OverDrive - Phillips on Berrios' undetermined status, Bieber set to return and Bichette's contract blueprint

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

TSN Baseball Insider Steve Phillips joins OverDrive to discuss Shane Bieber making his debut against the Marlins, Jose Berrios' tough outing and his stance in the rotation lineup, facing Paul Skenes on the mound, Rob Manfred's comments on divisional realignment, Bo Bichette's contract deal and the position values and more.

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applying. Joining us now on the Maple Toyota hotline is Steve Phillips, former Mets GM, TSN Baseball Analyst. How's it going, Steve? I'm doing great, guys. Good to be with you. Absolutely. Well, we were just talking about how the Blue Jay is going to get a new arm put into this rotation. Sounds like Shane Bieber is getting ready to make his first start as a Blue Jay on Friday. What would you be looking for out of him in this start? You know, I think he stretched out to 90 pitches. So I think that I think it's just going to come down all the way to performance. You know, if he's able to go anywhere from 90 to 100 pitches, I let him go.

And ideally love for him to get into the sixth inning or through six innings. But, you know, I mean, the one thing about him, he's always been an efficient pitcher. He's a strike-throwing machine. And, you know, he has looked on his rehab starts like the guy who's been, you know, Scy Young Award won a candidate in the past. But, you know, he's getting a lot of swing and miss, not a lot of base runners. His whip has been good. He doesn't walk anybody.

You know, he's got the courage to throw stuff over the plate, whirling in the bat to then expand the zone later in the abat. And he's been that guy on his rehab start. So, you know, I mean, my hope would be that he's going to be, you know, not necessarily Cy Young Bieber, but, you know, a guy that like the rest of this group is a very capable. competitive starting pitcher that can get you through six innings and leave with a chance

to win. Hey, Steve, obviously a lot of great news around the Blue Jay pitching staff with this revelation that Bieber is going to be making his major league debut for the Blue Jays on Friday. Berrios is the one outlier that hasn't been really heading in the right direction. Al's brother was just pointing out the stat in his last nine starts going back to July 1st. He's got a 5.68 ERA. He got touched up for six earn runs yesterday in losing to the Rangers.

What do you make of that regression from Burrios? And does it change the way you feel about the way he'll factor into the Blue Jays plan down the stretch here? Yeah, I mean, I think right now, I mean, if it were today and they had to narrow the rotation down to, you know, three pitchers, if it's going to be a division series or four starters, if it's LCS, he's probably not one of those four, three or four. I think that, you know, in the ideal world, I probably wouldn't mind moving them to the bullpen as it is, not even making an issue. I'd probably go with a six-man rotation a couple times through, but, you know, my view all along is that I think he could be a weapon out of the bullpen. I think it's fastball plays up if he comes in one inning at a time. And that slider, the break-in-ball he has is just a wipeout pitch, that sweeper.

Now, you know, he's got to, you know, sometimes that breaking ball is so big. it's difficult for him to control. And then when a hitter can then say, okay, well, you know what, I'm just going to look for your fastball because you can't see to throw that other pitch over the plate, it makes it much easier on the hitter. I think that if he's able to come in as a reliever and come in and air it out for a minute with that fastball and then expand the zone, throwing it in that same spot, throwing it off the plate with the sweeper, I think he's got a chance to be really good.

So, you know, look, the reality is that not everybody's going to be on the rotation. I suspect one of the right-handers, either Basseter or Brios, is in the bullpen with Eric Lauer, and, you know, the other four have a shot to be starters in the postseason. Kevin Gossman, another one of those guys who's vying for one of those starts. He goes tonight, taking on Paul Skeens, arguably the best pitcher in the game right now. how excited are you for a matchup like this to watch tonight? No, I think it's great. You know, and look, I think, you know, I think over the Latin,

I think a lot of this is good preparation for postseason baseball. I mean, DeGrom of all these schemes, me, you face the best pitchers in the game, on the other teams in the postseason. You know, you're going to get really good pitching. And so, you know, putting together quality at bats, what's the approach? Forcing to throw it over the plate. or you work the counter enough and get them out of the game

and you get into the bullpen and give yourself a chance to beat the opposition later in the game. So, you know, it would be interesting to see what the Jays approach is tonight. I think that with schemes, if it's a fastball and it's down, it's okay, be aggressive.

But if it's down in the zone and you read anything other than fastball, you've got to let it go, whether it's the split, the splinker that he has, the slider that he has, because generally, if he throws it at the bottom of the zone, that pitch is going to break out of the zone to get you to chase, especially if he's been able to locate the fastball early.

So this comes down to what is the report, what is the approach you're going to take against the quality pitcher, and understand that it's going to be really difficult to lump four singles together in an inning to put up a crooked number. And so you've got to take advantage of every opportunity. If there's an error, if there's a walk, If there's the ability to go first to third on a base hit,

then you've got to pick up that runner. You can't waste those opportunities when you're facing an ace. And you've also got to try to get them early before they get settled in. So that approach will be interesting, but I think it's good preparation for October baseball to face some of these aces on other teams. Steve, a lot of excitement in Toronto today, reading into the comments made by Commissioner Rob Manfred

about the idea that expansion could be in, baseball's future. An expansion would come in Manfred's world with realignment. And, you know, Blue Jets fans are always eager to hear a scenario where maybe the perils of the American League East would be, they'd be freed from those to maybe, hey, compete against the Cleveland's and the Detroit's and the Pittsburghs of the world instead of the Boston's and New York's. What did you read into Manfred talking about the potential for expansion and what you think

realignment could mean if indeed we saw it coming down the pipeline? Yeah, so the idea is that, you know, geographic realignment to cut down on travel and wear and tear on players, because it is a grind over the course of a season with all the travel. The idea is to do that, you know, you want East Coast teams to play East Coast teams, more West Coast teams, play West Coast teams more, and therefore you get more hit for the sports networks where, you know, you're going to see West Coast, you're going to have an East Coast game at 7 o'clock where both teams are East Coast teams

and the viewership will be high. And then you're going to have two West Coast teams playing on the 10 p.m. Eastern time or 7 p.m. Pacific time, which will give you more impact for viewership and therefore affect ratings differently for broadcasting. Now, I personally don't see any scenario where I would think it would be reasonable or appropriate, that you would have the Yankees, the Mets, the Phillies, and the Red Sox in one division. Like, I keep reading scenarios where, oh, this will be the Northeast. Like, no, there's no way that that would be fair or appropriate.

The idea isn't to set up a small mid-market, Midwest divisions to give, you know, lesser teams, you know, like Detroit, Kansas City, the White Sox, and the Guardians. a better shot of making the playoffs. I mean, that doesn't, I honestly don't think that they'll get a sign-off on that promotership. I personally, I still like, I don't like, you know, having, you know, eight conferences instead of an American League and a National League. I still, I still want there to be an American League and National League. I don't think that the Mets and Yankees should be in the same division. I don't think the White Sox and Cubs should be in the same division. And I don't think the Angels and Dodgers should be in the same division. I think there should be that

now maybe it'll change and, you know, they'll go to the, you know, the format for the MBA and try to go about it that way. But from my perspective, I think you've got to have a balance of, you know, large markets and middle markets, small markets within the conferences that you're creating in order to be appropriately fair to everybody. With Steve Phillips, earlier today, Mark Shapiro was on MLB network radio and he was asked about Boba Chette's in a potential extension or how talks might be going with him. And he basically said, that doesn't happen in baseball. We don't talk extension in August in September. You know, you're a man who's been in that position.

I guess why is that that that, you know, just isn't a thing apparently in Major League Baseball? And ultimately, like, where you at with Bo Bouchet when it comes to the type of corner? that he might be due for this upcoming winter? Yeah, it doesn't happen in baseball because, you know, with the way free agency works and, you know, the idea for a guy like Pichette, it's not, it makes no sense for him to negotiate right now with one team when he can go out, you know, where there's not a salary cap, there's not a, you know, a salary level or threshold for a type of a free agent player. where you categorize, this is the category where he makes this much money,

this sport doesn't do that. And so it's an open market, unlike other sports with our salary caps. And so, you know, it behooves the player to have eight teams come calling in interest in him. So that, you know, and where the teams can't get a sense as to where the player fits on their payroll and how much they're willing to pay. and so, you know, teams can be led by agents down a path to think, okay, I better keep putting more money in if I'm going to get the player. So, you know, at this point, the only benefit would be to the team, not the player,

to try to get a deal done. We're not getting chased by other teams. So, you know, for Bichette, I think he's an intriguing guy because if he markets himself and says like Bregman did last year, I'm willing to play shortstop or second base or third base, he could end up with 14 teams interested in him. And, you know, with what he is as a player and, you know, as a person, and, you know, he's a contact hitting guy, doesn't strike out a lot, which in this day and age of baseball is really valuable, even if it means a little lesser on base percentage, putting it in play

and, you know, when you fly out to right in the runner tags from second to third, or you drive it to the right center gap and runners on first and second, both tag go to second and third. It seems like it's an out for the hitter, but it's a positive result. And there's no real stat that captures that, but Bichette's that kind of guy because he puts it in play. He is a – he's going to have a lot of people interested. So the number's definitely going to start with a two, I believe, 200 plus million. And, you know, the question is, how many teams get in?

How many years can you start to squeeze and can it end up starting with a three? Steve, when you talk about marketing yourself as a multi-position player, I mean, there's always that feeling that, yeah, you could do that, but a shortstop is going to be more marketable and more highly compensated than a second basement. I mean, how do you think that works in the minds of a baseball executive if you're, you're probably not paying the same price for a guy that's going to play second base for you as you would for a guy playing a shortstop, are you? Yeah, I think it just depends on your team and how much you really want to get the player.

So, you know, if you're the – oh, what team should I use as an example? You know, the St. Louis Cardinals, and they're going to play Brendan Donovan in the outfield. They got Mason win at shortstop. And, you know, they really want that centerpiece guy around which to build. Then, you know, if it fits your team and you're competing with other teams for who are going to look at them as a shortstop, but you really want them, then you're going to pay the price the market says for who he is because you've already got the young shortstop that you can afford, that you don't have to pay that money.

You know, if you're the athletics and you're looking for a guy to build around for the future and you've got Jacob Wilson, who's going to be your shortstop of the future, well, then you've got to spend money anyways because you've got to spend some portion on payroll and you're going to go into a new place and you really think Preset's that guy around which you're going to build, you're going to pay him the premium. So I agree with you that generally, you know, we prioritize certain positions and right-hand hitting first baseman in baseball don't get paid as much as some other players and other positions, but there are players who are the right fit at the right time

that can really squeeze the money out. And, you know, Bregman was one of those guys, right? When you think about, you know, where he was going to go and now he's going to opt out and teams can look at him as a second baseman or a third baseman, and he maximized his dollar value. So I think it's going to be interesting to see. But I think Bershat's going to have plenty of suitors. All right, Steve, we'll leave it there.

Appreciate joining us as per usual. We'll chat again later in the week. It's my pleasure, guys, anytime. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Steve Phillips, former Mets General Manager, PSN Baseball analyst. Steve Phillips, join us on the Maple Toyota Hotline,

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