OverDrive - OverDrive - October 14, 2025 - Hour 1 - Steve Phillips

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

Join Bryan Hayes, Jeff O'Neill and Jamie McLennan for Hour 1 on OverDrive! The guys discuss the Blue Jays down in the ALCS against the Mariners and what has led to the defeats in the series, the Maple Leafs' inconsistency against the Red Wings, the team moving from the Core Four era and Easton Cowan's solid debut with the team. TSN Baseball Insider Steve Phillips joins to discuss the Blue Jays' losing start to the ALCS, if Kevin Gausman and Trey Yesavage should have been removed and Vladimir Guerrero Jr.'s struggles and Lane Hutson's contract extension with the Canadiens and the value of the deal.

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This hour of overdrive is powered by Fandool. Fan Duel, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. Overdrive, Off and Running. TSN 1050 on the TSN app, your home smart speaker, up on TSN4. Brian Hayes, The O'Dog, Jeff O'Neill, Jamie Noodles, McClennon. It's going on. What's going on? Are you still going to use the driver's seat terminology, or is that one kind of out the window for a little bit?

I'm glad you brought that up. Yes. Because I'm in the press box last night, and the Jays are getting pumped. And over my left shoulder, I just hear someone kind of whisper down. He just goes, Hayes, Hayes. And I look back, and it's Griff. And he goes, I don't think the Jays are in the driver's seat anymore. Are you serious?

Yeah, I'm like, you're right, Griff. They're definitely not. When did you say that, though? You said that at the end. He's been saying it every day ever since the Jays made the playoffs. Okay, but yes, they beat and handily beat the Yankees. But I haven't heard you say driver's seat since they started playing Seattle. Now, that just started out of the weekend, though.

That's the thing, man. Yeah, they're not, I can confirm the Jays are not in the driver's seat. No. They're not. One thing in watching it, did they take them out too early? Or was it fine? You were fine. I was fine with the Savage coming out.

I did not like Gosman the game before. Right. they just they have this formula yeah they have a formula whether it's a certain amount outs 15 16 17 outs or a certain amount of pitches and generally it coincides and it did with both starts for gosman it was the exact same thing he gave them 16 outs in game one I think he gave him a couple rotations around and yeah exactly 76 pitches 75 pitches and then they go into galaxy brain we're going to bring this guy in for an out that guy's coming in for two that guy's going to come in for three yeah and

they pulled them at the wrong time, but again, much like the Burrios to Kikuchi scenario, it didn't matter because the offense, the bats were ice cold. They got two hit in game one. I can't tell you how different the feeling was. I say this a lot. Like, I've never experienced anything like it. The party in game one and two with the Yankees was a music festival. It was crazy.

The dome was open. The weather was beautiful. They were hit in home runs. they were crushing the Yankees. It was just 50,000 people going nuts for three hours. Especially since Seattle got in there at like midnight on Saturday, late, delay after playing 15 innings. And you would think the Jays would just pump them. And they look like they just didn't miss a beat.

They look fresh. They look fresh as a daisy, man. Seattle looked great. But credit words, too, Seattle's a really good team. And they came in and they fed the Jays their lunch. Yeah. But it's Sunday night, long weekend, 8 p.m. starts. So everyone's been downtown or family events.

It was crazy to start the game. When Springer hit that home run, I'm like, this is it. We're just going to do this again. They're going to crush this team. And then they had what one hit after that? They had one more hit the rest of the game. No more runs. People are leaving the stadium.

It's quiet. It was bare empty. I'm watching the finish of that game last night. People had left. They were out of there. After the eighth inning, that place cleared out. It looked as if the Guardians were in town, middle of May. Yeah.

That was the ninth inning. It was the Guardians on May 12th. Wow. And it was a game two of the ALCS. Seattle has some players. That Morgan Wallen look alike. I'm glad you bring that up because Cal Raleigh... He looks exactly like Morgan Wallen.

He looks like a pudgyer, older brother of Morgan Wallen. What's the dumper look like? It's a dumper, isn't it? There's another guy. Luca. He looks kind of like off-season Luca a little bit, or Lucas' older brother. That's, Hedge brought that up. Okay. Because Hedge is like, what about

Luca? Because we're having these chats. I'm like, he looks like Morgan Wallen. And he looks exactly like him. Yeah. With the stash, he's clean cut, the stash. The dumpers massive, dude. Yeah. Well, he's up, like, way down the third baseline, almost in left field. And this thing, you can see him walking. Yeah, he's that guy.

He's got a great grinder body. Yeah, for sure. And he is behind the plate. I can't, it's so impressive watching him play. Because nothing gets past him. Pop flies all over the place. He's getting up. He's running down balls. You know, Jays are laying down, bonscy's chasing him.

Yeah. And all he does is catch and hit bombs. Yeah. Dude, anything goes near the middle of the plate. That guy is just a bulture and he goes nuts on it, doesn't he? Yeah, he does. His Jack, like, in game one, I thought he dragged it out of the dirt. Like that was, it was a low pitch and he

He can play, man That's why he's likely the MVP And Polanco's killing him through two games And dude, that guy's a monster Right from the last game in the previous series Against Detroit into this one He's killing them single-handed Killing him.

Everything. Polanco's killing them through two games And it's only two games It is two games So let me ask you this thing. Dude, we hang on a second We said it about the Yankees and the Jays We said the Js are just flat out better for right now

Seattle is just flat out better and it looks that way like we talk about the difficulty of getting on the bird going into I hate 2-3-2 by the way for this exact reason yes hate it

you're down 02 flying across the country for a three pack against a team that just dummied you where is your morale out and you know that they're saying in the room we're not getting on the bird going back we've got to get two of three here in our city that's what they're saying

But if you had told me on Friday afternoon, Jays would be down 02 or the Leafs lost two to Detroit in regulation, what would have been more realistic for you? Because I'd probably say Leafs because... I'd have a difficult time picking one. Yeah, I mean, I would have figured the Leafs. I thought split for both. Yeah, for sure.

And especially the Leafs are up to nothing on Saturday night. Right. In the driver's scene against a wounded team. The team that was, had been pulled up by the coach and lost five more. Moral is down. And again, the Jay's same thing, game one, Springer hits that home run and you're like,

driver's seat, here we go. Yeah. I did not see the Jay's getting kind of demoralized the way they did. Right. Like, it's not shocking that any team loses two in a row. Right. But game one was really tough. Game two was awful.

They got pumped last night. Like, they got pumped last night. Yeah, it was a tough watch. That was really tough. You lose 10-3 at home in a borderline must-win game. Very demoralizing. The leaves. I don't think they've played you.

They have not played well at all. I don't care how many shots they had on goal yesterday. Completely irrelevant to me. The way they look, the way they're defending, how slow they look at different times, the guy's making mistakes, veteran guys. Right. You look at that JVR goal from last night.

Carlo fumbles himself at the blue line. JVR goes down, and it's like, I don't know why, like, sooner or later, I'm not a defenseman, but you just got to make a play on a guy. And Morgan Riley was right level with him. I was like, throw a poke check, throw a poke check. Yes. Borsome. Riley did not.

This is just a good play. That's a great play. Put it under the bar. That's a beautiful shot. This angle here shows you how he got it up. Bar down. Like, that's a pretty good shot. But this play right here, it's like Moe gets even with them.

It's like, sooner or later you've got to pressure him to do something, and he just holds onto it and roofs it under the bar. It's like, no matter who in that league, you give time to like that, they're going to put it in the net. Yeah. I, you see, like, JBR kind of sold like he was going to throw it back, because that was kind of, it was a partial breakway, but there was a trailer.

I don't know if that was Casper. I can't remember who that was coming. But you see Mo kind of stutter step going, okay, I'm going to take the pass, let the goalie take the shot. But, like, that's the one thing, too. I was telling you off air, like Stolars, he's playing, like he doesn't get these spaced out starts. Like, it's every night for you. You're playing.

And now, Primo's playing tonight. But he doesn't get a start. And then it's a week off. You get the psych yourself up, get ready. Like, you know, he's going to have a slight market correction as well. Not everything's going to be 935 save percentage. But I think Stolars is a product of the team in front of them. They all, and the whole league is sloppy right now.

Sloppy. but the Leafs look sloppy and they've got to find a way to get back on the rails here both teams played yesterday but they're in their own building I'm expecting a response against Nashville well you would think so yeah the urgency needs to arrive right like what I think makes it more difficult for Leaf fans is they look at Florida and their start yeah it's like they've been to three cup finals in a row and why are they in Raring to go Barkov's out Kachs out they have all the reason in the world

to say, wake us up in November and we'll snap out of it. And they're just smoking teams. And Elise are here, haven't won anything, lost players, bit of a weird camp. And they come out with looking like they have a complete lack of urgency. And that's what

is concerning. The Js are a completely different story. The Js aren't lacking urgency. They're in the playoffs. They're just not producing. They can't hit. All of a sudden, their bats have gone cold. Their bullpen arms, whoever Schneider goes to right now is jamming him. Whoever he's choosing is coming out and can't get out of jams. Craig Baroube, like we talked about the Todd McClellan speech,

Berube is not far off that, and he shouldn't be far off that. I get it's early and it's a veteran team. They're a very veteran team, but it's a tough division. And you're three games in and you haven't looked very good. And your best players, like Baroube called out Willie last night and he should. Neelander's been awful through three games. Yeah, their top three forwards, haven't got scored a goal on a goalie.

Right, yeah, exactly. Matthew's empty net, Willie empty net. Yeah. And Tavaros is just kind of out there, and he and Neelander aren't connecting. It's ugly through three games. If I'm Barube,

I want to show William Nealander, Brad Marchand clip saying, why is this guy buzzing around, showing leadership, being the guy with other guys injured, and I have to worry about your intensity and why you're not shooting the puck and why you're not getting to the inside?

Why is that even a thing? it's got to be frustrating and sooner or later and Chief has talked a lot about how this guy's got more and there's still more for him to do sooner or later you just think are you ever going to do it? We're not talking a little stretch here. It's been around a long time man.

Well that's it. It's veteran guys. It's Nealander. It's Morgan Riley making mistake. You can't ice that puck last night. Like it's just a crazy icing and it burns them and it burns the team. He's been in the league 13 years. You know, you can't ice that. can't make that play. It's just, again, it's one thing

if Easton Cowan makes a play, you say, all right, he's rookies, figuring this thing out. A fourth line guy makes a play. These are their best players who they're looking at. And again, with Austin, it's, yes, he's got a lot of shots, and he hit the crossbar on Saturday. You got to score.

And he got to play with some emotion. Right. You know, there's been some scrums early in the season where he's just kind of kind of gliding in. How's everyone doing? It's like, man, you're the captain. here. Everyone's looking at you. Marner's gone. Yeah. Like Mitch is gone and everyone's wondering what's it going to look like here.

I think I expect more out of him tonight too. I don't think it's awful, but up front it almost looks like three Mitches have laughed at him. You know what I mean? It's just like a big hole, right? I mean, the kid is getting an opportunity and it's so difficult because I had to do it. I played with

Brendan Shanahan and Nelson Emerson as a 20-year-old and you barely know what's going on. Getting from A to B, flights, travel, practice schedule. And then you've got to go on the ice and say, I'm playing with a 50 goal score in Shanahan. I've got to get him the puck. I've got to be sound responsible in your own zone.

And then you're playing against the best deep pair from the other team as a 20-year-old. Not easy, man, for Easton Cowan or anybody to do that at that level. It's not. And there was lots of praise for him last night, and rightfully so. But if that's the only storyline you're dragging out, listen, Cam Talbot made some great sense. Yes, Taubu was great. Don't get me wrong.

Like, that could have easily been. been. There was a getting goalie element to it. Yeah, of course. They, at least yeah, they were in that game. They didn't get out played. There was lots of opportunity to grab that game. Saturday was way worse. Exactly. They were not good Saturdays. And they look, as the game went on,

they looked slower. You know, Detroit got it going and got their speed game going. But last night it was like Detroit kind of like slowed the game down because they're like, hey, we don't really have our A stuff. We're going to hang in here and hope that guy makes some saves. And they kind of did. And then they get one near the

end, which is, you know, seeing eye shot, whatever, you want to call it. It's unlucky bounce. It goes off Matthews. But you could just feel something coming. Like you could feel, like, I was like, oh, it's going to be overtime and get a point out of it. Maybe they get a second point. And then all of a sudden that happens.

And now you've lost two in regulation. They played Detroit twice in the preseason. I think they lost both games, didn't they? I think they. They definitely did. Yeah, I can't remember what the... Because Ryan left went off where they lost... Reimer was, anyway, the preseason means nothing.

But the point being is Detroit is a team that you have to, you're in that, that's a divisional game. You got to keep these guys down. Like that's, you know, there's, I mean, Buffalo is a different story. They're o' and threes. Buffalo is probably not in, you know, a consideration right now. In that consideration right now. But you look at the news at Ottawa, Brady could chuck out for a long period of time.

At least a month. It's a big hit. And they've lost, there, what are they one and two, I believe, to start the year? Tampa has been kind of just okay. first game yesterday. Yeah, it's like Florida's been the pay score. Boston's been decent, you know, pretty soft schedule, but Boston might be better this

year. The HABs are feeling great. The HABs just got Lane Hudson signed and their management sticking around for the next five years and they've got their home opener tonight, I believe it is. And yeah, I mean, again, it comes at you quick. Yes, it's October. Yes, it's only three games.

That goes without saying. You always talk about the divisions, Hayes, and you say the teams that get in, it's usually off the start and the Leafs usually they bought they bumble a little bit off the start and then they put a you got to put that chunk together that gets yourself into the playoffs right where you're just on a heater and it's like not that it's smooth sailing cruising after that but you got to put that chunk together and if you don't and you're just up and down and be bopping around you're going to have a difficult time man I don't care what your team is you need to streak that that separates you from the

pack and right now they look like a team that's going to be in the pack the whole year they've got to elevate and how do you elevate your top players Well, and that's a big part of it. And that's where, again, I think the frustration is, last time we saw you, it was as embarrassing as it can get. Let's call it what it is, you know, game seven against Florida. And then you have a turnover off season.

Like, Marner has a huge part of their identity for a decade. And that's kind of hanging on you. And there's questions, okay, what is Matthews going to look like now that he's healthy? What do you look like with Tavar's coming back? He stuck around, he got his deal. How does he look as he gets older? You're bringing all your defense back, but they're not young. Right.

You know, okay, Joseph Wall's not around. That's going to be different for you. There was an opportunity for them that they did not relish through three games. They might through 10. Maybe through 10, there's 7 and 3, and you say they actually did. But through three games, when a lot of people have their eyes on the leaves, I think in a different fashion than they have in a long time, because it was very routine for them to make the playoffs for like a decade.

Like it was just, that was what they were going to do. I think people have their eyes on them, like, all right, what's this going to look like here? How's this going to feel? And it's three games, but I think the doubters are thinking, okay, I might be emboldened with my doubting. Because I don't know what they're going to be. I'm not sure how they're going to, you know, fulfill some of the holes that have been left behind or them being a year old or how do they stay fresh? You know, how do they show that they have some speed? If you're going to be big, that's great.

But do you play big? Right. Or are you just big? Yeah. Especially with the 100 points going out the door, and they talked about it. They got a bunch of different faces instead of the – they wanted to get rid of the core four talk. Well, that's fine and everything, but the core four got them into the playoffs every year. And these new faces, some of them need to pick it up a little bit if they're going to chip in and do it by committee.

Big time. Because frankly, some of them aren't doing it. Well, and with the core four, again, I understand why it was frustrating for Barube, especially from playoff time and a long-time hockey guy that just wants one for all for one. But the four were so talented. And three of them are still here. Let's clarify that. And Nyes is still here.

And he's not Marner, but he's an immensely talented player. But the rest of the team kind of operated in a certain way. They were supposed to play a certain system and be tough. And there's a scrum. Everyone get in there. And those four, they have their own identity, which have been established for a long time. They're not going to get in scrums. They're not going to hit.

They're not going to fight. That's not how they're going to play. but they're affecting the scoreboard exactly they're going to score you know 180 goals combined and all these different points now you're down one and two of the three think matthews has been okay he's been fine yeah yeah but two of the three left over have not shown up yet in the season no so again if it's going to be a core three or if you want them all to blend in then those guys have to start playing a little bit differently and i'm not going to hold my breath

on that like they're willy's not coming in dropping his gloves because someone one got hit. A lot of Lee fans, again, watching last night, Cowan, there was some liberties taken on him. Matthews didn't do anything, but that's not who he is. Like, I'm not waiting for him. He's not going to come flying in. He's not, it's not who he is. Just not, just because Marner's not

here, he's not, they're not going to blend together and be the Panthers. That's not how they operate. That's not their DNA. I think it also, maybe I'm wrong, but it might have hit a nerve with Lee fans. That was Benny Chirot that was given it to... I was on Saturday. It came over

and kind of grabbed them. You know, like, that's the guy who we had cross-checking gate, wasn't it? Because Chirot was with who? Well, he was with Montreal. Montreal in the bubble where he was cross-checking Matthews. Is he the one that horse-collared?

Yes, and Matthews was laughing. Like, doing the fake laugh out. That's the first thing I saw. When I was watching that, I was like, okay, that's Chirot. Like, that's the guy who, you know, there's a history there. This guy's going after you a few times.

You know, again, it's game three or game two. But still, pop them in the head. Give him a little. Yeah. He's not going to drive. his gloves with Austin Matthews. But that knows better than that. I don't know if you thought that. I know better than that asking for the pop in the head.

That's not going to happen. No, I get it. And that's what I'm expressing. Like, we're not going to do this all year. It's not going to be scrum lurking. Oh, he didn't go in there. Right. It's not going to happen.

But then as a result, if your best players are going to play the same way they have forever, there's only so much you can expect if you're Burubei to be like, well, we're getting rid of the core four identity. Well, I don't think you are. I mean, it's just still kind of. core four than everyone else, only it's a core of three now. Yeah. And they still got to bring what they can bring. Like if you're not

going to bring all those other elements, you got to score. You got to score. You got to put up points. Got to be a difference maker. Yeah. Absolutely. And again, the winning goal, I'm lucky, but Riley's on the ice. Matthew's on the ice. Nealander on the ice. Yeah. And you lose a point last night. You got Nashville tonight. And Caden primo,

I'm curious to see what he looks like. Yeah. I mean... Like, it's a big opportunity for him. It really is. And it's hard for me to judge him because when you look at it you watched him play in Montreal they were in a rebuild when is his last game in the NHL we'll have to look that up

because I don't but I don't have an answer for either I don't know if it was last year or the previous year but there was a game I watched him he made 50 saves in Montreal and stole a game but every other game I watch him he'd get hung out to dry and wasn't very good now unfortunately he was a young goaltender with a high prospect in Montreal square in the middle of a rebuild

So I'm curious to see how he's going to play with a team that has a solid decor that has structure in front of him, veteran team. That's the difference. Like I want to give him a clean slate and say, that's not the primo I watched in Montreal. That was a completely different team. He's now in an opportunity where it's supposed to be a very good team on home ice, you know, see what you got type of thing. Yeah, let's see what he's got. You know how goalies can just pop up and just have success. in a certain mark at the second or third time around.

That's what you're looking for. You're hoping for. And lost in all of this, at some point, even if he establishes himself, Joseph Wall is coming back. I would have to believe that he's coming back at some point. If it's a couple weeks from now, a month from now,

now I imagine that decision will be made by management, but if Primo settles in and plays very well, you're going to have decisions to be made, Joseph Wall coming back at some point. At some point. I hope that he's you know, doing great. Yeah, I mean, we haven't, you haven't heard a lot, but it does,

you know, you've got to hope that he returns at some point for sure. Jugi says December 1st, 2024. Okay. So less than a year ago he was playing, but that was early in the year when the haves were still fighting it. Like they came on large in the second half. They went on a heater.

Dolbich was a big part of that. Remember he got called up, and then obviously Montembow was going to be a part of it. All right, Steve Phillips coming up this hour on what happened with the Jay's the last two games. and how do you paint a positive picture now going to Seattle? And last night, the Brewers almost came back and won that game. It was a low-scoring game.

The Dodgers found away, though. The Dodgers up won nothing. Game two tonight in Milwaukee. They are so dangerous. So we'll catch up with Steve and get his take on the first two games of the ALCS and TEP game two of the NLCS. And, of course, we got Mike Johnson coming up, leaves predators on TSN tonight. So Johnny coming up from the rink, he'll join us just after 5 o'clock. Overdrive continues.

TSN 1050 and on TSN4. All right, overdrive continues. Brought you by Fanduel, bringing you more ways to play your game, your way. So yesterday was going to be a great day because the Leafs were playing and the Jays were playing

and the Bills were playing. There's a lot of people in this town that love all three of those teams. The Bills weren't like what's going on there. They did not look good last night. I was at the Jays. It's going to do his yearly, beginning of the year, Super Bowl favorites. It's their year to

what the hell are these guys all about? There's a lot of weird things going on in the NFL. Ravens are a mess. Your buddy there, Al's brother, was like, should have known it. They can't play under the lights. What a comment from him. Al's brother. He's so outrageous.

They can't play under the lights. So arrogant right now. But deservedly so, picking winners. You know, Hayes and bro, we're on fire right now. What a Mick with the Bears last night. A Chiefs win. That was a tough one. But, yeah, yesterday was, yesterday was

tough. It was a tough day if you're a local sports fan. The bills, like, that's not square on Josh Allen, right? Like, he doesn't look good, though. But he hasn't quite been himself. Right. The last two games, like New England had him looking very squirrely. And same thing with

Atlanta last night. And he shrugged it off pretty casually. He's like, nah, just got to get better and do this. and do that? It's like he expects this little blip and then they just get back on form and they get back to it. Yeah, he was pretty casual about it. He wasn't freaking out at all. No. They have a buy week, right? So they've got two weeks to get their act together. They're going to be fine. Yeah, they're fine. I'm not worried about the bills. I think they're going to be fine. Right. By New England's better than I thought they'd be. They're four and two.

They're technically leading the AFC East right now. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, did you see that one coming at the start of the year? No, not necessarily. I thought they'd be better, but Drake May looks good. You know, Drake May looks good, and Vrable's, a pretty good coach, pretty good inspiring coach, you know, like there's X's and O's guys, and then there's raw, raw guys. He's like your classic

raw, raw guy. Didn't the guy that replaced Brable just get gassed yesterday? Tennessee. Gassed. That quickly into the year. See you later. Is Miami's coach on thin ice too? Has to be after the two of comments where he said people are showing up late, the meetings, or not even

even coming to me like how do you say that publicly yeah i thought macdaniel was going to get fired before tua was done on the podium me too i'm like there's no way that a guy can come out and say that i don't know what i think of tua for saying that out loud but i guess if you just had enough you've had enough that's kind of what it looks like like two is almost saying this guy's killing me yeah i got to get us he's killing all those who might have stood up and and taken it for the whole team and said, this is how we feel. Right. This guy's got to go. Yeah, it's too, and it's not like he's going to the all pro this year.

But it's still, it's... I know. It's weird. Like, there's just a lot of weird stuff going on in sports. A lot of weird stuff going on out there. But the Jays, they can't... Their bats are ice cold. Like, there's no other way to put it. And Snyder said it after the game last night. Like, they've got to start slugging again. They have one home run in the series.

and it's particularly highlighted when Seattle is mashing like they did yesterday. Seattle's hitting home runs and they're hitting doubles. Their pitchers are pitching. And they're pitching the Jays very well. But the Jays just, they're at bats, there's nothing. And Vladie threw two games, no hits. Dude, he's doing that thing. Remember when I talked about in the Yankee series?

He's not like, he's just smashing down on it. And these rounders, and it's like against the Yankees, he was like undercutting it and they were flying. out of the ballpark. He's putting balls in play. I don't believe he struck out yet. Like, so it's not, he's putting balls in play. The first game in particular, he hit a couple of really,

you know, hard hit line drives. But it's not the divisional series anymore. Yeah. And you punked the Yankees and you goofed on the Yankees, your job's not done. Yeah, exactly. He's got to come a lot. He's got to be better. He just hasn't been good enough through two games. Yeah. Here's

Steve Phillips or TSN Baseball Insider. What sticks out to you, Steve, in particular? You look back on the Blue Jays, the first two games. Like, what was the main reason that they're down O2 flying to Seattle? Yeah, I think certainly the offense. I mean, this is a team that scored 34 runs in four games against the Yankees. And, you know, in game one, they did hit some balls hard right at people. And look, they're facing really good pitchers, but, you know, you had a chance to keep the

Mariners down on the mat. I mean, they were tired. They were starting Bryce Miller on short rest. Logan Gilbert on short rest. Like there's an advantage going into that. They've flown back and forth from Seattle to Detroit to Seattle to Toronto. And they played loose and came out swinging. And, you know, Jay's hit some line drives that people just couldn't get anything going. And so, and then in game two, I mean, you know, the pitching wasn't what it had been. Give the Mariner's credit for that, but

the Jay's, you know, who knows what happens if a Rosarana has struck out in the first inning, right? He thought he was struck out, and Doug Edding's the home plate umpire, called it a ball, and then he hits him with a pitch, and then, you know, a walk at a home run, and you're down 3-0, and then, you know, you do muster

the offense to come back, but, you know, how much can you expect to get off of a really good pitching staff in a very good bullpen that they have there in Seattle? So, you know, it's one that that, you know, it's a little disappointing, and this is a big hole. It's going to be really tough to dig out of.

Teams have done it, but they're going to have to turn on a dime, and it just did not feel good after the first two games. Steve, where are you at with taking Gosman out when he came out, and same thing with your Savage yesterday? Yeah, so I would not have taken Gosman out when he did. You know, that was just, you know, Gosman had gave up a hit on the fastball, to Raleigh in the first inning. And Raleigh had been six for 11 against him.

Three home runs with three home runs that all come on the fastball. And so in the second at bat, he ends up throwing exclusively splits. And, you know, the split finger struck out Raleigh. Then at that next at bat, he started him off with a split finger. Then he came with a fastball out of the zone, show me pitch, and they threw another split.

At that point, Rale's like, I'm going to look for the split. Like, he's not going to throw me another fastball. I kill his fastball. And sure enough, he went down and hit the split. But that was just baseball stuff, right? It was, you know, Raleigh, he did a good pitch. It was down. He went down and scooped it out of the park.

Then the walk, and I get the walk, maybe John Snyder, but I don't go to the bullpen right there with Little. And then, you know, once they wild pitched Julio Rodriguez the second, then I walk Polanco. Polanco from the right side is better than he is from the left side and so you walk Polanco and then you face Nader with two outside runners on first and second

I would never have pissed the Polanco there and so I wouldn't have taken out Gosman and then once you did I would have walked Polanco after the wild pitch that sent Rodriguez the second Yeah it's amazing how quickly it can turn after that bullpin game game four Schneider's on top of the world

Vladdy's on top of the world and now Schneider's getting cooked for every decision he makes and Vladdy doesn't have a hit through two games. Who do you think is getting cooked more, though? Probably Vladdy? It's probably Schneider. It probably is because it's the easy thing to do. Everyone hates on the manager. And the way he walks out to the mound and he was doing it so much, people were like, stop it. Right. And he made mistakes. Like what Steve just said is spot on. He made mistakes. But for me, it should be Vladdy. Like your job's not done. I get, you have ebbs

and flows and maybe you were due for a game or whatever. But He came up, the first three times he came up yesterday, Steve, he had runners on, and he couldn't cash any of them. And he's got to be better than what he's been through two games. It comes at you quick, man. It's not the regular season where you can say it had a great week, and I had a down week. You just don't have time for that. Too much at stake.

Yeah, Vlad, man, he was dancing on the grave of the Yankees, and now through two games, he just hasn't been good enough. Yeah, I see the same thing, though, you guys do, that he's, that swing that he takes where he sort of swings down on. it. And that's where he doesn't trust himself to stay back. And so he gets out in between and when you do that, it changes

the bat path when you swing it. And so you can only hit it hard on the ground. I would rather him swing and miss, but hunting the bottle of baseball, then to get that halfway swing where he's going to hit a hard ground ball to third. You know, I'd rather him try to drive

it, and he can get there. It's a confidence thing, and it's trusting, and you know, and he's just back, connects to the If he has a good first at bat, then the next time he's going to be more comfortable to sort of wait back on it. If they've got a lead, it would be more comfortable to wait back on it where he doesn't feel the pressure like, I have to, I have to, I have to. But that's what these games are right now, right? The high pressure moments, how do you slow the game down, how do you slow your heartbeat,

how do you be the same player you are in August on an August 19th game against Kansas City, where you're just out there playing as you are in a playoff game? heartbeat doesn't change, the approach doesn't change, and it's not easy to do, and so, but guys can get locked in on that, and you've got to hope that this offense gets going quickly with the game three tomorrow.

How do they start feeling good about themselves, Steve? I mean, this Seattle team wheeled in here at midnight, playing late, probably hung over, and they showed up and dummy these guys. Like, how difficult it will, you talk about Vladdy's starting to feel comfortable, the whole team to feel good about themselves come game

time in Seattle? Yeah. So, I mean, listen, remember the loss of the Yankees in that game three where it felt like the series had completely flipped the script, right? And, you know, it felt like, oh, man, they're not ever going to come back. It was a, there's going to be a bullpen day on game four. It felt like the series had completely turned around. And the Jace just came out and played and won the game. And so they can do that. And, you know, it's in there to do it. I think certainly Bieber is going to be very important. And look, the bottom line is this. teams that out homer the other are 18 and 4 in the postseason. So the team that out homer is the other team, they're 18 and four. So you've got to keep the ball in the ballpark, and you've got to get somebody to knock it out of the ballpark. And so, you know, that's got to be the way that they go. And, you know, you can't shoot yourself in the foot.

This is one of the best defensive teams in baseball. And look, Jim and has tried to make a great play yesterday. Got an error on it, but it hurt. It hurt, right? They've got the runner on second. then they walk Raleigh and then Polanco hits the home run and you know then bar show I think with the roof open there was some wins and I think he misplayed the fly ball to center that normally I think he would play and make a play on it that hit off the wall

and so those are things that that cost you bases base runners and out in playoff games and the good teams make you pay for it yeah they do even Kirk looked tired last night like Kirk looked tired man and and you shouldn't be like yes it's a long season, but they've had time off. Seattle was the one that had to go five and then fly across the country. So day off today, they fly to Seattle, back at it tomorrow. You mentioned Bieber who didn't have the greatest start. Clearly, game three against the Yankees, ultimately it did matter because they won that series. To me, the bats obviously have to come alive, but if they don't, you got to do what the Dodgers did last night. If you got to win one-nothing,

you got to win one-nothing. He needs a gem. Exactly. Like for me, Steve, as much as I look at the bats collectively. I look at Beaver and it'd be great if they could do what they did against the Yankees. They got on the board quickly against New York. Every game, every game they showed up and said runs are going up, first inning. But this Seattle team looks like they're saying, that's not

happening against us. That's definitely a part of it. And Seattle, I think, feels confident that they can crawl back into the game. But if the Jays get runs on the board early, Beaver's got to have himself a night. And I'm not, I don't believe Schneider and Walker will get away from this practice of

allowing them to go 75 pitches and then you're out. But again, look at Snell last night. Like, if Bieber is great, why would you possibly take him out tomorrow? I know we're forecasting already, but you can speak on what you expect out of him. But you're 100% right. I mean, at this point, it's not about what anybody shows you during the regular season. Is there a single pitcher that you think has a hot hand coming out of the bullpen right now? No.

And does, right, right? And so do any of them make you more comfortable to get through the sixth inning or into the seventh inning than Shane Bieber? If he's pitching well, and the answer is no. And here's the thing, it may cost you the game going about it that way, but that's really the way I think he has to manage right now, especially, you know, taking a Gossby out. Like, he's your ace. And he was pitching an excellent ballgame. In a solo home run for Cal Raleigh does not mean that you're losing it. it means that Cal Raleigh did you

what he did 61 other times this year so okay you just regroup and you go get them and so I think that they really do need even if the offense is there they need Beaver to be good because the only way the bullpen is going to be good

is if you keep them in the bullpen for as much as you can do not let them keep getting looks at them just like we talk about how starting pitchers face the lineup the third time through the lineup right where the numbers spike for starting pitchers. It's actually the same thing for relievers.

The third time relievers see the same lineup. Their numbers spike exponentially. And so for the Js, not only do they need Beaver to give them a great start, they need their bullpen to not be used so they don't give so many looks so that there's something fresh and new and rested and different when they do finally get the game. Great stuff, Steve. Enjoy the game tonight and enjoy game three tomorrow. We'll do it later in the week.

All right, thank you guys. There is, Steve Phillips, our TSM Baseball Insider. Another storyline that ultimately likely didn't matter in the end was Santander pulls a shoot right before the game. Soar back, what was it like? Yes, sore back. Back stiffness or tightness. It must drive them crazy.

Like he hasn't been here all year, and the back has not been the problem. You're in the lineup. You're on the team because basically they paid him that much. much money. Right. He has potential in Bichette's too hurt to go. And then right before the game, seemingly, ah, bad back. But didn't he have a helmet and a bat later in the game?

I thought I saw him. I don't know. I was there. I never saw him like warming up or anything. Which was weird. Helmin and a bat, what, just sitting? I don't know. Possibly going to go in.

Yeah, he was possibly going to go in. I'm like, didn't you say your back was all tight? It was just a weird thing, man. I believe he was doing media before the game and everything. And I can't do it. I can't do it. A hundred dorn. Bad back can't go

Schneider you're up Yeah it's tough It's a tough pill to swallow Yeah Something to chew I'm brought to you by Boston Pizza Canada's favorite sports bar Enjoy $15 lunch at BP

Where you get an entree a side And a drink And you'll get it all in 20 minutes or less So fast lunch doesn't have to be fast food See you for a $15 fast lunch Or your local Boston pizza I just mentioned Bichette We're asking online today

You can vote at Overdrive 1050 Which injury has had a bigger impact On the team's playoff run Chet for the J's, Stollars for the Leafs. It's a good one. It's real tight. It's 50-50 right now online.

Wow. I would lean Stolars because of the position. Like not that wall is a huge... Like he's the last line of defense? It's such an important position. But that said, like, Bo, shortstop, he's going to hit likely clean up for you third. Like, he's such a huge pivotal part of the team.

And he didn't hurt, you know, his absence didn't matter against New York. I might lean Bow. just because we just look at Vladdy and say Vladdy you got to do this and maybe Beau would have been that backup guy for him and say you know what? You want to take a couple of games off I got you. Yeah. Well and you look at Nathan Lucas has been unreal.

So like Lucas has been hitting and then you got Vladdy doing what he's doing and then Bichette can protect him move Kirk a little bit down. Barger's really cool though. Yeah. Yeah. He's really cool though. Between him and Vladie it's just you're not getting anything you know back to back in the lineup there.

I'd lean Stollars just because of the the position. He's going to factor in the game a little bit more than Bichette's four or five of bats and how many times the ball gets hit to him at short. But they're big, big players, man. Big players, big misses. Well, they've got to find a way

around it. That's the thing. You can't have excuses now. You've got to go in tomorrow and win a game. The difficult thing is everything was so perfect. It was like everybody was hot at the play. And you just said they got a they were all doing everything. And then all of a sudden it's like the

the batteries wore out and it's like what the heck happened man well the savage thing he had the perfect start literally best start of all time of all time he had to think that Seattle's going we're gonna we got to get to this guy he's going to come back to him exactly like that was the first bit of adversity that he hasn't been able to kind of battle through although they even had the stuff with his parents and he addressed it and it was just that that wasn't a good sign that again It obviously been wearing on him. Yeah. That, and I'm sure that was Yankee fans or, you know, I can't imagine it was Blue Jay fans.

It certainly wasn't Blue Jay Media or anything like that. Everyone's been propping him up, you know, ever since he arrived. But that was, that was unexpected. I can tell you, being down there, everyone was like, I don't think I've seen this before. Someone taking the mic and basically saying, before you start, I'm making a statement on this. That never happens. These guys walk up to the podium and are basically like, let's go. Yeah.

Like, get Kagan to ask a question and whoever else and let me get out of here. He took the floor and talked about his parents and girlfriend and brothers and going at them and give it. I didn't even see anything on Twitter about that, to be honest with you. I mean, obviously it's going through his own filter, whatever. Right. And that's tough. And for a young guy where, yeah, like everything's coming at you quick, man. That's a completely different element.

That's the thing, though. It shows that it got to him. It shows that that. it's the wrong word to say, but it shows some immaturity in that sense where it's allowing him. You know, you've got to fake it to make it.

And everything was perfect for him. And, you know, you walk off, get the call. Curt and call everything. And then there's some adversity. You've got to fight through that too. He's got some swagger, but, you know,

you got to fight through that. Yeah. And last night he was getting hit. Like he got hit, man. And he needed Varland to come in and get him out of the jam and he couldn't do it. Yeah.

And the rest is history. three tomorrow night. All right. Mike Johnson, from the rink. Leafs Preds tonight on TSN. We'll catch up with Johnny in about 20 minutes. Confirm and deny coming up as well. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on TSN4. Something to chew on is brought to you by Boston Pizza, Canada's favorite sports bar. Enjoy $15 lunch at BP where you get an entree of sight and a drink and you'll get it all in 20 minutes or less. A fast lunch doesn't have to be fast food. See you for a $15 fast lunch at your local Boston pizza. All right, Mike Johnson, in about 15 minutes, Leif's Preds tonight.

Cabs signing Lane Hudson to an eight-year deal. Under $9 million per. Got less than Luke Hughes. Got less than that Lecombe kid out in... Which is fine. Don't you just think? I like the fact that the kids said I like playing here. This is the number I'm going to take.

And it's not like McDavid settling or whatever. But he just said this is what I'm going to sign. And I'm fine with it. Win, win. Like the organization, three years from now, when the cap is at $120 million or whatever it's going to be, it's going to be a bargain. This kid has a trajectory to be very special.

And it's not like he's signed for $3 million. It's not peanuts. $9 million a year. And he's a hell of a player. And he's given himself, because he's so young, he's going to have another eight-year deal that might be 20 a year if the guy's a superstar and one in Norris and done all these things that everybody projects him to do.

He's not underpaid. But I think it's a win based on where salaries are going. That's the biggest thing. People in Ottawa are like, well, Jake Sanderson makes a million less than him and has seven years left on his deal. People are going to be doing that all the time with these contracts, though. Yeah, well, exactly. It's more about what anyone else sets the bar at.

If that player is perceived to be better or below, and you're like, how does this work? And that's what this is. You know, like Luke Hughes is a good player in Jersey. It's a really good player. I think Lane Hudson. But Lane Hudson just won the Calder. Yeah.

And he took less. So it just comes off as this brilliant play by my Montreal. What the HABs have done very, very well, and we'll see how it all plays out. Eight years is a long, long time to make a projection on anybody. But they got Suzuki for eight, Cofield for eight, Hudson for eight, Dobson for eight, Slavkovsky for eight. Now, we'll see. You know, again, they're not all going to work out. No.

But none of them are exorbitant. Like Dobson, I believe, is making the most money out of anybody. Yeah. And they've got Demadov coming up, and we'll see what happens with him. And again, that's a long ways away. but if the cap again in three or four years is 120 plus and they've got their core locked up at very, very good deals and all of a sudden, they've got to have tons of flexibility.

Yeah, but their core's got to win something for it to be worth it. Absolutely. They just keep getting pumped in the first round. There's no sense of saying, oh, we got our core locked up. For sure. And that's why you can't, Garen, they're not all going to likely be here in eight years. Right. You know, like it's not going to work out for everybody that everyone gets signed.

and everyone's just kumbaya and you win cops and that's what they're hoping for, clearly. But I think it's smart practice. I think it makes sense to get out in front of it, even if you feel a little uncomfortable on the front end that pays off on the back end, you've got these guys in their prime making good money. Lock up the guys you want.

That's really what you do. And you've drafted and developed too. That's what Ken Hughes said today. Yeah. These deals will look great. The Nick Suzuki deal looks amazing right now. Yeah, Suzuki's brilliant. You know, Caulfield's a player, like they're all fine.

It's just, they're not making an exorbitant amount, but you're right. At some point, if it doesn't win, they're going to have to adjust. They'll have to trade one of them or something like that. But they all look pretty good, and they're all like very good players that haven't reached their ceiling yet. Yeah, that's the thing. Good luck trading any of them. Well, I mean, deals are done now. Nobody's going to be going to.

No one moves. You're right. Yeah, for the most part, no one moves. You're just going to say, Ottawa ended up trading Josh Norris, who was part, a long-term deal on that. Like in that core there, they moved away from them, got Dillon Cousins. Yeah. Worked out pretty well for them right now. Well, right down.

Norris might be done again for the year. It's weird. It's something happens off the faceoffs where he just must come out or something. It's awful to see. It is. Buffalo. It's really ugly. Like, jerseys on the ice, I think, already.

And it's just gross down there. Gross. I think Paige Thompson came out and he said, our fans just need to relax a little bit. And I was like, uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Not good. All right, hour two coming up.

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