Oversharing - Do I Have to Choose Between Motherhood and My Career?

Episode Date: July 14, 2026

Jordana and Dr. Naomi kick things off with a conversation about the impossible choices many women feel forced to make between career and motherhood, and why the real problem isn't "girlboss vs. tradwife" but the lack of policies that allow parents to build balanced lives. This week's Overshare asks whether planning for a future family means turning down career opportunities today, while a Betchesist grapples with feeling like a fraud after being diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes despite dedicating her career to public health. An Intention helps an emailer survive painfully forced workplace icebreakers without losing her mind. Finally, two Triggered listeners ask whether they're overreacting to workplace favoritism and a chaotic maternity leave process that leaves one eight months pregnant with no approved leave plan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The idea is that nobody's doing it wrong, that the way that the system is set up is made to feel like everybody's doing it wrong. A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. Happy birthday.

I'm so excited to be able to be here having, you know, working and also having a great fun conversation with you on your birthday. I can still call you later. I know you like a call. No, this counts. This counts. This is enough. Are you sure? Because, you know, last year we had the thing where I didn't call you. I texted you because of my thought about birthdays where it's like I like a text and then a catch up on a different day. But your birthday is also on a Monday. So like what else are you doing? We are talking. This is it. It's actually kind of fun. At first, I was like, my birthday's on a Monday.

I'm going to have to work. You know, everyone likes a weekend birthdays. They don't have to work. And then I was like, you know what? I get to do this in the morning, which is great.

And then I have some time off, you know, in the afternoon for a little bit. And then I'm going to have my Monday morning, my Monday evening group. So shout out to my Monday evening groups. If you guys are listening. And I love that.

So I was kind of like, I really like what I do for work. I'm going to get a little time with the family in the afternoon. I get to see you. It's going to be a great day. Do what you love and you never work a day in your life. Exactly. So this is great. I get to say you do not have to call me.

Wow. What a birthday treat for me. What a treat that I don't have to call you later. No. I'm excited to catch up. It's been a minute. One fun fact about my, not to make this about me, But a fun fact about my birthday, which is September 7th, is that my birthday can never be on a working Monday.

So my birthday is September 7th. This year, it is on a Monday also. Oh, it's on Labor Day thing. So if it's, so it must, you cannot have a working Monday and be my birthday. If it's my, if it's Monday, you're off. Yes. Because if it's Monday, it's Labor Day. And so it could be any other day of the week, but it cannot be a working Monday, which is kind of a cool thing.

That is a very, because a Monday is like, yeah, it's the first day back. And this could have been almost like the tail end of a long fourth of July. But no, it was like everyone, they took the Friday, not the Monday. This is like everyone's back into the grind of the week. But it's all good. I'm here. Like you said, I like what I do. I like being with you. I like my Monday evening groups, a little bit of off time in the middle of the day, maybe get a little workout in. So, It's going to be a good day. Yes, I'm excited for you. Also, shout out to your curls. Got a lot of positive feedback on last, I think the last episode that aired last week's episode, people were loving your hair. Oh, you know what? It is so hot and humid here that I don't even bother trying to straighten it.

So no keratin. I've been embracing the curls. Well, I haven't done keratin, but I just usually blow dry my hair straight. But it's, then I go outside and it's just, so I don't even bother. I've been wearing it curly. But thank you. You know, and that's the other thing. Like, thank you to all, you know, I'm 47.

You can use a little feel good. A little flattery. A little flattery. Put yourself out there. So I get to come here and hear kind words about my hair and feel good about myself as I'm getting another year closer to 50. which is crazy, but... Big number.

I'm still doing it. Still working out. Oh, wow. Look at that. Yeah, you look great. Still trying to, you know, stay healthy. The girls, thanks. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. It always feels good to hear it. Nice thing. Of course. And we're starting this episode. We're going to be doing a little workplace-themed episode, nothing like the middle of July to get you guys in a working mode.

We're answering a lot of work-related. questions and that kind of thing. If you like when the episodes have a theme, let us know in the comments. If you prefer to have a little bit more of a mix, also let us know in the comments because we want to make this show what you guys wanted to be.

We love our listeners. And we had so many great emails that we wanted to try this. So let us know what you think. And you know, you wanted to talk about an article that you read, right? So I read an article that was discussing basically the conflict that

a lot of women are having and sort of this back and forth between the working mom versus the stay at home mom or the girl boss versus the trad wife. And what I think ends up a lot of times on social media becoming almost this competition kind of thing of like who's right, who's got it right, who's doing it right, who's doing it wrong. And this film and the article is, is sort of, it's pushing for policy change, right? The idea is that, you know, that nobody's doing it wrong, that the way that the system is set up is made to feel like everybody's doing it wrong. And that we just need policy change.

We need more, basically better maternity leave policies and more making it easier for women to come in and out of the workforce. So that's kind of the concept. And some of the, you know, listener emails is like, how to, it seems impossible, right? There are some fields where it feels like I can't just take a year and a half off and then pop back in. Right. And nothing's changed. Obviously, I like that concept to an extent. And I think it would be great for moms to be able to take 12 to 18 months off when they have a baby. But what I think is needed is a little bit more outside of the box,

which this is just my little group that I'm seeing. So I don't. I don't know if this is for everybody, but I think people like a little bit more of a hybrid model. Like, I think my patients would like, I work from nine to one and then, or I work from one to six or five. Or I work Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Or I work Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. Or some kind of an outside of the box, like I want to be with my kids, but that I also don't want to be with my kids and I want to break from my kids and I want to feel like I'm a person and I get dressed and I go to work and I use my brain. So I don't, what I see in my patients is I get the

stay at home moms that are like, I feel like my brain is not being used the way that it was when I was working and I don't want to do that all day. And I also don't want to work all day. So I kind of wish there was a mom. If we're going to go for policy change, I don't think the my personal opinion is I don't think the policy change should be let's stay home for 18 months because I don't think most people want that. Yeah. I mean, as someone recently, you know, having kids, I totally agree with that. I was, you know, thinking as you say that, like, I don't really want to work all the time and not see my kids. I don't want to be with my kids all the time and not work. And I think what you're describing is exactly sort of like the sweet

spot, which is kind of hard to do. I want to have like a life and a stimulating conversation and like, life outside of my kids, but then I also want dedicated. I think that when I show up to see my kids, I'm a much better version of myself having that other part of my life, as opposed to being with them all day, every day. So I think if there's a policy change, it's more like collective child care help. Like, you know, maybe, I know they have universal pre-K,

but like let's start a little earlier. Like maybe like a universal daycare option or universal. because like I think more things to make it in because I think people were not meant to have children and take care of them on their own. They're meant to have this village, right? I think in like if you go back evolutionarily and like societally, I think that that was a really great model. It's like everyone kind of helps raise your kids. And I think if the government's going to do anything, it shouldn't be like, let me stay home so I can do it alone. It should be like, let's make more date.

Let's subsidize daycares. let's subsidize like, um, child care. I don't want to quit my job and not have a nanny and do it all myself. Like I don't, that's just like not at all my desire. Like she's, she actually, her flight got canceled. So she's not here today. So Mike and I are like figuring it out. We like, oh, wow. His parents. They're coming in and like helping us for the work things we have to do. And like that's great. Like if we didn't have them, I don't know. Like, I just think like the more resources, the more options to to help facilitate like a balanced life for. everyone involved. And like you said, I think you've said this on previous episodes. Like,

I think it's good for kids to be able to be taken care of by multiple people. And also, it's good for them to be around, not that there's anything, if you have a nanny and your kid is something, nothing wrong with that. But I do think it's good for them to be around other kids. And I love the idea of mixed age kids. So I love the idea of, you know, five-year-olds and three-year-olds. and all them mixed together, then they learn, the five-year-olds learn how to help with younger kids, and the younger kids learn this whole, like, village concept. Like, I think that's all great.

If we're going to make some policy changes, like trying to help, you know, with that type of daycare setup. And also, I don't know how this would exactly work, but I think almost creating policy change within the workforce itself, where, like, I remember seeing, a patient a few years ago who was a physician's assistant. And she wanted to go on maternity leave, but she also didn't want, she just didn't want to just be completely off.

Like she wanted to maintain her patients and her practice. And the idea of having like two, two of them share a role, like having two new moms, both share one physician's assistant role. And it was like unheard of, you know, or two, two lawyers, like share one caseload or like kind of having this be like we, you know, you can not have to take on the way that it's set up is like there's one person for one job, maybe having two people share one job. So you're, you can stay home a little bit and you can work a little bit. But that sometimes it's set up like all or nothing. You're either work to the bone like four. 40, 50 hours a week or you're on maternity leave.

And I think that's like where creativity comes in and like individualized options because like not everyone wants the same thing. Not everything, not everyone has the same things working for them. I think the more options you have the better the better it is. And I mean, I started doing this podcast again after six weeks, not because I had to, but because I wanted to. I enjoyed doing it. I was again, I was able to do what a lot of your patients are saying that they want to do,

which is like, this podcast doesn't take 40 hours a week. Like, and I liked having, you know, again, this I'm having an adult conversation with my sister. Yeah. For the show. So it wasn't like, but I think the more options you have, the better it is. And I think the more that we can government subsidize more options for people in their unique scenarios to help them live this balanced life.

Because I totally agree with you. I don't think anyone wants all of what. thing or all of another. And I think that also there's like this like stick, I think there's like a feeling of like maybe among either people who don't have kids or people who do have kids and maybe like our little judgmental of others is like the idea that the more child care you have like the less into your kids you are. If you go if you're working on full time, you're less into your kids or you're less like. And I mean, I've even seen some of that feedback about me of like, you know, she does she even want these kids? She's going back to work. Like, you know what I mean? I think

there's like, I've seen like little things like about that. And I mean, I mean, I've seen like, And I mean, if I believed that for a second, it would be very painful. But I think, like, I know that, you know, living in the real world, like, this is a really hard job to do all day. And it has a lot of amazing moments. But, like, if I had to do it all day, every day by myself with the two of them, I think I would go insane. And I don't think that makes me a bad mom because I don't want to do that. Yes, totally. A hundred percent.

I think everybody wants balance. That's kind of the key to all of it. So yes, I love this concept. We need policy change. We could sit here all day and try to figure out how to do it. I don't think we're the ones that are going to solve that. But I do think, yes, some government resources, not just for maternity leave. I think that's like kind of tunnel vision to just giving more time off.

Maybe for thinking outside of the box and helping moms, ask the moms what they want. You know? And I don't think that all of them, yes, I don't think that all of them just want the same, maybe the first six weeks or, you know, 12 weeks or whatever they want to be home. But after that, I think it's a little bit different on what, you know, moms want. And I think they want that most of them from what I see in my practice want a balance of I want to be with my kids, but then I also want to stay in the loop of work. Right. I think they want a lot more control over their own time. I think that's, really what people want. It's like they want to be able to make their own schedule. Yes. And why not?

With now that everything's virtual and online and you can work from home and maybe you want to work on a Saturday when, you know, because that works for you and, you know, whatever the options are, I think we can be more, think more outside of the box on this and what we can do to help moms just be happier than they're happier. They're not stressed out. They're happier with their kids. They're happier at work. And they're perform better in all areas of life. 100%. We just did it. We solved maternity leave. Okay. All right. Well, let's get into our emails. And we have a lot, again, we have a lot of work related emails. If you like this, let us know if you don't. Also, let us know. You can also, if you want to get more involved with this podcast, you can subscribe. You get two bonus episodes a month. You get all the episodes ad free and a day early.

Or you want to get level deeper. You can join a therapy group that Dr. Naomi loves so much. that she is doing it on her birthday evening. Yes, come find us, Naomi Bernstein.com. I do, I do. I love my people. Once you're in, you're in our little circle. You have access to me. I always tell everybody, email me. I really love to hear from all my group members. I think I still have maybe a couple individual and or couples therapy slots. I love couple's therapy is one of my favorite things. It just, you know, probably brings me right back. home, you know, I have a very unique and I think very effective couples therapy method that a lot of, you know, couples come out and they're like, whoa, that was really, really, really

helpful. So couples therapy, individual group, hit me up Naomi Bernstein.com. And if you want to leave us a voicemail, we love getting a voicemail. You can call us at 646-363-6294. Or you can email us at oversharing at fetches.com. Let's get into our episode. Should I read our first email? Let's do it. Hi, Jodena and Dr. Naomi. I'm writing for advice about growing a career and a family at the same time. I am 31 year old female and I have been at my current company for 10 years. My background is in engineering, but I switched to work on the business side about three years ago after getting my MBA. I've always thought of myself as ambitious and I really value my work. My job is stressful and can be high pressure, but I enjoy it and I feel a sense of purpose.

Lately, I've been approached by a few hiring managers to consider different roles at the next level up. And each time, I have felt more like having an existential crisis than being excited at the opportunity. I also got married last year and my husband and I are thinking about starting a family later this year. I think I'm excited to become a mom too, but I can't help panic thinking about how we will manage it all and how it will affect my career. I know that many women find a way to not skip a beat at work by having their partners do more or getting other help at home, but I think I want to reserve the ability to take a step back professionally when our kids are little. I'm scared that I will say no to new opportunities in the near future

to prioritize family and then people will either stop asking or I'll limit my career in the long term. I feel like I'm going nuts trying to weigh priorities and expectations to the point that I'm not sure what I even want the future to look like. You're both professional moms, I'm excited to hear both of your takes. Thanks for reading a bet you can't have it all. Yeah. So here it is, right? This idea of, you know, I want to be a mom. I want to prioritize my family. And I'm afraid that that's going to pull me out of opportunities at work, which, you know, I don't know exactly in her field if this is a field where she can pop in and pop back out. but I would encourage her to, you know, allow it to unfold, I think, and trust that, you know, she can make the decision to say no when she needs to say no and that what she may have

to end up doing is pushing a little bit harder to get back in. Yeah, I understand that. I agree with you, but I think that she's living in, like, she's trying to prepare for a life that she doesn't even know what it's really going to look like. and how she's going to feel. Like, she's trying to make decisions now for a situation that hasn't happened yet. So if I were her,

I would make the decision based on how you feel right now about all these responsibilities. Because, like, you don't know. I mean, speaking from experience, it could take you a while to have kids. It's not like you could have them exactly when you want them. Like, you could have kids and then decide you actually like work a lot more

than you thought you liked it. You could have kids and you decide that you like work a lot less than you thought you liked it, your priorities could be completely changed. Or they could stay the same. I just think there's like no way to know. And so to make a decision about leveling up in your career now based on this potential future is not particularly helpful.

Like I understand the planning brain. Like I'm always trying to do that too. I'm always trying to be like, how do I optimize for my future self? But the only way to really make decisions I do think is like based on your current mindset. Like currently would you live? like more responsibilities, would you like to be promoted? Would you like to like? And maybe she doesn't. And maybe this kid thing is like a little bit of like a reason, like a mental reasoning that she can use to justify not really wanting to like. Right, go to the next level. Right. Go to the next level.

Maybe she's happy where she is now. That's like only something she would really know. Or I have a feeling, I think what she's probably see or potentially seeing is other people who are overwhelmed friends who are trying to do everything and seem like they're drowning. You know, like she has friends who are probably trying to take on all this stuff at work and feeling like they're never, I do see a lot of that. And she's not in that, but she might be observing that in other people. Like the biggest thing that I see in my patients are when we do meditations or, you know,

have people kind of come up with a nurturing thought that they need to calm themselves through their life. And this is a lot of not even working mothers, but just the idea of feeling like I am not enough. That is a thread that runs through most of my patients, this idea of I am not enough. So I think that is the fear that the potential to have that be exacerbated when you're working and a working mom is this idea of I'm not enough at home. I'm not enough at work. I'm not enough as a partner. I'm not enough of a friend. I'm not enough as a daughter. I'm just like not doing anything well enough. So I think that's the fear probably for her. But I 100% agree with you. Wait till you get there. And then your priorities will start to reveal themselves. And I've seen this a million

times to exactly what you're describing 100%. You don't know. I've seen women who are a girl boss to the max. Like that's that from the time they're eight years old, they're like most likely to succeed girl boss. And then they have a baby and their hormones change. And all of a sudden, they're like, I never want to go back. All I want to do is be with this baby every second for the rest of my life. I've seen the opposite where someone thinks that they want to be stay at home mom and they spend six weeks doing it and they're like, I really want to go back to work. I never thought I would. But I want to do this. I need both parts of my identity. And I didn't think I was going to want that. So I totally agree. I think you have to wait until you're in it, see how you feel. And

kind of, I know it's hard because you want to plan and prepare, but I think you hit the nail on the head. If she wants to know what to do now, I would just ask yourself, is this something that I would want to do now? Right now. Right. All you have is now. Yeah. And then if when it happens, it feels overwhelming, you can trust that you can say, okay, I have to back out of this now or I can't do that, you know, I'm going to have to set an end date for this project or when this project's over, I'm not going to take any more for the time being. Just trust. that you can communicate your way out of things or into things. And, you know, life is ever changing. And you can communicate with the people at work and people at home to create the life

that you want. Shall we do a betraceousist? Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I truly need your help navigating this life change. So I come to you to ask for advice. Here's my situation. I'm a 30-year-old female and I've recently been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. I'm struggling. I'm struggling. struggling with the diagnosis at a relatively young age, but more so what this diagnosis means for me and my career. For context, I'm a lecturer in public health at a top university in my country. My entire career has been built on nutrition, non-communicable disease prevention, like diabetes prevention and mental health. I've been a young leader working in the NCD space my entire short adulthood life. I know diabetes prevention, treatment, and statistics like

the back of my hand. I've always lived an active lifestyle even now because of my career field. I practice what I preach. I eat a nutritious, well-balanced diet, hitting those vegetable, protein, and fiber goals, L.O.L. I exercise and do weight training two to three times a week and try to manage stress levels. I know and do all of this and yet I was still diagnosed with type two diabetes. I have a family history of diabetes, mom and grandparents, and I know genetics also play a huge role, so it wasn't a huge surprise, but I'm still annoyed and disappointed. I can't help but feel like a fraud in my career now. How am I supposed to be a public figure talking about do this and don't do that to help prevent type 2 diabetes when I myself have been doing it and I still got diagnosed so

young? Who am I now to suggest policy change? I'm just really struggling, accepting that this is my life now. I would really appreciate any advice you may have as I navigate my new normal and an intention that I can use when those feelings of doubt or that I'm a fraud creep up. I appreciate you both kind regards a young diabetic batch. Yeah. To me, this is like good for her career personally. Like that's what I like obviously like sorry you're you're dealing with type two diabetes. But like to me this gives her more knowledge in the space, more firsthand experience dealing with, um, this sort of, you know, with this sort of thing. Like I, I always say this.

Like, I want to get fitness advice from someone who used to be like unhappy with their body and unhealthy. Not that she is, but I'm saying like, I think like the person who's in it, the person who's like struggling in it and actually like, or, you know, or has overcome something or is working with something effectively is the person I want advice from. not the person who's never had to deal with any issue regarding food and public health. Right. She has the personal experience. And also the idea, I think there's also some personal experience in this idea that like it's not easy, right? Like the reality of this is in when you're telling someone, eat your fruits and vegetables and diet and exercise, you tell them that they walk out the door, we all know that's not easier said than done. That doesn't just, it's not as easy as that. So you are the real life person that's dealing with, yeah, I've done this. I try to do it.

I work as hard as I can. And sometimes it works perfectly and it treats everything great and sometimes it doesn't. And it's not, you know, basically diet and exercise still matter, even if they do not. give you total control over the outcome. So that's part of the message too, that you're giving people a real honest picture of what's happening here. Right. She's not saying that I told everyone this is how you definitely, without a doubt, 100% avoid type 2 diabetes. Like if I were listening to a lecturer and she said, I've done all the things right, I still got it. This is, I still had it, but this is how I help control it. Yes. To me is a more empowering message, especially like, Because then it's not about, you know, it's not about, oh, you failed or you succeeded.

And I think that you take the shame out of it. You take the stigma out of it by sharing about it yourself. Totally. Because I do think what's going to happen for real people is when you make it seem so easy and cut and dry, they leave there and they're like, oh, well, that's not easy. That's not cut and dry. When I went to this thing, they're like, okay, yeah, food pyramid and eat this and don't eat that.

They made it seem so simple. I can't do that. Like, forget this whole thing. So when I think you show up as a real person, really struggling with real food choices and a real human body that doesn't react like a, you know, like a math problem. When you diet and eat certain things and exercise and do what you do, your body is not going to turn out exactly like the person next to you.

And I think that's real information that people need to know. But it still is you caring for your body and diet and exercise still matter, whether you have perfect control over the outcome or not. So I do think this is going to, I think, I agree, this is going to shoot you in a trajectory of being a better lecturer, humanizing this whole thing a little bit more, making you more relatable to people when you're discussing if you choose to share this, which I don't think you have to, but if you choose to share this, I think it will really help the way that you relate to patients that you're talking to about this. I think she definitely should, and I'll give a personal example, because I failed my one-hour

gestational diabetes test when I was pregnant. And I remember, like, so then I wound up being fine because I took the longer one, like the three-hour one, which was miserable, but wound up passing that. But in between those two tests, I was like feeling a lot of the same feelings. Well, maybe not the fraud feeling because I'm not in public health or anything like that. But I was just feeling like a little like embarrassed about it or like feeling like I was like doing something wrong or I didn't, you know, I thought I ate healthy. I thought I was like exercising enough and doing all these things and then feeling really bad about it. And then I was telling a friend about that. and she was like, you should follow this nutritionist.

She's like, she has, she's like had gestational diabetes for like both of her pregnancies and she talks about how she manages it. And she's like a nutritionist. She's like, that's like what she does for a living. And just seeing this woman's like page and her talking about it made me feel a lot less like bad about it. You know what I mean? Like a shade like, you know, or like beat yourself up more.

So I think if anything, it's. It's like very helpful for you. It's like the kind of thing where you as this public, you kind of say, if I can get it like anyone can get it. Yeah. And it's not like this nutritionist was like shutting down shop, you know, after she found out that she had this. She's like, all right, this is all pointless. Right. No. She's in the opposite, she's using it to like show like how you manage it. She's neutral. Like here's how, like for anyone else who has it. Here's how you do it. And it still helps. Like all these things still help. You're still helping people, you know, just because you got this, despite everything, doesn't mean that everything that you're teaching people is useless. We have human bodies and they all work differently and everything that you're helping and all the things that you're teaching and all the things that you're learning are still helpful.

So yeah, this might be a blessing in disguise for you. Because I do think sometimes with these lectures, it can feel very impersonal and people can leave and be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know that I have, you know, Oh, right. Either what do you know, especially if you don't present as someone that looks like them or like easier said than done.

I'm never going to be able to do this. Right. And that's, you know, what we talk about when we talk about motivational interviewing, getting people to either stop drinking or stop using drugs or change their eating habits or exercise or any of these things. There's like a few things that go into it. One is how much do I believe that this is going to help? help and also how much do I believe that I can do it? You know, so those two factors matter. Do I have confidence that I can do this? And do I have confidence that this is going to help me, that this is going to improve my life once I get this? So when they're talking to someone that has real experience on both of those factors, I think it helps to motivate people,

where you can tell them, you know, your personal experience in dealing with this. So yeah, I think this is going to be a blessing in disguise. And I hope you choose to look at it that way. I think more money off of this than you think. And that, yes. Could be one of the best things that ever happened to you. Let's, let's find out.

All right. Keep us posted. All right. Let's do some intentions. I will read them. I, Jordana and Dr. Neum, we am curious about your opinions on the following.

And if either of you have experienced this kind of thing in corporate setting. My team has a new manager as of last summer. Every week on our team meeting, they make us do an icebreaker at the beginning and try to get the chatter to go for 30 minutes. That's a lot. I get it if everyone is new or doesn't know each other, but the rest of us has been working together for years. It feels so forced and like a waste of time, especially when everyone is super busy. Why can't we talk about our weekends if we feel like it? That doesn't mean I don't like them. I just don't care what their favorite weather is or their favorite childhood snack is. They also schedule monthly virtual happy hours. We're all remote and it gives me such an early COVID vibe.

I cannot bring myself to attend even if it looks bad on me for my team morale. What can I do or what mantra can you share to help me not get so annoyed every week when this mandatory meeting is approaching? Sincerely, these icebreakers are breaking my spirit fetch. Yeah. When I first read this, I was like, yeah, this is a lot. 30 minutes of chit chat at the beginning of a meeting. for a busy team feels like a lot. You have to come up with a fact that no one cares about. Right. So far.

I agree. So there's nothing worse than forced small talk. I agree. My initial feeling was exactly the same. I wouldn't want to do this. I could see why they don't want to do it. I totally get it. But she's here for an intention.

She has to do it. The virtual happy hours, that's crazy. You have to step back. If this was a triggered, right? I'd be like, okay, this is triggering. You're very busy. There's almost this annoying like pit in your stomach of like I have so many other things that could be doing with this time.

Right. And I'm doing this thing that feels like it's kind of pointless and just wasting my time and making me uncomfortable. And I have to, I do. I remember having. I mean, And even in-person icebreakers are a little different because you feel like there's a potential to like make a friend or form a friendship or do an activity together or something like that. This feels like she probably doesn't see the purpose.

But this isn't a trigger. This is she's asking because she has to do it and she wants to feel better about having to do it. So it's kind of, you know, changing the thought process of if you can't beat them, join them. You have to do this. I'm going to give this manager the benefit of the doubt and kind of think about them as like they're trying, what are they trying to do here? I don't think they're a sociopath that's just trying to torture people with ice breakers, like sitting in the back. Like, oh, this is so annoying. I think they're really trying to create some kind of a culture of like we like each other.

We know each other. closeness. And so I get there's a difference between how was your weekend, which is very surface-level chit-chat. And I know, like, what's your favorite childhood snack feels like stupid? But maybe it does get someone to talk about, oh, like, my father who passed away used to always buy me these peanut M&Ms. And like that was his favorite snack. And, you know, like I, always remember that was a fond memory that I had of my dad or something. And then maybe like, I don't know, in their birthday, you can send them peanut Eminems. And then now there's like this kind of like bond that there's something, a little bit of something there that you can try to say, hey, we can either try to lean into this and find a connection point. And some people, I do think some people bond in this way, because maybe they're a little bit more uncomfortable. or awkward or like have a harder time naturally coming up with conversation.

And it can give you just a little something different to cling on to and bring up in a further conversation or joke about. So I do think that it would be helpful to just see this as an opportunity to listen to somebody in a different way than you would listen to an opportunity to connect in a way that doesn't make you comfortable, but that I think there could be something there. There's a reason why people do icebreakers. This seems excessive if it's every week. Yeah, I agree.

I do agree. I'm not saying valid stamp of validation. This seems excessive, but you have to do it. So it's almost like if everyone would just lean into it and maybe he keeps doing it because he feels like it's not working or the cult. I'd be curious to hear. Like, is there a problem with the culture in this company? I would actually talk to him.

I think that's one option. And she asked for an intention or mantra. So I think that's like the way to go if she's looking to go that way. I think she has a few other options here. One, I think you could privately speak to this boss and say, listen, like, I love getting to know each other. But I don't really have that much time for these meetings. I have a crazy week.

Like, do you mind if I come half hour in once we get into like the work stuff just so I can make sure I'm getting the other. stuff done. One option. I would assume if you're saying you're busy enough and the person cares about you doing your work, they would be fine with that. As for these Zoom happy hours, I say you come in 10 minutes. You're the friendliest person on these Zoom happy hours. You're like all in for those 10 minutes. And then you say, I've got to run. Have a great time. I think like if you go for a short time and be like on when you're there and then leave. Yeah, but that rather than what she's doing, which is not showing up at all right now. Right. And the same thing for the, I think for the 30 minute ice breakers. I think you could

tell your boss, I really can't do this every week. If I have a slower week, I'm happy to come. The week that she comes, I'm on. She's like sharing all the stories. She's responding to everyone's thing. But you don't come the other weeks. You tell them you've got just got too much going on. You're going to join half an hour in. I think that's a good combo. There's nothing that makes like icebreaker happy hour worse than no one wanting to be there. Right. Then doing it. And on top of that, doing it in a way that feels like pulling teeth. So the mantra that I wrote for her is I will embrace the chance to listen and get to know others in a way that's out of my comfort zone. Growth happens in uncomfortable places.

So there's a part of me too that feels like this boss, this manager might be doing this because there's some type of a issue, like a problem with the culture, with the climate, with the camaraderie. But that's not on her. That's on the cut. That's like on that's not at the top. I'm right. So he's trying to overworked. Perhaps. Right. Maybe she is overworked. I don't want saying she's the problem. But she's definitely and and she should communicate like you're saying. This isn't helping. This isn't part of the thing. But I think some people do have this kind of like a, and she's I'm sure not the only one, but have a little bit bit of this like. I'm not here to like, I'm just here to do my work and go home. I'm not here to like be nice and chat and maybe he's pushing it in a way that doesn't feel

right, but maybe there is a climate of like, I don't want to know about you. And you're, you know, I don't want to like be friends. So there's a, right? There's like a block there. Well, then I, I maybe suggest an in person happy hour. Well, I guess I don't know how far apart they are. I don't know where everyone lives. But yeah, I would, I think it's perfectly fine to address this with the manager in some way.

Either we're all overworked, right? So maybe you're right. Maybe the underlying issue is they're all overworked, super busy. And he's like half an hour. Right. What's your favorite color? Right. And they're just annoyed about that.

So it's not going to work versus like maybe if we weren't so overworked, we'd be able to be more friendly and chipper. But I think there's some underlying. issue that he's trying to solve by doing this annoying thing when you're already perhaps all overworked. Yeah, so maybe suggest something else to him that might bring the team together that is less time. It works better for whatever the current situation is.

Yeah, I wish I knew more about this, but I am interested in like these workplace dynamics where it feels like there's just some kind of a culture issue that the manager, I'm not think she is the problem, but like part of the problem in the sense of like, I don't really care to feel any type of relationship with my coworker. Like, I don't really want to have a relationship with my coworkers. I don't want to know that much about you or. I kind of also think that's okay. I would love a follow up, just some more details on what, why. This just does seem super excessive. So if you have any more info on like why you think he's doing this. Keep us updated.

And let us know if there's anything, if you actually say anything to him. Yeah. About changing this. Let's do some triggers. Do you want to read our first triggered? Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, about two years ago, a woman transferred onto my team at work and completely changed the dynamic. What used to feel like a supportive family-like team now feels toxic.

She comes across as entitled, self-important, and constantly tries to position herself as superior to everyone else. There's a widespread belief. our team that she's sleeping with our boss. Even if they aren't sleeping together, his favoritism and behavior feels irrational and unfair to the whole team. The latest example involved a conference in France that both of them were attending. Multiple team members asked about their travel plans, and typically it is discussed in team meetings. To hear about it from clients first was very strange. Instead of simply answering our questions, both were evasive and our boss ultimately responded by

criticizing us for asking and implying we should focus on our jobs instead. I get incredibly triggered by situations that feel unfair, especially when I see favoritism, hypocrisy, or people behaving badly without consequences. The truth is that this workplace drama doesn't directly affect my job that much, but it takes up way too much space in my head. I find myself replaying events, getting angry and wanting justice, even when there's nothing productive I can do about it. sincerely a seeking justice losing sleep batch i can understand the urge to want to be like

something sketchy's happening this isn't fair right i can't just sit back and keep watching this i think she's going to have to there's nothing you can do it's nothing unfair is really happening to you other than like a tone of sneakiness or a sense of like weirdness And I think if she feels that other people feel it too. But like she said, it doesn't actually directly affect her. And she's already leading it back to like her own. What she knows about herself is the sense of like being triggered by unfairness. I get it.

It would be really annoying. You're like you're favoriting this person. Seems pretty obvious that you guys have some kind of sneaky relationship going on outside of here. And the symptoms of that are oozing all. over our meetings and our planning and like you would say, I would just probably enjoy talking shit with everybody else about it. And that's your outlet. And then if it does actually affect you, I think you can bring it to HR. Right. Like if there is something that you feel like is happening to you specifically and this France plan that they're being weird about doesn't really seem to

affect you. I would just stay in your lane. But if it does, if like you get passed over for this person or if something like is actually happening that is affecting you, I think you can bring it in. But otherwise, I think you just need to like say this is, tell yourself, this is my own, like, this is my own thing about favoritism. I don't know, like she says people behaving badly without consequences. I don't know what's, she doesn't describe anything so horrific. Like they're being weird about their France plans. It's not like, you know, they're stealing from the company.

Sounds like they're sleeping together and they're like changing the dynamic. like everyone always kind of talks about their travel plans and meetings and they're like not doing that because they're probably like so then the dynamic can now be like for talking shit about them that's like the dynamic as they've like made themselves this separate entity and now everyone else can still have the same dynamic just kind of like talking shit about them yeah that's a good way to look at it like we're now we're just going to change change the dynamic like accepting the change yeah right this is how it was before Now the two of them have their own little dynamic. I mean, I don't know. She doesn't say that either of them are like married or anything. Like maybe they're just going to have a romance and live happily ever after and they're going to just be together. Like maybe that's a way to look at it. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

The whole like favoritism thing seems to be like them being sketchy about the France details and like being a little snippy about it. Yeah. It's not like, you know, there's some huge promotion that. She was given out after a short period of time that she didn't deserve or. So, yeah, it's interesting because it is kind of hard. Like the idea of they met and they fell in love or something that that's totally unacceptable is hard. You know, like, I don't know. You meet at work.

You meet someone. You fall in love with them. It's a hard. I know it's that you're not supposed to do that. And power. A lot of people do. Right. Power struggles and one's a boss and one's not. But it doesn't sound like there's anything immoral really about what's happening other than that they met at work and it's kind of tough. Right. Making a weirdness. Making a weirdness. Yeah. I would give this a three because it's like a little weird, but it's not really affecting you.

I agree. It's not affecting you yet. I get it. I'm sure there's just little. subtle favoritism things happening along the way. So I get that that's annoying. But again, maybe I'll give it a four just because I'm sure there's some intangible favoritism things that you're picking up on that are hard to articulate, but accepting the change and maybe wishing them, you know, in some ways. It's hard. You kind of like, okay, fall in love.

It's great. What's so bad about it. really, but that is a tough place to fall in love when he's the boss and she's, you know, an employee. And but again, that's, it's a sticky, sticky situation. Yeah, let us know if anything develops from here. Love and update. But right now, I see no, nothing that's happened that's really crossed any major lines.

So, yeah. All right. Let's do one more. Hydrogen and Dr. Newman may have a triggered scenario regarding maternity leave with the company I work for and I'm trying to understand if I have a right to be triggered or if my eight-month pregnancy hormones are just raging. I work for a medium-sized startup company. I've been with the company for five years and I'm at a VP level. When my husband and I reached out to my head of HR asking about the company's maternity leave policy and all available benefits, my HR person told me the company offers five weeks

of paid maternity leave. Their short term and long-term disability and our company also offers unlimited PTO. I got pregnant. I told my boss and HR person at eight weeks. I've been checking in with my boss and HR to establish the final leave plan. For months, the leave plan discussion has gone unanswered as it's early. We still have time to discuss this and just refer to the company handbook. Now I'm eight months pregnant and I asked for a meeting. A few days later, my HR person called me directly and asked how much time I plan to take off because my boss is going to freak out if you try to take more than five weeks. He thinks you're trying to ask for more time off and he's pissed. I clarified I'm trying to map out a plan based on the benefits that the company offers.

I then called my boss directly and my boss stated, I can't have you out for more than five weeks. In our meeting the following day, I clarified I'm not asking for special treatment. I'm trying to understand what the company policy is and what benefits I can utilize. They both stated short-term disabilities only needed if something goes wrong with the delivery. I apologized that I did not understand that about the short-term disability. I proposed I take the five-week's maternity leave and then take two days. is a PTO for the following seven weeks. They said, we'll get back to you.

And it's been four weeks since this discussion. I'm now 35 weeks pregnant and still have not received an approved maternity leave plan. I'm extremely frustrated and triggered by the lack of answers and planning on their end. Based on how this maternity leave discussion has been handled so far, I'm considering leaving. How triggered can I be? Am I overreacting or is this a justified reason to leave the company? Yeah, this is really triggering. This is really annoying.

She's been trying to get ahead of it since the beginning. I think it's triggering on two levels. One, when she asked about the plan, if the short-term disability was like not a part of that at all, then why did they even mention it? I'm pretty sure like you legally, like legally, you get disability. Like I think six weeks is like the mandatory, at least in New York State.

I don't know what state she lives in, but I'm pretty sure in New York State like six weeks is like, you kind of have to mandatorily give something. So the fact that one, they brought up the unlimited PTO. They brought up the short-term disability when she mentioned like all the things about maternity leave. And then when it comes time,

and then when it comes time for the maternity leave, basically none of that matters except for the five weeks. Right. And even this being shamed about even taking the five weeks of like, I can't have you out for more than five weeks. Like most people take a lot more than that. All that. And now she's 35 weeks and they're not even like giving her an actual answer on what her plan is.

Yeah. How is she supposed to plan for herself if she doesn't have a plan? Yeah. This is very triggering. And I think not only for this pregnancy, but if you're planning on getting pregnant again and staying with this, this doesn't bode well for like how they handle things. I mean, definitely take your five weeks if you're going to leave. Yeah. And the other triggering part is just like not having someone basically like ignore it.

Like they're ignoring her. Yes. And then almost like it feels like almost like gaslighting her. Like she's like tried to address the situation. And then they bring it up and like almost say like it's your her fault. Right. I'm assuming there's no other women in her company that have gone through this that she can talk to. It's like a small medium size.

I don't know what that means. I wonder if there's any other women that you can talk to and find out like. how they've handled this. Here's what I would do also. I would document every discussion you've had about this topic. I would document that you, that you reached out at eight weeks, what they said,

like the whole thing. And then I would take all of that to HR and say like, this is really disappointing. You're also like being pregnant is a protected class. So they're not going to like fire you for bringing this thing up. Like you're not allowed to fire someone because they're pregnant. But I would document everything you have. And I would go to HR and I would say like this is like I'm feeling very upset and I'm feeling very like ignored about this topic that I've tried to get ahead of.

And I kind of like don't feel like I have a plan. And I've really tried very hard to make one and just lay it all out. And kind of be like it's not really her job to like make the maternity leave policy. Right. Like that's a policy. She's just trying to find out what it is. Right. And she hasn't been adequately informed about it. So I would just go there and I would say that.

And I would say like it's just really upsetting. and for me and for anyone else who's working for this company, like this really needs to be ironed out. And it's not her job to iron it out. Yeah. What it sounds like they're coming back to her with is you have five weeks maternity leave. Right. Not a day more because I can't have you gone for more.

Yeah. That's basically what they're saying. And again, if they had said that at eight weeks when she asked what the policy was, like, okay, that's the policy. Assuming it's legal. I don't know what all the laws are. But assuming the policy is legal, that's their policy. Like she can then do what she needs to do around.

on that policy. Yeah, but they knew it, they knew it was shameful. It sounds like that's their policy. They were ashamed of their policy. So they tried to like, like hiding your peas under your potatoes. And you have unlimited PTO. That's like kind of what it sounds like is happening here. They had a shameful maternity leave policy.

They knew it was shameful. And they were trying to hide it underneath a bunch of other crap. So she didn't see it. And now, surprise, the baby's coming and they're like stalling because it sounds like their maternity leave policy is five weeks. That's it. Right. And they don't want to like face up to that. So I think, yeah, in the short term, I would plan for the five weeks thing.

In the long term, I wouldn't judge you for finding a new job because of that. That's a very annoying way to be treated, I think, when you're in like this vulnerable pregnant position. Again, if that was the policy, that's the policy. That would be fine. But I think the way they went about it is weird. I would talk to HR and let them know that it's really frustrating and really weird and not really very fair. And then, yeah, if you want to, you've got five weeks, I'm sure it'll be busy.

But if you want to like peruse some other jobs, I think that would be a, no one would, I think that would be a good idea. Yeah. And I don't know if we're the people, but I would definitely talk to someone who's like employment attorney, perhaps, or someone who can weed through this nonsense of whatever unlimited PTO is. And when you go and you presented a plan, okay, here's my, and maybe just go in firmly. I don't know with that plan.

You have unlimited PTO, they said. So you hadn't take two days anyway, right? Because you have a limited PTO. So you can take two days a week as long as you want, technically. So maybe you just, maybe with the other potential, I don't know. Again, I'm a psychologist. I'm not an attorney. So this is not legal advice.

But you just say, you write a formal letter. Here is my maternity plan. Right. Based on what you told me. Based on what you told me. When I asked originally, which is you said five weeks full and then I have unlimited PTO, this is the PTO I'm taking in the weeks after that. Tell them instead of asking them.

And then just if they're not answering you, here is my intention. here is my plan, put it in writing, and then just execute said plan. If they don't want to respond, you can inform them. Yeah, take what's yours. Again, they're not going to be happy. If they're unhappy enough, they will respond at what they're ignoring you at this point. I give this whole thing a six is in the way that it was dealt with. I'm going to even give it a seven.

I find that this is, yeah, just the sketchiness and the not responding. When knowing that she's 35 weeks pregnant and they're still not responding is very, very annoying. And to say like he thinks you're trying to ask for more time off and he's pissed. Like it's not like she has, I can understand if they were like she has eight months off and then like you're trying to get more time. I could five weeks is nothing. It's crazy. Do you have a C section that's not even, you're not even allowed to work out until eight weeks after? Right.

And look into disability like the actual disability laws in your state. Again, I would, or just talk to a lawyer. I agree. This sounds very sketchy. And the delaying and delaying and delaying. Like you could have a baby any minute right now. And now you have to deal with this while. Yeah, it's really not fair.

I want updates from all of our listeners this week. Updates, details, just a little bit more to kind of fill in the gaps here. All right. Well, I think we help some people, workplace stuff, work, life balance. Yeah, let us know what you think in the comments. You are enough. You are all enough. You're doing enough. Leave it. All right. That's our time. Great work today.