OverDrive - Phillips on Kevin Gausman's future, if the Jays should consider Louis Varland trade offers, and if Toronto will do some buying at the deadline

Episode Date: July 31, 2026

TSN Baseball Insider Steve Phillips joins the show to discuss if Kevin Gausman is a certainty to be moved at the deadline, if they should consider entertaining offers on Louis Varland, if Toronto could be doing some buying at the deadline, and how much a possible lockout could affect team’s approaches in trades.

Joining us now on the Maple Toadah hotline, Steve Phillips or TSN MLB Insider. How's it going, Steve? I'm doing great, guys. Good to be with you. Good to be with you as well. We were just chatting about how the Blue Jays, you know, they're five and a half games out of a playoff spot. And in other years, when teams are five and a half games out, they still might be considered buyers or contenders being, you know, somewhat relatively close. It doesn't seem like the Jays are happy about where they're at. No, I think that it's one thing you're five and a half out and your five games over 500.

It's another when you're 10 games, nine games under, right? I think that that's the difference is they're not playing baseball like a playoff contending team. It just doesn't feel like it's there. The energy's not there. Kevin Gosman actually, you know, that they don't feel as close as they did a year ago. A part of that is that, you know, when you're not winning or when guys are really struggling, it's hard you get so introspective that you don't connect. with each other because you're lost in your own head.

And it feels like that's kind of where many of the Jays are right now. So, yeah, to me, they're sellers. I don't think there's any question about that. And we're going to start to see, you know, some of those, the Gossmans and Beavers and Varshos and guys like that start to get moved. So when you look at those, I mean, we were just talking about when you're a GM, Steve, and you've got a guy you very well probably will trade in Kevin Gossman. Is there any sort of motivation to say, hey, Kevin, maybe you don't start tonight.

Maybe we just, maybe we sit you down, maybe we just protect our assets, and, you know, you can go but your merry way when we trade you before Monday at 6 o'clock. How much do you think that would be factory into Ross Atkins' decision-making process in the lead up to time? I think it should. Yeah, I think it should. I think the Mets scratch Freddie Peralta from his start because they're going to trade. them. And I think that it's important that if you're going to bring back assets for the organization and if you get out from under some of the money, I think it's an important thing to do.

You know, it's the right thing to do. So, you know, I would scratch guys and just tell them that, look, we're not going to take a chance with doing anything just to protect it. If nothing happens in the trade market, then we'll probably right back into the rotation. But as it stands right now, we've got to make sure we're protecting this moving forward. So I would definitely be taking those sorts of precautions. Well, what about the sentimental aspect of it? The Gosman's been here five years. He's been a cherished member of the team, a really good citizen,

expressed his love for the community and all the rest of it. And, you know, he wants that last start, or at least he's talked about how there's certainly been a sentimental aspect to it. Does that factor in at all, Steve? No. I mean, you know what I'll do is, you know, I'll give him a bigger hug and hold them a little bit long. And then pat him on the back a little bit harder.

And, you know, give them that opportunity. You know, if a trade happens, you know, it's the handshake and hugs in the dugout, right? That it happens during the game. And then, you know, you can flash on the scoreboard. You know, Kevin Goss has been traded and let him come out tip his cap to the crowd. But I don't – I'm not going to give him the start out of sentimental value because it's not – I get it. Emotionally, I would want to be able to do that, but it's not the right thing.

If you let him pitch and he gets hurt and you can't make the trade and you don't get out from the money and you don't add the prospects to the organization, it would be baseball malpractice. Steve, there seems to be an ongoing debate that's been happening for a couple of weeks now when it comes to Louis Varland, who just continues to increase his trade value. Like, what's that debate like in the front office do you think right now between, Goss Atkins and Mark Shapiro and, you know, the rest of the front office personnel when they're discussing the possibility of moving on from Louis Varlane. Like, what type of package would it take for you to say, okay, yes, let's do it?

Or, Steve, is this a player that's just too good that you think could be part of your team long term that you wouldn't even entertain an offer on? Yeah, I would never say anybody's untouchable. But what I would tell teams is that you could try to knock my socks off and throw offers at me. I'm not really looking to negotiate on it. So you can try to wow me to get me to trade them, but we do think we're going to be able to compete next year. We think he's part of that answer for us for next year. It doesn't mean that, you know, that there's not a way I'd move him, but I don't know what the price is. I'll only know it when I hear it. So knock yourself out

and let people come at me with it. And they might. You know, they might. And I would say no, no, no, no. say like, oh, oh, maybe. But I would really let them, you know, keep coming at me with it. Because, you know, I mean, when it comes to closers, if not Mason Miller to be moved this year, you know, Luke Weaver's a guy that has saved some games that I think the Mets are listening on a little bit. But Varland's a whole other, you know, level, you know, between Luke Weaver and Mason Miller that, you know, I think it would take a really significant package to do something. Steve, I read your great piece on tsn.ca, which I would highly recommend to everybody,

how the Blue Jays should approach the trade deadline, is the headline. And you know, you do a great job in analyzing. You even offer some predictions of where you think various Blue Jays will end up. You got Gosman going to the Cubs, Bieber to the Rangers, Springer to the White Sox. But I wanted to ask you, like, in a lot of the trades that you're sort of predicting, and it's not easy to do, obviously. It's not hard to see the forest through the trees at this time of year, I understand. But you're talking about the Jay's getting second-tier prospect, third-tier prospect,

one or two of each for various players. How much do you think the Blue Jays would also be trying to, at this point, acquire actual major league players with club control so they could sort of advance the cause of next year? So I think that when you're trading away the guys that they have, I don't think they're of the impact that you're going to get Major League players in return. I don't. I just don't think that these deals are going to bring those guys back.

I would rather bring back more impactful, lower-level players in these deals, but I would be shopping for Major League players if the Angels are trading Redepmers or Jose Soriano. I'd be interested in one of those guys for the rotation for next year. and the one I would actually think really be interesting to consider is if the Mets want to trade Francisco Lindoor and you need offense, he's got a no trade clause, but Ross Atkins, Marksapiro, were in Cleveland when Lidore was there. You know, there's a lot of talk. The Mets are wanting to maybe separate Soto and Lindor and that they don't seem to be getting along together. And I don't think Lendor is the problem in that. He's got five years left on his deal. But if I could include Andre Semenez in that trade, who, oh, by the way, I don't know if you know,

is going to start making $23 million a year next year for the next three years. That in Lindor is making $34 million, I would, you know, I would consider something, you know, some prospects with Jimenez to get Lindor and you get an offensive shortstop who I think the fans would love in Toronto. he's a special guy and a community guy, and he's got a smile that lights up a stadium. That's the sort of thing. Now, that may be more of an off-season spray, but something that that's the sort of thing of looking ahead to next year,

because the Js have a lot of money coming off the books. If you trade Jimenez in the deal, some of the money coming off the books is going to have to go to offense anyways, and Lindor could be some part of that. So I don't know. I would think creatively right now, And I would not just sell, but I would buy for the future while selling for the short term. How hard is that to do you think with this impending threat of a lockout where teams,

whether it's a salary cap that could come into place or the fact that there's going to be no baseball next year? Like, how does that also factor into these big blockbuster trades that could be on the table? Yeah, so I think for big money guys, it might factor in a little bit. but I mean, look, if there's a salary cap, it's going to be grandfathered in. I know the first offer from the owners wanted, you know, that everybody needed to be in line at $270 million at the cap by next year. It's just not going to be possible. No team should have to trade away good players just to get under the cap, you know,

that's starting immediately. You've got to give them some time to get there. So, you know, with the J's a lot of money coming off the books, I'd be okay. you need to add offense if you're going to compete next year. It can't go back with the same group. And so I would be open to adding some. And you know, you're not going to get nuts with it. But I think that I don't worry too much about it right now, not knowing what the rules are.

And then understanding they've got to have some grace period to get there. But, you know, when there's talent available, I'm jumping in. With Steve Phillips or MLB Insider, it's been pretty quiet so far. We got three days of the deadline, so still plenty of time for things to heat up. We had that minted trade last night, going from the Mets to the Twins. What do you think is the log jam here? Is there a domino that we're kind of waiting to fall before things start to happen? Oh, yeah.

It's supply and demand. I mean, you've got seven defined and determined sellers and 23 potential buyers. And maybe it's 8 and 22, but it's, you know, and so. if I'm selling and I've got the supply, I'm going to squeeze all the teams that want the players for more. Because so many teams are in, some teams are going to wait through the weekend. It's going to be a late popping deadline because there are so many teams who are still figuring out around the bubble. Do they want to buy?

Do they want to sell? How aggressive are they going to be? Even teams with the same record could take three different approaches. You know, all of them that are two games out. One could stand pat. One could buy. the other one might just say, you know what, let's sell a little bit and tip to our way into it because we're here earlier than we thought. So it's a weird market.

But I think that Sunday and Monday are going to be very active. You look back on your days behind that desk, Steve, as a GM at a deadline. What stands out is the most stressful moments? Like how stressful did it get for you? Oh, it's, I mean, it's, you know, for me in the large market of New York, it was the noise, you know, and I tried to block it out as much as I could. You know, the, you need to do this. You have to do that, the expectations of what you need to do. And, you know, one of the things that drove me the craziest were leaks because I believe that knowledge was power.

And I did not want anybody to take my power. I didn't want people to know what we were doing. That inevitably, things would leak out, you know. And you're sitting there trying to figure that out to the point I was checking phone records to see, you know, who was leaking stories and who was leaking information. Because, you know, if I have interest in a team and I want a reliever, I don't want another team that needs a reliever going after the guy I want. It only makes sense, right, to keep that to yourself. So, you know, the stress of that. But, you know, it's the other one that's always so interesting to me is, you know, that two teams are getting close on a deal.

I don't even know what that means because the only time I thought I was close on a deal, was when I was getting ready to dial the number to tell the other general manager, yes, I'll accept the trade. Otherwise, I never thought anything was close. I just, you know, I would never assume that. Because as soon as you think you've got a deal done without it being consummated, somebody else jumps in there. And, you know, that team that has a player can certainly trade them somewhere else

unless we've, you know, documented and reported it to the league what we're doing to get a deal done. Steve, just kind of moving on to something that has really fascinated me over the last couple of days is obviously the show hey Otani situation. You know, he hasn't been pitching for almost a month and now obviously was pulled from the game yesterday. I'm looking at some National League MVP betting odds right now. Otani minus 125. Pete Crow Armstrong has crept up to even money at plus 100. When you prognosticate the rest of the season, and you look at the MVP race,

Otani or Armstrong the rest of the way, who do you feel more comfortable with? Yeah, it's interesting, right? It's a really good call. I would suspect I'm still going to go Otani. You know, one of the things about PCA is the second half of the season last year, it all fell apart on them. And, you know, for a young guy, when that's what happened, you know, what's going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy?

How much has that left the mark on him? How much when he takes an offer does that creep into his head that, oh, boy, could this be things starting to unravel on me? For Otani, I don't think that stuff Ibron enters his mind. And, you know, he still has pits quite a bit. I think he will pitch again. And so, yeah, I'm not, I would still lean toward Otani right now, but PCA, when you look at the winds above replacement, what he does defensively and how much that garnishes his numbers and in Rams. up his numbers. I think it's one that I understand why he's in the mix there. And he's got a chance to be back-to-back years of 30 homers, 30 doubles, and 30-stolen bases, which is stuff like

Jose Ramirez has done that. And it's, you know, it's not a common thing that people get done. And he's got a chance to do it back-to-back years. So he's having a special season. But I think that too close to call for me right now. So, Steve, and your TSN.com piece, you've got a little bit off-the-board. pick because I know the Dodgers, as they always are, the favorites to land Tari Skubel and get the big prize like they always seem to do. And yet you believe, according to your piece currently up at tsn.ca, that it will be the brewers that land scoble before the deadline.

What makes you believe that? Well, Milwaukee's going to go for it. And they have a farm system that could allow them to get that done. I mean, they've got the top prospect in baseball and Jesus Made. Now, you know, there's been, I talked about what it might take to get a deal down. People in Milwaukee are, like, attacking me because they're like, you're nuts. We're not giving it. Like, here's the thing.

Do you want to be a team that sustained success and has these nice little players that break into the big leagues? Or do you want to win a World Series? And I think they're at that place right now where they were back in 2008 when they traded for Sabathia. and he went on that great run for them. And, you know, this is the year where you've got Mizorowski at his youngest and freshest, most powerful arm that if you team scoble up with him, you've got a chance to potentially take the Dodgers down.

And if the Dodgers don't get them, then you're that much better because the Dodgers starting pitching when it comes to playoff baseball. You know, I think they've got Blake Snell and Glassnow on the engine list coming back. They are so both unpredictable. And there's a part of me.

me that looks at Roki Sasaki and thinks that he could melt in a big playoff moment. And I know he pitched in the bullpen last year in closed games. I don't believe in his confidence. And so I look at them and think Eric Lauer might be one of their starters in the playoffs. So this is the time for the Brewers to go for you. I mean, listen, he pitched great for them. But you've got Yamamoto. If Otani's knee isn't allowed to pitch, then you've got Sasaki.

and Lauer, Robleski, who's another soft Thompson left-hander, and then Emmett Sheehan, who might be the guy that gets traded in a deal if they get Scoobel. So for me, this is the time if the brewers are ever going to go for it, this is the time to do it. Steve, really appreciate it. As always, I'm sure it's going to be a busy weekend for you with the deadline coming up pretty quick. Appreciate the time, as always.

Okay, you've got it, guys. My pleasure. All right. Steve Phillips, TSN, MLB Insider. You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it. Hello. Oh my gosh.

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