Pablo Torre Finds Out - "America's Biggest Failure": Share & Election & Tell with Wyatt Cenac and Tim Miller

Episode Date: November 8, 2024

After lint-rolling through post-election coverage, Pablo tries to makes peace with Trump 2.0, with a little help from the future president of Grenada and the host of The Bulwark Podcast: Have Joe Rogan and the manosphere become the new fourth estate? How did a Suicide Squad of psychopaths become Washington's starting lineup? And how much is Elon Musk’s science fiction really fictional anymore? Plus: Grumpcoin, Hungry Hungry Hippos, Stephen A. Smith 2028, and Canon Curry 2052. Further reading:About That Press Conference (Tim Miller)Elon Musk: The Evening Rocket (Jill Lepore) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is. I'm going to change my name to Grunald Grump and run. Right after this ad. You're listening to Draft King's Network. I'm in hell. I think I'm in a personal hell, and I have no exit from Donald Trump. And at this point, I think Donald Trump will outlive me. And I think that I'm cursed to never be able to think about anything else again in my entire. life. He just lives in my brain. It does feel like, obviously, while Donald Trump is the clear

main character in America, it also kind of does feel like maybe to each of us, maybe to every American, we are also the main character? Like, what did we do to bring this upon ourselves? I don't know if that's true about every listener, but that is true about me. And I'm convinced I'm the main character and that the rest of you are living in my personal hell. And I apologize. Yeah, this is your fault? Was it working for John McCain, Jeb Bush, the RNC? When I was working with the RNC, I did work. A couple of the candidates that I worked for that you haven't named checked were much worse than Jeb Bush and John McCain.

So maybe it's that. Maybe it's something from childhood, you know? I don't know. I was not very nice to my teachers in middle school. Maybe this is like, maybe one of them cast a spell upon me. You got a Nuggets championship. You're running your den to Nuggets Cup. I did get a Nuggets Championship.

At the Faustian Bargings. At what cost did you get that championship? It could be that. Nug life? I guess the only problem with that theory is that I got it after for the first Trump. So I feel like whatever happened that brought this curse upon you all. The monkeys' paw doesn't, there's no, there's no. Linear time on it.

Yeah. Monkeys paw doesn't see time the way that we do. Okay. Yeah. It could be a thing where it just, you get it later. And it's like, hey, why are you so upset? You got the thing you wanted. Yeah.

the world around you is on fire, but you got your thing. I got to say I would have traded it. I would have gladly given the heat to that championship in exchange for my current health. The city of Miami, it turns out, demographically and electorally, did win a tremendous championship. Yeah. In the incredibly red Miami-Dade County. Laga, Miami. So I need to be very clear that this episode is not going to be a comprehensive postmortem about why Donald Trump just got elected president again.

This is not going to be an episode about inflation and the economy, for instance, even though that might be the biggest suspect, actually, in the ongoing murder mystery, now enveloping the Democratic Party. It is likewise not going to be an episode about anti-incumbent bias or COVID or abortion or women or war and the Middle East or even race. It is an episode instead about this idea of influence and what it really means to be mainstream in the world. the year 2004. And so what I wanted to do was invite our old friend Wyatt Sannack, formerly of the Daily Show and HBO, and also a new guest, Tim Miller, host of the Bullwork podcast, and a former leader in the never-Trump Republican movement, which he subsequently left, and also which, politically, may not functionally exist anymore, at least as of Tuesday night. The Jeb Bush-John McCain Party is officially dead, for sure. The RNC is sadly thriving today.

So I wish we could say it was dead. But I think that many of us had hoped that Donald Trump was killing the Republican Party, but he might have killed the Democratic Party instead. So anyway, sorry. My brain has felt a little bit like a lint roller, just sort of like collecting bits of garbage and insight, mostly garbage, pieces of content, as I've quietly gotten drunk on the Internet's reaction to what are we calling it?

What are we calling this election? This point in time. Oh, sure. What we're doing here today. Yeah, I think that we're, I mean, we're probably at the end of the American Republic. Is that maybe too serious? Certainly of the American Republic as America as a global world leader.

So I think that's an interesting time to be with you here in New York City, the world's capital. Right, right, right. And Wyatt, Wyatt's an act. You recorded a comedy special. the Monday after the 2016 election. They did. Yeah.

And so how are you, what creativity is coursing through you right now? None. Great. Yeah. I don't know if it was intentional, but the t-shirt I'm wearing is a Peanuts T-shirt from the Halloween special where Charlie Brown goes trick-or-treating and everywhere he goes, all the other kids get candy and he got a rock. I got five pieces of candy. I got a chocolate bar.

I got a quarter. I got a rock. Maybe I chose this because this is how I'm feeling. I feel like, yeah, Halloween came and I got a rock. And that's really all I got at this point is just a bag of rocks. How does that special hold up now, you know, in Donald Trump 2.0? Do you think back on it? Are there any jokes in it?

I mean, if anything, it is weird because they play this sort of same. Charlie Brown joke that they do in the strip a lot where Lucy holds the football and pulls the football away. And there is something about that hope that Charlie Brown has that feels like a hope that I think a lot of us had. That, oh, okay, this is it. We're going to kick the football this time. And things may not be perfect for everybody, but we're going to get back to, we're going to try to get to some level of civility, that maybe our discourse can be a little more civil. Maybe we can try to be a little more rational with this. And no, no. Yeah, Snoopy now had five million people watching his live stream of the election. He's a conservative influence. And it was Candice Owens was

on it. I want to start with an element that has stuck to my brain as I've been lint rolling across the internet. As I've been contemplating why it is that the Republican Party has won the largest majority since 1988, Tim? Is that right still? That's correct. And I keep on returning to this idea of like, Kamala Harris had this feel of being a system quarterback

at a time when the system was, I deeply loved the Shanahan offense that was democracy that was the institution as a premise, mainstream, anything, like a system at all

I was deeply a fan of and I sort of presumed that others, many more others would be too. Turned out that that system faced coverage to torture the metaphor here. That made it very easy to defeat. And

one of those coverages was explained by Dana White. I want to thank some people real quick. I want to thank the Nelpoys, Aidan Ross, Theo Vaughn, bustle with the boys, And last but not least, the mighty and powerful Joe Rogan. Thank you, America.

Thank you. Have a good night. They got that shout out from Dana White at the Trump Victory Party. And I returned to that because, of course, it summoned in me lots of bigger picture thoughts about like, oh, of course we're here. Of course it was going to go like this in retrospect. Of course people didn't give a about January 6th. Of course, the system of democracy.

was a system to be run against. And of course, this is far more structural maybe than people might appreciate at this moment. Like, I was looking at, to bring up another insane meme, right? I was looking at Antonio Brown's Twitter account. Oh, yeah. Because, of course, an unemployable former NFL player. He'll find a job in the new cabinet.

That's right. Who was kicked out of the league for multiple cases of sexual misconduct and also domestic violence. His Twitter account might be run, actually, at least is allegedly run by a, white dude somewhere who just posts racial slurs. Oh, sure. So that guy posted this meme where it was like Elon and Trump and RIP mainstream media and Antonio Brown has like the bolt cutters, the wire cutters or whatever in the day of the shovels. And I'm like, as much as I am going to land

upon the death of mainstream media as a thing I actually do increasingly believe in, I don't even think they get the credit for it. It seems structural. Like we know this. The reason and summoned all those feelings, is because we know this as people making stuff online. Right. That there is no mainstream. We're all in silos. Of course, you can eat away at a system in a world in which there is no larger consensus or guardrail or monoculture or anything like that. Yes, I have two thoughts in this.

One, the total collapse of the monoculture, of the structures that like we've seen across a lot of other verticals, like coming to politics. Yeah, that should not be surprising. like the democratization of that's why we're all here right like that's like the democratization of media democracy of uh came came to our political system it does recall kent brockman talking about how democracy simply doesn't work i've said it before and i'll say it again democracy simply doesn't work maybe what we should have been more protective of was the borg the system of liberal democracy because i don't know that people are going to like what happens in post liberal america that said, the Democrats could have played this game too, you know?

Yes. I hate to, you know, I hate to Monday morning quarterback and all this because it's like Trump, Trump won across the, like America wanted Trump. So at some level it's like there's a hollowness to be like, if you just sort of done this one podcast, like it would have been different, right? That said, there are Democrats that could have gone, that could have gone into those spaces and I think taken down the temperature a little bit and, like, made them feel less like they were in this battle of civilizations.

Because, like, these guys are not ideologues, right? Like, they have some ideological views on things that some progressives would find offensive, particularly about trans folks or things like that. It's not William F. Buckley. Like, they don't have these, like, constructed conservative worldviews. Like, you go in there and start talking to them about that Trump did that they don't even know about. You know what I mean? I couldn't they have engaged and, like, kind of, you know, cut the,

you know, cut into that audience. But does that only just legitimize that platform? Isn't it over? I mean, they were mentioned at the victory speech of the President of the United States. Sure, no. It's over. Like, they've legitimized. Well, now they are legitimate. Yeah. But I'm saying the idea that Bernie Sanders would go on Rogan, the idea that Harris was considering going on Rogan, is that only sort of saying, like, how much of it is, okay, we're going to meet this? this particular sect of disaffected voter where they're at versus asking them to be better and be better informed. Because the reality is... They're not getting better.

They're not. But also the reality is like white people have overwhelmingly voted Republican for over 50 years. Like that's like they've always voted in that block. And I'm lumping in a lot of that Rogan audience, a lot of that Nelk boy. audience as some of that demographic. I don't know that we fully understand why every presidential election, when you look at the white voter, the majority of white voters have voted Republican. I think it's more about understanding that. Tim mentioned something why that connects to what you are just articulating, which is that there are lots of people who are low information.

That's the term of art in politics, aka they aren't paying attention. into politics really and are getting their news insofar that's news from such places. Right. Right. And what that says is even if you know the information, you're like, not a deal breaker for me. Right. Felonies, rape in a civil suit, insurrections, go down the list, right?

It's endless. Yeah. The other thing about it is there are some people for whom they just don't even know or maybe even as troubling, they aren't getting their news in a way that is persuasive to the cause of defending said American project. And I think the whole question of like, are we just f***ed on this? Maybe.

Probably. I'm voting yes. Probably. I'm upgrading to probably. So it reminds, I'm going to force feed sports into this. Yeah. Not because I feel like I have an obligation to, but just because I think about my time as a sports reporter. At Sports Illustrated, the website was looked down upon forever. No one

want to write for the website because it was the internet. And you know who went and wrote for it? Peter King. And Peter King became the literal Monday morning quarterback to Miller. And he built an empire and had so much more success than the vast majority of Sports Illustrated writers because he recognized, okay, I'm not respected as much at the magazine. I'm going to go online. Yeah. And so the lead that the Democratic Party, the American Project broadly, the liberal project broadly, has surrendered is the Internet has been seated to people who were not as welcomed in those mainstream prestige outlets. And now we're trying to play catch up with the fucking Nelk boys. Yeah.

Big time catch up. It reminds me of, I'll make the political reference of like 2012 with Romney where we were like, oh, fuck, like the Obama team organized on the Internet. Like, we should probably do that now next time, you know? And so, like, it flips. So it can flip back. You know what I mean? Like, the, you know, it's not, it's not as if it is, you know, like, we're only going one direction and, like, of one side takes the lead on one platform, then it can't flip.

You know what I mean? But we're so fragmented now where I just don't, again, literally the mainstream, I think is, Antonio Brown is right about this. There is no mainstream. If there's mainstream anything. I guess that's why I just think that it's like, I just think the only choice is to engage in that world or else you're f***. I mean, sure, there's an.

other choices, like, building your own platforms. Like, I forget who, I saw somebody on the internet, fell off my lint roller, I guess, but somebody on the internet was like, the libs need their own Rogan. And I'm like, I don't know if the libs can build a Rogan. Like, I, you know, because part of the appeal... Why it?

You want to be, you want to be Rogan? Maybe you can try it. But part of the reason to be Rogan is you have to be able to, like, just say random shit you're thinking about that might be a little offensive or might be totally wrong. And, like, that's what's appealing. And that is, like, inethical to the dominant.

like democratic lib culture right and so it's like you can't build a responsible rogan like that's not like a thing to do but i think there was like when i look at rogan and i look at a lot of comedians who've moved into the podcast space to me what i see is what they're doing is they're just emulating late-night talk show host rogan is emulating john stewart and the idea of like John love to engage in long, deep conversations with politicians, with authors, with actors as well. There's no network that wanted to give that person a late-night talk show. And so then they found this space in the podcast world where they could be their own version of the Daily Show or the Tonight Show or whatever they wanted to do. And so I think to some degree that Rogan existed, it's just,

just that the appetite for it in the same way that the appetite for right-wing radio always surpassed the appetite for... That's a good comparison. Yeah, for left-leaning or progressive radio. So the question is, like, how can you reach those people? And I don't know, I'm open to other ideas besides going on those programs and, like, demonstrating that we care about people having health care. You know, I also, I like entrepreneurship, actually.

I think, you know, building businesses is great. And, like, I'm chill. I can talk about sports. So, like, I just, I don't know what the other solution is besides doing that, because I think that right now, those folks on those platforms are getting the impression that everybody's like, you're bad, you're bad, we're ragging our fingers at you. You have a bad opinion and you're bad. And so then, obviously, that they're going to vote Trump because they want a big, fucking middle finger into all the people that are pointing their finger and saying, you're bad. Right. But how much of that is we're trying to meet this base where they're at, hoping that we can appeal to.

to an empathy that historically we just haven't seen versus, I don't know, if we put our energy into saying like, okay, well, what if that energy is just put into making our target electorate their lives better? Like, what if we say, like, okay, let's just put our energy into, like, let's build the fuck up out of those public schools out of, like, and is there something of, like, oh, when you're looking across the fence and you can actually tangibly see, okay, we've made life better for women, we've made life better

for people of color, for LGBTQ people. So here's my pushback on that. Didn't, wasn't that the theory of Bidenism? Like, didn't Biden do that? Like, kind of. Like, people's lives are getting better. I mean, things aren't great. I want to, I should mention the word inflation here, right?

So when we're talking about what people can feel, like what is a tension if not a mechanism through which you actually feel something and have to think about something. And it turned out that it's really hard to break through about pretty much everything, except for a couple of monocultural concepts, one of which might be, hey, it's the American character, Donald Trump. We all have a view of him, even if it's radically different. Right. The other one is prices have been going up. Right. And when you talk about how the DNC and the Democratic Party feels, I think it feels like the embodiment of the institution, of the system,

of incumbency. Yes. And so I want to connect it to inflation just in the sense of, of course, there's also this larger, broader global trend of post-pandemic inflation

has been a thing across all of these governments, all these societies, and all of these incumbent parties have been suffering huge and seemingly irrefutable losses because they happen to be the party in charge of the thing people can feel

when they're not paying attention to, the persuasive arguments we're trying to make on podcasts. I don't go about to you, but I think that's probably true, and maybe that's just a nothing-matter situation. And we're all just fucking sitting around here, like, micro-analizing something that was global forces and it was bad fucking luck and we're in hell.

And it's just the bad luck happened to work out for Donald Trump again. So it's possible that's that. But just really quick to your point about, like, improving people's lives. So, like, for example, they built manufacturing plants in a lot of, like, red America, right? Like, they didn't do the thing of, oh, we're just going to, you know, give out federal money to California and to blue areas, right? It's like, no, like, we're going to build plants and build communities back up in places like Springfield. Right?

Like, we're to invest in these communities. And the people in the communities, like, the feedback was like, no, man. Like, no thanks. Like, I'm kind of, I'm mad that the new jobs that came into town actually brought Haitians with them. And they might be eating the dogs. And the cats. Yeah. And the goats and the ducks from the pond.

And so, like, I'm out. I'm going for Trump. Right? So I guess that's my question. Is there actually evidence that tangibly helping people's lives would have made a difference? Yeah, I don't know. This is the thing I don't know. And sort of to your point.

I just remark upon that sentence. Because we all agree we don't know whether tangibly helping people's lives makes a difference. Here's another theory I've just been noodling on the last 48 hours. It's like, can people be happy in the phone area, in the social? media era, like, or not happy, but satisfied, right? You know, because there's a way to look at the last four years, which is like, inflation was deeply annoying. And I get it. And particularly for people whose incomes were flat, I know it was really hard, right? But like, also there are other parts of society, there were plenty of Trump people voting for plenty of the 70 some odd million people

that, when the final account comes in, voted for Trump, plenty of them are doing pretty well. You know, they have boats, they do parades, they got the flagpole. So some of them were hurt by inflation. Yeah, they have boat parades, actually. And so, but the question is then, besides that, like, things are, like, basically good. I mean, at least in a historical perspective, I mean, like, is everybody pissed because inflation, or is everybody pissed because, like, in the little device, in the little box of screams, you know, like, you're constantly seeing bad news constantly put in front of your face rather than just saying it once at night during the nightly news. And so, like, maybe the establishment or whatever, whoever's in charge, like, people can never be

happy with it. Well, and how much of that, as well, though, is a battle between nostalgia versus what could be. It's so much harder to get people to imagine what could be and what the, and potential, but it's a hell of a lot easier to get them to kind of remember and look fondly at the past and this idea of nostalgia. And I think you see it, not just in the Republican Party. I think you see it across the board where people say, you know, things seemed so much easier back then. And it's very easy to cherry pick what those things were.

And I think the Trump campaign has done a really good job on preying on that sort of nostalgia, that nostalgia muscle that we have. And that's so, I feel like that is so much easier than the idea. of, hey, can I get you to imagine what could be? And unverdened by what has been. Yes, yeah. I should write that down. I think we just made a pillow.

We should cross-stitch that into a pillow. This one will work. Yeah, and sell that at Target. And I think we're on to something here. But yeah, I don't know. I think that aspect, because even when I think about somebody like Trump and where Trump is successful is also the fact that he has been around for so long

and that he can speak to some of that nostalgia in a way where it's that thing of he's been referenced in songs and he's in movies and he's been around. You know him. We all do literally have experience with him at this point. Yeah, in a weird way, I think about... I even think about this with Mitt Romney where when I was making problem areas,

I got really fascinated going through old life magazines. And I remember going through a Life magazine because we were focusing on education. And I was going through, and there was an article about George Romney. And in it, there is like a whole paragraph about 12-year-old Mitt Romney. And there are photos of Mitt Romney.

And if you were someone who was reading Life magazine, one, you're aware of George Romney. but Mitt Romney is already getting, he's burrowing into your brain. He is the, you know, he's one of Kanye's children. You're already getting familiar with him. And I think there's an element when I'm reading that and seeing that where I was like, oh, that was probably very helpful that you saw this person at 12. Then when they started to run for public office, it's, oh, right, that kid.

Yeah, he's not my neighbor kid, but he is that kid that I saw and I've watched him grow up. And I think Trump, nostalgic minor Democratic celebrity could we put up in 2028 to save the country. Yeah, this is a good question. Who's out there? And can we invent magazines again? Yes, can we get magazines? And yes, who will be our, yeah, is it the kid for Mad Men? I don't know.

I feel like it needs to be a boy. Sorry. I'm sorry. I mean, I'd be happy for it to be a woman. I feel like we should roll with a boy next time. We need a boy. Yeah. Yeah, is it Canon Curry?

Do we put our eggs in the cannon curry basket? I don't know. His name is canon. That feels like you're going to get a lot of war hawks that are like, I'll vote for cannon. Yeah. Strong. Yeah.

Oh, he's strong. Yeah. We're sort of circling this larger, truly, and I say this a lot. So drink, if you're playing along at home, existential question of like who influences America anymore. And the thing about Trump, the thing that I, Tim, am. constantly struggling with that I'm frustrated by is that people, I don't think, are paying enough attention to the absolute suicide squad of people, of psychopaths around him at this point.

That should be persuasive. And I bring it to you because the thing you brought us is something that you happen to be a character in, actually. You're teaching civics. You know, you're out of prison. I wonder if you're a reformed looking back on the last January 6th and the fact that you incited a mob. That would be, that would be, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, if, if you, if you look at what we said is that as the state's requested, seven states requested, a, seven states requested, a full, a full review, this is cause vice president Pence didn't handle it correctly.

This is cause vice president of Pence did not handle it correctly. No, no, no, no, no, absolutely no change for the simple reason is, is that we should have had a review as requested by the states for all seven states of that time. Tim, thank you very much. One question at a time. Okay. But, Tim, if you want to continue to make speeches, it's good television. I don't want to talk about personal conversations.

That was Bannon's post-jail press conference. Great. It was on the, I believe, 12th floor, 12 or 17 are both in my head, a high floor at the Park Avenue Lowe's. So, you know, the type of place to live. a working man goes when they get out of prison to hold the press clothes and his barbore coat and his mane of silver hair and so he held a press conference there i've interviewed bannon several times

as you could tell for people watching this little smirk on his face he enjoys sparring with people he enjoys sparring with me like the other questions after me it was like hey steve i'm from like magapatriate dot org and i was wondering do you think mr trump's going to win new york you know what i mean like and and bannon for all of his flaws, you know, he likes to have his brain muscles move. He'd rather, he'd rather be challenged in spar than deal with the lunatics around him. But to your point about, what did you call it, the suicide squad? Yeah, the lunatics, like the people at this fucking press conference who are now about to be running our government, well, who are about to be dismantling our government, actually, they,

like Bannon is was the most normal and probably the smartest person in the room by like a mile so if you thought it was like weird pirate like triple shirt vibe is like you know a basement the bath salts he had apparently in his house is think that's strange like the dudes around him I mean it is like you're in a I felt like I was in a movie with like a fake eastern European country and like this vengali for the autocrat gets out of jail and it's like I've got the one I'm man here and I've got like an actual monkey paw I've got like two hot blonde chicks and I got minions five yeah and it was the people around in the room among others were Jeff Clark the you might remember him if you're really online as the guy that tried to help with Trump's coup who is in the Justice Department and when the feds went to raid his house he was pictured outside in his undies Mike Davis is there he tweets

insanely about how people are going to go into the gulag and how he wants to be the vice roy of D.C. You had the New York Young Republican Club, which has gone very MAGA. A couple of the bros from that were there. A couple of former mainstream media reporters who had sexual assault issues that have now recaptured themselves

as MAGA reporters are there. Who are the people that are opting in at that point before Trump had won again? So I want to make this point. It's like post-January 6th pre-Trump winning again. And you're like, I want to be, I want to roll with that crew. Right.

Like, think about the type of person that attracts. And I want, the reason I want to just stay on this for a bit is because before these people are also mainstreamed under the skirt of Donald Trump, I want to acknowledge that from a purely just anthropological, objective level, these people are freaks. Dozens upon dozens of them in his cabinet all say. we would never work for or vote for him again, which speaks to how good he is actually at hiring people. And so now he's going to the bench, the fourth stringers of this movement. I feel like that's the part of it that is even more terrifying is, yeah, the notion that there are

people who already worked for him who are like, no, we can't do this again. And that it was still not enough to both convince voters to say, okay, he's maybe not a good CEO of a country, which countries don't need CEOs. And it feels, and even just that, the idea that, like, you don't want someone to run a country like a business. A business gets run where you, you are always looking to slash the bottom line. You are not thinking humanely. You are thinking profit-wise. And maybe that all circles back but the idea that you have people who worked for him who came away feeling like yeah that wasn't the most humane way to do this shit uh and people and then new people have jumped on and said hell yeah yeah yeah no actually i was into that like the we the worst

parts of trum like the people that are me around now are like the the the worst they're not like the but oh i wish i wish you know he didn't send the mean tweets right you know it's not those people The people that are going into work from now are like, hell yeah, the mean tweets. Hell yeah, January 6th. Hell yeah, mass deportations. That's what I'm signing up for. Right. And in fact, I want to strike my characterization of freaks from the record, because I don't

think that actually captures what I'm talking about. I'm talking about scammers. Yeah. Right. This is like people for whom corruption is the light that a moth should go towards. These are people who are opportunists without any semblance of shame. There are so many characters where I just need people to understand, I guess, that Tucker Carlson, just in case you're wondering what he's talking about now, he's talking about this.

Do you think that there are deeper forces at play here? Is this more than just Steve Bannon and Tucker Carlson and Elon Musk and a bunch of guys running around talking about in this material world, you know, politics and being Democrats and taking on the intelligence. intelligence, legal, financial apparatus. Is there something deeper going on here? So not only is the battle in the unseen world, not only is it part of what we're seeing, it is actually what we're saying. We're seeing the physical manifestations of something that's been going on for eternity. But yeah, no, I was on February 20th, 20th, 2003. I was attacked in my bed by a spiritual being and clawed and left bleeding and scarred.

again, this war between forces that we can't see, but that has been ongoing and has been, in fact, described by every culture since the beginning, every culture that we know about has described this battle. And in fact, it's been the basis of every religion. It's certainly the basis of Christianity, which I think is true, by the way, factually speaking, Christianity is true. But even if you don't, I think you can acknowledge that we're the only culture that hasn't been really absorbed in thinking and talking about this. Not since we dropped the atomic bomb in Nagasaki, the second one in August of 1945. and decided that we were gods and the god himself no longer existed.

Since then, we have been a secular society, and that's why we're now being destroyed, in my view. If you're making the case that abortion is an affirmative good, you are evil, you're practicing child sacrifice. Worshiping abortion, the killing of kids, not as something that needs to happen, unfortunately, but is something that is good, that's pro-abortion. You know, people, and I have to say, I'm sure I'll be attacked for things, but I really believe it.

People are like, oh, well, we had another hurricane must be global warming. No, it's probably abortion, actually. Just being honest. You can't do that. You can't kill children on purpose, knowing that you're doing that in exchange for power, freedom, or happiness, whatever you think you're getting in return.

You can't participate in human sacrifice without consequences. I feel like we just need to really drill down on the part where he says he was attacked by a demon and was bad. I think in this clip he says spiritual being. In a different interview, he does say demon. The word demon is used. Yes, yes, yes.

He is very clear that he's in a bed. with four dogs and his wife, and he wakes up with claw marks underneath his arms, and the only explanation is that, and this is not a poetic description, a literal demon has attacked Tucker Carlson. It was bad.

Physically mauled. And his spiritual attack by a demon? Yeah, by a demon. The dogs would probably have been the number one culprit out of gone, too. Dogs don't have claws. Yeah, four dogs in the bed. No, don't believe.

marks, I would have probably gone to the dogs on that theory. Demon is an alternate case. But, you know, to me, like, again, that, whenever you think about that clip and some people believe in heaven and hell and demons and angels, and that's fine. But, like, these are the, this is the inner circle. That's the respectable one. That's the fucking inner circle up there. Like, all that shit is talking about global warming is caused by abortion and, like, we're

in a spiritual battle. and the left is evil and the left are demons and the demons are attacking me because they're mad that I've gone after the left like that guy was very influential on picking the vice president right when Trump was like finally deciding about his VP right he had

JD and then there were like two boring old school Republican white guy well Doug Bergam one white guy and then Marco Rubio the Cuban guy and from Dan's buddy yeah and Tucker calls Trump and he's like if you pick Rubio or Bergam, the neocon deep state establishment that wants war and that hates you and that is part of that demonic left wing force that's them, they will kill you because then Rubio will be able to take

over and the whatever, the military industrial complex and the globalists and all that will take over. And like Tucker said that to do, that was not like on Tucker's podcast. Like, that was a private conversation between Tucker and Trump that was later leaked to a reporter. And to me, it's like, I mean, these guys are deep in the sauce. Yeah. And they're about to be running everything. The corruption is going to be, I think, way worse this time than the last time, in part because, you know, I guess there's a chance. Trump will try to stay.

But most people around him will consider, like, this is the last time at the piggy bank, you know. So, like, I'm going to go in hard. and I think that he won this time with the help of Elon and a lot of these very rich oligarchs in a way that wasn't really true last time actually like the billionaire class was pretty much unanimously against Trump in 2016 and he won anyway. Except for Teal, right?

Yeah, teal, right? Yeah. So this time there's going to be a lot more piggies at the trough, right? Yeah, people for whom he is a vessel to accomplish their own goals. Yeah, right. And he'll be 82 at the end of it, so it'll be a lot more room for people to maneuver. And so, and I think Trump will think will then Trump family and everybody, all of them will see this as their last opportunity. So look, there's plenty of corruption last time, but I just think that like the straight old school like machine city, you know, mayor daily type,

like bag, paper bag type corruption. Like I think we're going to see a lot more of this time. I think there's a certain group of people that aren't going to be cool with that, right? Again, I think sometimes we like, we do pejorative at the people that are listening. listening to Theo and Knuck Boys and all that stuff. And like, some of those people are like, ideologically have taken the red pill and are far right. And some of them are just like guys who are like, fuck the establishment, fuck the people, fuck the mainstream.

And like those people, I think, are way more getable with focusing on the Trump corruption stories and how he screws you over and how he's, and how he's part of the establishment rather than the stories about like Trump made fun of Arnold, or like Trump talked about Arnold Palmer's huge cuck and like that's unpresidential. Right. And so to me in my mind, like that's something that I'm going to try to pivot my energy towards in this next time because I think it might be more effective. Also, nothing might matter, right? But I'm just saying like it feels like it could potentially.

What we might want to consider, actually, is running Joe Biden again. Can we try that? Do you think that we can get more Biden in the next election cycle? Hunter. Ah. Hunter. You know, you know. The Maga Bros. kind of like Hunter.

You know who quietly might love a knellk boy and vice versa? Hunter. Is Hunter Biden. I think we should think about running. So far the best idea I've heard on this podcast for 2020. It's Hunter. Would you get behind a Hunter of a Biden in 2020-8 run? Or is that a little too?

I mean, at this point, I don't know. I feel like you're open to it, though. Well, no. I mean, I have, I have, I technically have Grenadian citizenship. So I'm kind of like, is this, do I just try to create my own, my own weird fiefdom down there? And do I try to become the Trump of Grenada? I would, I'm into, that's just an interesting idea. Because could I, do you need an advisor?

I do. I do. Yeah, no, I would, I need a whole, I need a, this is a, this is a ground up bill. So. Can I get like a military appellettes? Oh, sure. As Grenadian Trump's, a secretary of sports. Yes, as grump, yeah.

I'm just going to go, I'm going to change my name to Ronald Grump and run. I think I'd look good. What are the rules? How are gay? Is gay marriage legal in Grenada? Under Grump's administration? Yeah, under Grump's administration, yeah.

Yeah, under the grump administration. Socially liberal. I'm not seeing a lot of holes here. Yeah, yeah. Super into crypto. I do like the ring of grump coin. This is all, yeah. We talked about this a little bit, but where, because now I feel like this, this is dovetailing, and you mentioned Elon Musk, and even just in thinking about, like, there is the corruption that is, that I feel like we are going to see as far as, like, the financial corruption.

But I also feel like there is a sort of human capital corruption that we maybe don't talk about as much, where I feel like for a lot of these folks, they view a certain amount of the population as just kind of disposable. And so I look at something like what Elon Musk's influence in a Trump administration is going to be and what the human cost of that is going to be as Trump has said, oh, I would let him do what he did to Twitter to, you know, government bureaucracy and let him take a, you know, take the rest. red pen to that, with no regard for, okay, we will slash this department, and then that means these hundreds of people are out of work. I am not concerned with how to employ them.

No, they enjoy that actually. It's not just that they're not concerned. It's like, hell yeah, learn to code. Right, yes. Yeah. If at best, at best learn to code. But also, I don't care if you don't. And so I think there is that element of it that I'm just like, oh, that's the other part of this, which is, okay, they will slash a budget. Even when I think about somebody like Musk talking about, when he was initially talking about going to Mars and Mars colonization, I feel like one of the things that often got forgotten in that conversation was him very openly saying, the first generations of people who go there will die very quickly.

It's dangerous. It's uncomfortable. It's a long journey. You might not come back alive. But it's a glorious adventure, and it'll be an amazing experience. And your name will go in history. Yes, you might die.

It's going to be uncomfortable. And we probably won't have good food. Yeah, that's fine. They're going to die. As I sort of make peace with the fact that, oh, Elon Musk will be the most powerful private citizen in the history of America. By far, by the way.

I am now afraid of the way in which I do believe that Elon Musk himself is somebody with a vision and a multi-planetary, multi-generational plan. There are lots of people that we've described who aren't actually planners who are, in fact, the Ramora Fish at a Steve Bannon press conference. Elon Musk is playing chess, and that's, that's, that's, that's good. Is it chess or is it hungry, hungry hippos? because it feels a little bit like hungry hungry hippos to me honestly more than chess i feel like we're we're giving him a little too much credit um or the little pearl balls yeah yeah he's the hippo yeah he's the hippo he's all four hippos yeah but i also this this you asked me to bring something

and something that i am reminded of is a book that i read some years ago called the space merchants and it's an old pulp science fiction book. And not too long ago, I listened to this podcast that Jill Lepore did called The Evening Rocket. And it was a really fascinating podcast. And the podcast kind of looks at Elon Musk through the science fiction that he is a fan of.

And as it happens, this was a book I found just like someone was selling it on the sidewalk in Manhattan. And I was just bored and I bought it for like, three bucks. This book is a book that is beloved by him. It's a book that's beloved by Jeff Bezos. The setting of this book is a sort of future dystopia where we don't have states as they exist anymore. States have now been carved up to countries. And so there's no longer the senator from Missouri. It is now the senator from Dow Chemical, the senator from 3M. And, and, you know, and And the other part of this is perhaps the biggest industry in this society is advertising.

And it's advertising to just keep a consumer class that is just buying things and is totally blinded to the fact that the country is being run by corporations. And this book is, I feel like when you're saying like, oh, this guy's playing chess, it kind of feels like, no, he's just cribbing this book that is a science fiction book where I don't know that he finished reading the book, which is by the end of the book, one of these ad agents who had been sort of red-pilled into this world gets radicalized and realizes, oh, wait a minute, we're all like, I need a fight against this, and then uses his energy to try to fight against this thing,

which I feel like it's at that point that perhaps Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos fell asleep before. And they were like, yeah, that book was good. Let's, yeah, I want to be the space merchant. Yeah, I should be clear. I'm not sure Elon Musk is good at chess. He's definitely attempting to play it. At the end of every episode, Pablo Torre finds out a show where we find stuff out,

we go around the table and we say what we found out today. Wyatt, do you want to start us off? What did you find out? I mean, I guess I found out a couple things. perhaps the best thing I found out is that the grump administration it's it's beginning we're laying the groundwork yeah we're going to make Grenada grump again yeah um so that I'm excited by beyond that uh yeah I nothing hopeful I don't I guess I don't know if I found this out but uh you've made me think about this more deeply than I have since Tuesday night does my brain just

won't turn off. Like, we all knew that, like, the democratization of everything was created, was crumbling all of these established institutions, right? And, like, there is, in some ways, it's like, good. Like, you mentioned Sports Illustrated. It's earlier. It's like, Sports Illustrated is dead. And now I'm here. Yeah, yeah. We've replaced it with something better and more authentic and, like, closer to the people, right? And, you know, you could do this across, like, a million, a million verticals, right? And I, and I knew that was happening in politics. The malicious forces, took advantage of that in a much more effective way. What I found out today is that Donald Trump is mainstream media.

There is no more mainstream character than that guy, and all of these downstream effects follow from that. And so what we really need, we're going to save, you know, the institution that is America, democracy, which is a deeply unpopular cause, it turns out, relative to expectation, is that you need someone who is both an institutionalist but also a revolutionary, someone who can speak to a broad, it turns out, almost startlingly racially diverse coalition of Hispanics and all of the others that are now trending.

I'm sorry, you can't let your people up the hook. No, no, no, we got folded into the other category in every chart that I saw. We're in the other thing. You can't prove that we're in there. We need someone who can be all of these things who is familiar with sparring against conservative influencers on podcasts. And so I just want to say, I salute Democratic nominee Stephen A. Smith. Oh, God. S-A-S. Okay.

Hunter Biden or Stephen A. Why not both? This has been Pablo Torre finds out a Metal Arc Media production. And we are produced by Walter Averoma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lohman, Rob McCray, Rachel Miller-Howard, Ethan Schreier, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Chris Tumenello, and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems, our sound designed by NGW Post,

our theme song, as always, by John Bravo, and we will talk to you next time.