OverDrive - OverDrive - May 29, 2025 - Hour 1

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

Join Bryan Hayes, Jamie McLennan and Jonas Siegel for Hour 1 on OverDrive! The guys discuss Brad Treliving's end-of-season press conference, the change of DNA on the team, the future of Mitch Marner and John Tavares and the perspective of the outlook of the roster. They further the viewpoint of the construction of the team, how they will seek the most success in Toronto, the pedigree of a Stanley Cup contender, the progression in the lineup, the Panthers advancing to the final and Mattias Ekholm back on the Oilers' blue line against the Stars.

Squinting through bright days? That's a no. Struggling with glare? Also no. What about sunglasses over regular glasses? Big no. But prescription sunglasses from Pearl Vision? That's a huge yes. They're a must-have for enjoying the sun in style. Choose from designer frames like Ralph Lauren, Coach, Michael Kors, and more. Arrange an eye exam at pearlvision.ca and get 40% off lenses. Some restrictions and exclusions may apply. See participating stores for details. Are you age 16 to 30 and ready to make a real impact? The Youth Thrive program, funded by Canada Service Corps and delivered by the Career Foundation, is your chance to develop

leadership skills, connect with mentors, and gain real-world experience, all while giving back to your community. Best of all, it's a no-cost program available across Ontario, Nova Scotia, Alberta, and BC. Thoughts are limited, so register now at CareerFoundation.com. That's CareerFoundation.com. Join today and be part of something amazing. This Hour of Overdrive is powered by FanDuel. FanDuel, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. Alright, here we go, Overdrive, off and running. TSN 1050 on the TSN app, your home smart speaker, and up on TSN 2, Brian Hayes, Jamie Noonels, McClennan, Jonas Siegel of The Athletic.

What's going on? What's happening today? How are we feeling? He of the Athletic. What's going on? What's happening today? How are we feeling? He got the first question. I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to go there first. Like question one. How did you get the first question with Brad Tree Living?

What happened there, Jonas? You're just kind of like waiting. It's a weird setup. Like you're kind of like motioning to like, hey, I wanna ask a question. Yeah. And right when he was saying what he was saying, I was like, I got a million questions.

I'll just like jump up and try to get the first one in based on what he said. Because I didn't totally understand what he was, I know what he was trying to say, but I don't totally know what he was trying to say. Well, you asked about the DNA, which was a perfect question. It was a great, and he even said, great question.

And then he was pausing, he like how am I gonna answer this one? Yeah, because that was kind of the one of the bigger quotes where the the DNA of this team has to change and you asked Them well, what does that mean? Like what is what does it look like? How do you do that? He quoted the day for me like that that DNA and I thought your question was great, you know He just didn't answer it. Yeah, he didn really like did well you I guess you asked him the question I had in the end he said like I don't know that I answered your question I almost was like the tip of your you know when you have the tip of your tongue you're like I got like

something else I want to ask I don't know what I still don't know what that means like because the team is the same I don't like I'm not a scientist but DNA you can't really change DNA, can you? But he referred to in his answer that maybe they need to bring in outside DNA? Well, I think- Like different personalities? Yeah, I mean, listen, there's a lot to get into based on what we heard from Brad True Living today.

You know, the DNA clip, okay, again, I don't know what that exactly means or what it looks like it I guess if Tavares and Marner leave okay there's a DNA change but those are guys leaving but I think what you bring up Jonas is an important point it may be a shot or a direction towards players who are gonna stay like you better change your DNA but I don't know if that's possible. It's not. Like can Austin Matthews snap out of this and say,

you know what, I'm going to be an absolute, I'm going to play like Barkov did last night. Next time I'm in that situation. I don't know if he can. See, I got it, I interpreted it different. I went with what you've been saying all along. There's four of them that have the exact same DNA. It's addition by subtraction because if you have two,

no problem because you can build around. Four is just too much. It's an insurmountable amount to build around if four guys are wired the exact same way. That's what I took out of it is the DNA, whether you change it is you know the DNA whether you change it but you change the DNA because you can't have too many guys that are wired the same way. I look you just mentioned Barkov and the Florida Panthers. You can

have Barkov and Reinhardt who kind of have a certain the way that they like to play but then you surround them with some different type of DNA, the Marshands, the Kachaks, and Bennets, stuff like that. So that's the DNA I got out of. I'm sure. And that would again be a combination of both, the guys that leave that allow you to do that, but then the guys you bring in. But then, you know, this is the thing about Florida. They're so good. And they did it again last night. They're going back to a cup final It did not happen overnight. It takes a long time. Yes, and you know, they they found Uh, michaela and they and and reinhardt happened to be available and they made the deal and cachuc happened to be available and made the deal

Um, you know sam bennett like let's write brad tree living had b Bennett and Kachuk and they're both down in Florida Yeah, you know so that was helpful for Florida that they they found those guys Mika. La they found So you know there's there's such a different It takes years to do that now again I think what tree-living brought up today, and I think it's important And I think this gets kind of lost in the shuffle at times because this is a really good team that had a really good year. You look at Rod Brindimore last night, like even Rod, remember he was like when someone finally asked him kind of a positive question he was like thank you, like we're in the conference

final here. And I think that's kind of what needs to be considered here is there. You can't replicate Florida. Florida is just everything's been perfect for them. Right. And they are, they're an absolute demon and they're a beast and they're so good and you're not going to do it. And when you try to do it, it's not going to work. Right.

But what the least have in terms of a framework is two goalies, six defensemen, four or five forwards that are still really good players. A couple who are superstars.ars, they're here already. So you do have the framework of a very good team. It's like, okay, how are you going to build that up and inject that winning DNA, which again is something everyone's seeking. The Maple Leafs are not the only team looking for guys who know how to win. Every team in the league wants that guy.

I struggle with that though, Like the intangible element. The intangible, especially when it comes to winning. Like I've seen it here and you've seen it here where it's like you bring in a player from a cup champion. You're like, well, we got that guy now. He knows how to win. It's like, doesn't really work that way. You know, like remember like this is way back, but they brought in like Christopher Stieg and Dave Boland, and those guys were good players on Chicago, but it doesn't really translate. Like Sam Bennett might be really effective on Florida.

He might not be so effective in that, like if you bring him here, you know what I mean? Like it's so specific to the place. But it comes back to, maybe I just generalized it too much, but didn't you get the feeling like a different mix is what's needed? That's kind of, you know, but how extreme would you expect? I don't think I think it can one player out in one or two in. And that's the thing. He's like, yeah, if if Marner was willing to stay,

let me ask you this. OK, do you think they wanted? Do you think they'd want to keep him still? Well, that question wasn't asked today. And it was interesting, again, me being hero on the the couch going how come this question wasn't asked or how come there wasn't a follow-up on that? You get one question and then one at the end is talking about the scouting staff. I'm like that could have been a you know somebody asked about the scouting staff. I'm like can you just stay on point here? Like I don't know what that question was and who asked that question but why are you asking him about the scouting staff when you've got one question to ask

about what just happened and that and and I get it but I I'm sitting there going okay at the end of the day did anybody point blank are you interested in signing Mitch Marner? Well he was asked about Marner in like roundabout ways but he didn't actually say like he kind of danced around it like he kind of said like we got to go through the process like the season ended like 11 days ago like yeah well we have an example of it do you want to hear an example of yeah being asked about Marner and how he responded this is Brad Trillivier earlier this morning

we're in that process right now I had a meeting with all the players individually. We do our exit meetings. Mitch and I had a discussion. It's emotional right now, right? And so my discussion with Mitch is let's all take a step back, let's take a deep breath. I got to decompress a little bit. So we're going to meet as a staff. I'm going to be in touch with Mitch's representative and all of our players' representative and determine what's best, right? Now, Mitch has a say in this as well, right? So this isn't the world according to Brad. I think he's a great player. He's been a great player here. We'll have to see. We'll have to see how this all works. Can I think Mitch can succeed? Yes, I do. So that last point I think is important. I think you also have to remember

that it has been well documented. The Leafs have been trying to engage with him all year and Marner has not been willing to even talk to our our that is our understanding right so tree living also might be in a position where he's like I don't want to us to look so desperate here and say we're dying to have Mitch back and we're calling him off the hook and he's not answering and then this guy leaves on July 1st yeah and then how do you explain it like I think he's I

Think the way true living spun it today was if Marner leaves It's because Marner wanted to leave right not that we didn't yeah And he does and then he won't have to really answer it. He'll never give you an answer He'll filibuster and say listen, we love Mitch. He's a great player, you know, it's too bad that it couldn't work out He made the decision though, and he's gone somewhere else and we'll go in a different direction he'll never be pinned down if Marner makes the decision to leave but to answer your earlier question about whether or not whether or not we think the Leafs would try to sign him I don't I don't think it's a hundred

percent certain they would I don't I don't think it's zero percent though but and so that don't. I don't think it's 0% though. And so that gets to my question. And it never has been with this team. It's like if you wanna change the team, but like you're willing to sign that guy and like you're willing to sign Tavares, you're basically keeping the same team. Well, and it's change happening

not because you're deciding it, because again, Marner is saying, I'm leaving. It has nothing to do with you and your plans and your DNA test. It's, I'm outta here. And Tavares could be a different story, but. Right, it has nothing to do with you and your plans and your DNA test. It's I'm out of here. Right. And you know, Tavares could be a different story.

But everybody is talking and I don't know, maybe we can go back on it, but it just tree looked like he was talking in past tense. Yeah, with Marner as Marner did as Marner did when his walkout. There has been a lot of past tense loved my time in Toronto all of that type of stuff We I think Mitch can win like you might as well like what you're not gonna bury the guy I know he was not coming in to say and it's not fair to Marner to say like we need change and it's Mitch That's going and that's the change we need. That's not fair. They're not it's not accurate because exactly There's other guys that didn't show up either in the hundred percent This is not all on Mitch Marner has earned the right to become an unrestricted free agent

That's his right and whether he choose to move move on or not Like they'll have to live with it. My only I guess from a business standpoint Like it's been tough on the the Leafs to go. We got to figure out you you're staying you're not staying Yes tough on the Leafs to go, we got to figure out. You're staying, you're not staying. Yes. So we talked about it, was it yesterday or the day before, is we'd love for Tree to come out and definitively, he's not coming back. I know, so why not say that? Because in the end, like he just said, there's still a chance that if Marno goes, yeah, the Stephen Stamkos, yeah, the marketplace looked good out here, but I would like to stay but that again great where you're getting to have that would say the lease one him to stay where if you realize we have a problem

here we've got to change it they should be calling mitch and saying thank you for great and great nine years so just were going somewhere what if you came out and said you know what it's been great he's one of the best players this team has ever had no doubt about that but we think it's time to move on would that be so wrong like yet no i mean i i don't think it would be i'd i wasn't expecting that to happen i would have liked to have maybe heard that if that's the truth but i don't know if it is the truth i don't know if that's really how they feel

uh... but what it also would open the door to is then you gotta go to the next guy and that's the bars they okay if you're making that decision on Marner without even considering where he stands, like maybe Mitch circles back and I think Tree Living spoke eloquently about you know the dust settles like it does every single year with every single team, it's no different here from everywhere else and you breathe a little bit, you get out of the emotion of it all and you say okay what do we actually have, what are we doing doing where are we going with this you know and that that could could happen with Marner with Tavares though it's different and what I took out of it from the Tavares standpoint is the door is open for them not to bring him back

he was less committal than I thought that's that's that I think is more significant news that's what I I actually was like oh because the way John was speaking the dink was just about dry right the way John was speaking mm-hmm that the ink was just about dry right the way tree spoke is like we had a good chat we will see we will see yes because the Marner like Marner it's that there's a dance there's an element to a dance here because Mitch is the number one free agent and like he's he's in his prime hundred-point guy he's a key contending player that is a great player great player and he plays every single night, no injury issues or anything. He's going to show up and he's going to play. He's the number

one guy and he's going to fetch a fortune and a lot of teams are going to be calling on him. And I think there's an element of tree living probably looking at it saying, I don't know if I want to be like, you know, well we really want him back. And then Mitch's camp is going to use that and apply it once they get the free agency and it's more, I think it's more delicate with him. Yeah, that's fair. Where Tavares is a different story because, you know, like this is I guess the way to put it, if you move off Mitch Marner, if you make that decision, then you're making an evaluation that is a negative one in connotation. That even with the 100 points, even with the Selke, even with making Canada,

and he's probably going to be on the Canadian team at the Olympic Games, even with all that, you determined that's not for us. Like that's sharp evaluation and quite frankly, criticism. I don't think they're going to do that because I think they respect him too much. Tavares, you can sell it as you're 35, it's different now, we're worried about the wheels falling off. Yeah, exactly. Marner's wheels aren't falling off. No.

Marner's going to be great for the next six, seven, eight years. Tavares is a business decision. Yes. Mitch is the DNA decision. That's the way to put it. Tavares, and listen, Tavares ours factors into the DNA to he's been here for seven years he Was the captain for six of those right or five of those and and he's a big personality And he's he's a prominent player And he's a local guy and he's got endorsements and everyone knows him and everyone's known him since he was like ten years old

In this area right like he was a phenom growing up Exceptional status to the oh all that stuff. He has been a larger than life figure in this market for a long time, but he's 35. He's not a number one center and he'll never be a number one center again. Anywhere he goes, that's not the role he's likely to play. You can't use that with Mitch make if you decide I don't want Mitch Marner back That means you're saying there's something about Mitch Marner or at least the way he he he jives with everyone else that I don't like or I don't want as a part of my team, but it was that line He said at the end. He said something like I believe he can succeed and I think he meant here like in Toronto

I didn't I I took it the other way though. Oh, really? I believe he can study even if he meant here, like in Toronto. See, I didn't, I took it the other way though. Oh really? I believe he can see. But even if he meant here, it's a throwaway comment that no one's going to hold him to. But I guess what I was going to say Hayes is like what you're saying, if he came out and said what you're saying is implicitly maybe implied, I don't think anyone would be like, yeah, I don't understand why you're doing that. Do you know what I mean? In terms of Marner?

Yeah, like you came out and said, you know what? It's been great. It's time. I don't think any of us would be like, I don't understand that at all. Well, you know, that makes sense. Like keep in mind, we've been talking about this for five years.

You're right. Look at the other side of it. And somebody did ask, listen, I think all the questions were good. I just was like, I wish there was more of them. I think that's what it was. But somebody did ask and he talked about it like if Mitch Marner chooses to leave, like there's not a guy on a tree that you go and and and pull hey there's

another Mitch Marner. It's the changing of the look and that's what we've been saying all along. You're not replacing Mitch Marner with another hundred point guy. It might be two two guys it might be a combination and here here's another another part of it in terms of why you may not publicly reveal it as much as it would be very refreshing and possibly very honest and genuine like if that's the way he he sees it that Marner's they got to move on from Marner right is a again sh, again, Shannan's not here anymore, but when he arrived, one of his things was to, you know, make it comfortable for the players and to embrace the

history and the legends of the game and the legends of the team. And again, the dust will settle down the road and people will look back on the story of Marner as certainly incomplete. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't finished, you know, ending on somewhat of a maybe a tragic... I think it's kind of sad. Somewhat sad because it's the local guy that got drafted here, this young guy that went down to London, he's a wizard, he showed up and he was unbelievable and it just, it should have been the greatest story ever.

It really should have been. If he leaves, then it ultimately won't be. But again, Lanny McDonald left, he didn't win, everyone loves Lanny McDonald. You know, Dougie Gilmore was here for a handful of years and left and played all over the league and we all love Doug Gilmore and there's a number of different guys. Yeah, like there's a chance 10, 15, 20 years from now Mitch Marner will return to the market and it will... I think you're right. And I think you want... He'll be celebrated yeah and i i think i wouldn't be surprised to tree living in maple

e-sports and entertainment are cognizant of that like let's be careful with with how we speak on the way out but i also think there's a the the most important element to this in terms of not going public with that evaluation if the evaluation is we just gotta get out of the mitch marner game because it doesn't work. The follow-up question is then why does Auston Matthews work? Why are you in his why does why are you still is a contract? No but that's a different conversation Jonas. If you're deciding we

don't want to issue a contract to Mitch Marner that's what we're talking about here hypothetically right Mitch could say, I'll play for league minimum. And they say, no, we don't want you here anymore because we need something different. You come out and say that, the follow-up is, well, why is 34? What does he have that that guy doesn't have? What does Nylander have? Why does he get to stay then? Yeah, like are you going to blow up the entire team? But if you feel like you got DNA issues, and again it's the core why is it that guy as opposed to the other guys if you've made the decision it should be that guy. How would you answer that? I think I

don't know if you would have an answer. No but we... Other than well there are there we signed them and there are you know they play different positions and Austin might be a little bit different. Right. Willie's not though. Well Willie was horrendous in game five and game seven. Yeah, but he also had more moments in those playoffs than Marner or Bams. Game six against Ottawa. The first round he had 15 points in the playoff. Game six against Ottawa. The last part of the series against Florida he was not good at all. Completely checked out. And it's just, I'm not trying to, I'm not running at Willie. That's not my point. I think what you're getting at though is this is not

their decision. He clearly does not, well what appears he does not want to stay. That's right. This is like it's not there to call the elephant in the room as they've been told already. Don't even bother very well. Even if they haven't been told look what happened during the season. Like they wanted to sign him. He didn't want to sign. Cool. This has been a long standing, the unique position we are in is we've had these conversations for years about the term on term core four.

You got to break it up. Well, now when they are looking that it is going to be somewhat broken up or some version of it, people are like, wow, you got to be careful with that. Well, that comes back to the word DNA, just the makeup of the group. It doesn't, and I think treated a good job laying out is let's have some perspective here. We've got a very good team. So let's, you know, I liked how he said, let's work backwards from this. He went through everything, you know, we're pre-pornation face off, all of that. Yes, how they play down the stretch.

I liked the, uh, the Matthews injury question too. I thought that was a, you know, a good question. I can't remember. I thought that was a you know a good question I can't remember who brought it up, but you know I just in looking at it He he said like he almost admitted it saying this group as it's constructed the core for all of that doesn't work We've just got nine years of data. Yes, and and listen. It's long overdue I think we all all of us agree with that. In retrospect, they should have gotten off of it years ago, but they chose not to. They chose to stick with it and some of it was contracts, but they handed out those contracts. And ultimately, they're here and the core four and everything that came with it, they make the playoffs every

single year. Two of the last three years, they've been into the second round, they've run into Florida. No one beats Florida. All know, they're all this is true But I guess what I'm getting at when I look at Matthews and I look at Nylander like they haven't won either Like no one so even if Mitch leaves, which I think he will and maybe they move off to Varus The guys who are coming back like they still they kind of prove that they can be comfortable in those big moments Is which is what he talked about all day today because ultimately it is the slimmest of margins, but it's the most important margin There is a post-war. It's the it gene. It's go time. We're under the lights Go-time clutch the clutch. It's the clutch gene. I don't think Jonas believes in the clutch

You don't believe in it, but it's been disproven in baseball There's like a whole big thing about cheater and how about Aaron judge doesn't hit the playoffs not cut He's not clutch for sure. So he doesn't have a clutch gene. Did you see the playoffs last year? It wasn't great Have you been watching him play this year? Do you think he's clutch? Right Jonas, but it is in play this year do you think he's clutch? Regular. That's a good point. You're right, Jonas. My bad. But it is. He did talk about the process and you know rising to the moment and the best players

have that calming ability in a game seven, in a deciding game. So you know maybe again we're not behind the curtain. They've obviously you know Brad tree living has been here two years Craig Ruby's been here one. Mm-hmm I guarantee you they've talked until they're blue in the face as to all of how this looks and how it feels And all of that even talked about game seven. He said that morning it felt confident They felt like everything was all good But he said it at the Seth Jones goal, it may as

well have been 4-0. It completely collapsed. You know, we can go back and look at it. You're right, the team was paralyzed after that. Yeah, when they went down 3-0, I remember writing in my notes, they're playing like the game is over. And it's like, there's half of the game left. Well, that was when Barube started. Yeah. Barube was yelling and that's when Marner was saying wake up and like it was all within like a seven-rate stretch. Can I add one thing? You're not gonna like this. As much as those players at the top deserve a lot of the scrutiny that they're getting, the rest of the players were't good enough. Like that's partly on the front office. I don't think they brought in the right people.

They're gonna have to fix that this summer. Like that's... I don't know if that's DNA. I think talent is probably what you probably need more of. Flexibility. So you don't have to have league minimum contracts and stuff. You can have a three million dollar player playing farther down in your lineup because you haven't you know you don't have it all at the top of the roster like that's you know with all of this what we've been talking about if Mitch Marner chooses to move on if they move from John Tavares

or he signs a really tiny contract you've got money to spend on players to round this group out to make that Seventh forward really good. Maybe there is there was a question about their decor, you know And tree was pretty much in park moving not moving. We're seeing it seeing in the playoffs Look at that Jake woman like yeah, like move the puck. Well, Klingberg all of a sudden has come to life But you know last night it's Forsling. Forsling gets it picked off. I thought that game was, I can't believe Florida came back in that game.

I can believe, but I thought, okay, Carolina's got something here, and Florida just continued to chip and chip and chip, and that was it. It was gone in like 30 seconds. It was gone, gone. But puck moving defensemen and more depth to help that group.

And internal growth. Maybe Matthew Nyes Stabilizes or sorry takes another step or maybe we just see what he is as far as the ceiling which is a really damn good player So, you know, there's lots but there's decisions to be made. Yes with those two, but you're right, you know What are you doing with the yarn croaks and yeah guys like that? I've ever their bottom six forwards didn't score in the playoffs That's as much as like it's on the Stars, you're allowed to help, right? Yes. Look at Florida, like look at their third line, like look how good that third line is. Now again, Florida is... Look at Edmonton, like

Henrique scored key goals, so I mean Connor Brown, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah listen, I'm not disputing the importance of depth. I mean, I think it's necessary I think the issue again is that the core guys have made so much money Yeah, that there just has not been enough flexibility was the choice as you know of the front. They made that decision Yes, exactly. And and also, you know again this gets back to the scouting. I think a reasonable question is Ideally you've got two or three kids on your bottom six that are like ready to burst They don't have and they never have that like they never have a 21 22 year old kid Who's just like chomping at the bit throw them in there throw them on the fourth line instead?

It's you know, let's pick up Lorenz or let's go get lot and A couple years ago Dallas gets Stan Kovac. You're like, who's where's this guy? And he's like, look at this guy. And like that means the opponents like, man, we got this guy can play and he's maybe he's only gonna play 13, 14 minutes. Dallas has that Bork kid who was a HL Pops. They got a bunch of young players.

You're right. And you know what? So you're, what you're saying is the scouting question. No, no, no. I don't even remember the context of it. I'm joking around. I don't want to take a shot. I think it was Scott Wheeler that might have asked it, wasn't it?

Okay. My buddy. Who? Who? Josh Cloak. Oh, I love Josh. Oh, we love Cloak. Hello. You gotta ask him why the hell he asked that question. Uncle Leo. It was more, was it more about building the the scouting, like, depth of it? You don't get so many availabilities with the GM. Right. He kind of got a pick and choose your spots for what you're working on. He's a draft guy, right? Like Josh is. All right, well, apologize to him for me. Yeah, well, we all apologize right now. The tough thing in those is like you get one question basically. It's like that was not, the question I asked was not the question I wanted to ask. Well, what was the question? I had like three or four. What's the

question you would ask right now that you didn't say? Why don't we come back and we'll do a little role play. You can ask. Okay. Noodles and I'll be the play the role of Brad Tree Living. You play Brad Tree Living. I got to get my notebook. We've got a list that you're going to get to. Right? I've got, uh, I got a list I'm working on. I may, I may workshop it with you guys. Yeah. And I think cause I was going to put a list together of, you know,

the best teams since the lockout since the in the cap era like now that we're considering Florida's into the cup final now for a third straight year Maybe I will use Florida and I'm gonna throw other teams at you and you guys tell me who you think is better We rank them. Yeah, we'll get to that a little bit later this afternoon as well overdrive continues TSN 1050 and on TSN to all All right Overdrive continues powered by FanDuel bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. Brian Hayes, Jamie Noodles, McClennan, Jonas Siegel in here at the Athletic. Brad Trilliving spoke this morning. We're hoping to have him on the show in the next couple of days anyway. Possibly in

the next week we'll see but we'll get them on, we'll ask all these questions. We'll ask for next week. I think so, I'm off tomorrow. I'm not, I might, well I just. And O's off, so it'll be all, you can go Larry King tomorrow if you want. I could go Larry King and then. It'll be all you all the time.

And Josh Cloakley can call me and tell me that I asked bad questions. Absolutely, be like, well I noticed in the third question. You bumbled that that that was stupid yeah cuz I was up at Osprey Valley today they're up there the NHLPA in Gulf Canada I've been doing stuff Carlo Coli Aqua was there was interesting was William Nylander was there oh yeah I looked happy as hell Willie goes all the way over there wins a bronze and then comes back over and

starts slashing it around Osprey Valley with his brother with Alex yeah yeah he looked like he was having a great time i you know what that's he should be i guess why not be in a candid moment maybe a question for chief or whatever do you remember alex neilander's name was on the score sheet yes game six Ottawa that could have been that could have been a. William had three points that night. Can you imagine if his brother had to play and he couldn't that night because of a technical error? Like that one I would like to, that's a 30 for 30.

Possibly, I mean he ended up playing and they won the game but if he didn't play and they lost and then went to a game seven, then that is a completely different story altogether crazy Alright, do you have a couple of questions noodles can play the role play of? Brad true living I was struggling with the phrasing Okay, but okay. What do you get one of the questions? I was gonna ask and Again, I didn't know how to phrase it exactly is

How much change is enough? Because it's kind of what you and I are talking about and I think we're on the same page, we're agreeing. Always. Like Marner leaving is one thing, is that enough? Like how much change does this team actually need? I don't think he would give you a definitive answer but. I don't either.

But it would be fair to say you can't keep doing the same thing. So change could be significant. Yes, and I actually thought that, to me, that was the most interesting thing he said the whole press conferences, and he said it a couple times. He said, we can't be so rigid in what we're doing. Right.

And to me, my mind went to Shanahan, because that was kind of what they were, is they were rigid. Yeah, he's bullish on those guys, yeah. So I would say to your good question is, okay, I don't know. I don't know, but we are gonna try a different way because what we've been doing

has gotten the ceiling we've hit is the second round. Yes, which is not that. You roll the dice, but other organizations roll the dice all the time. Billito was like Hubert Oh, you got to go You know like you look at other Organizations that try to get to the next level Evan to the Oilers like you know a lot of people gave them hack a lot of turnover last offseason man And not a lot of positive news on it. You know

Now in large part because of the way the guys played like Holloway left, Broberg was really good. They were off. Jeff Skinner they're like we can't even play this guy. Skinner's going to help you scout but you know Arvidsson in and out like they'd it wasn't unwarranted but Edmonton's like this is what we if everybody's healthy and playing well this is what we envision our group to be. And it's a big swing sometimes, because you're right.

I guarantee you in February, Jeff Jackson, Stan Bowman are probably sitting there with this hallway's got 26 goals and going, well, for 2.8 million, what are we doing here? But in the end, coming back to your question, we will know, like you don't know until you know and change it could be for the better because we know what the ceiling is for this group and that's that's the way I would phrase it yeah and ultimately

that's that that's really what it comes down to you've got a freshen something up I also think it will benefit the other guys and predominantly the the best players and we're talking Matthews and Nylander and Riley because there's an element of like staleness to them in the market too, right? It's just it's just been nine years of the same and core for this and core for that where if there is a tangible change where let's say Marner goes and maybe Tavares goes and There's just a different group in there. Yes, Matthews is going to be on the marquee every night and he's worthy of that. He's their captain, their best

player, highest paid guy. You know, he's been the franchise really since they won the lottery and Willie's a great player that continues to put up great numbers. Those guys are always, if you're a superstar you're at the forefront. You can't escape that but it will will almost, in a way, I think, freshen their storyline up a little bit in this city. If you take Marner and Tavaros off, because the four of them have collectively just played together also for seven years. In different combinations, but they're always together.

But they've got to take, to be honest, if you come back to one word, they take ownership of it now. It's not four. It might be two that, you know back to one word, they take ownership of it now. It's not four, it might be two. That you were paying these two guys. Now again- You were staying, you better put up or shut up now. Austin's been handed to see, this is his team.

He's to take ownership of it. And so I think you're right. If Mitch and or John, I'm not convinced it's both of them. I do believe that. See, that's kind of what I'm getting at with that question is I think the Taveras decision, if I were running the team is really hard. I don't know what I'd do because like at some point, like you got to change. Like he's a good player.

But do you need to change you and forget about like age and position and like all in playoffs? Right. I don't know like how much change do you need? I would be fine with again easier said than done I Don't know the number of term really. It's the number the term is might be a moot point based on You know them their ability to flex their financial You know, but say let me ask you because I know where you stand on this Say he came to you and he said like whatever you wanted me to sign I'll sign let's hide from like something silly because not signing this spetsa deal, right? Mm-hmm. Will you do it?

Or would you just be like, you know what? You're a great player. You've been a great player We got a change is it tied to the Marner decision though? be like you know what you're a great player you've been a great player we got to change is it tied to the Marner decision though no it's just we know let's say we assume he's leaving okay and you know that I think I would move off both guys like I would just be in a position where it takes takes a lot of courage there's a lot of unknown out there you know like John comes with stability John's gonna play john's a really good

player is gonna score a lot of goals and your the regular season he's a professional that when you play on a sleepy tuesday against the team and the other guys are playing he may show up and be like you know i'm getting to and we're winning tonight and there's a lot of value in that i would i would go with the extreme like the nuclear version of value in that. But I would go with the extreme, like the nuclear version of change

in terms of the core four. Like I would move off both, this is your opportunity. It's ripping the band-aid off, it's not uncomfortable, it's not asking someone to wave something, right? It's just, it's fresh, it's here. And I think again, what needs to be remembered is like, they have given these players ample opportunities they've been here a long time like through the time frame in the lens of

sports nine years for Marner and seven for Tavares is a long long time it is and they've turned over everybody else in the organization the GMs have changed the coaches have changed literally every other player on the changed literally every other player in the team literally every other player has flipped and in many ways multiple times except for Riley there's the five guys every other player has come and gone and flipped and they've tried different variations and um... you know it's worked in some ways and yet it hasn't worked in the ultimate way

so i would i would take that voyage i would just look at it and say I still have Matthews, I still have Nylander, I still have Knives. I've got a defense that I actually think he opened the door to continuing to change with his comments today. And I got my two goalies and I got Perube behind the bench. Well let's see what's out there via trade, via signing. Maybe Easton Cowan's a part of the program next year, and let's freshen this up and try to go a different direction. I understand what you're saying. I might be even more creative with this.

If he decides that he wants to stay, and you say, okay, it's Max Domi's contract. What does Max make, three? Three, seven, five, yeah. A couple years. It's a four-year deal. He's got three left But you put him in that spot and then you find a spot for Max Domi

Like you move off Max don't move up because because what it what it does is it place like I'm just looking Again, you make a great point because we've got nine years of data, but I'm looking at what you just said You got to make the playoffs and you just said you got to make the playoffs and you want to you want to place as high as you can in the standings and on a sleep sleepy Tuesday Don Tavares might give that to you so we're talking about depth you move him from the top six down to the bottom six Tavares what I'm talking about that's a hell of a player on a value contract that again there's baggage because of what's gone on and that's where you're going to go. But that's an upgrade in that hole.

If you can again find a landing spot for an up you know I would view Tavares as an upgrade on Domi because you're sliding him in. But you also have to like project what he is before is not what you're looking at. You're trying to say like 35 36 37 like what is he? But if we were if we were just doing he's a hundred percent yeah if you're if you're looking at a two-year window regardless of the contract length player A or player B Tavares or let's say Domi. Who are you taking? Let me pull this out. Player C, Jonathan Taves. Well, I saw that. And the 37?

Yeah, but he wants to, he's going to return, he said 100% committed to playing again in the league. I mean, you've got to look at it, but I still think you need a number two. I don't think that's the... Like, it's... Well, you're saying Tavares won't be the number two, though. No, no, no. Like, in your scenario, he's in the bottom six.

And Taves wouldn't be either. No, of course not. He's not a second-line course not so my point is is you can have a combination of tays on your team but you're still going after i don't know that person is brayden shan or somebody you know it's a trade because it's not a free agency i don't think it is i know i mean is going to shane yeah i mean sam bennett people keep obviously he's a guy that could be available You're right like but again Sam Bennett there would probably be nights where you go if Tavares

State I'll play Tavares ahead of Bennett in certain scenarios that's what will happen For sure regular season but you know when push comes to shove I didn't even you know I wasn't even going down the Bennett Road I was looking at him just saying like he could be a free agent, could be available. Yeah. But we're playing the what a could a should a game. No.

But I just, I understand what you're saying. When it comes back to the word DNA, change is ripping the band-aid off and you have the ability to do it right now without asking people to waive. Not uncomfortable. Yeah, and then there's, like this is. It is a little uncomfortable, isn't it?

Like you have the guy Basically saying I will stay I want to stay yeah, but you could also challenge that right you could like really, okay Do you want to say you can't have this special deal and you can stay do you think he wants to stay at that? Yeah, of course. I want to stay but I don't you know, I've got to make a lot of money Yeah, like that let's you got to be honest about it wants to stay as long as He gets paid a certain amount of money, which he's entitled to he's a free agent. He's a pro like that let's you got to be honest about it wants to stay as long as he gets paid a certain amount of money which he's entitled to he's a free agent he's a pros a really good player but yeah the interesting that Jonathan

Taves you know be on the market I don't know what he'll be looking for I would think that's got to be a one-year I would think you know like a one-year deal a little bit of money and say you know we'll bring you in I don't know if you can commit long term to a guy who hasn't played in a few years a one-year deal I am a little bit of money and say you know We'll bring you in I don't know if you can commit long term to a guy who's in played in a few years So one year deal and you know by all accounts like I would Probably give the leg up to Winnipeg wouldn't share like a manitoba guy You know all of that has a relationship with them like that'd be a great story like if he signed in Winnipeg Yeah, probably on the fourth line. You know you you're going to have Shifely, you're going to have Lowry.

They need a second line center out there, but that's not him. I don't think. No, but I mean, you know, maybe you push him to the wing. Like, you know, winger is a less responsible. Yeah. Healers if he moves. Yeah. You've missed time. The biggest thing you can, you can hide a winger. Sanderman is a little bit tougher to hide because of the responsibility defensively. So you go Taze, like, yes, we're gonna take big draws, but we want you on left wing on the third line.

You know, but neither rider's there, but you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, you can find a way to make it work with him. I'm sure you can. I think it's interesting, and it's a good storyline, and of course you'll be linked to the Leafs, because everybody's always linked to the everyone is So as they should and you know what he's a you talk about winning in character and DNA. That's some pretty quality DNA

It's been just proven Derek. Yeah, I don't know For sure like if anybody in hockey has it, but I just don't know this idea that it translates I I just I just I'm not sure I buy into that I get what you're saying but I also like I'll be honest like when I played for the st. Louis Blues I was a better player because of the players around me that's what I'm that's what I miss Pronger yeah Al McInnis Brett Hull remember the Toronto sign Francois Bocham it's like he won a cup in Anaheim it's's like cool. Like this is in Anaheim He doesn't have Chris Pronger and Scott Needham, right?

it's not the same but it is like my point is if you build a good team and This guy who's been there before Helps, you know settle things down to Like the key is those players that have won have to contribute They can't be sitting on the bench yelling at them going, you gotta do this, you gotta do that. We say it all the time. You have leadership qualities

when you're the guy in the fight. I remember Craig Conroy telling me this, like he was a great leader in our dress room, but he was fourth line by the end of his career. He's like, how am I gonna stand up in the dress room and yell at a top player and go, you need to do this when he goes, I'm basically sitting in a ball cap.

You know, like that's the hardest thing. You have to be, leadership comes in different avenues as well. Like Anthony Stollers could be a great leader. Sounds like he is, like guys love him. And you know, he's. And he wasn't playing right and listen Bennett almost got Freddie Anderson last night like that was

a greasy chicken wing flying elbow that he didn't like it Freddie Trent I liked it for he didn't like it like so that's he's he's playing with fire with the goalies because like we saw it in the first round who was it that Stolars was going at who was it really Greg yeah and and in the refs I think allowed him to because they said I didn't like how he flew in the in the previous game I didn't like how he was in your crease they gave him a freebie yeah I think refs are gonna look at Sam Bennett and say listen I I'm not gonna if a goalie pops you that's your problem man yeah I'm not saving you because you keep playing with that fire someone is going to lay him out and like it's one thing to throw big hits it's the one thing to stick your

knee you know there's different things that to me last night that was a greasy play and the fact that Carolina didn't really do anything again after we heard early in the round Kutryuk saying, well, we went after Ajo and that's the team we are, like they could have done something, they did nothing to us. Not really in their DNA. It's not the way they're wired.

Not in their DNA. And it's not the way the Leafs are wired. Exactly. But that, you know, that is, it's a great point. The word DNA comes with a lot of different connotations, right? Possibly. The way they did meanings. Possibly.

All right, James Duthie coming up in studio, into the next hour the next hour overdrive continues TSN 1050 and on the TSN out all right stars looking to survive tonight the Knicks looking to survive Blue Jays with a big win last night Boba Shet with a pinch hit home run to run home run in the ninth I was flipping back and forth last night that game was so awful it was 0-0 again into the ninth and Bichette was dealing he was a little bit banged up he didn't start I didn't I wasn't sure he was available to even pinch head. Kirk wasn't starting either so Kirk comes in to pinch hit before Bichette and Bo like he's barely pinch

hit throughout his whole career because he starts all the time he'd never had I don't think he'd ever had a pinch hit hit. Really? And he hit a bomb last night. They ended up winning two nothing. But the offense on both sides, just awful with both teams. Yeah, the Jays got two or three and they move on and they're back in action tonight. So we got hockey tonight, we got baseball tonight, we got basketball tonight.

Mathias Ekholm returning to the lineup. That's big for Edmonton man. He's right in there with Bouchard, top pairing. Yeah I thought they'd go 11-7 and kind of bleed him back into the lineup but every defenseman I've been talking to Struddy and Rhett Warner and the guys that I hate are like they hate that. Struddy's like it's like because you go out there what did he. Strutting you want to play because you go out there. What did he say on Jay show? It's like you go out for dinner with three couples and then another guy and he goes, why is that other person there?

He goes, you're just a floater. It was actually a good analogy. Yeah, but that's exactly what it is. Yeah. Because you're like, oh, is he taking my shift? Yeah. Like you, the seventh guy, you're like, just sit down there. Leave us alone.

Please. Yeah. Jeff Skinner again. So that skin is back in there, man. Yeah, like you know on the seventh guy you're like this guy down there leave us alone, please Yeah, Jeff Skinner again, so that skin is back in there man while they're dealing with big injuries So more on that into the next hour Duffy will join us in studio We get Cheryl Pounder coming up in studio later this afternoon Pierre Lebrun on the tree living You know presser today and what could happen moving forward on that front as well. Hour two up next. Overdrive continues, TSN 1050 and on YouTube Live. You've been listening to Overdrive powered by FanDuel. FanDuel, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. Shake that thing, Miss Kenna Kenna. Hey, I'm Ruby Carr, host of the podcast Encore. This week is the story behind Sean Paul's Get Busy. You know the song that gives you the feeling of the best basement party you've ever been to?

Oh, our kids already had to feel like, yo, I've been to that party, I've been there, that's me. Did you know that the video was shot in suburban Ontario? They specifically wanted the vibes of a hot party in the cold Canadian winter. It's the story behind Sean Paul's Get Busy this week on Encore. Listen on the iHeartRadio app

or wherever you get your podcasts.