Jaw & Order: The Case of the Stolen Dinosaur Bones (and Nicolas Cage)
00:00Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out.I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is.I just want people to understand how hard it's been for me to know that Nicholas Cage would show up and not just scream.Nicholas Cage is going to show up in this episode.Just hold up right after this ad.Martin Bell, hello.Hello.I want to explain that I have looked up to you.
00:42in a very sincere way for decades now.Went to the same high school, followed you to college.You were a would-be advisor to me.Should I have gone to law school?That's true.I did not.You did.How do you describe what you did before you became fancy private sector attorney?
01:05Oh, gosh.I did debate for the same high school program.I covered the baseball team in,college that you would eventually cover for the school newspaper. I did the Sports Illustratedinternship, I think, that you would eventually do. You might have been sitting in this chair.I think about this all the time, honestly. I really think that, like, I've tried to describe myrelationship with you, and somebody once sort of furrowed their brow and said, protege? And I'm like,no. Sort of just like an alternate sliding doors type scenario. Yes.
01:42If I had your talent, which I don't, to be clear.And vice versa.It's an interesting sort of thing where we had the same trajectory for a while,and then one of us went through with law school and the other one didn't.And instead of imagining a world in which Martin Bell was the one who started his own podcastand commissioned a butter sculpture of his own head and also kissed it on camera,I wanted to tell you what he went on to do instead,which was graduate from Harvard Law School,
02:14and then become a federal prosecutor,an assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.And if you don't know what the Southern District is,if you've never seen an episode of billionsor watched any number of legal dramas,you should know that it is the nation's most prestigious U.S. attorney's office.It is known, according to the New York Times,for handling, quote, complex and challenging cases
02:36involving high finance, national security, and public corruption.And quote, which is why it was an especially big dealwhen this recently happened.We're following more breaking newsand it's more fallout after the Justice Department's directiveto drop the case against Mayor Eric Adams.Danielle Sassoon, the acting U.S. attorneyfor the Southern District of New York, has just resigned.
03:00But that's not the only thingthat the Southern District has been dealing with lately.They are the folks who are prosecuting Diddy?The indictment alleges that those individualsfacilitated the freakoffs.They booked the hotel.hotel rooms and stock them with the supplies, including drugs, baby oil, personal lubricant,extra linens, and lighting.
03:24Somebody's got to have the tough job of separating the innocent rooms full of baby oil casesfrom the more suspect ones, and that's where the good people of my old workplace fit in.Martin Bell worked with those people at his old workplace for roughly 11 years, and a lot ofthe time he was prosecuting corruption cases, also doing some security stuff.But the case I wanted to bring him here to find out about, the case that Marty personallyprosecuted, was a civil forfeiture case. And civil forfeiture, you should know, is a littlestrange, because it's when the defendant is literally a piece of property. Like in this case,the property's human owner is not the defendant. It's the thing itself. The thing that gets forfeited,
04:14on account of that thing is alleged involvement in a crime.And in this case, a case that involves its own absurd celebrity, incidentally,and also the increasingly shaky promise of international diplomacy,which feels relevant to the news these days,it just so happens that the property in question was 24 feet long and 8 feet high,and was known, legally speaking, as one Tyrannosaurus-Batar skeleton.Which is why this case name,the federal docket was insane.
04:49United States of America the one Tyrannosaurus batar skeleton.What a bizarre international dispute.What's going on here?So bizarre, Wolf.You know, and it's not every day.You have paleontologists, federal prosecutors,and the Department of Homeland Security,all working on a case involving a fossil.
05:07But a dinosaur skeleton became their focusafter questions were raised about where it really came fromand who really owns it.Before we explain why that name specifically is the way that it is,do you remember when you first heard about the dinosaur skeleton in question?I remember pretty vividly.Just a few weeks earlier, I walked into work,and the chief of the forfeiture unit was sitting in my chair,
05:34a woman named Sharon Cohen Levin.She looked up at me and smiled.I was not expecting a visit from her,and she's somebody who by that time had all,already come to be known as the Babe Ruth of forfeiture. So-called, because I think at that point in hercareer, her unit was responsible for something like 95% of the forfeited assets in the federalsystem in the United States as measured by value. Billion dollar judgments from banks,forfeiting, stolen, Nazi looted art worth millions and millions of dollars and doing things
06:13within the sort of art and craft of forfeiture that nobody else was doing.Sharon suggested that I give some thought to joining her unit.She knew I was into white collar stuff.She had already detected a little bit of whimsy in me,and she said, we've got the beginnings of something that I think you may like.And so this is how that story begins, I guess.And that made the news the next day,because it's not the sort of thing that happens all the time.
06:41Admittedly, part of my curiosity here is, of course, because I grew up loving dinosaurs.Oh, sure. Good Lord. Look, I don't want to be gendered about this, but it's particularly true if you're a boy who grew up playing with plastic dinosaurs or who took, you know, the sort of field guide to dinosaurs out of the Brooklyn Public Library's central branch, as I did no fewer than 15 times as a kid.Yes, if you're a kid who just happened to spend a big chunk of his childhood, rewatching.watching Jurassic Park.There it is.One of the most perfect movies ever made.Every part of it, Marty.From the score to the casting.
07:29The effects are still the best in the series,even though we've had 20 years of Jurassic Park movies since.It is a perfect movie.The sense of wonder that Alan Grant has,as he removes his glasses.One of the greatest scenes in the history of cinema.As he grabs Ellie's head,and points it toward where the dinosaur is.
07:55As the Brontosaurus come into view,that is the feeling I had upon realizingthat my old friend, Barton Bell,was suing a dinosaur skeleton.Yeah, it was wild stuff.There had been an attempted auctionof a Tyrannosaurus-Batar's skeletonin Midtown Manhattan.
08:19I say attempted because,in a weird moment that I could only describe as cinematic,a man burst through the doors like the Kool-Aid man,and rather than saying, oh, yeah, screamed, stop the bidding.He held a court order in his handthat the auction not proceed because of the suspicionthat the item that the Tyrannosaurus-Batar skeleton was stolen.So as soon as they started the auction,
08:49I just stood up and I held up my phone and I said,I'm sorry to interrupt, but I have the judge on the phoneand I wanted to let you know that what you're doing is violating the court's order.As I understand it, the reason why the lawyer,a lovely man named Robert Painter,was representing the Mongolian governmentis because he'd met the president of Mongolia at a partyand given him his business card,
09:12and, you know, as one does, you just wait for the call at that point.That lawyer wasn't somebodywho was used to stopping dinosaur auctions,in part because no lawyer is used to stopping dinosaur auctions,but in part because he was a personal injury lawyer from Texaswho was representing the Mongolian government in this case.Sharon, my boss, the Babe Ruth of Forfeiture.The Babe Ruth of Forfeiture reads about this and calls Robert.
09:47And Robert says, yeah, I stop this auction from happening, which is great.I have no idea what to do next.And Sharon told him, and I could imagine her smiling on the phone as she does this.Oh, I do.So we put together the beginnings of some court papers, a seizure warrant and some other itemsthat could make the claim that this was stolen property.In order to successfully seize something and ultimately forfeited, it's got to be stolen property.How is a dinosaur fossil stolen property?
10:20Mongolia has very, very strict cultural patrimony laws, those laws that protect items of culturalimportance to a particular government.And when you think cultural importance, you usually think it's a statue or something that someancient tribe made.The Temple of Dendur in the Met is an item of cultural importance.But increasingly, various sovereigns had considered natural things that, you know,once upon a time would have been looted by foreign governments to be protected items of culturalpatrimony too. That way that governments were trying to protect these objects, these skeletons,
11:04these artifacts, had they done that with dinosaur skeletons previously?I think it's fair to say that this was one of the first really big cases, in part becauseit's rare that you get a near-complete Tyrannosaurus batars.skeleton, I should say. I've mentioned the Tyrannis-Batar thing before. We're used to theTyrannosaurus rex in sort of the popular imagination. Yes. So this is the part of the episode whereI demand as Jurassic Park Finn and also a person who took the class Science B-57, I believe it was,dinosaurs and their relatives. As my science requirement in college, I should ask, what is aTyrannosaurus batar? So a Tyrannosaurus batar is a
11:50of the wrecks. If you imagine the Tyrannosaurus wrecks from Jurassic Park, the Babe Ruth of Dinosaurs.The Bay Brut of Dinosaurs, the Batar would be smaller, but still like 20 feet or so in length,and native to Mongolia. And one of the interesting things, I say native to Mongolia, how do we know that?Yeah. And we had needed to establish this in order to get the information required for a seizure warrant.Right. Because you can't just have the government running around stealing people's dinosauror fossils without justification.Painter believes the bones were looted from a desert in Mongolia,made their way through Japan to Great Britain, Florida, Texas,
12:29and finally ended up in New York,where they now sit inside this storage space in Queens.And they were able to judge that it came from Mongolia,if only because in the entire history of paleontology,there's only one region that contains the soil compositionthat allows these particular fossils to be.preserved, and that is the Nemecht Basin in the Gobi Desert in Mongolia.Clever girl.
12:57Clever girl.And so with that probable cause having been established, we appeared before a judge in the SouthernDistrict of New York, and he was very enthusiastic about the case and its possibility, in largepart because he, too, had once been an eight-year-old boy.And so he asked a number of questions that, you don't.get in most conferences. Like, can it fit in my courtroom? Where can we put it? What sort of assembly wouldbe required? This was all happening on the civil side, but on the criminal side, we were trying tofigure out whether a crime had been committed here. The same crime that sort of forms the basis for
13:41potential forfeiture action may also be prosecutable on its own. The crimes here were interstatetransfer of stolen property, which is a federal statute, and false customs forms, because you canimagine the customs forms in this case had not actually said one Tyrannosaurus but Taraskeleton.They'd been filled out somewhat misleadingly, and we were able to trace that.And so the guy who had consigned this to the auction house was a gentleman named Eric Procopi,who had a...regular business with an internet page that sold various types of organic matter as fossils.Unsurprisingly, he was based in Florida, and the business was called Florida fossils.
14:31Perfect.Can you just explain Eric Prokope as a character visually?If you're casting the movie, what's his deal?He was a fairly brawny guy.If he has the range for it, what is that guy who played the brother, the white,brother in This Is Us and who now stars in that show Tracker.Sort of like an all-American seeming type.Justin Hartley.
15:19Yeah.I could imagine Justin Hartley playing Eric Prokene.A square jaw.Square jaw.But the Florida fossils business, which, you know, it's a nice little shell here ora shell there.These are non-dinosaur fossils.These are non-dinosaur fossils.
15:35Or if they are dinosaur fossils, they are domestic dinosaur fossils.that he enthusiastically dug up,but nothing of the sort of scale and splendor of a full-on Tyrannosaurus.But in addition to the auction houses,and it's only a handful of auction houses that do this stuff,you've also got a sort of informal to black market out therethat was much more flush with foreign dinosaurs that had been imported.And you would go to various known festivals
16:06for natural trades,and somebody might bring you,you know, sort of back into their hotel roomto talk about the other stuff that they have.I imagine something not unlikewhen O.J. met those guys to talk about, you know,like his...His true jersey and his memorabilia
16:26that weren't necessarily front-line at the actual shows.Right. Instead of the Heisman trophy,it was perhaps Velociraptor.Right.But there's an interest.And, you know, every once in a while, you hear about movie stars who have purchased dinosaurs or dinosaur parts.And we'll talk about one of those later on.Yes.
16:47But, you know, for like a reasonably intact Tyrannosaurus skull.It's the number one thing I would buy.Right.Yes.In the power rankings of stuff I would buy if I had the money to buy the thing.T-Rex skull.Dinosaur fossil won and, like, you know, used as.astronaut suit, like number two.
17:09This is how Iimagine myself as a wealthier person.Same. So we startedto investigate. I should note,we worked with Homeland Securityinvestigations. I worked with a very talentedagent named Daniel Brazier,who was my partner in
17:24all of this. We always partner withthese folks who dothe legwork and sometimes thedangerous stuff. Yeah, I'm getting a law and orderdinosaurinvestigations. In the dinosaurCriminal Universe. There are really two sides. There are the agencies that do the legwork,track down the dinosaurs, and execute the search warrants, and the lawyers who do the stuff I did.
17:46These are their stories.Bong-bang. Given that, Mongolia owns everything that comes out of the ground, unless they giveexpress written consent of the Mongolian cultural patrimony organization.Mongolian dinosaur policy being similar to Major League Baseball broadcast.It wasn't that hard to put together search warrantsand to eventually plan the execution of a search warrant at his home and workshop.It's one of those things where I went to work that day,thinking I am going to run point from my office in New York
18:24on this raid of a dinosaur assembly and rehabilitation operation.This was something different.sitting there in my office, I get a call from Special Agent Brasier, and he says, yeah, you won'tbelieve what just happened. And I'm like, okay. And he says, we're sitting there executing the searchwarrant, and this truck rolls up, like a UPS or it might have been D.HL delivery truck with a big cratethat all but says, careful, treat with care, dinosaur fossils inside it. And so do you think we canget a warrant for this? Yes, I think we can get a warrant for that, I said. And it's just one of thosemoments where you're just like, is this serious? Like, you could do drug or money laundering
19:15or stolen property prosecutions forever and never have a moment quite like that. Right.Where while you're doing the search warrant, people show up with more contraband. Mr. Prokope had an entiregarage out back of his home in Gainesville or just outside of Gainesville, where he was working on agood number of fossils that seemed to trace back to Mongolia and, in fact, had taken a number of picturesof what seemed to be him in the Gobi Desert with others extracting these fossils from theground. And some of them had already been sold. Interestingly, the piece that arrived during ourRaid.Yeah, what was that?
20:02Was a particularly special piececalled the Graveyard of the Over Raptors.What a fucking great band name.We are.We are the graveyard of the Over Raptors.It's just, you know, do free bird.The graveyard of the Over Raptors was a naturally made pieceinvolving five or six Over Raptors
20:28that had met some sort of common fate and were tanked.angled up with each other. The overraptors looked something like, and again with Jurassic Parkas a reference, that one scene where there's a stampede and they hide behind a sort of likeossified tree, overraptors are best known for and named for, as I understand it, being sortof egg-stealing dinosaurs and steal other dinosaurs. In this case, requesting freebird beingparticularly morbid and appropriate.Yes, yes, well done.So here's what we wind up learning.
21:06There are a handful of peoplewho are the really key figures in this tradewho are known and of varying degreesof either innocence or the same sort of questionable nature.And I learned that this investigation is going to hitthat trade generally like a thunderbolt because a lot of this had been happening in plain sight.Ultimately, we decided to plead Mr. Prokopee out on what's called a cooperation agreement.A cooperation agreement usually means that you are agreeing to testify against other people
22:02in exchange for lenience, or at least the hope of lenience.You can imagine with these cooperation agreements we like to work our way up,criminal organizations not down.Mr. Prokaby didn't really have people to point upwards at, but he did have information that wouldhelp us secure a number of other dinosaur fossils, including information that a number of hissketchier friends in Florida were holding onto dinosaur fossils for him.We eventually recovered those fossils.And so at the end of the day, we had more than two dozen fossils or fossil pieces,
22:42including three Tyrannosaurus, and ankylosaurus, that one with the armor on its back.Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.That kind of looks like the Barclay Center.Yeah, with the clubbter.Some Galaimimuses and some eggs here and there.Just an array of different types of fossils.heritage auctions believes its consigner purchased the fossils in good faith and says we have cooperated in the investigation process for paleontologists to expeditiously examine the skeleton and we will continue to cooperate with authorities.We wind up having Mr. Prokope plead guilty pursuant to a cooperation agreement.
23:24it's sort of an interesting thing because when you've got a first-time offender in a white-collar case,you usually expect that if that person pleads guilty to a cooperation agreement and has done what cooperation we ask of them,they're probably not going to go to jail.The sentence is supposed to, among other things, reflect the seriousness of the offense.There's no real blueprint for what a dinosaur cooperator gets.Right.And our judge struggled mightily with what to do.here. We were not arguing for any particular sentence that was in line with the office's policy
24:00at the time. But I do think that everything in my body English was suggesting that this guyshouldn't get time. Well, I'm trying to imagine, like, if you want to triangulate what does justicelook like for this dude who was the guy making money off of this particular skeleton or skeletons,I'm trying to, like, put him in some sort of moral hierarchy. Like, okay, he's kind of like a poacher.but these animals are already dead.Right.So you don't have that same way.Right.
24:29So what do you compare him?But it's not necessarily a victimless crime.So in the case of United States versus Prokopee,which is the criminal case that is related to the case that we came here to discuss,United States of America versus, again, one Tyrannosaurus buttar skeleton.The victim would be who?Mongolia.Mongolia is the victim.
24:51The Mongolia officials we dealt with from,the lead paleontologistto folks involvedwith the Mongolian embassy, they felt thisvery, very strongly.Mongolia is not an incrediblywealthy country, and I think thatthere is a certain underdog mentality
25:08that attaches to that, and they'rebeing kicked in a waythat they saw as being worthyof meaningful punishment.What winds uphappening is Mr. Prokope winds up gettingthree months in jail.At force of a collector,
25:24and U.S. citizen Eric Prokope has been sentenced in federal court to three months in prisonfor smuggling dinosaur bones from Mongolia.He confessed to smuggling a number of skeletons of dinosaurs,including the skeleton of 70 million years old Tyrannosaurus Batar from territory of Mongoliabetween 2010 and 2012.Sometime after that, we're now sitting on this big collection of fossilsthat Immigrations and Customs Enforcement has,at a warehouse somewhere.
25:57And we commence the paperworkand the procedural stuff neededin order to do some repatriation ceremonies.And when you say ceremonies.Yeah.How ceremonial are these ceremonies?We had multiple repatriation ceremonies.Well, good morning and sign Bainu,
26:18as they say in Mongolian.I am John Morton,the director of U.S. Immigration and Customsenforcement. Today we do something extraordinary. We return to the people of Mongolia, a 70 millionyear old dinosaur that was looted from the rocky sands of the Gobi Desert. It is a TyrannosaurusBatar, a large two-footed predator and cousin of the Tyrannosaurus rex. The T-Batarskeleton we return today is a rare, nearly complete skeleton that is 24 feet long and 8 feet high.It was found in the Gobi Desert between 10 to 15 years ago and under Mongolian law never should have left the country.
26:59Yet here it is before you.Mongolia sent pretty high-level Mongolian officials.I wish to extend our profound gratitude for your hard work and dedication.Our collective success has proven that united we can fight and win against the ills andevils on earth. And that friendship helps to build a just, insecure world. I have absolutely no doubtthat with the people like you all, my friends, our two countries, Mongolia and America are destinedto aspire and win minimal heights of cooperation and success. Thank you, friends, and welcome home,they sent awards for us i was one of a number of folks awarded the mongolian presidential medal of
27:59friendship and had it pinned to my lapel during this ceremony so too did robert painter and sharonthe baby ruth of forfeiture and um at that first repatriation ceremony some up and comingteen musician star sang what i imagine rates pretty highhighly on the Mongolian hit parade over, you know, at one point in the ceremony.And it was the sort of thing that you never really forget.This is the scene at the end of Star Wars.Yes.But with dinosaur bones in Mongolia.
28:31Yes.You're Tobacco with the medal.Yes, yes.It's exactly that.I will say the Mongolians obviously were incredibly grateful.And I'm not someone to nitpick when it comesto sincere displays of gratitude like that one.There was one thing that happened that made me shake my head ever so slightly,
28:56because this had become a big story in Mongoliaand apparently had been a big political issue during that year's Mongolian elections.President Elbigdorj ran for re-election,and apparently securing and obtaining the repatriation of these fossilswas listed among the big accomplishments of the Elbigdorge administration.And one of the bits of, I don't want to call it propaganda,but materials that had been prepared in anticipation of this event was a children's bookin which the first of the batars was an actual living character,
29:36not in skeletal form, but in full flesh, was a character in the bookand discussing its return.The children's book sort of gave the story of how the Mongolian spiritwouldn't be crushed, and how ultimately the dinosaur got to come back home, all sort ofbroken down in a way that young children could understand and presumably be read to in theiryurts at night.Yes.In their equivalent of the Brooklyn Public Library, they would have this book.
30:07Yes.And there was one page of this story, our story, dedicated to the court proceedings in New York,which depicted a sort of, you know, like fumbling, well-meaning American prosecutor.And that prosecutor was white.This is the time I will tell your audio listeners who may have been wondering.I am, in fact, quite black.And I saw this and kind of shook my head a little bitbecause even if it's only for the Mongolian market,
30:48I don't want this story whitewashed.And God forbid, you know, Hollywood ever picks up with this.I don't want Matthew Broderick playing, you know, Prosecutor Bell.I think that, like, Don Cheedle or John David Washington or somebody, ought to get a shot.And look, there was at one point perhaps a real possibility of this because a writer for the New Yorker who had attended a number of these proceedings wound up writing a very good piece.This is Paige Williams.Page Williams of the New Yorker, a very good piece of the New Yorker about this case that took us up and to up through the plea.And she later wrote a very dense but very good book about the case called the dinosaur artist, which I would recommend to anybody who finds this story remotely interesting.
31:38Same.And it will tell you not only about the prosecution, but also more than you ever wanted to know about the fossil trade, about Mongolian history.It's this deep dive into all of these factors that led to this sort of extraordinary happening.It helps explain for those who are wondering how it is that Martin Bell noted black attorney became this character in a children's book and also an owner of, again, the Mongolian medal of friendship.This is how deeply felt these bones are.It is bone deep in the Mongolian character.The Mongolians cared immensely about this and were so clearly grateful, and I didn't complain about the children's book, depiction of me.And so we had a couple of other repatriation ceremonies because it took a little while for the cases to actually clear.
32:35For each of these clutches of dinosaurs, we had to file in action.And so some of those were actually more strangely titled than the one that you've alluded to.And at one point, I guess this takes us to the part of the story where Nicholas Cage gets involved.I just want people to understand how hard it's been for me to know that Nicholas Cage would show up and not just scream,Nicholas Cage is going to show up in this episode. Just hold up.So there comes a point where we are tracking down the various trajectories of these dinosaurs.And we realize that a dinosaur that Nicholas Cage is known to have purchased in Californiafor $200,000, that skull traced back to the prokopee dinosaurs.
33:45It was a batar skull.And as such, was likewise forfeitable because it was interstate transfer property that was stolen.And originated in...originated in Mongolia, was stolen under Mongolian law.And so I reached out and contacted Nicholas Cage's attorneys.Right around this time, my wife had given birth to our first child, my daughter, Zora,and I took a few weeks of paternity leave.And the event that brought me back from paternity was a business trip I had to take to Los Angeles
34:24in order to inspect with the agents,Nicholas Cage's dinosaur skullin Nicholas Cage's Storage Depot.How Nicholas Cage was it?It wasn't as Nicholas Cage as one might expect it to be.There were some big and neat-looking geodes in there.I don't think he had a whole lot stored in there at the time.I can see him as a geode guy, though.
34:49Yeah.That does make sense.So we took a look at the skeleton,which existed in three parts at the time.It's sort of like each hemisphere of the headand then sort of like the lower sort of palette,which is longer than it would be on a person.Just for the record here, for those only listening,
35:08Martin Bell and describing Nicholas Cage's T-Rex skullis describing the movie poster for the movie Face Off.And so we're like, all right, yep, this looks good.And that, too, was ultimately shipped east.received by Immigrations and Customs Enforcement.We filed another action for that skull,so that had its own civil case.So we have a fourth repatriation coming soon.
35:40So this one, we have some number of tip-tar skulls been seized,including the one that...was used to be owned by Nicholas Cage.But that one, I think the last of the pieces involved in my case,was only repatriated, I think it's within the past year and a half.There was a ceremony at the Library of Congressin which Immigrations and Customs Enforcement repatriated that skull,along with several other pieces.
36:20And so it's just one of those things whereI'm just going to stop you there.It's literally not one of those things.There is no episode we've done that is less like one of those thingsthan the story that involves you repatriating Nicholas Cage's dinosaur bones.I suppose that's right.I have my Mongolian presidential medal of friendship hanging in my officeon a little sort of custom frame that I got done at Michaels.
36:50I think to myself, well, there it is, exactly as I'd planned it.And I want to make a couple of things clear relatively early onrather than face the wrath of Nicholas Cage and his attorneys.One, Mr. Cage's attorneys could not have been nicer or more professional about the whole thing.Number two, Mr. Cage did the right thing.Last December, actor Nicholas Cage agreed to return a stolen dinosaur skull he purchased in2007 for $276,000 from a well-known gallery in Beverly Hills.He claims he didn't know it was stolen.
37:29And I'm just grateful to have worked at a place that let me have what felt like actual adventureshere and there.Well, as somebody who grew up going on adventures to the Natural History Museum, to the Smithsonian,who takes his daughter now, Violet, to the museum to the museum to stand underneaththese skeletons and marvel like Alan Grant did. I wonder, where are the bones now?Ah, I have an answer. Mongolia ultimately repurposed an old Soviet-era office building in its capital,Ulaan Batar, and the Batar-Bat-Bat-Bit is real, and turned it into a dinosaur museum and a major tourist attractionin Mongolia,
38:21largely based just on the hall that they got from this case.And it looks like a cool museum, honestly.Like, it's a couple of stories high.They've got dramatic lighting.And it's just this thing that exists halfway across the world now,in part because of the work that I was lucky enough to be able to participate inwith my agency partners and the folks who supervisesupervised me at the U.S. Attorney's Office.
38:51It's not the sort of thing that is going to get me a Times obituary or a first pitch at,you know, at City Field.Although, I mean, if Hock Tua can do it, I've arguably earned it based on my contributionsto science and Mongolia.And so this is where it does feel appropriate for me to just jump in and observe that,Yes, of course, we here at Pablo Torre finds out did reach out to Nicholas Cage and his team in order to ask if Nicholas Cage ever got paid back for the dinosaur skull.Or would perhaps like to visit it in the present, in Mongolia, even maybe, with former federal prosecutor for the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Southern District of New York, Martin Bell, whom Mr. Cage might remember from the time he prosecuted.this case, while also being a big fan of his movies.
39:57And Mr. Cage's manager, in one of the most disappointing responses I've ever receivedhosting this show or anything, had no comment.Which means that all we have to play for you right now is this video of Nicholas Cagesharing his perspective on this specific topic with GQ back in 2022.There's the skull I bought.at an auction and I bought it legally.Here's the McGuffin.When the Magolian government said that they needed it back,
40:29I gave it to him, but I never got my money back.So somebody at the auction house should be in jail.And so as for the recognition that Martin Bellwas still hoping to receive back here at home from the world of sports,the world that he had abandoned memorably in favor of law school.Yeah, I mean, I doubt he'll get to throw out a front of,first pitch for his beloved New York Mets, unfortunately.But I am significantly more confident about something else.
41:00There will be a movie about this story, and all we need is for Nicholas Cage to break intothat museum and re-repatriate his dinosaur skull.I hope that if I do get that opportunity, if the movie is made, maybe they havethe premiere in Ulambatur.And as the room goes dark and the opening credits roll,I just imagine and hope that a number of the Mongolian audience will whisper to each other,I thought he was white.Marmbell, my friend, and Mongolia's.
41:49Thank you for coming into our studio.It's been an honor, man.Thanks for having me.This has been Pablo Torre finds out a Metal Arc Media production.And I'll talk to you next time.
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