P1 with Matt and Tommy - How to save the Monaco Grand Prix

Episode Date: May 23, 2023

Monaco is a race that splits opinion, has F1 outgrown it or can it be saved? We discuss your suggestions of how to improve F1's most prestigious race! Follow us on socials! You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube and TikTok.***Please take the time to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your pods. It means a great deal to the show and will make it easier for other potential listeners to find us. Thanks!*** Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, everybody. Another P, one podcast with Matt and Tommy. Yes, today we have entered Race Week. Once again, this time for Tommy's favorite Grand Prix of the year. Or should I say qualifying? Because that's basically all it is. It's the Monaco Grand Prix, a controversial race. Some people hate it.

Some people are Tommy. It's just the way the world goes round. Isn't that right, Tom Bellingham? It is. It's not my favourite race, but I like it. And I'm glad it's here. So you're glad it's here, but we're going to do some tweaks. We've got some thoughts from all of you wonderful people

that watch and listen to the podcast to essentially tell us how you would save the Monaco Grand Prix. And we're going to weigh in our washed opinions onto each and every one. But before we do that, let's share our five-star review. If you want yours to be read out, please do leave us a five-star review and tell us why you listen to this podcast. This one comes in from TNTS 81736 from Mexico.

I started listening to Man Tommy as my go-to podcast when I wanted some pub banter about Formula One. Is that all we are? Are we just pub banter, Tommy? But then the unexpected happened. My wife and my step-kid loved it too. Why was it unexpected? Come on.

I mean to talk to this person. Now we listen to it religiously. Great show, guys. Congrats. Thank you so much. TNTS from Mexico. Lots of love. Glad you've been enjoyed.

or the whole family have been enjoying it. A whole family. So that's great. Hell yeah, the P1 family. We love to see it. Right. Let's get into how we're going to save the Monaco Grand Prix. First, we asked you on our wonderful YouTube community,

if Monaco belongs on the F1 calendar. 50,000 of you voted and 67% of you said yes. So how many burner accounts did you create, Tommy? That's what I need to ask. You say that, but that's a... a big percentage to say no still. One third of people don't want the most prestigious Grand Prix that, bearing in mind how much like Formula One fans hate change, they love their classics.

That just shows how divisive Monaco is, I think, because you, you wouldn't get that anywhere else. Like imagine WC fans saying, no, we don't want Lamon or Indy 500, we don't want Indy 500 for Indy car. It just wouldn't happen. So I guess that just shows that Monaco is that divisive and is also rarely very good. Yeah, to be fair, if I was given, you know, the option, it stays or it goes, I probably would still be in the yes category.

And that's not just because we're going to the Monaco Grand Prix this weekend, I promise. I genuinely do think it has its place, but it has to allow for a bit of moaning. You know what I mean? Like, we're allowed to get a little bit sassy about it, but it can stay on the calendar due to all of its heritage. We're not real F1 fans if we don't have a good moan, are we? Exactly. That's why most of our podcast is pretty much moaning.

So how do we fix it? I think we're both in the camp that Monaco should stay. Grace as well, I can hear in the background, having a little scream. So she feels very passionately about Monaco staying. And now we come to your suggestions. I know, ah, in the background, to be fair, with noise cancelling, everyone may not have been able to hear it,

I heard it and Grace definitely on the Monaco to stay bandwagon. So the first suggestion that comes in is from at Villa Jake F1. Smaller cars, simple. Look at the amount of overtakes at the Monaco EPRI. Proves it's a simple problem to solve. How simple is getting smaller cars? Change in the entire regulations. Simple problem to solve.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, really simple. I agree, I think that that is genuinely one of the big reasons. No pun intended by the fact that the car's big. But one of the main reasons why we don't get overtaking. Not that we've necessarily had much overtaking ever at Monaco. Like even when the cars were smaller, Monaco has always been difficult to overtake. I don't think Formula E can really be used as a comparison here

because those cars have very low. little aero. They don't take the corners very quickly. And people just dive bomb and it's a little bit sort of, it's a different kind of racing Formula E. It's a bit more bumper car. It's a bit more, oh, it don't matter if we will bang or send it around the outside. There's definitely less aerow wash.

So, and also as well, the leader is always or tends to always be the slowest car anyway, because he's backing off and trying to save energy. So I would say formula is a difficult. example to use here when we're looking at Formula One. But smaller cars would help, but I don't think it would fix Monaco. Tommy, what do you think? I think this is a problem with modern Formula One in general. I personally think that the Formula One cars, they need to be smaller.

We went to Alpine. I said it when we went to Alpine. There was the Alonzo's Renaultz-R-25 in there. and the new car looked comically big compared to compared to it and no wonder they can't race. I mean, just to like go a little bit off topic a little bit, but I think this shows that Monaco is not just Monaco. I don't think that we should lose. I'm not these, these tracks are easier to pass and not impossible like Monaco, but

your Zandvorts, your Imola's, your Suzuki's. we don't get very good racing at there. And I think that's because of these giant cars. And yeah, for me, I think that this is something that Formula One does need to address because if they keep getting bigger and bigger, we're going to lose loads of, you know, are you going to just start saying that to every single classic track, you know, and we might get to the case. I don't want to get to the case where the only circuits that work for modern Formula One cars

are these like massively wide purpose built circuits. it would just be a bit a bit daft. But Formula E did show that the circuit, while difficult, is not impossible. So I do think that would certainly help, but I don't think it's the answer. Okay, Villar Jake, thank you so much for your suggestion. Next one comes in from David Henry F1. New layout to promote overtaking, either that or scrap the race entirely. Geez, David, calm yourself down, my friend.

A lot of people said that. One or the other, it's like a completely different track or get rid of the race. It's now I don't know Monaco like the back of my hand, but surely if we're changing the layout, are you literally where we go around this track, it's one, not Monaco, the Monaco Grand Prix anymore. But two, do they really have that much flexibility in where, We move it. It's not an airfield like Silverstone, is it? Where you can just go, oh, you know, let's reprofile it a little bit.

Yeah, let's make it a bit wider here. Because if you make it a bit wider, all of a sudden you're in the water. So it's not like there's much that they can really do with it. We either accept it at this stage, unless we've got a few more suggestions. Don't worry. But from those two, I don't think we can really change much. There isn't a lot that we can do with the current Monaco layout. No.

I mean, call me crazy, but I see a lot of videos and a lot of suggestions of, you know, people get the Google Maps out and they're like, look, they could go here, they could go here. And I've seen, you know, some mods where they turn left before the tunnel and do a whole new wiggly section and then come onto the main straight. I don't, I don't think that should be the case. I do think that the beauty of Monaco, and I know people don't like it, but for me, being able, one racing, year, been able to see a completely unchanged track since the 50s, like, yes, it's ridiculous, but to see modern Formula One cars race around the track that was still pretty much what it was like in the 1950s, I think is incredibly special. And qualifying obviously is amazing. Yes, the racing is not, it's not great. But that's why I wouldn't really want to change it. I think one thing ironically is that

the old version of Monaco, if you go back, the changes they have made is probably actually worse because they didn't used to be the swimming pool, which you could argue leaves a, makes it more difficult to overtake into Raskas. I think the only thing I would change about the circuit is you know that final corner where old Schumey did that brilliant overtake on Alonsoe. I'm sure you remember that. Well, yeah. But do you not think that when they come around that final corner they have to sort of like rather than just being like a nice smooth turn it's like quite tight and then they have to go back to the left a little bit it kind of like cuts in so it's almost like a mini chicane if you like if they just opened that corner up I feel like it would still be really

hard to overtake but occasionally when someone did get a good run out of raskas you could follow down the main straight DRS you might get a pass in yeah this is the thing like I I know we're going, oh, you might get a pass, but I don't want the circuit to be easy to overtake. Like, for me, you just like pain, don't you tell me? You just love a bit of pain. No, look, listen, Monaco, I'm going to defend this race. Although I can see the passion.

I'm enjoying this. There is room for one race a year where overtaking is almost impossible, especially now. Like, the biggest complaint, right, is that Red Bull just breeze past everyone in the DRAs. and if they can't do that, Monaco, it would be exciting. There'd be a good, you know, it's a different, it offers something different, 23 races, one race where it's really hard to overtake.

And I think back to like Monza, where Ghazly won or Hungary where Ockon won, that wouldn't happen at other circuits. So sometimes, dare I say, overtaking is not the be all and end all and actually can make for exciting races because Monza was terrible. That race that Gasley won, nothing happened.

The only excitement was the fact that you had an Al-Fa-Tauri leading and it was like, oh my God, an Al-Fa-Tauri is going to win. The only way a race is interesting with no overtaking is if an underdog has managed to get their way

to the front of the field, which requires something ridiculously crazy to happen, which doesn't happen. It happens once every blue moon. So, What you're saying is if someone gets pole that isn't supposed to get pole, even though qualifying is all about the fastest car, then they will maybe win the Monaco Grand Prix because it's really difficult to overtake.

So it will happen once in 100 years. Okay, let me put this. But it's worth staying on the calendar. Let me put this to you. Let me put this to you, right? That Monaco has this reputation of being most predictable, boring, terrible race. And most of the time we're right. And yeah, maybe.

It depends. It's all about perspective. Here's my perspective, right? Red Bull, the biggest problem with, if you ask neutral Formula One fans right now, the one thing they'd want more than anything I would say would be for Red Bull not to win. Just one race. It's been forever. Even I'm saying that.

And I support, like, this happen. I want anyone other than Red Bull to just win a damn Grand Prix. It's been far too long. And if you look at the calendar and go, what's the one race? where they might not win. I think 99% of people say Monaco. Cheeky LeClair win, Alonzo win, something like that. That is the hope of this race.

So actually, it's the most unpredictable grand prix on the calendar. I thought you're going to go, so actually, you're welcome. Well, that is it. To be fair, Alonzo has been hyping up one of the Grand Prix that potentially that Aston Martin could win was Monaco,

or is Monaco coming up. So we'll see. We'll see, because if Red Bull look out the front row, then... game moment. Yeah, we're in big trouble. So we'll have to wait and see. Next suggestion comes in from Phoenix 84.

DRS through the tunnel. I mean... Helps give it go, doesn't it? Yeah, I mean, I guess the FIA trying not to have DRS round kind of corners just purely because of the lack of rear stability with the opening of DRS. Again, I'm not sure how much this would actually change.

you'd get a good run that that i'd say that is probably the main place you still will see it for safety this reason they don't right yeah was it what was that year where they opened it a silverstone yeah and they allowed it in one of the corners then i think eric was it erics had like a massive crash at the corner and then they never did it again um but i think what year was it that the step and started at the back and even though they were the massive giant cars i think most of his overtakes were into that corner. So if you, yeah, if you give them DRS for a lot longer, I do think that is the main place we do see a lot of the overtakes at Monaco.

So I'd not be against it, but I just don't think they'd ever do it because of safety. No, no, they wouldn't. It's too hard of a right. We need a push to pass. Exactly. Yeah, it's too hard of a right. And it, yeah, it does, it does cause some level of hazard, I think. It's painful though because you always get to that tunnel section and you're like

this is the closest I've ever been but it's just not there's just not enough room and the cars are so quick now that it's over in like two seconds down that tunnel yeah it's just not a long enough straight is it so I think Phoenix nice idea don't think it will happen for health and safety if it was safe sure let's add it in but I don't think it really is at this stage next one comes in from Will's Toy Clear after the tunnel, you can just go straight on, but only four times a race. Ah, that really paints a picture of health and safety.

That does. So you've got some people that are taking the normal, hard breaking zone and others that are taking the F1 game, I'm going to cut this corner and go flat out. That sounds like an absolute disaster waiting to happen. I like it in the sense of an F1 game, you know, visualization. But I can see you're trying to add in a little bit of a WR, what was it? Yeah, the joke collapse, the WRX.

Yeah, the joke collapse with WRX. And I just don't think Monaco is the place that we can do Jokelapse, especially in this part of the track. No. Joking aside, huh, no pun intended. Joking aside, the don't joker. Oh, okay, cool, cool, cool. I don't want to see anything like that ever, like implemented in Formula One because one one one thing that we used to complain about was overtaking in the pits.

And I'd rather them overtaking the pits through strategies and things like that than rely on a joker. You know, they should be able to come into the pit lane and try something different and put some different ties on to try and pass than. rely on some ridiculous joker lap which i know is kind of a tongue in cheek suggestion but i've seen it seen it a few times saying oh we've got to do this for monaco but no not not for me i don't i don't want to see sort of it's just not possible it's too comical like it's too it's not f1 you just can't do it anyway especially at monaco so um yeah when you mentioned when you mentioned about that

and the cars like steaming and we've seen a few accidents haven't it was charlerclair's brakes failed and when he was at Salba, he flew into the back of Hartley. Like that would happen when you don't know the person in front is taking the chican or going to go straight on. Exactly. Or it's even as sketchy as like Canada where you've got that pit entry.

That was literally what I was thinking the Canada pit entry. That pit entry is so sketchy because some drivers just try and absolutely yeat it into there and others are breaking for the chican. So no, no wheels toy clear, but thank you so much for your suggestion. Next up is from Jones RF 873.

soft a tire to ensure at least two pit stops. I'm on board with this one. I think tires are the way to go. And I genuinely don't think there is any solution out there that makes Monaco a banging Grand Prix ever, apart from if we somehow managed to manufacture a slow car at the front of the field and then we get chaos.

But I think if we're not going to go down the whole circus route, a softer tire, even like an ultra soft tire, something that makes it, it up, something different for Monaco, but then should it be different? Because why would, why does Monaco get a different set of variables than the rest of the season? Why should it be this circus? Why should we have to, you say that though, but sprint races, sprint races, they're different. They're starting to like, oh, we'll do this at this race and we'll do

this at that race. But where does it end? Where does it become a sport where you actually don't know whether you're coming or going because there's so many different sets of rules because Monaco is boring and then we've got six sprint races and the rest are normal and then in some of those normal races they're then changing qualifying so that you have to use soft, medium and hard in different sessions. Just have to be careful, I would say Formula One. And this is the, I think this just happens to be the solution for Formula One racing itself.

I said this to you the other day that my God, I'm just dreaming of a Grand Prix that's not a one stop. and I think that would just make it so much better. I watched Imola 2005 the other day that F1 showed because obviously they were showing some races. So you're like, yeah, I'm going to win it. It was exciting to watch people come into the pits, and I didn't even like refueling,

but just watching them pit more than once just made it, there was always something going on, even though there was absolutely no overtaking at all because they couldn't follow and pass a bit like Monaco. But when there's actually things going on in the Grand Prix, you're like he's on different strategy he's doing that problem is now everyone starts on the same tire pretty much and they just go to a pit window like backoo either a safety car or something happened they all pit at the same time and then that's it to the end of the race so um this is something

that just needs to be implemented in formula one anyway and i think monaco would lend itself perfectly to the thing you said in the one rule that we'd change where if you make the tire gap completely different because we've seen overtakes in Monaco where driver starts last, Maxostapp in 2018, like I said. He made some good passes there and you can do it. It's really difficult, but it's exciting when they do do it because it's rare and it kind of, it looks a bit sketchy and it's like brave. But you need such a performance advantage and that's why he had in 2018 because because he's driving against cars that are like two, three seconds slower. So you need two different compounds that are like four or five seconds apart.

And then I think that would be great because 2011 was such a good Grand Prix at Monaco because you get stuck behind and then you can pit and then you've got ultrasoss to like carb your way back through the field. You just need like strategy changing and stuff. And I think that is just Formula One in general, not just Monaco. And I think if you had that, Monaco wouldn't step. I think bad racing and the bad regulations we've got at the moment is making Monaco even worse.

And it will always be, it would never be the best Grand Prix on the calendar. I can admit that. But it's always going to be bad if it's a one stop and the tie is never degrade because you can just hold the field up. Whoever's on pole, hold the field up and then just pit and then you saw it. So. Or one thing to change for the Monaco Grand Prix is 15,000 of you voted is just to get rid of it. And then we'd have, you know, this would be a much quicker video.

You know what I mean? So I love how passionate you get around this. Next suggestion is from Comey Gabby. I would make a quick, weird quali. Everyone has a lap to do, alone, has only one chance with the same amount of fuel and fresh tires. Order would be decided via a draw. I mean, I am all four one-shot qualities, but it doesn't need to be a game show.

The Monaco Grand Prix does not need to be a wheel of fortune, spin the wheel, let's see what prize you've won. I think that that's where you almost, I think in some ways, especially for those that love the heritage and love the history of the Monaco Grand Prix, to go too farcicle would almost be a bit of a, slap in the face to the history of what's actually happened there.

So, I mean, I'm all for one shot quality. And I think Monaco could be a good place to do it. But having things like order would be decided via a draw and things like that, I don't know, it might be going a little bit too far in the wrong direction for me. But one shot quality in Q3, Q1, come on. Chop chop. Yeah, that's the way to do it, isn't it? I'm all for that, but I'm not for like drawing lots and crazy things like that.

You're right. It's similar to the fact that Monaco, the novelty is that it's a race that hasn't been changed for ages, you know, 78 laps of those streets is pretty much what it's always been. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't tamper with it too much. It just comes back to like, if there was more interesting things in the regs, they would be a better, it would be better in general. I don't think, I guess,

I'm trying to say here is that I think there's bigger problems that you could fix Monaco, but I think these things need to kind of happen everywhere. We need two-stop races. We need cars that can race each other better. So, and then Monaco will still be kind of, oh, it's quite difficult to pass. I've seen four overtakes in the whole race, but it's not an absolute snooze fest where nothing happened. I couldn't help but laugh. That was probably the longest sentence you've ever said without actually saying anything for that first part. I was like, Tommy's going to get there eventually.

There he is. We got there. We got there. You can see how much, like, your brain's just on fire, all this Monaco GP chat. You just... I need to defend this Grand Prix. You do. And you defended it well, sir. Well done. And the final suggestion comes in from at Nick. underscore someone. Saturday qualifying and a sprint Sunday qualifying and a sprint or mandatory two stop. Sorry.

So on Saturday to have qualifying and a sprint race basically. And no, no because it's just going to be doubly as bad isn't it really? Like and a shorter race as well. Like I, my argument is that you need more strategy

at Monaco and it doesn't matter if they're overtaking in the pits because it adds jeopardy and the changing of positions and that's what makes it exciting. Too many races, that's the problem with a sprint. There's no jeopardy. Like it would just be a procession for 30 minutes. Unless we throw in a little sprint, reverse the grid. I think Monaco could be a banger.

It would see a little like probably an Alphatari win the race because no one can overtake. But I'm here for it. But then it's just silly, isn't it? Just for banter though. I know it's silly. I know it's farcical. But look, these are the kind of suggestions. It should be a prestigious race that you win.

Yeah, it definitely should. I'm only bantering. Yeah, no, I know. But this is the thing like you could reverse Monaco. You could do a sprint race there, but it just wouldn't work. I saw someone messaged me the other day being like, I don't know if it was about Monaco or another track where they said, I think it was maybe even Baku when we said about how bad that race was.

Why don't you just flip it around? Why don't you just flip it around? Why don't you just, and, why don't you just? And obviously, for those that don't know, a track, you can't just do in reverse just purely because it's there because of the safety parameters and the, and the, the, the tire barriers and everything is put in a particular way for a certain direction of racing. You can't simply just flip it round. You can't do a spa and go down the hill. Yeah, because if, well, if you think Monaco, right, the, you, you, if you were reversing it, that that whole first corner uphill, you make a mistake, you're going into runoff. downhill, you're going straight into a barrier.

If your brakes fail, you're picking up so much speed and there's no runoff there. Like, yeah, it completely changes the whole thing. I mean, it'd be good on the F1 game again, but not, unfortunately, in real life. It's not practical, no. So we're now going to come to the stage of this chat where we decide one of those suggestions,

or perhaps our own suggestion, on how to improve Monaco. For me, I am very much on board with the tyres, I think that it was Jones saying about a softer tire to ensure at least two pit stops. I think having that massive gap is the way forward. And one of the only sort of reasonable, not over the top suggestions where you go, ah, that was like a nice little tweak we made to Monaco, but nothing crazy like flipping the track upside down and racing underwater or something like.

It's very much like a case of just the slightest tweak to the tires. Yeah, I agree. The tyres for me is the solution because, dare I say, if you had a race where there was a huge gap between the tires, so you'd see passing and then you'd have different people leading, you know, if you had a race, even if there's no like overtaking on track where the stop and pits, he loses the lead, then you're, you know, he might be stuck behind another car, but he's got way better tires. and then it's critical that he has to pass, otherwise it's going to lose strategy. You get a really exciting race and more exciting than what we've seen on the bigger, more open tracks because you just get a bit more unpredictability and stuff.

So tires are the solution for Monaco, definitely. And I think just F one in general, because at the moment, one stops are not the one. So if we had, yeah, if we had this, I think Monaco would be a lot, lot better. And this bit is not to do with the racing, but I'm going to ask through the question, which I think I know the answer of what you're going to say is, should every team do a special livery for the Monaco Grand Prix? Yes, definitely.

McLaren have just done something similar at Indy 500, where they've done their LeMont, like their LeMond winner as a livery on one of their indie Because an F1 Monaco winner and then an IndyCar winner as well. We saw the golf livery, didn't we? And apparently Williams might be doing another one, which is quite cool. But the publicity that McLaren got for that Gulf livery at Monaco makes you wonder why teams like, let's see throwback livery from other teams. It'd be really cool. Has sitting there like, we're new.

What would they do? Rich energy, bring it back. Oh my God. I don't think anyone wants to see that back. No. No, absolutely not. Okay, well that is pretty much that. Tommy, what are your final thoughts?

My final thoughts are that everyone remembers the 2016 Monaco Grand Prix where Danny Rick was robbed. And the drama of that race, I don't remember a single overtake. from that race. But I remember that race as clear as day. I think a lot of F1 fans would as well. I saw someone actually talking about this, and I thought it was an interesting point. Three races earlier was the 2016 Chinese Grand Prix.

Can you tell me anything about that race? 2016. 2016, China. I mean, you're really testing my memory here. I'm going to go with no. That's the correct answer. It had the most overtake. in Formula One history, had 161 overtakes.

And I think that just proves the point that overtaking is not everything, because that was the most overtakes in a Grand Prix. And I looked at the classification. I don't remember anything about it. Rossburg won by 35 seconds. Oh, yes. It was just nothing happened. Yeah, Rosberg's a bit of a, he's a king of China, isn't he that man?

He does love a bit of the Shanghai International Circuit. Wow, that's a lot of overtakes. But there you go. Tommy trying to make a point about why Monaco should stay on the calendar. Overtaking is not everything. To be fair, at Monaco when Danny Rick had that problem with his Red Bull as well and then still managed to win with Vettel chasing him down, wasn't he? A lot of memorable races.

Yeah, not a lot of overtaking, but still a lot of tension. You remember them? I do, to be fair. And the four car battle when there was the red flag and then Vettel could change his tires right at the end. That was an amazing race. Yeah, until. Monaco's the goat. Monaco is the goat.

Well, there you go. Thank you, Tommy, for your final thoughts. My final thoughts are, yes, I think Monaco should stay. Thank you for your suggestions. It's just one weekend, as Tommy says, every single year. It's just one weekend. We'll get through it. It's different.

Qualifying will be amazing. And Tommy, you and I are actually going to be in Monaco for the Grand Prix. So there won't be any Twitch watch longs this weekend. However, we will still give you loads of podcasts. We'll give you loads of content, hopefully, as well, on YouTube. And you can look forward to that. And if Alonzo wins, you may not see Tommy ever again. I will be killed off the end of the boat.

Having had far too many to drink. Yeah, I'll be doing the jumping into the harbour celebration. Oh, goodness me. Yes, please. I can't wait to see that. And being banned from Formula One forever. Forever. Love to see it.

Oh, what a way to go, Tommy. There you go. Thank you, everybody. We'll see you very soon for another podcast. Bye. Bye. a Stack production and part of the ACAST created network.