P1 with Matt and Tommy - Our reaction to Sergio Perez losing his Red Bull seat

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

Well, seemingly the worst kept secret in F1 is out: Sergio Perez will not race for Red Bull next season.Why did it take so long to make the decision? What next for Checo? And who's going to replace him? Join us for our reaction! Sign up to our Patreon here! You'll get access to bonus episodes, our classic race podcast series, every P1 episode ad-free, early access to live tickets and merch, and access to our Discord server where you can chat with other F1 fans!Follow us on socials! You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube and TikTok. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello everybody and welcome back to the B1 podcast with Matt and Tommy. We are currently backstage just before our Manchester live show to essentially react to the groundbreaking news that is Sergio Perez leaving Red Bull, maybe leaving F1. We don't know. Lots to dive into Tommy. We've spoken about him a lot over this year and this season, I think quite rightly because of his performances, but it's finally been announced because there was still a little bit of is it going to happen or is he somehow going to dig his heels in?

Well, we did literally a podcast four or five months ago. Now you can see it back saying Perez is staying till the end of the year. And of course, he did that now infamous tweet of I'm not leaving from the Wolf of Wall Street. But yeah, it has come to an end. We've been waiting for that news, haven't we, for a long time now. We've been doing our shows for the last week, essentially, and feeling like it's going to happen any moment. And now officially, we know that he will not be the day.

there with Red Bull. Exactly. They've agreed to part ways. We've had no news about who will be replacing him as of right now, as of recording. I'm sure whilst we're recording, we'll get news or we'll miss something. But I guess the first thing is we have to dive into our initial thoughts. As I kind of joked about in the start, it's not surprising that he's left Red Bull now. I think for the team, it's the right decision. But it's now what does the team do from here that in my opinion shows whether they've learned from the last three drivers that have gone up against Max Verstappen and whether they've sort of decided to find a trend in why they've all essentially failed against Max Verstappen. Of course, Gazley's picked himself up. So is Albon.

Whether Peros will continue in F1, we don't know. But from the Red Bull side, this next choice is very important, especially with the car seemingly falling away from being the fastest. It is absolutely. I mean, you know, it's a shame that if this is the end of Perez's career, it's ended in this way that, you know, we said with Daniel Ricardo as well, you know, it seems could even be a quite a similar situation where neither of them wanted to essentially say they're being announced because there was all these rumours with Perez that they were very much allowing him to say that he was going to leave and then there's been kind of a bit of contract disputes. And at the end of the day, this needed to happen. His performance. were nowhere near good enough to say the least. And they absolutely had to get rid of him. His performance weren't good enough. Would have been nice for him maybe, like,

we'll never know the full reasons why that he could have maybe just announced this before the final race of the season. So we could have, you know, had a good buy and have been a bit more of a kind of celebration or a thank you instead of just this random news dropping. But yeah, it's definitely the right decision to get rid of him because, yeah, it's been a truly awful season for him.

Yeah, I think it shows that Perez didn't want to leave initially, because, as you say, I think it would have been a nice thing to say, right, Perez is leaving at the end of the year and you can have a moment. And especially if this is Perez's last season, if I was a fan of Perez and someone that, you know, I'd adored and wanted, I'd want to know if that was his last race, similar to what I said with Daniel Ricardo as well. So, but that's, that's from the driver's perspective

and them clearly not wanting to give up until the very last moment. but in my opinion absolutely the right decision for Red Bull to move on from Perez I think even maybe a season too late to be honest with you but here we are so let's get into the first question from Matt Brown underscore 10 simply what went wrong well only Perez will probably fully know that and hopefully he writes a book or something that'll be quite fun to get an idea of exactly what it is like to be the Red Bull number two driver it could be like a really sort of dramatic book title or something like the the poison chalice or something like that because that's what it's felt like for so many years now, as I mentioned with Gassley and of course Albon as well. It's not like we've seen since Ricardo, a driver thrive in anyway in that second red bull seat. But it's clear the sort of opinion that I have and something that you see floating around amongst a thousand other opinions and theories is that I just believe Max Vastappen is able to extract something out of a car that is very unique, that is Adrian Nui built, and he can drive it

in a way that other drivers can't. And I think it's as simple as that. I don't think Perez is a bad driver. He's shown that before joining Red Bull. He was so hyped before he joined the team. But now everyone's like, he's finished. He's the worst driver ever. No, he's not. No, he's not. any podcast from four years ago, I think it was actually four years ago today he was announced. And you'll be listening to everyone on a podcast, including us at the time, going, Alex Albin needs to go. What on earth is he doing? Perez, there's no way he should be leaving Formula One. You know, he just won that unbelievable race in Sakeir after he was basically last and won the race for racing point.

And he was the man of the moment. And we were saying he absolutely needs to get into that team. And of course, at the time, they'd had Gassley and Alban, hadn't they? And Perez going in was a kind of, right, we've tried the youth of the Red Bull Junior Academy, as a fly is joining us for the podcast. Massifl I wants to join the podcast. As, yeah, and the kind of the youth of the academy, this is now our turn to get some experience in. And if anything, it's been even worse. You know, you started off all right.

I think there's definitely a debate of, was it just because the Red Bull was so much better. Yes. And it's favoured him. Yeah, definitely. But then also I guess he was better. Yeah, he has got worse and worse and worse. It has got a lot worse. He was never this bad in 2021, for example, or 2022.

Yeah, you take like a 20-second deficit to Max Verstappen, and that was like a kind of standard Grand Prix, whereas now it's been worse than that. Yeah. It's funny you say about that whole situation because I know there's been this talk and I think Alex Albin famously said it on a podcast that, you know, they don't favor Max. It's just difficult cars to drive, all this kind of stuff. I don't think you can deny now having three teams. I don't think it is literally a case of like, you know, people love to jump on like, oh, they're sabotaging. Like, there's no way they would do that. I think it is literally similar

to what you say that they are a one driver team. Helmut Marco has said it himself. It's all about Max. And we'll get into later who potentially could replace Perez. Do they, care that much. It's Max's team and it will always be about Max for Staff and winning the world championship. So the second driver is just someone that needs to do a decent job. Now Perez has not done even that, which is why it's being dropped. But they will always defend, like they will always build that car around Max. If there's updates, if, you know, we saw at the start of 2023, Perez was there and could get the odd, you know, victory. But as soon as they upgraded the car, it elevated Max to the point where he was unbeatable,

but potentially in doing that, it's made Peras drop down the order. So, you know, this is a team that will just focus solely on Max and whoever comes in and that team has to know that that is going to be the case. Absolutely. Let's go to the next question from P1, Patreon member Ritus. So is this the end for Checo in F1? I am not convinced.

I think that he brings a lot to the sport. he's got such a passionate, loyal fan base. He has quite very lucrative sponsors, which is perhaps why he's kept the seat up until this point. So I feel like he would be a target for the likes of Cadillac or that kind of team that is looking for experience. And I don't think Perez has done. You know, he'd put that funny meme out, didn't he about,

I'm not effing leaving. And it was from the Wolf of Wall Street. But yeah, I think that he will potentially get signed. As much as we've seen, you know, on the other side of the scale, we've seen a lot of young talent do very, very well. Perhaps there will be a mixture that Cadillac will look for and experienced one and a younger one. Who knows? It's up to them. But I think Checo would, as much as, you know, the general public and people on social media think that he's the worst driver to ever exist, I don't think that would be the case if he was to go to a completely new team. I think he would be, I think he would be surprised by how revitalized he would be as well. because as much as he wanted to dig his heels in and I'm sat there going,

are you even enjoying yourself anymore? Or have you just kind of got used to the fact that it's a struggle every weekend? I think that it would be amazing for him to go somewhere else. And I would also be fascinated to see if we see exactly the same trajectory as what we saw with Albon and with Ghazley more so, I would say. Yeah, Ghazley literally got demoted and then won a race for them and was, and then look how he's ended the season now. in Alban last year was one of the top drives of the season and everyone kind of singing his praises.

So whether Perez would do the same, we don't know. But I personally think it would be a massive shame if this was the way for him to end his career. Like you say, he's got a massive fan base around the world. He is, to say he's a hero in Mexico's an understatement. You know, we went to Circuit of the Americas recently and you can see like his fans just like absolutely going crazy even though he's there like in 11th. well Max is winning the race. They're just like cheering him every single moment. And for me, I think that the saddest thing is

and why it's a shame that we've not had that kind of goodbye, if it is going to be goodbye or whatever. I think the narrative would be very different behind it because if we'd have had Abu Dhabi and he said like, right, I'm going, I think we would reflect more on, you know, the moment that he helped Max win the championship in 2021 with, you know, the Czechos, legend, him defensive. ending against Hamilton, the wins that he had, you know, what he did at racing point.

But instead, like you say, he's almost been like laughed out the sport, which I think is a big shame because if you think he had, he's not going to regret his time at Red Bull because he's won more races and stuff. But you just think like how different that has changed from when he was seemingly off the grid because Sebastian Vettel was joining Aston Martin and there was this talk of like, how can you get rid of Perez? he's doing so well and he was going to end

that career on that massive high not being able to get a seat but ending that career on that huge high victory and now he might be ending his career on such a sad note yeah it would be a shame but and equally I guess

on the if you're going to play devil's advocate you also think that drivers have lost their seats and careers for much less in terms of performances so we'll see we'll see what the teams decide that have free slots next question Vabe have plus asks the only question that matters now, who is getting the second red bull seat?

Well, most heavily rumoured is of course Liam Lawson, but no announcement, as we say, has been made, which I don't think is a, oh, a red ball change in their mind. I think it's more a case of letting the Perez news sit, let him have his moment, Red Bull doing it out of respect, because I think that's clearly something that they've wanted to do is allow Perez to do whatever he needs to do, to kind of almost just do it as nicely as possible. So I reckon we get the news in the next few days, potentially, and I think it will be Liam Lawson. Whether that's the right decision,

we will find out next year, but it does feel very much like it would be another case of what we've seen with the Red Bull number two driver, in my opinion. At least Yuki Sanoda's had more time to embed himself in the team. I know he said after the Red Bull test that, you know, it wasn't that hard to get around it. Yeah, you know,

all that sort of stuff. But the sensible option is Yuki Sanoda. The more questionable one is Liam Lawson. Because Lawson has done some brilliant moments and you think, okay, wow, he's got some potential. But he hasn't done it week in, week out every single time to think, yes, 100% him. And also he's shown his fiery personality there as well.

And you do wonder, do they really want both of those himself and Max Verstappen together in a team? Like on paper, that looks a little bit of a dangerous pick. but it depends if Lawson is anywhere near Verstappan's pace. It does. I think, you know, Yuki Sanoda, we've mentioned many times that I feel like he definitely deserves a chance at Red Bull, but it seems it very much is looking like that's not going to happen and they're going to go for Lawson.

I do think that, and I want to make sure that this comes across the right way, is that I think in my opinion they should go for Yuki, but just saying that I think you he should go doesn't mean I absolutely think Lawson shouldn't. You know, he has done a decent job. We saw what he could do last year. I don't think he's been spectacular enough for them to go over Yuki Sanoda, but I don't think that means that like Lawson, you know, doesn't deserve it at all, and it's an absolutely terrible pick, and he's been terrible because he hasn't. I just think Yuki Sanoda deserves it more with what he's done, and he's kind of got more experience under his belt as well. So I'd love to see Yuki go there, but it very much looks like it's

going to be Lawson, but at the start of the, you know, at start this podcast, we said, like, it doesn't really matter who they go for because they don't need someone that's going to beat Max. They just need someone to pick up a lot more than Perez did, basically. You know, genuinely, if you think Perez in 23, you still had a very bad season at the end of the year, sorry, but that was enough because he finished second in the championship, won than the constructors, of course, the car was a lot better then. But yeah, it just needs to be someone more consistent. Genuinely, if Max is winning races or finishing second and third, you could kind of get away with being fifth, six every race. You just can't have that pairs where he's crashing,

spinning behind the safety car. His best finish is like a 10th place or something. Just better than that. And I think he'll be fine in that is probably what Rebel wants because they don't need to put necessarily the best driver alongside Max in because that's not, It was never going to happen. I still can't believe Carlos Sines isn't the driver that Rebel have gone for. I know they've tried to go more towards this development program and this kind of stuff, but then you also question where Yuki Snowd has been in the development program for a lot longer than Lawson has and why has he not got the promotion.

But, you know, Carlos Sines just feels and felt like the perfect replacement if they are looking for a constructors fight as well as drivers as well. Final question from P1Pitch, member, BG, Sean. How do you rate the Red Bull Driver Academy now compared to the other teams, going forward. I mean, the Red Bull Driver Academy is an absolute mess at the moment, in my opinion. It's quite clear that there's a power struggle between Helmut Marco and Christian Horner. Christian Horner wanted Sergio Perez to come in and that kind of broke the norm of the young

drivers coming in, if you like. You know, that Red Bull Driver Academy, they were in an unbelievable, they almost had too many good drivers that they needed to promote despite having, you know, the luxury of having two teams, that no other you know other kind of company or driver academy has that luxury of having essentially four seats in Formula One

and you go back to it being you know Sebastian Vettl Fiat, Buemi, DeCosta, Vern all Dina Riccardo, all these drivers and there literally wasn't even enough room for them and then now we're kind of in a complete mess where they're put in someone

very experienced but it's not worked then as you say with with Liam Lawson are they putting someone in far too early that we're going to have exactly the same situation where it's exactly the same as as Ghazley and Dalban so yeah it's a mess is this now the kind of moment where they try to steady the ship and get back on track and now helmet's a bit more in charge and it's going to be that if you do well at V-Cab or racing bulls it's going to be next year.

You work your way up and then they see how Jard does and then maybe he's the next one in charge. But it's a very dangerous game when Max Verstappen is kind of the beal and endal of that academy and we know there's been a bit of politics going on at the start of the season for that. And if he goes, everything's going to crumble. You know, they've lost Ricardo as well. Like it is quite the mess and you can see that they're now kind of scrambling going, oh, who do we put in? Because it's not a sure thing.

you can't say that Lawson is good enough to deserve a place in, you know, against the driver on the World Championship. Not yet. Not yet. Anyway. Yeah, it is interesting because, of course, as you mentioned, the Red Bull Driver Academy did have a massive roster. And then it went to, you know, going outside of it because they didn't have enough talent.

And it almost feels as though they're going full circle now where they are almost trying to safeguard max for staff and leaving the team and then nurturing some talent with. their sort of roster. But I just, I can't, I just don't feel as though, because there's so many driver moves and what we've seen is, I don't feel like it's just purely on driver academies anymore, as much as Red Bull might try and lean towards that again. It really depends on how good Lawson will be if he is in that Red Bull second seat.

But okay, that's it. We are done. We've rabbited on far too long. We've got a live show to go and do. So thank you, everybody. Tommy, what are your final thoughts? Final thoughts. Big shout out to the fly that joined us for this whole podcast.

to, this fly just attacked me mid-podcast. It was really great. So yeah, big shout out. I can literally see it flying towards us again. So we're going to end the podcast there. See you very soon. Thank you as well if you've come to any of the P1 live shows. Final one tonight in Manchester and yeah, take a guess. See you later. Bye.

Bye. P1 is a stack production and part of the ACAST creator network.