P1 with Matt and Tommy - Talking Drive to Survive, with Co-Exec Producer Tom Rogers

Episode Date: March 11, 2025

Have you ever wondered what it takes to produce the biggest sports documentary series in the world? Today we're joined by Tom Rogers, Co-Executive Producer of Drive to Survive, for a chat about what goes into making the iconic series. From how far in advance they plan storylines, to their relationship with the teams and how difficult it is to capture all the footage, Tom gives us some fascinating insight! You can listen to an extended version of every 2025 Race Review podcast over on our Patreon! You'll also get every P1 episode ad-free, early access to live tickets and merch, and access to our Discord server where you can chat with us and other F1 fans! Click here to sign up now!Follow us on socials! You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube and TikTok. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello everybody and welcome back to the P1 podcast with Matt and Tommy. But then we've also got another guest, which kind of fits beautifully into this today, because we're asking a Drive to Survive co-exemptive, co-executive producer, all the questions that you want answering. And their name is Tom as well. So it's P1 with Matt, Tom and Tom. Tom Rogers. How are you, my friend?

You good? Yeah, good, thanks. Good to be here. I'm looking forward to this. I'm a fan of the podcast. So it's nice to be on it. Ah, fantastic stuff. Of course, Tommy's here as well.

Okay, so of course, Drive to 5, Season 7 is out now. We've watched it. We've dive deep into it. I guess the first thing to ask you, Tom, is that you probably weren't short of content for this year. Yeah, I think season seven was the opposite problem to season six. You know, season six, we came off this season of racing where Red Bull had won all but one race.

and the commission's the same every year, 10 Epps and we have to admit, I think season six was a bit of a challenge and yeah, season seven, completely the opposite end of the spectrum. In many respects, too much happened. And stuff, you know, went to the end of the season as well, you know, the championship not being decided until the final race, you know, this is great for race fans, but a real challenge for Drive to survive when we've got to get this thing

edited, delivered, posted, you know, translated into how many languages for Netflix and then up on service before we go racing again. So yeah, it was a busy year. I bet, yeah. Do you have a favourite episode or moment from the new season that really stands out to you? I was really like it when we kind of break the fourth wall and when people reference the show. There's a little moment in when Toto's in interview and he's talking about Lewis leaving and he starts kind of messing with his eye

and then he says, I bet you're going to put this in and pretend that I was crying. I always really like those moments because they kind of poke fun at the show which we can't take it too seriously. It's supposed to be a fun show about an amazing sport.

And I think if you take it, if you take everything too seriously then it can be pretty depressing. So those moments I always really like, you know, where people kind of reference the show and kind of pull up the thread of how it's put together. Yeah, so it's funny as well because you have those moments which are great. But also I feel as though every intro to drive a team principal, it's never the actual clean take, is it? It's always the one where they're asking, oh, is there something on my face? Which is brilliant as well because I don't think anyone wants to just a bog standard intro to anyone, do they?

Yeah, you'd think after seven years they'd have clocked that, you know, as soon as they walk through the door, the cameras are on. But again, I think people like to see that because Formula One historically has always been such a sort of media-controlled environment. You know, everything's been sort of really thought out, pre-planned, you know, very kind of well put together and polished. And I think having a little element of that rough around the edges, you know, you can see the sort of the real candor when people, people have their guard down and they're just chatting. I think that's what really, you know, makes the show appealing, you know, hopefully to fans and sort of non-fans of the sport alike. So do you think the latest season is the best yet?

I think it's a very strong season. I think we're really proud of it. I always look at the season three, episode nine, Man on Fire, Romang Grojean episode. You know, that episode was what won that series, the Emmy. And I think that's a pretty high yardstick. I definitely think season seven is sort of up there. You know, and I'm really proud of how we've told some of these big, massive, sweeping stories in different ways. You know, the Lewis story, for example.

Everybody knew about Lewis and his announcement to move to Ferrari. at the start of, you know, 2025. And I think it could have been quite easy to just sort of tell that in quite a conventional way, but I think how we've approached it is to tell it from the different POVs because that decision from Lewis through all of the cards in the air for the driver market,

and there wasn't a team, probably McLaren is the only team that wasn't really affected by it because they were the only team that had two drivers in contract sort of done. They were chilling. Everyone else was kind of in this, weird kind of tailspin and I think seeing it from Carlos's point of view seeing it from toto's point of view obviously we kind of look at George becoming a number one Kimmy Antonelli

you know as a new character and then some drivers that lost their seats because of the craziness of the driver market you know Valtory and KMAG you know there's some of those drivers that aren't in a sport this year so yeah I think you know I'm very proud of it I'm always I'm was pretty proud of it when we release it. And then you kind of let it go out and hope that people like it. It's a nerve-wracking moment. Yeah, you mentioned obviously the big news of Lewis to Ferrari. How annoying was it for you guys that that story broke right at the beginning of 2024?

You also had Gunther, like one of the main stars of the show getting fired. And presumably that all was kicking off right as you'd kind of wrapped up filming on most of the stories the season and almost kind of ready to press play or whatever and send it out there. Was that kind of disastrous timing for you? It's a funny one because because, you know, we make this show every year. There isn't really a cutoff where it's too late to be in Drive to Survive. There's just a cut off where obviously you have to commit to a season and go, right, we're finished because otherwise this thing is never getting finished.

So with the Gunter News, we found out about the Gunter News before. it was sort of publicly announced. And so we were able to very quickly pivot to put a little thing on the end of season six. You know, there's a little nod to the fact that, you know, Gunther had lost his role. We couldn't do much more than that just because time, you know, time was against us.

I think the Lewis story, actually it just meant that we knew season seven was going to be great. You know, it's kind of, if you've got a kind of a grenade goes stuff like that before the seasons even started, you know there's going to be content coming that year. And so, yeah, you know, obviously, would we have liked to have been filming at the time? Would we have liked to have been slightly more on the inside with Lewis, maybe?

But I think actually what it's done is it kind of queued up an amazing season seven. Yeah, I guess you went, oh, thank God, season six, not going to be another one of those. Yeah, exactly. No matter what happens, there's going to be something to talk about other than Red Bull winning all the time. So yeah, it's good. That's the beauty of the show and the sport as well as you never know. You never know what's going to come. Like we're, you know, we're all really excited for next weekend because actually nobody

really knows. And that's the beauty of sport. Yeah, we love it. We absolutely love it. It means me and Tommy don't really get a rest either. But it's good. We absolutely live and breathe the sport. Next question comes in from P1, Patreon member, Scones, Text, Mrida.

How far ahead? head, do you decide what storylines to develop and how much wiggle room is there for when things don't follow the narrative you hope to include? Yes, it's a good question because you obviously go into a season with a plan. At the moment, we've got, you know, there's 10 episodes to every season, so you have to have a rough idea of, okay, these are the storylines we think are going to pay off. and obviously Lewis at Ferrari, we knew that that was going to be a story.

Hasse, after Gunter, we knew was going to be a story. But there's so many unknown curveballs that come up during the year that if you just sort of decided what the stories were going to be and didn't pivot, you would miss 90% of what actually happens. Nobody foresaw Flavio Briatore this year. you know, we've, we had to pivot to it to include that. You know, nobody really thought probably outside of the team themselves that McLaren, you know, and Ferrari would be as resurgent as they were last year.

You know, I think we were all slightly braced for another Red Bull kind of walkover. And I think, you know, I think we sort of, we had to kind of pivot to that. And that then gives rise to, you know, stories about Lando, kind of all of a sudden becoming in, title contention for the driver's championship. And, you know, I think we'd have all liked to think that would have happened at the beginning of the season, but I don't think anybody really could have foreseen that. You know, everybody probably thought Max would run away with it again and be, you know, at least 100 points clear by the time you get to the end of the summer break.

And, you know, that's sort of it. And then, you know, obviously, without sort of dredging over the past, nobody could have foreseen all of the drama that what happened in Bahrain last year. which, you know, forms a big component part of episode one. You know, that certainly wasn't in any of our story planning meetings before we all arrived on the ground in Bahrain. So, yeah, there is a big element of having to adapt and pivot. Now, yeah, it's not set in stone, is it, at any point.

And I think that's the key thing there. I'm going to ask this next question, Tommy. I think you were going to, but it's about Lecler. So while I don't know, would I not ask this question? It's ridiculous. Of course, there was an amazing episode about, Charles Leclair, winning at Monaco, breaking the curse and things like that. If he didn't win that race, would you have counted the entire episode for when he did win it in the future?

Well, you know, it would have remained the curse of Leclerc, wouldn't it? So, I don't know, like, I think that, by the way, is one of our better titles this year. I think Le Curse of Leclerc. I know the title, you know, you think the show splits opinion, the titles have a whole sort of, I think they have a whole sub-reddit on, you know, kind of. of people's opinions on those. You know, in all honesty, I don't know, because it might have been quite interesting

to show that that sort of POV of him still not managing it. The problem is that story had kind of been told before. You know, we've been with Charles where Monaco hasn't gone very well. So, yeah, probably, you know, the reality is if he hadn't won, then probably there wouldn't have been enough to make that sort of solo, peace about him.

We probably would have had to think about something else. So when you saw that, that red flag come out, you were like, done and dusted, the episode's in the bag, no pit stops, it's over. Yeah, but you know what? The red flag coming out was actually pretty bad news because he'd kind of, he'd maintain the lead in that first start. And he talks about that, you know, he's like, yeah, I've sort of done it. And then the red flag comes down.

He's like, oh, God, I've got to do it all again. I've got to do another start. And there's that sort of risk that goes with it. But yeah, if it's going to be interesting, you know, Monaco with the whole changes to the racing format for this year, you know, you never know. Maybe qualifying isn't it going to be the thing that decides the race moving forward, we'll have to see. Maybe, you never know. This one is from Flesser. How many hours of material do you actually make during a season?

And I guess how much is then cut out if you're constantly. thinking on your feet and changing things. There must be an awful lot. Yeah, there is. And I think that's, you know, that's a blessing and a curse in many respects. Because so we have a varying number of crews at every Grand Prix. We're at every Grand Prix, but the scale of that varies quite dramatically. Sometimes we'll have, you know, maybe one camera.

And they're only there just in case something crazy happens. and we kind of need to react to it. And then some Grand Prix, we know that there's going to be some sort of story payoff or something's going to happen in that Grand Prix that makes it a larger feature for us. So we can have five or six crews kind of around the paddock. And obviously those races, you have a lot more latitude

to kind of adapt to what happens. I think, you know, I did a chat with Formula One last week and they've put an article up. And I think they sort of estimate in seven years of drive survivors about 10,000 hours of footage. And then in addition to that, we get every single camera that Formula One operate. And that is a, that's a sort of crazy amount of media. You know, they have, I think it's 24 cameras around the track. There's 80 on board cameras.

There's a helicopter. There's about six or seven cameras that roam around the paddock. There's gopros. There's like all sorts of stuff. And that comes to us after every race. And it's an enormous sort of game of find the needle in the haystack. And, you know, it's a massive team on our side that combed through that stuff. But it is an extraordinary effort, especially when you have this nuts schedule that we have,

where the show has to be on service before the next season of racing starts. And, you know, because Formula One is so popular, they keep adding races and it keeps making it even harder for all of us. So, yeah. you know, it's a massive, massive challenge. But you do find some of those amazing little moments. And, you know, the only way you can do that is by kind of combing through it all. That's actually one thing we just discussed actually about kind of our favorite moments in the previous season. And one of the ones that I mentioned that really sort of like, I thought was really cool in the first season.

sorry, the first episode of the new season was when Carlos and Lewis are having a chat in the press conference and sort of like whispering to each other. So do you have access to those microphones and all those kind of, I guess, that doesn't go out to the press that are sat there in the interview room, but you get to hear all those kind of like little whispers that they're talking.

Yeah, so it's a variety of things. So obviously there's microphones that they use for the press conferences and things like that. But we also have our own, you know, amazingly talented team of sound recordists who... Following with a boom mic everywhere to get everywhere. Yeah, exactly. They've become iconic.

You know, before Drive to Survive, nobody had ever seen a boom mic in the paddock. And now, you know, as soon as they see it, I remember watching there's a brilliant YouTube video of, like, who's got the longest boom in the paddock. And, like, they get circulate, that video gets circulated amongst the crew, because, you know, you're sort of laughing about which soundy is it.

It's got some enormous boom pole trying to sort of kind of, kind of drop into a conversation. But yeah, we, you know, we use radio mics. We use some, you know, ambient mics in certain areas. There's microphones on our cameras, obviously. There's a massive sort of plethora of microphones and techniques that the sound is used to capture those little moments. Because that's, I think that's the sort of stuff that's always elevated drive to survive outside the norm. you know, if you look back at season one of, of Drive Survive,

you know, Gunter becoming an absolute icon in the, you know, we could have been rock stars, but now we look like a bunch of wankers. Like that moment. That is the moment, isn't it? And that was entirely caught on a radio mic that he was wearing and he took a phone call and was chatting to Gene on the phone. And all of those moments of, you know, the sort of hygiene, the kind of iconic sort of phrase that Gunter will all.

always be known by, you know, known by now. Hi, Gene. Most of those are sound with no pictures. You know, there's shots of a closed door and it's the sound that actually gives you that privileged access. And I think that's where, you know, having that sensitivity to sort of capturing sound from day one has been massively important to the show. It's interesting you mentioned about, you capturing these sneaky moments. A question from Shady Sir. Have there ever been any things that we're in the final cut of Drive to Survive, but a team or driver asked you to remove it? Well, the teams don't have editorial control, and I think that's a big departure for them. You know, that requires an enormous amount of trust on their part and participation and

collaboration. You know, there's things that we show that are incredibly sensitive moments, and we don't want to do that without the team or the driver or, you know, being supportive of why we're doing that. You know, a great example this year would be, you know, George Russell after the Singapore Grand Prix, you know, is pretty unwell after being in that car, you know, overheating for the full duration of the Grand Prix and he, you know, and he, you know, and he needs some medical attention and, you know, that, that, that clip obviously is, is pretty intense. And, you know, we've, included that in collaboration with Mercedes and George and, you know, everybody that was involved because it's important to us that if we're going to show something like that, everybody

supports it and everybody's on board with it. You know, there's also stuff that we capture naturally that is commercially sensitive. And that's one area that we just have to be very careful of is like sometimes we hear, we'll overhear contract negotiations that people don't even know what happening. And, you know, so, so we have to be very careful of that because what we can't do is obviously damage commercially damage any of the teams or the sport or anything like that so again you know there's certain things that teams wouldn't want in the public domain just because it might give a competitor a commercial advantage and it's the same with you know we have a privilege position inside the garages with these

cars and sometimes all the body works off and our guys are filming and then it's only when you show that footage to the team as part of that review process towards the end they go oh my God, that's a really confidential bit of break duct, which none of us would ever have known, that needs to be blurred or can you use a different shot? Because if such a body sees that, they'll nick our design. And so there is an element of that process. But in terms of like veto rights, they don't veto, you know, they can't sort of ask for stuff to be removed on editorial grounds. Okay, that's really interesting, actually, because, yeah, hearing about the George Russell clip, for example, and the fact that the team and himself is happy to show that clip,

because you say it is intense. But yeah, it makes sense as well from your perspective that if you start showing things that teams are absolutely not happy about, everyone closes up, and then we get a series that doesn't show what we want to see. So it must be such a fine line to balance on. It is. And I think it's about making sure everybody understands what we're trying to do, like what we're trying to achieve, you know, and I think this is where maybe some of that kind of Marmite element, you know, comes in where some people love drive to vibe,

some people really don't. And I think it's because of the fact that, you know, what we're trying to do for Formula One isn't necessarily what some, you know, purest racing fans want to happen to their sport. You know, I think we're trying to open the door and bring in a whole new raft of fans, you know. I think I'm incredibly proud.

proud when I go to Grand Prix now. I was at Silverstone this summer to see so many more kids, so many more women, like such a much broader spectrum of audience going to Grand Prix and watching Grand Prix. And I think that for me, if that's the legacy of Drive to Survive, it's not only Drive to Survive. Formula One have done an amazing job of engaging on social media and, you know, opening the sport up as well. But if Drive to Survive has contributed a little bit to that, then that's a great, a great legacy for the show to have. You must be like the Oracle of Formula One then, if you have all these behind the scenes stuff that you can't tell.

Can you do one day, can you do... I knew Hamilton was going to Ferrari in 2022. One day in when I don't even know if this would ever be possible, do it like a tell-all book in like 20 years time where you're like, well, actually, did you know that the Stappan was talking to Ferrari in 2014 and all this kind of stuff that you've heard on every little bit of audio? As a Formula One fan,

that must also be like the dream but also really annoying you can't tell everyone all this amazing stuff that you know about right well yeah it's funny because um you know a lot a lot of people that work on the show weren't formula one fans before working on the show and that and that's actually sort of a conscious decision from the team because we didn't want to fall into the trap of telling the preconceived stories of formula one you know just because the media has been telling you X, Y, Z about a driver forever. We didn't want to kind of just accept that as this is the reality. We wanted to be able to go in with fresh pairs of eyes.

I, however, was a Formula One fan. And, you know, I'd been, I'd camped at Silverstone and sat on a deck chair at the end of the hangar straight at 6 o'clock in the morning to get a good spot. And, you know, I'd sort of done that. And I'd followed the sport pretty avidly, you know, from being a kid. So for me, those early seasons, it was very much alike kind of, you know, through the looking glass kind of moment where you're in the paddock and think, oh my God, like, how the hell did I end up here? And then I think as I've gone through seven years of working on the show, you realize that actually it's sort of quite a small world and it's quite a normal world. You know, there's everybody dealing with real life things.

I remember, you know, in Bahrain testing, when all of this craziness was kicking off and, you know, the, with all the sort of Red Bull Christian stuff. And the press were kind of running around trying to figure out kind of what could they report, what couldn't they report, you know, all these journalists getting together in the paddock to say, right, who's running this story? Has anyone spoken to the lawyers yet and all that kind of stuff? And then I remember looking across and one of the Sky team was stood on the paddock on his phone doing a video call. and I thought, oh, he must be doing an interview. And then I sort of saw him afterwards and he'd been joining parents' evening for his kids' parents' evening from in the paddock when all of this craziness is going on. And he's trying to break an international, you know, massive breaking news story. And he had this, he had to attend parents' evening.

And that to me is like a perfect example of the reality of Formula One. It's like, it's real life. It's real people who give up an enormous amount of time to travel the world. 24 races is a lot you know it's an incredibly grueling schedule and I think that's what makes the sport great is that you know it is basically made up

of a load of different personalities and different people and they're all you know trying to achieve their own goals and you know and that's what makes it really really appealing this one's from Ghost of Indy 2005 have the Netflix crew have been following a driver or team and filmed a situation that they realised they really shouldn't have.

I guess it's similar to what you mentioned before, but it's interesting you mentioned the Russell kind of moment. Are there moments where that's kind of happening and you go, just we keep rolling and then we'll find out afterwards whether this is okay. Yeah, I think there was definitely an element of that. We felt that in season three with the Roman Grosjean crash. I think, you know, anybody that was in Bahrain, for that crash, it's etched in their mind as it was pretty horrendous. I wasn't in the paddock

for that race, but obviously we had an enormous number of crew there and I've spoken to a lot of them sort of subsequently about it. You know, and it was horrendous because genuinely I think, you know, most people thought there's no way he's getting out of that car, like how is it possible that he gets out of that? And obviously the instincts for Formula One is they cut the TV feeds, the cameras, sort of cover away they're not covering it so nobody really knows what's going on um and i think you know we we knew we had to keep filming and then obviously we kind of deal with it afterwards and we were very very careful to make sure that if we told that story we told it with the blessing of roman you know with the has team we also wanted to shine a light on the unbelievable

work of like the fia stewards um in that you know incident and obviously the medical car who are actually responsible for kind of pulling him out. And so I think, yes, you keep filming because that's what you do as, you know, if you're making sort of documentary content, you keep filming and then you sort of figure it out

afterwards. But, you know, I think if Roman had been very vehemently against telling that story, then of course we would have respected that because it was such an, you know, a harrowing moment. I think the reality is our crew, as much of our crew are amazing at blending into stuff, they are still pretty conspicuous. You know, the cameras aren't that small. We've already joked about the boom mics.

You know, I think if a driver's about to do something that they know that they don't want Netflix, they know us enough to say, not now, guys, or shut the door on us, you know, and there's many instances over seven years of people telling us to, like, do one. Yeah, I think we saw it this year. I think Horner told you to F off, I think at one point when he was going to speak to Lawson. Yeah, you know, Horner, you know, Horner's always telling us to do one. And, you know, in many respects, they're always quite nice ends to scenes, aren't they, when someone slams a door in your face?

It's quite a good way to kind of end a moment. You're like, perfect. There we go. That's our cut point. Next question. And this one, I guess, is quite a widely spoken about one. You must be aware of the criticism around the fakeness of Drive to Survive from F1 fans and drivers. How would you respond to people that dismiss this?

series and just think it's all fake and scripted drama? I think, you know, I think that's a real shame when people kind of write it off with a, with a big sort of blanket term like that. Obviously, it's more nuanced than that. Are there mistakes in Drive to Survive? Absolutely. There's loads of them. This, you know, this show is so challenging to make. I think people think that we basically kind of chill and that the show makes itself, like, it is. is the biggest, most complicated, heavy lift of a show to get done every year. We have an amazing team.

There's about 160 people that work on the show, an enormous team at the edit who work through Christmas, through New Year. You know, basically Christmas is cancelled every year for those that are working on Drive to Survive. It's a massive push to get it to the finish line. And as a result of that, do mistakes happen? Absolutely. you know there's a there's a mistake sort of doing the rounds this year a couple of rogue shots that you know the conspiracy theorists like to think it was a massive intentional stitch-up job the reality is two shots look quite similar people are wearing the same clothes in both

and there's a mistake you know and I think when we spot things like that that are that are kind of just innocent mistakes we rectify them where we can and you know some of the continuity stuff people like to point out, you know, it is just the nature of making a really complicated show like this. Tom, to be honest, I won't forgive you and the entire team for the fact that Charlotte Clair was starting the Monaco Grand Prix on Hard Tires. It honestly shocked me to my core. Yes.

Yes. It's shots like that that are a challenge. And I think, to be honest with you, that's what, you know, we know that's what winds the purists up. It's stuff like that. But I think the reality is we, you know, we need to remember what the show is for. You know, the show isn't a highlight show. The show isn't a in-depth technical analysis of a race season because, you know, people,

like you guys do an amazing job of analyzing the actual racing and, you know, even the broadcast partners around the world, you know, if you want to know about tire strategy, engines, aerodynamics, you know, Sky do a great job of talking about that. That's not what Drive to Survive is for. Drive to Survive is there to appeal to a broader audience and actually to kind of shine a light on the human stories that make up Formula One. And I think Drive to Survive is the better

for having people working on it that aren't necessarily Formula One purists because they go where the story goes and they tell stories that people can identify with. The trade-off with that is sometimes people don't realize that oh crap that's a hard tire and that shouldn't be on that car at that particular moment and do we have an alternative shot for that and if we'd spotted it then of course we would have used the right shot um so you know it's difficult i think the thing that's sad for me

and i see it a lot and i see this in main some of the mainstream journalists you know we'll write articles saying why they don't like drive to survive and then in the article they say i only watch season one i haven't watched it since and you're like well yeah you know maybe watch all of it. And then like if you watch it and you don't like it, fine. Like that's free will. That's the whole point of watching shows. I watch stuff that I don't like.

I watch stuff that I do like. It doesn't, it's not the end of the world. Like, you know, but I think writing it off completely from a, from a starting point, you know, without kind of appreciating what it's there for, you know, is a shame. Because I think, you know, even if even if you don't like some of the stuff that, is in it. There's still moments in there that I think anybody can find interesting or insightful or, you know, can give you a fresh view on a particular situation. We obviously bantered about the whole like, oh, Charlotte Clare was on hard ties at this point. Do you feel like it's something that,

you know, if I take my Formula One nerd hat off and, you know, the challenge of essentially like a Formula One fan like us, we know every single bit of context about that race. And you're kind of having to cover almost like a 70 lap Grand Prix in a five minute segment or sometimes even 40 seconds or something that you kind of have to like piece bits together to almost kind of make the whole thing make sense because because it's there are people that are watching the sport, sorry, watching drive to survive that don't have a clue and need that context and need need kind of things happening all the time. Yeah, I think you know, whenever you distill a super complicated two-hour race into five minutes you know you are invariably

going to have to make some decisions as to what you do and don't show and and ultimately Drive survives an entertainment show it's there it's there to entertain an audience you know it isn't a very straight BBC style documentary series like this that's not its MO like it's designed to entertain people make people interested in the sport you know and ultimately make people want to watch because, you know, if we edited these races together and it was just a load of, you know, onboards of max 20 seconds ahead of everyone else having a pretty... Tommy would love that. Tommy would laugh that. There'd probably be a whole new subset of audience that we'd engage with there.

But I think it's a challenge. I don't think you could probably win whichever way you go with Drive Survivor. There's always going to be a group of people that aren't happy, you know, whether that's people that want a more purest telling of race stories or people that are actually there because they like the entertainment genre and they kind of want that style of show. And I think, you know, we try to find the middle ground. And, you know, the reality is we, like I said, the schedule is so crazy. We're editing 10 episodes all at the same time. You can't really lock anything until the season's over. you know, we work with our amazing partners at Netflix, some of whom are based in L.A.

So quite often we're doing viewings in the night, nighttime, UK time, to work with time zones. You know, everybody's exhausted. And so a random shot that accidentally slips through, you can kind of see how it happens. And I think we've got better at it. I think there's fewer of them. I think there's still some that are annoying. And, you know, to be honest with you, some of the people on YouTube, We should probably employ to come and join the team.

You know, if they can spot some of this stuff so quickly after launch. Me and Tommy are available. Probably. Exactly. Get them on the payroll and they can point them out before we launch the show next time. It's funny that you mentioned just quickly before we move on that, you know, it's difficult to cater to everybody. I think, you know, myself and Tommy, we spoke about it in our sort of review of the series

of we both really loved the five drivers, Singapore Grand Prix, gives them, give them a camera. It was fresh. It was different. And then I tried to put myself in the mindset of someone that's watching Drive to Survive for the first time. They're probably sat there going, who are these blokes? I want to see the cars on track. I don't want to see these random guys on planes. So it's funny that you do have to try and hit that middle ground because you're not a season review,

but some people want to see the cars. And yeah, I don't envy your job in the slightest. No. It's funny, though, like there's a whole group of audience that don't watch the sport because they're, don't want spoilers for Drive to survive. Which to me, I was like, my mind was completely blown when somebody told me that.

And it's like, wow, okay, right. I'm not entirely sure that was the intention when we started making Drive Survive. But that shows you the breadth of people that watch the show, you know, like there is genuinely people that just tune in to Drive to Survive because they like that show in the same way as they'll tune into, you know, whatever other Netflix show it is they love.

So obviously Max Lestappan is probably the main one, but other drivers have also been kind of critical of the series in the past. Do you really care what F1 drivers think, or is it more about just kind of making it good for the audience? How do you kind of balance that side of it when maybe a Formula One driver is being so critical? Yeah, I think, you know, obviously it's a shame when there's issues with, you know, teams or drivers or anything like that. You know, I think, I think also we should be mindful of the fact that, you know, these things always get kind of blown out of proportion.

You know, it's, it becomes this sort of media echo chamber where one quote gets on the internet article. And then a thousand different newspapers are actually just quoting that original article and it just becomes this sort of snowball. And, you know, I think, as you can see, we've filmed in and around Max at Grand Prix. And, you know, Red Bull are a very sort of prominent part of the show. And, you know, and I think, listen, you know, Max had his opinions on the early seasons. And we've spoke to him about that. That's been pretty widely reported. And, you know, and my hope is that we, everybody can work collaboratively because I do genuinely believe that a successful drive to survive

benefits everybody because, you know, the increased interest in the sport, the increased social media followers that everybody kind of gets off the kind of off the back of a Drive to Survive launch, ultimately bring sponsors to the sport, you know, it's bringing an 11th team to the sport from 26, you know, that's a sign of a sport that's in rude health. and sponsors successful commercial activity around Formula One, well, that's what pays the driver's salaries and creates the sort of opportunities that they have for brand partnerships and all that kind of stuff.

And I think, you know, there's no reason why it can't all coexist in quite a positive way. And I think, you know, and that's not to say that, you know, either side is right or wrong. I think it's just about, you know, it can be mutually beneficial for us all to have a successful drive to survive. And everything else, you know, like you look at the, you know, there's movies being made about Formula One at the moment. There's other documentaries.

There's like, you know, the fact that the US viewership is doing so well. Like, that's great news for everybody that's involved in Formula One. Drivers, teams, us, you guys, you know, it's the same for all of us, really. Yeah, F1 is now no longer niche, which is something that myself and Tommy still can't rack our heads around. because we've been so used to not talking to anyone about Formula One. That was always the thing, wasn't it? You used to be a Formula One. I always said if you went into a pub as a Formula One fan before Drive to Survive

and mentioned anything to do with Drive to Survive, anything to do with Formula One, people wouldn't have a clue what you were talking about. Now you go into a pub. Oh, that one. Yeah, exactly. You see that team merch everywhere and everything now and it's so alien to us. Every time I see someone in the wild with, like, F1 merch, and I'm like, there's another one.

And then I realized that it's a massive, port now and it just still doesn't set in. I know and it's uh you know the again it's kind of the the blessing and curse my my son I've got a nine-year-old son and he's massively into Formula One not because he watches drive to survive because there's far too much swearing in there for him but because it's become zeitgeist you know everyone talks about Formula One like the other kids at school talk about Formula One and that would never have been the case you would have been talking about your football team and that would have probably been about the extent of it in the playground and now they're talking about F1 drivers and all this kind of stuff. And then,

you know, just to further empty all of our bank balances, you know, the Lego collaboration, you know, I was sort of joking with Will Buxton about the fact that he's become the face of the Lego adverts on TV, which is just another way to alleviate me of some money because as soon as my son sees those adverts, I've had it. You know, it's like he's going to want the whole grid in Lego. But no, it is a sign of the times really that, you know, that the sport is in such massively rude health. Obviously, your nine-year-old son doesn't watch Drive to Survive because of the swearing, but obviously tunes into the FIA press conferences as known as seen. Yeah, yeah. They're very, they're very child friendly now. Speaking of press conferences,

actually, when Drive to Survive first started, obviously up until now, it's been seven seasons. Interviews with drivers used to be so stale. The sport didn't have much social presence. Did you find when you first begun to now that they were very PR-friendly, very stale answers? And then how did you sort of get the drivers to open up more to the point that we're now at? Interesting, because actually in season one,

some of our first interviews were audio only. In essence, we've probably gotten amazing, bones of a podcast in our season one rushes. Because we have these great conversations. Some of them were like two hour conversations with some of these key characters that, you know, were early adopters. So, you know, Cyril, when he was at Renault, was one of our first interviews. And then, you know, we chatted to him for quite an extensive period of time, just about

the sport. And actually, you know, Danny, Daniel Ricardo was, again, one of those early interviews. We also interviewed Daniel's parents, which is something that we've not really done much since. But I think we were keen to learn about the sport through the point of view of these characters. And naturally, that slightly different tack of just having a conversation with them and actually genuinely trying to learn from them, like, how does the sport work? You know, in your opinion, what's the sport about? Gave us some really insightful answers.

And then I think when season one dropped and they realized that we used, all of the connecting moments that we've talked about already, you know, like, oh, that bit where I'm sitting down in the chair and asking for a drink and doing this and doing the clapboard and all that. That's actually in the show. I think that's when everybody realized that this was the tone that we were looking for. And makes it more real as well, doesn't it? I love, I love that you've done that. And you've actually, one bit that always gets me that I think is really funny is, is you see, you see the driver going, oh, what's the official name of the team again? And again, these team names are getting more and more complicated as the more sponsors come to the sport.

Yeah, no, it's always funny. And it's a recurring joke as well. I think we've had, like, Lewis for several years, every year he gets down. And then you can see in their eyes, they sit down and they go, oh, shit, I should have asked before I sat down. I've fallen into the same drive-to-surve trap again. And so, yeah, you know, I think, I think it's those little moments that are just, you know, they're sort of pretty, pretty, pretty, humorous and the show's got to be funny like it's it is it can't take itself too seriously I think that's the point the show the show has to have humor at its core you know I think

obviously I've spoken about the fact that my son doesn't watch it because of the swearing I think one of the big moments for that was season two with with Daniel ricardo walking down the paddock and I won't say the word because I'm a northerner my mom will come down to London and kill me. He's walking down the paddock with his trainer and, you know, Danny liked to play pranks on our crew and ruin shots or think he was ruining shots that we couldn't use them. And he looked straight down the camera and he just said, Netflix are a real bunch of see you next Tuesdays.

And then he turns to, you know, to Michael goes, I'd love it if they use that. And then Michael goes, they're not going to use that. they're not going to use that. And as soon as we saw that clip, we showed it to Netflix and they went, that opens an episode. That's the open of an episode. Yeah.

And I think that set the tone. I think that was the real moment when everyone went, oh, okay. Really nothing is off the table. And also it showed that we're willing to sort of take the Mickey out of ourselves. And yeah, I think that will probably remain one of the, you know, drive-s-servive iconic moments.

It's a shame because it's iconic, but we can never show it to anyone. Love it. Ludacrous Chaos asks, who is or slash was the best driver to talk to and also the most difficult driver to talk to? Oh, God, you're going to get me into trouble? Do you know what? I think best driver to, I think we'd be remiss to say to, to not say that Daniel Ricardo is a massive favorite of the show. and, you know, our founders, Paul Martin and James Gay-Reece,

who are our exec producers and they, you know, they've sort of led the company and they're kind of figureheads of all of this. You know, Paul, in an interviewer spoke about Danny, you know, and the fact that really the show probably wouldn't have survived to the point that it had without Danny. And, you know, he opened season one at one for us, you know, and his mom and that kind of Australian Grand Prix and the kind of emotion from her about watching him race and the dangers of it.

And, you know, I think we, we owe him a massive sort of debt of gratitude for his sort of continued support over seven years. There's obviously a big hole, but now that he's not going to be in the show, you know, and I think the same can be said for Gunter. You know, Gunter obviously sort of very open book, just said it how it was. Still claims to have not watched the show, which I think is actually, Well, yeah, you do wonder. I think his wife and daughter do. But he still claims not to watch it.

But in many respects, I kind of want that to be true because I think that's why he then didn't change. You know, he was still the same Gunter in season six that he was in season one. You know, I think difficult driver, to be honest with you, it depends kind of what's going on. Like, if they're coming off the back of a really tricky key moment. Like, anybody has the potential to be difficult.

You know, I don't think there's like one driver that's consistently difficult. I think it's a case of, you know, if things aren't, they're incredibly competitive people. And if it's not going their way or they're frustrated at something that's, you know, then obviously, you know, that permeates everything they do. And I think that's also an interesting trait. You know, you can, in many respects, in interview, by refusing to answer a question, you can say, more about that topic than if you'd actually answered it.

And I think that's just why, again, it's interesting. And seven years of being with these, you know, amazing athletes has given us such great content. So you say about off the back of bad results and things like that, how often do you talk to the drivers? What's the amount across the whole year that you'll speak to each individual? One, do you kind of heavily weigh towards the landos of this world? or how does that kind of work? We obviously have very close relationships with the teams, the drivers. There's a lot of continuity in our crew as well

because what box to box is famous for is delivering kind of top class access. Like access is sort of what we've built our entire identity on. And in essence, Drive to Survive is 10 access projects running simultaneously 24-7 every year. because that ongoing access conversation with teams and then drivers and everyone else is constantly ongoing. We have directors that tend to focus on two or three teams and they'll be the main point of contact. So there's familiarity.

There's that kind of shorthand that they build up over the years. We obviously speak to the managers a lot, the driver's managers. And then they know as much as we do that if they're going to do something and they think, well, this might be interesting to drive to survive. then they'll let us know, you know, we're going to be doing this, we're going to be going to go on holiday to this place, we're going to be going and doing this thing,

you know, this filming day, whatever, do you want to tag along? You know, and there's that constant back and forth. And then interviews, you know,

we tend to do a lot of interviews that during race kind of weeks, weekends, things like that, you know, set up, set up, you know, anywhere in the world to kind of shoot those interviews and,

and work around them. But, you know, it is a constant collaboration. It must have been great for, It must have been great for the show when, you know, someone like Lando after Brazil was so open and gave you, like, so much. He kind of almost like laid his heart on the table and said he didn't sleep and stuff. You guys must have been like, this, this is, you know, obviously like really good at kind of humanising the sport, if you like.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, like, I'm always amazingly sort of impressed when drivers are willing to do that, you know, when they're willing to kind of open up to us. I think you also get a sense from the material like our team have built a great relationship with Lando and you get that sense from the fact that it's sort of a conversation you know he's he's chatting to them you know more as friends like they're having this conversation about

I've not slept I feel like but is it the jet like no you know just it's kind of me I'm just you know and that conversational way of doing interviews really works And that is a slow, long process of building up that trust and that access and that sort of participation. And, you know, and it's testament to the crew that work on the show, you know, the fact that they continually sort of are able to deliver this, this access. Next question comes in from grumpy car nut. Now that Ricardo. Bodes well.

It's actually not a grumpy question. Now that Ricardo and Gunter are out of the sport, who do you see as the next? Breakout Stars of the show. I'm going to turn that question to you guys. You've just watched the show. Like, who do you, as viewers, I've got my opinion. I'll give my opinion after you. So like, what do you think?

Like, are there anyone that sort of jumped out this year for you? Flavio as a villain. Yeah, Flavio the villain, for sure. He's sort of replaced Lawrence Stroll. We were speaking about, haven't we, Tommy, of being this next villain. so that probably is the one that sticks in both of our heads. Is there any others you think, Tommy? I mean, Flavio is definitely one of the people there.

And that is interesting because I feel like Drive Survive has always, while it's kind of exploded driver's profiles, so much of the focus has been on the team principles which you never saw before, which I think is what made it so interesting. I always found it funny that, you know, Gunther wouldn't have had a look in. And no one would have been interviewing Gunther Steiner

had Drive to Survive, not happened. And then suddenly he's on Sky Sports every week chatting. And it's kind of like, well, how did you not know this guy was so funny all along? But I think the team principles definitely are the kind of ones that really kind of stand out. It's funny because, you know, obviously there's a lot of focus on Danny

and Gunter leaving the show or leaving the sport and the show. But that's been a story of Drive to Survive from the start. One of my favorite moments in season one was Cyril and Christian. And there was this fantastic moment where Renaud had all of their execs. I can't remember what race it was.

I think it might have been spa that I'm probably wrong. Somebody on YouTube will point out that I'm wrong. And they were outside. And there was this unbelievable. awkward moment before they went into this press conference. And I think it had been when Christian had just announced that they were not going to be using Renault engines moving forward. And then obviously the revenge blow was that Cyril then signed Danny Rick. And it was like, and it was this absolutely fantastic sort of moment of, you know, politicking between those two characters.

And then obviously Cyril left the sport after a few years. And at that point, we were like, oh, Cyril's such a great character. It's such a shame to lose him. But the beauty of Formula One is that, but, you know, where people leave, new people come in. And I think Flavio is a great example of that. You know, he, he's absolutely iconic. I think anybody that is a Formula One fan of history, you know, he's, he's of that sort of proper kind of old school Formula One sort of world. You know, he's a really interesting guy. I do often wonder, like, had we been making drive to survive, you know, back in the day when it was, you know, when it was like, you sort of I've had Flavio, Eddie Jordan, Ron Dennis, you know, Bernie was around.

Bernie, you can make a whole series on just Bernie. You know, I think it would have been fascinating. And I think with Flavio, you get a little bit of sense of that kind of, you know, he's there to kind of turn that team around and he's going to do it no matter what. And I think that's really, really interesting to see. I think looking forward, we've got, you know, we've always talked about these young guns or, you know, And this year, we actually have a massive number of rookies coming into the sport, which is going to be fascinating, you know, whichever way you, you know, it goes.

You've got, you know, obviously, I think there's six, six rookies, if you count people like Liam. I know Liam's not technically a rookie, but he kind of is a rookie. Olly, you know, I know Ollie, you know, had a few Grand Prix, but he's, he's kind of new blood. It's the first full season that he's had. I think it's be really fascinating to kind of, to watch those guys as well. as sort of new characters. Speaking of OLLI, and of course, you know, us as hardcore F1 fans,

there are points, obviously, that we go, oh, that was missing. And I guess from your side as well, being a Formula One fan, I bet you're like, ah, I wish I'd be able to tell this story or that story. We spoke about this in our review, but there were kind of moments like,

let's say, a couple of examples, Olly Behrman, you know, stepping in and doing an amazing job in the Ferrari. And then the other one being George disqualified at Spa, from your perspective, we tried to kind of explain it from your perspective, but you're here now so you can kind of maybe shine a light on why aren't these moments included? George was disqualified from Belgium. Clay, let me get back.

Hang on a minute. How did we miss that one? I think, listen, the George one's quite an easy one to address because for us, that race was not about the eventual classified race result. that race was about George taking control of the decision making of that of that team you know and that was the first time really that we'd see you know the team wanted him to pit they wanted him to put new tigers they wanted to do all of this stuff and George took the responsibility for that race and said no I think I can make it to the end on these sires that's what was important to us there because that was him showing number one driver mentality properly and actually giving the start the insight that, you know, he could run that team. You know, he could take that step and be a number one. And therefore, Toto didn't need to look for a number one to replace Lewis because he sort of had one, a homegrown one in George. The fact that he was then, you know, the fact that he was,

you know, the fact he was then disqualified for something to do with weight and thing. And he's just like, oh my goodness me. Like, the team made a mistake, which ultimately led to him being disqualified. It doesn't take away from the fact that George's decision making in that Grand Prix was the mark of a future leader. So that, for me, that's quite a straightforward one. The OLLI ones sort of more interesting because we have, we have this a lot in Drive to Survive. There's so many amazing stories that you really wish you could tell. And, you know, it's not necessarily that we don't have footage because we actually do have footage of the sort of OLLI stuff. But you can't start a story you then can't pay off in a way that's fulfilling.

And I think the OLLI story would have felt like kind of half a story if it had been included in season seven. The beauty of drive to survive is that, you know, we're not restricted into only telling stories from that one year. So this is not to say that a future episode of Olly Berman won't go back and look at that, you know, how did he get his seat? Why is he in the sport this year? Like there's a load of story there that could be used to kind of tell how he's ended up in this situation.

So, you know, I think just because you haven't seen it in season seven doesn't mean you'll never see it. And I think there's examples of that in previous years where there was a great race from George. I'm going to say Brazil, but again, I might be wrong. Please, you know, put it in the comments if I'm wrong, which I probably am. I think, you know, there was an amazing race from George where he won. He won. I think it was the Brazilian Grand Prix a couple of years ago

and it didn't really make it into Drive to Survive and then we showed part of it the following season because we were doing an episode that was more about George and kind of what was going on with him

so I think that that's sort of key the reality is if we showed in a season like the one we've just had if we showed every single interesting storyline that happened we'd need 20 episodes and we'd never finish it 50 episodes based on last year

I know yeah My next question, when are they going to be 20 episodes? Well, it kind of amazes me when we look at it now, you know, as I said I was doing a chat with Formula One last week for their website. And he sort of paused and realize there's 70 episodes of Drive to Survive on Netflix now. And, you know, that is, that explains why I'm so tired. And have so many grey hairs. But I think it's an incredible achievement to, to,

have delivered 70 episodes on on this sport and still create compelling storylines I think you know and that's testament to the vision that you know James and Paul our founders had when they thought okay this this sport has legs and um you know and that partnership between Netflix Formula One and us um and long may it continue um but you know I think I think the show will continue for as long as there's interesting stories to tell and you know I think and people keep watching it if nobody watches it, then obviously there's not much point in making it. On Ricardo and Gunther,

actually, it's funny that, you know, we mentioned about the next breakout stars. Did you almost feel it's not like, I'm not saying it's a good thing that they've kind of moved on, but you can obviously focus on other stories without feeling like you're damned if you do kind of cover them every single

series, because does it get to the point where people are like, I've already seen this episode, this is a bit kind of repetitive, but equally you can now kind of focus on new character. and kind of find that next star, if you like. I think that's always been in the DNA of Drive to Survive. Like, season one, it's very widely reported that season one, Mercedes and Ferrari,

elected not to take part in the show. And I think, you know, that presented a unique challenge to us, you know, of, what do we do? Do we just call it quits and wave the white flag? But then actually what it forced us to do was look further down the grid at some of those lesser known teams. you uncover people like Gunter and, you know, all these amazing stories that are going on that haven't had the exposure. And I think that has remained part of the DNA of Drive to Survive, you know, not going for the obvious storyline, not going for the obvious, because that's why,

you know, when people ask about, you know, Lewis and Max and, you know, the beauty of Drive to survive is that it's not a show about one person. In many respects, who's winning the championship is actually less important in Drive to Survive than all. of these teams that are, you know, fighting to get P6 or, you know, some of these amazing battles that are going on further down the grid. And I think that will continue to be the case, sort of no matter what happens. You know, for me, the prospect of the, this intake of rookies in the sport this year is going to be incredibly exciting no matter what happens. Like, they might all be absolutely amazing and where, you know, we've got a future world champion

amongst them or it might be a bit of a crash vest. You know, who knows? Either way, it's going to be interesting to watch. And I think that's, again, that's the beauty of sport and why Drive Survive continues to be able to sort of deliver compelling narratives. Yeah, I'm surprised Tommy hasn't, you know, tried to force a Kimmy Antonelli future world champion episode down your throat yet because that's what he believes wholeheartedly. But maybe in future seasons.

And final question is from P1, Patreon member, Muscles and Raccoons. You seem to have a winning formula for each season of Drive to Survive, but is there something you want to do differently next season? I think, interestingly, the Singapore episode that you spoke about is an example of that kind of innovation that we're constantly looking at. You know, I think that episode is a real departure from the sort of norm. And again, if you think eight years ago before Drive to Survive, Can you imagine even thinking that drivers would film themselves for a series of some description,

you know, and would open up access to that extent? You know, it would be completely sort of unbelievable to even conceive. And so, you know, I think that's a really good example of that innovation. And, you know, hopefully that episode's, you know, chimed with everybody and people have enjoyed it. it was made with great partnership from Singapore as well. You know, they were very supportive of us kind of because it was a bigger shoot than normal for us. You know, Singapore were incredibly supportive of us doing that. And that required that commitment from those drivers that were filming and in that slightly more unfiltered, unfiltered way.

And of course, we're thinking about, you know, what future innovations we could implement, you know, how do we do things differently? how do we keep freshening things up? And that's why making shows like this is really exciting because, you know, hand-on heart, it kind of comes back to one of the earlier questions of how much do you plan ahead and how much do you pivot? Well, the reality is we're looking at a whole race season here

where who knows what's going to happen. And that's what makes it interesting and exciting for us all. Awesome. Well, that concludes quite a long podcast. Thank you so much, Tom, for coming on. You'll have to tell me, like, how many people have dropped off halfway through. Now, I've found it truly, you know,

it's so insightful, especially off the back of just watching the latest seasons. So thank you so much for being so open about it all. It's been really awesome to have you on. And we can't wait, I think, for the next, however many seasons will be coming. Fingers crossed, this season looks like you'll have your work cut out. So I'm sorry for, you know, wishing a few more grey hairs for you, but also I think hopefully season eight will be even bigger.

yeah i think you know listen like obviously there's nothing sort of official official yet in terms of season eight but you know we're hopeful that it'll it'll continue um you know for for many years to come because there's there's obviously compelling narratives there so fingers crossed fingers crossed i'll be back talking to you guys uh in a year's time uh about another another series why charler leclair you know he won all 24 races but you started him on medium tires Hearing about how you have every single piece of information, I think I need to start asking you for like pre-race predictions so I can actually get them right.

Yeah, you'll be getting a clean suite the whole year. So that'll be great. Thank you so much, Tom. Really appreciate it. And thank you everybody for watching and listening. We'll see you very soon. Take care. Bye.

Bye. P1 is a Stack production and part of the Acast Creative Network.