of it. I do think that at times though this season he felt very good, including in March and into the playoffs. And then, you know, we saw him miss I think two times even just in that playoff run where

he had to sit out skates in days where normally he'd be on the ice so uh... you know obviously it's something he's got to dial in but when we don't have the full picture of what it might be it's hard to hard to get in on the details of what what's going on there uh... all right so the you know the elephant in the room is is Marner and Tavares in particular uh... what's your read on how these two play out? Mitch

Marner, John Tavares over the next six weeks. You know Tavares is probably the easier read. He's made it abundantly clear really every minute he's been a Maple Leaf that he doesn't want to play anywhere else and every chance he's had even coming off the season he had in the regular season you know I I don't get the sense he's looking to use his leverage. You know, I believe his side will work with the leaps to find the deal that makes sense. And so, you know, and I believe the leaps do have interest in keeping. I'm assuming that number is, is okay.

So, you know, usually when you have two sides in that, that mind frame hanging into a negotiation and it's probably going to end up well. And so and so you know I think it does make sense to keep Tavares around. Why? Well I'll tell you why because he's still a pretty good player and his cap hit is gonna be cut in half or more so you know I think that that he's transitioning to a different part of his career he wants to be here and if he's willing to sign for something that is below market value or in that range, then why would you move on for him? If you walk him out the door, I mean, the downside of this summer, the upside is everybody

in the league gets cap space. The downside is everyone's going to be bidding players' numbers up. I think you're going to see contracts players numbers up i think i think you're gonna see contract explode with the next round of free agents i just don't my pushback on that cj is his performance in the last three games where he barely touched the park and didn't make a play is it going to be that much more easy to take next year because he's making half the money

i think if you're reasonable worries playing in a lineup at that time it is to mean that if he could be a third liner by that stage. And I mean, where else are you going to get a center? I mean, Sam Bennett is the free agent. Like, what's he going to cost? I don't know, man. All I know from playing in the league is a guy that was the captain and who's been a superstar basically his whole career, he just comes back into the line or in the locker room and he's still like a powerful

personality in there and we talked about their their disposition and how they all are and they're similar they've got to bring different personalities into that locker room end of story yeah well I would agree with that although I think what you're what you're saying about transitioning would be like the Spezza, Marlowe, Thornton role. Jamie, Ben. Yeah, but even, yeah, Ben, I guess, but Ben is still working. But my point is like those guys went somewhere else to do that.

Right. You know, like if you're transitioning into I'm a veteran and I've done it all, I've seen it all, I think what O says rings true. It doesn't matter what his cap hit is, he's still John Tavares. He's still, I don't know. He's still going to be wanting to be on the first power play unit and I want my cookies and I want this and I want, I don't know. Yeah, it's tough.

This is what makes it complicated. I guess we won't know until what CJ you're saying what's the alternative who's if you're gonna spend what is called five million i don't know what he would make who's making five million to be your either third line center or you know your seven eight player

that's really what we're talking about because who's out there that could play that role? I mean, it's not we don't know maybe Matt. I'm not saying is the only other obvious one But isn't he essentially Jon Tavares, but maybe not even quite as good. Well, he might be a different player though I think that's what people are people are what we're talking about is just sometimes different is better because We we have a sample size and a large sample size of what they've had right now. So you're right, Matt Dushain is a different player. Now I would argue Dushain's a better player in certain things than Tavares and others.

Like Tavares is, I mean they're pretty damn close on draws. Both of them are elite, you know, centermen as far as draws. But I think Dushain's a better skater than him right now. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's been his whole career. You know, so just in the end, CJ, I think what you're saying is if you can bring back somebody or bring in somebody who's different, who might compliment the team in a different way, that's what you might be looking to do just because it's a different look.

Well, I mean, I just think you need someone to score goals. I mean, he's got what, 30 goals each in the last three years anyway, tomorrow. So I mean, I just think you need someone to score goals. I mean, he's got what 30 goals each to the last three years anyway tomorrow. So I mean, yeah, I got this interesting. I thought this was going to be the easy. I thought this was going to be the easy call. I mean, the Marner one's a little different, but yeah, a lot. Let's get to Marner here. Let's touch on.

Tell us, I guess from Marner's perspective, like do you think the door is completely closed, that he just doesn't wanna be here anymore? Do you buy that he hasn't put time and thought into his future? The biggest question for me is can the Leafs do anything to crack that door open? You know, that, I think it's mostly closed if not entirely closed. You know, I think certainly Mitch mostly closed if not entirely closed.

You know, I think certainly Mitch is of a mind that, you know, he waited this out. He played, look, some guys are afraid to play out a contract season because of things that can go wrong. Their performance injuries, whatever, you know, he did take some risk in a sense by not signing an extension at his best ever regular season, 102 points as an NHL player and and so you know I think that he's you know of the mind that this could be a good time to look elsewhere see what the markets out there for I'm very lucrative all those things so I think he has one foot out the

door what I don't know and what I think will be will get clarity on in the coming weeks is whether anything can be said or done and what I think we'll get clarity on in the coming weeks is whether anything can be said or done. Whether the Leafs even want to do that, I'm not even sure of that at this point, but can anything be said to make him want to stay? Does he have a second thought? Does the Duff settle in the season? That's the unknown for me, but as we sit here now, he didn't want to find an extension during

the year. The management approached him before the deadline about moving him and obviously didn't move on. But none of this suggests that they're going to sign an extension with this player. And I think he's going to become one of the bigger phrase in the last five, six years on July 1st and sign elsewhere. That's where it's all pointing. Yeah.

Well, I mean, listen, that'll be as massive of a change as you can get outside of Matthews. It will. It will be. And then it's what you do if you doesn't sign with that cap space to make your team better or different. That's the biggest thing. It may not make you better in certain, on the right wing area, but it's going to make you different with that money that you are you gonna use yeah you got your goal is locked up your defenseman locked up right like yeah let's work with really rough numbers if you remove the 11 million that each Tavares and Marner make this year you're at 22 million let's say you pay to our six that's maybe a bit

high for OO doesn't want them there at all let Let's say you pay nine, seven just for fun. So you're at 13 million. So that still leaves nine million dollars to essentially use on a couple players. I mean it's not awful. You're not getting one player, I should be clear, off top that replaces Mitch Marner. Like that's just not happening. But maybe you can add two players that do other things that can play top nine anyway

and use that cap space to do it. I mean, I think that's really what the Leafs are probably gonna be faced with when push comes to shove this summer. All right, CJ, we'll get you out of here with our question of the day. Something to chew on brought to you by Boston Pizza, Canada's favorite sports bar this playoff season.

Boston Pizza is planning the parade and has a new all-star playoff menu for you to enjoy for pizza pints and puck drops is it your local Boston Pizza today if this is the end of the Shanahan era was the Shanna plan a success or a failure you got to go failure I got to go failure. I got to go failure. Um, lots of good things happen, but that plan was designed to bring us to only cop to Toronto and they didn't get closer than nine wins away. So I still, I don't see how that's anything, but a failure, even though I will acknowledge is not saying every, there's a lot of good times here the last 11 years too.

Yeah. But the reason, if they want a cup, the Shanna plan would rain on for much longer. Oh, of course. I mean, it would be the most glorified plan in the history of the city. But I mean, that also puts it into perspective. Like we're talking about them needing nine more wins.

Yeah, the win would have put them halfway there. And that's kind of what Marshan was talking about the other day And even he's like this is the second round guys Yeah, like you think this is pressure wait till you get to the cup final and you're playing game seven But those guys were like that's kind of tongue-in-cheek going like I'm having to talk about this. Yeah Well, that was something I noticed the other night and I tweeted that out Well, that was something I noticed the other night and I tweeted that out

Like when the buzzer went the Panthers they reacted like they had just finished game 12 of the regular season Yeah, like if you guys went over to buy a good job up like if it wasn't for the line They had to do the handshake. They would have just like we'll just yeah See you later like we're on our way to Carolina the birds birds starting to and you know, they packed for yes Of course they packed for Carolina. And, but it was more because of the way the game, they knew by the second intermission, this game's over, and certainly by halfway through the third. Yeah.

And I know people say, well, that's what winner's doing. I get it. And I appreciate that. But I was like, it's game seven and there was no, nothing like no celebrate, no screaming those really nothing it was just like a a bob good stuff man all right let's go carolina ronnie crazy man

i think i think that you'd be cut from online today we were close to being close to that about some that up ready to make they're almost there to being almost there i don't know man well i don't know a way We're still a long way away in the business of trying to win a Stanley Cup. Yep that hasn't been touched on a lot like second round. Yeah that's it. Half not even halfway there. That's the

truth man it's just getting going like these guys another month to go. Yeah a lot more games. All right CJ good stuff pal we'll do it again soon thank you for this. All right talk to you soon. There a Chris Johnston joining us and as we know it's happened again every year It's the same old depressing story for Leaf fans. That's why TSN 1050 wants to give you a leaf of absence We're sending you and three of your equally miserable buddies to Cobble Beach for a rejuvenating two-night retreat in a private cottage With three rounds of award-winning golf. All you have to do is text retreat along with your name and city to 105050. So text the word retreat along with your name and city to 105050 and vent about your heartbreaking experiences as a Leaf fan and next

Monday on First Up we will be calling one defeated fan with some much needed relief. I like that. Cobble's a great place. Yeah. Great place. Sounds like it. Oh it's outstanding spot. Alright, Gio coming up. Best Bets Later in the Hour. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on YouTube Live. Alright, Best Bets Later in the Hour powered by FanD fan duel we got the final four teams man it was tough for the Leafs on Sunday tough for Winnipeg shout out to Mark Scheifle and his family of course his dad passing away and heartbreaking news and then the idea that that Mark plays he stays in Dallas and of course he scores like left the building and went back to the hotel like just so

tough man yeah the whole organization did a great job rallying around him my heart went out to him like this is a personal thing even the game aside but he was having a he was having a game too he scores the goal it was like not a storybook but it's like didn't Brett Favre play when his father passed yeah Monday Night Football and all that and Schafer was having a game and then that there was zero penalties and then they call that well I thought it should have been a penalty shot but either way they had to make that call and I was sick to my stomach. And I was happy for Dallas, obviously. But I was sick to my stomach that it was on that Shifely penalty. And watching Adam Lowry afterwards in tears, like he's an unbelievable leader, unbelievable person, teammate.

He goes and gets Shifely from the penalty box. He says on the podium, like, we wanted to kill it off so badly for him and we failed him like that was that was just raw emotion yeah that was that was uh it was wild scene like awful to and again now you know trifling us to he flew back immediately i believe tom galley already got him that's what was i think being reporter which is an incredible gesture as well. So yeah, we've got Dallas Edmonton, and we've got Florida Carolina. Florida Carolina, starting tonight. Here's our boy Mark Chirdano.

How you doing, Gio? Guys, how's it going? Good. Gio, you're the perfect guy to ask and have on today because I'd like to ask you, just out of the game, and you were in that dressing room after what you witnessed watching like how is how would you assess it because the assessment hasn't been great from us because it was a tough watch but how do you assess what you watched on Sunday night yeah so

obviously oh man obviously game five was was just a really bad game. And the boys took a lot of heat, a lot of heat and then went to Florida. And after game six, it was like, okay, that's the hurdle they had to get over. And that's how I felt about it. I thought they were going to come out with a really strong game. But I think for me, what shocked me the most was the start was the 24 attempts to nothing in the first 10 minutes. I thought they looked really tight, really tentative. And then I did think, oh, like I did think the last 10 minutes of the first, like you get two breakaways, you get some

chances, you get some life. And I honestly, going into the second period, I didn't see it coming. I thought they were going to take over a little bit. I thought, okay, now they're like, we stayed in this game. We finally got through a little hurdle here, a little hurdle there. But I really just felt like when Jones scored that goal and then they scored one right after, it was like, oh no, it's happening again. It felt like that's how the mindset of the team was, is like, it's really going to happen again. And it's unfortunate.

I mean, it ended up six one, but I'm just like, man, if they could have got a breakaway goal or, you know, they didn't get scored on twice in a row, but it just, it just steamrolled and snowballed. And it was like, it just felt like it was like, Oh no, it's going to happen again. And they couldn't stop like Florida was super aggressive, like Seth Jones, I think gets lost in all of this. He had a game of his life.

Like he was all over it, scored the goal. He scored another one that got this allowed. He had a, I think a key assist on one of them. Like he was just all over it. But yeah, it just caught me off guard that it was like, you know The first the first ten minutes of the game caught me off guard for sure so basically what you're saying is they were in it and then they ultimately got crushed and caved in and It wasn't even close. So when you talk about heat after game five and and obviously heat after game seven would

you say any of that criticism would be unfair or taken too far or are people just nuts oh no i think i think the way they lost the criticism is not unfair i mean the guys know that deep down everyone knows it it's you know it's the messages in the media you're going to protect yourself and your teammates, but guys, no. It's just at the end of the day, you've just got to be like, listen, we screwed that one and it is what it is.

You know the criticisms coming now, I think, for all the players. It was just one of those moments where it was like they was like caught They were just caught saying oh man here we go again And it just snowballed and snowball and it got worse and worse is game five was bad and that was right up there, too but I Mean the guys know what's coming from the media the guys know what's coming from the fans And I just think I think you know a lot of people get frustrated with their their responses in the media But they're just trying to protect themselves and each other at the end of the day, right? Yeah, Gio, I'm curious, if you ever were in a scenario in your career where you reflected on what was going on during an intermission, I'm guessing every intermission is kind of similar, guys have their routines, right?

Some guys take everything off, some guys stay in their equipment some guys go and get treatment some guys tape their stick whatever they do but like would you would you ever be in a scenario where you'd look back and think like what happened in that first intermission like how did how did they escape feel like okay it's all good and then play 20 minutes where they just get caved in and it's over like at any point in your career do you did you have any of those kind of reflecting moments where you're like, what happened in the room in between periods? Yeah, like usually what would have been going on in there where they would have

been like, Hey boys, like we, we have not been at our best. Let's go out and get going, get our feet moving, get our bodies going. That's all the things, all the, all those things would have been said, like, let's get going. We got lucky to get out of that period, zero, zero, whatever you want to call it. But what happened was Florida came out even more aggressive. It seemed like, like Seth Jones is up, up in the play on that two on one. He's playing forward basically there. Florida is just pressing, pressing and they scored. And when they scored, I just, it wasn't even the first goal. It was the second one for me where they've been bang bang and it was just like

You could see the guys. I think the state of their mind went from we're in this game. We're still tight stick with it to oh no We're gonna lose again. Like we're gonna we're not gonna get through this again And and I think it just snowballed from that point on. So at what point, you're watching it, you obviously know that group, at what point could anything have been done? In an alternate universe, after that second goal or even the third, like, always talking about in the four o'clock hour it's rare that uh... ahead coach has to have a meltdown on the bench in a game seven like you know it's happened for why i i mean yeah we'd have

to look back on tapes but i have and you could see the frustration with chief because he was yelling at the bench mitch marner's yelling at the bench like in an alternate universe is there something that could have been said or done on the bench or maybe a play that you would have liked to see that could have stopped the bleeding or maybe jarred the momentum? Yeah, I'll be honest with you, Nuno, the thing that I've been thinking about, like watching that series unfold, I thought Toronto obviously was really good at the start of this series.

But I think Florida turned into more aggressive than usual down the walls. And the one thing I kept saying was how many times did the puck get stuffed on the wall and turned over? Or the D-man down in Florida was pinching the winger off and he didn't even have time to make a play. Like I was thinking though, one adjustment maybe I would have been trying to preach is let's get some like high flips through the middle or you got to make the play through the middle and try and hold their D in between the dots.

Their D were up in the play all the time in the neutral zone. They're stepping up outside of the dots and cutting those passes up, those direct passes. Like, I would have been either high off the glass and get it behind their D somehow or like high flips, high flips. But I mean, it's easy to see now looking back. So going into game seven, the Leafs would have been like, okay, game five, the coaching staff, the players would been like, gave game five was a one-off. We came back, got back to our game in game six. We played well. We shut them out. We, we didn't give them much.

We had a great start. Like they would have been like game five was a one-off. Okay. The series has been tight either way. Now here we go. We're going to get them again in game seven. We're going to play the exact same way and get them. And what happened was Florida just, in my opinion, played a

great game and once they got to the, again, I'll keep saying it, once they got those couple goals and the Leafs are behind, it's not like Florida said, okay, we're going to lay off and start playing defense here. They went, they went almost the other way and play more aggressive and before you know it, it was, it was game over pretty quick, right? Absolutely. With Mark Giordano. Um, Gio, you would have done these locker cleanouts, you know, a lot every year of your career. And by the time you got to Toronto, you're a veteran guy. You know, you would have spoken, you did speak with the media, but I'm curious when you were, you know, when you're the captain in Calgary, when you're winning in Norris, when you're the

man in Calgary, and you know, okay, the season's over, I'm walking into this media presser. How did you prepare? Oh, they're the worst. Yeah, they're the worst. Yeah, they're the worst. Yeah, I mean, you know, you just feel like you're walking in there and you're thinking about, you know, what am I, how am I going to say all the right things and show appreciation and show that you're devastated and all that without coming across as, I don't know how to say it, but yeah, you're just going, those days are the worst. You really don't have, like in Calgary, I remember the one year we finished first in the conference and we lost in five games to Colorado.

And it was like, we all came in the room and like, you almost can't even look each other in the face because you feel so like you let your buddies down. You let each other down so much. So I can imagine what the guys are feeling. Yeah, I've been through it a lot in my career too. Unfortunately, like, it's a brutal day when you come in. They had a great year. They had the formula they thought that was going to lead them to the next level.

It sucks for these guys because I really do believe for a lot of this season it was the right formula. They were playing different hockey. They were playing more defensive. Now the way they lost in game seven, being a lopsided game 6-1 it's gonna it's gonna come down on them and they know that they know what's coming everyone knows what's coming but it doesn't change the fact that you walk in there and it's a brutal day with Mark Giordano so we got it you know there's a couple of big UFAs coming up

obviously we know Marner Tavares when you were in their situation when your contract was up you know how would how would you play out you know the next two weeks like if you were in their role and you know you're trying to determine what your future is gonna be you're trying to figure out how the team feels maybe what could be available to you on July 1st like what is the process that you would go through if you were a free agent? Yeah, well the thing is, first you have to decide whether you want to stay, right? Like you talk to your family and you feel the fits right for you, the

situation's right for you, but the biggest thing for me too, whenever I see high-end players like Johnny and Mitch get the free agency, you know that there's a lot of people pushing the, I don't know if the agents are pushing or other people like family members or friends and all people around you, like you've already played your last game of the season. So either way, it's not changing. Like it's not changing your contract when July 1st comes along. So a lot of guys will say, I just want to see what's out there, right? Either way.

And I never really got to this point in my career. I was always a guy who I liked having the stability and signing and having a contract in place before I got the free agency. But yeah, for sure, it's gonna be hard on the Leafs because they're two quality players who a lot of teams are gonna want. And we'll see, you gotta have both the want from the guy to come back

and the team's gotta wanna re-sign the guy as well. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're gonna have a lot of that over the next two months. I mean, in Gio geo to you look at how Noisy the market is I mean you heard I don't know if you saw the the Comments of Matthew Kachak or Brad Marchand or Paul Maurice and you know saying how noisy the market was I mean you look at what happened in game seven. There was certainly disappointment

How do you deal with that? Like how do you if you're a player how do you you know how do you process all of that and you know head that into the offseason and trying to reset coming back next year even better or trying to build off of what you did this year well no no you got it you can't look at it like everyone's out to get you all the time like No one's out to get anyone. I think for me personally, I played in Toronto and I played in Calgary, which is another great Canadian market. Nobody's out to get you.

The media though in Toronto and the fans in Toronto are really in tune to how the game of hockey is played and how the little things little things. And I mean, if you, if you blow it, you blow it, you gotta, you gotta know people are going to come down on you a little bit, but that comes with the territory. I'll tell you what though, if you win, if you win in Toronto or you went in Calgary, you went into Canadian market, you're like, you're king of that city. So it goes both ways. You gotta just, nobody's out to get anybody though. You just gotta, you gotta know that as a player, nobody's trying to come down on anyone harder than anyone else. It's just, you

know, there's more media here, there's more coverage. Fans know the game more than other fans in other cities and that's not a knock on anyone but that's how it is. As far as like Chucky and Marshy and I don't know what they said but that guy take everything Chucky says. There's a little grain of salt. I don't know if he's through with the boys or this, but I'll go look at the comments. Yeah. That's a good start. You said that earlier. Maurice Marchand and Kachad, they're punking.

They're punking each other. Keep it the same. You guys are great. It's just a tough market because next year we're going to come in here and punch your face in it. Exactly. They know exactly what they're doing, man. Exactly.

I'd like to know what'd like I'd like to know what they were saying during the series to the boys yeah you know I mean not after they beat you you know what I mean exactly exactly all right Gio well we always appreciate you doing this buddy enjoy the rest of the class we'll have you on before it comes to an end thanks for doing this okay boys have a good one there is marcher dental that's uh... about him a lot of things i would expect it like yes he knows i would try to you know that i can write my book you gotta consider the messenger man matthew kichuck is the last guy you can

you can trust trust us after the tempest there is both a rivalry and that's kind of not even a rivalry and we're gonna have a crowd and we just kind of dummy them every time we play them. Yeah. Yeah. I mean you got to consider the source here. It's fair. Alright, best bets coming up over Drive continues TSN 1050 and on TSN 2. Alright, today's best bets are powered by FanDuel. Make your picks and assemble. It's same game parlay in seconds in the FanDuel Sportsbook app.

I'm on the under tonight in the hockey game. Svechnikov three plus shots on goal Seth Jarvis anytime point plus 463. Gotta get it tonight if you're Carolina. What about what Dougie just... Dougie had some like he had it going overtime and then Carolina in overtime. It's too complicated. Yeah it's too... Another little nugget for Dougie if Hayes didn't find that piece of paper at the very end you should just run out the door and go right to your car. Would have got a nasty eye for that one. Never, never, Dougie. There's a lot of paper here, but it's on me to have it organized.

Today's best bet's powered by FanDuel. From puck drop to the final horn, every Stanley Cup playoff game is available on the FanDuel Sportsbook app. Please play responsibly. 19 Plus, physically located in Ontario all right so we talked about the PGA championship of course Scheffler and just the whole vibe man it was a it was a bad build-up bad weather didn't seem to be a lot of people there other than day one when there was rain I know but I'm talking like the practice rounds and all that kind of stuff it was

just like a bad vibe it wasn't a good tournament if you look in the crowd to Carolina dudes they all wear the same gear yes you get the khaki khaki shorts like a light blue polo shirt a brown belt and a hat and they rock New Balance and that's their gear yes yeah or the loafer shoe they like a loafer yes coverage of the PJ championship on overdrive brought to you by Subaru hurry into the all-in-one event for great offers and experience all the features that come standard in a Subaru So we've been up on YouTube lot YouTube live all day on the TSN That's what we are now we're YouTube stars. We're YouTube. Yeah content creators now creators

We're gonna be every single show is gonna be streaming live on YouTube You can find us on TSN. Of course, you can find us podcast it all over the place. Listen to us on TSM radio So we're just expanding that much more in terms of how you can access for on YouTube Can we start to swear because that's a good question? I don't think there's anything wrong with swearing like who cares? It's just part of it like people's that's the next step I think for us yeah you think that's what I mean I don't think we can go bulls where you can't go but I mean a little there's a few words we might be able to get Luke always swears on air yeah Luke does generally Luke drop yeah this is Luke claims he found a ball and wins that hazes a fraud on my

party I would like to challenge you me and my party versus you and Al's brother before done done I was talking about a ball challenge a football challenge let's do we want to play football we're playing golf golf done flag football and golf no no like I was talking to our boy Danny Quinn this morning about bringing Luke out he said said let's do it bring the old dog bring Luke out Let's play. Let's do it. I thought a head coach of the Spitfires too today I sound great guy awesome guy the Midwest down in Southwestern Ontario the Sun Belt love it. Ontario is great to see those guys talking Windsor

Winner loves that place. That's great. Loves it. All right boys great stuff. Thanks to everyone behind the scenes for helping out We appreciate it everyone for tuning in today TV radio podcast web and YouTube. We're out of here Enjoy your evenings. Enjoy the games tonight. We're back tomorrow at 4 p.m. We'll chat then TSM plus is taking game day to a whole new level with NFL red zone Subscribe now for every touchdown from every game every Sunday afternoon. NFL Red zone available on TSM plus. Made in Canada delivers 100% homegrown hits all day, every day. Tap into Made in Canada now on iHeartRadio.ca or the free iHeartRadio app. Proudly powered by all your friends' vests June 28th and 29th.

Featuring Avril Lavigne, Simple Plan and more.