OverDrive - OverDrive - October 16, 2025 - Hour 2 - Luke Willson

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

Join Bryan Hayes, Jeff O'Neill and Jonas Siegel for Hour 2 on OverDrive! TSN NFL Analyst Luke Willson joins to discuss the headlines entering Week 7 in the NFL, the Steelers and Bengals on Thursday Night Football and O'Win Willson's selection. The guys discuss Keith Pelley's mindset on the Maple Leafs, the team taking the 'all-in' approach and how the team will look to add improvements for the roster and Bryan gives his FanDuel Best Bets.

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If you smell What the Owen Wilson Is cooking All right hour two Overdrive continues Powered by Fanduel I'm coming around on Millie Vanilly man

It is a good song It's completely fraudulent And these guys were not singing it But it's not a bad tune Partsy we had a very solid last weekend A lot of professional covers These guys obviously blind squirrel Finds and not got a little bit lucky

For years now And doogie's over here sitting here saying, oh, look, we split the weekend. There was no blood. Doogie's over here tweeting things like, Hazenbro, are on fire? I'm like, we split the weekend. We have been on fire with our pets. The only miss we had last weekend was Denver in London, England, not covering against the Jets. And these guys want to say that they're on fire?

This guy tweets a picture of him and Al's brother every weekend. Sunday at like 5 p.m. We do have a real connection. me and Al's brother. I love that Al's brother. Partsy, it's personal now. We're going to have to really take these guys out this weekend. Apparently, Al's brother made his debut on this show six years ago today.

With Mike Johnson. Yeah. And I had totally forgotten about that, but he posted that. October 16, 2019, MJ went to do SportsCenter or something, and Al's brother weasled right in to take part in jerry's, and he just never left. And he's been a part of the show

now for six years. That's how he debuted. There's the two of us who were like, Well, we need someone else to do this. And this guy used to work in that little hut back there. I don't know what he did. I don't even know what he did back there. But we didn't even have updates. No one knows what he did.

Speaking of this, I meant to tell you guys this, I was, I think I'm in an airport, and I met someone the other day who was actually Al's brother. His literal, this was before my time. Like, I don't really know Al, and I didn't know his brother. The original Al. The original Al. Who was not named Al, for the record. I met his actual brother. Nice.

Yeah. Awesome. You wanted to go on true frauds. I met the real. real Al's bro. The actual Al's brother. Yeah. Even though Al is not named Al. Correct.

Joe. Joe Narsa. Yeah. So I met his brother. At least someone claimed to be his brother. Shout out to whoever that was. Joe Narses' brother. Shout out to Joe Narsus.

Oh, we love that guy. All right. Well, anyway, we got two old guys playing quarterback tonight. Yeah, kind of wild. Yeah, it is pretty weird that Flacco and Rogers are still cooking. How do they get to Flacco? Like, wasn't there another guy they wanted to sniff around at? when you've got a couple of young guys, how do you get to Flacco?

It's a very strange situation. And, like, the one guy, and we've talked about this on here, that I don't understand why he isn't more involved, is James Winston. Like, James Winston has proven time and time again that he can win football games in this league. And if there's a knock against him and said he throws too much, a little too careless, you know, well, when you have Jamar Chase, I don't know, remember the touchdown Jamar caught last week was unbelievable. I mean, he was completely covered.

I'm like, James is kind of the perfect guy for Jamar Chase, because he's going to throw on the wall 15 times. Exactly. So I don't really know how you get to Joe Flacco, and I'm not sure if you guys saw Tomlin's interview this week, but I thought that was priceless when he was like, I'm not sure. What do you mean?

Why did he say it? Because I think he was sitting there like, Joe Flacco does present problems in comparison to Jake Browning. So it's like, how can the Browns go into the season and be like, hey, this is our starting quarterback, we're going to compete. You know, if you would have told the Browns the beginning of the year,

that front office. Hey, the Ravens are going to be one in five after six weeks. Do you think you'll be in the race in the division? Your assumption would be like, yeah, we'll be three and three with that defense they have. And now of a sudden you're starting

quarterback, you're like, actually, I'm just going to ship them off in the division? It's such a Cleveland Browns. It's a gong show. It's such a Cleveland Brown's play. But, again, from Cincinnati's standpoint, I also don't quite understand. I don't see how Flacco is going to find magic for the whole season and push them into a

playoff position. I don't think it's going to happen. And if you look at the point differential in that division, it is absurd, man. Bengals are minus 80. Ravens minus 50, Browns minus 64 through six games. Yeah. Like, that's crazy. Now, what's funny with the Browns is the Browns defense is actually legit.

It's just the offense has been putrid. The big shocker to me has been Baltimore. It's a most to be a well-cocting. I know they're injured. I understand that. But even like you look at teams across the league, when you have good coaches, generally your depth is still, okay, we might not know them as household names, but hey, we can plug this guy in and play.

Sam Fran. Sam Fran's a prime example. You know, they're banged up, but somehow they're right in the thick of everything. And they have a great coaching staff across the board, both offense and defense. So for Harbaugh, to me, it is a big. bit of an indictment because they have looked, Baltimore has looked horrible. Even Cooper Rush,

obviously he's not Lamar. We all know that. Nobody is. But when Cooper Rush came in for Dak a few years back, he steadied that ship, won some games, kept him in everything. Like, there was chatter that year that Cooper Rush could start when Dad comes back. Back is sitting. Now Cooper Rush

looks like the worst player in the league. Like, what happened? You know it's wild? There's like a time machine going on here in the AFC. It feels like it's 2010 all over again because the Pats are leading the AFC East, the Steelers are leading the north, and the Colts are leading the south.

It's like you got Manning Rothesberger and Brady back. That's kind of cool. And it is kind of cool. And I guess I'll ask you, of those three, who do you think is most likely to be competitive by the end of the year? Competitive. In terms of like fighting for they're in the Super Bowl

competition or in the Super Bowl? Yeah, like they can make noise in the playoffs. I'm going to say, I know what you're going to say, New England. Believe it or not, That is up there? Indy. Indy. I know it's shocking. I know.

Danny Dimes in the playoffs. It's not Danny Dimes anymore. It's Indianapolis Jones. Indianapolis Jones, my fault. Different bad. I'll tell you this. Beyond the Indiana Jones stuff, Jonathan Taylor is one of the most unsung hero backs.

Like, he's unreal. To me, he's not Henry. He's not Sequan. He's not CMC, but he's right there. He's right in that conversation. Agreed. So it's like we don't talk about that aspect of it. you know Daniel Jones for better for worse has looked awesome

and I think defensively they have a lot of good playmakers even last week you know they have was it Ward that went down in in pregame and you're like what the and he comes out here and balls out like this guy's great it's a wild scene you throw Philip Rivers and the Chargers in there too yeah like this is a throwback in the AFC right now to be honest what what shocks me a bit though is I think 10 wins gets you to the dance this year

maybe even nine. Oh, for sure. The third wild card will be nine wins. 100%. Have you gone on SportsCenter and done your yearly at the beginning of the season? I love the Bills, and now you don't know what the hell they're doing out there?

How do you started that one yet? Not yet, but I'll be honest, I am a little concerned about Buffalo. I wouldn't panic. In the past, when the Bills fans really hated me, you know, let's call it three, four years ago, I thought Josh was really careless with the football, Which he was. Correct.

And now the last few years, he's cleaned that up. And obviously last year, the MVP, et cetera. But where I worry for them now is when you have Josh, you're obviously in any game. They could have anyone out there. When you have Josh Allen on your team, you always have a chance to win. But with Ed Oliver coming back and getting gashed like they did against Atlanta, it kind of leaves you scratch in your head because you're like, man, there's not a ton of receiver.

There's not a ton of talent at receiver. not like a huge one-on-one guy go win. Keon Coleman hasn't really turned into that guy. King Cade had a good game for he was hurt, but he's probably been up and down. I think that's very fair to say. The run game has probably been the most consistent of their offense.

And then you look at the defense and you're like, man, they're not like stout at any level, so to speak. You know, Bosa's been good. I wouldn't say great. Ed Oliver, I think, is a star, and maybe it was just his first game back. But, you know, is he Jalen Carter good?

Your linebackers are a bit older and bit banged up, and your secondary is not great and banged up. So I worry, you know, if your goal is Super Bowl, you're going to have to really out-scheme guys because if they say healthy, and I know no one wants to hear this, but with Rishie Rice back into the poll this week. Kansas City's your team, huh?

Kansas City rolls in there, again, assuming they're healthy, with Rishie Rice, Xavier Worthy and Hollywood Brown as their 1-2-3 receiver and Travis Kelsey as their fourth option in the past catching game and their offensive line is better. You can't tell me that Buffalo feels good about stopping that offensive attack. You can't tell me anyone feels good about it, let alone Buffalo.

Who do you guys think the Super Bowl favorite is right now? Like in terms of the odds? The odds. I'm looking at Fandle right now. Philly? Nope. There are two teams tied. It's probably Buffalo. And no.

Casey? Therefore, Casey. Yeah. Yeah, I guess like that's public money. I mean, it makes sense a safe bet because they've been to the Super Bowl. three years in a row. Packers still third.

Yeah. Listen, Packers, Jordan Love still scares me, man. I don't know if he's got the it factor. It's a bit, like this whole NFL year

has been strange to me because, you know, the Eagles are 4 and O and now they're 4 and 2. And that team could easily, we've talked about a million times to be 3 and 3 if Cardi makes those kicks.

The bills, we were all talking about, hey, going undefeated till they see KC certainly have a lot of issues there right now. They're 4 or 2. You know, the Packers, at one point, their own players are like, we might run the table. That's still the best.

It's so good. After two games. Yeah, we might run the table. And they've looked, you know, they tied the cowboys of all teams. Yeah, and they didn't look great last week. No. They were okay off a bye against the Bengals. You're ready to put that stamp on the Lions. And the Lions, let's, for better for worse, they got absolutely smoked. They got beat up by KC on both sides of the ball.

You know, and it's like, well, and I'm not ready to put the stamp on KC. three and three. I think what you're saying is there's no prohibitive favorite. Like there has to be someone. The odds have got to supply A1C, but I don't know who that is either. To put this back in there, they are all flawed. The weird one for me, and we'll seem nice, is where does Pittsburgh

fit in this? Like, how good is Pittsburgh? Aaron right now, if you look at his past rating, I think he's eighth in the league, but his QBR is like 20-something. And, you know, there's some things that go into both those stats. you know, defensively they've had a couple of rough outings but now Tom and's got them humming a little bit

they're creating turnovers like, can Pittsburgh be dangerous? I don't think so man. I don't know if they can get to the finish line. That's been their problem. Like last year they were very dangerous. Remember one of the last years, I think the last year where Rathlisberger was like fully healthy and they were 14 or 15

and O. Yeah. Or whatever it was late in a year then they lost the last game or two and I think they lost in the wild card round and just got punked and it was brutal. And last year the same thing. At one point, they were nine and two or whatever it was, and they lost their last four games. Totally. I'll be honest, if the Super Bowl were today, and someone's

like, you have to pick who you think would be in it, like next week. I know who you're going to take. I would say Kansas City versus Detroit. I think it's a rematch of what we just saw. I know it's a bit, I don't feel great saying that. But who's beaten Kansas City right now? Well, I do think

there's teams in the AFC that are capable of doing it. I still think Buffalo can and will. I'm going to stick with Buffalo. Like, I know they're coming off two losses, and it hasn't been overly impressive. Do you think they'll trade for a receiver? Yeah, I mean, they traded for Mari Cooper last year, I believe it was. Then didn't use them. This is another thing that I would wonder.

It's like you trade for Mari Cooper and you don't really use them. You go out and you get Josh Palmer, and I think they're paying him 12 shmell a year. And you don't use them. And then last week, it's like, hey, we've got to get him going. So they hit him on a 43-yard bomb first play the game. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, he got hurt. He did get hurt. But he doesn't even play every snap.

When I saw that, I'm like, okay, they've done their film research. They've talked this over. He's going to be, you pay a receiver $12 million, he should be your number one guy. Or at least one B. I was having that conversation the other day with my dad because we're watching the Packers. And early in the year, Matthew Golden, not getting a ton of touches, not used a lot, come out of the buy. He had the best game of his career last week.

And we were discussing, you know, is it Lefleur that isn't scheming for him, or is it love that doesn't trust him? And I wonder how you would answer that. Like, Palmer, there's an example. Like, is it that the O.C. is like, I don't, and I can't find routes for this guy or can't find plays, or is it Allen that's saying, I don't trust the guy.

One of the other. Yes, one of the, I would lean ladder that the quarterback gets in there and goes, I don't see it, the way you see it. Totally. What gets a bit weird, and I saw this first hand with Jimmy Graham, is, to me, I point towards O.C. because if you look at a

Sean Payton offense, which is what Jimmy played in with Drew Brice, it was very, very clear-cut roles where, okay, remember Marcus Colston? He was their down-the-field guy. They had Lance Moore to be their shifty guy underneath, and Jimmy pretty much roamed everywhere else. And the offense was very,

we're going to motion this guy to get this match-up. And how you run this offense is we get a matchup we like, and it's on you to win, meaning you, Jimmy, Marcus Colston, Lance Moore, whomever that person is, scheme, they go win. Where in Seattle, we never did anything like that, or I shouldn't say never,

but very, very rarely. It was very, okay, here's our offense, here's our play call, Russ read it out. Russ, if they're doing this, you're going to throw to Doug Baldwin. If they're doing this, you're going to throw to Germain Curse. If this happens, we'll hit the back and the flat, etc. So when you have offenses

like that, there's really, it kind of becomes that everyone eats mentality, which is what they say in Buffalo. And to me, when you bring guy like Josh Palmer in, you should be willing to kind of adjust your offense a little bit or you're going to get a $12 million guy who's now in the Everybody Eats category, which is not really why you pay a guy $12 million bucks. No, I hear you.

And that's where the disconnect can happen. Yeah, again, that's what happened to Jimmy Graham. And it was very, I saw it firsthand. I love Jimmy. He's a good friend of mine. But it just was like, you know, why aren't we using Jimmy more? And it's like, well, we just plugged him into our old offense that didn't really, it wasn't great for Jimmy's skill set.

Well, exactly. And that could be a part of the problem too, possibly, you know, that... Well, then why wouldn't you just tell the player, look, you're not fitting in our system, we've got to do something with you. What the hell's a sense of putting somebody in there you're not going to use? Well, it now becomes very... This is, we're getting bogged down. You're going to hate...

I know you hate when I go here, but it becomes the front office thing. Where the front office guys go, well, we paid him $12 million, you're going to figure it out. Exactly. And then there's a wild disconnect between the front office and the coaches, and now when you lose two games, and if they happen to not do, well, the fingers start getting pointed, and it becomes a whole who's going to be fired, the front office guy for doing this, or the coach for not getting it done.

Well, and again, the third element's the quarterback who is going to ultimately win in the end if he's a powerful guy. Yeah. Like Josh Allen. And I'm not saying I know that he's doing this on purpose or what have you, but I'll give you an example again from the Packers perspective. Rogers would force it to Adams all the time. And it was clear he just said, I don't trust the other guys.

I'm not throwing to you. And it didn't matter what Lefleur did. It didn't matter what Brian Gutickunce did. It didn't matter what they paid the guys. Rogers was like, I don't care. I'm playing. I'm snapping the ball. I'm throwing it to this cat.

Rogers is the ultimate, like on that spectrum, he is the furthest guy. Yes. Like I can confirm that there have been. I watched a video the other day on like an NFL film scene where he would be in the huddle, get a play call, and be like, nope, not doing it. And start drawing like it's recent. says, like, yo, I want you to do this. I want you to do that, and guys be like, okay.

So what is the GM supposed to do in a situation? Rogers is the one end of that spectrum. And I'm sure there are other extreme examples. Again, I don't know if Allen's that. I don't know. I don't know if Mahomes is that. But if they were, there's nothing their teams are going to do about it. So here's one. Because that's the core. He's the man. He's the king. I wonder this about Josh sometimes. And there's no way to be able to prove this. So this is just a theory. I'm not a hill I'm going to die on. But I do wonder if there's

some residual from Stefan Diggs. And what I mean by that is when Diggs was there, it was like kind of boom or bust, and obviously Diggs is a bit of an interesting character. But as soon as he left, I don't remember this, but Josh started just balling and everyone was like, yo, he's freed up. He doesn't have to force

the ball to anyone. He can do whatever. He can read it out. He can throw to whomever he wants. There's no pressure and he played. It was kind of an inflection point where all of a sudden he started really taken off. So there is probably a world where some of the coaches are like, hey, We need to make sure we avoid that with anybody else in this team.

Josh plays better when he doesn't have to throw to anybody. So there's no one here who are going to guarantee 10 targets soon. Could be, again, not a hill and will and will and die on it. No, but I could see that for sure. And listen, there's two losses and New England's looking pretty good. They're battling them here. To be more telling, though, I think their four wins are a big ordeal than their two losses. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, they beat the Jets.

Well, the Ravens open night, which the Ravens throw. prove that came away. Correct. The Dolphins, I said the Dolphins, the Jets, and I'm missing one other bum Saints. So between their four teams, I believe they have three wins. Like the collective teams they've beat. Right.

Have three total wins. Right. And they haven't really blown anybody out. And that's not always, you know, it's the NFL you don't blow anybody out, but the fact that against the Saints, there were kind of moments, like, yeah, I remember there was a prime time game with the dolphins and the bills, and we're all like, man,

This is going to be a blood bath. And the dolphins kind of kept it close. They covered. They're on the bills. Yeah, we hammered the bills. Yes. And it's just like, you know, we all thought that first win against the Ravens was the real ordeal. And there's a late fumble by Henry, but also the Ravens defense has gone on to prove they're an awful unit.

So they're kind of less stock in that. And then the Jets are the Jets. There's not much of need. So I really think they need a staple win here coming up soon. You mentioned the Dolphins. What do you think happened with Pua? Oh, I'm glad you talk about this is an wild story. This is absurd.

When he calls out his teammates and said some people are showing up late for players-only meetings, some people aren't showing up, and then he comes out the next day and says, or a couple days later, it says, that's on me, that was a mistake. Like, that's bizarre stuff. It's, it's, I can't. What do you think happen behind the scenes? Do you think his teammates stuffed him in a garbage can or what? Yes.

But all of it doesn't even add up. Like what he's saying to me in like football terms is like one plus one equals seven. Or what I took it as, maybe that didn't even happen. Why the hell did you say it? Players only meetings. Here's one. That's funny. And I'm like, okay, so I've had a few players only meetings.

Generally speaking, they're not for football. They are for drama. You know, this guy hates this guy. There's a fight. Someone wants to knock a coach out. We've got to have a player's only meeting, get this thing back on the rails. So that's the majority of player-only meetings. Tuesdays in the NFL, assuming it's a regular week is the off day,

and we would do a players-only meeting at 10 a.m. with Russ as an offense. And Russ would kind of give us, hey, we'd spend an hour in there, just want to get you guys familiar kind of what I'm seeing, because he doesn't get to speak a ton when your OC puts the game plans in, etc. So my point with this thing is if you're 1 in 5, The last thing I would point to on why you're 1 in 5 is guys not being in the player's only meetings Like of the things that matter in players only

If that's what they're even doing I would say that mattered like 2% in whether we want or not And I would go to every player's only meeting I would be there on time But if a guy showed in at 1002 And Russell's handing out papers Like the game plan's not even in yet You know, Daryl Bevel hasn't even talked about

What our game plan's going to be this is all just like extra stuff here it didn't have a, at least in my opinion, a massive impact on the outcome of games. So then what gets even stranger is the idea of doing these things, players only meeting, is like the most closed door thing

we can do. Why would you go to the media and rat whomever out? And then also not even have the balls, for lack of a better term, to go out and say who it is. Like the whole thing makes zero sense to me. And again, I do feel like guys are probably

Like, listen to it. Like, you keep saying, and I watched, you know, he said it on his apology. He's like, you know, we talk a lot about it in here, like, ignore the noise. And, like, I got to apologize because I'm the one creating the noise. Which made me think that it just didn't even happen. I would agree with you. I think he gets up there sometimes and, like, doesn't know what to say and just starts going into robot mode. And it's like, I'm just going to say, like, oh, you know, we got guys on going to players only meetings.

And it's like, oh, shoot. Well, it makes everyone look awful. Like, obviously, it fires the coach immediately. He's done anyway. He looks like he wants to be done. Now you'd think he's, get me out of here. Let me go back to San Francisco and be the offensive coordinator, like whatever, wherever he's going to go. But, yeah, I mean, you're always saying, like, money is a big part of the conversation there, too.

And Tua's got his guaranteed money. Totally. Tua got paid. And Tua is, he's set for life. And, you know, the ship is sinking, and everyone's jumping off. And Tua's just jabbing and jabbing and jabbing. Here's another one with that game, though, is they, go down and score, what, 27 seconds or something?

Yeah, they had a chance to win the game. They should have won the game, and then Herbert is about to be sacked. It's one of the worst tackle efforts ever seen, spins out of it, or wrestles out of it, hits Ladd-McConkie on a shallow route, that he then breaks the tackle and goes for 40 yards and gets them into field

goal range. And it's like Tua, your offense just gave, I think, was it, 29, 29 points? Yeah, 29, 27. Was that it? So you just gave 27 to the Chargers, which is a decent defense. your offense looked pretty good and your defense laid an egg including in crunch time

it wasn't like the Jets I guess it's my point here this isn't a situation where the Jets are cowerding out at the end of the half they are so awful it's scary how awful they are it's embarrassing yeah like they got they're on 117 watch man

they're on the watch officially on watch could you imagine though their own fans are starting to tweet out some stuff that is just like, you look at it, you're like, how was there even a fan base? I'm with you. They're the sabres of the NFL. They haven't been in the playoffs in 13, 14, 15 years, something like that.

Could you imagine for me where I think is? Yeah. Good for them. It's like you're on the jets. Let's say you're on the jets. You're an offensive guy. It's been a struggle. You haven't won a game.

Everybody knows you're not going to the playoffs. Justin Fields is not a throwing quarterback. You fly to London, England, you're playing the Broncos who are a legit operation, and you're giving them all they can handle. It's a tight game. I think it was 10 to 6th of the half, and it's fourth and one with 30 or 40 seconds left, and you don't go for it, you let the clock run out. Like, you get eight more yards, and you're kicking a field goal, and it's 10.9. But no, man, we're too scared that with a running quarterback with Brees Hall, with one of the most, talented receivers in Garrett Wilson.

We are too scared to go for this. Oh, and what do you have to lose? You're going to lose anyways. Yeah, you're done. Your season's over anyway. Correct. But that's a defensively minded head coach. But he's a big part of it. It's a conservative. He's coming from Detroit where there are ethos is we go for every time.

And the O.C. is the past game guy or was the past game guy in Detroit. I saw that and was like if you're an offensive guy in New York at that point, you're just, you want to puke. You'll want to puke. Well, listen, you guys made puke all over yourselves tonight with this pick.

I feel like you're going to get it wrong. I'm picking up on bad mojo between the two of you. Al's brother and I, we have an incredible connection. You guys are on the clock. Steelers laying five and a half at Cincinnati tonight. Who do you like? Parts. Lay up.

We got to go to Pittsburgh. We got to do it five and a half. Listen, D.K.'s and Aaron are humming right now. This is not a good defense talking about Cincinnati. Maddie. And I'll say this. There's been times where I worry about Pittsburgh's defense, but they do create turnovers. And if there's a man who's

going to turn this ball over, his name is Joe Flacco. Oh, and by the way, Joe hasn't even been in this offense for a full 14 days. So he got there, what, last Tuesday, he played on Sunday, and now he's going to play on Thursday. I don't love five and a half, but I do love

the idea of Pittsburgh taking care of business and winning by seven. All right. Listen, short week, divisional game, home Same thing. Short week Divisional game home dog. I'm okay with being on the Bengals tonight. I'm okay with it. I don't love it, but I'm okay with it. This is just one of those gross lines

and gross games where you don't really want to be on either side. We need turnovers parts, which I think we'll get. We're going to need two turnovers to cover this. Okay. Yeah, this feels like this is Joe Flacco master class tonight, man. God, I hope not. I certainly hope not. We'll see. All right. We'll catch you tonight on the group chat.

Can't wait. Enjoy yourself. There is. Luke Wilson or TSN football. analyst. All right, we got an update on Brady Kuchuk. We'll tell you about that. Leaves Rangers tonight. We'll tee that up in game four. The ALCS. We'll get to that next. All right, Best Futs coming up. Howard by Fanduel. So Brady Kuchuk had surgery today. He's out. Six to eight weeks. Now, six weeks would seem very, very optimistic for thumb surgery.

Like that, it feels like it's going to be closer to eight. You hope not, for his sake. You hope not if you're an Ottawa senator fan. the stick and doing all that stuff. Who knows how that can go? That's the problem. Like if you just don't have the strength in your hand, you can't play. It's just a garbage thing to happen to the Sends, man.

This really, at any point, at any point, but four games in there, one and three, they're not playing well. No. And that guy's, the one that's out, and they're playing tonight at home, and they'll play better. Like, you give up eight. They're going to get better. They're going to be better.

They're still a good team, but they were a team that they had a great run last year. They made the playoffs for the first time in a long time. They're still in the, we have to prove we're real category with or without Brady Kachuk. Dude, nobody wants to take a year off after waiting that long to get in and was like, oh, there you go, fans, that was your one-off, and now we're just sitting on the outside again. That's the truth. Your owner is the one that starts saying and thinking, we can't, you can't pull it back from the fans. You can't do it.

And they're not thinking that way, middle October. It's way too premature for that. But if it becomes a reality later in the year, that is very challenging. It's traumatizing for a fan base when you finally make it. And then the next year, you fall flat. Yeah. Well, what are two death blows to a team? Bad goaltending, bad penalty kill.

Right? Like, you can't survive that. And they're both applying right now. And star face of the team gets in. It's gone, yeah. I'll add a third element to it. So I guess Keith Pelley was down there. You know, the board of governors have been meeting

and Peerler-Brun caught up with him and, you know, Keith, of course, being the president's CEO of MLSC has said that these are all in here. And that Brad Trilliving has his full support to take a swing before the trade deadline. Now the trade deadline is four and a half months away.

So it's still, who knows what's going to happen between now and then. don't even know where you're going to be sitting around then. But that's why the timing's a little bit surprising and going public with it is a little bit surprising, but at the same point somewhat refreshing and also not at all surprising in terms of them knowing they're in a window here.

But this is different. This is what, again, when Shanahan left, now it's going to be Pally playing that role effectively. And Shanahan would not have made a statement like this. Chanahan would not likely have been speaking, period. He may have done an interviewer here or there with a paper. But do you care? Like, does this change?

You can see everything's a lot different. The media, the different stuff they're doing. And they're trying stuff. Yeah, they're trying stuff. It's really cool stuff. Yeah. Like Ryan Leslie's been really, he's doing a great job. He's interviewing players on the walk-in and they set stuff up down at real sports.

They're trying to do different things, which I think benefits the fans. I think that's a really smart play. but this is ultimately what fans really want is put together a team that can win and I just don't know saying it like what does it matter is my point like did it really matter if Shanahan came out and said that stuff or not

like um ultimately if you don't do it like it's not go time then why is why anybody say it yeah like do you have to prove that you're a raw raw person if the team doesn't do it then it doesn't mean anything anyway.

Yeah. Are you saying that ultimately he could rescind that comment in that statement if they're terrible. No, it's just like we're going to, let's like zoom ahead to the trade deadline. They don't really do anything because they might not be able to do anything because they don't really have that much to trade.

And it's like, well, you said you were all in. It's like, okay. Well, I guess from that standpoint, I think that's what actually makes this an interesting comment is does Brad Tray Living read this as you have to do something? Well, they are missing a significant. significant piece. That's pretty clear already, right?

Right, but that's going to cost them assets that they either don't have or won't necessarily may not feel comfortable giving up. They don't have a first round pick for the next two years. Their high-end prospects, as of now, appears to be two of them, Cowan and Danford. I'm not aware of a third one that's up and coming. Well, and one of them is like on the team and looks like one of their better forward. Right. So that, I think, as we flushed this out, why this comment is significant, potentially, is Pelley is saying publicly, we're in a window,

be aggressive, you know, there's a difference between he has my full support and I'm telling you this is what has to happen. Because within the article, he also was pointing that out, like the window is not going to be open forever. Like we've been talking about this for a long time. But they've been in the window for...

Ever, and they've won two rounds. And that's why you are a team without assets and without picks and without process. and all their guys in a cap system that's difficult to navigate because now everyone's been paid and guys are leaving because their deals are up right and that's that's the damage of being in this window and being competitive and being Uber aggressive which all made sense you just have to win right like that but exactly but they haven't yet no and do you feel better about their chances of winning this year than you did three or four years ago no not right now you don't

maybe you will by the end of the year maybe stole ours as hell and everything's all good. Maybe they make some acquisitions. Maybe the size of the team and Barouba in year two puts them in a position where it's going to be better. They did beat Ottawa last year. They did go to Game 7. It doesn't mean anything, but still. It doesn't mean anything for this year.

No, it doesn't. You're right. It doesn't mean anything. But maybe it can be a stepping stone. Now, you would think the stepping stone conversations were seven or eight years ago, not your 10. But I think that's what makes this a notable comment is that Peli is willing to go on the rest. record saying, hey, I'm, I'm aware that we're in a short window and I'm supportive of the idea of going all in where if he says go all in, guess what's going to happen?

What is all in me? I was just going to say, what is an all in? Well, you're the one that every year you and I yell at each other. Yeah, because I, you always say go all in and then I say, what does that mean? I know. Now, you don't have an answer for what it means? No, I'm saying you could go all in before because they had things to go all in with. And all in is a stupid phrase because you're not going all in.

What were their things before? They traded first round picks. They traded prospects. They, like, they went in. Like, they traded for Ryan O'Reilly, Luke Shet, like, all those things. That was the year where that was an all-in. That was the definition of all-way. That was a definition.

That was due to his last year. And they won the round for the first time and forever, and, like, it's one round, who cares? But this year, like, what would we even say is all-in? Like, what does that mean? Well, I guess. I just, like, sometimes don't like, like, just, like, I don't know, lines to, like, you know what I mean? Of course, they're just, they're, like, their headlines. spring and they're like well the expectation here is different like he said it didn't he

where he basically said the expectation around here is like it's only going to be staling cups something like i'm paraphrasing and like what did they want to do they wanted to bring back basically the same team it's like well exactly how's that actually going to move the goalpost at all but i don't again we don't have we have the answer in terms of right wing on the matthews line we believe right a top six addition so let's just say that's not going to change between now and the deadline and it more than likely won't unless the cowan thing works and he actually fits and it's all good but that would be an example of it

debt players you know making multiple moves at the deadline and at least one that is an impact play that cost you a significant amount of assets I think that's how I would define all in quote unquote yeah so if I don't even the mandate is made last year Cost significant assets. Yes. Two first round picks. Getting Carlo and Lawton. And a prospect.

They're one of their tops. Okay, so let's replicate that. They can't. They don't have it. I don't even think they have a second round pick next year, if I'm not mistaken. No, they don't have a second round pick next year. So how do they make this work? I don't know.

So what do you say, like role play, if you're Brad Tree Living and Keith Kelly goes, come in my office, I want you to go all in this year. What does he say to him? Well, so let me turn this around. So I go to another team. I go to Pittsburgh, and I say, I want Brian Rust. what do I have to give you? And Pittsburgh's going to look at you and be like,

okay, well, I want Danford, I want Cowan. And then you don't have any picks. Like your next best pick is a 2026, 2027 second round pick. That's their best pick for the next two drafts. So it's like, is that enough? Is it? What?

I don't know why he's staring at me. Like, we're playing roleplay here. You're saying Danford and Cowan? No, obviously not for Brian Russ. You're not giving up both those players. Okay, but one of them is not enough. Like, if you say, if you go to Pittsburgh and say we want... It would be for that guy in particular.

Danford and a second round pick in 2027? Yeah. Lawton just cost them a prospect and a first round pick. Is Brian Russ better than a Lawton? Well, for starters, Grebenkin is not much of a prospect. Okay, but Rust is better than Lawton by a lot. He's not, I wouldn't suggest by a lot, but yes. He's like a six-time 20 goal scorer.

He's a good player. He's a good player. for Brandon Carlo. There's another good again. Yeah, that was significant. Now, Carlo had multiple years on his deal, and he's a big right shot defenseman that plays in your top four. There's a lot of value that comes with that.

Okay, take it, like, forget Russ. I'm just saying, my point there was that's Dubus and West Clark, and I think they would look at those guys and be like, I like that. Say Alex Tuck. Buffalo comes to you and says, we'll trade you Alex Tuck. What are you going to give us? Ben Danford and your second round picking 23-7?

Not going to cut it. No way. Sorry. Right. We can do better than that somewhere else. More than likely they can. So that's what's tough. And that's why.

I can come to the conclusion that the all-in scenario is awfully difficult. Unless, like, and I think Cowan is going to be the interesting one because he's going to be their best chip. But, like, if he's contributing and he's on your team, you're not going to trade him, especially with how little youth they have coming. You know what I mean? Like, they could be in a position where it's like, okay, you can trade him for someone better now, like, rust or tuck or whoever. But it's like he's your only shiny prospect. You know what I mean? Yeah.

It's tough. Like, I don't know what I would do. Well, especially for a rental. Now, like, I would be open to the idea of trading an Eastern Cowan, but not for a guy who's going to play three months for you. No. No way. Like, that's, again, the Carlo price was significant, but they have them for three years.

Rust has, well, he's old. That's the problem. He has two more years after this, but he's 33. Yeah, and he's got injury issues. Okay, so Raquel, does Raquel interest you? Not for Easton. Like, I'm not giving up count for either of those. That's the problem.

Like, then you're not getting anything. because like your second round pick in 2027 like no one cares yeah like unless you're willing to go deep into the future but that's a dangerous game right like a 2028 first that's very dangerous because that could be matthews is out and they're turning it over and then you're in big trouble so you got to be very careful yeah so maybe you just have to get like some sort of like okay forward who's just better than what you got but i guess that's what i'm driving at is and we don't know the answer but will that appease keith pelly if the mandate is you've got to be a significantly better team on March 7th than you were on March 5th. Well, can I ask you? Like, what is Keith Pelly situation with the ownership change? Like, I don't know. Like, what does that work?

I'm pretty certain it was Rogers that brought him in. Okay. I'm fairly certain that Rogers was well, and both parties were aware of where this was going for the most part. What do you think the bar is for this team? Like, for them, for him to say

I'm not changing anything. I don't know, we're a week in. I know, but, like, we're having big picture conversations. Like, this is what you're saying all in. What does all in means? Well, like, for the season, all in means, does that mean they have to win the Stanley Cup? Does that mean have to get the Eastern Conference Final?

Well, yes, they'd have to improve on anything they've done the past 20 years. So Eastern Conference Final. Yeah, so I would say that's the minimum bar for an established, wow, what an improvement. And it has been for five years. Yeah, I would say at least that. at least that because they've been contenders or thought of

everybody at the beginning of the year all love Toronto love the least it wasn't like oh we hope they can win one round yes people were always saying for the last five years

these guys should be in a conference final or a cup final right that's been the standard yeah and I don't think that's changed I still think

they're a really good established veteran team yeah and the east is like I don't know there's not a lot of teams you look at and you're like they're significantly better

I wonder and I don't think it's possible with this team, but if there could be an old school like hockey trade. But I don't think they have the team that's built for that because they're not trading Matthews, Nealander, Nyes, Tavares.

Like those guys have, you know, have no trade clauses and all that. They're not going anywhere. The next layer like Riley doesn't... McCabe, Tanna, you're not... But those are older guys exactly that you... Yeah, you rely on and are established.

And, you know, you're not... Yeah, so you're not trading Simone Benoit. You're not trading, you know, Max Dolmy. That's the thing. Those guys aren't giving you a value anywhere. Exactly. And that's the challenge. Yeah.

So that's, I don't know. That's why I think this statement is somewhat interesting. Maybe it won't matter in the end, but it is something likely to come back to after the trade deadline. Good point. I should write this down. Yeah. This comment in mid-October, did it ring true or not? And if they end up making all these moves where you're wondering, that seems a little bit

reckless. It seems like a lot. I'd come back to this comment and say it's because it's coming from up top. You've got to do something. I don't know what that could be though. They don't have a lot. Like what could they? What would it be? It would be the 2028 first round pick.

Precisely that. Which is remarkably reckless. Would you put it past them? Let's say they get a deal. Player X, who's the perfect fit right now and it's going to cost you a 2028 first round pick, unprotected. stupid hypothetical, but Pittsburgh comes to you and says, we'll trade you, Crosby.

They don't have enough to trade. I mean, so forget about that. Sid, I would do anything. That would be completely different story. But let's say it's Alex Tuck. Okay. Who's a UFA and a rental and a big guy and a really good player and a perfect player, performer.

He's expiring. He is. I don't know what the desperation would be to do that. I wouldn't do it. To dig into the 2028 first grown pick? No chance. But do you think it's a 0% chance that they would do it? Do you think Bradtree living with rental?

Consultation from Keith Pellell? it's a zero percent chance they do that. Consultation or telling you to do it. That's my point. That's what I'm asking. Then you're doing it if you're told to do it. That's a great question.

Okay. You go into his office and he says you have to do this? Well, again, like Keith has been very up front. He told us this at Bimo Field. Like he is involved every single day. And he's there. He says he's a sounding board.

I saw him in the dressing room after the game the other day. I was like, yeah. Like he is very, very involved. And he is the boss. Well, yeah. No, it filters off. I guess there's a guy above him. I was taken aback that he was there, but then it's like,

I saw Shanahan there every game. Right. And he's basically playing. Exactly. Now, when the rapists play the next night, he'll be in there. And Shanahan wasn't, you know, but he'll be around with him. But that's what I'm saying. Like, if it's presented to him, this is what we have,

and this is what I'm thinking of doing. Now, Shanahan would have played that role and said, do this, do this, don't do that. Like, he signed off on everything. But that's my point. I guess that's what I'm getting to. Shanahan was the hockey guy. Keith is not. Keith is a media guy. President, CEO. Yeah. This will be a story.

Oh, yeah. It's going to be a story. We'll see what comes of it. Well, they're going to write their own with their record. Well, that's another thing. If they're, we'll have to find out what it looks like once they get there, clearly. All right. Lease Rangers tonight. Jay's Mariners. You got a good feeling before you get out of here? I got a good feeling on both fronts. Really?

You're scared the hell out of me? You're going to Toronto Parlay tonight? Why not? Why not? Every time I say it scares the hell out of me, nothing happens. You should just pull a haze and just say something you want to be clipped for tomorrow?

I don't do that. I hammered that Vladdy point. But that Vladdy point, I was messing around earlier. Vladi, I was 100% certain he was going to have a great game. I feel better about the Js than the Leafs tonight, personally. But, like New York, the Rangers, Sullivan scares me. All right, we'll get to our best bets, powered by Fanduel. Catch you on the panel tonight.

Jonas, you and I, we ride. We ride and bring it home. I got a good stat for you for the Jays lineup. Coming back with a good stat, courtesy of Jonas Siegel. Overdrive continues. TSN 1050 and on the TSNN. All right, Best Fets powered by Fandole. Make your picks and assemble the same game parlay and seconds on the Fandual

Sportsbook app. I'm going to take the Leafs out of this. parlay tonight. And I just don't have a good feeling. Wow. Like I know the Rangers have not played well. You're starting to play better, though. The Leaves?

Yeah. Yeah, sure. It's more about the Rangers. When a team gets embarrassed like they have been embarrassed, yeah, that's what scares me is they have to play better tonight. They have to score. Shasturkin plan. Stollart's a net.

You know, I'm not saying the Leaves can't win. I don't want to bet on it, is my point. But I will bet on the Js and probably that with the Steelers' money line. going to avoid the spread. But Jay's money line, Steelers, money line, that payment plus 186. Best bets powered by Fanduel. Same game parley is now available for every

MLB game on the Fandau Sportsbook app. Please play responsibly 19 plus physically located in Ontario. So my stat was I was like, why is IKF playing in this game? He is 5 for 13 with a home run against Louise Castillo. Okay. Go get him. There you go. Maybe you should bet on him.

Isaiah, Kiner, Philefa. Better not have an error tonight. No, yeah. He's basically in there for his defense. That's why they picked him up. ICF gets on the board tonight. Is that where you're telling me? Book it.

Okay. Book it. And the Jays have hit Castillo pretty well. And they like that park. They've won four in a row in Seattle. Swept them three games early in May. One last night. Shurs are on a man.

I can't wait for this game. He's got it. Cannot wait for Shurza, man. I'm pulling for him. I hope it's going to be a great game for him. It would just be such an unbelievable legacy. Like, he's not building on his legacy. going to Cooperstown, all that.

But from a Jay's perspective, it would just be so cool. The reference, remember Game 4 when Scherzer went up? Yeah. How well he pitched? Let's see if it happens tonight. Jay's, Leaves, Thursday nighter, what a night it's going to be. All right, Jonas, good seeing you. Thanks, hey, there's Jonas Siegel of The Athletic.

Thanks to everyone behind the scenes for helping out. We appreciate it. Everyone for tuning in today. TV radio podcast web, and of course, up on YouTube live on TSN's YouTube channel. We're out of here. Enjoy your evenings. Enjoy the games tonight. We're back tomorrow at 4.

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