OverDrive - Ovi calls it a career + where does Sid rank? | OverDrive: Oct. 5, 2026 - Hour 1

Episode Date: October 5, 2026

Join Bryan Hayes, Jeff O'Neill and Jamie McLennan for Hour 1 on OverDrive! The guys discuss Alex Ovechkin's retirement following the season, Ovechkin's rank all-time in the league, his career compared to Sidney Crosby, where Crosby sits in the rankings and the Maple Leafs' defeat to the Senators. TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun joins to discuss Connor Hellebuyck's future with the Jets, the desire to play in Canada and Dylan Larkin's landing spots.

This hour of overdrive is powered by Fandul. Fan Duel, bringing you everything from the opening line to the final score. And here we go, Overdrive, off and running. TSN 1050 on the TSN app, your home smart speaker, up on TSN4, up on YouTube live. Brian Hasey, O'Dog, Jeff O'Neill, Jamie Noodles, McClennon. Going on today. What's going on? Hey, is he a little disappointed you didn't come to the barbecue yesterday.

It was a great time. And then we went to Boston Pizza noodles. I was playing golf with this guy's buddies, and I told you before how he friends steals. He stole my buddies for me, and now they're his buddies. So I told one of the guys on the 13th hole, or 12th hole, I said, text Hayes that me and tucks are coming over for a barbecue for burgers and dogs and see if he wants to come just to get his...

And no response. He just ghosts us. And then I told the guy again, I'm like, now tell him we're going to Boston pizza, and we're going to spend the evening night watching football if he has any interest. And the guy, John told me, he goes, the guy's not responding. I don't think he's buying into this garbage, like, at all. Why would I? I don't know.

You guys are 50-year-old men. And I did respond. I said, I'm on, I'm at the rink all day. I was on the ice for like four hours yesterday. And I said, go have a great time. I'm like, what do you want me to do? Give you more, like, hey, you guys having fun? Like, you want me to check in on you guys?

And I didn't, I could tell something was going on because I'm like, I'm not buying this. Who has a, like a, like an out-of-nower barbecue? Not the three of us. Not the three of you guys. I'll tell you one thing. Your boy, Tux is so, he could, like, have a golf game arranged with Wayne Gretzky and he'll ride in his own cart. Yes. Like, I was a match with him yesterday.

He was my partner. I won a world juniors with that guy. I played two years in the NHL with that guy. He pulls up to the putting green beside the first tee. And with his own cart, and I'm like, he's probably just going to throw on with, no. No chance. Dude, that guy will never not take his own golf cart. Always.

Solo car guy. Owns it. Owns it. Usually it has to be number 16, too. Likes a number 16 cart. Oh, come on. Come on. He asks for it?

No. It's just kind of understood. Like if it's 16, it generally has his bag on it. And he is roaming around the property solo. I love it. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. And it's too bad I missed out on that barbecue. We'll set that up at some point in advance.

Another time. You got to give me more of a heads up. You know, I'm not a spontaneous guy. For sure. I'm not much of a spontaneous guy. By the way, what are you doing on the ice for four hours at a time? Isn't a kid's practice like 45 minutes? coach. Yeah, no, I'm an on-ice helper, which is very different.

Like, that means it's understood. Pucks go over here. You kind of pick up the Pucks. You got to wear the bucket? Yeah, helmets are mandatory. That's a hockey Canada thing. You've got to have a helmet on. But I was on with both my kids yesterday, and we were on.

One was on for an hour, the other one was on for an hour and a half. There was a little to stop the gym between. What did your toes feel like after? I was dying by the end. dying. And you can't complain because you're not doing anything. You know, you're not skating or, like, working out or building up any type of sweat. But my feet by the end of it were a disaster, a disaster. And all I wanted to do is come home and just lay on the couch and watch football all afternoon and all night. Sure enough, we got the spontaneous invite over to our friends.

So I had to go over there and put a smile on. Oh, that was a rough one. Well, at least was there football on it, your friends or not? It was more of a street kind of hanging out party type of thing, kids buzzing around. It wasn't crazy, and I wasn't there forever. But it was kind of like, really, I guess we could do that. You know, one of those routines. But anyway, it's all good. Good to see you guys.

We got a lot going on today, a lot in the hockey world, right? Alex Ovechkin, I guess, told the boys, walked into the dressing room. him this morning and said this is it. I don't think anyone's surprised. I mean, what is he, 40 years old now? Like, OVee, he was not going to play much longer. But this is it for Alex Ovechkin. So what kind of send-off will he get?

Well, you've seen guys around the league, and we've talked about it how I'm not like the biggest fan of the old every building, the stand-up. And now the question is, guys, is every organization, do they feel somewhat obligated? for like the gift like i don't know yeah like do you remember the gift tour that like mariano rera went on like every team in the league in the oakland a's got him a bottle a wolf blast or something everyone was chirping their gift but our team's going to be obligated his final stop in the building

to say i don't know and then there's everything involved with it how the teams are going to react to his last it's going to be a fascinating kind of goodbye tour how each team is going to react. I think he should get on special occasions. I'll give it an example. The last time he plays Sid, the last time he's in maybe L.A. or something like that, I think he should get a little bit of love. This guy's been a great ambassador for the NHL for many years.

And, you know, a likable guy. Remember early on he was doing commercials and stuff like that for the league, him and Sid? I think you should be something like that. Oh, he's going to get it. Like if Anzei Kopitar got it, he's a great player, but it's not even in the same stratosphere in terms of importance and significance as Ovechkin, OV's getting it. I mean, OV, OV, every last time he's in town, Toronto, Montreal, through Western Canada, it's going to be significant.

Obviously, the last time he's in Pittsburgh or any of the divisional rivals is going to be significant. That's a great point, Hayes. Like a Copatars goodbye tour was fairly significant. Yeah, it was. At no disrespect to him, it was actually more than I thought that it was going to be. So OV's is going to be that on... 100%. Pumped up.

It's going to be on the other teams' players to give him the salute at the end of the game and all that kind of stuff. And we'll see if they do ceremonies and stuff. I don't know if it's going to get to that extreme. You know, there aren't ceremonial puck drops every night. That doesn't generally happen. So I'm not sure how they're going to handle him down the. stretch. But I don't even know if there is an All-Star game this year. It's been so out of whack. Long Island. Yeah, okay. So I would think he would be there for that and that would be a big celebration,

you know, like mandatory ovies there. He's kind of the face of it all. And it's going to be a celebration of a guy's career that is unprecedented. I mean, the way he has dominated, the way he has scored goals, he score more goals than anybody in history. And I was trying to define him this morning. and I think is it crazy to say he's the greatest power forward of all time? Like, do you define him that way as a power forward? Because I think if you do, he is. Like, he has to be. He scored 900 plus goals.

He throws a million hits. I know he doesn't fight necessarily, but when he has, he has beaten people up. He pumps, fetch the cup about 10 years ago or whatever it was. I think that's a reasonable definition. Like the greatest power forward of all time. Alex O'Butchkin. Well, yeah.

I mean, you can attach power forward to goal scorer. He's obviously the greatest goal scorer of all time. And you just might as well attach the power forward because he had a very unique style. Like he would just run around and try to crush guys. And he also could, like, he could wander around out there with the best of them, take long shifts. But he played intense and he always finished his checks and scored goals. I think that's the definition of a power forward. Right.

So you would have to attach his name to it. It's obviously greatest goal score of all times slash power forward. I think what we are missing and what we I think are hesitating on is just the fighting part. But he didn't fight much because he was a goal score. But I think when I think of power forwards, I think of Jerome McGillowell. I think of Brendan Shanahan, guys like that. But he, you know, he falls into a different category just because he scored a million goals. That's the way I look at it.

Yeah. Exactly. He's better than those guys. Like, that's the point. But sure, you know, we all love Iggy and Rick Tockeet and all those guys, Gary Roberts. Like, those are your conventional power forwards. And, yes, he doesn't have 40 fights in his career. But I would guess he has more hits than all those guys. Like, I would be very curious, and I don't know the stat.

Like, where he lands all time and hits. And I don't know how long they've been registering that. But I remember when he came into the league, he would have nights where it was like 13 shots, 11 hits, two goals, and an assist. And it was just absurd what he was doing. It's almost like, it's almost like insulting when you describe Ovi because OV's up there with Mario and Wayne and Sid, and it's like when you attach power forward to it,

it almost like takes away from the grade eight. You know what I mean? Exactly. Not like, in a weird kind of way. It's like that's Ovi, man. That's not a power forward. But in actuality, what he did on the ice, that's the way he played. And Dugie just looked it up.

He's third all time. Again, I don't know how deep it goes. But I think to add to that point, that's why I thought of it this morning, because I think you're right. I don't know if we ever call Gordy Howe a power forward, but he's the definition of a power forward. Tough as nails, hit every. And it's generally a winger, right?

Like Lindrosse was a one-off. Lindross played center, but he was a power forward. But Cam Neely and Ginnla and Shanahan and a lot of the things. those guys, Wendell, like they were wingers. And I don't think of Gordy Howe was a power for it, but of course he was. And he fought and he beat people up. So if Gordy is, that I would think Ovechkin is, and, you know, we're asking the question online, something to chew on brought to you by Boston Pizza, Canada's favorite sports bar

and O and our buddy's favorite sports bar as well. And Johnny Canales and Darcy Tucker love B.P. Boston Pizza. Enjoy $15 lunch at BP where you get an entree of a side and a drink, and you get it all in 20 minutes or less. A fast lunch doesn't have to be fast food. See you for a $15 fast lunch of your local Boston pizza. Where does he rank all time?

Top 5, 6 to 10, 11 to 20, or 20 plus. Like where would OV rank for you guys all time? I think a guy that did the most difficult thing, which is score goals, and he's the, like he is number one, it's got to be top 10, if not top five. But the thing is, with the top five, who are you punting out of it? Who is the top five anyway? It's Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Gordy Howe, Bobby Orr. I think Sid.

That's my five. Yeah. So is O.V. going to knock out Gordy Howe, which everyone has a difficult time with just because of his name alone, Mr. Hockey. and the errors are so much different. But I don't know. Who are you going to knock out? I don't think he's top five for me. For what reason?

Because of what you just said, because the greatness of the other guys. It's not a shot at Ovi. It's like the LeBron stuff. I think MJ's better. It's not an insult. It's like you're number two all the time. I just don't think he's better than any of the five guys we just named.

Gordy, how possibly. He's not better than Sid. Sid was a better player and has had a better career without question. I don't think there's any debilable. I know he scored more goals. Sid's got more cups, more gold medals. He's a better, I think, leader. He's a more dominant player in the biggest moments.

So he's not ahead of Sid. He's obviously not ahead of Gretzky and Lemieux. And Bobby Orr, I don't think so either. So I think he's somewhere between six and ten. That's the curious thing. It's a really curious thing about the past. Like, who is willing to say, like, what historian, what quiz master is going to be able to say,

yes, Alex Ovechkin was better than Gordy Howe. It's very tough to me. Even Bobby Orr, because it's like people, when they do these lists, it's like, Bobby Orr's up there and no one else can touch them. It's like, what about when Kail McCar's all said and done? Or like, are you going to be able to say Kail McCar, or is it just Bobby Orr and there's nothing else? So it's fascinating. Like, who the hell knows if, I never watch Gordy Howell play hockey?

I'm right there with you. I understand that. And Bobby Or the same thing. He retired when he was like 27, 28 years old. He didn't have a long career. But you look at his seasons, you're like, oh, my God, look at what this guy was doing back down. Insane. Insane.

Insane. But don't, I agree with you. Oh, at some point, aren't we in the future, maybe 20 years from now, 15 years from now, is somebody going to be able to knock these guys off the Mount Rushmore and respectfully? Because, again, it's error-adjusted. But how do you go, well, Bobby Orr can never come off? But is that just a fact? Is it Bobby Orr can never come off?

Or, you know, Sid can never come off. What if McDavid, you know, goes off and continues to go off? Like, what are these players are going to have to knock a Mount Rushmore off at some point, don't you think? You know, an example, guys, is like Nick Lidstrom. Like, there's people out there, and I played against the guy my whole career, pretty special player. And there's people think, like, he might not have had the flash and the dash that Nick Lidstrom was like, one of the best defensemen that never played. And I can't argue with them.

It's just like nobody wants to say it. It's like, oh, you can't say that. What are you talking about? But he was just that good. A lot of it, I think it's good for the sport when the greats can be caught, too. Like, I don't think it's a good thing for hockey that you just, no, you can't touch those guys. That's not good for the conversation and for, you know, the ambition of the game and where it's going to go. Because I don't think any other sport holds on to that.

maybe Jordan, like maybe no one will ever knock off Jordan, but there are people that believe LeBron's better than him. I think, you know, I don't think there's a clear goat in baseball. Babe Ruth, I think a lot of people would argue Willie Mays was better, or Barry Bonds in his prime, or maybe O'Tonnie. We pick and choose who's going to knock off who, and some we get a little bit excited. For instance, Brian Hayes, when Patrick Mahomes won is what, second or third Super Bowl, you were like, man, if he gets one more, they're going to talk about this guy being the goat.

And the real goat's got seven Super Bowl rings. And after the guy, does he have three, Mahomes? He's got three. He's three and two in the Super Bowl. After his third, you were like, one more, and this guy's going to be like they're going to be talking. So you're quick to jump on that one and say that guy's the goat. Okay.

But then you're like, there's no way Ovi could ever be 40. But you're not wrong. And it is, like, listen, I still think Brady's a man. And Brady just retired. Brady didn't play in the 60s or the 50s. but I just like Wayne Gretzky I think we can all agree Gretzky is in the top four right like no one's debating that

I totally agree with you Is Lemieux or Sid or Ovechkin better than Lemieux? No Okay no like not even close So then we're talking about Orr and How who played in the original six For the most part Bobby Orr played you know post original six era But an era long before our time So a lot of it is just aura

you know like bobby or i'm not disputing the greatness of bobbyor of course he was incredible you know like i land on the fact that don cherry used to pump his tires all the time like well if don cherry thinks he's the greatest then okay you know i'm on board with that that's how i thought as a kid and um yet you're right i mean maybe lidsdram maybe mccar ovi's different because this is the end he's not he's not passing anybody this year based on what he does right now right like it's a totally different scenario he's done all the passing and I don't know who the hell's going to pass him. But even six through ten's not easy noodles.

Like if you, like, let's say Lydstrom's in there and where's Mark Messier and all this and where's, where's a goalie? Is Hachick in the top ten? Right? Yeah, that's where I was going to say. Dominic Hasick might have to be a top ten best player of all time. Six Veznes. Right.

You know, the guy, and won two heart trophies when Gretzky and Lemieux and them were in the league. Like, it's a lot more. Six Veznesnes, man. Six Veznes. Like this guy is. I think he's the greatest goaltender who ever put gear on. And again, era-adjusted, you know, Terry Sawchuck, these guys played 500 games in a row. So it's just, you know, you have to throw respect there.

I was thinking, and you guys know this, and I would challenge you on it, is anybody ever going to be better than Tiger? Well, I think some would argue Nicholas was noodles. Like Nicholas has more majors. Nicholas, you look at Jack Nicholas in his run. It was longer. He had a million top fives. I think it's a good example, though.

Tiger is a pure talent, but then you get into talent versus hardware, right? And that's the Brady stuff. Like, Brady wasn't the most talented quarterback of all time, but he won everything. So it makes for great conversation. And I think it would be a good thing for hockey to allow for that. Like, I would have Sid the top four for me. Like, I don't know who I'm taking out, Bobby Orr or Gordy Howe, but Sid's a top four player all time. See, it's someone like you that has to have the stones to step up.

No, no. He's out. There you go. I'll say it right now. You know how many guys with moustaches and gray hair on their couch? They're throwing stuff at their time. Dude, I can't go out in public now for a long time. If I ever went to Saskatchew, like Chaser, if I run into him, he will kill me.

He will kill me for that comment. So hang on a second. Gratsky, Lemieux, and Sid's three and Gordy Howe's out? Yeah, I mean, in some capacity. I have said my top four. That's what I'm telling you. I love it. say it but I lost it.

Gordie Howe is out. It's been, it's out. What a, Dukey, make that the headline. They're going to put that on these stupid boards and it's going to blast everywhere. Gordy Howe is out, says Hayes. That's what's coming. Here's the other thing to add in, guys, is that Wayne Gretzky, Gordy Howe was his idol.

He talks about Gordy Howe being the best player of all times. So that's where it picks up even more with Gordy How. That's more of respect from Wayne Gretzky, though. Like, it was his idol. And, like, he'll talk about, like, if he's ever talking about a good player, I'll be like, Mr. Howl. Like, he's obviously number one. But this guy just said he's out. I might have to have seen that comment by 6 o'clock.

Hayes, you watch yourself, Hayes. You're in big trouble there. I'm in big trouble. I'm in telling you. Like, we're going to the Great Cup. We're flying over Saskatchewan. I'm in, I could be in serious trouble. Doogie, make the headline.

Hayes punts Gordy how out of the top ten. Yeah, that thing is going viral. Gordy's out. like emphatically, triple exclamation point. You're out and sits in. But we haven't even mentioned where McDavid lies on that. And he's still building his legacy, clearly. But anyway.

What does McDavid have to do? He's got to win. He's not in that list until he wins. I'm sorry, you have to win something. Okay, I get it. So if he wins one cup and he just continues to a beliterate the score. Sid's a better player than him. Sid has been at his back.

I'm taking him over McDavid. I love McDavid. I'm sorry, Sid is a more rounded player. He is. Well, you know what? It's hard to argue that, Brian, because you look at what Sid has done. He is a guy that is, he plays a different game. Like, I've been told, and this is respectful to Sid, he is the greatest grinder of all time.

Because that's literally what he does is grinds every game. McDavid is just flashing and skill. So they play different games. They're hard to compare it to. They're right there. I mean, obviously, if you made the case for McDavid, this isn't some insult. Like we're talking about the greatest players of all time,

top 10 all time. It's an incredible club to be in, and they've earned it because they're all great players. My Oilers fans are going to be after you for that, too. Yeah, I can't win. I can't win. And I was trying to get sit out of Pittsburgh a few years ago, so they don't like me down there either.

I'm not winning anywhere. I can't get any love. All right, we'll come back and get into the Leafs in action tomorrow before they hit the road. Tough road trip coming up. Now, they do have days off in between. Vegas, Thursday, Colorado, Saturday, Utah, Tuesday. But they lost on Saturday. Ottawa did it again early in the season on a Saturday night.

They found a way to win the game. They played a great third period, Ottawa. Like that was textbook on the road, get the lead, don't give up anything. and we'll get into, you know, what's going on with the lines and where we think Jim Hiller is going to take this. Pierre LeBrun later in the hour. A lot of news in the NHL. We'll catch up with Pierre at around 440.

And Luke coming up with a Monday night or tonight and a recap of yesterday's action in the NFL. Overdrive continues up on YouTube live. All right, Overdrive continues. Powered by Fandul. We've got a Monday nighter tonight. Al's brother and I on the clock. He will join us, along with Luke.

Wilson around 5 o'clock we get pierre coming up later in the hour um the leafs off today back in action tomorrow and um you know all the stats are out there everyone's watching it everyone's seeing it the top line the third line looks great the second and the fourth line not so great um yeah you know they had another lead against a divisional team at home when they couldn't get a point and that's really what matters it doesn't it doesn't matter how it all came together the fact is you were leading Montreal at home, you were leading Ottawa at home, and you didn't even get a point. Can't have that.

It's a long season, I get it. But you're the one that has to prove you're different now. Ottawa doesn't. A little bit because Brady's not there. But Montreal and Ottawa, they were playoff teams last year. They're young teams that feel good about themselves and they're going to battle over the course of the year. The least of the team, with all the turnover and the season they had last year, that has to

prove they're back to what they were a couple of years ago. They played fine through three games, but you're one and two. And that's going to be the big question about this team, because, well, first of all, those stats that are coming out about how great the Austin Matthews line, I think that might be a little bit misleading because I haven't watched that top line and said, wow, this is like something magic. I just thought they've been okay. I don't think it's been like a dominant brand of hockey where it's like every time they step on the ice.

They're a work in progress and it can't get there. But the biggest factor for this team is every team like Ottawa and Montreal who are not like the oldest team, the most veteran team, but they know how to shut it down now. And when they do that, what are you going to do? So these stats about possession and everything, they're great and chances off the rush and all the stuff that's available to people to look at, what are you going to be able to do offensively when it's just not easy? It's the same as playoff hockey. and the reason why this team has struggled to have success when it gets to, like, mean, nasty playoff hockey, where you have to fight for every single inch and get to the net? Like, what are you going to do?

It's not all fancy stats and puck possession, and it seems like a lot of the guys, that's what they want to do. But what are you going to do if that's not available? Because that's what team's game plan is going to be against the Maple Leafs. Don't make it easy because if you do, they'll kill you. So I thought the second period on Saturday night was the Leaf's best people. period of the season. And I thought that top line was really good, like really good. They had a couple chances.

Omar got a little bit of luck, but he also made a couple big saves as well. The third period, or Hayes, you talked about it. Ottawa squeezed them, and that's where they went the other way. And I thought Brodsky was really good in the third to kind of keep it close. But I think you have to have that top line executing. You can't just get the looks. You've got to score on those opportunities. That's the difference.

I still want more from Matthews, like from the scoring. He got a goal, I get it, but I thought they were really good in the second period, but then, you know, Ottawa was squeezed in the third. Yeah, and there wasn't the urgency there from the leaves in the third. And you're right. I mean, Matthews, he tips in a beauty, and that's awesome. But, you know, he had that opportunity six on five cross-ice, and he just took a split second,

and by then Allmark had taken the angle away. And you could say, he hit the post. Yeah, he did. Three years ago, that probably gets ripped home. And that is the one guy. And I'll give him a bit of grace period here for coming back from the injury, regardless of who you are or how great you are. And two new linemates.

Two new linemates for him, too. And two new linemates. But if you look at the Edmonton Oilers, and they're a work in progress, and Mike Babcock is trying to mold it into a team that can consider, consistently win 3-2 or 3-1, because in his eyes, that's the standard game. It's a race to 3-1 or 3-2 in the NHL, and whoever can do that the best is going to be a real quality team. And there's some truth in that.

But the one constant that Mike Babcock, right now, while he's trying to mold this thing and pull it together and get the goaltending and learn how to defend him be on top of pucks, he knows that McDavid and Drysidal and Bouchard are going to be dynamite most nice. to fall back on. Like if it goes ugly and it's 6'5, guess who's going to come on top of that game most times? The Edmonton Oilers. So as the Maple Leafs are trying to kind of find their footings and everybody get on the same page

and everybody, a lot of new players and all this and that, they've got to get to a point where that one constant is going to be Austin Matthews. Maybe you could toss William Nealander in there too. John Tavares is not in that equation anymore. Not the way he started. I mean, John has had a very difficult start. No.

So those guys, like for this team to do what they want to do, that one constant is just like McDavid and Edmonton. Most nights, he's the best player on the ice. And they've got to start getting that out of Austin Matthews. Yeah. And that's when he was obviously winning a heart. He was doing that. When he was chasing 60 plus, he was doing that.

And we had Jike on Friday, you know, and John said the goals, like they believe they're going to come. Again, it's three games, but he said they're needed. Like, it's mandatory. This team is built around Austin Matthews being a dominant offensive force. I think Marchenko is going to really help him. I think Marchenko's been great. He's been outstanding through three games.

It looks really good. Really good. Like, he is a clear talent that if he stays on his toes and keeps moving, he and Austin have the real chance to do some magical stuff. But it's one thing. to, again, say, well, they look good, skated, well, like ultimately, Austin Matthews, we just talked about Ovi for 20 minutes.

He scores goals. That's what he does. That's why he gets paid what he gets paid. That's why he can terrorize in opposition because he can rip home goals. And that's what is going to be needed. And they both scored on Saturday. Obviously, you need more than that from the rest of your lineup.

You know, the Tavares line is really struggling right now. And again, John, it's three games. he's 36. He's not young, but he's also not 40 or 41. I don't think this is Joe Thornton as a leave scenario. But it's going to take him a while to get going. It's clear he's just not up to speed. You know, like plays are dying on a stick.

He's a step behind. They're going to need more to John Tavaros because he's the second line center. He can't win without a good second line center. He's going to be the second line center this year. Yeah, at least this year. He's going to be the second line center next year. And he's going to be the second line center of the year. after that.

He might be. So everyone that said, you better pay this guy because he's Johnny Toronto. I'm not going to get into that. He's just got to get better. And if he doesn't, they've got big time problems. There's just no other way around that. Well, the one thing I want to talk about the first line, I don't know how long Hiller is going to look at Roslavik up on that top line because I think 53 deserves to go

one way or the other. I just think he's played too well and he needs to be, if it continues to go the way it is, I think he can help that top line. I think he can help get the pucks. I think he can help fight for pucks. He's working his ass off. He gets in on the forecheck, and that might be a great element for those guys to have on that top line. So if Roscovick, I don't know how long you're going to continue to watch him there, he hasn't been awful,

but I just think Easton Cowan can help make that. Like, Easton Cowan can help make any line he plays with, and I'm not trying to pump his tires too much, where he's the best player in the team. but I think he can help the second line. I think he can help the first line. I think what he's doing can help any line that he goes out there with. So let me ask you, though, if you're going to put Easton Cowan on the top line, do you put Marchenko on the right side then?

Has to. I think about, yeah. Yeah. And who knows what he thinks about that? That might be more, like, if you think about going up the neutral zone and the ice, the Marner-Matthews connection, unless Caril Marchenko is dead set on playing right-wing, like I'm an off-wing, you know, shooting forward, then I guess, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, his comfort level will be taken into account.

I think with Austin being a left shot, he's going to get more puck touches if he's on the right side. You know, like naturally Matthews is going to look to that. And I agree with your assessment on Cowan. He's been great. The thing is that third line's been really good. You know, the first line, the third line has been good. That's the thing, Brian. It would suck for the third line.

is like, oh, yeah, we're cooking now and we're feeling good about her game, and you're going to take the best player off that line to kind of feed somebody else on a different line. Right. I think it makes sense to give it another kick at the cantamore night, which it sounds like it's going to happen. Lines are the same, deep pairings are the same. It's three games in. You're one and two. You've lost two games three to two where you've been in them or had leads.

It's not like panic time for the leaves. But, you know, the second line, I thought Willie's approach to McKenon, today was very appropriate and sounded right. I mean, why don't we play it? Willie was asked about him because all eyes are on McKenna and people are waiting and now the other fan bases are jumping in because it's the Leafs and he's first overall pick and, you know, people waiting to see what he's going to do. And Willie was asked about McKenna and his start and the expectations

and here's what Neelander had to say today. I mean, there's no pressure to produce. I mean, you know, he's going to be a great player. so there's no, it's going to happen when it does come in a waves, a lot of waves. Yeah, exactly. And he's right. There shouldn't be pressure. There isn't internally because I'm sure the hiler and company are saying John Tavarvis and William

Nielander, you got to produce, you know, like carry this kid. The only question is, Brian, how long can you continue to watch with it? Because now you've got a head coach that's not, like, connected to, you know, just handing over the spot where it's, Like, it's, you know, in the years past, it's like, you're playing there, and no matter what, you're not, we're not changing anything. And the GM's not connected to any of it either. So that second line and the power play continues to struggle. And I've said it for years when it's struggling. It's time to maybe hurt somebody's feelings and get a different look in the power play.

So the question is, how long can Jim Hiller look at a few things and just say that's, I've seen enough? Well, his reputation in L.A. was overly patient, too, right? like he kind of committed to his vets and committed to his lineup. Okay, well, trying to make the playoffs in the Atlantic Division. I'm not saying, I'm not just fired up to bench somebody or take somebody off a line or a power play. You've got to get cooking in the Atlantic Division. There's not a whole lot of time to be patient and say,

yeah, I'm going to keep rolling that out there for three more weeks to see if it works. Like, they've got to get some wins. You're right, but I think there is probably a formula where they're waiting for 10 games. Let's see what the, you need some familiarity with these guys, don't you? Like to kind of keep them together to get some chemistry. If you start messing with stuff, you might not ever get that chemistry because you're disrupting it. So I say give it a couple more games, and if you don't like me to see, you can always adjust that. Yep, exactly.

All right, Pierrotone coming up. Luke Wilson will join us. Best Betts Monday Nighter tonight. Overdrive continues up on T.S. So on Friday, we were wondering what it was going to look like when Bill and Larkin got announced in Detroit. And he got announced, and he heard, man. He took a licking on Friday night. That's turned into the biggest gong show in pro sports right now, I'll tell you that.

And it's getting – they're going to need the COVID tarps because there'll be nobody there. There's pictures of the crowd. It's embarrassing. And I don't think the people in the front office are to blame. There's other problems. Let's bring him Pierre and ask him. All right. What a segue.

Here's Pierre LeBron, our TSN Hockey Insider. Pierre, the Gong show in Detroit. I don't know if you see it that way or label it that way, but Larkin, Edvincennes in Sweden, the owner's taking a lot of heat. Like, how do they get out of this mess that they seemingly have created on their own? Gong shows one of my favorite things. It shows my age, and it gets overused maybe, but in this particular case, it applies 100%.

That's exactly what it is, and it starts up top with ownership. And, you know, you can decide how you feel about whether an off-seasoned still be GM. That's not the debate to me. The debate is why they wait until July 15th to announce that change? So first of all, you've already missed half the off-season. You're looking for a new GM. The Simon-Evinson negotiation gets put on hold the entire summer. Evanston's agent got their first offer from the wings on September 17th, I think,

after an entire offseason of silence. And I like what you said, I'm not blaming interim GM Sean Markoff. You got handed a raw deal here. I mean, this whole thing has been handled backwards in my mind, and it's an original 16, and frankly, I think it's embarrassing. If you're a Red Wings fan right now that you're dealing with this. But in the meantime, while they weren't negotiating with Evanston during the summer,

they weren't really talking to teams that much on Dylan Larkin. That thing got put on hold. So now, even though he gave them ample time to train him, he has to show up back to camp and deal with all that. And so it's, you know, and the guy we don't even talk about is Alex De Brinkett, who's a UFA at the end of the year. And he hasn't been extended for similar reasons.

And who knows what is future old. So there's a lot going on there. Do you know how any details, like, of this owner causing problems where, you know, he's like, apparently, like, I'm just talking about Twitter, rumors, Pierre, where it's like the owner kind of nix the deal for Stevie Y to bring in Stamcoast. And then he didn't want to, Nick's Quinn Hughes coming because he didn't want to bring up Edmondson.

Now he doesn't want to sign. Like, do you know any intimate details about this guy causing these problems? Yeah. Because I think people in Detroit aren't stupid. Yeah. No, I mean, I wouldn't feel comfortable enough in what I've heard that I believe it to be 100%. You know what I mean?

And that's important to me when I speak on things like this. But, I mean, there are actually to speak for what's going on right now. Like, this is crazy. You know, having Simon Evanston, who, by the way, showed up to camp and played on a PTO because he wanted to be part of things. When's the last time an RFA of his pedigree showed up to camp without a contract? Now he just wanted to get a done. Well, I mean, now it's, I'm told he would still sign. it could end up in a trade, but I still think you would sign.

The Red Wing's only priority right now is to sign him. I would say on that whole thing, there's still a number of different scenarios that could play out. But, yeah, it's a tough look for that franchise right now. Well, Pierre, in following up on the article you wrote about the no trades and Gary Bettman's comments and stuff like that, I mean, what do you make of that in kind of the, you know-what storm that might be brewing with some of the agents that commented on it? Yeah, I was looking forward to writing that story, and I'll tell you why, because when Betman made his comments last week, one thing I noticed in our comments section of the athletic

was that a lot of fans were happy that the commissioner made those comments. They want to get rid of no trades or minimize no trades, and I understand where fans are coming from, but I felt that it was important to illuminate how the system actually works. I mean, it's like some of the agents, I quoted, said, okay, you want to get rid of no trades and let's get rid of the salary cap. Like the no trades have been earned over 30 years of bargaining in the CBA. You don't just get to pick and choose an item and say, we're tired of it. That's not how collective bargaining works.

And so I think, I mean, I think a lot of readers weren't happy with the tone that I think I took on that piece. But I'm just trying to say there's two sides to this conversation. and, you know, for the league to say maybe we should look at this. And again, I think Gary Batman was being pretty general. I don't think this is a hill he'll is going to die on. But these things are serious to players. And, you know, Ron Azy's comments were pretty direct when I spoke to him over the weekend that he considers this an attack on players' bargaining rights.

And that's how the NHPA feels. Well, and I find it quite rich that Batman's getting. maybe some support or getting saluted from some like, hey, at least he's speaking out on this issue. Yeah, because it's a player's issue. If it was an owner's issue, he wouldn't say a word, right? If anything you ask him about the problems with ownership or relocation, it's not, or great, what are you talking about?

You don't know what you're talking about. The reason he was willing to give somewhat of a candidate answer on this was because it's about the players. And that's why he'll talk about it, which that's why he's been the commissioner. so long. He's selective. He's smart. He knows how to, you know, thread the needle when need be. And listen, it is a hot topic right now. There's, there's, Connor Hallibuck sitting at home. Dylan Larkin's getting booed, but not playing, you know, and we all know the no trade stuff.

The Brady-Cachuk conversation just went through the wire the last few months. It is a topic of discussion for fans, but, you know, we'll see what happens to your point and what you wrote is 100% accurate. It's got to be collectively bargained. as for some of the news that is going around, it doesn't sound like anything's there on Larkin, it doesn't sound like anything's there on Halebuck, Pierre?

Like, what has to change? Well, I think what has to change on the Larkin front first of all is that Wings have to deal with Edmondson first. They've got to figure that out. And then they can eventually get to Larkin. I still think deep down, Sean Harkoff, because he's a new voice as GM,

will probably try to take another run at Larkin. Are you sure about this? But if Larkin sticks to his guns and I think he will that he wants out, then at some point they'll have to deal with that. I'm told that Larkin has expanded his list to nine to ten teams now in terms of where he'd be willing to go. But I suspect the majority of those teams are some of the best teams of the league that have no cap room and have no assets to trade.

So it's not easy to make these things work. Conne Allibuck and Dregs has been all over this story. But I mean, I think the Jets are going to be digging their heels till the team takes them seriously that they're not giving this guy away. And like I, you know, the Carolina Hurricanes for sure would trade for Connie Albaugh. No question about it. But I don't think they feel they, that the Jets have enough leverage to ask for more than what they've been offered.

You know what I mean? There's two sides of this conversation. And on top of that, goalie trades aren't that common. And when they do happen, if you look at them historically, noodles can back this up. It's weird how a lot of great goalies don't net a great return. It's a very strange thing in history of our game. So the Winnipeg's in a, honestly, it's a really tough place I feel for them.

As far as Larkin, like have you, like Montreal, did they ever pop into the equation? Is Montreal like a non-starter for this guy? He ain't going to play for the halves? I mean, I don't think there's a Canadian team on that list as far as I know. You know, it is a fluid situation for sure. But I don't think there's, and I know I guess people have wondered about Edmont for Connor Halibuuk. He's not going to play in Canada.

So let's please, let's stop with that. That's not happening. Yeah, it's tough. And I'm not saying, listen, until he's sit in that chair, you don't know everything that's been thrown at you and what's been offered. But I will say this about why I respect the way the Ottawa senators handled their business of Brady Kachuk. You know, the way it was delivered from Kachuk and his agent Craig Hoster was, you know, there's two years left on his deal. We'll come back and play hard, but just so you know, we're not going to extend here when the time comes.

And so Ottawa had a couple of ways they could have gone with this. They could have played hardball. You know, they did. They just took their poison. And they say, you know what? let's deal with this now and make the best of it. And I think they made a decent deal with Florida. My point is the senators get the camp and none of this is part of it.

And I wonder deep down and there's different reasons why this has happened. But Detroit and Winnipeg respectively will look back and say maybe we should have just handle this when we got the news back in the spring. Mentioning Florida, it sounds like Barkov 10 to 12 weeks. So he will return and there's no reason to believe they're going to do anything. crazy to fulfill that role? Yeah. I don't want to write off that report, Hayes,

but well, I will tell you, in checking with the Panthers in the last hour, they're actually still waiting to get more info from their own doctors. Barkoff went back to South Florida, left the team that's still in California, went back to meet with doctors today, and the coaching staff and management

are still waiting to get the full, you know, full update from their own team doctors about what this looks like. So I'm not saying it won't end up being what, I forget who reported that, but I'm just saying in the last hour, the Panthers were actually themselves still waiting for the final update on this. So the expectation is Paul Maurice will update everyone tomorrow in LA after the morning skate.

But having said all that, as far as I can tell so far, we're not looking at what happened last year that it won't be as serious and the expecting back at some point here this year, which is good news. Yeah, very good news for them, for sure. Lastly, Conor Zari on waivers today, Calgary Flames. Like, they can't score offensively. They are a disaster offensively right now. And he's a former first-round pick.

He's 25, not young, but a little bit interesting that they're letting, they're waiving him when they're having so many, you know, issues up front. Yeah, it is. I agree with you. And, you know, I had heard his name. out there a bit during the off season as a guy that the flames were willing to move and obviously that never transpired in a traditional trade.

So what happens when you don't move a guy after a while is waivers as a last resort. He's got another year left on his deal, I think, at $3.375 million. So there's definitely that my sense is that, you know, the flames feel that he struggles with pace

and some of his, you know, buck management decisions. I don't know, it screams to me reset for a guy, right? that he needs a new lease on his NHL life or so maybe he'll get that. But I always say when a guy has another year on his deal, waivers isn't always your friend. So sometimes it will happen as a player might go unclaim, but now that he's gone through waivers,

it's gotten more attention from around the week. So maybe there's a trade that actually happens further down the line here because he's been waiting. We'll see. All right. We'll see where it goes. Great catching up with you. Pierre.

We'll do it again soon. Thank you for this. Right on, right on. There is. Pierre LeBrunner, TSN Hockey Insider. Cowboys stole one in Houston yesterday. And they're two and two. Houston, O and four.

Houston might make my list on Friday. It's early, but Houston might stink. They might stink. Yeah. I think that is very reasonable to expect that. Luke Wilson coming up, Alice Brother, coming up in the next hour. Overdrive continues up on YouTube Live.

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