P1 with Matt and Tommy - Max Verstappen could join MERCEDES in 2025!

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

You read that right. There are plenty of rumours flying around, so it's time for an emergency podcast - could Max join Mercedes next season? We chat about the potential implosion happening at Red Bull and wonder how he might fare if he actually went there. Tickets for our live shows in April have almost sold out - get yours right here! You can sign up to our Patreon here! You'll get access to exclusive episodes you won't hear anywhere else, every P1 episode ad-free, full driver interview videos, early access to tickets and more!Follow us on socials! You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube and TikTok. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello everybody and welcome back to the P1 podcast with Matt and Tommy. Today is an emergency episode because, well, we don't usually report on rumours and speculation, but more things are being said and we have to talk about it because this could quite literally change the whole complexion of Formula One. And this isn't even talking about Lewis Hamilton to Ferrari. That will be small fry news if this actually happens and Max Verst happen. leaves Red Bull at the end of the year. But it is absolutely kicking off.

It was clear, clean sailing for Red Bull. We thought they are done for the decade. And now we're here talking about potentially Max Verstappen, leaving for Mercedes in 2025. What's happening, Tommy? What is happening? The guys just won the first race of the season by 22 seconds. And now it's being reported that, you know,

there's rumors that things aren't going right and he could leave and there's a lot of pieces of the puzzle happening and after the Hamilton rumors and we said this could cause a crazy domino effect we thought that would be Vastappen locked in at Red Bull but how bad is the drama at Red Bull that this is even a consideration now as I say we wouldn't usually report on this sort of stuff because you know whatever but then firstly the Lewis Hamilton to Ferrari thing was again another thing. We're like, ah, whatever. Then it turned out to be true.

So we had to jump on that. This, obviously, nothing's been confirmed. But the thing for me that's made me go, I think we need to talk about this is Amos reporting this. I don't know how you actually pronounce it. If it is AMUS or... But them reporting this, they're a highly reputable source.

They are what I would consider a gold standard. A lot of the things that they come out with are legit. And they have said that Max Verstom. Stappen is the hottest candidate for the Mercedes seat alongside George Russell. I nearly fell off my chair when I read that. I was like, no way. This cannot be real. Well, Toto, of course, was asked about this, saying,

look, could you receive a Stappan at Mercedes? And he said, well, you know, never say never or something, words to that extent. And based on the Hamilton Ferrari rumour, anything is possible now. it's funny that this has come out after barely a few days ago Toto Wolf riled up Timm LH a bit by basically saying that the reason they didn't want to give Hamilton a long contract was because Kimmy Antonelli is waiting in the wings they didn't want to lose him like they did with Max Verstappen.

He said that Max Verstappen was this hot property. Everyone wanted him and the reason he went to Red Bull is because Red Bull could promise him a Formula One seat because they had two Formula One teams. And Mercedes didn't have that. They had Rossberg and Hamilton at the top, so they couldn't accommodate him. And now they're having conversations, it seems.

And Yoshostappen has been pictured in the paddock chatting with Toto. And this is crazy. That it's even a consideration. I think that is the thing. You know, we're not here saying it's definitely, going to happen but like you said the lewis hamilton thing uh happened and the fact that this is even being considered and being reported like like this is absolutely insane and just shows that

there's more to this rebel situation than we know deep down as well so as far as we're aware obviously i'm sure everybody is um up to speed with what's going on with horner but the allegations around inappropriate behaviour has blown up. Like it has gone to a level now that it cannot be ignored. Everybody knows about this. There was a Google drive link supposedly passed around to everyone in the media and, you know, whatever. We're not going to get into whether it's real or not because we don't know. But the fact that that that has come out after the whole like, oh, we've done an investigation and it's okay, shows that like this isn't going to go away.

I think that that's the one thing you can take away from it. that whoever is doing it or involved and whatever side it is that is kind of sending these things out, they are stopping at nothing to make it happen. Exactly. And Horner, how does Horner still have support to stay in that role? It seems like he's digging his heels into the ground right now and saying, well, I'm not leaving, but then everyone around him, even potentially losing his star driver, is the consequence of Horner digging his heels in,

not accepting a dismissal by the sounds of it, and it could genuinely be blowing up Red Bull from the inside. It's just absolutely baffling. They had a team and a whole harmony before this that could have won for many, many, many years. You think that when 2026 comes into play, oh, that's when the Mercedes and the Ferrari. But Rebel is so far ahead.

They can probably start looking to 26 now that they had the perfect synchrony for everything, but it's all kicking off. And I think the, obviously, the big thing that we've been seeing is Yoss Vestappen saying that the controversy is driving the team apart. He says it cannot continue this way. The situation is not good for the team and is driving people apart. And then also, Yoss said to the Daily Mail that the rebel would literally explode

if Horner remained in his position. And he is playing the victim when he is the one causing problems. They were pictured having a massive argument as well, the paddock um yeah it is it's crazy because red bull won the first race so easily the step in 22 seconds clear uh of his teammate who finished second one two clean sweep fastest lap led every lap and like you say the only thing it seems that can stop them is something going wrong in themselves and that appears to be happening like it is an absolutely crazy story And you're hearing so many things from people within Red Bull who you thought were, you know, like Helmut Marco talking about he's concerned that everyone's going to leave.

And you thought that him and Christian would, you know, that they've worked together for so long. They'd stick together. But it seems like people are picking sides or whatever. And there's just no harmony in that team at the moment. It's insane. Let's not forget as well. There are other elements to this for at least the future of Red Bull. Helmut Marco said that he's concerned about the turbulence in the team could not only drive away Vestappen,

but also their, obviously, star designer Adrian Newey and future engine partner Ford, who have been public in saying that they were looking at all of this to see how it's resolved because they want a partner that is clear and transparent and clean and all that sort of stuff. that that's another thing to think about for the future of Red Bull. Yeah, what happens if they don't have an engine? If they just go, well, this is damaging them. I know Red Bull have, not to this extent, but they've never shied away from controversy and stuff

and their name being out there, whether it's Helmut Marco saying something inappropriate or whatever, but a big company like Ford aren't going to want to have their name associated with all this carnage and chaos, are they? No, and I think it's clear from this whole thing that racing and performance is one tiny factor in all of this and that the human level and everything going on within the team is so much more important.

And that's why we're talking about this is because it genuinely seems like a possibility that Max Verstappen could walk away from a car that is absolutely dominating. And you then just think, firstly, could this actually happen? for me at this stage it seems yes like we obviously are fans looking from a from the outside looking in

trying to get any kind of pieces to this puzzle but I mean the fact that even Toto Wolf has said you know it's not impossible you do wonder how much of it is just stirring the pot just to sit you know because of course Mercedes would be very happy to cause a little bit more I don't know heat onto the Red Bull and to try and distract them and there's always competitive advantages to be gained as well from that sort

side. Yeah, exactly. Oh my God. I'm actually, my brain's fried. My brain is absolutely cooked from this. It is crazy. And you do, while it does sound absolutely insane, you've got to think, I know Red Bull are in a dominant position right now,

but there are so many other things that can change in Formula One. And the likes of Helmut Marco, even Yostappen, will know so much more. than we do about the inner workings of that team. And if he has heard that, you know, I'm just saying in a theoretical, theoretical situation that like Ford aren't happy and might, you know, pull the plug on the whole situation and the whole engine thing, that leaves them massively on the back foot for 2026. So why would Max want to drive for them in 2026 if they have to start their whole engine development

again because we know that from what we've heard it might go back the other way like it did before where it's not all about aerodynamics it's a bit more like an engine formula and that that engine side of it

is crucial in 2026 so if that doesn't go well it sounds absolutely insane and people will go oh no that's not going to happen but we said that about Mercedes in 2022 no way Mercedes are going to of fall off. Like imagine, imagine in, we said this so many times, but imagine 20, end of

2021 saying that we'd be here in March 2024 and Lewis Hamilton hadn't won another race. Yeah. Everyone would be like, you're deluded. Yeah. And people will say that about Max, always going to dominate it forever, but there's so many factors at play here. Yeah. And if you think, when it was an engine formula last time, so the hybrids being brought in, that's when Mercedes absolutely wiped the floor with everybody else. They were literally turning down their engine. Like, they were so O.P. That Williams got pole in Austria accidentally because they had a Mercedes in the back of the car.

Like, we are moving back towards that again in 2026. And you're so right, Tommy, it's literally like future-proofing Max Verstappen right now. When you actually look at it, not just from a, oh, well, Red Buller dominating, why would he leave? But you look at from 26 and beyond. And if there is this internal turmoil, and if Ford, you know, a lot of this is ifs, obviously, but if Ford decided to pull out, what happens to Max Verstappen and that car from 26 onwards?

Mercedes as well, they could easily just drop in a little, yeah, we think we're going to be pretty good in 2026, just saying, you know, there's a seat there's a blank check. You know what I mean? I mean, what a way as well. I mean, I am sure, from a Mercedes standpoint, seeing that tiny crack in the door

to a Max Verstappen joining your team, they're going to be like, Hold up. Kimmy Antonelli, sorry, bro. You can wait a couple of years. You can get in that Williams, my guy. We're going to go after Max Verstappen. Because what a storyline that would be for Mercedes to save face than signing Max for Stappen. Did we not say losing Lewis Hamilton, they need a star driver. I think we even maybe said, like, well, Max isn't available. Maybe, maybe this is the opportunity that would make it available. It is a crazy thing to even be discussing and I did not expect to be here even giving it a light of day but it is kicking off.

We're supposed to be recording F1 driver ratings right now for the Bahrain Grand Prix and we went well that was a terrible race let's talk about Max for Stapel instead because this has just come out. Now let's play a bit of a theoretical game because this is a bit of fun we're discussing it with Formula One fans, we're excited.

Let's say this becomes real. Max For Stappen, it's announced he's going to Mercedes in 2025. I don't know, Tommy, if you're excited or scared by that prospect as a Maxford Stappen fan. Can I just say if he does do that, the grid will literally be looking like, you know, on the F1 game where there's, like, when they first introduced the driver transfers and it just kind of changed and there's no sort of. And you're like, what? Why is Hamilton in a Williams or whatever, things like that? It will literally look like that where like, imagine at the start of the year saying that, oh yeah,

Hamilton in a Ferrari, Vastappen in a Mercedes, and then, yeah, like, it would be crazy. We've gone from last year. It's like, oh, we didn't have one driver changed. This year, everybody's changed. Every single driver has decided to move. Okay, so theoretically, Max Vastappen does decide to walk away

from the turmoil that's going on in Red Bull, thinking of his future, 2026 and beyond. He might as well sacrifice a year, perhaps even a championship, in order to then think about maybe the next five championships from 26. Who goes into Red Bull? to partner potentially Perez, maybe not. Maybe Perez has gone as well

and Rebel have a completely new driver lineup. We don't know about Perez's future either at this stage. My man Fernando Alonzo. We are going to see a four... I actually tweeted 43. He would be a 44-year-old world champion. If, obviously, Rebel decide to go for that, if Max leaves.

But I could see it. I could genuinely see Fernandez. We see Fernando on the blower, come on, give me a year. I'll show you what I can do. Well, I saw a picture of Flavio Briatore chatting to Red Bull. So make of that what you will. Wait, what does Flavio got to do with Fernando these days? Fernando's man.

Oh, he's don't work with him, yeah. Oh, okay. There's always going to be talks like we mentioned before. You know, Perez was chatting to Toto. Since was chatting to. to Horner and Helmut Market and stuff. That would be so fascinating because essentially you'd have one year

where, and even if Red Bull, theoretically speaking, to use Yoshafasthappen's words, explode. And the whole thing is just absolute chaos. They lose Ford. They lose Adrian Newey. He lose Max. And the whole thing is going,

theoretically speaking, like all that chaos, there'll be drivers that go, well, I don't care what a dumpster fire is in 2026. Yeah, have you seen that Red Bull? Have you seen that Red Bull? Yeah, you would absolutely take it. And no one better than Fernando Alonzo,

who probably knows that his time is up soon. He loves a bit of drama as well. Yeah, loves the drama, but one year where, you know, he can go for it, maybe win a title, or at least deliver wins. And then, yeah, in 2026, it's a mad thing to think about. But if they are in a bad way, it doesn't matter because you've essentially had one year of being in a very, very, very good car.

Loads of drivers would want that. They'd take the risk of it. We could be looking at Logan Sargent, world champion in 2020. 25, you don't know. And it does beg the other question of, and maybe this is just wishful thinking for neutral Formula One fans, but Red Bull won that first race by 22 seconds, and they've started the year. And at the end of the day, all the chaos doesn't really matter in terms of performance, because

they've got a very good car and a very quick driver. if this is still going on in 10, 15 races time, how is that team dynamic still working, how are they pushing forward development when there's so much chaos? It could, in theory, like, everything could change. You just don't know.

Like, there's so many interesting factors. It could all be absolute nonsense, and I'm sure there'll be a lot of people going, oh, well, sure, of course they're going to still win and Max will win every race. But this is crazy. I can't remember a team that's been this chaotic where it's been so divided

and there's clearly people trying to get Horner out. It's clearly people or his team that, no, I'm definitely not leaving. And it seems like neither party are willing to budge, even if it completely jeopardizes the entire Formula One team, which currently are looking unbelievable and have an amazing car to just completely dominate a season. Big deep breath. You know, we have gone into Dreamland, but I think that it's necessary because

Yoss Verstappen, of course, going public with his words is a big thing. And then obviously as well, as I say, AMUS and. Reputable sources genuinely commenting on this is something that's kind of made us sit up and take note a little bit here. Okay, so Tommy, who is Red Bulls driver lineup in 2025 if this happens? Fernando Alonzo and... Colossines? Maybe. All Spanish lineup.

Oh, my God. That would be unreal. Yeah. It could be. I genuinely think if Max goes, it could just be anyone. Like, it could be, it's just chaos. It's just absolute chaos. It could be Tom Bellingham. Oh, let's not go that far. If they're not seen your Formula E drive. Come on. Right. I think that is about it. What about you? What about you? Fernando. Okay. I think Fernando Alonzo would literally kick the door down.

He'd drive for free. Yeah, yeah, he'd pay. He'd pay 40 million just to get that last world championship. I think he is an absolute, because just like how I couldn't get Fernando Alonzo out of my head for Mercedes, but if Max takes that Mercedes seat, Fernando Alonzo is going to be there. It'll be there no matter what. And then, you know, do you keep Perez or do you go for someone else completely? I think you'd probably keep Perez.

If that's the situation, and Perez wouldn't want to leave. Oh, Max is gone. Here we go. This could be world champion for Sergio Perez. So I think it would be Alonzo and Perez potentially. So, I mean, what am I saying out loud? Yeah. We're in Dululu land, but Blame A&U.S.

And other reputable sources for actually saying things that could genuinely happen. So let's know your thoughts, whether that's on YouTube in the comments or if it's somewhere else. We'd love to hear if you think this is possible or not. Sorry we've got so excited, but nothing's going on on track. So everything off track is where the intrigue actually lies at the moment. Tommy, what are your final thoughts? my final thoughts are just I really hope that there's good action on the track of it we don't have to rely completely on this but boy this is an exciting part of Formula One

and what I will say is God bless the 2025 silly season because it's all we've got we would be finished right now thank you everybody we'll see you very soon. Lots of love. Take care. Bye. Bye. Make sure you follow us on all of our socials. We're Matt P1-Tommi on Twitter, TikTok, Twitch and Instagram. You can also sign up to our Patreon at the link in the episode notes for ad-free episodes, full video interviews and extra bonus episodes for as little as $5 a month. Finally, make sure you're following us on Spotify. See you soon.

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