OverDrive - Phillips on the Jays’ bullpen struggles, the status of the Jays’ rotation, and the importance of winning the AL East

Episode Date: August 29, 2025

TSN Baseball Insider Steve Phillips on the Jays’ bullpen struggles, the status of the Jays’ rotation, and the importance of winning the AL East.

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Visit bell.ca for more details and to check availability. Bell, Internet, just got better. Not later in the hour. Here's our baseball insider joining us here on the Maple Toyota Hotline. Here's Steve Phillips. You're not a Lions fan, are you, Steve? Of course I'm a Lions fan. The Packers can't, Packers aren't going to be in the Super Bowl.

They can't get past the Lions. Come on, Steve. Did you guys hear Michael Parsons got traded? Yes, I heard about that. Pretty big news down there, isn't it? Seems like it's pretty big news. Oh, my gosh, yeah. Yeah, it's crazy.

It is. The NFL rules. I mean, it really does. They have, you know, now, you know, the owners in baseball will tell you that it's in part they rule because of the salary cap. Right. And, you know, but that's, I don't, I don't think that's true. I think it's because, you know, every game is an event and, you know, they, you know, 17 games and, you know, it's an event versus, you know, a marathon. And so I just think it's a different thing to consume from a fan's perspective.

But, yeah, the small market orders will tell you, that could be us. That's right. We just get a salary cap. Yep, that's right. And here's a scenario where this is the Yankees trading, you know, Aaron Judge to the pirates, you know, in terms of market size. And in terms of like, like Green Bay's got, whatever, 200,000 people in that town. And Dallas and the, you know, the Cowboys are worth more than any other franchise in the world. It's pretty incredible.

but it does just fall in their lap because the Packers were in Dallas week four on Sunday night. Like that just you can't beat that and that's the end of the baseball season. Like you guys are going to be on MLB Network breaking down all the different playoff situations on that Sunday and the whole world is going to be watching Packers Cowboys on Sunday night. Like it's going to be crazy. I'll be watching the MLB Network. I will be yes. I appreciate that.

I will be for sure. And Matt Cause will be watching. and Cosmovie network as well. That's right. Dave, I think you might be watching it, although I think you might flip over, have two TVs on at the same time. Yes. That's right.

Yeah, that's right. I'm a two TV guy. Absolutely. All right, Steve. Well, hey, man, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you a place where the NFL does not rule because baseball is ruling Toronto right now, Steve, as you know. And we are in for, we hope, a great series here with the two best teams in Major League

Baseball down at the dome with the bruce. Brewers in town, the National League, Major League leading brewers in town, Steve. And we just had Eric Kratzom. We were talking about this Brewers team, and he was saying how similar their story arc and the way they play baseball is to the Blue Jays. A little bit of an unexpected magical season where they're at the top of the standings when very few people thought they would be. I mean, how seriously should we be taking these brewers?

Oh, my goodness. I think very seriously. I mean, they don't have the best record in baseball. for no reason. I mean, this is a very balanced team. They're tops and runs scored, runs per game, and they're like 17th or 18th in home runs,

although the month of August they've started to hit more. But they've got outstanding starting pitching. They've got a big three in Woodruff, Peralta, and Mizorowski, and Kentana's been a great number four for them, and Quinn Prester's been a great number five for them. I mean, it's got

ten double-digit wins and an all-stars. So, I mean, there are five deep in starting pitching, kind of like the Jays are. But the bullpen has been better than the Jays. Now, Tyler McGill, their closer is on the injured list with a flexor tendon strain. I'm hearing that it's minor and that it's just giving them a bit of a break. But they've got outstanding setup man in Uribe and mirrors. And so they've got some good arms and Ashby out in the bullpen from the left side. And they are a great defensive team like the Blue Jays are. So, yeah, they're Similar in some ways, I do like the Brewer's bullpen, though, better than the Jays.

I wrote about the Jays bullpen today for .CA and, you know, a 5.40 ERA since the trade deadline. It's now the third worst, only because Atlanta gave up all the homeruneration yesterday. The Jays had the second worst bullpen ERA going to the yesterday, and then it changed because Atlanta now is the second worst, and the Jays are the third worst. But also, the Jays have the second highest walk rate. out of their relievers since the All-Star break. And that's the problem. If you look at the numbers for their relievers since the All-Star break,

they're all, you know, eight walks and ten innings, you know, five walks and ten innings. You know, Sir Anthony Dominguez, I think, has nine walks and eight innings. And, you know, you cannot put extra base runners on. And it really seems like it's an entire, it's been contagious, that unwillingness to get strike one, to work ahead in the count, to throw it over the plate, that there's this thought that they need to nibble and miss bats,

and that's where they really, I think, have the biggest disadvantage in this matchup. Yeah, the bullpen, it was a wild ride a couple of nights ago where, you know, Hoffman blows the save in game two of the series and then comes back out in a carbon copy situation and ends up getting the save and it got a little bit dicey there. But what does that say of Schneider's approach here? He may not fully trust Hoffman, but does he trust him more than any other option?

Is that basically what he's saying? Yeah, right. So the one thing about Hoffman, to give him credit, right? For a closer, the key is that once you blow a game, what do you do the next time out? And I went through and looked at his seven blowing saves. And, you know, through the first six of them, he actually came out and did a really good job. I get through the first five of them and got zeros the next time. You know, either didn't get, you know, just got an out, got out in an inning, or he got a

Got to save, but he didn't give up anything. But then he had the back-to-back blow and saves at one point. And so he does have that ability to flush out the bad day and come back to next day, which is a great trait for a closer. It's just that he's having too many opportunities to have to prove that he can flush it out, right? I mean, the seven blown saves is the second most. I think Rand Helsley, who's with the Mets now, who's really struggling out of their bullpen and who is the closer at St. Louis has eight blown saves.

So, you know, it's been an issue, and it's one that I would stick with Hoffman, but in the meantime, because I don't think anything dramatic right now sends a message of panic. But what I do is I really do think that in the playoffs, they're not going to have Lauer likely or Burios in the rotation. I mean, if it's three starters, then it's going to be Gosman, Scherzer, and Beaver. if it's four, Bassett probably is that fourth guy. And so I really do think that Breos and Lauer will be options in the bullpen, and I think they need them. And I think that, you know, you don't have to say that I'm going to close somebody else, but there will be a time when, you know, it's gone extra innings

or, you know, Hoffman's in trouble, you need to take them out, or do you throw it through back-to-back days and he's not available to really give somebody else that shot there? and I think it's likely Burrios for me. I would love to see that for him. I think he's got a resilient arm and that wipeout sweeper that could be effective. But I think he's got to gradually try to at least build in some protection for somebody else in the late innings, even if he doesn't use them for the night.

Steve, some news down at the dome today with the idea that Anthony Santander is expected to take batting practice today. He's going to travel with the team after this series down to Cincinnati. and there's this idea that his rehab stint will start shortly thereafter coming off this shoulder problem that's kept him out of the lineup since late May. We were just talking Hayes and I about how integrating a guy who's notoriously slow starter, as good as he can be, 40 plus home run guy a year ago, had a really slow start to this year, partly because of injury, of course. This is going to be a challenge for John Schneider to integrate him and find a way to get some use out of that bat. not sort of hurting the integrity of a lineup that's been working really well. How would you approach that?

And what's your level of concern that it sort of upsets the chemistry of the team? Yeah, so it's a tough one. It is a tough one. You know, I think that as long as Laddie's hamstring is okay and he'll be at first base, he can use the D.H hole and play with that a bit. Now, you know, Ty Francis is getting some of the pass, and he's done a nice job, Ty France so far. You know, I don't want to mess up Barger getting at bass,

but he is struggling a little bit right now. And so I think it's going to be a challenge like when the Yankees had Stanton come back. And, you know, they had, you know, Grisham hitting home runs in the outfield and, you know, Dominguez kid in the outfield performing well and, you know, where were they going to fit everybody with Bellinger?

But, you know, those things tend to work themselves out and thank God that Stanton came back when he did because he's carried them for a while, even with Judge's elbows. So, you know, I think that, that you're right. It can disrupt the rhythm of the at-bats where guys could be frustrated, and it's going to take really good teammates right now to just accept and welcome him back in.

And, you know, it behooves everybody if he gets in and swings the bat well. Right now it's not about who's getting the playing time. It's about let's win a championship. And they're going to have to put that in the forefront. And that's the same for Judge Snyder, that he's going to have to, He can put Santander in there, but in the end, this isn't a time to give him a runway to get right. This is a time to win games. And so his rehab assignment needs to be one where I think they make it extended until he proves he's ready to hit and locked in.

Then you bring him back. And if he's successful right away, then you've got a great problem you have to deal with. Otherwise, you're trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. And I don't think you can even try to do it. You've got to try to win a game. So we got Shane Bieber on the Mount tonight and Nanny looked good a week ago tonight but this is another long layoff, right?

They went with the six-man rotation. They had an off day yesterday. First start at the Rogers Center as a Blue Jay. What is your expectation for him tonight? Yeah, I think the same thing as he did last week. I mean, I think he's like the moment's not too big for him. He'll thrive on the energy of the fan base and the support he's going to get.

And, you know, the extra time doesn't bother me for him either. You know, on rehab assignments, you tend to sort of spread it out a little bit anyways in a little longer. So I think that none of that's going to affect him. And if it does, it would only be early, and then he'll get locked in and settled in. You know, he's got such an assortment of pitches that if something's not working early, he always has something else to go to, which is nice from a pitcher's perspective, that if you don't have the feel for your curve ball, okay, let me throw my slider,

let me throw my cutter, let me use the change up a little more, and I'll find my way until I get a feel for the curveball. So I expect much of the same from him, and that's, boy, you love having him pitch the first game of a series. You know, you run him out there, the level of confidence in a big series against Milwaukee, a very good team. Peralta on the mount, it's a great matchup. And this is going to be a fun week in a baseball.

You've got the best record in the American League, best record in the National League, and two really fun teams to watch. it is going to be really a weekend to go watch games up there. Dave, I mean, there's concern, of course, that there's two pretty hot teams right on the heels of the Blue Jays with the Yankees and the Red Sox, what they won, four and five in a row, respectively. The Yankees have got a few more against the White Sox.

The Red Sox got a few against the Pirates. Not that you can take any team lightly in Major League Baseball, but, you know, what is your level of concern? that, you know, the Yankees are mashing. They're heating up. The bats are incredibly hot right now. And the Red Sox are a really young and intriguing team that's on the rise here. I mean, this is not going to be an easy fight here.

And how do you handicap it? Yeah, I look at it and say, bring it on. Like, let's go. We're the Blue Jays. Like, bring it on. Like, we've got a three and a half game lead, four in the loss column for a reason. And we have the tiebreaker because we kick your butt. So bring it on.

Like, you know, you guys can. try to catch us if you want. And I think for the Jay's, you know, one of the things that's always good is to strive for the thing in front of you. And as opposed to looking over your shoulder. And I think that, you know, so you know, for the Mets right now,

they now close the gap on the Phillies where they can start. They've got something to charge for instead of worrying about looking at the Reds on their heels in the playoffs trying to catch them. And I think for the Jays, maintaining the best record is a really good thing. Think of what the home record the Blue Jays have, they need to

be the one seat. So beat Detroit, stay ahead of Detroit. That's got to be the goal to forget about the Yankees of Red Sox. They're not going to come close to us because we're going to keep winning because we want the number one seat because, I mean, with a 42 and 22 record at home, you want as much of a home field advantage as you can throughout the entire playoffs. And they've got that opportunity in front of them. So I don't think you even worry about looking over your shoulder. I think you just charge ahead. Absolutely. And, you know, we're talking about this at 4 p.m. that this is a marquee weekend. Every game's important, every series is important,

but you got the top team in the NL and the Brewers, you got them and the Tigers, the J's and the Tigers from the top two teams in the American League. It's a hugely important litmus test, but at Yankee Stadium next week, and then they got the Red Sox, I believe, the following week. Like, those are the two series, right? Like, you stay in a moment,

they're all going to pair at the same cliches, one game at a time, one pitch at a time, one at a time. Right. This will be significant, And you can make a statement that I think can ring out throughout baseball. But in terms of just the American League East and the chase, like that three-game series next weekend at Yankee Stadium,

that's as big as it gets. Yeah, no question about that. And I'm hoping to get down to one of those games there as well. I think it's going to be so much fun to watch. Those teams go at it. And the way that they've lined up the pitching, they've got it lined up to get their guys, you know, their main three lined up for that Yankee series.

and it'll be these same three. It'll be, you know, Gossmann and Beaver and Scherzer lined up again for that series next weekend. And so the Jay's got it lined up the way that they want, and you can't let any one game or anything happening in the standings to deflect or distract you. You've just got to keep playing your best baseball.

One pitch at a time, one inning in a time, one game at a time. I'm going to throw that constrain at you. And so I'm just, I'm prepping you for what. that you're going to hear from the players. But I do think that that's the way they have to. They can't worry about winning games. They've got to win pitch, one pitch at a time.

When you do that, you end up winning enough games. Hey, Steve, I really liked you. You were talking earlier in the chat here about your column on tsn.ca about the problems with the Blue Jays bullpen. And maybe you can just expand on that a bit. I mean, you pointed out really something that I hadn't considered, you know, maybe as much as you had, which is that, you know, they're not really challenging hitters in the way they should.

should be. And we've heard that, you know, Ross Atkins came on this show, we talked about how that is the mentality they're encouraging is to challenge hitters and to, you know, to not be afraid to throw strikes. Don't nibble around the edges. Don't be afraid. And consequently, don't be afraid to get hit. But they're having

a hard time finding that balance. Why do you think that is? Yeah. I think that it's confidence is what it is. I do. I really think it's confidence because when you throw a good, when you throw your fastball and they hit it, and you think yourself as a pitcher, oh, okay, well, I better make the perfect pitch.

I better throw it right on the corner. I better throw it right up in the spot I want in the zone. I can't make any sort of a margin for error. And then what ends up happening is, oh, it's ball one, ball two. And then what you have to do is you actually have to throw your fastball over the plate to get back into the count, and that's when they whack you. And so, you know, and so the courage and confidence to throw the first pitch over for a strike is so critical, whatever that is, to throw it for a strike, even if you catch more of the

plate than you want to, because then it changes the entire at bat. Then you can start a pitch on the plate and break it off, and the hitter sees strike because he just saw a strike, and he can then start to chase. When you're not starting it on the plate, they're in take mode because until you're, and so what they do, they keyhole you and say, if it's not right down the middle, I'm going to take it. And so there's a mentality. And look, this feels contagious in their bullpen right now, that they all feel that way. You know, and maybe, you know, Hoffman's got, is tied for, or he's got the second most home runs for any reliever, any pitcher has just been a reliever all year. He has 12 home runs.

He's allowed Hoffman. The guy in front of him was Chad Green, who had 14 who got released. So he's now among active pitchers, the guy with the most home runs allowed that's exclusively been a reliever. And it's because sometimes he falls behind in the count. and then he's got to throw it over the plate. And then the hitter is in command at that point. So this has to be a mentality. And the other thought I had was if Burrios goes down there,

you've got a fresh personality, a fresh approach, a guy who is more of a strike thrower, and you can start to get guys talking about, get in the zone. You've got to throw a strike one, get ahead. It takes confidence and courage to do it, but they've got to make that adjustment because ball one, ball two,

you bring a guy in with runners on, He walks the first guy. All it does is compound the problem. And they're doing it because they want to avoid contact. Trust your stuff and trust the best defense in baseball. Trust them that if it's put in play, they'll make a play for you. But do not give them extra bases and extra base runners. All right, Steve.

Enjoy the weekend, buddy. It's going to be a good one. We'll do it again soon. Thank you for this. You got it. Thanks for having me guys. There's Steve Phillips. You too.

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