P1 with Matt and Tommy - Our reaction to Sauber dropping BOTH drivers!

Episode Date: November 6, 2024

For a while, we've been wondering who will partner Nico Hülkenberg at Sauber next year, Valtteri Bottas or Zhou Guanyu? Turns out, it's neither of them!Sauber have dropped both their drivers and F2 leader Gabriel Bortoleto will join the team next season. Is this the right move? What can we expect from Bortoleto? And what next for Zhou and Bottas? Let's dive in!Join us for our End of Season tour across the UK this December! Get your tickets here!Sign up to our Patreon here! You'll get access to bonus episodes, our classic race podcast series, every P1 episode ad-free, early access to live tickets and merch, and access to our Discord server where you can chat with other F1 fans!Follow us on socials! You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube and TikTok. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello everybody and welcome back to the P1 podcast, Emergency Podcast Edition. Didn't expect to be doing one today, but here we are talking about Formula One again. Because, well, we've kind of had this, well, we've called it the final F1 seat for quite some time. But then there's so much uncertainty around RB now that it's sort of not become the final seat again. But it feels like the final seat. Do you know what I mean, Tommy? Does that make sense? It does. Yeah, of course, it's weird because Lawson obviously got. the Danar Ricardo seat mid-season

but he isn't even confirmed at the team next year so it's still TBA alongside Yuki Sanoda but at the same time is Perez's seat safe but that's not what we're here to talk about for the 1,000 prime.

Thank God for that. Thank God for that. So for those of you that if you haven't seen Salba today have confirmed that Valtri Botas and Joe Guanyu are leaving the team and that Gabrielle Bortoletto will partner Nico Holcomberg for 2025.

So we've got to just go straight into it, first thoughts. What is going on in our head right now? And my first thoughts when I saw this was Botas! Because, you know, he's become such a likable character on the grid, I would say. Since Bottas left Mercedes, I think that he's been able to open up from a personality perspective. This is more of an entertainment side of things I'm looking at it. I also think Bottas, it's been very difficult to be.

measure just how well he's been doing. But I'm sad to see him go in the sense that, yeah, he was great entertainment. But also, I don't think he was driving particularly badly, but it's so difficult to measure because he's right at the back and Zhugeguanu's probably not the best driver on the grid. And then Zhuge Benu, of course, I don't think anybody is surprised by this particular bit of news unless Salber were on the brink of bankruptcy and Joe came in clutch with a one billion pound donation. That was the only way I saw him staying.

So I'm a little bit surprised. I thought Bottas might have stayed for next year. But hey, we've gone for another rookie. We have. And my first thoughts was good because I think this year has showed that it's the year of is out. Savage Tommy's out. Not like, oh, you know, sad to see Botas. No, good. Smealaya, Bottas. See you'll let's Joe. Peace. Well, well, you've done your Botas goodbye. I will say, I'll do my hello, Bortoletto. I think it's, I do agree. It's a shame BOTAS is going.

Joe hasn't delivered anywhere near enough to be able to keep his seat. Botas, I think it's contentious. And I will get into why with some questions, why I think it is the right move to. to put a new driver in in Bortoletto. I'm very pleased to see Bortoletto actually joining the grid. I think the fact that other Formula 2 drivers who have got seats, the fact that it's going to someone who's likely going to win the championship or very close as a rookie, he's won the Formula 3 championship, he's leading the Formula 2 championship.

We always have this argument of what more can you do. And I'm really glad that teams, this year have finally sort of come to the realization that, yes, young, hungry talent is the way to go. So I'm really excited to see what it does. Absolutely. I wouldn't say likely, you don't know. It's very close between Borteletto and Hajar. There's only four and a half points between the two at the top.

So with two races to go, anything can happen in Formula 2. And I think maybe even the top four would be arguing that they could maybe win the F2 championship. But he is leading the Formula 2 championship at the moment. So you'd have to say if there's anyone deserving of at least a glimpse of a Formula One, so it would be the one that's leading the series just before Formula One, even though it's not a promotion of relegation system. Question, P1 patron member Chiller. Was it the right choice for Salba to part ways with both Bottas and Joe?

It was definitely the right choice to part ways with Joe. I'm not really sure what happened. Joe went from a driver that I felt as though he did have a good race in him. I think even, you know, Bahrain was it his first ever race? He scored a point or something? Or he was up there in his first ever race and we all thought, oh, okay, here we go, Joe.

People were sort of slandering and forgetting a Formula One seat, I remember. Tommy, you were saying he's not a bus driver. He's actually pretty decent. And we're all thinking, okay, all right, here we go, let him cook. But then he's just been, He's been dreadful. I don't know if just the car doesn't suit him or whatnot, but he became a driver that would turn up occasionally

to a driver that would turn up once a season and it would be like an 11th place, like we've seen this season. So, yes, it was the right choice to get rid of Joe. Bottas, I don't know, I felt like on one hand, Bottas, with his experience alongside Holcomberg, could have been quite good to settle the ship a team that's coming into Formula One

as literally the worst team on the grid. And of course, without he taking over, there's a lot of change going on. So I saw that there was an argument potentially for Bottas and Holcombberg to go up against each other. Plus, I would have enjoyed seeing just how good Valtrey has actually been

and whether he would actually stack up to Nico as teammates. But I also think that it's very much a drip down effect of what we've seen across other teams. And I believe that Formula One teams have now got a little bit more confidence in bringing junior drivers into the fray now that we've seen the likes of,

you know, Behrman, Lawson, you know, Colapinto and so on, coming into the grid and just doing a great job straight away. So it's what we would maybe have deemed a few years ago as a risky, oh, you know, he's not got any experience,

and he's coming into Formula One, is now sort of seen as a, oh, that's a pretty safe bet. Look at everyone else. doing it. Yeah, Bortolete is almost in a weird way, got to thank the likes of Bairman, Lawson, Colapinto for doing the job and proving that these young drivers absolutely, you know, can do this. So I think Joe absolutely was the right choice to let him go. He's not delivered. In the same way that we've said with certain drivers in the past, Joe, as a young driver, has to be bot-up.

in the twilight of his career for him to make his way up the grid and show that he can prove himself. And as for Bottas, I think that the key thing here for me is they've already signed Nico Holkenberg, so they've got an experienced driver. And I think for me, putting Bottas alongside Holkenberg is just having two of the same driver and I don't really see the benefit of it.

And I think it's not really future-proofing your team going forward. I actually think that Bottas would have been a great shout to stay if they hadn't signed Holkenberg. But they have signed Holkenberg so that's why for me it makes sense to put a young driver alongside him and see how you've kind of got youth and experience together and it just makes sense to do that.

Next question. At LCL underscore Leo, do you consider it rude to send off two drivers who drove for the team for three years and welcome the new driver in just 30 minutes? I've looked at their sort of timeline of how they announced all of this stuff

and it doesn't really feel like an announcement as such like it's a Bortoletto has entered the group chat or has been added to the group chat as their first thing of like it's almost as if they're not allowed to fully announce him

until the end of the season or something because what there's not an exact piece of wording that they're using yeah maybe that's just Twitter and they're trying to to be quirky and I'm sure that they've done a maybe a more traditional press release,

surely saying that they are their driver line. Yeah, I mean, who reads press releases? You know, everyone's chronically online and you'd think that the first place you'd want to be putting your goodbyes. I feel like that wording is just them trying to be fun and probably missing them at. Let's have a look then. So what have they, after open and constructive discussions with Valtry, Bottas and Shogu, we mutually concluded the conditions to continue together,

could not be met, so we agreed that it is time to part ways. We would like to thank them both the contribution they have made to the team in the last three years. They've been the embodiment of professionalism using their experience in the use them to support our growth. It's like two birds of one stone. There we go. But also, yeah, it's so weird that they're like, the announcement is like a fun, playful

banter one. And then the firing is the most press-releasey, wordy, kind of overwritten statement you could possibly have. Um, is it rude? We've seen it a lot. I think we saw, you do see teams announcing there. They like to announce the driver leaving before, because I think that's a fair way to do it. Um, it could be worse.

We've seen in the past drivers being announced before, uh, they've even heard from their replacement. So from that side, it is respectful that the botas is, uh, Anjo are going to to basically get to do their final races, potentially could be their final races in Formula One. I think very likely going to be both their final races in Formula One for the rest of the year. And we'll know that moment when they're saying goodbye in Abu Dhabi, this is probably going to be their final race.

So they get that. So I think from that side it's good. I think just the announcement in general is very weird timing to, it was 15 minutes after they'd done this press release going, you want to know who it is then, which is odd. Then you've got the other side of it that's why are they announcing it at 5am in Brazil? That makes absolutely no sense. And also a day where there's a small bit of news in the world, political world going on as well,

which slightly might overshadow this announcement. So what a really odd time to do it. Yeah, very strange. Yeah, look, I feel as though, especially with Bottas, right? Like, he's a, how many races is he done? 243 starts. And my guy has been included in a Zhoguanu mutual discussion tweet as like, that's it, cool. I don't think it's that hard to just do like a post for each driver to be like,

thank you so much for all of your hard work. Here's some, I don't know, maybe not stats, because probably not a lot to actually shout about. But I don't know. I don't know. I just felt like maybe. Yeah, you say that, but I think it would be different if Bortoletto was jumping in immediately in the next race. But there's no doubt that Stake are going to, in three races, they're going to do a montage there. They'll have, you know, thank you, Valtieri. P20, P20, P20, P20.

But just Valtre's career in general, I'm sure they'll show some highlights. They'll be in the garage with a pit board saying thank you, all that kind of stuff. I think that that's the key thing here that they still got to do that. we can't take this as the same as what happened with, with, you know, Ricardo or whatever, however you think that may have gone and there's rumors that,

you know, you maybe did know and all this kind of stuff. But like, he was going literally in the next race, whereas these drivers, yes, they're, they're being told they're departed,

but we're literally going to see him in two weeks driving in Formula One. It's not, it's not that, I don't think it's as cutthroat, just because they've done a press release about them leaving, because they're still going to be there and they'll have their goodbye,

and stuff. Absolutely. If they don't get their goodbye, then we'll have another chat. Annelese Cameron, why did they not announce the Brazilian driver in Brazil? Now, that would

have made a lot more sense personally. Why would they not? Huh? Surely they wanted to. Must be contracts, you think? But then what's the difference between, unless they hadn't

finalized the contract? up until that point, who knows. But you would think that they would have done that, yeah, not post-Brazil when they've left, because you just know how the Brazilian fans would have reacted. And I'm sure Bortoletto himself would have loved to have been announced whilst, yeah, Formula One was in Brazil. But I don't think it's the end of the world.

And there's so many things going on in the background that I'm sure, yeah, they're like, damn, why did we have to announce it now? But, hey, it happens. And I'm sure Brazil will take it. It doesn't matter if it's announced at 2 a.m. on a Thursday morning that Brazil have a Formula One driver. They're going to be absolutely buzzing. I mean, they were literally chanting Drogovich's name as Stroll was driving into the gravel trap. So for me, Brazil is one of the countries I first think of when I think of Formula One. That is a name so synonymous with it. And I didn't even grow up watching in the kind of Senate areas just after that.

but like a Brazilian driver in Formula One just feels right because they are a country that have represented, you know, Formula One so massively with their drivers. And you can see how passionate they are based on just generally like internet comments and everything you see on every single post about, um, about Brazilian drivers or, or even Bortoletto when he was rumoured to be,

to be getting that seat. So I, I do think it was a contract. just because they hadn't quite finalised the contract. And I do wonder how much of that is because of the next question. Segway. Oh, beautiful segue. Well, actually, before we dive into that, I guess maybe the problem was releasing Bortoletto from McLaren

because that's something that we didn't actually really speak about was, well, we did speak about it when we were basically predicting who would get the final seat, which we thought was at Salba. and we both kind of wrote him off as, no chance. McLaren aren't going to get rid of a potential Formula 2 champion in their wings. But then, yeah, McLaren have let him go because they've got two very strong drivers in Lando and Oscar

that I can't see boiling over at all in the next couple of years. And they've, yeah, they've released Bortoletto to go and drive for Salber. I guess McLaren have quite a confidence that, yeah, you've got, can go drive for Salba, no problem. If you're really good, we'll have you back. But there's no problem there. So I guess for McLaren, it's good in a sense that they can see how good Bortoletto is, not actually have to do it themselves.

And then they've got a great relationship with him anyway. So it's not like the end of the road when it comes to a McLaren journey for Bortoletto. Yeah, very true. Yeah, that's the reason we dismissed him so much was because you think that he's locked in a team at McLaren. that might be a difficult thing to get out of. And again, like, one of the main reasons that I thought that they wouldn't go for him is that you had the likes of Colapinto driving and doing very well, that if they were going to essentially get someone out of their contract with another team,

it would be Colapinto. And I know a lot of the reaction online has been the fact that, like, why not Colapinto, basically. Well, oh, segue, beautiful. P1, Patreon member, Dame. Why, Gabrielle, over other proven drivers like the likes of Colapinto? It's surprising, isn't it, to see that of all the drivers, as you say, Tommy, to be removed from their contract or their ties with another team. Bortoletto's been the one to go. Now, I do wonder whether Colapinto has other things going on, other discussions,

because that's what's been floating around the paddock as a rumor of R.B. Red Bull and whatever. So I do wonder whether he's in extended deep discussions with those. So he's like, Salba, I would have taken that about a week ago, but now I'm in the midst for something different and new and better. So I'm not giving up on Colopinto, potentially being on the grid next year. But, look, Franco's done an amazing job. But I also feel as though it's not as if Colopinto is the standout rookie that's done great.

since coming into Formula One over the last year. We've seen plenty of Lawson and Berman in particular that have come in and done a fantastic job. So, yeah, maybe Gabrielle was just easier to sign up to the dustbin, sadly, of the back of the grid. And yeah, I'm not completely convinced that Colopinto won't be on the grid next year. And it's crazy because it swings and roundabouts, isn't it?

Because last year, last week, you're like, ah, probably not. Oh, no, maybe. Yeah, then it was, oh, actually, no, we'll still be Bottas. And then there's rumors that like, Magnuson is the main driver. And it's happened with every single team this year. For me, maybe this is hoping and being optimistic. But I think that the dots are lining up, that they've announced this after Brazil. and after all the rumours of Colapinto

and where he might go next that he might have got something sorted I know there's a lot of some quite insane there's kind of more believable rumours in the fact that Red Bull are going to sign Colapinto

they've seen his potential they know you know we made this joke in the Singapore podcast about Colapinto and how he'd be a great fit for Red Bull because of everything they've said about Sergio Perez with that fan base and he's adored there,

you've got Colopinto who's a young driver with equally a massive fan base. But I think there's a lot of rumours that he could go to R.B., of course, there's a seat free there, likely go to Lawson if they're not going to get rid of Perez, but I think that is going to happen now. and that would obviously allow.

Perez said, what are you talking about? He's not leaving. I'm there next year. Yeah, true. But I can see that happening and there being a free seat for Colopinto. That's the more realistic one. There are also some more extreme rumours that Williams and, well, James Vals and Christian Horner are trying to reach an agreement where Colapinto can stay at Williams

and Carlos Sites go to Red Bull now, which is quite a mad one, which I don't. I don't see that, like, because surely that would have... They could have signed him in the first place, right? What's changed, exactly? They had the opportunity to sign him, which is why I think it's so unbelievable. You know what, Carlos, you're pretty good, mate. You just, you won, you won Mexico. We forgot.

We forgot how good you are. Yeah, we forgot about it. Very, very odd, but I wouldn't put it past Colapinto being on the grid next year, and I hope he is, because he's done a very good job, and that would be, if he is, that would. be a quarter of the grid essentially as these like young new drivers coming in which would be quite the turnaround from how it's been before where teams seemed scared and just wanted to keep signing the same drivers all the time you do wonder as well how much red ball sort of value a driver

that is absolutely worshipped in their country like you know you've got Perez in mexico and they've seen the support for colipinto uh in argentina and gone yeah we want a bit of that we We said it. We literally made this joke in one of our podcasts. It was like, so they're keeping Perez for all this, like, from what the rumors are for like a lot of these other outside reasons as well. And we, I can even find the clip. It's like, why not Colapinto? And we kind of laughed about it. But you do wonder, as he's improved and you've seen even more kind of extreme support for him as well as how well he's been driving, they probably, were like, yeah, this sounds good. We've got new parents. Because they've done it before, right? Yeah, exactly.

So I could 100% see Colopinto in that Red Bull family next year. Definitely see it. Next question, Leimos 9. Why would they not put poor chair in the seat instead? Look, we kind of discussed this, didn't we? When we first were predicting who's going to be in that seat, and it just felt as though poor chair had missed the boat. and it did seem as well from what I remember that

I think even he, did he come out and say that he hasn't got sponsors and things like that to kind of basically support his Formula One venture. But either way, yeah, it just feels very much like peaked at the wrong time, no space at the inn, new drivers coming through with massive sponsors behind them, poor chair just sat there like, oh, I would have liked to be an F1,

but no one's going to pick me now. I think when we did our who's going to get the salba seat, I kind of said that the reason that I didn't see Bortoletto going in, and this just shows that it's not always about, it not always goes the way you think, that if you put yourself in Porcée's shoes, you've won the Formula 2 title, and they're hiring someone that may well win the Formula 2 title,

but you are their young driver. He's the one that signed up and had to sit on the pit wall for a year with this team and now they're signing the person that's going to probably do exactly the same he did last year. But I think you made an excellent point that I didn't really think of at the time but I see it even more now

is that you've got Alpine parading Jack Dewan around the paddock and getting to do media and all this kind of stuff same with Toto with his arm around Antonelli in the garage all the time and all this kind of stuff. You never see Teo Pochere doing anything with steak or salper. So it's a very odd situation and that's obviously why they've got, they've looked kind of outside their driver program.

Poor old Teo, but yeah, I did actually just have a look and he did say that he has no money to put on the table basically because there's no big sponsors following him. So it's, yeah, it's tough for Teo. but that is sadly how Formula One revolves is money. Next and final question from P1 Patreon member, Kian LR. Will the Salba be good enough to show Gabby's talent? Will it be a George Russell Williams P-19 story? Well, look, next year the Salber will not be good enough.

Let's just put this out there right now. We are fully expecting Holkenberg to be celebrating P-17s and Bortoletto, just to learn, just to learn on the job. And it's probably the perfect situation for a rookie to come in. Just have a bit of fun for a year. Absolutely no expectations. You're probably not going to score a point. If you do, you are literally incredible.

And it's a no pressure environment. So for Bortoletto, it's fantastic to just learn everything about not just the car, but the tyres and et cetera, et cetera. So it's, I don't see it being a George Russell P19, well, sorry, a George Russell where, you know, he could sometimes outperform the car incredibly. but also you would expect for, if Borselaetto is as good as people think he is, to have moments of brilliance,

to get a P-11 or a P-10 in a crazy Brazil where you had Joe finishing last, despite all of the crashes and all of the chaos. So there'll be those moments where you'll be looking to the backmarker teams to go, oh, did you perform in that one? That's pretty much the task for Bortoletto next year, in my opinion. It's funny that the example here is, will it be a George Russell Williams story like that's a bad thing because yes

George Russell was driving a car at the back of the grid and had a Robert Kubitsa that was nowhere near what he used to be and obviously was carrying his injuries and then Latifie is his teammate and he still managed to prove himself enough to get a top seat at Mercedes so it shows that even in a car at the back of the grid if Bortoletto does beat Holkenberg, I think it's a massive statement and teams will take note because it's, you know,

even Fernando Alonzo managed to show what he could do in a, in a Menardi. And if Bortoletto does beat Holcomberg, which I don't think is an outrageous thing to happen, it's not going to be impossible. I think it would surprise a lot of people, but we've seen it with all the other

the other rookies doing this. kind of thing. Teams will stand up and take note that are like, well, look, this guys won the Formula 3 title. We'll see what happens in Formula 2, but maybe wins or been on top of the Formula 2 title. You know, had that brilliant win at Monza, didn't he where he won from literally the back to the front,

did the last to first challenge and won in a spec series. And then say he does beat Holkenberg, people would be like, well, this guy's, you can see his talent there and Formula One teams aren't kind of casual

observers they know who's good they know look at Charleclair what he did in Asauber you don't have to jump straight you don't have to be Lewis Hamilton Sharla was taking headlines brain

like he was scoring points you know he was up there no that's what I mean like he showed he proved himself in Asauber which was not very good It was a better car than the Saabras now, but you can show what you can do in a car,

and the Formula One teams know. We've seen it with Alonzo, seen it with Leclair, we've seen it with so many other drivers. There is an opportunity. You can't just say a team's not going to look and go, you know, I mean, even we joke that the World Championship Bottas is currently sat dead last.

He's done better than Joe this year. Points don't all, on positions, don't always tell the full, picture of Formula One. So he's got every chance to prove what he can do. He does. And this is why any time, you know, we discuss like, oh, does he really want a seat at Salba? Does he really want to drive a dustbin?

Yes, you always want to be on the grid. It doesn't matter where you are. You can prove your talent, especially as a young driver. That is the only thing you need is to be on the grid to showcase that. Even if you're fighting for 19th and 20th, the teams talk. The teams share data. The teams know exactly what's going on and how good a driver is, even if they're two laps down in a wheelie bin.

So yeah, this is a very good thing for Bortoleto to be able to show what he can do. And that is it. We are done. We have reacted to Salba dropping both drivers. Absolutely heartbreaking stuff for Bottas and Joe fans out there. Tommy, how do you summarize your final thoughts? I'm just going to soak it all up and enjoy those last three driver ratings for Joe Guan Yu

while he's still on the grid. Yeah. Yeah, I think everyone's going to really. appreciate that one. And that is it. Thank you, everybody. We'll see you very soon for another podcast and video and make sure to subscribe if you're new. And yeah, we will see you very soon. Lots of love, take care. Bye. Bye. So, now what, huh? Show. Really? You're really going to do that? You're really going to a dad joke me like that at the end of the podcast. Everyone, look, you need to change your bed sheets. Okay, everybody,

Come on. Come on. You know you're putting it off as well. You know you're putting it off. Just get them done. All right. They're basically crawling off. Okay. So get them done.

And yeah. Look, you just got to, you just got a, you just got to, why do I forget every, like, basic human thing that people do? This is your final thoughts. I'm like, how do I forget things? You do. Goodbye. Bye, everyone. Goodbye.

Enjoy that coffee. Oh, I just finished a coffee, actually. That's crazy. Wow, how do you know? That's wild. It's almost like I can see you. P1 is a stack production and part of the Acast's creative network.