OverDrive - Pronger on the Maple Leafs' offseason direction, Tavares' future in Toronto and the Sabres' challenging climb

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

Hockey Hall of Famer and Stanley Cup Champion Chris Pronger joined OverDrive to discuss the Maple Leafs' roster construction, John Tavares' fit on the team, replacing Mitch Marner's skill, the direction of Toronto's lineup, the Sabres trading JJ Peterka to the Mammoth, the Red Wings' foundation and more.

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The station that champions Canadian music. Loud, proud, and all yours. No passports required. Just press play. Tap into Made in Canada now on iHeartRadio.ca or the free iHeartRadio app. Hockey Hall of Famer, Chris Pronger, back on Overdrive. How you doing, Prongs?

I'm great, gentlemen. How you doing? Doing well. We were just talking about Brad Trelevich speaking about John Tavares. And we've been talking about him for years and certainly weeks leading up to this. I'm curious how you evaluate John and what you would project him to look like and play like and how he might produce over the next three or four years. Well, I think he's never been a great skater.

He's a smart player. He's not a burner, so to speak. I look at him, he's Corey Perry-esque in the sense that he's good around the net, he's not afraid to go in and around the net. That's where he scores a lot of his goals. Half-well on the power play can be the bumper, can be on the half-well, can be the down low guy. can be the bumper, can be on the half wall, can be the down low guy, versatile on the power play. But I think as he continues to age,

he's gonna be a power play guy. He's gonna be a power play specialist and he's a third line center. With his pace that he plays at, and watching the finals and in watching the playoffs play out The pace of the game is only going north. It's not going the other direction Prox assume like if you when talking about John Tavares Would you think that his biggest desire or reason to return to Toronto is he likes being a may-belief in all the things that?

Come with it, or do you think that he has this maniacal burning desire to finish the job and win a Stanley Cup? To me he seems like a really quiet guy. So I'm not going to speak for him. I get the sense. One of the reasons why he came back to Toronto is he wanted to win in Toronto. He wanted to be a part of the group that ultimately got him over the hump and got him a Stanley Cup. They've had seven years since he's been there and they haven't been able to get over that

hump. This year they ran into a buzz saw in Florida and yes, we can go into the whole ordeal of how it happened. I think he's comfortable. I don't get the sense that he wants to move. I don't know if that's comfort in the sense that he just doesn't wanna out-prove his family because he's comfortable living in Toronto

and he's from there. Or he sees something within the locker room, within the current formation of the team that gives him the comfort that he thinks they can win. Whether he's right or wrong, I don't know. You know, they're obviously, as you guys were just talking about, they're going to lose Marter. And what they do with that money and how they improve their team

and what flexibility, you know, they still got to sign Niaz. They've got some players that they need to sign. They're in pretty good shape everywhere else. They need to improve their top nine. They've got to get more scoring this year and in years past. More balance. Yeah, the issue hasn't been defense. It's been scoring goals at the key times in those moments when they've been needed the

most and that's when they've really struggled is at that opportunistic time when you need a big goal, when you're supposed to be relying on your stars to find those big goals, they're not able to do it. So I'm curious though how you perceive the defense because there has been a I wouldn't even call it a theory I think it's been factual for a long long time that the majority of cup winners have like true number one defenseman you know and I guess you can look at Florida I don't know is that blood that is forzaling that I think forzaling is defensively for sure Jones yeah yeah

Jones possibly but you know those guys aren't know, prongers or Niedermiers or Stevens or, you know, like guys like of that status, Duncan Keith, like Sudeyno Chara, like they're for a long, long time, headman in Tampa. Like it was, you needed a stud 30 minute number one guy. That guy doesn't exist in Toronto, but you know, with that in mind, do you think they can have visions of a Stanley Cup with their current defense setup Well, I think that's the million dollar question I think they have good pieces it's how they how they defend how they play like Morgan Riley for as good a skater as he is. He does not hold the blue line very well. He backs in

you know with his skating ability should be holding the red line let hold the blue line very well. He backs in. With his skating ability he should be holding the red line, let alone the blue line. And challenging players to dump the puck, challenging players. And whether that's a system, whether that's his just inability to do it, I don't know. But I look at just their current makeup, you know, they're pretty big on the right side with Tanev, Carlo, you know, you got Benoit, Riegel. Yeah, you know, so you got some size, you got some mobility, decent puck movers. They're not great puck movers in Tanev and Carlo, but they're serviceable. And that's when you got to pair them with the appropriate player on the other side you get a McCabe, you get a Riley

and then whether it's Benoit or whoever's on that other side on the left in the third pairing whether it's O'Hale or Benoit you have to have a ying and a yang when you don't have a true number one you've got to have a lot of balance between your top six defensemen and I think they can have that I just don't think they've been able to put it all together You know and and as we talk about what Toronto did against Florida

There were moments where they played really really well And then there were other times where they were putrid and just not good at all. And you just wonder how they can, how there's such a wide gap and a big delta between when they're good and when they're not. And I think that's the biggest thing that they have to put their finger on is why is there such a big gap between how good they play and how bad they play. So Prongs, if this team isn't gonna look a lot different, if they end up bringing Tavares back,

you mentioned the Mitch Marner hole. Is it better served to take that, we'll call it 12 million, whatever it is, 11 million, and sprinkle it out a little bit more depth up front? One or two guys that can score? Or do you go chasing a guy like a Marchand or a Bennett that could be a difference maker if they're available? Again, this is wishful thinking.

But do you go chase in those guys or do you look for three guys that could create a little bit more balance farther down in your lineup? Well, I think that's the $64 million question. What are they going to do with that money and how do they spend it? But I think to your point earlier, they have to spend it wisely. They've been up against the cap for so many years, they haven't had any flexibility. They've now traded a lot of their draft capital in order to get the current formation of the team. What makes sense? in order to get the current formation of the team,

you know, what is, what makes sense? You know, you bring up Brad Marshawn. Is he gonna be the same player in a top six role versus a third line role like he was in Florida? I personally don't think he will be. He's gonna be playing against top four defensemen instead of the third pairing. He's gonna be playing against, you know,

just from a matchup perspective, it was a perfect matchup for him playing on Florida's third line. And he was playing with two great, really good players in Lindell and Lois Duranet. And the way that they played, the system, the turnovers that their defense created by having their tight gaps and how, how physical they played, it just fit him perfectly. I don't know if Toronto would be a great fit in that sense, and what you're gonna have to pay him to get him to wanna come there. And that becomes the trick,

are you overpaying a guy, and then does he actually fit what you're trying to do, versus is he just a name and has shown to be a leaf killer in this case? I'm not sure, but I think they have to be very careful in what they do with that money knowing that next year it's gonna go up again and the following year it's gonna go up again so they're gonna have some breathing room but they're also gonna have players coming up too.

Prongs we were talking earlier about all these GMs that think they want to be buyers and that their teams's just a couple players to kind of turn in the corner. Like, I find it personally laughable, and I think there's a large percentage of teams that are a bunch of jokesters, because their teams are just nowhere close. Like, where do you stand on all these teams

or a bunch of them thinking that they're just one thing away or this away, when in actuality they ain't close to squat. Well, especially when you compare them to the teams that were in the Stanley Cup finals. No kidding. You got Edmonton with two superstars in the National Hockey League. You've got Florida with a complete depth team.

They have star players, but they're deep throughout the core of their lineup. And I go back to Chicago in picking up Marion Hossa. He was the last piece of the puzzle. When they got him in free agency, that was the missing piece to what they needed to win. All the other pieces were in place. And for a lot of teams, I think they're seeing, well, we've got room in the cap finally. We've got, oh, we, you know, they have higher expectations or a higher view of their current players, their current roster.

It's GM selling their owner that they think they're close and they want to spend a little bit more money. But I think if you look at the playoffs this year, you look at a few of the teams that didn't make the playoffs, that think they're playoff contenders next year, playoff contending and Stanley Cup contending are two different things. And if you're going to go out and spend a ton of money

and think that you're going to be a Stanley Cup contender, all you've got to do is just look at the rosters of those that are in that upper echelon, that you're going to be a stanley cup contender all you gotta do is just look at the rosters of those that are in that upper echelon and you're gonna realize real quick that you're not even close personal it's gotta be a but that's the top part of our lives and what we're talking about is that i'm not just looking yourself into thinking and we discussed earlier

a lot of guys have a lot of problems and that's why you have to have a real quality assistant GM or a vice, you know, special assistant. Like you've got to have a guy shake you and say, this is insane. But so many people fall in love with these dumb ideas that they have and it's insanity. It's insanity. They fall in love with their players because they drafted them and they've developed them and they're unwilling to get off them. Exactly. Good or bad.

Good or bad. Right. And because they've seen them grow and develop and they've got a connection to them and they drafted them in the first round and then they've had them in the minors and worked up through the system and they've worked their way from the third line to the second line. Now they're star players in the National Hockey League for their respective team. And so there's a connection and an idea that they can get them to the promised land. And for some of them, as we know, they're just not at the level that these, you know,

if you go back to Tampa, now Florida, the teams that have won, what it actually takes and how they ultimately get over the hump to be a playoff team, to then a Stanley Cup contending team, to then being a Stanley Cup winner. There are three different steps there and each one of them is extremely hard. With Chris Pronger, and you know we were talking about Buffalo earlier and they traded JJ Peturka to Utah and they bring in a couple of pieces but Kevin Adams has been there for five years now and they haven't sniffed the playoffs.

They've been to the playoffs in 14 years. It's just crazy, man. I don't foresee them getting there next year either. I don't either and that's the thing. If you're in Buffalo, if you're a season ticket holder there for 14 years, you're going into year 15, they're not making the playoffs next year like what do you sell if you move to Buffalo 14 years ago like just in town and you bought season tickets and you called one of your friends and you're like how's that new team you've

been supporting and you've been like well I've been supporting them for 14 years and they've never gone to the postseason that would never come close so yes by the way the sad thing is the last time they were in the playoffs, I was playing and we beat them. That's the last time. Right, exactly. It's been that long. You were still playing and you knocked them out. But that's an example, man. Detroit's not far off, man. Let's call it as we... I mean, the reality is Detroit hasn't been been in the pleasant a long time either and i don't know what they're doing

again on for their i don't see how they're going to be better like i must they make no game-changing moves yeah i mean that's a choice there are there's somebody within their system makes a miraculous development in all the sudden becomes a all-star right all you should have a word about it development and all of a sudden becomes an all-star. Right. Which should happen.

Where are they finding these players? If Sider turns into some kind of guy that logs 30 minutes and is a... Like, ever since he won Rookie of the Year, you're like, what is this guy now? He's not a game changer out there. That's exactly it. I would argue, like, he's kind of plateaued. Like, he came out great. Like, we were high on him when I worked in Florida. We wanted to draft him. And he obviously went much earlier than we were picking. But well, I really liked him.

I watching him play as a 18 year old, I really liked his upside. And then you see him coming to the league and how he played. You're like, wow, he's like, he could be this guy up here playing 30 minutes a night physical game changer on that department Good puck mover, but whatever however they've managed their younger players there

They just haven't they've gotten a little stale. They just haven't taken that next step in the development curve and Maturation process and you know, whether it's the losing you know it is not easy to continually lose over and over in the league and it can be very frustrating that's you know what the guy like cider I've always felt maybe I'm wrong in this assessment he was a bit overrated offensively and underrated defensively like I don't think he's really Super efficient moving the puck like I think he's a I don't think he's a quarterback on the power play They have them there like that's the thing like a shooter. He plays a shooter and he's an a to b He's a to be he's not a facilitator and in exactly like an Eric Carlson where he's creating

Doesn't walk the line doesn't you know deception, all of that type of stuff. Yes, those are special players that do that. But to your point, Prongs, early on it looked like he had the upside to do that. And I think in the league it sorted him out going, you're right, he's an A to B guy. I think he's pretty good physically down low. I think he uses his body well. He's got a little bite to him. I do think he defensively is pretty strong

when he wants to be, but offensively, I think we look at this guy and go, isn't he supposed to be a 60 point guy? And you're like, that's not a 60 point defense for what he's doing. So how does he change that? Does he need a better partner to play with or does he just be a really good kind of number two

guy? Jamie they could they they need him to be better but they need a centerman better than Larkin because Larkin as good as he is he's not a number one centerman in the National Hockey League and they need a guy in between the pipes that can stop a puck because that's been a laughable scenario for five years men. I like I like Larkin I think he's, but I agree. I don't think they have a number one goaltender. They got the COSA kid coming that maybe has a chance. But I think at the end of the day, I guess my question is, as a defenseman, you can't teach that type of top-end skill at the NHL level to walk the line. Morgan Reilly is a guy who gets points, right?

But he's not a guy who walks the line and creates deception and that. He's a good skater. He does things really well, but there's things he doesn't have that elite offensive vision. But how many do? You look at Quinn Hughes, you got McCarres you got my car you got warren ski i mean the list starts dropping off after that and i'm not sure you are level who shard walk in the line but even the even him on the line is not walk in the

line like those guys is walking the line knowing he's gonna give it to mcdavid or dry cycle that's why i walk in the line is giving it back to one of those two and then he kind of turns and he's able to open up and create from that. You talk about developing defensemen, you talk about Buffalo. What are they doing with Owen Power? First overall, gave a big ticket and what? Who are you going to play them with? Are they now as Kesselring going to be the answer? Is that who they're going to pair them with? Probably.

What about his own play? Like his own play better shoot up the... Well, no, that's what I'm saying. But who's helping him? Right. How do you get to him in the sense that his compete level is this big? He does not push back defensively. He doesn't use his frame.

But to me, that's coaching, that's the leadership around him, that's people in the locker room talking to him, developing, learning the game within the game. They don't have anybody like that there. Yeah, but it should be a scenario. Dahlien's a couple years older than him. There should be a scenario where a free agent, right-handed defenseman or whoever this guy they brought in would be dying to play with this guy because he's so good and he's going to be the next generational talent as opposed to what's happening now is, hey, can you help

this guy along? That's crazy stuff, man. Well power needs to get... If you look at him though... That's Buffalo for you, man. But if you look at him though. That's Buffalo for you, man. But if you look at him. That's the Buffalo Sabres. That's true though, it's crazy stuff. Yeah, first overall pick. I'd like to see him. Sorry, Noodle, once the one thing. The mistake that they made is he hadn't even played 80 games in the National Hockey League and they gave him an eight-year contract for eight and a

half million dollars. He didn't even play 80 games in the league yet. And that, they didn't get a chance to develop them, they didn't get a chance to see the upside, they didn't get a chance to see, you know, what does the ceiling look like? Instead, they just handed him all the money. Oh, Doug, if you're 20 years old and you're given eight and a half million dollars for eight years and you didn't even have to prove anything pretty good life where's where is the

where's the carrot where's the cherry on top yeah i played for the night all that comes from inside i know that comes from inside it comes to drive all which should you know that a player's driven if you're gonna get back at a money well the other other part of this that I could add to that, though, Prongs, is there is, it's been proven, markets like that are afraid to lose their players. Right?

So you get somebody to commit to that market, that's a win. Right? That's really the truth here where we're talking about. There's certain markets that have that fear that go the minute that this guy can walk he might walk and especially though the losing he was he was five years away from walking no i i i i understand that i i i i

understand that you're not worried about losing a player after that that short a term and i know i know what you're saying you're you're talking about all the teams that maybe are on the no trade list, et cetera, for all the players in the league. I get it, but they didn't need to do that with this particular player at that moment. Why not watch him for one more year and then after his third year give him the deal? You don't even have to bridge him.

Just give him the deal. Right. You're going to pay him any... Exactly. You're going to commit long term. There doesn't have to be much of a discussion once he can ask for more after his second year. Exactly. I agree.

You could have completely done that. All right, Bronx. Well, we've got the draft tomorrow, July 1, right around the corner. It's going to be an active week, week and a half in the league. So enjoy that and we'll do it again soon. Thank you for this. Thank you. Appreciate it. There he for this. Thank you. Appreciate it.

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