Pablo Torre Finds Out - How Shane Battier Learned to Lead, and Shut the F*** Up (PTFO Vault)

Episode Date: December 30, 2025

LeBron called him the smartest hooper alive. Coach K called him an alien. Obama called him for a Hall-of-Fame pickup game (and a historic BBQ). But two-time NBA champion Shane Battier has been measuring the immeasurable inflection points of his career all along — from growing up "mixed, tall and poor"; to puking at Duke, guarding Kobe and witnessing LeBron's GOAT-defining game; to failing at ESPN and building a cabinet of relationships… including his therapist. Pablo cracks open the brain of the legend known as Lego, to find out if he really is human after all. Plus: Patrennessy, Laptop magazine and karaoke. Lots of karaoke.(This episode originally aired June 5, 2025.)• Subscribe to Pablo Torre Finds Out on YouTube for more greatest hits• Subscribe to Pablo's newsletter for exclusive access, documents and invites Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, it's me, Pablo. So we've done, doing the math, 327 episodes of Pablo Torre finds out since we launched in September, 2023. And it is the end of 2025. And I could not be prouder of our tiny, little and extremely overworked newsroom that has created this bizarre sports news magazine show

that is television, but also obviously an audio. first podcast because we've punched above our weight, I think, especially this year. But the stuff that we did before, the previous, you know, hundreds of episodes, we have some favorites that we are now concerned that you maybe have not heard yet or maybe don't realize or even better when you listen to it a second time. And so during the holiday break, we're bringing you our favorites from the PTFO Vault. And we also have a newsletter, by the way, www.pablo.show where I'll be doing some stuff over the holiday break, especially. Please subscribe and support our approach to independent sports journalism. But most of all, thank you. Thank you for making this show

not just a weird experiment, but a community of people who support the kind of mission that we're on to hold to account extraordinarily rich and powerful people while also taste testing, you know, athlete branded weed. We contain multitudes, as does our vault. Please enjoy. Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is. Right after this ad. I love when a guest has a notebook. I do.

I feel like such a boomer. I mean, I'm getting old. I'm 46 years old. I forget things. But if I write it down, I have notebooks upon notebooks of just maxims and quotes. If I put it in my phone, it's gone. You have the good kind of pen, too, by the way. That thin.

Oh. the muji pen not a man. That's right. That's veteran savvy. The finer things in life. But I wonder if you've used that muji pen to write down at any point. The quote I wanted to actually start with, which is of course from Mike Shostoevsky,

Coach Kay, head coach of your Duke Blue Doubles, who said this, quote, Shane was an alien. I wanted at the end of his career to crack his head open and see if he was really human. End quote. I think that

a compliment. Pablo, I was psycho. I was a psychotic, neurotic person in my time at Duke. When Coach K. recruited me, I was part of a very talented recruiting class, number one class in the country, Elton Brand, William Avery, right? Chris Burgess. I grew up watching you guys. Right? And we were going to a team that had, you know, at the time, 10 McDonald's All-Americans. We had 10, 10, which is crazy. So you're saying like, why would you go to a team that has 10 McDonald's All-Americans? And Coach K, people always ask me, like, what's so great about Coach K? Coach K can peer into your soul and know what button to push.

Finding the heart of the team is huge. I call it a spirit. He is a different spirit. Once we get him in our program, I have to give him some more latitude where he feels comfortable and instinctively following that spirit. And he knew this when I was in high school. So he came into my living room and he said, you know, hey, Shane, I'm not going to promise you playing time.

I'm not going to promise you shots. I'll promise you one thing. The opportunity to earn playing time every single day. And if you're good enough to play. So he had me hook, line of sinker. And I'm like, I'm going to show you. I'm going to show you. And I'm going to make you play me.

You're going to stab people's eyeballs with that fine. ballpoint muji pen. I would. I would have. I would have. I used to throw up before every game. Every game? Every game.

My freshman year, I started. And literally, I'm going on to the jump ball circle. I'm so anxious. I want to play well, so bad. I would run back to the bench, grab a gatorie towel, throw up in it, throw it back out,

and then they toss the ball. And just to be extra clear about this, Shane Batier, barfing his ambitions into a towel before every game, as a 6'8 Duke freshman was a thing that pretty much everybody who cared about him

found intensely unsettling, I am told. And this was true of his college girlfriend, who was now his wife, and it was true of then Duke assistant coach, Quinn Snyder, who was now the head coach

of the Atlanta Hawks. Although, there was one notable exception. I think Coach Kay loved it because he's like, it matters to him, he cares. But Quincylinder was like, this is not healthy.

You cannot do this. And so he literally would like breathe with me. Breathe. Yeah, breathe. He's like Shane, breathe. Breathe. Breathe. But when it comes to Barf, the first thing that I personally think about when I think

about Shane, whose brain, by the way, not unlike Coach K, I also plan to just crack open here, is a different liquid. And it dates back to the first time that I ever met Shane. which was at a bar during the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference about maybe a decade ago, which would be around sometime after he played pickup with Barack Obama, which we'll discuss, and probably also around when he was just winning championships

with LeBron James, who would call Shane, quote, the number one smartest basketball player and person I've been around. End quote. But that night, during that conference, Shane Badiere introduced me to something else. It's a magical mixture of alcohol

that was introduced to me by my teammate in Miami, Greg Oden, who learned this drink from Beast Mode himself, which is totally on brand, and that drink is called Petrenacy. And what I found out that, right, is that Patrenacy is exactly what you think it is, and exactly what Marshawn

apparently envisioned. Half Patron, half Hennessy. Which is why I also found out that drinking Petrennessy made me feel like Shane Battye during his freshman year. And so we were bonded from that moment on. I mean, you look at me, I look at you,

and the first thought is Petrennessy. And just to clarify here, by the way, I did not grow up dreaming of a bond with this man. As I said, I grew up watching Shane take charges, slap floors, become a champion at Duke, and the national player of the year, and a three-time defensive player of the year. But he went to Duke. And after the Memphis Grizzlies, the god-awful Memphis Grizzlies,

drafted Shane sixth overall in 2001, I mostly forgot about him. I think most people did. But in 2009, no less than Michael Lewis wrote a seminal article about Shane Badiye for the New York Times magazine. And this article had an unforgettable headline, the No Stats All-Star. Because Shane, at this point, was a 30-year-old glue guy, a nerdy glue guy, grinding away for the Houston Rockets. And what Michael Lewis basically did was make the case for why this relatively minor. character who had this vomitously maniacal devotion to defense to frustrating the most unstoppable scores in the world actually represented the modern evolution of sports culture writ large

Shane was analytical he avoided taking two-point shots because of their inefficiency and also when the story first came out I had mixed emotions I'm not going to lie well you see the headline. Yeah. It's like, it's, it's the biggest, like, backhanded compliment you can get. You know, it's, it's, it's Michael Lewis. So, like, Michael, you know, Mr. Moneyball. That article has generated, you know, a lot of money for me over the years. You know, my speaking career and podcast. He's so, like, I, it was my opus and I would not be here without Michael. And so at the time, when you're, you know, I was still, what, probably eight years into my career, you know, I still thought I was a really good player. and more than just like a glue guy.

But now I love it. And now I love it. That's my reputation. That was always authentically who I was. Right. So like Lewis hit it right in the head. That's how I was from kindergarten all the way to my last day in the NBA. So I'm very proud of that moniker.

It's super nerdy. But I'm nerdy. So it's all good. The embedded sort of premise of the no stats All-Star is that in ways that cannot be actually quantified. but can be begun to be detected by the most advanced metrics. So it's really the advanced math all-star, more than it is the no-stats all-star.

Yeah, yeah, good one. I want to just quote the thing about you that Daryl, who is now, of course, president of the 76ers, a fellow PTFO guest, as is Michael Lewis. This is all very incestuous. I want to just quote, Daryl says, quote, I call him Lego. When he's on the court, all the pieces start to fit together,

and everything that leads to winning that you can get to through intellect instead of innate ability, Shane excels in. I'll bet he's in the hundredth percentile of every category. So again, familiar, compliment, insult, sort of like layer cake. Yeah. Instead of inatability, you know. There was something that you were great at that was kind of ineffable. Give us the sort of like the gallery of people that Shane Badiere had to puke into his towel to sort of contemplate defending. House of Horrors. And the best thing that happened to me in my rookie year was I played two guard. So here I am out there. I'm guarding Iverson.

I'm guarding Paul Pierce. I'm guarding Ray Allen. I'm guarding Kobe. The ball comes in. Cody's got it. Above the three point line, taking a little bit of time. One dribble pull-up. And they kicked my ass, my rookie year.

But I learned, you know, I learned so much. I learned so much. I learned angles. I learned how to use my height. I learned how to be physical, and that was the best instructor for me. And so, look, I took a great pride in catching all those guys. Carmelo. It's Carmelo against Batea.

This defense has been destroyed. Batti's defense that is against Bermelo. K.D. Drives on Badié, throws it down. Kevin Duran. You name it. I played against the greatest players of my generation, and I miss that anxiety. All right, Garden Kobe Bryant is fucking scary.

I never will forget the feeling of getting on the bus, the Marina del Rey Ritz. And it's like a 45-minute ride at Staples Center. I'm just thinking to myself, shit, this guy's trying to embarrass me. Like, I know, like, he's lathered right now. And he wants to score 80 points on me tonight. Like, and so, like, that anxiety was real, right? And so I call it productive paranoia. Instead of being, like, paralyzing, I use that to be like, man, I better know everything about Kobe that there is to know about him.

And so that like that like I tried to learn and threw myself in the data analytics and and just learn Kobe better than Kobe knew himself. On Kobe Bryant following the game plan and strategy contested every shot not giving him a wide open look fighting through screens you talk about when he goes up you go up as a defender. You want an outstanding job of not surrendering an inch shame bad and says hey I stay the course and it allowed me to stay in the game and I understood okay, I'm not going to stop these guys, but I can be a human yellow light and slow him down a little bit, and that was my only goal.

Just be the human yellow light. The whole thing of like, I'm going to slow you down, but I know I'm not going to stop you. Yeah. Right? When it came to why these guys, as much as they would talk about how,

you know, we're not afraid of shame badier. Yeah. Does it feel different facing this team with Batier gone? You guys had a lot of classic matchups throughout the years? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess. I guess. The stats actually indicate, like, yo, the, you, you slowed down.

I wasn't bad. You slowed down at the yellow light? As it turned out, it turned out, it wasn't half bad. Is there an element of this that is teachable? Yeah, because I had the answer to the test before I took it. Like, in the NBA, everyone overestimates how good of a 20-foot jump shooter they are. A 20-foot jump shot is a really hard shot to shoot, especially if you dribble once. It's like a 40% shot.

That's a tough shot. And people will argue with me, no, no, it's part of the game. You can't. No, that is a hard shot for even the best player, unless your name is Steph Curry or Kevin Durant. All right, Devin Booker. And the one thing that, you know, I was able to do that a lot of people can't do. I detached myself from the outcome. I didn't care.

I didn't care if a guy made a shot or not. I really didn't. I cared where they took that shot. And I knew if they took the shot in the wrong area, in the area where they struggled the most, given enough time, sample size, they would beat themselves. And so I just had to sort of lead them to that conclusion. And so you can teach somebody kind of the squares in the court where it's just hard to make a shot. A two over Batti. Rebound by Bynum. Relentless pressure. He's going to put that on you every single possession. And you know what? You've got to give

Shane Batti a lot of credit. When you look back at how you got to be this way, that's the part where I'm like, I don't know if you can really teach that. Look, I grew up in a middle-class part of Detroit. All right, I was very poor. You know, the roof leaked when it rained. I remember what a government cheese sandwich tasted like. I had patches on my jeans and all my clothes. Like, we had, like, no money.

You know, I learned the phrase, Rob Peter to pay Paul, like, when I was in kindergarten, right? We were very, very poor. I was the only kid in town that I had a black dad and a white mom. So in an elementary school of 500 kids, I was the only black kids. I got a pick on picture day everyone else got a comb. Okay, and Martin Luther King Day, I was expected to know everything about black culture from the dawn of civilization.

And I was a foot taller than everybody else. Okay, so I was the kid who had always had to carry a birth certificate with him at the little league game. So, like, I was an outcast wherever I went. So I was mixed tall and poor. The only place I really felt at home was at recess. And playing kickball and playing dodgeball, and playing basketball and baseball, all the sports.

And I realized, like, when I helped my friends win, like I'm not I'm no longer the poor kid the mixed kid the tall kid all right I'm just a kid who helped my friends win so I didn't I didn't care like about what I did or how I looked all I cared about is did we win and did I help my my friends win so I'm gonna I'm gonna do whatever it takes do whatever it takes to make sure my friends look good and that we win I took that lesson from kindergarten so it was born out of desperation was born out of just I want to be loved I want to be accepted. And that's what put the dog in me to just be just intense and paranoid and all those things.

I find that a big learning that people hopefully have had about the nerd as a creature in American life is that the nerd can be among the most competitive people that you've ever imagined. Oh, yeah. The guy who, and again, this is me, Jack checking as a journalist, the guy who had a subscription to laptop magazine? Yeah, I'm a gadget whore. But, you know... There was a magazine called Laptop magazine?

I mean, this is just depth that I... I'm obviously somebody who is... This is a judgment-free zone, but I didn't know there was a laptop fucking magazine. We share an insatiable curiosity. Yes. And now that, like, knowing your story, that was my secret power. I was so scared that the answer is out there. I just haven't found it yet.

And so, yeah, I subscribed to a laptop magazine because they had all these new gadgets come out and I said, oh, shit, like, maybe this could be the answer to, like, to change my life, right? Again, that was my superpower in the NBA. Like, I don't know how to guard Kobe Bryant. Like, well, maybe if I learn this about him, like, it'll help me. Now, but the whole idea of, like, winning over a room, right?

Which is embedded in the premise of culture, which is to say that, like, it needs buy-in. Yep. You need to convert people to the thing that you revere. Yep. How hard was that for you in these locker rooms? When I go to the Grizzlies, they had the lowest winning percentage of the four North American professional sports leagues. Okay?

They had a 20 winning percentage. That's a good stat. They won one out of every five games in the history of their franchise. Okay. So you talk about a franchise that had like no idea how to win. This is the Grizzlies. So we lose our first 10 games. We're on a bad team.

I think we're like 2 and 15. Their style has not been good. They have stumbled along the way. They have not had their productivity out of their scores. They have been passive at the point. And they've lost 11 in a row. A lot of work to be done here in Memphis. We call like the most over-hyped, overused term in pro sports,

the players-only locker room meeting. Oh, God. It's the worst. I've been fascinated by this ritual. Okay, so explain. For those not familiar with why this is a thing, please explain the thing. So a player's only meeting only happens when you're, you know, you're getting heat from the media. The fans are on you.

All right, look, you know, you're not playing well. Okay. So, you know, all the movies, you know, say, you know, the captains, the veterans, they call a player's only meeting. we're going to air our grievances, and we're going to have a kumbaya moment, and that's going to propel us to better performance, okay? And so during this particular locker room meeting, you know, here I am, you know, full of righteousness coming from Duke, the coach K-Way. Yep.

And I'm the first one to stand up, and I say, you know, I got to be honest, the veteran leadership on this team sucks. Very honest, very direct. And they said, hey, Duke boy, shut the fuck up go sit in the corner who are you and i was just like oh man i did not read the room it humbled me and i realized like man i can't come in here guns of blazing because there's there's kind of like an ethos and an accreed and kind of an unspoken locker room path you got to earn credibility and i hadn't done that to that point and so i shut my ass i went to work right

but I didn't, I didn't become cynical. I didn't become jaded. I wouldn't allow that locker room to change me. So I kept working. And a funny thing happened, like, the guys who maybe were on the fence and didn't know how to act and how to win, started to have, like, winning attitudes and, like, winning behaviors.

And all of a sudden, like, you kind of feel the locker room kind of shift a little bit. And we started to believe a little bit. And Hubey Brown comes in the next year. We start winning some games. Memphis now 20. 26 and 31 since that 0.13 storm. The team that was once an easy out now holds the key in the Western Conference playoff race.

It was pretty awesome to be part of. I'd never been part of like a culture change per se. But this is a mythical concept of like how do you change culture is a thing that every business is going to have to grapple with at some point if they meet what is more likely than not, which is failure. Yep. It's not the the rah-rah speeches, all right. is not the sayings on the wall. It's the small, subtle acts that most people don't even pay mine to. It's the unmeasurable.

It's the unmeasurable. Which is all to say that there are these inflection points in Shane Batti's life when he has had to decide whether it is time for him to take the microphone or not. And this can be a difficult political exercise. for somebody who loves karaoke, as much as Shane Badiye does, as we need to explain in a bit. But this takes us to a moment, for now, on the court,

when the human yellow light wasn't actually trying to slow down a superstar. Because it was June 2012, and Shane was playing for the Miami Heat, and the Miami Heat, for those not familiar, fetishize culture more than any. any other team in sports, as our own Ryan Cortez will gladly tell you, and it's to the point where the heat would go on to later hire Shane as an executive. But on this June evening in 2012, what Shane Batier was mostly trying to do was just not get in the way of one of his fellow

starters. The issue, however, was that LeBron James, one of the best scores ever, obviously, who was now being given the greenest possible light, had won zero titles at this point. Speaking of measurables, LeBron had joined Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosch in Miami, only to be humiliated by Dallas in the finals the year before this. And so here the heat were, in 2012, overhyped and trailing in one of the most tense Eastern Conference finals in memory,

and they were about to be eliminated by, their most hated rival. To Boston, on a sold-out TD Garden, it's game six of the Easter. They're saying, look, there's no way the heat are going to win this game. Boston with a three to two edge

and a chance to move on. Wade's double teamed as he has seen all series long. David slaying Goliath. Yes. We know if we lose game six. This is like maybe the most failed experiment. Absolutely.

Highly publicized failed experiment and there's blood on everybody's hands. Yeah. And by the way, there's just salivating from everybody who talks about sports. Because you guys are villains. You guys are Goliath. Again, that's the other key part of this is that it's what does Goliath do to save his own ass?

They drove the hearse to T.D. Bank Arena that night. But like, before that game, there wasn't like a huge R-Ras speech. It was just like, look, we's got to be ourselves. We've been through the fire. And there was a trust. What was LeBron like? because this is now, in terms of his character study. The LeBron game.

Yes. And also, like, hadn't done it. Exactly. That was the inflection point for his entire Hall of Fame career. The story of his life is so different if that game goes differently. It's so different. No one realizes that. And so, like, of anybody, LeBron knows, like, he has the most at stake.

Yes. The most. Yes. The most. And so, like, he was very calm. that day. He didn't say... He didn't puke into a towel? No, no. But like,

let me tell you what. When that motherfucker has that look, man, let's go. It's like when Adam turns into he-man. There's almost like an aura around him. We're just like, oh my gosh, this is unbelievable. He turns, old jump hook, well, go, James comes flying in and throws it down. He's got 27 first half points.

I remember watching this game. Oh. and imagining what must it be like to be around him in this moment? You didn't talk about it. You didn't look at him. You're just like, I don't want to jinx it. Here at the TD Garden. 30 in the first half, these are all second half.

The one foot step back and then the little floater as he posts up Rondo at the elbow. And then the 17-foot catch, that jab step jump shot game. And so we win the game. And you win big. We win big. By the way, like curb stomping suffocation big. Yep. Because the final score is 98 to 79.

Yep. LeBron, for the record, right? Yeah. Do you remember his that line? 45. 45 minutes, 45 points, 19 of 26. Yeah. 19 of 26.

Ridiculous. Also, by the way, 15 rebounds, thrown five assists, you know, casually. I mean, it was the greatest game I ever seen anybody play. It's a hard argument to beat. It was given the stakes, given the gravity of the situation, given like the historical implications, historical. We're going to be arguing Jordan versus LeBron forever. And this game is the reason why it's plausible.

I'm always going with LeBron for a simple reason, for simple reason. Is it because you scored eight points that game? LeBron did something twice that Jordan, I don't think, could have done once. he won two NBA titles with Shane Baddey's starting Power 4 No way! No way Jordan could have done that. As great as Jordan was, LeBron dragged me across the finish line.

The albatross had never been so heavy. And that is, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Now that we've gone through one of the glorious chapters, do you remember the most humiliated you ever felt in a league? My last year. My last year. when I was told without being told that our best chance of winning doesn't include you, Shane.

When, you know, Spos started to sit me in the fourth quarter, nothing was worse to me than sitting me in crunch time. Like, that was my identity. And it hurt me to my core, and that's when I knew I was done. I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed. And I checked out, and I was cynical. And so when I retired, I was very cynical.

And so I was sad, but I was also very cynical. What does cynicism mean at this point in your trajectory? I shut people out. I was probably battling some depression. I didn't know what depression was. I never had this feeling before. But feeling very isolated, I didn't feel anyone understood what I was going through. I felt very alone.

And I pushed people away. I pushed my wife away. I pushed my kids away. And I just was a jerk. I wasn't like doing destructive things. It wasn't like I was drinking. every nighter. But I was, I was just, I was emotionally unavailable. And I was hurt. And I was pissed off. And I had all these emotions. I had never associated with basketball. And it was a big

mistake to go work for ESPN. I was really bad on TV. You could probably go on an awful analysis and say, oh, we're going to, we're going to find some Shane Badiye low lights here. I had, I had zero passion for it, zero. Congratulations. Your father was a great point guard for the Russian national team. What does he mention your career? Oh, I think now he watched, he was this, he was draft. Like, a lot of emotions have, so same like me. Well, that's great. But at this point in our episode, everybody listening understands how insane that is.

Yeah. That you, guy they've been listening to, tell stories with this level of alacrity. Yep. Couldn't do that. Yep. Because of this internal... Was it... Was this the hearse?

Was this finally you being like, I guess I got to get in this thing now? I was chasing relevance. When you retire, you don't know. This is all I knew. It's all I knew, 30 years, right? I had purpose every day. The scoreboard above me and told me where I was, all right? I love my teammates.

I love being part of a team, right? The money was great. I had status. I had all these things that, like, like people are chasing these things in their professional life. I had it checked every box. So to not have that when you wake up one day, because you don't have the jersey, you don't have the locker room, you don't have the purpose.

It's scary as shit. Yeah. I was terrified. I was terrified. There's one quote that I remember you giving at what point and it was if you had filet mignon every single night, you'd stop tasting it. Yep. Which is to say that even though you missed so actively,

the thing that you weren't doing anymore. It felt like by the end also, your ability to enjoy it was also changing, which is an interesting tension of like missing something that wasn't even the thing that for you,

it was anymore. Yeah. Yeah, it's a weird feeling. It was a weird, it was a weird time. I went through a lot of, who am I? Who am I? My identity was so tied to basketball, it was tied to the Nostat All-Star.

stuff right right so like i in a lot of ways i felt like i was an actor in my own life that i had only take like i couldn't turn it over i couldn't take two point shots because i talked about it no literally so i i get it so i felt like almost like i was playing this role of this guy and we talk about authenticity and i played it to the best of my ability but i question like who the heck am i what am i about like what am i doing what am i doing what am i doing and you know going to yesb and being terrible at it and that disaster over a year uh didn't help and so you know i'd never been to therapy my wife you know of 22 years who we met in seventh grade said look shannon i know you like optionality here's three options you can you know here's the number

to the marriott here's a number to your attorney and here's this number to this life coach slash psychologist that comes very highly recommended i said hi do you am i very smart man i'm going to choose door three. And so I had to unpack a lot of crap that I just didn't deal with because I was so driven. I was too busy throwing up. I was too busy grinding and just like pursuing whatever it was in the basketball career that I did not give time to and like not healthy at all. I was not stable. Well, this is the other thing about like having a superpower in any way, right, is that there is an implication that, man, look at this gift. But the more I learn about sports, the more I realize that extremity in any fashion also implies a certain imbalance if you're not extraordinarily

careful. A hundred percent. And I don't, like, would I do things differently? I don't know. That's the thing. I know it wasn't healthy. But like, I never had a sports psychologist when I play because I was so scared of anyone getting inside this and taking away my superpower. Yeah. which was like my IQ and my ability to read and react. I'm like, I don't need to be thinking. I don't need to be a motive here. I just need to be like a great defender and make open shots. And like, I'll deal with it later.

The metric, the standard of success is not a health. It is, are we winning? Are we winning? Am I still here? And so I don't know what I would have done differently. Did you get a sense that when you went to therapy, that your psychologist was like, I know exactly the type of person you are,

or were they saying something that was... Yeah, I don't think I was out of the ordinary for a retired athlete. I think every athlete goes through some version of this, some form of fashion, and the longer you're in the game, the more work you got to do, right?

And I describe it as, I think this falls any person of success, all right? But especially young people, you know, entertainers or people who win the first third of life, right when you're identified as a young talent or even an old talent you know you're told you're great you know and if you show any vulnerability guess what we're going to take your dream and give to that person because they don't show any weakness so what do you do you start building walls you always have the answer

all right you you can't feel anything you're you're bulletproof right so emotionally it's psychologically financially sexually like i got all the answers i don't need any help give me give me space Just give me a laptop magazine and some space. I'll figure it out. And it's all good till it ain't, right? When you don't have that purpose and you don't have that support system of the locker room and you're like, who the hell am I? Well, I've been doing it solo for so long that I don't know how to ask for help.

I don't know how to, you know, so like, and what you realize is it's all relationships. It's all relationships. And it's being authentic in your relationships and fostering those things. So that's what I would have done. I would have done a better job of fostering relationships and allowing people who I care about to help me along the way. When you talk about basically having these relationships building a cabinet of people around you,

I think about how you are also one of the very special, lucky people to have played basketball with a man who had his own cabinet. Yeah. What was playing basketball against Barack Obama I was actually on his team. So first of all, to get the call to go to the president's birthday party. What's that call like? Unexpected.

Unexpected. Call out of the blue, hey, what are you doing this day? The president has requested you to play in his birthday pickup game. He's turning 49. It turning 49. And like it was, you know, Kobe was hurt by them. But it was Carmelo, Magic Johnson. I mean, it was like Alonzo Mourney, LeBron, D. Wade, Chris, like, all, like, whole,

of famers. And so like... Stuff a kid would do who loved basketball and had the power to invite everybody. Yeah. And here I am,

some schlap. The coolest part was like getting in the... Why were you invited? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

They're trying to, you know, bring some, I don't know, IQ to the game. I don't know. But I got to play in his team. And, you know, the defensive driving like Navy SEALs who drove us to the gym,

that was badass. That was the coolest part. I mean, those guys were as weed, Robin and we even. But we lose the first two games. And, you know, President Obama says, guys, bring it in. As you're a commander-in-chief, I command you to not lose this last game.

Were there hard fouls? Were there? There are no hard fouls, but there was definitely, like, they're blocking his shots. I think, I think, you know, the president appreciated that. He didn't want charity. That was part of it. He said that. He's like, I don't want charity, all right?

I want everyone to play. We're here to win. All right. So he got a taste. You got a taste. And he hit the game when he shot. He did? He hit the game when he shot.

He's like this like like this kind of squirrelly left handers. Oh, I've seen the footage. You know, it's weird. But it goes in. It goes in. And he hit the shot and he's walking around holding that, holding that thing up high. So it was an unbelievable day. The coolest, the funniest part was we're on the South Lawn having a barbecue.

birthday barbecue afterwards. And, you know, they got some hip-hop playing, whatever. And all of a sudden, a pony by Genuine comes on. And I'm just thinking to myself, you know, our forefathers are just rolling in their graves right now that Genuine's pony is playing on the South lawn. First time, first time ever, that song is gone. Somewhere the ghost of...

Teddy Roosevelt. I was going to say, yeah, Teddy Roosevelt, Andrew Jackson. Better yet. Yeah. Just can't believe it. Ride it, my pony. My saddle's waiting.

Come and jump on it. If you're horny, let's do it. Ride it, my pony. How great is that? I mean, that's the American dream. It is the American dream. And my wife and I look at each other like, this is, like, no one understands how wonderful this moment is.

It's what we worked all these years for. Exactly. When you were summoned to the front of the class, to explain black history to everybody in Michigan. Yes. You did not have the audacity to depict this image. One day, I dream of barbecue in the South Lawn. And we will play pony.

And we will all be merry. Part of what is so interesting about hearing you trace your path through life is that at various points, you have lived a movie that I find. to be endlessly amusing. And one of the scenes that recurs is just you doing karaoke. First of all, who are you telling? Who you tell? I mean, you know, when I look at my journals and write a book now,

and it's just like I... It's crazy that you've lived all of this already. It's Forrest Gumpian. Yes. It really is Forrest Gumpian. You both met the president. Yep. You both love running.

So I tour China. So my karaoke story in China. I wore a Chinese basketball shoe called Peak. Yeah. Okay? Because Yoming was my teammate in Houston and they wanted a presence on the rocket. So I went there, I never heard of the shoe. And I had like 50-foot billboards in like every city you never heard of in China.

And so I was very, very famous in China, much more famous in China than it was in America. So whenever I go to a press conference in the city when I'm touring, there would be a bunch of reporters there. And they gave me the name, Mr. President. because my cadence and the way I talk and gesture was like Barack Obama. I was going to say your sleeves are rolled up to your elbows. This is not a coincidence. And so I would be in, you know, Qing Tao. And, you know, the press would go, Mr. President, Mr. President, how do you find

Qing Tao? I said, you know what? It has the most beautiful women in the best beer. And then I would go to... What a politician. Then I go to Shanghai. Mr. President. Mr. President, how do you find Shanghai?

It has the most beautiful women in the best beer. beer, right? But they knew I love karaoke. And so I went to this beer, actually the Qingtau Beer Festival in Qingxia, China, you know, beautiful city on the water. And they wanted me to sing karaoke. And so this is like a festival. And I swear to you, there was like 20,000 people at this, at this festival. And they want me to sing Billy Jean. And I'm like, all right. No, no biggie. I'll do it. Well, I get up on stage and so I start singing, you know, she was more like a movie queen from across the scene. And all of a sudden, the words just cut out.

And so I have no monitor. Your prompter goes dead. My prompter goes dead. The ultimate politician's nightmare. And so I'm in front of 20,000 people playing Billy Jean, you know, fumbling my way through this song, trying to dance to take the, you know, the eyes off, my horrible. It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare of epic proportions to be in Qingtau, China, from 20,000 people.

At a beer festival. At a beer festival with no words. But they still cheered for me. I actually, people don't believe me. I hosted the Chinese version of S&L. What? It was called Happy Camp. They get like 100 million people. I can't make this up. They get 100 million people a week tuning in on Saturday night. And I was the host. I don't speak a Lick-A-Mander, like at all. But again, I had a translator there.

on TV, and it's like a comedy sketch show. And so they wanted me to come and sing karaoke. So I sang New York, New York. You know, I came out of the, you know, doing the kick, doing the Sinatra. And yet, is that as weird as the time that, uh, you did this? So this is the voice of Daryl Morey. Yes. So Daryl as the Good Witch and Shane as Elphaba, I suppose.

Yes, in this rendition of. Darrell wearing a blonde wig and a dress and you, I mean, when I say that you sang your heart out with a broom in one hand, Darry is a very close friend of mine. I wouldn't be here without him, what I learned from him. And he actually wrote that. He loves musicals. He loves musicals. So he and Ellen, his wife, rewrote the words to that and had an idea. So that was all Darrell's idea. And, you know, I love that he put on the pink linda dress so that that's an event called baddie oaky that we held in houston held in Miami uh it raises money for my foundation the baddie take church foundation given over uh four million dollars in scholarships the last decade so it's it's for the kids darrell on the one end uh did you blackmail lebron and d wade to do robin thick that was their that was their own volition

the badioki we don't mess around i dare say that uh mr Mr. President has assembled a rainbow coalition of people to do the thing that you made peace with, which is humiliate yourself. For a good cause, you know, you can never humiliate yourself too much. That is also a thing that we hear, a Pablo Torre finds out that we believe in. Shane Badegh, thank you for turning this podcast into a very happy camp. Pablo, you're my man. I can't wait to do patronicy with you

when I see you next time. Oh, God. I just felt, I just felt, I just felt the need for a towel. This has been Pablo Torre finds out a metal art media production. And I'll talk to you next time.