OverDrive - Willson on the Steelers' AFC climb, the Bills in a rut and Tagovailoa's team comments

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

TSN NFL Analyst Luke Willson joined OverDrive to discuss the headlines around Week 7 in the NFL, the Bengals and Steelers' matchup on TNF, Joe Flacco taking the quarterback reigns, the Bills' escalating concerns, the Chiefs at the top of the rankings, Josh Allen's season performance, Tua Tagovailoa's comments and more

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If you smell What the Owen Wilson Is cooking All right hour two Overdrive continues Powered by Fanduel I'm coming around

on Millie Vanilly man It is a good song It's completely fraudulent And these guys were not singing it But it's not a bad tune Partsy we had a very solid last weekend A lot of professional covers These guys obviously

Blind Squirrel Fines and Not Got a little bit lucky For years now. And doggies over here sitting here saying, oh, look, we split the weekend. There was no blood. Doogie's over here tweeting things like, Hazenbro, are on fire? I'm like, we split the weekend. We have been on fire with our pets.

The only miss we had last weekend was Denver in London, England, not covering against the Jets. And these guys want to say that they're on fire? This guy tweets a picture of him and Al's brother every weekend. Sunday at like 5 p.m. We do have a real connection. I love that Alice brother. Partsey, it's personal now. We're going to have to really take these guys out this weekend.

Apparently, Al's brother made his debut on this show six years ago today. With Mike Johnson. Yeah. And I had totally forgotten about that, but he posted that. October 16th, 2019, MJ went to do SportsCenter or something, and Al's brother weasled right in to take part in Jerry's, and he just never left. And he's been a part of the show now for six years.

That's how he debuted. There's the two of us. We're like, well, we need someone else to do this. And this guy used to work in that little hut back there. I don't know what he did. I don't even know what he did back there. But we didn't even have updates. No one knows what he did.

Speaking of this, I meant to tell you guys this. I was, I think I'm in an airport and I met someone the other day who was actually Al's brother. His literal, this is before my time. Like, I don't really know Al, and I didn't know his brother. The original Al. The original Al. Who was not named Al. Correct.

For the record. I met his actual brother. Nice. Yeah. Awesome. You wanted to go. true frauds. I met the real Al's bro. The actual

Al's bro. Yeah. Even though Al is not named Al. Correct. Joe. Yeah. Joe Narsa. Yeah, so I met his brother. At least someone claimed to be his brother. Shout out to whoever that was. Joe Narses' brother. Shout out to Joe Narsie. Oh, we love that guy. All right.

Well, anyway, we got two old guys playing quarterback tonight. Yeah, kind of wild. Yeah, it is pretty weird that Flacco and Rogers are still cooking. How did they get to Flacco? Like, wasn't there another guy they wanted to sniff around that. When you've got a couple of young guys, how do you get to Flacco? It's a very strange situation. And like

the one guy, and we've talked about this on here, that I don't understand why he isn't more involved, is James Winston. Like, James Winston has proven time and time again that he can win football games in this league. And if there's a knock against him and it said he throws too much, a little too careless, you know, well, when you have Jamar Chase,

I don't know, remember the touchdowns Jamar caught last week, was unbelievable. I mean, he was completely covered. I'm like, James is kind of the perfect guy for Jamar Chase. because he's going to throw on the wall 15 times. Exactly. So I don't really know how you get to Joe Flacco, and I'm not sure if you guys saw Tomlin's interview this week,

but I thought that was priceless when he was like, I'm not sure. What do you mean? Why did he say it? Because I think he was sitting there like, Joe Flacco does present problems in comparison to Jake Browning. So it's like, how can the Browns go into the season and be like, hey, this is our starting quarterback, we're going to compete? If you would have told the Browns the beginning of the year,

that front office. Hey, the Ravens are going to be one in five after six weeks. Do you think you'll be in the race in the division? Your assumption would be like, yeah, we'll be three and three with that defense they have. And now of a sudden you're starting

quarterback, you're like, actually, I'm just going to ship them off in the division. It's such a Cleveland Browns. It's a gong show. It's such a Cleveland Brown's play. But, again, from Cincinnati's standpoint, I also don't quite understand. I don't see how Flacco is going to find magic for the whole season and push them into a playoff position.

I don't think it's going to happen. And if you look at the point differential in that division, it is absurd, man. Bengals are minus 80. Ravens minus 50, Browns minus 64 through six games. Yeah. Like, that's crazy. Now, what's funny with the Browns is the Browns defense is actually legit. It's just the offense has been putrid.

The big shocker to me has been Baltimore. It's always to be a well-cocting. I know they're injured. I understand that. But even like you look at teams across the league, when you have good coaches, generally your depth is still, okay, we might not know them as household names, but hey, we can plug this guy in and play. Sam Fran.

Sam Fran's a prime example. You know, they're banged up, but somehow they're right in the thick of everything. And they have a great coaching staff across the board, both offense and defense. So for Harbaugh, to me, it is a big. a bit of an indictment because they have looked, Baltimore has looked horrible. Even Cooper Rush, obviously he's not Lamar. We all know that.

Nobody is. But when Cooper Rush came in for Dak a few years back, he steadied that ship, won some games, kept him in everything. Like, there was chatter that year that Cooper Rush could start when Dak comes back. Back is sitting. Now Cooper Rush looks like the worst player in the league.

Like, what happened? You know it's wild? There's like a time machine going on here in the AFC. It feels like it's 2010 all over again, because the Pats are leading the AFC East, the Steelers are leading the North, and the Colts are leading the South. It's like you've got Manning Rothesberger

and Brady back. That's kind of cool. And it is kind of cool. And I guess I'll ask you, of those three, who do you think is most likely to be competitive by the end of the year? Competitive. In terms of like fighting for they're in the Super Bowl competition? Yeah, like they can make noise in the playoffs. I'm going to say, I know what you're going to say, New England.

Believe it or not? That is up there? Indy. Indy. I know it's shocking. I know. Danny Dimes in the playoffs. It's not Danny Dimes anymore.

It's Indianapolis Jones. Indianapolis Jones, my fault. Different bad. I'll tell you this. Beyond the Indiana Jones stuff, Jonathan Taylor is one of the most unsung hero backs. Like, he's unreal. To me, he's not Henry.

He's not Sequin. He's not CMC, but he's right there. He's right in that conversation. Agreed. So it's like we don't talk about that aspect of it. you know, Daniel Jones, for better for worse, has looked awesome. And I think defensively they have a lot of good playmakers. Even last week, you know, they have, was it Ward that went down in pregame?

And you're like, what the? And he comes out here and balls out. Like, this guy's great. It's a wild scene. You can throw Philip Rivers and the Chargers in there, too. Yeah. Like, this is a throwback in the AFC right now. To be honest, what shocks me a bit, though, is I think 10 wins gets you to the dance this year.

Maybe even nine. Oh, for sure. The third wild card will be nine wins. 100%. Yeah. Have you gone on SportsCenter and done your yearly at the beginning of the season? I love the Bills, and now you don't know what the hell they're doing out there? Have you started that one yet?

Not yet, but I'll be honest, I am a little concerned about Buffalo. I wouldn't panic. In the past, when the Bills fans really hated me, you know, let's call it three, four years ago, I thought Josh was really careless with the football. So it was not like, correct. And now the last few years, he's cleaned that up. And obviously last year in the MVP, et cetera. But where I worry for them now is when you have Josh, you're obviously in any game.

They could have anyone out there. When you have Josh Allen on your team, you always have a chance to win. But with Ed Oliver coming back and getting gashed like they did against Atlanta, it kind of leaves you scratch in your head because you're like, man, there's not a ton of receiver. There's not a ton of talent at receiver. not like a huge one-on-one guy go win. Keon Coleman hasn't really turned into

that guy. King Cade had a good game for he was hurt, but he's probably been up and down. I think that's very fair to say. The run game has probably been the most consistent of their offense. And then you look at the defense and you're like, man, they're not like stout at any level, so to speak. You know, Bosa's

been good. I wouldn't say great. Ed Oliver, I think, is a star, and maybe it was just his first game back, but, you know, is he Jalen Carter good? Your linebackers are a bit older and bit banged up, and your secondary is not great and banged up. So I worry, you know, if your goal is Super Bowl,

you're going to have to really out-scheme guys because if they say healthy, and I know no one wants to hear this, but with Rishie Rice back into the poll this week. Kansas City's your team, huh? Kansas City rolls in there, again, assuming they're healthy, with Rishie Rice, Xavier Worthy and Hollywood Brown as their one-two-three receiver and Travis Kelsey

as their fourth option in the past catching game and their offensive line is better. You can't tell me that Buffalo feels good about stopping that offensive attack. You can't tell me anyone feels good about it, let alone Buffalo. Who do you guys think the Super Bowl favorite is right now? Like in terms of the odds? The odds. I'm looking at Fandle right now.

Philly? Nope. There are two teams tied. It's probably Buffalo or California? And Buffalo and no. Casey? Therefore, Casey. Yeah. Yeah, I guess like that's public money.

I mean, it makes it's a safe bet because they've been to the Super Bowl three years in a row. Packers still third. Yeah. Listen, Packers, Jordan Love still scares me, man. I don't know if he's got the it factor.

It's a bit, like this whole NFL year has been strange to me because, you know, the Eagles are 4 and O and now they're 4 and 2. And that team could easily, we've talked about a million times to be 3 and 3 if Cardi makes those kicks. The bills, we were all talking about,

hey, going undefeated until they see KC certainly have a lot of issues there right now. They're 4 and 2. You know, the Packer, on one point, their own players are like, we might run the table. That's still the best. It's so good. After two games. Yeah, we might run the table. And they've looked, you know, they tied

the Cowboys of all teams. Yeah, and they didn't look great last week. No. They were okay off a bye against the Bengals. You're ready to put that stamp on the Lions, and the Lions let's, for better, for worse, they got absolutely smoked. They got beat up by KC on both sides of the ball. You know, and it's like, well,

and I'm not ready to put the stamp on KC, there were three and three. I think what you're saying is there's no prohibitive favorite. Like there has to be someone. The odds have got to supply A1C, but I don't know who that is either. To put this back in there, they are all flawed.

The weird one for me, and we'll seem nice, where does Pittsburgh fit in this? Like, how good is Pittsburgh? Aaron right now, if you look at his pass rating, I think he's eighth in the league, but his QBR is like 20-something. And, you know, there's some things that go into both those stats.

you know, defensively, they've had a couple of rough outings, but now Tallman's got them humming a little bit. They're creating turnovers. Like, can Pittsburgh be dangerous? I don't think so, man. I don't know if they can get to the finish line. That's been their problem. Like last year, they were very dangerous. Remember one of the last years, I think the last year where Rathlisberger was like fully healthy and they were 14 or 15 and O.

Yeah. Or whatever it was late in a year. Then they lost the last game or two. And I think they lost in the wild card round and just got punked and it was brutal. And last year, the same thing. At one point, they were nine and two or whatever it was, and they lost their last four games. Totally. I'll be honest, if the Super Bowl were today and someone's like, you have to pick who you think would be in it, like next week. I know who you're going to take.

I would say Kansas City versus Detroit. I think it's a rematch of what we just saw. I know it's a bit – I don't feel great saying that. But who's beating Kansas City right now? Well, I do think there's teams in the AFC that are capable of doing it. I still think Buffalo can and will. I'm going to stick with Buffalo. Like, I know they're coming off two losses, and it hasn't been overly impressive.

Do you think they'll trade for a receiver? Yeah, I mean, they traded for Mari Cooper last year, I believe it was. Then didn't use them. This is another thing that I would wonder. It's like you trade for Mari Cooper and you don't really use them. You go out and you get Josh Palmer, and I think they're paying him 12 shmell a year. And you don't use them. And then last week, it's like, hey, we've got to get them going.

So they hit him on a 43-yard bomb first play the game. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, he got hurt. He did get hurt. But he doesn't even play every snap. Like, when I saw that, I'm like, okay, they've done their film research. They've talked this over. He's going to be, you pay a receiver $12 million. He should be your number one guy.

Or at least one B. I was having that conversation the other day with my dad because we're watching the Packers. And early in the year, Matthew Golden, not getting a ton of touches, not used a lot. Come out of the buy, he had the best game of his career last week. And we were discussing, you know, is it the Fleur that he's. isn't scheming for him, or is it love that doesn't trust him? Yeah. And I wonder how you would answer that. Like, Palmer,

there's an example. Like, is it that the O.C. is like, I don't, and I can't find routes for this guy, or can't find plays, or is it Allen that's saying, I don't trust the guy. One of the other. Yeah, it's one of the, I would lean ladder that the quarterback gets in there and goes, I don't see it, the way you see it. Totally. What gets

a bit weird, and I saw this first hand with Jimmy Graham, is to me, I point towards OC, because if you look We had a Sean Payton offense, which is what Jimmy played in with Drew Brees. It was very, very clear-cut roles where, okay, they had, remember Marcus Colston? He was their down-the-field guy. They had Lance Moore to be their shifty guy underneath, and Jimmy pretty much roamed everywhere else.

And the offense was very, we're going to motion this guy to get this matchup. And how you run this offense is we get a matchup we like, and it's on you to win. Meaning you, Jimmy, Marcus Colston, Lance Moore, whomever that person is in that scheme, they go win. where in Seattle, we never did anything like that. Or I shouldn't say never, but very, very rarely. It was very, okay, here's our offense, here's our play call. Russ read it out. Russ, if they're doing this, you're going to throw to Doug Baldwin.

If they're doing this, you're going to throw to Germain Curse. If this happens, we'll hit the back and the flat, et cetera. So when you have offenses like that, there's really, it kind of becomes that everyone eats mentality, which is what they say in Buffalo. And to me, when you bring a guy like Josh Palmer in, you should be willing to kind of adjust your offense a little bit, or you're going to get a $12 million guy who's now in the Everybody Eats category, which is not really why you pay a guy $12 million.

No, I hear you. And that's where the disconnect can happen. Yeah, again, that's what happened to was Jimmy Graham. And it was very, I saw firsthand, I love Jimmy, he's a good friend of mine, but it just was like, you know, why aren't we using Jimmy more? And it's like, well, we just plugged him into our old offense that wasn't great for Jimmy's skill set. Well, exactly, and that could be a part of the problem too, possibly, you know, that... Well, then why wouldn't you just tell the player, luck, you're not fitting in our system,

we've got to do something with you? What the hell's a sense of putting somebody in there you're not going to use? Well, it now becomes very... We're getting bogged down. You're going to hate that... I know you hate when I go here, but it becomes the front office thing, where the front office guys go, well, we paid him $12 million, you're going to figure it out.

Exactly. And then there's a wild disconnect between the front office and the coaches, and now when you lose two games, and if they happen to not do well, the fingers start getting pointed and it becomes a whole who's going to be fired, the front office guy for doing this or the coach for not getting it done. Well, and again, the third element is the quarterback who is going to ultimately win in the end if he's a powerful guy. Yeah.

Like Josh Allen. And I'm not saying I know that he's doing this on purpose or what have you, but I'll give you an example again from the Packers perspective. Rogers would force it to Adams all the time. And it was clear he just said, I don't trust the other guys. I'm not throwing to you and it didn't matter what LaFleur did it didn't matter what Brian Gutickunce did it didn't matter

what they paid the guys Rogers was like I don't care I'm playing I'm snapping the ball I'm throwing it to this cat Rogers is the ultimate like on that spectrum he is the furthest guy yes like I can confirm that there have been I watched a video the other day

I'm like an NFL film scene where he would be in the huddle get a play call and be like nope not doing it and start drawing like it's recessed. I want you to do this. I want you to do that and guys be like, okay. So what is the GM supposed to do in a situation like that?

Rogers is the one end of that spectrum. And I'm sure there are other extreme examples. Again, I don't know if Allen's that. I don't know. I don't know if Mahomes is that. But if they were, there's nothing their teams are going to do about it. So here's what? Because that's the he's the man. He's the king. I wonder this about Josh sometimes and

there's no way to be able to prove this. So this is just a theory. Not a hill I'm going to die on. But I do wonder if there's some residual from Stefan Diggs. And what I mean by that is when Diggs was there it was like kind of boom or bust and obviously Diggs is a bit of an interesting character. But as

soon as he left, I don't remember this, but Josh started just balling and everyone was like yo, he's freed up. He doesn't have to force the ball to anyone. He can do whatever. He can read it out. He can throw to whomever he wants. There's no pressure and he played. It was kind of an inflection point where all of a sudden he started really

taken off. So there is probably a world where some of the coaches are like, hey, we need to make sure we avoid that with anybody else in this team. Josh plays better when he doesn't have to throw to anybody. So there's no one here where we're going to guarantee 10 targets soon. Could be, again, not a hill and willing to die on it. But I could see that for sure. And listen, there's two losses, and New England's looking pretty good.

They're battling them here. To be more telling, though, I think their four wins are a big or a deal than their two losses. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, they beat the Jets. Well, the Ravens open the night, which the Ravens threw that game away. Correct. The Dolphins, I said the Dolphins, the Jets, and I'm missing one other bummed Saints. So between their four teams, I believe they have three wins, like the collective teams they've beat. Right, layoffs. They have three total wins.

Right. And they haven't really blown anybody out. And that's not always, you know, it's the NFL you don't blow anybody out. But the fact that against the Saints, there were kind of moments. Like, yeah, I remember the, there was a prime time game. game with the dolphins and the bills and we're all like, man, this is going to be a blood bath and the dolphins kind of kept it close.

They're covered. Yeah, we hammered the bills. Yes, and it's just like we all thought that first win against the Ravens was the real ordeal and there's a late fumble by Henry but also the Ravens defense has gone on to prove they're an awful unit. So they're kind of less stock in that.

And then the Jets are the Jets. There's not much of need. So I really think they need a staple win here coming up soon. You mentioned the Dolphins. What do you think happened with Tua? Oh, I'm glad you talk. This is absurd. It's a wild story, man. This is absurd.

When he calls out his teammates and said, some people are showing up late for players-only meetings, some people aren't showing up. And then he comes out the next day and says, or a couple days later, it says, that's on me, that was a mistake. Like, that's, that's

bizarre stuff. It's, it's, I can't. What do you think happen behind the scenes? Do you think his teammates stuffed him in a garbage game or what? Yes. But all of it doesn't even add up. Like what he's saying to me in like football terms is like one plus one equals seven.

Or what I took it as, maybe that didn't even happen. Why the hell did you say it? Players only meetings. Here's one. It's funny. And I'm like, okay, so I've had a few players only meetings. Generally speaking, they're not for football. They are for drama. You know, this guy hates this guy. There's a fight. Someone wants

to knock a coach out. We've got to have a player's only meeting. Get this thing back the rails. So that's the majority of player-only meetings. Tuesdays in the NFL, assuming it's a regular week is the off day, and we would do a players-only meeting at 10 a.m. with Russ as an offense. And Russ would kind of give us, hey, we'd spend an hour in there, just want to get you guys familiar kind of what I'm seeing, because he doesn't get to speak a ton when your OC puts the game plans in, et cetera. So my point with this thing is if you're one in five, okay, the last thing I would point to on

why you're one in five, is guys not being in the players-only meetings? Like, of the things that matter in players-only, if that's what they're even doing, I would say that mattered like 2% in whether we want or not. And I would go to every player's-only meeting, I would be there on time. But if a guy showed in at 10-02 and Russ was handing out papers, like, the game plan's not even in yet. You know, Daryl Bevel hasn't even talked about what our game plan's going to be. This is all just like extra stuff here.

It didn't have a, at least in my opinion, a matter. massive impact on the outcome of games. So then what gets even stranger is the idea of doing these things, players-only meeting, is like the most closed-door thing we can do. Why would you go to the media and rat whomever out? And then also not even have the balls, for lack of a better term, to go out and say who it is. Like the whole thing makes zero sense to me.

And again, I do feel like guys are probably like listened to. You keep saying, and I watched, you know, he said it on his appalled, he's like you know we talk a lot about in here like ignore the noise and like I got to apologize because I'm the one creating the noise yeah which made me think that it just didn't even happen I would agree with you I think he gets up there sometimes and like doesn't know what to say and just starts going into robot mode and it's like I'm just going to say like oh you know we got guys on going to players only meetings and it's like oh shoot well it makes everyone look awful like it obviously it fires the coach immediately now he's gonna he's done anyway

he looks like he wants to be done now you'd think he's right get me out of here let me go back to San Francisco and be the offensive coordinator, like, whatever, wherever he's going to go. But, yeah, I mean, you're always saying, like, money is a big part of the conversation there, too, and Tua's got his guaranteed money. Totally. Tua got paid, and Tua is, he's set for life, and, you know, the ship is sinking, and everyone's jumping off, and Tua's just jabbing and jabbing and jabbing. Here's another one with that game, though, is they go down and score, what, 27 seconds or something?

Yeah, they had a chance to win the game. They should have won the game, and then Herbert is about to be sacked. It's one of the worst tackle efforts ever seen, spins out of it, or wrestles out of it, hits Ladd McConkey on a shallow route, that he then breaks the tackle and goes for 40 yards and gets him into fuel goal range. And it's like Tua, your offense just gave, I think they, was it 29, 29 points? Yeah, 29, 27, I think. Was that it?

So you just gave 27 to the Chargers, like, which is a decent defense. Your offense looked pretty good, and your defense laid an end. including in crunch time. Like, it wasn't like the Jets. I guess it's my point here. This isn't a situation where the Jets are cowerding out at the end of the half. They are so awful.

It's scary how awful they are. It's embarrassing. Yeah. Like, they got, they're on 117 watch, man. Like, they're on the watch, officially on watch. Could you imagine, though? Their own fans are starting to tweet out some stuff that is just like, well, you look at it, you're like, how was there even a fan base?

I'm with you. They're the sabres of the NFL. They haven't been to the playoffs in 13, 14, 15 years, something like that. Could you imagine for me where I think goes? Yeah. Good for them. It's like you're on the Jets. Let's say you're on the Jets.

You're an offensive guy. It's been a struggle. You haven't won a game. Everybody knows you're not going to the playoffs. Justin Fields is not a throwing quarterback. You fly to London, England. You're playing the Broncos, who are a legit operation. And you're giving them all they can handle.

It's a tight game. I think it was 10 to 6th of the half, and it's fourth and one with 30 or 40 seconds left. And you don't go for it. You let the clock run out. Like you get eight more yards, and you're kicking a field goal, and it's 10-9. But no, man, we're too scared that with a running quarterback with Brees Hall, with one of the most talented receivers in Garrett Wilson, we are too scared to go for this. Oh, and what do you have to lose?

you're going to lose anyways. Yeah, you're done. Your season's over anyway. Correct. But that's a defensively minded head coach. That's a big part of it. But he's coming from Detroit where there are ethos is we go for it every time. And the O.C. is the past game guy or was the past game guy in Detroit.

I saw that and was like, if you're an offensive guy in New York at that point, you're just, you want to puke. You want to puke. Well, listen, you guys made puke all over yourselves tonight with this pick. I feel like you're going to get it wrong. I'm picking up on bad mojo between the two of you. Alice Brother and I, we have an incredible connection. You guys are on the clock. Steelers laying five and a half at Cincinnati tonight.

Who do you like? Parts. Layup. We got to go with Pittsburgh. We got to do it five and a half. Listen, D.Ks and Aaron are humming right now. This is not a good defense talking about Cincinnati. And I'll say this, there's been times where I worry about Pittsburgh's defense,

but they do create turnovers. And if there's a man who's going to turn this ball over, his name is Joe Flacco. Oh, and by the way, Joe hasn't even been in this offense for a full 14 days. So he got there, what, last Tuesday, he played on Sunday, and now he's going to play on Thursday. I don't love five and a half, but I do love the idea of Pittsburgh taking care of business and winning by seven. All right. Listen, short week, divisional game, Home dog? Same thing. Short week, divisional game, Home dog.

I'm okay with being on the Bengals tonight. I'm okay with it. I don't love it, but I'm okay with it. This is just one of those gross lines and gross games where you don't really want to be on either side. We need turnovers parts, which I think we'll get. We're going to need two turnovers to cover this. Okay. Yeah, this feels like this is a Joe Flacco master class tonight, man.

God, I hope not. I certainly hope not. I'll see. All right. We'll catch you tonight on the group chat. Can't wait. Enjoy yourself. There is Luke Wilson, or TSN football analyst.

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