Are We Too Quick To Cut Off Family?
00:00 Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass. Shop online and get the same low No Frills prices delivered. Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at no frills.ca. If it's too stressful and she's not coming to your wedding, you could say, hey, I know I'm going to have so much to do in the two weeks before my wedding. I don't think I'm going to be able to make it. And then the friendship will die right there.
00:28 A quick note before we get into the end of the end. episode. Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your position or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham and I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. I wanted to get into to discuss this article that I came across and I like saved it. And especially I think this was relevant because we get a lot of emails about people cutting off their family members. and a couple weeks ago or three, maybe like three weeks ago, we had an email that a lot,
01:04 a lot of response about like, I think we, someone whose brother would say like really mean comments to her and kind of was like publicly humiliating her and how to handle that. I think we had kind of like tried to give her some tips to make it work. But you see like a lot of people in our, in our comments who responded with like, you should just cut him off.
01:25 And if your family enables him, like you should just kind of like cut them off to. was a lot of what I saw in response to that. If your family can't protect you from him, then like you should cut them off to. So I thought this article was really interesting. It's on, it's in the more Wall Street Journal. And it's basically saying it says more American adults are cutting off their parents.
01:44 Experts say it's becoming an epidemic. And basically there's these quotes like in their minds, they see themselves as more enlightened and therefore more justified to cut off for more reasons. And they're saying like in previous generations, people were more likely to kind of ignore abuse. and younger adults now have a broader definition than older people about psychological harm. And they view repeated criticism, strong disagreements and other painful relationship conflicts is abusive.
02:12 A lot of therapists say they were kind of conceptualizing it and they were saying that parents of adult children. So like people in our parents' generation, let's say, have this idea of compulsory kinship, which is basically like family is like the number one thing above all else. and so you kind of just like deal with like a family member that you have issues with. Like you're never, the solution is never to not speak to them. But now that idea is increasingly challenged by this notion of democratized kinship, which is basically the idea of maintaining family ties. It depends on their quality.
02:51 So you only need to keep your family in your life if they are bringing a higher quality. of life to you, I guess. Right. So I wanted to hear your take because I know you're kind of like anti-estrangement generally. Yeah, it's definitely interesting. And I think it has evolved almost a little bit. It's because our quality of life has improved in some ways overall. Like even we talked a little bit on the calm the fuck down episode about going generations back.
03:27 it was like a lot of people were living in more like poverty type situations or immigration situations and parents were just like scraping by and their parents were just barely getting food on the table and barely getting the rent paid and so and also your immigrants you also like need your family yes i think kind of because you don't know anyone in this old fucking country right You don't know anyone. You're feeling kind of like maybe, you know, like you're the only person that speaks my language. You're the only person that looks like me. Maybe they're, you know, we were talking about being a family that came from Holocaust survivors.
04:12 So you're sort of like, I don't even know who can trust. People don't even like Jewish people. I want to be able to stay near people that feel safe to me or even just like, we need to share this house. like we have to live in this. We're all contributing to the bills here. So I think before the way that our parents grew up, family was kind of like combining resources. So like you sort of need each other.
04:39 So you don't even have kind of what we have now, which is like the luxury of cutting off your family member. When before it was like you might have really wanted to, but you didn't even have the luxury to because one, you needed childcare because you couldn't pay for. an Annie or you couldn't afford daycare or like you couldn't cut off your parent because they were watching your child while you worked or whatever. I think it was a different generation then. And maybe also maybe more like the ease of of maintaining friendships. Like there's so many
05:15 apps and ways and you have a phone and the way like before like could kind of like anyone who didn't live in your direct vicinity, it's kind of hard to get in touch with. Yeah. If you could just walk over, it was right even phone calls. It was like a different. Yeah. Now I can have people all over the world that like, like even for you and me, like you moved away, but like I can, uh, I can still kind of like text you whenever I can get in touch with you in like a million different ways. I could face time with you. You could see my kids. Like if you were a friend who moved away, we could have the same relationship, you might not need as much of your, like, who's directly around you, which is probably most likely to be your family. I think our parents grew up in this generation of
06:03 like, you have no choice. Like, this is your family. We need each other. And so I think because of that, people probably got away with a lot of crappy behavior. And they learned that from their parents. They tolerated a lot of crappy behavior from their parents because they were like, what are you going to do about it? Where are you going? You've got no place to go. It's interesting this idea of like the democratized kintraib, which is like kind of the idea, which sounds pretty simple and pretty obvious when you think about it, but like feels really weird. The idea of like, oh, I'm only going to be in contact and have a relationship with family members whose personality I like. Right. Like that seems like it sounds like a crazy idea.
06:48 But like is it that crazy? And maybe we are evolving in that direction because we don't need our family as much as depending on our socioeconomic status and all that. But as we're moving towards, you know, having more means where we can hire child care and we can, like you're saying, stay more connected to friends for emotional support, maybe we are evolving in that way where it's like if you don't. need your parents for emotional support and you don't need them for physical support. You're not sharing the cost of a house.
07:28 Maybe it is evolving in the way of like, if you don't make me feel good and you don't support me financially and you're not bringing anything joyful or loving to my life and I have other support systems, then I guess it would naturally evolve in the way of like, why are we still doing this? How do you feel about that though? Like, I don't know. it does feel, you know, maybe it's like, like, you know, I think that idea of someone, like, if you told that to someone's parents, if you told it to our parents, I think they would be like, that's insane.
08:00 Well, I guess that's the idea of like evolution, right? It takes like a couple generations probably to kick in and maybe we're like the cusp. Right. Generation. That's kind of like, okay, this generation feels a little funny about it. Sadly, I mean, I'm like scared because maybe our kids will, but not really. is then just like treat them nicely and they'll stick around. Yeah. I mean, by that logic, would that change your advice to like the woman whose brother is humiliating her at her wedding? Or what else did we have? We had another.
08:32 Oh, like someone in our, in our email from last week whose sister just kind of like cut her off. Like, because she didn't like that she was taking her mom's side. I also don't think then there comes the idea of like owning your own triggers. Like, because you could walk around and be triggered left and right. And then if you cut off your entire family because somebody says something that you don't like, I mean, I do think there is a point where you're kind of like, now I'm just walking around. Like, I'm just every time someone triggers me, I'm like, I'm never speaking to you again. Right.
09:07 So now you can go so far to the other side that instead of being able to be like, okay, this is my sensitivity. The brother did sound like a big asshole. honestly. And I think we did spend a good amount of time on that email trying to figure out kind of like what was going on with him and why he was acting that way and how to kind of be able to just be like, I can take a break from this relationship or I can leave the room or I can walk out. But I think what was entangled in there is like if you don't like the brother, now you have to cut off your entire family. Right. Which is more similar to the brother from last last, last week. Right. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Which is like, I don't like my mom and you're not
09:55 protect. Maybe the sister thought you're not protecting me against the mom. Right. Or taking my side against the mom. So I'm going to cut you off. Right. So now I think it gets a little bit sticky where it's like you're playing this loyalty thing where like if you don't have my back against this person, now you're like entangling the entire family in your relationship with this person where if she wanted to cut her brother out and say kind of at some point, like, he's really mean to me. He doesn't make me feel good. Like, you know, I'm not going to be there if he's there. But she only sees him also twice a year, if I remember correctly. So it's not, doesn't really have to be on those twice a years that she sees him. If she wanted to say, hey, he really doesn't make me feel good.
10:41 I'm not coming on those twice a year. I would respect that if that's what she wanted to do. But I also do think it's empowering to kind of like I think this works more for someone who's like they're seeing you all the time and they're abusive to you all the time and you're kind of like I'm not going to be around that. If she did want to say she'd you know she does want to be around it and on those two occasions a year where he's going to be there. She's not going to be there. She invites some people. She works around it. I would respect that. But I think there it does entangle this issue of like can I handle my own And like I think sometimes what happens when it comes to boundaries with family members is you get in this place where you're like, you're triggering me, you're out. You're triggering me. You're out. So we need to still have a balance being able to handle our own triggers. I think the question is around this like, you know, like being estranged from your family or cutting someone out or something like that. Is it like, does this person do one thing that triggers me that I don't like? But overall, I enjoy. their company and I do get a lot from our work.
11:50 Like, let's take the woman from them last week whose mother kept making the comments about her weight and pregnancy. So like, sure, you could look at that and say, cut your mom out. She's like, I don't think that's what the listener really wants to do. But it's like, you know, could, I think if she took a step back and she looked at her entire relationship with her mom and thought, okay. okay, do I feel bad about myself every time I speak to this person? Do I, you know, do I get any enjoyment from this person?
12:26 Do I enjoy any of my interactions with this person? And if the answer is like, yes, but they do this one thing, then I think it's more about how do I manage the trigger? If it's like every interaction I have, I feel badly about myself. I don't, I feel badly about the interaction. I feel emotionally or verbally abused or whatever it is. I think those are different things. Yeah, I agree.
12:53 With the brother, maybe every interaction she has is him being, she doesn't like his personality. He's being mean to her. He's saying these comments. Maybe for him, okay, estrangement is she doesn't have to be close with him just because he's her brother. I would agree with that. I think it depends on are they fueling you in any way in a relationship?
13:10 If there's nothing there and all you're getting, is this negative, abusive, picking, you know, then yeah, I do think there are moments where it does feel like it's a point. Usually what I find in my practice is most of the time on those occasions, it's either substance abuse or mental illness. Most of the time when people are immovable, abusive, and unwilling to change or like it's chronic and it's across the board and they're not giving anything back. Most of the time, it's one of those two things, which are really tough to deal with.
13:50 I find most of the time in the in-between space, there's usually a little bit of wiggle room for, you know, like they are, I do have aspects of this relationship that feel worth saving. And that's what ends up mostly happening is I don't want to cut this person off. Like not only do I like just feel guilty about cutting this person off, but I actually want to maintain. certain aspects of this relationship, which is what makes it hard.
14:18 And so then sometimes people come to me and they're like, I want to save some aspects of this. I just want to be able to accept that this is a part of this person. This is how they are. And I just want to not take it so to heart. Right. To manage the triggering things about them. Yeah. Because I value other aspects.
14:43 But yes, if you, like the brother is a good example, I think, of like it didn't sound like she was getting almost anything out of that relationship other than his nasty comments. But if she were to cut him off and cut off the entire family because then she would be losing a lot more than just, you know, his nasty comments every Thanksgiving or whatever it was. Yeah. And it's probably very difficult if it's your. own child whose personality you don't like, I would imagine. Like I can understand why her, why it's easier for her to say, I'm not, if he's going, I'm not there. I'm not going than her parents. Yes. We should almost never see unless it's like a really deep substance abuse situation. Like it has to be pretty bad most of the time for people to cut off their own child.
15:40 There's just something in there that won't allow that. But like cutting off your parent, you definitely see that. But I think we were trying to really understand like what was going on for him and why he was acting that way. And, you know, some of the triggers that she had. But yeah, people can just the sibling dynamic around jealousy and meanness. And, um, but yeah, that's all he's coming at you with. And you only see him twice a year. But it's sad.
16:08 It's nostalgic. It is hard to cut off. family. So this is an interesting topic and it does bump up against the potential other extreme of like, I don't like what you're saying. You're out. It is really good practice to be able to be like, okay, I didn't love that. I can accept it, especially if you're in therapy and you're like, okay, that's actually my own trigger. Like this person keeps tapping into. It's really nice. when you can get to that point where you're like, oh, okay, I got that little pang of like somebody just said something. And then within a minute or two, you can kind of just watch that,
16:53 move through, let it go and move on with your day. Whereas before you're in therapy, it's like four hours of your day is eaten up by that same triggering feeling. It's very liberating to learn how to do that yourself instead of spending four hours or four days figuring out what do I need to do with this person who triggered me? Do I need to cut them off? Do I need to yell at them? Do I need to tell them? You're just like, okay, I know that this is my own trigger. I'm going to let it move through me. I know where this came from. I know where it started. I know what's happening. This is my own issue. I'm going to let it move through. And now I've got my four hours of my day back.
17:42 And I don't have to ruminate about how to get that person not to say that thing. That's why I don't always go that route because it's very peaceful once you can get to the point where you can handle it. Because now you're just controlling yourself and you're not attempting to try to control another person, which is really hard to do. All right. I think that's great advice. Yeah. Well, let's get into our emails. Yeah, I'm sure we'll have a lot more people complaining about their families.
18:13 They can tap into this article. Again, it's on the Wall Street Journal if you guys want to take a look at it. Before we get in, as always, if you want to email us, you can email us at oversharing at bedges.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. As always, you can subscribe to the show. You get all the episodes ad-free and a day early. And you get two bonus episodes a month. and we do some fun things on there.
18:38 We speak to listeners. We do update emails. We do feedback emails the whole nine. We get a little more personal, whole nine yards. Or if you want to take it to another level, you can join one of Dr. Naomi's therapy groups. Great way to get access to Dr. Naomi. Yeah, for sure. And I always tell everyone in my groups, you know, I love hearing from my patients.
18:58 I really enjoy getting emails from all of you guys. So once you're in, you're in, you're mine. I love to hear from you guys in group every week and just to hear from everybody in between. I really do think about everybody in my groups in between sessions. I wonder how you guys are doing. So if you're interested in joining us, come find us at Naomi Bernstein.com. There are openings in groups. And every now and then I do get individual therapy openings or couples therapy openings.
19:33 So if there are no spots right now, you can join the wait list. And I will let you know when something opens up, Naomi Bernstein.com. Hold music. Not what you want to hear when a pipe dispersed in your basement is flooding. That's why intact insurance answers 2 million claim calls per year within 20 seconds. So instead of hearing this lovely track, you'll hear this in seconds. Hello, intact insurance. So your decaf oat milk extra but not piping hot, four pumps of caramel,
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20:20 Mmm, lovely. Feel the fun. Play Ojo. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concerned about your gambling or that if someone close to you. Call 1866-531-2-600 to visit connectsontera.ca. I will read our first overshare. Dr. Naomi and Juredana, I'm writing him with an overshare just to get off my chest or to hear your opinion on my situation. I've been married for 13 years, have two kids 10 and 9.
20:42 If you looked at my life from a bird's eye view, I have it all. I love my house. My kids are healthy. Attend an amazing school that we are able to pay for and I don't want for anything material-wise. However, three years ago, my husband was diagnosed with a progressive degenerative disease and it has turned our world upside down since. He is now in a wheelchair and has no function of any part of the left side of his body. this has completely changed our family dynamic, our marriage, and the way we live our lives,
21:08 and has me constantly worried about the future as he is our primary breadwinner, and working is getting increasingly more difficult for him. The emotional toll that his demise has had on our family is far reaching. Our kids have seen him in some really scary situations and have extreme anxiety about his health. They are in therapy, luckily, but still always on my mind. It has severely limited our social interactions with friends and family as he is extremely anxious about going out in public, the accessibility of getting to restaurants and school events and even to other people's houses as they aren't equipped to accommodate him. I feel so incredibly lonely all the time. I'm either the one doing all the things with the kids, bike, rides, sports, practices, games, and taking care of my
21:49 husband's every need, tying his pants, getting his pills, cleaning up his urine and clothes if he can't reach the bathroom in time, or I'm doing literally any job that requires any movement to run a household. I'm so physically exhausted at all points in time that I joke that I'm. I can't ever sit down because if I do, I will instantly fall asleep. I should also mention that I own my own company and have all of that to manage as well. I feel like a single parent, but with an extra adult to care for as well. Now to the truly horrific and selfish part. We haven't had sex in years because he is physically unable.
22:22 I am an extremely physical person. I love to touch and be touched. Foot rubs, hugs, sex. I can't imagine living the rest of my life, caretaking my husband and not having sex again. I can't help but think, now is the time if I ever want to find another partner. I'm only going downhill and will be older and less attractive from here. I feel incredibly guilty for having these thoughts. I even feel more guilty that I'm having an affair with a man who was 21 years older than I am.
22:47 I don't know what else to do. Early on, my husband voice said he would never be okay with an open marriage or knowing that I was involved with someone else, even though he is incapable. As the affair has progressed, I think feelings have deepened on both sides and it has evolved to more than just physical. I know it's wrong, but it's literally the only thing I do each week that is for me and not caring for someone else. How do I proceed from here? I've been grieving the life I thought I would have travel, companionship, even just a partner while struggling to keep it all together. Am I a terrible person? Do I need to end the affair, even though I might never have sex again in my life if I do? Thanks, a too young, lonely caretaker betch.
23:25 Oh, wow. This is a doozy. really hard situation for like everyone involved and I can only imagine she doesn't really talk about this much but I can only imagine how hard it must be for her husband
23:41 obviously it's so hard for her to like have to take care of him and do all these things but to be the one being taken care of knowing you're never going to be able to do all these things either like but it's like a definite for you and having to rely on
23:57 someone to like like take care of you and just not being able to be out or do any of these things must be like really, really. Yeah. Horrible. Hard and like hard not to get depressed for both of them, but for him to know that like he's so dependent on her. I mean, my first question is like I'm wondering if they are talking about their experiences,
24:24 you know, like couples therapy. I assume not. But like, I can't imagine going through this without being able to be really, really open and honest about the struggles of what this is like. Like, I think the only way to do this is to be really open about how hard it is on both ends and just talk about like, whatever, all that comes with it. everything she's talking about being lonely, you know, even if she's not ready to disclose her affair to disclose everything around the affair, which that might ultimately. And maybe that's why she's scared to go to couples therapy because she doesn't want to tell him about this and doesn't want to touch that.
25:18 But now they, she's already done it. And now they have all these like issues and. it's probably like she's like avoiding even talking about anything around it because she doesn't want it to go there. Which I get. I mean, look, I can't imagine being in this position. So almost like any advice that we give like until you've walked a mile in someone's shoes, like taking care of two kids by yourself running a business and then taking care of your
25:47 husband who you envisioned a life with of travel and fun and pay. co-parenting and, you know, that's why it's so crazy, like, you know, to think when you're dating and you're like, oh, does, I don't know, I like to ski. He doesn't really like to ski. I'm not sure if we're compatible, you know, or like the things that people think about when they're getting together, you know, or like, I really wanted a guy who was over six feet. Right. That's why you should always ask someone on a third date if they would be okay with an open marriage if they had a debilitating illness that left them wheelchair bound. Right. Like just like the crazy number of things that could turn out in your life that you have no control over. Right. Like. And just because he said this thing in the beginning about like, you know, the not wanting anything to be open or or not or being very like. Like I think that. that doesn't mean that you have to take that as exactly what that like that could that could that could change just in the way you probably were like of course i'll take care of you
27:01 and then like again that doesn't mean she has to not take care i mean i think there's like a few solutions there's a few different issues here that are pretty big one is the caretaking and the burden that has fallen on you and she says that materially like they they are pretty well off she talks about that in the first paragraph that they're doing well financially, like to me, getting someone in there to help would be the number one thing that I would, that I would do. It just seems like the situation, it's weird that the situation hasn't been addressed in that way to me. Yeah, I mean, although I guess part of it might just be like the stuff that they need help with. If he needs help, like tying his pants or like, you know, I don't know, it just might be a little intimate and maybe, yeah. That's what like people who have illnesses do, though.
27:52 they have a caretaker? If you're in a hospital, there's someone changing your catheter. And probably because it's a degenerative disease, like the needs are kind of always changing. So that's why I, yes, getting worse. And so that's why I think that the number one thing is, and I know she's scared because she has this affair, so she probably doesn't want to start talking, but I ultimately think that the affair is not going to come out, which I think maybe it needs to come out, or if not come out, she needs to start talking about how lonely she feels. She needs to start talking about how she still has like ideas for what she wants out of her life and maybe how she needs, wants someone else to come in and help as the disease is progressing.
28:42 And she wants someone, you know, to be able to be an aid that maybe he needs an aid. at this point or, you know, whatever it is that she needs help with, she needs to be able to express her needs. Like I think sometimes what happens when there's a patient in the relationship like this, one person has a major illness or an accident or something is like that person, their whole life changes. And so in the beginning, it's like, what do you need? Oh, my God, you're sick.
29:16 I need to take care of you. you are the, they get all the care because they are sick. And so a lot of the energy, the caretaking energy, goes towards the sick person, understandably. Right. But then the partner ends up just doing all this caretaking and they don't get a place to really express their needs and their needs get overlooked. And it's all about what you started off saying.
29:43 Like he's sick and he's, you know, can't work and he can't use the entire. tire less than he can no longer take bike rides and he the kids are worried about him and she i think needs a place to be able to share with him this is how this is affecting me if she hasn't done that already whether it's couples therapy or just like some bunch of sit downs where she's like i need to share with you how i'm feeling about my life and our life and the rest of my life and fears that I'm having and all of it. It needs to come out, even if it's not, even if she wants to stop at the affair. I get that. I can see why that would be really hurtful towards him. And maybe she's not ready to share that. But I think she needs to share everything else. Like, I'm scared about my
30:36 future. I don't want to live like this forever. I don't know what to do. I want to be touched. I want maybe they can work out ways where they can do some stuff, you know, if he has some use of the side of his body or how she can still feel close. I don't, they just needs to be what I feel like is just more communication where her experience has a voice in the relationship. And I think there's an emotional void in the relationship here because it sounds like, again, she's, she has this physical affair that is turning emotional and she doesn't talk much about his experience, which to me, she talks about like his physical experience,
31:17 but she doesn't really talk about his emotional experience. And so to me that's like a disconnection. Right. There's a disconnection between them that is more than just physical. That is like things are not being said and they don't really understanding each other. So I think like to bring it to this therapy session and to say like whatever we're to say like the arrangement that we have now just is not working for me. We need to like discuss solutions. Look, I don't know what's going to work for you.
31:46 You know, she, her solution seems to be cutting off the affair. That's one thing she's open. She doesn't talk about disclosing as she talks about cutting it off. If that's something you're open to, maybe you do need to say, hey, I want to be able to take a week every quarter and like travel with my girlfriends. That's something that I need to do. And we need to get like someone in here to help take care of you. And I want to get a massage every week because I need to feel touched or we need to be able
32:13 to find a way that you can touch me in these sexual ways that's not intercourse. or I don't know, whatever you need to do to piece it together to feel like it can work, but it's going to have to take heavy duty communication, which it doesn't sound like you've done. In this kind of situation, for sure. Which is so hard because you have to be able to say to him, which is the hardest thing to say, the worst thing that ever happened to you is making me also really dissatisfied in my life.
32:49 life. His gut reaction was no. Right. But like I think maybe he doesn't understand exactly what you're going through. Maybe there would be an arrangement where he would be okay with it. If it would make whatever life you guys are having now feel more like sustainable. You know, if it would help you to be the best version of yourself for him and your family. So I think you could, I think you could slowly revisit that too, even if you, I don't necessarily think you should bring it up immediately. Maybe she won't need it as much. If she is, if they are like connected more or she's emotionally more open with him, maybe she won't need it. I don't know.
33:29 Maybe she still will, but I think she will need it less if she, like she says, the only thing for her, like her relationship can still also feel like it is for her. Like right now her relationship probably just feels like it's a total drain. So like I think she needs to reclaim that her. partner is also there to support her. Right now it feels like it's feeling like a one way relationship where she's only there to support him. So I think there's a chance that she might not need it as much if she can find support in her partner as well and make her needs known in the relationship. Obviously, their sex isn't going to be the way that it was before and it might not,
34:16 might be barely anything. But if she can feel supported, connected emotionally, she might not need this affair as much as she's needing it right now. Who knows? But this is a tough one. Thanks for writing in though. Thank you for writing in. This is a really hard one. Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass. Shop online and get the same low, no frills prices delivered. Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at no-frills.ca. Hold music. Not what you want to hear when a pipe dispersed in your basement is flooding. That's why intact insurance answers two million claim calls per year within 20 seconds. So instead of hearing this lovely track, you'll hear this in seconds. Hello,
35:07 intact insurance. All right, let's do a betchaicist. Do you want this one? Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I'd love to run a situation by you to see if I'm being a Bridezilla or if I'm rightfully triggered. My fiancé and I got engaged in June 2025 and are getting married in April 2027. We started looking at venues soon after getting engaged. We immediately told all of our friends and we've sent out save the dates. A friend of mine got engaged a couple of months after us. She's in my immediate friend group where I live, so we'll have a ton of overlapping guests. She knew my wedding date before she even got engaged.
35:45 Fast forward to a couple of months ago, nearly a year later. she casually tells me her and her fiance picked a venue and are getting married two weeks before me. You could tell she knew I'd be annoyed by the date because she immediately explained her reasoning. She said they want a honeymoon in Japan to see the cherry blossoms and April is the best time to do that. However, they're planning to go to Japan for two weeks so they'll be there looking at cherry blossoms on my wedding day. I was already annoyed at the date because knowing myself, I know I'll be stressed traveling to her wedding while also trying to finalize everything for my wedding. And because we have so many overlapping friends, I'm worried they won't want to travel twice within a two-week period to attend
36:28 both weddings. But I felt so triggered when I also realized she picked this date knowing full well. It meant she wouldn't be able to come to my wedding because she'll be on her honeymoon. Am I being a crazy bride or is it reasonable to expect a friend not to schedule her wedding and honeymoon to conflict with yours when she knew your date in advance? forward to hearing your thoughts. It's a good one. Okay. I think the wedding date two weeks before yours,
36:54 you've got to let that one go. You can't have the whole month. There's limited days in the year. It probably worked for her and the fiancé. And I think like you get the weekend. Unless she said my wedding, your wedding's Saturday, my wedding's Friday,
37:07 which would be annoying. I think two weeks before, you can't bring that one up if you want to have any feeling of like people thinking you're rational. The honeymoon on your wedding, so she's missing your wedding. That one I do think would feel offensive to me if I were her.
37:27 I can understand why she would feel upset that she was planning her honeymoon to miss the wedding. If I considered this a level A friend, this might make them more of a level B or C friend. I think it just kind of shows you the importance that they're paying to your big day. I would say, okay, maybe we're not as close as I thought we were. Because if we were really close, I think you would, it's not like she planned the honeymoon and then she told her the date. Like she's purposely planning the wedding, the honeymoon on the wedding date.
37:58 Yeah, that's kind of the sad takeaway of this is that she doesn't care to be at your wedding as much as you thought she would, which sucks and is offensive. but it sounds like she had this vision for her wedding and her honeymoon and she's like a Mack truck. Like nothing was getting in the way of this. I don't know exactly about that much about the blooming of the cherry blossoms in Japan. I don't know if it's like a three day window. They last one to two weeks. If I had a friend that I wasn't that close with at all and my dream was to see.
38:42 the Japanese cherry blossoms. Would I miss the wedding? Because otherwise I have to wait till next year. And this is like your dream honeymoon. And your honeymoon is kind of your one chance of your life to be like, I get to pick one thing on this earth that I want to do. And it kind of has to be that week. I think if I explained it like that,
39:06 if I heard it explained like that, I might kind of understand. I would still be like, okay, well, again, maybe we're not quite as close as I thought we were. But like, it's less offensive. I would have to feel like you really were upset that you were missing the wedding. I just think it matters how she explains it. I think if she's kind of like when I found out when your date was,
39:30 then I started looking into mine and I realized, oh my gosh, it's your date. And that's the date that like right at your wedding date is the exact date that the cherry blossoms are blooming in Japan. And it's always been my dream. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I was so torn. I feel really terrible. Like, if it was that whole thing, I would probably understand. She doesn't say anywhere in this email that this is like her best friend or her bridesmaid or her maid of honor. This is just sounds like it's a regular wedding guest. She doesn't even say she's in the wedding party. Would you do it? If it was a regular, a regular old friend, not your, not your bridesmaid.
40:15 Yeah. If this was a regular friend that wasn't in my wedding party and this was like a dream I've had for my whole life and this is the only week that it's happening the whole year. Yeah, I probably do it. I'd go to, yeah. It would be sending a message to the friend that like that is where we stand as friends. We are not that close. We're, maybe we're, you know, we're very friendly and we're friends.
40:39 But like also not putting someone in your way. wedding party is also saying if she's doing that type of thing some people don't but yeah i mean she doesn't say very very good friend very very dear close friend she just says friend who's in my friend group now that you googled it and it's only it says one to two weeks and you know how that goes like you know i'm like i'm into stargazing and i'm like looking at the moon and how what the phase of the moon is and then you're like trying to figure out the weather. Like, if you're planning a trip around something that, like, has to do with nature, you got to, you really want to play your cards, right?
41:18 Yeah, I mean, I better see on inside, I better receive 10 carousel reel of that, 10 carousel pictures of those cherry blossoms. If I don't see any pictures of those cherry blossoms, then we have an issue. That would be, that would be a lovely thing if she would bring her back a little souvenir. Oh, yeah, that's so sweet. I would also ask right after the trip, I'd be like, how is your trip? Send me pictures of the cherry blossoms. I would need to do some back-checking. Yes. Yeah, I think I would let it go. I'm going to let it go a little bit because it does seem very specific, especially if it's fact-checked. And here's the other thing, knowing that she's going on the honeymoon instead of your wedding. She's saying it's so stressful that she's planned this wedding two weeks before mine. If it's too stressful,
42:06 and she's not coming to your wedding. You could say, hey, I have so much to, I know I'm going to have so much to do the two weeks before my wedding. I don't think I'm going to be able to make it. And then the friendship will die right there. Yeah. I mean, it's a little petty,
42:22 but like also kind of like, if she's basically saying like I can hear more about the convenience and fulfilling my dream of this wedding than yours. And I think that does give you permission because she did say it would be stressful to go to the wedding. I think it does give her permission to say, I am too overwhelmed to go to this wedding. I agree. Fair. You're prioritizing you. She's prioritizing her. And that's where your relationship stands. So I think she's, if this is a dream of her life and you're not her maid of honor, I'd probably go.
42:52 Yeah. Let it slide. But I also might skip her wedding. So let us know if you decide to be a little petty. I want to hear. Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass. Shop online and get the same low, no frills prices delivered. Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at no frills.ca. Let's do some intentions. I will read it. Hi, Geriana and Dr. Naomi, avid Canadian listener here and huge fan of all things, batches. I'm looking for an intention to ease my mind when it starts to spiral about the future
43:29 rather than enjoying the present moment in relation to my aging parents. Over the last few years, I've lost all of my grandparents and have had to navigate grief. I constantly picture myself in my parents' shoes by losing a parent. I can't contain my emotions when thinking about this. My parents turned 60 this year and instead of being excited about the future like having kids in the next few years, all I can seem to think about is I need to have kids soon so my parents can spend as much time with them before the inevitable happens. I find myself worrying about the future when I don't have my parents in my life rather than living in the moment and enjoying life together as we have it now. The logical side of me knows this
44:07 is part of life, but the emotional side goes into hysterics when I think about it. I feel like even a few years ago when I would think about the future, like getting married, I was so excited about these next chapters and milestones, but now I have a crippling anxiety when it comes to losing loved ones. I would love an intention to help ease my anxiety when I start to spiral. Thank you, a betch who can't calm the fuck down. You'd be surprised at how many people have this big fear about losing their parents. I feel like when I was little, I used to feel that anxiety.
44:36 Mm-hmm. When you almost like first learn about death, one day you'll be gone. It's like scary. I don't know. For some reason that it would, it was a scarier thought when I was young than now. Yeah, well, like I guess it's all about attachment, you know, like you have a different attachment now. Like maybe now you have more fears about like your daughters or your husband because they're like your major attachment people. But yeah, this is really hard.
45:07 I mean, this happens to a lot of people. I think this is a big, big, big for like only children tend to have like really big fears around their parents' death. I mean, lots of people have it. But for only children, it's bigger because it's like. That's your only family, really, yeah. Especially if you don't have like your own nuclear family, which she doesn't yet, she said. Yes. Yeah.
45:29 So that is hard. I think this will feel better once you have, you know, if. if you do have like more of a firm attachment person or like a, you know, I think it feels a little better if you have a good community that you can kind of get roots into. That always makes some of these things feel better. But sometimes what this, I mean, this is just life, right? This is like the thing of life. But sometimes just letting this energy that we all have, this fear of death, just letting it have its voice. And she said she's lost her grandparents. So she's seen her parents grieving, which is hard and to become very real for her and that.
46:15 But sometimes we kind of choke this down a little bit. So it doesn't have its full expression. Well, I'm sure it feels uncomfortable to be like crying at your parents' hypothetical one day death. I think that's almost like, that's probably why she's not running to fully feel it because she's like, there's probably a part of her that. And she says this, the logical part of her feels like seemingly a little ridiculous. Yeah, I know.
46:46 And I, it's true. It's like, why am I hysterical crying about this thing that hasn't happened? But it's almost like every other thing that we get ourselves worked up and cry over. like mostly won't happen except this one that will happen which will yeah definitely so like we cry like I'm afraid I'm going to lose my job or we cry like I'll never meet someone or yes yes have kids or whatever it is yeah yeah like all the things that we cry about because we're afraid of something that we want or don't want or whatever like this is the one that's like actually going to happen, but we choke it down because it feels like, I don't want to go there.
47:34 I don't want to bring that up. And I'm even like, I don't know what your relationship is like with your parents, but to even talk about that, I think can be cathartic to kind of say that. Because really what this is, it's like you love them so much. But sometimes that love doesn't know how to express, so it expresses as fear. Because like fear, we feel like we can almost do something with fear. But love sometimes feels like we don't know exactly what to do with that. So like, I don't know what your relationship is with your parents,
48:10 but maybe you can talk to them about it. Like I saw how hard it was for you guys when you lost grandma and grandpa. And I just love you so much. And I have these fears and even just having like a good, hard cry together with your parents. And maybe it would make them cry. and that's okay if you make them cry. Just show them that you love them and have a big cry. And maybe they talk about how they dealt with their parents dying.
48:38 And that makes you feel like, you know, it will be sad, but you'll be okay. Assuming they're okay. I would assume they're okay. Everybody's, I mean, you're okay enough if you're there. They're talking to you. They're showing up. So yeah, I think sometimes we don't want to talk about death because it's like, you think you're going to upset other people and like it's okay to upset other people it's okay to have
49:04 so cathartic to have like a big cry with your parents of like I'm afraid to die I'm afraid you're going to die like let's just hug it out and cry because what that really means is we just love each other and we love our life together so much like that's what fear of death is it's like I love my life so much that I'm afraid of losing it but we often don't even feel it as that. We just feel it as fear, straight up fear, instead of feeling it for what it really is, which is love, like, and channeling it into that by talking to your parents about it and letting them know how much you love them and allowing that to come out in the form of, like, hugs and tears and all the things. And then maybe after that, it can transform into just regular
49:56 or love, like enjoying a walk together or doing something fun together or just, you know, being mindfully present together. I think mindful presence is going to help a lot because it sounds like she's now anxious about like getting married and having kids and she needs to do it faster so they can like be there. But it's like just enjoy this moment with them. Just be there with them in this moment. Like you don't, you might have annoying kids.
50:22 They might not even want to hang out with them. Who knows? Yeah. It is really hard. And talking about death is so hard, but I do think it can be kind of cathartic to do that with your parents. If they're open to it, I don't know what type of people they are.
50:38 I assume they're emotionally in tune. If she's that emotionally in tune where she's just thinking about her parents dying, is making her dwell up with tears. I would imagine she has parents who are emotionally sensitive as well. Yeah, I hope so. I think it could be a good conversation, make them feel really loved. And again, share their wisdom.
50:54 because they've gone through it. So, like, who better to help you understand what that's like than them? I think when it comes to death, people are always like, I'm afraid to bring it up because I don't want to upset you. And I encourage you not to do that. Like, it's upsetting. It's going to be upsetting whether you bring it up or you don't bring it up. I think it's okay to share those feelings.
51:16 Do you have an intention for her? Yeah. So the intention that I wrote is this fear is love. and I will find it an outlet. I trust I will find my way. So just like your parents found their way, you will find your way. And sometimes this big, heavy fear and grief,
51:41 grief is really love. And fear a lot of times is love. It's clinging to the things that we love. And if we don't express it as love, it just comes out as this clinging, fear. So see if you can find this love and outlet through your parents because they're here now. Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass. Shop online and get the same low, no frills prices delivered. Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month. Learn more
52:17 at nofrills.ca. All right. Let's do some triggers. I'm going to read our first one. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. Oversharing is one of the highlights of my week and I always enjoy. listening while I do deep creative work from home. I love that. Last weekend, my husband and I went to visit our best friends for a concert in their city. We've been friends for almost 10 years now and on two occasions have spent time with their brother and sister-in-law. Once in the city where our friends live now and another time my husband went with our friends and stayed with the brother and sister-in-law for a weekend. Something odd happened during this last visit that I'm curious to get both of your opinions on. The day we arrived, the sister-in-law texted my husband around 11 p.m. to send a personal invite to
52:56 her partner's 40th birthday out of state, which our friends had literally just been telling us about. My husband didn't give her his number, so he didn't even know who sent it or how she could know at that exact moment we were talking about the birthday party. The invite was only extended to my husband and did not include anything about me being invited. This behavior seemed invasive and borderline stalkerish. And while our friends didn't seem to mind her behavior or just used to how she is, my husband and I both found this to be a little creepy. For additional context, our friends and their brother and sister-in-law have known each other since high
53:26 school and all share locations with each other. I've met the sister-in-law only once. She had a very big personality, but was also standoffish around me. And based on what my friend had shared with me, I tried to downplayed our closeness because I know she gets jealous. My friend has told me that if she's hanging out with other people and the sister-in-law knows about it, she'll start texting her in a kind of love-bombie way to
53:45 figure out what she's up to or interrupt what she's doing to get attention. So how triggered should I be that the sister-in-law mysteriously got my husband's number, even though he never gave it to her and only invited my husband, not me, to this out-of-state birthday celebration. Thanks for all you do and looking forward to hearing your thoughts, signed Big Sister-in-law is watching. I am maybe not getting something here, but I kind of feel, it depends what the invite was. If she, like, sent the husband some kind of an Evite type situation. I think she texted him and told him that he could come to her birthday out of state.
54:22 I kind of feel like it, the implication is that if you're married, that the partner is invited. Like, that's what I would assume, unless specifically somehow, like I just would assume that if you're married and you're getting invited to a party, the invite is for the couple.
54:44 I would never assume that someone is inviting just me to a party or you think it would have to say you and Mike are invited to this party. Here's how I imagine it going down, which again is not that nefarious. I imagine they're visiting these friends. They're all talking about they bring up the sister-in-law's birthday. You and your husband says something like, oh, I'm sure that'll be really fun. The sister, the woman happens to be talking to her sister-in-law and says, oh, we're hanging out. She's texting her.
55:16 She says, we're hanging out with so-and-so. we just told them how fun like that how your birthday and she says oh they should come i'll invite him what's his number give me his number i'll give me one of their one of their numbers i'll invite them yes that is what i imagine she texts him and says oh you should call you should totally come to my birthday i think it's a little weird to not say you guys should totally come i don't know how it was phrased she didn't she didn't send us the raw materials yeah i wish we had this screen I prefer to see a text in these scenarios. Maybe she doesn't like the woman.
55:50 That's why she chose to text the guy. It's a little triggering to have your husband invited by a woman to a party, not you, I guess, maybe. I don't think it's creepy. I think they probably told them that you were at least in town, even if it was the night before. Right. And they said, hey, they're coming to town this weekend. And then I assume it was just a coincidence that at that moment, that they sent you the invitation.
56:17 I think what she's implying is creepy is that they were just talking about it when the text came through. I don't know how if with the sharing of the locations, they would know that they were there unless she shares her location with the sister-in-law, which doesn't sound like she does. Yeah, but somehow her including that information
56:35 feels like that's what she's implying somehow. I think this is a case of like, you guys all met a couple times. You and her just like did not vibe. vibe. So now you're just... And she texts your husband about a party doesn't mention you coming and you're like, it gives you extra ammo to think that she's rude or weird or possessive of your friend. And maybe your friend talks a little shit about her too. And that kind of adds on to it too.
57:02 But I don't think she did anything that crazy. I think she was like, oh, I like them. Like they'll, like, I'll invite them to knowing you're probably also not going to come. But like, you know, maybe the next time she sees you, she wants to feel like she invited you to something. I completely agree. I think there was like a little bit of an off vibe. So this is an opportunity to overanalyze the invitation, which I'm sure was meant for both of you, but didn't specifically say that.
57:32 This is like an example of like a filter. I think because you guys didn't hit it off and this friend has, I think, talked a little shit about her about how she tends to get jealous. and possessive, now you have this filter over your interactions with her where you're scanning for nefarious intent. So therefore you're finding it, which is why you're bringing up the sharing location, which I think has absolutely nothing to do with this because you're not sharing your location and you're saying it's creepy that she's texting texting you at 11 p.m. when you guys just happened to be talking about it, where she, unless the friend said,
58:12 hey, they're over here, which is like fine and normal. And then she's like, oh, cool. I'll send them an invite, which is totally fine. And I'm going to name the actual triggering situation, which is going to help you with the score. I think the triggering situation is like my husband and I met another couple. I didn't. I, the guys got along fine, but the woman and I just like didn't really vibe.
58:34 And then when she wanted to send out a courtesy invite to a party that she knows my husband wasn't going to attend instead of texting me, usually would text the woman in the situation. She texted my husband because she doesn't really like me that much. And because you had the vibe, you're kind of like, oh, she's confirming she felt it too that we didn't vibe. Maybe two and a half. Fine, two and a half because like I do think she did not get along well with you.
59:01 Maybe should have gone like woman to woman on the invite. Or like text the both of you. Send the text to the both of you. I think it's fine that she invited you. Hey, hey, you and so and so should come to my party. Yes. Any one of those things would have made this a little bit better, but nothing that like crossed any major lines.
59:22 I'd let this one go. Or you might be part of the vibe issue. Yeah. So if you guys do continue to hang out, you can be either part of the problem or part of the solution, I think, going forward. Like it doesn't sound like you're going to go to this party, but the next time you see her, you can either like double down on like cold vibes or you can try to warm up the room a little bit.
59:47 I would encourage you to like be part of the solution. Otherwise this might turn into a thing, which isn't fun for anybody. And she's like too distant for to make it a real thing. You're not going to see her that often. And it's like nothing here has really happened. Like I do think just to go off on a little tangent, I think this. type of like little mild, bitty thing can blow up if someone doesn't say, hey, I'm just going to, like, warm this up a little bit. Like, be the person that warms it up and fixes it instead of being
01:00:26 the person that's like, why should I be the one that has to warm this up? She this, this, she that. Like, just be the one that like makes a little eye content. Tack smiles. Oh, I heard about your party. Oh, that sounds really fun. Unfortunately, we can't make it. I bet you're going to have the best time. Just warm it up.
01:00:49 Cost you nothing. Yeah, don't make it about, don't make a mole hill. What is it? Mountain out of a mole hill. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. You want to read her last one? Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I have a triggered scenario below that just happened today and need some validation.
01:01:04 My husband and I are expecting our first baby and he's due a week before. Thanksgiving. My in-laws normally host a big Thanksgiving every year, but when we announced the pregnancy back in the spring, they told everyone that they would not be hosting this year because they planned to come stay with us and meet their new grandson. My parents are also coming, and the plan is basically to have a low-key Thanksgiving at our house, assuming I'm not literally in labor or in the hospital. Here's where I got triggered. My husband's brother has a son, Max, with his ex-wife, Lauren. They've been separated. for several years and share custody, but my in-laws are very involved with Max. They live five minutes
01:01:44 away. My husband's brother currently lives with them. And because he has unusual work hours, my in-laws frequently step in to take care of Max. Lauren has made comments before about being frustrated when my in-laws travel because it means she loses some of the breaks she normally gets from their help. Recently, Lauren asked my mother-in-law in front of me if Max could come with my in-laws to our city for Thanksgiving. I immediately said I didn't think it was a good idea. For one thing, my in-laws are coming because we may have a days-old newborn, or I could literally be giving birth,
01:02:17 and I don't think it's fair to make them responsible for another child while they're trying to visit us and help. I also said I wasn't comfortable having a school-aged child staying in our house immediately after bringing home a newborn because of the unnecessary exposure to germs. I thought that would be the end of it. Instead, Lauren kept pushing. She said that she and Max would otherwise be alone for Thanksgiving and that Max would have more fun with his grandparents.
01:02:44 I eventually walked away from the conversation and she continued trying to convince my mother-in-law after I left. Eventually, she accepted that the answer was no. Here's the kicker. Lauren and Max were actually invited to spend Thanksgiving on a trip with her parents, who offered to pay for the entire thing. She declined. So when she said, we'll be alone on Thanksgiving.
01:03:04 it wasn't because they had nowhere else to go. I completely understand that Max loves his grandparents. It might want to come with them. And I don't blame him at all. But I'm triggered that Lauren knew for months that my in-laws were specifically skipping their normal Thanksgiving because our babies do and asked anyway and then continued lobbying my mother-in-law after I, the person whose house everyone would be staying in and who may have just given birth said no.
01:03:29 Is it unreasonable to want this one Thanksgiving when my in-law's second grandson is literally being born to be about them meeting him and helping us rather than once again being responsible for child care. So how triggered should I be? Okay. Well, it sounds like she said no and she's not coming. Right. I guess the idea of her, the idea of her asking, I don't think is a big deal. The idea of her pushing it after she said she wasn't comfortable is kind of annoying. I don't know if I would call it triggering. The reason it's triggering clearly is because there's some sort of like feeling that the grandparent like some fighting over the attention of the grandparents to the hypothetical first kid and this other kid where she feels like they get a lot of help
01:04:16 and she wants the help. It's kind of what I'm getting here. A hundred percent. There's nothing that actually happened here other than this sister-in-law, ex-sister-in-law, like begging basically and pestering to take the kid, which they stood their ground. She didn't even come back to her again and say, are you sure? Do you think? She said no. She stuck to the no. I agree with you.
01:04:48 I think there's something here. I mean, she's literally going to have her husband and two full sets of grandparents. Right. For one baby. For one baby. It's not even enough to do. Yeah. Like I don't even think there's going to be enough to do for six adults and one baby.
01:05:07 That's why I think the child, they think they need to be available to help with my kid versus their kid, I think is like not the route to go because I think there's a lot of people there. The school age child with the germs. That part. Yes. That's what I would go with. If I were giving a excuse, if I were, if I really just wanted it to be about my kid, that would be the one, the excuse I would go with. That's the leg she has to stand on because I do not think you need six adults to care for one newborn baby.
01:05:38 So if it wasn't for that, I would say that there's something else going on here. That this triggered is, I would give it like a one if it wasn't for the germ factor. Because I'm kind of like, okay, like someone could be with this kid. There's five other adults that could be helping with the newborn. I think she's a little bit sensitive because it does sound like the mother is like looking to kind of not get with the kid for Thanksgiving or whatever. Right. For some reason.
01:06:13 Which makes me a little sad. I know. I don't know what is going on there. But like her parents are inviting them. I don't know why she doesn't. Maybe her she has some issues with her parents. She has a guy. She's dating and she wants to do something with him, whatever it is.
01:06:27 That's not her. That doesn't, she doesn't need to. worry about that. But yeah, I think she's, I would be mindful of your sensitivities and how it's affecting potentially rationality around what you're looking for from your in-laws and your parents with this sensitivity that you have about how much help your in-laws are giving. I think she's kind of like, this is my first kid. I want all the attention to be on like me and the first kid and you and you take care of kid all the time. Or they take care of your kid all the time.
01:07:03 Like, it's my turn. Right. Which like, fine. I can understand some part of that. But like, she said no. She allowed it to be no. I give this a two. I'm going to give it a low rating.
01:07:15 If you didn't overhear that conversation, you never would have known it even happened. Beyond the point of you saying no, her saying, sorry, the answer is no. If you wouldn't have heard the rest of it, that would have been a perfectly reasonable boundary. was maintained. I agree.
01:07:33 If this happens again where something actually happens, let us know. But for now, it seems like, it just seems like a little bit of a fear that you have. We'll be back next week.
01:07:45 Thank you guys for tuning in. Yeah. Thank you guys always for these great emails and vulnerability that first overshare was like really vulnerable. I appreciate that. I appreciate it. Tough spot.
01:07:55 Keep the great emails coming. We couldn't do this without you. But for now, that's our time. Great work today. Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass. Shop online and get the same low No Frills prices delivered. Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at nofrills.ca.
01:08:24 Betches.
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