OverDrive - Siegel on the Maple Leafs' playoff progression, the positives of the team and Stolarz becoming a difference maker

Episode Date: April 23, 2025

The Athletic Maple Leafs Reporter Jonas Siegel joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around the Maple Leafs, the series lead against the Senators, the revamped roster making an impact, Anthony Stolarz's progression throughout the season, the difference makers in the series, Toronto's positives with the roster and more.

That just happened with me, Vashi Kapelos. Canada decides 2025. Stay informed with my exclusive iHeartRadio podcast, available Friday afternoon, straight through till election day and beyond. I'll have your weekly highlights and my unvarnished analysis of the campaign of a lifetime. The candidates, the quotes, the polls, and the momentum.

That just happened with Vashi Kapelos. Canada decides 2025. every Friday stream on your schedule with the free iHeartRadio app. I got a minor snub last night in the presser. I was surprised because Jonas and I go way back. I love Jonas. He's a dear friend of mine. Here he is from the athletic Jonas Siegel. Jonas, I saw you and Cloakie boy last night. You guys were convening a little pep talk before the game.

I thought I got iced out a little bit. I was. What happened? Hazy said you blew him off last night. True or false? Is that what he said? Probably the pageant too. Yeah, that was the vibe I picked up on before the game.

What was going on there? A little athletic huddle before the game. I did not think you were Jeff O'Neil. I didn't think you required a stop and chat and like sit and talk about the world. And we were just getting ready for the game i did not think you're jeff on the i didn't think you require to stop and have a mind didn't talk about the world and we're just getting ready to give it like two minutes for pocket number two number two who is the little grand family's you know how many times i know you're saying

you know you are all over victor metis and hollow wells and then all these cats and all of the and you were loving it. Callie Rosen. Oh man. Splendor. Okay. Well, it is... Wait, so what should I do next time?

You want to have a powwow or a beer? I expected a little powwow. How about this? A handshake. There you go. Let's shake it out next time. But it does feel different, Jonas. You've been covering this team for a long time.

We'll start on defense. You've been covering defense for a long time. You've been covering defense for a long time. You've been covering defense for a long time. You've been covering defense for a long time. You've been covering defense for a long time. You've been covering defense for a long time. You've been covering defense for a long time. You've been covering it does feel different on a secret cover in this team for a long time i'll start on defense like there is no obviously they're up to nothing which is the biggest difference they've never been up to nothing in twenty three years

uh... in a series but there is no discussion about this defense corps and even an odd man out or anything like that has been very balanced the three, all three of them are playing about 20 minutes and they've all, I think, pulled their weight very well. Yeah, that's kind of been surprising to me how evenly they've been played because you didn't head into the playoffs maybe thinking that with that third pair with Beckham, Larson and Benoit. But I think all three have kind of found their roles. You know, you look at that top pair with Cave and Tanev, you know what they're going to do. I think the Carlo Riley pair has been really effective. I think they've broken out cleanest. And then,

you know, Benoit, I didn't think had the best regular season, but you mentioned having Eknem Larson there beside him. I think it's a little cleaner. It's a little smoother. I go back a few years, I was thinking back to some of the playoff, the cores that they've had. And you think back to that one year, I think they had Riley, LeBouchkin, maybe it was Muzzin Hall and maybe the third pair was like Giro, Dano, Lillagren as kind of like in the ballpark, but that's not as good as this. Um, so yeah, it's, it's, it's a development. Obviously they, they rebuilt the blue line last summer.

They continued to rebuild it with the acquisition of Carlo I really like that trade. I think it's worked exactly as as they anticipated as they hoped He has tons of playoff experience and he's fit in really really well with Riley like that was one of our questions heading into the playoffs Would the guy we've seen in the playoffs with Morgan Rielly come back out in the postseason and I think we've kind of seen that. I think it was happening late in the regular season but two goals and two games and if you look at his playoff numbers over the years, I think he's got 13 goals in 58, 59 playoff games and you stack that up against some of the top defensemen in the NHL, it's right up there. Jonas, in your opinion, how much does good fortune play

in all of this? How much do vibes out there, like how kind of, I've been talking about the phrase, the leafiest thing ever, to find a way to lose that one in overtime. Like that just, obviously Ty going into overtime, it wasn't that far off from happening, and then today would be posing the question, how about those Leafs? They just couldn't go up to nothing.

How much is just a positive vibe needed in good fortune to have some success in this playoffs? Well, this is what we've been arguing about all year because it's felt like there's been so many games like that during the regular season where you and I, the three of us would argue about it because did they play that well? And it's like, no, but like they kind of found somehow to pull out the game, whether it was because of their goaltending, whether it was because of their power play, whether it was because like they have these four star players that most teams don't have and they would just find a way to win that game. It

just feels like last night was kind of a replica of what we saw so many times during the regular season where it's like halfway through the game, I'm looking up at the shot clock and they have 10 shots and yet they're up 2-1 or 2-0 at that point. It's like, how is this happening? And yet it didn't ever feel like the game was like totally out of their control. Even when it's 2-2, you don't totally feel like they've lost the plot. And so like I'm kind of annoyed a little bit with, uh, this feels different storyline with them.

Oh, annoying. Something is strong. I don't know. It's just like, it's like, what does that mean? Like this feels like, what does that mean? Something is different about the team. And I don't know if that's just their goaltending is better. Their power play is better.

You mentioned like Hayes mentioned that the defense is better than it's been. I don't know. Like, is it, is it the fact that they have these star players who are like 27 and 28 now, Tavares has obviously had a good year like is it all these things kind of coming together? I don't know but like luck is a part of this for sure and like you go back to some of those series in the past where it's like if this goes differently they win the game and then who the hell knows what happens? Yeah, I think the biggest difference, a big part of the difference is who they're playing. They're not playing Boston, team, but I do think you look at you know I think the five Figures that have been brought in here over the last 12 months That have had a tangible impact on what we've seen through two games and certainly down the stretch would be Borube behind the bench

Very good. He's got a different approach to how he sees the game how he operates I think the way he conducts himself the way he goes about his business, very different. The guy Annette Stolarz who's been outstanding. I mean he's a guy all year, his story is incredible and he's 31 years old. He's basically under the spotlight for the first time in his career. It's an amazing story and he's been great and been so consistent and now look at him through two games, his first two starts in the playoffs, the guy's been outstanding. And then it's Tanev, Carlo, Ekman Larsen like that's it but that's what's

different like you've got a coach a goalie and three big defensemen that's that's what is different here you and that that I think is why you would have a feeling if you're going to get there as a Leaf fan that things might change it's because of those are the different pieces. Those are pillars of the organization that are going to play a massive role in how this is going to play out. And I think we've witnessed that from all of them through two games yet. It's only two games and you turn the page, Jonas.

I guess you'd have to go back to when the Lisa reb three, one on the haves in 2021. It was a different world, different era, different coach, different GM, different team, different goalies, but they haven't been in this position that they're going to find themselves in tomorrow night where they've got a chance to really bury a team tomorrow. They haven't had that chance. They're never in this role when they play the Bostons and the Tampas and the Florida's. What would lead you to believe that they're going to be prepared for that tomorrow night? Well, can I just disagree with you a little bit? Sure. Because I like to do that. Please do. See that feels like a little bit of

like recency bias. Like you think back to their team in 23. That's a pretty good team. Like you can match up some of the pieces from that team with this team and be like, is that better? Is that better? Is that better? Like I think Tanev, I don't think they've had Tanev before like Jake Muzzin is probably the closest thing to TANF and I don't think he's quite in that class or was in that class but he's pretty close they did they had they had Ryan O'Reilly that year like March year Dano the first year if I'm remembering this right was pretty effective including in the playoffs like it wore down as that one playoffs rolled along but like he had effective

moments TJ Brody obviously had some anyway what's different what will be different this year i think the goaltending is like the biggest thing like if you if you look at these two games so far and you're like what is what is the difference in the series to me it's power play and goaltending and so if those two things continue to carry over, they're going to win the series. I don't know how you guys felt about the series coming in. I thought they would win at five, so it's kind of going as I expected. But five on five, the series has kind of statistically been all Ottawa.

But they've also been up two-nothing before you flush in both games. For sure. And they've scored and their goaltending has been really good and this is kind of what happened in the regular season where a lot of nights, it's like they don't really have a lot happening but they're up 3-0 or they're up 3-1 or they're up 2-2-1 or something like that. Yeah, but Jonas, isn't a lot happening kind of like, we talked about it because there was this big fuss of, oh, they don't make plays when they cross the blue line.

The puck was just being advanced and you and Mike Johnston bitch and complain about the dump-ins and you wanted more plays. Isn't that... We like goals. Aren't we at the finish line of what that was in preparation for? Because we've seen in the past where silly plays in the neutral zone and costly turnovers and playing hacky sack Marner and Matthews with the hockey puck inside their blue line against the Panthers and goofy stuff like that, it doesn't work.

It's not sustainable and you don't win with it. See, this is what I don't totally get is that the margins have been, again, like I don't want to rain on your parade but like actually I kind of do but like what Mike and I were saying is do what Mike and I were saying is it's better to be up for one in the game than to be up to one and it felt like so many times this year it was just to one every game and like we hear all this talk well they're really good in close games it's like yeah let me they're not blowing teams away.

Let me just stop you there. Being up 4-1 as opposed to 3-2 or 2-1, that's what used to get them in trouble. And Frank Corrado detailed that in the first hour where it would be like, we're up 2-1, let's cheat for offense and let's try to stretch this thing out and really blow the doors off of them. And then it would be 5-2 for the other team and they'd be just cross-eyed after the game saying, ìI just donít know what happened out there.î So you would rather be up 2-1 in the third period than 4-1.

Well, you'd rather win though, Jonas. Thatís the whole point. Dude, the bottom line is winning and if it means being stupid or safe and smart, sometimes you got to take safe and smart in a tight playoff game because if you're playing against a very effective physical team and you try to cheat, you saw what happened last night. One guy made a stupid play and then he didn't defend the middle ice properly and ended up in the back of their net. That's how fine the margins are. So if anybody wants to cheat and do stupid things, it ends up in the back of your net every damn

time in the playoffs every time counter counter yeah go for it they didn't they didn't struggle defensively in the playoffs in previous years did they uh... well i don't think they've ever been known as a defense in java i usually got blown out of time i i just didn't score and i think like that's the one thing like i don't know about this series. Like nine goals in two games.

Yeah. No, like this series, I don't think is a concern. It's more once you get second round and you're facing Tampa or Florida or third round. I don't know who you're facing at that point. And then like, look ahead to the cup final and you're facing like Vegas or Colorado or one of these teams. That's what we'll see. But like, honestly, like all credit to them so far.

Like they have done exactly what they did in the regular season where it's like what's going on in some of these games, but they're finding a way to win. Like Jeff, you're right. Like that game was very close to going where we are talking about this totally differently, but Max Domi makes a big play in overtime and they win the game and they're up to nothing and they did what they had to do. And like Hayes was saying now you have to close it out. Plus there I think one of the things that has been pointed out is they are comfortable in tighter games like that you don't see the hey we need a home run play here I think home run plays have been there we saw the Matthews to

to Marner stretch pass beautiful play but I think home run plays have been there. We saw the Matthews to Marner, stretch pass, beautiful play. But I think they take what's given instead of trying to force something. I'll give you an example. Drake Bathurst had tried to force something in overtime last night. It didn't happen. It ends up in the back of your net. I think what the Leafs have been able to do through maturity, through systematic play, through that, is take what's given, create a little bit here or there, and when you're given a power play or when you're given maybe open space, that's where you take it, but you don't force everything just because you

need a 10-bell play every shift. I think it was Gio that was talking to us about it, and I've certainly talked to Chris Pronger yesterday, said every shift, you don't have to win every shift. What you need to do is continue to build every shift. You canít lose a shift, if that makes sense, where you get hemmed in and itís momentum.î I think the Leafs have been a lot more methodical down the stretch here where they understand their game and theyíve been more patient within their system. Does that make sense? Yeah. That makes sense. ìPat. Patient I think is the right word.

Patient I think is the right word. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what, Jonas, you're right. Like it always comes back to the goalies. Like Stolarz has made more saves than Allmark. And that's legitimately the truth. Like he has a 950 save, I think it's 957 at five on five in the series.

And Allmark is at like 848. So it's like they didn't, I don't know, like I don't know what you guys think. at five on five in the series and all mark is at like 848. So it's like they didn't, I don't know, like I don't know what you guys think, like thinking back to some of the goalies that they've had, like Jack Campbell had his moments, but like it was always like, is he going to give up a goal in this like big spot?

It was the same thing with Frederick Anderson. It doesn't totally feel like that with Anthony Stollers. Like he hasn't had many games this year where you look at the goals and you're like, yeah, he should have had that one, he should have had that one. Jamie, you would know better, but I still wanna see it over a longer period,

obviously, than two games, where he's starting every other night because he hasn't started like this before. So that's something I'm gonna continue to monitor. For sure, and now it's on the road. Everything's new for him. He's never started a playoff game on the road. He's at home and last change, and again, the Leafs have been up 2-0 quick. Something's

going to change here. I would not be surprised at all if Ottawa's up 2-0 after the first tomorrow. Then you're going to see what you're talking about there. How much patience do you have? How much patience do you want right when does the pressure turn on to the top players for the Leafs to not defend but now you got to go score you know because that that's been an interesting I think evaluation of even Matthews like Matthews I think has played well he's got three assists in the series he's checked pretty well he's been up against tough matchups but he hasn't been in a position where he has to be the guy with the moment you know and that's there come at some point like at some point you're gonna look to that

guy, Matthews, and say you're the best goal scorer in the world, you're the best player on this team, you know, teams down 2-1 in the third period, you gotta go have a shift, man. You gotta go create and score. He hasn't had to do that, that's a benefit to him and the team, that's a good thing, you'd prefer that to continue. Hopefully never has to, but we know in reality he's going to, and Marner's gonna to have to do that. And Willy, where they're going to be chasing a game. And Stolarz is going to have to keep them in the game as opposed to keep the lead. And these are all different ebbs and flows that come with the playoffs. And I would fully anticipate that tomorrow night. And Jonas, I guess Craig Barube indicated he likely won't make a lineup change

tomorrow. Are you buying that? Are you surprised by that? What would you expect for tomorrow? He kind of left it a little open-ended, like the whole I'm still thinking about it, which he kind of does all the time. Like he's always like, yeah, I might change something. But in this case, I think he would have to think about it. And I think there's really only one candidate to potentially come out and that's Nick Robertson. He's played the least minutes so far, which I don't think would surprise really anyone. He's played about 10 minutes a game. He has one shot on goal. He set up the Riley goal in game one, but takes the bad penalty in the game last night.

That leads to a goal. He took some penalties like that late in the year where it's like, ah, like, and I still wonder about Max Batoretti. I think at some point, if they're gonna go on a long run, they're gonna need him for one reason or another. I would put him back in. He hasn't played in two and a half months. So like, it's like, what are you gonna get from him

for a guy who hasn't played since February? I don't know, but I still think they have a hole on that second line with Tavares and Nylander that needs some sort of fix. And like, Hey, as you're mentioning, like when you're on the road, suddenly the matchups actually matter a lot more. And it's like those, that third line, if it's Domi, if it's home bird, suddenly that's like, if I'm Travis green, that's a line I'm going to think about picking on.

So I wonder if all of that kind of swirls around and Craig Breuves mine in the next like 12 hours and maybe he makes a change. Take time. Jonas, I think the idea of Max Patcherati playing about 10 to 12 minutes and hit everything that moves would be an ideal situation. Where it's not like 10 years ago where it was like be our best left winger and be a game changer and a goal scorer.

Just say like a caged animal, you go out there, anything that's breathing on the black jersey side, you run it through the boards. And I think that would be an ideal thing for him. I don't think he's super happy right now about this situation, because like obviously he didn't get to play the last two months because of the salary cap. And then it's like, well, you're gonna come back

for the playoffs, right? And then it's like, well, you're gonna come back for the playoffs, right? And then it's like, actually no, like, we're gonna go with these lines that work late in the season. And suddenly, so like, maybe you're exactly right. Give us 10 minutes, be pissed off. And like, you're just gonna trust him more than you're gonna trust Robertson ultimately for me. Yeah, I think that.

We'll see. I agree with that. And at the same point, you're putting trust in a veteran guy Who's had injuries who hasn't played in a long time too? Yeah, but he has been in that situation a lot Lastly, what was the buzz like in the room last night? I mean Domi scores he was on the ice for the cadet tying goal There's a miscommunication with him and Ekman Larsen. He had an awful game one I'm sure Max was buzzing, but what were you picking up on in the room?

Yeah, you could see it all around him. He hasn't had a lot of games like that or a lot of moments like that where he can just kind of be in a positive spotlight. Whenever he's in a post-game scrum or something, he doesn't really like to talk that much about himself or dig too deep into that stuff. But like Ryan Reeves was around the room, like Jake McCabe was around the room after the game. Like there was like a good vibe in there and you felt honestly like just watching Max Domey the last couple of months, like he has worked, I'll give him credit. Like he's worked hard on his game.

Like that's something I always kind of look for when a guy is struggling like is I can't see everything But I can see a lot of work that you do on the ice and he was working at it like he was working on his shot He was working on his passing like the game before or the day before game one He was going to play with John Tavares Obviously and he was working with Tavares after practice to just develop chemistry to try to build You know have some reps together on the ice. So I don't know, it's a nice moment for him. He's had a difficult year and you could feel it in the dressing room that they were happy for him to get that moment, just given everything and obviously the hometown factors, dad, all

that stuff. Absolutely. Yeah, it was a really cool moment. All right, Jonas, thank you for doing this as always. We'll do it again soon Yeah, I'll give you a big hug the next time I get the Jonas snob let's hug it out. I'll bring the TSN crew you bring the athletic crew We're all we'll meet some how well up there. I love later guys. Thanks Jonas. There's a Jonah Siegel of the athletic Party Together we host the Earth Day Party Podcast.

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