OverDrive - Phillips on Barger making a statement, Scherzer's mound expectations and the trade deadline perspective

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

TSN Baseball Insider Steve Phillips joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around MLB, the Blue Jays picking up big wins, Addison Barger's emergence through the season, the management perspective to the trade deadline, Max Scherzer expectations on the mound and more.

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Here's Steve Phillips or TSN baseball insider. We'll ask you the Addison Barger question again it's a weekly occurrence what is this guy know what point do we realize or are we ever gonna realize you know he's the real deal and this is actually happening and he's someone that they can rely on every night yeah boy i mean i mean one of what a game what a win that was for them you know when i, you know,

I need to see more finesse from him. Like I see him bully baseballs, but the question is, can he make adjustments? And I, you know, I think back to Davis Schneider, when he first came up a couple years ago, like he tore it up when he first came up a couple years ago, but then when he got the opportunity the next time around, when the league made that adjustment to him,

he didn't have another place to go. But first of all, I love Barger as a guy. He plays hard, he's gritty, he's a tough guy, the teammates seem to like him a lot. And so I think that he's given them some of what they need right now, but on a consistent basis, can he not chase? Can he keep the pitcher in the zone? Is something that, because he's going to start getting fed a bunch of breaking balls now. He's showing he can hit the fastball.

He's going to start getting up a lot of breaking stuff and pitches with a wrinkle in it. It's going to be interesting to see if he can make the appropriate adjustments to lay off those first of all. And then if they throw him in the zone, can he keep his hands back and drive it? Steve, it's been a positive vibe for the Jays. The last little while here has been a bunch of comeback wins. They're playing with, you know, they're bringing a certain excitement level. When does the conversation, can you take us behind the curtain of the conversation, when

does that start? And the GM's approach to ownership on what they can and cannot do come trade deadline. Like is the team for real? What's the belief of both ownership and GM and how that transaction goes down? Yeah, it's a great question because, you know, I think that, you know, it's different for every organization in the involvement of the owners, the willingness of the owners, the desire to win is different in every organization. What is successful? Is it winning or is it making money? It's different in every organization.

But what's not different is the job of the general manager is to manage up the organizational chart as much as it is to manage down the organizational chart. So I think you're at a point where you start talking ownership and saying, this is who we are, I think we're going to need to upgrade here, the injuries have hit us in this area, I think we need to build some depth in that area. So you're starting to have some of those conversations already. Just to set the tone on what the needs are and you know, each organization is a little different.

Like sometimes the owner will say, okay, well you've got this kind of money to go get somebody or they'll say, well bring it all to me and I'll let you know whether there's money for it. Now those are the owners who say i don't pick the players at all i let my front office pick the players but what they do is the money's available for the guys they want and the money's not available for the guys that they don't so in the end they're really the ones picking the

players they just don't want to have culpable deniability uh... you know plausible deniability that thatiability that it's not them picking the players. But I do think that some of those conversations are starting right now. It's a little unclear who's available. So a lot of it would be this player might be available, depending upon where this team goes,

we might have some interest in this guy. And you start playing out scenarios about where you might be able to go with different things and then you hope the owner will start to come around with you know what we've got a certain amount of money available, what can you get for this kind of money and you start laying it out there a little bit and then if you have something that you want that's making more money than you have available, what can you do to get that other team to eat some of the money to make a deal? And so you never just count anything. That's how I did it. Like there are some teams who say, well, I don't want to go after this

player. I don't want to go after a player who's represented by Scott Boars. This team's too hard to deal with. I'm like, I never, like literally there was a time that teams just say, I'm not, man, I'm not making deals with that team, I don't even call that team. And I'm like, I relish calling everybody and tried to find a way. But there really were teams that general managers said, I never call that guy. That guy, he's a hot mess.

I can't get him to focus on anything. He doesn't remember what we talk about. This guy always says no all the time and I would never eliminate anybody. I never eliminated an agent, never eliminated a general manager. My job was trying to figure out what they need, trying to understand their needs and what they need to hear and try to match up with them. So there were a couple times that I made trades at the deadline where other general managers said, how the heck did you do that?

Like, I can't even, I can never get a deal done with that guy. And I'm like, well, you just gotta, you gotta play it out. And so, and I think Ross is more like that. He'll talk to everybody. He's not going to any way, you know, eliminate any one team. And, but, you know, in back of the day, there were many a team that would just not deal with certain other clubs. Was there any vulnerabilities known about other general managers?

Like, would there be one guy that you knew would have two bottles of wine in him after dinner and it might be a good time to chat, stuff like that? I think that there are. that's the key, right? In any negotiation is to know the person on the other side of the table. Know their needs, know their team, know their personality. You know, and so for me, you know, most everybody was pretty clean living when I was going through it, but they did have tendencies. Dave Dombrovsky liked lists.

He wanted a list of players from which he could choose from. He wanted a player to be named later in the deal that he could then send the scouts out to further watch some players to figure out which of the three players on that list that he liked better than others. Uh, you know, that, you know, there were other gentlemen managers who said no to everything initially because it bought them some time to be able to go back to their people and,

and he didn't feel committed, but you know, he would go back and talk to his people, come back, say, you know, that suggestion you made there, uh, I would do it. There were other teams that, that, um, you know, wanted I would do it. There were other teams that wanted only upper-level players. There were some who knew exactly what they wanted and they would say, okay, I'll do this guy, this guy, and this guy, like that. You knew whether you had a deal done with them or not. But really understanding the other general managers is a huge part of getting a deal done and knowing what their quirks are, what their styles are. There are some who always wanted to be the one at the end to say yes or no as opposed

to the one making an offer that you needed to make them offer. Some like to make phone calls, some didn't. I remember Dan Duquette when he was with Boston. Dan would get on the phone and was notorious for not talking. Like he wouldn't say anything. He would only want to gather information. He would never want to share information. And I remember that there was a time when Dan Duquette called Kevin Towers in San Diego.

Kevin got on the phone and they both sort of said hello and then they both sat there waiting for the other one to talk and then Kevin Towers about five to ten minutes into it's like, all right, well nice to catch up with you and they got off the phone because neither, you know, Kevin Towers like I'm not going to talk if he's not going to talk and Dan DeKet just would wait it out and not say anything hoping to get more information than he would give. What do you need to see from Max Scherzer that you're comfortable on the pathway back? Yeah, I think it's less about what he does. Well, first, either complete a game or let the manager take you out, but don't take yourself

out of the game. That's number one. At least you're through the time that you were in the game, you were able to pitch whatever your capability allowed you to and then be okay the next day between starts. Because I think that you know making the start is one thing but the recoveries where he's had the difficulty that you know the thumb you know creeps up on him and is an issue for it and you know I'm not sure that he's ever going to get that behind him and so I'm worried that that thumb will heal because it's been a lingering issue now for a couple of years and if it hasn't gone

away in a couple of years then I'm not sure it's going to go away so you know and he always talks about how it's so important to arm health you know the grip of the ball and in that recovery period and so it's got to be go out there pitch and do your thing but also let's see how you feel the next day. All right Steve we'll leave it there enjoy the games tonight we'll do it again soon thank you for this. All right I loved hearing you guys break down the WNBA and Kate with Clark and all that that was that was pretty good breakdown right there guys. We're on top of everything here, man There's nothing that I love it. I love it. We're on top of it. I love it They do they do go after her though. Holy smokes

They gotta put a stop to it even I'm gonna make sure it happens Yeah, here's the thing like I like I feel bad And then when I see her put her arms out like what did I do? Then I kind of understand why they go after her a little bit. Yeah But like, what did I do? Then I kind of understand why they go after her a little bit. You know what? She plays coy. Like, well I didn't do it.

Yeah, she plays it up a little bit too. But she's a great player and you know, they're getting a lot more play because she's in the league. Big time, big time. Thank you, Steve. Okay guys, you got it. We'll see you. Steve Phillips, our TSM baseball insider.

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