P1 with Matt and Tommy - Dutch GP Driver Ratings

Episode Date: September 2, 2025

An abundance of safety cars make rating the drivers from this weekend's Dutch GP almost impossible... but we've given it a go anyway!Tickets to P1 Live in Australia next year are almost sold out! To grab your tickets for those or any of our shows this year in the UK, Ireland and North America, click here: tix.to/p1liveYou can listen to an extended version of every race review episode over on our Patreon! You'll also access to every P1 episode ad-free, early access to tickets & merch, and access to our Discord server where you can chat with us and other F1 fans! Click here to sign up now: http://patreon.com/mattp1tommyFollow us on socials! You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube and TikTok. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello everybody and welcome back to the P1 podcast with Matt and Tommy. Driver ratings. It's been a while, isn't it? It has been a while since we dropped a little zero all the way to 10 for all of the 20 drivers on the Formula One grid. This time for the Dutch Grand Prix. Tommy, how are you feeling about this one? We're back. Are your grades revved up, warmed up and ready to go? They are, it threw us right in at the deep end again. They're like, drive rating. is back and we're going to make it as difficult as possible with multiple safety cars, different strategies, how much do you balance, good fortune, unlucky moments, good, you know, good strategy, bad strategy, driver skill. And yeah, normally with Zandvo, I very much expected maybe 20 laps into this race thinking, right, that's driver ratings, we just do it based on

qualifying. And instead, chaos. Now, I'm going to do a task. I'm going to set you all a task watching and listening. Let's get positivity outweighing negativity in this comment section for driver ratings. Just once. Just once. I'm asking. Just for once. Just tell us how much you love this series and then maybe just maybe us missing how Bortoletto got messed over by a certain safety car

has ruined the entire video for you. So let's get straight into the Man, the Myth, the Legend, Gabriel Bortoletto. He started the race in 13th and finished 15th, I am locking in a five out of 10 for Gabriel Bortoletto. What could have been, I think, for Bortoletto this weekend, a decent qualify, a good qualifying, a very good qualifying, in fact, compared to Holcomberg, who has struggled of late, especially this season when it comes to Saturdays, and then just immediately lost almost all the positions, down to 19th at the beginning of the race, I think.

it was. He said he suffered an issue with the clutch and from there on it was pretty much just roll the dice and hope it works out for him. At one point we thought, okay, maybe stayed out for that second or third, I don't know how many safety cars. There was VSCs as well. But the last safety car he stayed out, took a risk to try and get track position. But this is, we've finally seen evidence, Tommy, where track position did not matter when you have tires as old as that versus soft and mediums around you. Absolutely. Yeah, I've gone for a five out of ten for Borselaetto as well.

Had such, you know, been on such a great run of form. And when he qualified 13th, which I know he's been certainly higher, but ahead of his much experienced teammate, really, you know, smashing him in qualifying at the moment. But it all went wrong, didn't it, at the start? And then getting contact with Stroll. and then it was always going to be difficult from there. So, yeah, five out of ten for Bortolete.

And the fans went for a five as well. Let's head to Nika Holcomberg, started the race in 17th, finished 14th. I've gone for a five out of ten for Nika Holkenberg as well. Qualified Wess, finished just ahead of his teammate on the road, very close. And, yeah, he was a driver that things didn't go his way, but of course he qualified. very poorly, which always makes it difficult around a track like Zandvort. So that's why I've gone for a five. Yeah, he wasn't happy, was he, with some cheap pit stops when the safety cars came out.

I've gone for a five out of ten as well for Holkenberg. Yeah, 17th round Zanvort. You are asking for trouble. And we did not see a Silverstone repeat, a crazy, what was a kind of crazy race, wasn't it, with a lot of safety cars. And there were advantages to be gained. But Nico and Sal were in general just weren't able to do it. So I've gone for a five.

The fans, they agree. They've gone for a five as well. Alex Albon started the race in 15th, finished fifth. Oh, so this one, I've been tossing and turning about this one, Tommy. Because he qualified 15th. So I'm like, ooh, but then I saw his lap one and I'm like, ooh. Oh, his lap one was amazing. So with that being said, it's a nine.

It's a nine out of ten for Alex Albon. I'm sorry. I can't give a 10. The qualifying was poor and of course we had a few cars ahead that were just crashing into each other. And that's literally what he said after the race as well, was that people just started crashing into each other. And that's how Alex gained a lot of positions, but also a great race from him. That lap one was scintillating. If you haven't watched it, I would highly recommend going and taking a look at that.

But it's a 9 out of 10 from me. Yeah, I've gone for a 9 out of 10 for Alex Albin as well. Completely the same logic. it can't be a 10, even though fifth place in a Williams is so impressive. But his start was amazing. That was all his own doing. And he did get up into those positions, particularly towards the closing stages. He was one of the kind of midfield runners that didn't maybe get a lot of their positions

through like good fortune. But that being said, you know, out qualified by his teammate quite comfortably. and then he also was potentially, you know, he was behind his teammate before Sainz had that penalty. So it's not perfect from Alex Album, but what a race. And that start, my word, go seek out and watch that start because it is the stuff of dreams. Like he just picked every perfect line at the start. It was amazing. He really did.

The fans gave him a nine as well. Carlos Sines started the race in ninth, finished third. 13th. I have gone for a six out of 10 for Carlos incredibly, this is a tough one to rate actually because I don't want to be too harsh on him because I do think that penalty was absolutely ridiculous. But then at the same time, I do have to take into account that it does take to tango and you do take a risk every time you go for an overtake, particularly around the outside and around the outside of someone like Liam Lawson as well, who, we know he was a very aggressive driver.

So yeah, didn't work out for Carlos Seintz and should have been a really, really good result for him because a fantastic qualifying looked like he was going to potentially beat Albin until that and then it all just unraveled from there. It did. Yes, this one's slightly difficult to grade, isn't it? Because it depends how much weighting you put on his part to play

in that incident. I have gone for a six out of ten for Carlos. I thought maybe a seven because he was having a really good weekend, but we can't be working with too many ifs buts and maybes with this one. And I agree. As much as I think we both were on the podcast saying, look, I really don't agree with this penalty that's been given to him.

He also did risk it around the outside of Liam Lawson when, yes, by the rules, he has not gained the corner. The problem is, and I guess this is something that until they change the rules will always be an issue of a driver, the defending driver, if they have the corner, they're able to just squeeze the other car. And that's what happened. They both got punctures. So Carlos did have a part to play in that one.

I don't agree with those racing rules at all. I hate them, in fact. I absolutely despise them because you watch that and you go, surely Carlos deserves a bit of space here. But he doesn't and he got a penalty as well. So yet really upsetting for Carlos, another race that's not gone his way this year. And it's a six out of ten from me. The fans gave him a soon.

six as well. Isaac Hadjar started the race and fourth, finished third. So he didn't qualify on the front row of the grid. So I've got to take that into account when I give him a 10 out of 10. How can you give him anything else? Hadjar, close to even contemplating, rubbishing the 11 that Holcomburg got in Silverstone. But look, we're not going to do that.

But it was just unbelievable to watch, to be honest with you. didn't get lucky in the slightest, apart from obviously the Lando DNF, but in terms of the position he was in that was completely by merit, he was holding off the cars behind, LeCler, Russell, etc. In a racing ball. Yeah, the racing ball is good, but it doesn't belong, I would say, fighting with LeCleur and Russell. And he did that and also showed that he has that sort of mentality as well

to hold them off, not feel the pressure. pressure and delivered an amazing race. So it has to be a 10. I'm also annoyed that I wasted. In my opinion, I've wasted the 11 out of 10. We said we'd allow one 11 out of 10. I've seen comments. If I could retract it. Yeah. Yeah, I would, I am saying now I would retract it to give Isaac Cadjar an 11 because for me that's not going to help Hadjar Tommy. That's not going to help him. So when he tunes into this, he's not going to want to hear it. No.

Maybe in the comments, if you allow it. No, no. Don't, don't you dare. No, we can't do that. We can't go back every single time. It's recency bias. Yeah, true. But this, for me, is even better than Holcomburg's podium.

The fact that he just was perfect all weekend as well. You know, the qualifying was sensational. The race was amazing. Had he finished fourth, he's still getting a 10 out of 10. And I'm saying that it's an absolute. sensational drive and basically perfect. I do wish there were less conversations about the racing bulls being this incredible car and if Max Vestapp, and this has come from a Max Vassap and fanboy that if Max was in it,

he'd be winning the race and winning the World Championship by a mile. I don't think that's true at all. And I think Hajar just deserves credit for delivering an absolutely brilliant performance in a card that shouldn't be there. So yeah, it's an amazing job from Hajjar. I do find it bizarre this conversation, Tommy, about this whole. If Max went in the racing balls, he'd win the championship, he'd win races, he'd beat McLeown, yada, yada, yada, because these same people would be saying, these same people would be saying that the Red Bull has the higher ceiling and that Max is able to deal with a really pointy car and able to extract the most out of it, whereas the racing balls

is a sort of a very predictable car that you can get good results out of, but no one has said, or at least up until this point, until this whole Max narrative has come out, that this racing ball is the fastest car on the grid or would be in Max's hands. It makes no sense because to me the racing balls, yes, it's a really predictable car, it's really nice to drive,

but it has a ceiling. So to kind of, as you say, sort of downgrade and sort of, I was going to swear, but I'm not going to, S on Hajjar's performance in some way. It's just not the chatter that I think that should be happening. That is all speculation.

There is nothing to say that Max, especially with the fact that if you think of it logically, Max jumping into a car, he's never driven, without any testing and just rocking up to a weekend. Oh, yeah, just put him in there. See how he does. Okay, it would be interesting to watch him in an FP1. I think it'd be good, but he's not winning. It's not guaranteeing he's putting half a second on Hajjar, is he? Exactly.

I think that's a load of rubbish that he'd just be miles up the road. I think it completely discredits what Hajar did in this race. And he just had the perfect qualifying. He nailed the lap of his life and then managed to, you know, do what he did in the race by keeping the others behind him and, you know, difficult track to overtake. But it doesn't take anything away from him. He delivered and kept the others behind him. You know, there were plenty of overtakes.

So, yeah, it did an amazing job. What on to Hadjar? A 10 from the fans as well unsurprisingly. Liam Lawson started the race in 8th, finished 12th. I've gone for a 5 out of 10 for Liam Lawson. He, of course, you know, you look at his teammate and where he finished. It's very disappointing to be out of the points. Of course, part of that is the contact with Sites. I think he had a kind of...

I've still not seen his onboard. but I think he had kind of his kind of price to pay in that as well, the fact that he kind of tried to squeeze him a little bit, in my opinion. And that is kind of the risk you take that he was kind of hoping that Sites would bail out. But Sites is a very aggressive driver as well, and it's too aggressive drivers that neither of them wanted to yield. And that's the risk you take. So, yeah, disappointing from Lawson.

So do you see Lawson as more of a problem? part to play in this then? How do you weigh? Probably more than, yeah, the same as what I said in the podcast, more than, more than science, but not enough to get a penalty, I don't think. I think he was just kind of basically like doing the bit of a like a Max Astappen chop of like, no, I don't think, like, absolutely not, you're not coming around the outside of me.

And that's the risk you take. And of course, he got a punch for it. Yeah, I was deliberating. No, I was deliberating whether I would go for the same. grade as Carlos, but then I also give slight more waiting to Lawson for this incident rather than Carlos, which again is why it mystified me for the 10 second penalty, but the rating rolls and blah, blah, blah. So I'm going to give a five out of ten. And also his teammates has finished fourth, sorry, third. Indeed. So I have gone for a five

out of ten for Liam Lawson. Yeah, of course, Hajar right up there on the podium is not not the best look, of course, for Lawson who got tangled up in an incident. This was on Lawson. This was his decision to wash wide slightly and squeeze Carlos, even if it's within the racing rules, right? You put yourself in that situation. And, you know, if Carlos doesn't back out, which is what we saw, then this, this contact. Whether there would have been any penalty or anything without the punctures happening, I am not convinced. But, you know, that's a, that's a conversation we had on the main race podcast. See, I'm going to give a five for Lawson. It's a shame because he was the one that was doing pretty well on the run up to this, this.

weekend and it's his teammate that's come back very strong indeed and got a podium. The fans gave him a five. Olly Behrman started the race from the pit lane, finished, sixth. Straight up ten. It's a ten for Ollie. I don't care. I don't care that he had a shocking qualifying and it was in the pit lane. He started from the pit lane, right?

He got a little bit unlucky thinking qualifying. He said it himself and pass in general are just shocking in qualifying. They just really are. They cannot get Saturday's right. And then to finish sixth, yes, there was some luck involved, I think, as well. But they did the right strategy. And Ollie said after the race, right place at the right time, good calls on strategy. And the car was quick as well.

Ollie made good moves, I think, at the end as well, to secure P6. And, yeah, I think to do that around Zanvort, I know that there is a stroke of luck here, but I can't give many less than the 10 because this is his breakthrough moment. I have gone for a nine out of ten for Olly Beerman. Get out. Basically a four. That's why I heard. Yeah, exactly.

Look, a fantastic race from Olly Bearman, pits to P6 in a house. Fantastic result, of course. He did have the much more good fortune than his teammate. Ocon actually was ahead of him and then pitted just as LeClaire crashed, which meant that Ocon dropped a load of positions and Behrman could pit behind the safety car. So for that reason, it's not a perfect 10, but still a fantastic result

and a well-deserved nine, in my opinion, and a very high 9 as well. The fans gave Olly Behrman a 10, not a high 9. Next step is Estaban-Ockon, started the race, an 18th, finished 10th. I've gone for an 8 out of 10 for Esteban O'Con. as I mentioned he was ahead of of Olly Behrman before the dose of bad luck

he lost a bunch of positions behind the safety car because of the timing you know it was similar it was weird that he literally pitted and then Lecler had his incident with Antonelli and worse timing possible for Ocon so I think he needs to be commended for still being able to basically drive back past a load of people

and get a points finish despite the bad fortune. So that's why I'm giving him an eight out of ten. Lovely bit of insight, Tommy, there, about Esteban Ocon. I've gone for an eight as well. That is a very fair piece of information. It could have easily been O'Con that finished sixth had he not pit. A good result for Hasse and for Ocon could have been better, as we say.

He said afterwards that lost three, maybe four positions with the safety car. But yeah, a very, very positive result for Hasse in general and for Ocon. The fans gave Ocon a seven. Three points, three points. Three points of difference, Tommy. That's crazy, yeah, I know. To be fair, they may not have known that lovely piece of information and they might have changed their greatest now.

Let's go to Franco Colapinto. Started the race in 16th, finished 11th. I'm going to go for a seven out of ten for Franco Colopinto. Yeah, I think it was a race. that he can be proud of. He gained places off of the start. He overtook Ghazley and then gave the position back to Gasly. But then I think he was then once again later on,

I mean, towards the end of the race, I think, with Gassley struggling, they were swapping again. But overall, Colopinto, yeah, he missed out on points, finished 11th, but I'm still considering this Alpine as being one of the stinkers of the grid. And I think Franco, when you compare him to Gassley as well, did a very commendable job. So that's why I've gone for a seven.

I've gone for a seven as well for Franco Colopinto. He was half a second off a points finish, incredibly close. Of course, you know, he kind of, I bet they wish now that they hadn't allowed Gassley to get back through because Colapinto ended up being the lead car. And that was the nature of this race. And we said at the start kind of jokingly about how difficult this driver ratings thing is. and this just showed it between the two Alpines that that race changed so much with how the tire strategy went

and the fact that people were risking it on soft tires, hard tires, medium tires, doing different things, that even a team like Alpine, they didn't know which car should actually be ahead and then sometimes it's like, oh, Gazzley's in the better position and then equally Franco's in the better position and it kind of swapped. But to be half a second off of the points,

he needs some credit for sure so very disappointed he didn't get a point actually but yeah seven out of ten the fans gave him a six Pierre Gasley started the race in 14th finished 17th

I've gone for a five out of ten for Pierre Gasley a very disappointing result I think it looks worse on paper he just risked it at the end tried to stay out and obviously just fell away he did did the thing of just well if i pit i'm way back at the back in the pack i'll stay ahead hope for more carnage safety cars maybe even a red flag and i i stay ahead it's something that we've we've

said before of other teams why not at least just try it so i commend them for trying it because you know you never you never know you're never know and you look like a genius if it does pay off but instead the people on fresher tires just just flew past him and he tumbled down the order at the end. Yeah, I've gone for a five out of ten as well. 17th, yeah, it doesn't look great on paper. The fact that, you know, after that last safety car, he was running in the points. And that's the only way he would have scored points. So you've got to commend Alpine for giving it a go and for Gassley for trying that strategy. But yeah, he was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. So that's all gone for a five. I'm not going to downgrade him any lower than

that. He went for it and it did not pay off. The fans gave him a fine. as well. Lance Stroll started the race in 19th, finished seventh. Unbelievable. How on earth do you grade a man who's crashed the car twice and then scored more points than this teammate? Well, I'm giving him an eight out of ten, Lance Stroll. Congratulations. You did it again. You know, he becomes a meme. He crashes multiple times in one weekend and then finishes seventh. Like, the guy clearly can drive. We see this. And perhaps there needs to be some respect put on his name sometimes, right? There are times where he absolutely deserves the criticism he gets. But he does do these kind of drives every so often. And to go from 19th to 7th should be commended.

It's obviously there is some downgrading there due to the fact that he obliterated his car twice. But he bounced back. He said it himself. And I have to give him an 8 out of 10. So well done, Lance. I have gone for a seven out of ten for Lance Stroll. Yeah, obliterated the car in practice and qualifying, started at the back, but made it through to seventh. We say in crazy races that Lance Stroll does manage to get to the front even when, you know, he, of course, had good fortune with the timing of safety cars and things.

but he made it through into seventh place and it's still a good result for Aston Martin to finish seventh that's like a strong result when the kind of midfield is close so yeah I've gone for a seven four months so let me just let me just let me just let me just for a second so pit lane

to P6 Rolly Behrman nine out of ten 19th to seventh is a seven out of ten is that where's the downgrades coming from because that's what my brain's probably thinking that's probably why a few fans Crashed the car in practice Crest the car in practice Criss the car in qualifying

Got those Is that a point each Let's say there's no crashes What would you be in? It's not a 10 though is it For finishing 7th No I can give a 10th Because

No no but even if he finished 7th Like his teammates finished 8th with bad luck So like Seventh is probably about Where the Alonzo Copings The Onzo's Coathe

Coathe And then of course He got let through By Alonzo to go after Bearman, which he didn't do. So, like, he's finished out of Alonzo because he's been let through as well. So that's why.

Was he the faster car, though, at the end there, though? Because he had fresher tires, yeah, because Alonzo pitted just before the saved car. It's amazing that you know almost every turn that Alonzo's has. Yeah, because I watch Alonzo's race. Full on board. Okay, the fans gave Lance an 8 out of 10. Let's head to Fernando Alonzo,

who started the race in 10th. finished eighth. It's a nine, no, it's a seven, it's the same as Lance Troll. A seven out of ten for Fernando Alonso. Of course, I can see everyone going,

oh my God, why haven't you given him a higher grade? But like, he finished ahead because Alonzo let him go at the end. He had all the good luck in strategy. Alonso got shafted constantly, but that doesn't mean

I'm going to give Alonto like an eight or a nine because he did have his own shortcomings kind of struggled to get to get past people. and yeah qualified 10th finish 8th is like a solid result I think kind of Aston Martin based on what Alonzo did and could have achieved in qualifying and what we saw from the Aston's I don't think seventh and eighth is the maximum that car could have achieved so that's why they're both getting sevens interesting because I felt like Fernando did say like there wasn't much more pace in the car afterwards so maybe we got baited by 10 for Fernando we got baited by practice I think with

with the Aston's and especially in Hungary as well I've gone for Seven out of ten for Fernando Alonzo. Look, I've got a commended teammate. Worse than Strull. Yeah, got a commended teammate that when he's done something like that. Even though I'm saying? Do you think there's a bias for Stroll

in the fact that when he does something bad, he gets an unnecessarily harsher grade and when he does something slightly good, he gets an unnecessarily good grade? Perhaps. Yeah, look, sometimes we have our driver ratings, which obviously get questioned all the time. But we kind of, we also take into account

what we expect from a driver as well in some ways, don't we? So what I expect from Lance Stroll and what I expect from Fernando Alonzo are two very different things. And perhaps that's where confusion sometimes lies. So that's where, you know, my grades are usually very low for Lance. So I'm going to let him cook with an A, you know, enjoy the money. That's what I'm going to say for Lance. And for Fernando, yeah, I genuinely, I thought there was a top five in it for Alonzo this

weekend. And it did not, didn't work. He lost places at the start, dropped to P13. and then he said that the safety cars didn't help but as I look at all the quotes almost from everybody that finished from sort of sixth below they really didn't or maybe seventh below they didn't enjoy the safety cars

so there's actually there's a radio as you joked that I watch every single lap of Fernando is it screaming yeah yeah the safety car he'd literally pitted and this is like the ultimate time where you get shafted isn't it when you pit and then the safety car comes out and yeah he He just made his pit stop, dropped right to the back, and then Hamilton had crashed,

and they came on the radio to say Hamilton had crashed safety car, and he just basically let out the most annoyed grunt ever. Yeah, it was quite sad for Fernando. That man wants to be stroll so badly in this title. That means more to him than it does to me, that stat. Yeah, I mean, but the fact that he's even having to try, Tommy, does that say that Lance is one of the best drivers on the grid? We'll come back with that one.

Yeah, as we saw from his brilliant 8 out of 10 drives. as you said. He's so salty. I love it. So I've given Alonzo a seven and the fans gave him a seven as well. Kimmy Antonelli started the race in 11th,

finished 16th. It is going to be a three out of ten for Kimmy Antonelli. Everyone will be proud of me for not giving him a zero for taking out Charlotte Clare, but here we are. It is a three out of ten.

It was a misjudgment. It was a six. silly error. It's not a, you know, not an absolutely catastrophic incident as much as it felt like it at the time. Yeah, I'm seeing more and more criticism for Kimmy Antonelli coming up now, and it is interesting to see people's opinions of Kimmy and, you know, has he been promoted too soon? You know, there are mistakes coming in now that is almost each weekend, but then Canada's so easily forgotten and it's potential, but there's a lot of. of mistakes that we thought was going to happen at the start of the year, but it's happening now.

It just needed to have a chill race, just needed to finish in P5, P6, and this would have been a lovely A out of 10 drive. But instead, he ruined it and didn't get any points. So it's a three out of 10. I found it a bit strangely. He said that Charles started to come down the banking slightly, and that's when the contact happened. Shah was right at the top of the banking, my guy. He was not coming anywhere near you. It was you that came into him. So three out of ten. Don't let me, don't open those can of worms again. We're just going to pass to you time. You'll be giving him a zero by the time.

Yeah, I'm going to change my grade by the soon as talking. I've gone for a three out of ten as well. It was between a two and a three. I'll go for a three because I think until that move, he was looking to have a decent result. He was having a great race. He was taking away from the fact. He was having a very good race.

And yeah, it was a stupid move that didn't need to happen and all his great work was completely undone by a totally unnecessary move that was never on. I'm changing my to a two. He sped in the pit lane. It's a two out of ten. I just thought of it as well.

I just thought of the Charlotte Clarence again. It's a two out of ten. Thank you. And then of course he sped in the pit lane as well. And yeah, it's just a nightmare for Antonelli because I appreciate the fact that he's on fresh attires. He knows that's his only chance to make a move. But you need to kind of use your brain there of like,

risk versus reward. And I do appreciate he's in a top team and the pressures on him more. But that being said, you know, you didn't see Hajar when he was within half a second of Stappen trying to go for an absolute hero move and try and get a podium. So yeah, it's a tough weekend for Antonelli. And hopefully he can bounce back from it because this should have been the race where we just forgot about that end to the performance. the summer break. Well, he's heading to a track that he ended up in the wall after a lap and a half of free practice. So he'll be full of confidence. He's incredibly good in a Formula One car at two-thirds of that track. I can't wait to see how he gets around that parabolica. I hope he does

good as well. I really do hope he delivers in Italy of all places. His home race as well, yeah. Exactly, yeah. The fans gave him a three out of ten. George Russell, started the race, and fifth, finish fourth. Oh my word, this one's difficult. I'm going to give George Russell a 7 out of 10, which is insane because he finished fourth. It's a tough one because I look at the result and I see fourth and you go, that is probably whereabouts the Mercedes was. But then, of course, Lando Norris retired, two Ferraris retired. I know Hamilton would have been behind him, but LeClaire was ahead of him. and also he's been beaten by Isaac Hadjar.

So yeah, I'll go for a seven. I do think that George maybe had more in him this weekend. But it's still a decent race from him. And a crazy result, actually, to get P4 is kind of like what he would do sometimes on his best days. But I don't think this was his best day. No, it wasn't his best day. I've gone for a seven out of ten for George Russell. I think that the damage was massively hampering him.

He said after the race that he was losing a second per lap because of the damage with Shal. So for him to still finish fourth is wild. But he also then said that it was a bad start from him, poor driving to let Shal through, and just overall wasn't the best race. So yeah, as much as fourth looks great on paper, there's a lot more I think that was on the table for George, at least in race time. there's not a lot of many more positions you can gain,

especially when you've got Vestappen and Piastri in first and second. But, yeah, third would have been an easy eight or nine out of ten maybe for George. But instead, it was kind of what could have been. And perhaps did he really need to squeeze Shal as much? It wasn't generational. I'm going to use that word move from Charlotte Glouba. We'll get on to that. But, yeah, George, squeezing him a little bit too much,

caused him to have quite a bit of damage. The fans gave him a seven as well. Yuki Sanoda started the race in 12th, finished 9th. This one. This one, this one's a bit crazy, you know. I'm going to go for a 6 out of 10 for Yuki Sonoda. I thought, yeah, I'm happy for him. Do I give him a 7?

But then I'm like, it's 9th. And cars literally crashed in front of him. And it was a crazy race. And he still only finished 9th. It's sad to see. From what he's saying after the race, he's feeling a little bit more confident in the car. and there's pace being extracted

and qualifying is quite difficult around here and it's such a short lap and the Red Bull clearly isn't there anyway in comparison to the McLaren's but it's still nowhere near like an eight or a nine out of ten performance in my eyes so I'm going to have to give it it's probably not going to go down very well

but look it's ninth and he gained positions from drivers not finishing so yeah there you go Tommy am I in the wrong no you're not I've gone for a six out 10 for Yuki-Snoda as well. It will go down badly, but I think when you put your sensible

hat on and not judge it with your heart and go, yeah, Yuki was in the points, you can't be, it's not a 7 out of 10 drive for finishing 9th in a Red Bull. I know we know the second Red Bull and on all this guy, we have this conversation every single time and my sister happens to finish the race in second. But even with that, the fact that the second red ball has been incredibly hard, to score points in. He's finished ninth in a race of attrition where two Ferraris and a McLaren have retired, where Isaac Hadjar has got on the podium,

where Lance Stroll has smashed his car twice and still come through and beating him, where Olly Bearman has finished six in a house. So ninth is not, it's not a mate, it's not seven out of ten worthy in my opinion. So, yeah, I've gone for a six as well. the fans disagree. They think it is seven out of ten worthy because that's what they have gone for. Max Verstappen started the race in third, finished second.

I have gone for a nine out of ten for Max Verstappen. A difficult one to grade because how much of it now is like, can Max only get a ten by beating the McLaren's, but can anyone beat a McLaren? It's a tough one because he got one of them at the same. start. He tried everything, but it was quite clear from from everything that played out that the McLaren's were just too far gone. So second was the best he could have possibly, well, third was the best he could have possibly hoped for and then one of the McLaren's retired. So yeah, I've gone for a nine out of ten. One thing that when I watched back the replay,

because so much happened I totally forgot about, was that absolutely mad start that we didn't even cover in the podcast because so much happened towards the end. But my word, that was insane. The fact that Lando had kind of, Vestappen went for the kind of glory overtake around the outside of Oscar Piastri to try and take the lead. And in doing that, actually allowed Lando to get back through. But Max was like, absolutely no way you're coming through. And how he didn't lose the car.

and I mean what a different world championship would have been if Max had lost the car and smashed into the side of Oscar Piastri and Lando won so crazy. No but then Lando wouldn't have won. Hagear would have won. Hagear win, yeah. An alternate reality, Hagear wins the race. Oh my, with a Lando DNF a few laps from the end. Goodness gracious me, that's a different, that's a realm.

Yeah, true. I have gone for a 9 out of 10 as well for Max for. Stappen, a very solid weekend from him, bouncing back after a bit of a drought from the podium. Was it Silverstone the last time he'd had a podium? So, yeah, a really good bounce back from Max. I'm not surprised in the slightest. That move on, as you say, on lap one, that was just ridiculous. Had he just binned it, that would have been quite the...

I don't know how you would have coped with that one, Tommy, to be honest with you. But the fact that he even managed to get ahead of Norris, you know, it was a great strategy, cool to start on the softs and just try something different, maybe hope for a bit of rain coming. I think that's the kind of thinking they were having. And it was the right decision. And you knew it was coming. You knew that he was going to try that from the fact that he had beached it in the gravel when exactly term one.

And Oscar did a good job as well to defend from Max trying to swing all the way around the outside with slightly grippier tires. But yeah, Max, he's pretty much done the maximum, but I'm not going to give him a 10. Because it's so hard to really grade these things, isn't it? when car performance can change quite drastically, especially in the Red Bull. The fans gave him a nine. Lewis Hamilton started the race in seventh, did not finish. Oh, Lord, this one's a difficult one because he'd crashed on his own and it was a little bit slippery,

but everybody was dealing with the slipperiness. It's going to be a two out of ten for Lewis Hamilton. I'm really sorry, it has to be. I can't give him a higher grade than Kimmy Antonelli. It's shocking to see that Hamilton was the only one in those slightly damp conditions to be the one that made the mistake and crashed. Up until that point, he was looking pretty good in comparison to Charlene qualifying. It was very close between the two of them.

Hamilton was not far back from Charles during the race as well. And then it just all went wrong. I couldn't believe the sort of flash cut camera angle. to a Lewis Hamilton that's crashed in the wall. It's bizarre to watch. And it just further compounds the season that he's having at the moment. So, yeah, I can't give him any higher than the two. I really can't because he's crashed out through no fault of then his own.

Yeah, I've gone for a three out of ten for Lewis Hamilton, same grade that I've given. Antonelli, a big error, a very costly error. you know, running wide, crashing the car on your own. You know, he's the only one in that race that has retired through essentially his own fault. So a really difficult race for Hamilton when it was looking good. And had he just finished behind Leclair on the road, had LeClair also not been not obviously retired, we'd be saying, oh, you know, it's not really too much to worry about.

but instead everything's going to kind of ramp up again and all the chatter of what is going wrong with Lewis Hamilton. And may I also add the reason I went for a two is not only because of the fact he crashed out on his own, but he picked up a penalty before the race even begun by speeding around the final corner when there's double-waved yellows and then he's just gone into the pits like practicing, coming into the pits during a race.

And that is something that the drivers were told prior to the pre-race reconnaissance. Monson's lap is that it would be double-waved yellows because of the nature of the track. So that in my mind, you know, it's not a, it's not anything but a Hamilton mistake. Everybody else slowed down enough. He only slowed down by 20 kilometres an hour in a double-waved yellows. And now he's got a five-place grid penalty for Monza. Something I said in best reactions was that I'm a bit disappointed with the stewards to have not made that decision, which literally happened before the start of the race and he's carrying a penalty

into the next race because they had to look at telemetry here and telemetry there and this, that and the other and this is why it was a slow process. It's like that doesn't make sense to me. What do you think, Tommy? Yeah, and I know what you mean. Like it was a big error, the fact that Hamilton got a penalty for that. And if they've been told, don't do that, then it's on him to make sure he kind of respects those rules. So yeah, it's a big one to take that penalty.

penalty into Monza because, well, is this going to be a race where you think Ferrari would deliver even the years that they have a tough, a tough year. They do seem to get to Monza and know how to kind of make that car work. So it'll be absolutely gutting for him if Ferrari are are quick and challenging at the front that he has that five place penalty. Yeah, watch Hamilton get pole at Monza now. You've heard it here first. It would be a shoemaker.

It would be the shoemacker at Monaco all over again. Well, Michael Schumacher at Monaco, that is heartbreak. I will never get over the fact that he had a penalty into the race. Okay, so let's not talk about that. The fans gave Hamilton a four out of ten. Interesting. Charlotte Clare started the race in sixth. Didn't finish either, because neither of them did.

I've gone for an eight out of ten for Charlotte. Yeah, he was driving a good race, the move on Russell. I absolutely loved. That's what I want to see from Formula One drivers. And look, I've said this before. And I said that I'm so glad they did not penalise that move. And it's just further cements that Charlotte Clare is one of the best wheel to wheel drivers in the sport. And yeah, it was a great, great result.

I can't give him a nine personally because, in my opinion, he was going to finish behind. jar. We don't know what would have happened out the pits and it wasn't his fault for pitting again. But of course he was then ended up behind a couple of cars as well. And it's all if buts from maybes, but it was still a good race from Charlotte. Clare. Well, you know what, Tommy, I can go for a nine and I will because I think Charlotte Clare was having a great race, to be honest with you. That Ferrari, especially at the start of Friday, was looking shockingly bad. and they managed to turn it around to have a pretty good qualifying. And then from there, I know we're saying like Hadjar,

you know, Hadjar's the benchmark. How can we give anyone else any other good grades? But Hadjar had a phenomenal weekend and got every last droplet out of that car. So I'm not going to take away from Charler's race just purely because of that. And I'm not giving LeClaire a 10. I'm giving him a nine because I think it was a very good race that he was putting down. And had, you know, that move on Russell deserves a 20 out of. 10, just that.

Like, he came from so far back, Tommy, on George Russell, of all people. Anyway, that's my, that's my court cases that Charlotte Claire deserved a low nine. A low nine, low nine. Please don't help me. Okay. Okay. Well, I just want to grill you, because I know you like to grill me on my fan boy. No, no, no.

I am helping the fans understand. So go on. Hit me back. Okay. I just, I just would love to hear your kind of theory of why Charlotte. LeClaire deserves the same grade as Max Stappen, who finished second in the Red Bull when Chal qualified sixth wasn't massively quicker than Lewis Hamilton, and then, of course, made that move, but it was going to finish behind Hadjar, and then we don't know where he's going

to finish, because I know it wasn't his fault that he crashed, but we don't know what would have happened in those last 20 laps. Sure. Thanks for the question, Tommy. Next time, don't ask it, No, I'm kidding. I think that the reason I've gone for that is because I'm not putting the Red Bull and the Ferrari in the same universe this weekend. I think that Max has done a very good job and that Red Bull was decent. Yes, we look at Yuki Snowda. He's struggling. Yeah, whatever.

But we know that that's, sadly, the second seat is an anomaly. Yeah, Max did a very good job. Is it a 10? No, it's a high nine. Charlotte Close a low nine. But we don't do lows and highs here. We just do absolutes time. We don't.

As we said, yeah. Exactly. And I know everybody's going to be writing. their opinion as well right now. And the difference between an eight and a nine is astronomical, isn't it? It's an entire number. So, yeah, there you go. I'm standing on business, Tommy. I'm standing on the fact

I was having a fantastic weekend. And we're going to go with a nine. The fans also went for a nine. Please get your comments in and how you agree with me. Thank you. So we now head to the McLaren's. Oscar Piastri, started the race and first finished first. Well, this is going to be difficult, isn't it? It's a 10. It's his first grand slam

of his career. Well done to Oscar Piastri for that. He had it in the locker, very close in qualifying. I know that Lando has been saying that he got a bit unlucky with the wind and things like that in qualifying. I'm kind of sat there going, I mean, the wind can change at any point. I know he's talking more about the run to the line and the fact Oscar did also get a little bit of a slipstream, I think, from a racing ball. So yeah, there is small bits of luck here and there, but that's Formula One. Oscar managed the race perfectly well.

He made sure that Max didn't get a. sniff out of term one. And from there on, he just seemed untouchable. Yes, Lando got close, but we know with Dirty Air, there's very little chance of him getting close. I think Lando one lap had DRS and then from there fell away. So it is a perfect score because it's a perfect weekend from Oscar. He literally, yeah, got the grand slam.

So well done. Yep. It's a 10 out of 10 for Oscar Piastri. Perfect score from a perfect weekend. Very close margins, of course. but got the pole position and then just raced away at the front. You know, he had the luxury, of course, of being ahead, but he got the pole position,

and that's the position that he put himself in. So it's a moment of the championship, of course, as well, where he got some good fortune in the fact that Lando had the failure. But I just hope that if Oscar Piacciari does win the title with a decent points margin, we won't look back on it and kind of consider him like this really good fortunate champion

because he's driving superbly and I think he absolutely, you know, is the way he's driven so far, he's absolutely deserving of this championship anyway and we'll find out what Lando can do in these final races, whether he can overcome that points deficit

and we'll see how it all stacks up at the end. But yeah, Piastri is just driving so, so well and what a what a big drive from him. Yeah, a massive drive from Oscar and yet you cannot say that he is not a deserving champion at the end of this season. He has had so many flawless weekends where he has just dominated from the front. And that is the sign of a champion. It is unlucky for Lando and we will reflect after Abu Dhabi what the points margin is.

But at the same time, Oscar has been brilliant and we can't take that away from him. The fans gave him a 10 out of 10 as well. Lando Norris started the race in second, technically finished 18th, but basically a DNF. I've gone for a nine out of ten for Lando Norris. Incredibly fine margins, of course. It's very, I think it would be very easy to go, oh, Lando, some people will go, oh, Lando deserves an eight because he got passed by Max and all this kind of stuff. But like, it was such a small gap in qualifying that, and once you're,

kind of on the dirty side of the grid and Max had soft tires, I think it was going to be a little bit difficult anyway for Lando. I don't think that's him bottling the start or anything. That's just Max doing a brilliant start and taking that risk. And then, you know, made the move back, caught Piastri up. I've heard some people saying that, you know, he pushed his car a lot to try and catch up. His team told him, of course, you know, the only way we're going to win this race is for you

to absolutely go for it. And that may be the case that them turning the wick up and him absolutely going for it is kind of risking the car. But you can never, you know, Piastri's also had equally had races where he's gone after Lando and not had car failures. You can't blame the car failure on the fact that he's just kind of gone for it. in the Formula One now with how reliability is working and how bulletproof a lot of these cars are, you couldn't expect even McLaren when for them to basically let Lando go for it, they would never have thought in their wildest dreams that it would result in basically a mechanical failure. It's just bad luck.

So that's why I've gone for a nine for Lando. the very fine margins could have been very different had he got pole position, but of course he didn't. So it's a nine. It's a nine out of ten for me as well for Lando. It is another weekend, back-to-back weekends now, where he gets a pretty good start and then gets shafted because of the way in which he selected his track position.

Of course, Max on the soft tires was always going to do something and he did. And of course, got a great start as well. But in comparison to Oscar, you know, when we first saw, Oh, Lando, has he got a good start? So you can't really say he bottled the start. It's not like he got a horrendous launch or anything like that. It's just the way of Zambort where you can swing it around the outside. And when your opponent has softer tires, then they're always going to have an opportunity.

But apart from that, he didn't put a foot wrong. He was just behind Piastri. Sadly, in the case of Formula One in these days, just can't get close enough to overtake. And so fully does deserve a nine out of ten. He said after the race that you get dirty air at four seconds, and he said he was pretty happy with the fact that he was able to stay as close as he was, not that that gives him anything, but he said it was reassuring. So it's a nine out of ten from me.

The fans gave him a nine as well. So finally, who is our P1, Isaac Hadjar? Tommy, what's yours? It's Isaac Hadjar. Sorry, the editor is going to hate me for that. I should have said a few things so that it comes up. Well, we'll slow down now, and then you could have to have the level. Who is our P1, Isaac Cadjar, there's my scores.

Isaac drove phenomenally well as we know, and no one else is more deserving than that for my P1. Yeah, it's definitely Isaac Adjah. As I said, it would be an 11 if I hadn't used it. Can't keep saying that, Tommy. You can't keep doing this. Well, they're migraised. Yeah, but 11 isn't there to be given out, Tommy. You've already done it.

We both have. We set the rule, didn't we? We said we're allowed one 11 a year. We did. Now we need five 11s. There we go. Perfect. All right.

Thank you, everybody, for tuning in to this driver ratings episode for the Dutch Grand Prix. We're back once again for the Italian Grand Prix literally this weekend. Looking forward to that on YouTube and Twitch for our watch along, as always. Tommy, what are your final thoughts? Final thoughts are as much as we banter about the driver ratings and how when we have a crazy race, it makes it more controversial and you have to have opinions on how people did based on their kind of performance and also good fortune. It also makes it way more interesting.

So, you know, despite us having like disagreements and I'm sure other people have disagreements, it's a lot more fun when we can kind of have interesting debates about why we think things are better than others. And just because we may have given a driver one point, higher or lower, it does not mean we hate them. This is all just a... Apart from Matt, he hates Fernando Alonso. Well, no, I just... I actually just revel in your disappointment and sadness.

Yeah, that was basically just... ...a bad grade. So, yeah, there you go. Right, thank you, everybody. We'll see you soon. Lots of love, take care. Bye! Bye!

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