OverDrive - Phillips on the Blue Jays' winning stretch, Kirk's monster bat and Guerrero Jr.'s run-of-the-mill approach

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

TSN Baseball Insider Steve Phillips joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the Blue Jays' impressive stretch, the bats at another level, Alejandro Kirk elevating his game, Max Scherzer's timeline to return, Bowden Francis' rough outings, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. looking to improve his stance and more.

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Includes auto-pay credit, conditions apply. Visit a Virgin Plus store or virginplus.ca for details. Here's Steve Phillips, rts and baseball insider what do you what do you need to see at a max tonight steve that would suggest that it actually might happen we might see a pitch again for the blue jays at some point now i think that that you know some links out of him onto the quality of the stop the fastball velocity the plate of the

breaking stuff but i think it could be more the recovery afterwards because that's been where he's had issues is that afterwards it's the fingers that hurt. It's his thumb that causes him problems. So he's been able to get out there and pitch but in the later part of his outings is where things start to hurt, things start to bother him.

And I think that's where we really need to find out is, you know, is he going to be okay? And the reality is, even if he is, I don't know that I trust it and I don't know whether or not it's going to be productive enough and that he'll be able to bounce back from start to start. So I really look at him as just the icing on the cake, that whatever you get, you get but you can't expect anything. Like there can be no reasonable expectation out of him. You just have to hope that it's gonna be something

that you can get because, you know, how many punches in the gut do you wanna get? Because it's not, you're like, like for me following him, it's not just this year. This has been an issue that's been ongoing for the last couple of years. That know he'll show you something and then he can't take the ball the next time and then he doesn't want to throw because the thumb is the indicator for the arm health and you know if the thumb's not right then

his arm is going to hurt so then he shuts it down and so I think that that it's going to be a very conservative approach from my perspective. If he can pitch, great, but I'm not counting on him to do anything. Steve, have you ever had a player that didn't want to go down and take an assignment like that? I mean, not just disgruntled as like, hey, I don't want to go to the minors, but is it always the common path to recovery to go play in the minors or in AAA before you get back to the majors? Because in other sports you see guys, you know, when they're rehabbing, they step back into that league. Is it just common practice? Have you

ever had anybody that wanted to step right back into the majors? Oh, for sure. See, players don't want to do it. You know, and it's one that they, you know, they're afraid that somebody's going to get hurt. Sometimes they feel, they're afraid that they won't ever come back. That, you know, well, if I go down there, I might not ever come back to the Major League. And there have been a few guys where that's happened, where they went on a rehab assignment and then they weren't very good and they never did get back. They had a catcher with the Mets back in the day when I was playing, Barry Lyons, not when I was GM. But the players have a choice. They don't have to do it. They have to agree to do it. And so they do have a choice. Now, many of them realize that in order to be successful,

they've got to go there, they've got to get themselves back on track again, and so that they can do it for themselves as well as for the team. But there are guys who don't want to do it and I think that if they agree, they may agree to limited time down there. Like I'll make one start but I'm not going to go down there forever. And I think Scherzer is one of those guys who has earned the ability to say I'm not going to go down for multiple starts, but for him, they need to know, right? They, if they have to make a roster move in order to activate him and then he

can't go and you just lost somebody, you know, to waivers or your DFA them, it's not the right thing for the team, but you know, sure. There's, he's a mercenary, he's a hired gun right now. So I think with guys like that, you kind of have to play the game with them a little bit too. With Steve Phillips or TSN baseball insider, Jay's Phillies tonight. I remember talking about the hitting coach in Toronto. It seemed like every year Guillermo Martinez was coming up.

Why does he stick around? Should he stick around? He'd been in the organization for like a decade. They moved off him last year, they brought in David Popkins in a move, a transaction that isn't going to garner a ton of interest. Fans buzz about it a little bit, it's more about the guy leaving than the guy coming in. But obviously Santander signs, that's big news. Scherzer signs, big news.

The Jimenez trade, big news.erzer signs big news the him and as trade big news, you know chase in different free agents This one seemingly has worked better than any other move They made last last offseason Steve because the bats are clicking across the board in every significant stat Statistical category for about the last five weeks the Blue Jays are ranked number one like they're they're doing everything including for about the last five weeks the Blue Jays are ranked number one. Like they're doing everything including hitting with runners in scoring position which has been a curse word or a curse acronym for the last two years in this town. How big of a deal can a hitting coach actually have? Like how much of it is the players clicking? How much of it is a different philosophy and a different approach because

it's obviously working right now. in a different approach because it's obviously working right now. Yeah it's so many different factors go into this right and you know the hitting coach can't hit for them but there is a mindset and hitting is contagious you know but in both directions like if you're struggling and everybody's struggling like it does rub off on everyone and then when guys get going it rubs off on everyone too. But you know I wrote about it today, I mean the one thing that nobody wants to hear, like the click word was internal improvement, right? How many times we hear that from Ross Atkins? Well you know we're looking for some internal improvement and it's like just bring in better hitters. But this turnaround is really about Alejandro Kirk, it's about

Addison Barger, and it's about Ernie Clement. I mean, because Laddie's been okay, he's not been great, but Shett's been pretty good. Springer's had five home runs over this last 15 days, that's been a big part of the turnaround. But it's been some of the other complementary players who had been here and have internally improved. And so I think the hitting and and have internally improved it. So I think the hitting coach is a part of it. I think it's, you know, it comes down to the players though. And you know, so many times the hitting coach could come in and

say the same thing that the other hitting coach did. And all of a sudden it clicks. But that's really more about the players than it is about the coach too. So it matters. You know, I think hitting coaches matter, but I think it comes down to the players getting it done and trying to fulfill their own potential And you know the good news for the Jays and I'm kind of tired of saying it is that Vlad? He's not really hitting yet at his highest level because at some point soon they're gonna need it They're gonna need Santander, but at some point can he please do it like he's been good Vlad

He but he's not hitting for any power and and driving runs like he should. I mean, he's getting on and stealing bases right now. You know, he's got two stolen bases so far this year. So I do think that there's an improvement there for sure, but I'm not convinced it's going to sustain itself unless the horses get involved in it. That's what I was going to ask you, Steve. So what is sustainable here or is the sustainability some of those guys you mentioned cooling off and Vlad and Bichette and everyone else picking it up? I guess Bichette's been pretty good.

Alejandro Kirk. Yeah, Alejandro Kirk is hitting 346 with two strikes on him. The average major league hitter that is hitting 346 with two strikes on him. The average major league hitter that is hitting 170 with two strikes on them. So Kirk is out of his mind right now, but if everybody is averaging 170, it means that he's doing something that nobody else can really do,

and at some point that's gonna fall back to the pack a little bit, right? He can't sustain that. I think that Barger slugging 700 is probably not sustainable. Clement hitting 330 over the last couple weeks is not sustainable. But you know, if they can at least be very good and you know, and add some length and depth to the lineup, then you know they can do it but you're you need your best hitters to be the best hitters right you need the best hitters

to be the ones who carry the offense and that's going to be bichette that's going to be guerrero and that has to be at some point santander to be part of that as well so i think that that you know santander's absence so far has been a big part of where this team struggled early on. And I think that in the long run the quality of this offense is not going to be based upon Barger, Clement and Kirk. It's going to be upon Bichette, Guerrero and Santander. Yeah and Santander, they're slow playing, him even returning to the lineup and Varsho still on the IL. I mean those are two guys immediately that are going to play every day and you know be pretty high in the order and expected to supply certainly power I mean both of them can hit for power but you know you look at the Jays

like it is pretty incredible that they're not getting anything from anyone they acquired last year and again Varsho's been hurt the majority of the season and then you look at the staff like it's the Bowden Francis topic is a daily conversation here in Toronto, Steve, and I'm sure you're aware of it and I know you've talked about it. Because basically, when Francis is not on the mound, they're like a 90-win team. And when he is, they're not. And it's a significant issue.

I mean, he's given up more home runs than any other arm in baseball is Eras bloated he barely gives them four innings when he goes out. I just don't know how sustainable this can be Yeah, no, I would have sent him to minor leagues already I would send him down and try to get him right I think you got to rebuild him and he's There's something in there and we saw it last year, but he's trying to miss bats right now He'll I gave up he walked five batters his last game. That's a guy nibbling around the corners, not wanting to throw it over the plate and have contact. He's got to get reset and I don't think you could do that at the Major League level.

I would send him down. Now if that's in conjunction with Scherzer in the short term, okay. But you know, if not, then I know Uriel Rodriguez has been good in the bullpen, but you may have to put him back in the rotation. Now I thought that it was a lost opportunity that Aaron Savalli demanded a trade with Milwaukee when he was taken out of the rotation for the rookie that came up who throws 102 miles per hour. And he said, I'm a starter, I wanna get traded.

And they traded him to the White Sox. Be careful what you wish for. You wanna be traded, okay, we'll trade you to the White Sox. Like what you talk, you know, be careful what you wish for. You wanna be traded, okay, we'll trade you to the White Sox, good luck, go get him. But he would have been a guy that I think would fit Toronto, especially here in the short term, while they're trying to figure out between Scherzer and Bowden Francis.

So we'll see, you know, and maybe things will start to shake a little bit as we get closer to July that there could be some pitching available. Well that's it. I mean this recent run what they've done is put themselves obviously into the top wild card spot but you know four and a half back of the Yankees the Yankees are in town for I believe a four game series in a couple of weeks so you've got a lot of swing games still to be played.

A lot of baseball left trade deadline still a little ways away. We'll see what comes of it. Great stuff Steve. Appreciate little ways away. We'll see where it comes in. Great stuff, Steve. Appreciate you doing this. We'll do it again soon. All right, you got it, guys. Have a good weekend. Happy Father's Day as well.

Yeah, you too. You too. There he is, Steve Phillips, our TSN Baseball insider. Hey, this is Ruby Carr, the host of the podcast, Encore. You know how some artists grow to kind of hate their big hit? This is one of those stories, but I promise, still a likable one. Tune in this week to Encore, the stories behind the songs you love, or the incredible story of Vanessa Carlton's 2002 hit, A Thousand Miles. I recorded the episode

while riding a piano around New York City. Not really, that would be cool though. Listen to Encore on the iHeart app or wherever you get your podcasts for stories behind all the songs you love.