OverDrive - OverDrive - November 5, 2025 - Hour 1 - Steve Phillips

Episode Date: November 5, 2025

Join Bryan Hayes, Jeff O'Neill and Jamie McLennan for Hour 1 on OverDrive! The guys discuss the Maple Leafs' matchup against the Mammoth, the landscape of the contenders in the NHL, Shane Bieber's opt-in to remain with the Blue Jays and the team moving forward from the World Series run. TSN Baseball Insider Steve Phillips joins to discuss Bieber staying in Toronto, the team's next steps and the free agent outlook for the organization and Easton Cowan sent to the Marlies.

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Fisraeliscence 12-616. This hour of overdrive is powered by Fandul. Fanduil, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. All right, here we go, overdrive off and running. PSN 1050 on the TSN app, your home smart speaker, up on TSN4, Brian Hayes, The O'Dog, Jeff O'Neill, and Jamie Noodles, McClennon. What's going on? What's going on?

I was very excited when I saw the lineup, and I saw a little something called cloning wars yeah we've been you give any insight before I prep my brain to play cloning wars okay we've been in the lab doogie and myself

I've been in the lab we've been trying to cook up some Tom Brady like bits here that we can apply to the show because we're talking about Brady right cloning his dog and how strange the exact same dog he had a dog it passed away and I don't know what he did before that dog died,

but he has the exact same dog. Yeah, the exact same dog. So it's very strange. Like, I don't think there's a lot of support for this type of activity. Yeah, Brady's putting it out there, right? Like, Brady's a content machine, man. You'd think, like, some guys, they retire and they just say, I'll see you in like 10 years at the reunion.

Oh, never, dude. Or never. Or never, I'm out of here. Brady, and I would say Peyton Manning, and there are others, they, you can't get rid of them. Like Brady's everywhere. There's Instagram, there's Twitter, there's TikTok, there's Fox, there's different endorsement deals.

Guys in Europe all the time. He's flying all over the world. Owns the Raiders. He's cloning dogs. Like it never stops. Yeah. Just one last question about the dog. Did the dog get born by like another dog or was this dog come out of a machine?

Lab. Who knows? It could be lab generated. We don't. Come on, dude. There's no such thing as a lab-generated dog. Hayes. This dog that Tom Brady has, did it come from a lab or was it birth from another dog?

Why are you asking me this as if I would have any clue? Professor Hayes are asking, man? You know this stuff. Do you want to be the host of the show? You got to know this stuff. I would assume it's from another dog. Like I think it's likely, doogie, get on it, man. Get back in the lab.

Get us more details on Brady. dog because you know it's not it's not a robot it's a real dog so well who the hell knows now what he's got he might have a robot dog with fur on it that lives forever yeah that's what's throwing us off man this ai stuff is really going to it's really going to change the world like you know many just AI videos like i watch a lot of cat videos and it leads to like lion videos and it leads to this guy that followed a wolf that came to his door and the wolf dragged him out into the woods because the mama wolf was sick with puppies so he dragged all and i'm like this is can't be real right no wolf is going to a guy's house in the woods to get him to go out

and the a i i get sucked into them all the time i'm like this can't be real some of them are done so well though i know you know you've seen like somebody who's a little thicker on a diving board and they jump and then they land and they explode like you're like what it's going on like at first i was It's like, oh, this looks like America's funniest videos. And then AI is involved, and the body explodes and there's just, you know, catch up everywhere. Like, it's just the weirdest thing. Like, AI, I do, I want one of those optimist robots. When they come out, I want, I'm definitely first in line for one of those.

You're going to get a robot? And what are you going to treat that robot? Like, are you going to yell at the robot? What are you going to do with the robot? Well, he can clean the house. I know, but what if it screws up? Like, what are you going to come in and start yelling at the robot? robot and then realize how stupid you are you're grounded go stand in the corner exactly like that's

what's coming people are going to start yell like hey you missed a spot then you're going to realize I'm talking to a robot yeah yelling at a robot like what the hell am I doing with my life what is happening here I you're right I had a conversation with somebody today about chat GPT and all of that type of stuff about you know AI and sometimes they're wrong I was arguing with my chat GPT the other day because she said a number. I kept saying a number to her. She repeated it back to me wrong. And I actually said to her, are you messing with me? She's like, no, I apologize. I'm not messing to you. I'm like, say this number again. My daughter was dying laughing. I'm arguing with my phone. Yeah. Like that's where the world's headed. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it does bring up a question

that I think is worthy of asking because you mentioned it. You do get roped into these AI videos where you're thinking, real? I don't think that can be real. What would be the sports result that would make you think twice? Like what would happen in sports where you'd say... Like a sports video? Well, let me say, let's throw this out.

The Leafs win the Cup. You watch a video, the Leafs win the Cup. Are you going to sit there and say... That's AI generating. That could be AI. I don't know. Is that AI or is that real? Dude, of course that's the video. It's been since 1967. Would you watch an AI-generated Leafs Cup run? Like, it's

Totally bogus and fake. But they play... Joe from the Bridgewood. Dude, I would watch a whole face... I would watch an AI-generated face-off series on a parade. The players taking the cup to different parties. All AI. All AI.

I'm worried that that's what's coming, is that, like, someone's going to get so desperate with their fandom. Whether it's the Leafs or anyone else, Cleveland Browns, could be anyone. Or someone's just going to say, I don't think it's going to happen for real. I'm paying the $29.99. or whatever it is, 100 bucks, a subscription. You know, everything costs insane money these days to subscribe. But how much would you pay for the subscription to the Maple Leaf Dynasty AI version?

Three cups in a row. Let me ask you. But, like, that's the thing. Where does it start? Start at the playoffs? Like, here's something crazy because it's recent guys. It goes through everything. Injuries, trade.

Here's something crazy. Comebacks. Bobby Bond type stuff. Because it's recent, let me get crazy here. What if there, we see it all the time with movies. What if there was an AI alternate ending to the World Series? And you had, you could, as a, as a Blue Javes fan, you could pay $29.99 to have it go out, you know, Alejandro Kirk hit a dinger instead of his bat breaking into a double play.

Yep. And you could experience. And you could experience. That's, that one's a little bit too raw. I think it's too fresh. Yeah, it's too fresh now. But it is actually topical because you're talking, okay, well, you could have a leaf run, all of that. What I'm saying right now, because it's November.

So the leaves you'd have to wait. What we just experienced on the weekend, would you pay $29.99 for an alternate ending to what you watched on Sunday or Saturday? I would happily pay a lot more money to be able to witness them winning, right, and experience that and cover that. that's an interesting thing too like how much would you what what's the price where you say well that's a little bit that's crazy now that now we're getting silly here 99 99 it's too I mean people pay I think I paid 69 99 to watch that YouTuber fight like Tyson or somebody wasn't it like Jake Paul Jake Paul yeah I think I paid like 69 99 to watch that fabricated I'm I paid to see McGregor fight Mayweather and

That was a terrible fight, terrible. Yeah, you're right. I mean, I spent dumb. Think about how much money you spend that's just stupid that you'll never use. You'll never, like I actually bought a T-shirt at Jay's, like Dodgers cheap. World Series. Yeah, and I'm like, I left the store. I'm like, I'll never wear that.

Never, too. What are you going to do a barbecue and someone's going to look at it and you'd be like, oh, there's a baseball guy. Exactly. You've got to wear it on, like, next Monday show for something. It's probably tight as hell. Oh, it's brutal. Dude, because it's a cotton.

Bad fit. I know. I know exactly the fit. It's boxy. It's brutal. It's brutal because I overthought it. Usually I'm a large, but the second thing, this thing gets washed, it turns into a kid small. I know. The arms will be a little bit loose and it will press right up against your man boobs and tighten.

And it'll be an awful fit after one wash. That's precisely what it is. So I went with the X-L, which means wearing it for the first time is going to look outrageous. Like whenever you're buying clothes with the intention that it's going to shrink, you know what's coming. Like it just, it should almost immediately tell you, don't do that. Shrinks in the wrong direction. That's what happens.

It shrinks in the wrong areas. That's what happens. It's going to be a mess. But anyway, we got baseball news, right? Shane Bieber opting in. Yes, that's awesome. That is. And Steve Phillips coming up in 20 minutes.

And I do think Uber positive, awesome. There is a part of me that gets the wind horse. going a little bit. Let me make sure I'm framed up properly. Yeah. Like that I, like, why? Think about this. Yeah.

He was injured and then got to the Jays and just opted in two days after this season. Right. And for everyone concedes, he would have made a lot more money. He would have got a different deal. It doesn't sound based on what I heard from Ken Rosenthal today, Ken Rosenthal, that this isn't the precursor of the Blue Jays work. on some long-term extension with him, which was my initial reaction. Like, okay, opt-in or opt-out, and the Jays, you know, both parties agreed to something,

three or four-year deal, bigger money, there you got Shane Bieber. And listen, he's, by all accounts, going to be inspired because he's going to be looking for a deal. If he's healthy and he's inspired, it's just an unbelievably positive play for the Jays. Right, now you got Gosman, you Savage, Bieber, or Rios. Although the Brieos relationship, I think, is a little bit under the radar right now. I can't imagine that's on great terms. But it just did make me wonder, like, why did he opt in so quickly?

It's a great thing. If it works out, beautiful, awesome. But why? I know. There was talk about his wife's and families' posts about how they fell in love with Toronto and how the organization made everything fun again and blah, blah, blah. But I was looking at some free agents and what they were kind of projected to make. And it seemed like this guy was lined up to cash in on a $150 million deal on a five-year deal.

Possibly. And I've seen different ends of the spectrum. $5.150. I've seen $3.60. But regardless, it's a lot more than $16 million on a one-year deal. That's what I was going to say. Money talks. And no matter how much you love an organization and how fun you found baseball,

when you just came off of that surgery and you're someone's going to hand you that over, that's a big decision, man. Yeah, exactly. And that's where, again, I go windhorst. Is it, like, were those deals not out there? Like, is it, again, maybe it's the cynic in me because I've been around sports so long, and I just, I want to believe this is, because it's being presented as. Genuine, yes, it's being presented as, I'm running it back, I'd play for free.

I love this team. And if that's the case, that's amazing. Like, that is amazing, and I love it. And hopefully, Bichette does it next. I'm not even negotiating with anyone else. I'm back. Let's work this out. But that's not usually how it is in sports. It's a business.

Yes, it's unfortunately. It becomes a business very quickly. So I'm just very curious as to how it got to this point. Could be a grand slam win for the Jays. Not disputing that. He's healthy, motivated, gives you 30 great starts next year. It's the greatest opt-in of all time. and what a benefit the Jays have.

And it makes the deal look greater, too, because now you got them for two years. They gave up a really good prospect to get them, but they have this playoff run and all of next year. Great deal, in retrospect, for the Blue Jays. But the wind horse, there's an element of windhorst here. But I get it, because you're sitting there going, why so quickly?

He could have waited a little bit. And why not get more money, noodles? Yeah, that's fair. More so, why just not get more money, even from the Jays? You know, I'm going to opt out. I want to come back and maybe a one-year deal, but I want $20 million. I want $25. You know, if you guys like me so much.

I don't know. I'm curious how Phillips will answer that. We'll catch up with Steve in about 20 minutes. We'll get his take on that. The Leafs are in action tonight. Utah's in town. Have you heard one person call them Mammoth? No.

No. I mean, I watched the broadcast a few times, yes, but it's not really. No one calls them Mammoth. They will be Utah forever. There's never a Mammoth. It's just, there's Utah, Edmonton. Yeah, you're right. Utah versus the Leafs tonight.

The mammoth. Like, you're right. Like, I don't think anybody has really got that into their vocabulary. Until you said it, I didn't even, I forgot that that's what their name was. You just go by Utah, like, which is short and sweet. They're a pretty good team. You know, they played last night, so the Leafs should have a marked advantage here tonight based on home ice. They're arrested.

Utah played last night, the Mammoth played last night, and also, was it O.T. or shootout? Was it O.T.? I turned it off, but it was, I think they, they won't, yeah, which is the, Keller scored an overtime. He scored an overtime. I watched that goal. Yeah, he went five hole. But yeah, so, I mean, the Leaf should be ready, but it's not a trap game, but they, they shouldn't be sleeping on anybody right now with the parody in the league. That's really what we talked about yesterday. And Utah's fast. They can skate.

They've got skill. They got high-end skill. That may not be household names. You know, Keller's been around for a while. You know, Schmalt's been really good. Gunther's really good. Coolie's really good. They've gotten good goaltending, you know, for the most part this year.

Utah's off to a really good start. But you're right. The Leafs should be in a position here where you've got to take advantage of home ice with them playing last night. Yeah. It's just one of those games with the Leafs. You think that they've won two in a row and you'd think, okay, they're still kind of negative chatter about their starts and their second periods and their overall play. Maybe tonight's going to get it together, but it just wouldn't shock me if tonight you're

scratching your head more than you have the whole season because this is kind of what they do. It's kind of the theme of the league right now, though, top or bottom? Like Florida woke up, what are they, in 15th place right now? Dead last. 16th in the east. At what point do they panic? At what point do they panic?

Yeah, but they're two games away from being in third. They're a win away from being in the playoffs. I understand it, but they got pumped last night in Anaheim. Yeah, and I'm good. I'm not just, okay, but here's the thing. I'll give you that. Were they in the playoffs last year? Like, everyone keeps saying, well, there weren't playoff teams last year, so which one is it?

You know, it's the same thing with the Leafs. Utah wasn't in the playoffs, but, you know, and this team wasn't in the playoffs. I think we've got to shift away from what teams were last year, and that might have to include Florida. That's fair. Like, if we're resetting everything, that has to include the champion team, too, right? But I also think we've seen, like, the Florida Panthers have a long record. I'm not worried about the Florida Panthers. They've got a long record of history.

And I hate to interrupt that comment. If we're going to go ahead and reset everything, I don't think your past pedigree has anything to do with anything right now. If you're looking at significant injuries with Barkoff and Kach out for basically the season, I think, and going to three straight Stanley Cup finals, I don't think there's going to be situations where you can toss in a team, whether it be Toronto, Tampa, Florida, and just say, I don't worry about them because they're getting to the playoffs automatically.

And it might not be those three teams, but I think there's some good teams that have that DNA and the benefit of everybody giving them that they're good enough and they have enough talent that they've always gotten there. There's some teams that are going to miss. And that's just the plain truth of it. I just think that they know how to win. They're not worried.

I don't doubt that, but sometimes you're just out of bodies and out of gas And I'm not saying it's going to be Florida. I think there's a couple good teams in the league where in the past we've kind of given them a free road. I don't know if it's L.A. or who it's going to be. But there's going to be some good teams in the past. And I don't know who it's going to be, but they're going to miss. Well, L.A. is different, though, the way that their team is made up. Like, they actually changed the structure of their team.

They got older and slower in the offseason. So I could see. Then that's the GM's fault. 100%. I'm not disagreeing with you. But I, you know, in November, what are we, fifth, I'm not worried about the Florida Panthers. You know, they've had, they're out out east, like their schedule hasn't been great, and they played not a lot of games. But, yeah, I mean, that game, they were ahead in that game against Anaheim last night.

I didn't check to see how many of those were empty netters. Well, yeah, I got carried away late, and they lost 7.3, I believe it was in the end. It was 7.4. It was a 5-4 game. I think there might have been two. But even Bob, like, your stats haven't been great. You know, he's got a sub-900 save percentage. And I think with Florida, I'm not, I think it'd be silly to be at that point where you're selling stock on them.

Dude, I never said I was. No, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm agreeing with you, though, that I, at some point, it's going to have to flip a little. At some point, you're playing with fire the idea that, I, I'm just, I know I'll get it together because Barkov is not coming back. And that's a big shift because Bennett's struggling and Bennett, you know, it's a big difference being insulated and playing 16 minutes against the second pairing and being the top dog.

Lundell, the same thing. We heard it forever. Best third line center in the league, accurate. Is he the best second line center in the league? No, probably not. You know, so it's a jump. It's a big jump. They're missing some defensemen.

Bob's not young. He's played more hockey than anybody in the league. So these are all things that if it goes south, the reasoning actually won't be that hard to understand. You know, it'd be different at Barkov and Kachuk and everyone were healthy, but they're not. And Brian, throw in what we talked about yesterday, the parody. Yeah. What the watering down? What was your words, oh, the dilution of the league?

The dilution and yours was watering down, correct? The dilution of the league. It came with water down for at least three or four years. At least. You're right. You look at just the Eastern Atlantic Division. Like, none of those teams you could say, like, Buffalo has to prove it. I'm sorry, they have to go out and prove it for us.

Same with Detroit, but Detroit's had a nice start. Montreal made the playoffs last year. Ottawa made the playoffs last year. Tampa made the playoffs like Toronto. Boston has to prove it again. But, like, there's not a team that's rebuild. building and giving up. Every general manager in those eight teams believes that their team can make the playoffs.

So you're right, Brian. At what point do you start to go, all right, we're not going to just leapfrog three or four teams that are out and will, the dust will settle and they'll just slide to the bottom. So there is going to be the squashing up. They just, I think the biggest concern for Florida is you can't get left behind. You can't, you know, like you're two wins away from being in, like you say, a playoff spot or whatever, higher up. But you can't get left behind.

One thing we haven't talked about, guys, a lot is, like, age. Like, a lot of the players that we've talked about. Older. Like, yeah, they're older now, man. Like, yeah. Barkoff was in the Freddie the goat draft. Yeah, he's been around a long time. And that's what you're seeing with Montreal.

Who's dancing out there? It's Demidoff. He's 20. That guy's my favorite player in the league right now. He is phenomenal. I officially said you don't ask for stuff anymore. I want a Demadoff hoodie. I want a Demadoff hoodie and XL Demadoff hoodie

with Demadoff on the front because he's a stud. He is so good with the puck, man. He makes those plays in the power play where he's got a slam dunk. Watch this play. He's got a slam dunk, and then he gives it to somebody else for the slam dunk. It's just incredible. That's Kuturoff type stuff right there. It's just awesome to watch.

And it's like he knows, like, the whole building's just watching him, and he knows how to rise in the moment. he's an unbelievable player. They are young and exciting, but as we know with some young players, there is some, as the season goes on, there is some correction, there is some, you know,

adversity that they have to go through. Montreal looks like they're real. Like, and what I mean, I'm respectfully saying that. Like, I'm not taking a shot. And they made the playoffs last year. They look like they're real. Like their goaltending is held up.

Their star players are taking another step. You know, Slavkosky, that top line is really good. But, you know, it's, when I look at this Atlantic, everyone's going to be lumped up. And to your point, Florida's 500 and their eighth spot, you know, on paper. By one point, Buffalo has gotten by one point, games are even. But let's see what this looks like 10 games from now, because it might not look different. It might just look, you know, kind of the same, a little bit of jockeying here or there.

I don't see one, you know, like we talked about the other day, one person running away with it. or one person completely bottoming out unless there's more injuries involved. Like you talked about, and you make a great point. Barkoff and Kachuk, those aren't third and four. These are major pieces that they are missing, and they played a lot of hockey. So it's a fair point. I'm still not worried about them, but it might be got my attention. I think that's the way to put it.

And I would think Paul Maurice is probably sitting there saying we got to, this could be concerning too. You know, if you're on the team, you're playing with a ton of house money. You know, and it's an obvious crutch that they have, but that crutch will not recover anytime soon. Like, Cichuk will likely return in January, but that's still, you know, 20, 25 games away, I think, before he plays. Maybe more. And who knows what he looks like when he returns.

Barkov's not playing. So everything's out of whack. Those are two monsters, like monsters. You take them off any team. And then you parlay what O was saying, a year older, more hockey than anyone's ever played, you know, the starting line where the cup hangover is real. You know, I'm sure it is. And I can only imagine two straight cups. So, yeah, like Florida, you know, they're not, they're not three straight cup finals, you're right, but two straight wins.

Yet it's, it is so condensed. And the thing is with the modern game, like I was thinking more about the watered down stuff last night. What makes Montreal, again, kind of stick out right now is they're running gun, they're fun, they're fast, you know, they play fast, but in this era, like, especially in the regular season, everyone's kind of trying to play the same game, right? Like, there's no more intimidation, there's no more physicality fights, there's no more you go into a building and it's impossible to win there. You know, you can't rely on a goaltender to just, based on the nature of the game and the puck movement now, like a guy,

just is not going to stand on his head every single night. You need tannoms. You need depth. You need speed. Everyone's trying to fly through the neutral zone. There's such a separation between regular season play and playoff play that a lot of it just looks kind of

similar. You know, and it's who's going to be healthy and who's going to get the bounces and that's going to determine what happens a lot of times. Do you remember not too long ago the least were going on a road trip and they were going San Jose, L.A. Anahine St. Louis, and all four of those teams were absolute heater teams.

Yes. Like heater teams where they would beat you up and they'd beat you 7-0 for fun. Murderer's Row. That's what it was called. Murderers Row. And I remember Hayes saying to me, at least we're heading out there, he goes, how many points you think they're going to get in this road trip? And I said, absolutely, they weren't very good.

And I said absolutely zero, and they came home with absolutely zero. But how many of those teams exist anymore? No, I think of, like, a road trip that would absolutely, like, crush you. If you do a Dallas kind of Colorado Vegas circuit right now, that's a tough trip. That's probably your toughest trip out west right now. Like, if you go Winnipeg, Dallas, and maybe throw in a Minnesota if they're playing good and then hit Colorado Vegas, like that's, you got your hands full. But even, I was thinking about it again last night, like, you know, you mentioned those California teams. and maybe there's some nostalgia

and maybe we're getting a little bit carried away. But even like the historical like rivalries or games you couldn't miss. Like I don't know how many of those are in the game right now where it's like, you know, this is a long-term, you know, throwback. But like when Colorado and Detroit were playing the late 90s, it would always be on like a Saturday or a Sunday on ABC or whatever.

And you're like, you've got to watch this game. Like it didn't matter where you were in the league. You had to watch it. And there were certain games where it was like, you know, I think the Leafs when they would play certain teams and they were tough and they'd play Philly or something. You're like, you've got to watch this, man. It's going to get crazy. But, dude, those were back in the day when the third line players would score 35 goals. Yeah, and there'd be fights and there'd be fights in animosity and stuff like that, too.

That was a big part of it. From what you guys had told me, maybe that's Ottawa, Toronto. Yes, for sure. Back in the day. Toronto now, like those are still lively rivalries that I witness around here, regardless. I still think Montreal, Toronto, or Ottawa, Toronto is appointment viewing nowadays because all three of those teams are good teams now. So that's what I would circle on the calendar and go definitely one.

But it's not a bloodbath to your point, Brian. It's not a, no, it's not. And that's the nature of the game right now. And maybe Tampa, Florida, based on their recent history, that would be up there. But even just when you'd have powerhouses, and, you know, Detroit would be playing whoever, and you'd just say, I've got to see who Detroit's playing tonight back in the 90s, or I got to see a Colorado's playing, or who's Dallas plan, or, you know, New Jersey's going to play Philly, and it's Lindrae Stevens tonight.

You know, there were just different things around the game where, you know. Philly Pittsburgh, those were, like they hated each other. Philly Pittsburgh, yeah. And a lot of that is based on the physicality and the craziness of the game back in the day that obviously doesn't exist anymore. All right, at least Utah tonight. We'll get back into that game. We've got the insiders coming up.

We've got Steve Phillips coming up. His take on Shane Bieber opting in and what is next possibly for the Jay's little precursor because we're already into the offseason. So we'll catch up with Steve quickly on that. And we have the Clone Wars. I've got to explain it to you. We're going to do that in about an hour.

I know if it's really complicated, it's going to be true. I don't think it's going to be too complicated. I can't guarantee you it's going to land, but it's worth a shot. I'm fired up for it. It's worth a shot at 530. It's worth a shot. Overdrive continues.

TSN-1050 and on TSN4. Overdrive continues, powered by Fanduel, bringing you everything from the opening line of the final score. Steve Phillips here in a moment. Everyone's raving about the ratings for the World Series, game seven, doing bigger numbers than any game we've seen in 34 years. Seems like every big game that happens. Yeah.

And, you know, a little bit deceptive, if you include the Canadian. audience and the Japanese audience which obviously counts for something internationally but the Canadian audience was what it was because the Jays were playing in it obviously and if they're not in the World Series next year that will

completely fall off a cliff and I would guess that if the Dodgers aren't in the World Series I don't know what that Japanese number looks like you know but it was a perfect storm and it was a great world series. It was incredibly captivating and I think ultimately that's what it comes down to like you look at American TV

they're not going to play the Js on big platforms because the market doesn't count in terms of the ratings down there. But this is proof a Canadian team can get you massive ratings if it's a captivating story. And if it's a great sporting event. No one cares where you're from if it's a great sporting event. And that's precisely what it was. And we're now, what, four days removed?

And I get the impression a lot of people still aren't even talking about it, can't talk about it, don't want to go back in, watch highlights like Blue J fans just still crushed can't do it well that's why I didn't maybe I was too premature on the AI alternate ending yes I don't think people are prepared for that well I apologize but I think it was topical it was it was like that's where I was where I was going absolutely all right here's our TSM baseball insider Steve Phillips how you doing, Steve? Okay.

Okay, we got Steve? I don't know. There's no idea. There he is. Visual. We can see him. He looks great. He looks great.

Looks dialed in, but can't hear anything. All right, it's getting more and more awkward that Steve is just on the camera there. And he can't hear anything. Just awkwardly. He looked solid. Everything was good.

Maybe that was AI Steve Phillips. You ever thought of that? Maybe Joe from the bridge is throwing us a curveball here. Yeah. All right. I was wondering that. Reconnect. Like right before he comes on, does anyone go, can we test your mic?

Yeah. I think so. I'd have to believe that's happening. Yeah. I have to believe it. Just a glitch. It's all good. We'll get him back.

But he did look great. But I think he, here's my prediction. I think that he's going to say there's nothing negative about the Shane Bieber picking up his option, even though you gave it the wind horse. No, let me clarify it. It's not about, it's not even a negative thing. It's more I'm just curious, like why. Why did it happen? Because I know people are going at me, like Blue Jay fans were already saying,

dude, can't you just appreciate it? Yes, of course it's great. Bieber's in the rotation. Well, why don't we just do what the guy on Twitter said, Doogie? He said, instead of you guys talking about it, why don't you get Bieber on? Wow, that's what we're trying to do. Yes, that is precisely what needs to happen. All right, we have Steve over the phone here.

All right, Steve, go ahead. Take us through your thought process here. Shane Bieber opting into his contract, $16 million next year with the Jay. I have to say I was pretty surprised by it I thought Bieber would opt out I think there's a market for him beyond the one year at 16 million and you know he couldn't be offered the qualifying offer because he was traded during the season and so I thought for sure with what we saw the final starts and then in the postseason anyway I mean postseason you know he'd be sure you give up the whole run but you know out of the bullpen but he's he's going to keep getting better the more

removed he is from Tommy John's surgery, two-time Saw Young Award winner, he's an all-star. I mean, for me, this is a coup for the Jays to get him to come back for $16 million. I mean, the reality is I thought he might get a two-year or a three-year deal, even at about $20 million per year, that people were willing to go there with him coming back from the Tommy John surgery.

So I think it's a really good one, you know, that they don't have to make up for as many innings as maybe they had to. you know, Scherzer and Bassett, now you can pick and choose. And I think Eric Lauer for me would be the next guy I try to bring in and sign. I mean, he didn't make a lot last year,

so even if he'd give him a big raise, it's going to be a very reasonable contract. He was more than serviceable for the Js. And so, but this is big. I mean, it's, you know, now to go with Gosman, and you've got to hope that Jose Perrios is better and able to come back and with Trey Savage.

I mean, it's got a chance to be really nice at the front of the rotation. Steve, what's the secret sauce for someone in a management position dealing with the Blue Jays where there is such a positive vibe right now and moving into next year and not getting sucked into thinking, you know, I got to bring that guy back because he's a part of the mix and that guy back because of age and just having the understanding that it was so good but you just can't fall into the trap that the performance will match next year. Like everything will be the same.

How do you deal with that? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, it's an excellent point. It's one that they got caught up in a little bit before, too, thinking, okay, we're going to get people back and they're going to be better. But, you know, what you don't understand is that not everybody's going to have the same season. I mean, you know, I think, I mean, Barger and Nathan Lucas and Ernie Clement and Alejjo Kirk all had kind of career years for themselves. and you know the reality is there will likely be some regression toward the mean and they're going to fall back a little bit not all but some you know and my experience is not everybody stays the same some do some get a little better some get a little worse

and and so I think you have to consider changing it it can't be the same I think the Philadelphia facilities have gotten themselves in trouble because they keep trying to bring back the same cast thinking this time it'll work this time work and you need to have some new energy. You need to have a new feel. You need to have a new flow to the way things go. And so it's not as simple as let's bring back Ball. Let's bring back Beaver. Let's get past it back in the mix. And let's go try to do it again with the same cast of characters. I think you need to have some freshness and something different about it going into the next year. And so I'm cool with Beaver. I think it's a really good one for them. They didn't have them all year. So it's not

exactly the same as all season long. You got a guy who really wants to be there obviously because I think he could have made more if he'd gone out to free agency. But I do think that you can't get caught up in doing the same thing. I think about Theo Epstein when he was with the Red Sox back in the day. He made some really hard decisions. He traded away Nomar Garcia-Para in the year they went to the World Series. He did not bring back Pedro Martinez or Derek Lowe or Johnny Damon. He let them walk.

And it was the right move, despite the fact being a really tough thing to do, where I think in the past teams like the San Francisco Giant, they've said, well, let's bring back the guys who helped us win. Let's reward them. But you're not paying them for what they did. You're paying guys for what you think they're going to do. And if you think they're not going to be as good as they've been or that the market's going to be greater than what you think,

that you do have to walk away and find the next guy ready to blossom and go. And so I think there is some, you know, threading of the needle that the Blues Day's front office is going to do. The good thing is, good news is they've got so much flexibility. I mean, if you want to get an outfielder, legit guy, a Kyle Tucker or whatever, okay, then play barger at third and Clement at second. If you want Bichette back, okay, you can play him at second and go with Jimenez in Clement at third and put barger in the outfield. You know, you've got so many moving pieces. You want a shortstop? Great. You can move them in as the second and keep Clement at third.

And so they really do, they're in a nice spot with that. And getting Bieber in a place keeps them away from being desperate to have to get something done because they've positioned themselves nicely to pick and choose now where they go in the starting rotation. With Steve Phillips, and there really are, you know, a lot of names that are going to be out there, you know, in free agency. Kyle Tucker obviously at the top and that's going to take a lot of money. but Schwarver's going to be out there. Bregman opted out.

He's available. Alonzo opted out. He's going to be available. You know, do you see them, do you see them, what do you see them looking for offensively? Let's begin there. Do you think it's a power bat?

Is it someone, you know, are they as concerned about that? Are they banking on Santon Dare actually having a complete season that's somewhat productive? How do you see them handling that? Because I think what you pointed out is, has to be considered, like regression.

I throw George Springer into that. Springer just had a career year. at 36. I don't know if George is going to do that again, and Kirk and Barger and Lucas and Clement and if Bichette walks, you know, all of a sudden you look offensively and you think where are they going to find some run production? So do you have anyone in particular or any approach you think they might take? Yeah. So for me, I don't love, you know, Santon Dair in the outfield, but you've got Springer who ended up having a D.H. some. And so it sort of eliminates the the everyday DH from your thought process.

So the Swarver guy like that doesn't really fit what they need and where they are right now. But a Kyle Tucker would for me, and Alex Bregman would for me, that if you don't get Bichette back, and I mean, I'd like to try to get Boba Bichette back if I were Ross Atkins and March to Piro, I think the market is going to be robust.

I think anybody that wants a second base and shortstop or third baseman is going to be in on them. I think if Bregman doesn't go back to Boston, Boston's going to be all over him. You know, he's kind of a young guy that would, a young veteran that would blend in with the young core that they have there and, you know, I think grow with them in the future. So I think I could see him as a second baseman or a third baseman going into Boston and the green monster would play well for him. And so, you know, but I think that they need to be open to a big position player. And, and then beyond that, even if it's Bichette, I think, you know, if you can find another guy.

And then what it does is allows you to trade from a position of depth where if you add a third baseman and you add an outfielder, you know, because look, there's talk to Dodgers want Kyle Tucker, right? And so let's not be, let's be greedy here a little bit. You know, you've got some money coming off the books with Bassett and Scherzer and those guys. And for me, you just drew 40,000 a game for, you know, the last, you know, 30-some home games. I think that to be able to afford two big bats, it would be really good for this team. And, you know, whether it's a Tucker or a Bregman or, you know, you're going down the road and trying to find,

you bring back Bichet and you get Tucker, I think you have to be an open mind and consider big things right now. And because doing little things is not going to make up for the possible and likely regression of some of the other players on the rock. So, Steve, we were talking about it yesterday and asked this question to the guys who'll ask it to you. With this long run and what, you know, some of the pieces that are in place, does that make Toronto an attractive place for free agents? You know, we've seen in the past years they've taken big swings at guys, but maybe for a mid-level guy, would they be looking at it and say, you know what, that's a roster I need to be a part of? Or the city was electric, the country, all of that type of stuff. Does that factor into some of the decisions? it does so when i when i uh traded for mike piazza um it made us cool you know it made us

like we were when i was trying to make trades for guys in the new york mess we were on everybody's no trade list nobody wanted to come play for us but when piazza played for us it gave us a sense of credibility of like wow like he's he's good playing there i should really consider that too and i do think that this run to the world series and the engagement of the fans and the players complete buy-in on trying to win for the fan base. And Bieber say, no, I'm going to go back there because I really liked it. Bassett and Scher crying because they, you know, they're going to miss, you know, what was just the greatest experience of their careers.

I do. I think that this postseason in the way that the Toronto City and fan base and franchise plays, how well the players talk about they're treated and taken care of really is that that is something that other players listen to and Shane Bieber's wife and other wives and their comments

and their post on Instagram other wives are watching that because for many of the players who choose not to go to Toronto it's more because their wife is like, I don't know it's a different country for other wives to share a positive experience

it was a long way to other players being open to go to Toronto. Well, we're into the off season. It comes at you quick, man, and there's going to be a lot more over the next month, month and a half. So we look forward to catching up with you again down the road. Thanks for doing this, Steve. You got it, guys. No rest for the weary with this.

It's right back to getting it done. Ross Ack and it's headed to Las Vegas for the general manager's meetings and ready to start building it up the roster again for next year. Can't wait. It'll be great. Thanks, Steve. You got it. Thanks, guys. Steve Phillips, or TSM Baseball Insider.

And Vegas meetings, surprising. I love that. Never in Cincinnati. Couldn't find enough hotels in Cincinnati. Let's go to Vegas. Fire up the private bird to Sinci for the GM meetings. Beautiful in November. Beautiful in November.

Yeah, listen, the Beaver story is, it kind of shocked the world. I think everyone was shocked when they heard that last. night. But now you got Gossman, you Savage, Bieber, Perrios. We'll see what else they do. I think you bring up a really good point. Oh, like you can't get caught up in the emotions of Scherzer, you got to come back.

And Bassett, we've got to have you. And, you know, we got to do what we can to keep these guys. And I know this player's going to hit 30 home runs next year because he was great. That doesn't work that way. Like, what we've learned over the last 12 months is

as much as the 74 win team shocked you, then they came back the next year and won 94 games, predicting what's going to happen in the future is very difficult to do. I'm not suggesting they're going to win 74 games next year, but it's not a lock they win 94. You know, maybe. You can really get sucked into the trap,

is when you actually, if you win it, I've seen so many contracts following the National Hockey League the most, where a team can win, and then it's like you fall in love, there's a four-year deal for you. And you hate that deal in November of the following year. November. Yeah. Because there's just nothing left.

There's nothing there. And you fell in love with what you did, and the player's contributions thinking that you're going to do it for three more years. And you hate the contract by November. It's tough. It's tough to be ruthless like that. Yeah, like Scher came out and said after, he's like, I just don't think. And what I took it as when he said, I just don't think I've thrown my last pitch, I took that as I want to come back here and try this again.

Where if you're the Jays, you've got to look at it and say, Mad Max, blah, blah, blah, blah, like, just you're not doing it. You're not doing it here. Would you be, but you want him at no price. It doesn't matter the price. No, I don't. The money doesn't. The money doesn't matter, though.

Like, they have a budget if, you know, if they pay him $5 million, $10,000, $15 million. If he's in it for the money, though, then they'll probably test him on that. Like, you really want to come back? We have this for you. He's going to get something. Max Scherzer's or he's 41 years. He's not playing for pennies, I don't think. But they may test that. This

year they had to pay him to come up. Now you really want to come back? All right, we can keep you, but we don't have they're not paying him $15 million. I can guarantee you that. That's not, that's not going to happen clearly. But you might test them on that theory. How about they want to come back?

You want five? Yeah, exactly, which is still a lot of money. Would you take him at five? Like, I, I feel like I would. I don't know. Like, you're just like done with him like it's just one more year where he's got to get through a full season and you know that's not going to happen that's true it's it's yeah i mean he's the conundrum because bassett too man and bassett's what is bassett got left in the tank i don't know is he a starter is he a fifth starter is he a bullpen guy in that kind of middle relief type situation but

maybe there's a better guy out there somebody that's 25 years old ideally that could be the case that could be the case all right uh leaps in action tonight some leaps news coming out we'll tell you about that next. All right, so the Leaves are in action tonight, and Easton will not be in the lineup because he has been assigned to the Toronto Marley's and Scott Lotton has been activated from the IR.

Got bodies, man. They had to get rid of a body, and that is the place for him to go and play and develop Hayes, but don't kid yourself, that's a devastating blow to the kid. Because it seems like the kid that was dominating like that, and is a first-round

pick, you make hay in the the NHL and you're playing in the NHL. That seems like the next spot for you. And I just know from my days all the high picks that's like when you're the guy that doesn't really step in and you're seeing guys with them in the second round, third round, like the kid for Pittsburgh. What's this name, Brindle? Kindle, yeah.

Nobody had Kindle. Nobody talked about Kindle over Easton, you know what I mean? But Kindle might not be there by Christmas too. Oh, you never know. I get it. I get it. But it's just you start looking around. like, you know.

Let's talk about it at 5 because there's lots to unpack. Okay, you got lots to unpack, all right. We'll continue with this. Easton Cowan on his way to the Marley. Scott Lawton activated, we'll be playing tonight. Leaves Mammoth tonight, the Mammoth are in town, and we've got to explain it. I don't think it's overly complicated.

I think you guys are going to be fine with this. It better be simple. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on the TSN app. You've been listening to Overdrive, powered by Fan duel. Fan duel, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. Seasoned gamer, or just video game curious, this weekend gaming is the podcast for you. We break down the latest in the world of video games, from basics to beyond.

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