Pablo Torre Finds Out - Linsanity Is Dead. Long Live Linsanity: Jeremy Lin on the Finals, the Garden and the Healing Power of These Knicks

Episode Date: June 10, 2026

Madison Square Garden hasn't felt this alive since a little-known point guard from Harvard became the most popular person in New York City. On the occasion of his grand return, Jeremy Lin sits down with Pablo, who's been covering him since their dorm-room days, for a full-circle conversation about pressure, toughness, fleeting fame, the end of his run with the Knicks, squashing the beef with Carmelo Anthony and, yes, getting recruited by Kim Kardashian.• Take the PTFO audience survey• Subscribe to Pablo's newsletter• Subscribe to PTFO on YouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is. I would have played for significantly less if that meant staying with the Knicks. Like, significantly less, because my heart was always here. Right after this ad. Yo, you need coffee, anything? You got it? Caffeinated? I am hurting right now. Journalism and all that too.

What time did you get to bed last night? Dude, I didn't sleep last night until like 2.30. You're in the ESPN machine now, man. Yeah, no. It's so funny to have you in studio. I'm very happy to be here. Dude, I saw you. I mean, I first met you when you were a senior.

Yeah. And you were trying to set up your Xbox. I was nice at Halo 3. I was going to say. The Halo. the Halo resume was a lot stronger, it seems, than your draft stock. Yeah, no, there weren't too many weaknesses in my Halo 3 game. In my draft stock, that wasn't too hot.

No, no. What was it like to be there in person last night? We're talking on Tuesday morning. Last night was game 3. What did it feel like? it was so i'm there hours before and i'm there like an hour before they even let fans in and so as they start to let fans in they're trickling into their seat you know an hour and a half two hours before the game i'm doing some media on the on the skybridge i think it's called and i'm walking

and the people in the nosebleeds are seeing me and you know there's you know you know 25% filled because they just opened the doors. And they're going crazy. And I'm like, this is insane. And then they give me that, you know, the introduction. I didn't know, but apparently it was close to a standing O or a standing O. You know, I'm instructed to look into the camera, wave, and just stare into the camera and smile. So I'm not looking.

I can't see the greater arena. And I don't know what's actually happening. I can't see it on the Jumbotron or anything. I can only hear kind of, oh, there's some highlights and staring to the camera, and I'm just focused like this. It wasn't until after when Scott Van Pelt told me, he was like, they gave you a standing O. And I was like, really?

I did not know that. But obviously, just completely, completely blown away. There was a lot happening last night. The thing that I kept on hearing from fans, from friends, and of course, I have a particular vantage point on this. But they kept on saying, We are most excited to see Jeremy Lynn back in this building. The whole thing about this Knicks team

that I'm forced back into contemplating is you because the garden hasn't sounded like this since you were playing in it. The exclusive interview with the man at the center of the biggest story in sports. His name is Jeremy Lynn. He's the seemingly out of nowhere overnight star of the New York Knicks, the man who launched a thousand and bad puns like Linsanity and Linderella story.

Lind with the ball in his hands. Lynn for three. I've heard that reference a lot yesterday. I think the last time it was like this was when Linsanity was happening. And I was like, really? They've had some playoff runs recently and whatnot. But I haven't been back, so I don't know. But it was genuinely overwhelming, you know, even when we were feeling.

filming for, you know, the initial show, the pregame show. I'm seeing my shirts, my jersey. Oh, the city, people are, it's like it's 2012. I appreciate it. And even at the game yesterday, you know, like, you see majority is Brunson. But there's a little bit of my stuff sprinkled in there. And so, you see the number 17. I'm just like, wow, like New York, they really, they really got my back. Well, look, the whole thing of what the potential of the garden is and how this team, obviously, making a finals run, is meeting that possibility. It was proven by you. Just the idea of, like, this could be the greatest building in sports. In my lifetime, that's the thing that I felt. And again, I've been covering you for way too long. But that was the premise. And so watching this team for you, I mean, it's got to be weird, kind of just surreal on a bunch of levels.

It's so nice to see what's happening for multiple reasons. One, there's always so much appreciation, but there's always going to be a part of me that was like, I wish everything turned out differently. In terms of the ending with my Knicks, I didn't see that time ending so fast. I was expecting and hoping and praying to be back for more seasons to give more performances to be able to help take us further. And so to me there's always a little bit of like Knicks fans deserve more. And I wasn't able to do that for them. And I just hope that anybody will be able to give them what they want, which is to win, win big and to turn a city upside down.

So for me, I'm seeing this. And I remember yesterday I was just like, this is overwhelming the production of everything, the energy of everything. And then I saw a journalist who has been covering me for almost the same amount of time that you have been covering me. And she says to me, she says, I want you to soak this in because you are now in the spectator seat. And that's what it was like when you were doing everything. And I was like, that hit me really hard because I was like, this is overwhelming seeing just how much is happening for this team and how like a blaze this city is. What have you been learning as you watch this team, but also think about what watching you must have felt like? Because I was there.

I was at The Garden when you dropped 38 on Kobe and the Lakers. I was covering you for Sports Illustrated throughout that whole run. What are you realizing about? what that must have been like 14 years ago. It's just, it's the feeling of, I can't wait to, like, jump out of my seat. And yesterday there's multiple times, I cannot see, I cannot see the floor unless I'm standing.

And even when it's like you shouldn't be standing, they're still standing, you know? And it's like, they just can't wait for anything good or semi-good to happen so they could just jump out their seats and just cheer and go crazy. And that's just like, that's the pent-up, like yearning for Nick's success, which is decades long. And it's highs and lows, but really it's, it's a lot of lows.

It's primarily lows through the last, you know, 20 years and the last 53 years when they won it, 27 years since they've been in the finals. But it's just the pain and the, if you look at the arc of the organization, it's the gut-wrenching pain that makes sense. this that much more exciting and and don't don't even get me starting on what the knicks mean to the city what the nicks mean to the world the brand recognition it is a cultural institution um and and so it is literally it feels like when you're walking around the city it's almost like i'm scared to even have colors that look like i'm rooting for the spurs and i'm like wearing a suit you

So I'm like black and white. And people are like, are you rooting for the Spurs? I'm like, I'm wearing a black and white suit, okay? It's just a black and white suit. They're like, you can't root for the Spurs. I'm like, don't worry. I'm not room for interspers. There's that like level of you must rock with the Knicks.

This is a Knicks city. Yeah. Watching like Carl Anthony Towns, watching Jalen Brunson, watching these guys, Michael Bridges, watching them get to feel like they're levitating. I mean, the thing about the garden, the thing that people need to appreciate. On some level, yes, I'm born and raised in New York.

I think that the sensation of New York City, when this is happening, is unparalleled. In culture and entertainment, it's just unparalleled. But the perspective of being at the center of it and feeling like you are riding this high. Yeah. At the time, you felt what? I know they're going crazy, but it's almost. almost like you can't process it all, right? Like you can't allow, you can't allow space to process it.

You can't allow space to enjoy it. Because the minute that you do that, you start to lose your edge. And I think that's what we're seeing with the Nix. Yes. Are they able to really process what's happening? That's why I ask. They know. Because the minute that you did, and that's the beauty of professional sports is,

it is literally the, you know, 0.1% that make a difference. And so, you know, you see Brunz, who looks pissed off when they win and has been pissed off this entire series. You see... Josh Hart's the same way. They're just like... They're angry and they're locked in

and they refuse to take in what is happening. And that's the only way to... Because the spotlight is so big, that's the only way to stay focused. But also because... And this is where it sort of like speaks to your experience, also because there's an understanding that all of this is fragile.

Yes. That this is fleeting. Like, someone out there is going to be asking themselves is this for real? Yeah, yeah. Is this guy someone I can trust or is this going to evaporate and we're going to all think that,

man, was that, what a weird dream. Yeah. We had. Because I think, again, this goes to understand the context and the history of the Knicks where it's like,

I want to put all my hopes and dreams on you, but then there's that always like that cautious optimism of like what's going to happen. Like I'm expecting the other, I'm waiting for other, you know, the other shoe to drop, like kind of having that feel too.

I'm just going to enjoy Wallace here. You know, there's just so many emotions that are coming out. It's intense and it's understandable. You know, I need to remind people that you used to be a terrible quote. Thank you. I appreciate that. I love the honesty, and you're so right. I remember, like, covering you at Harvard was one thing, and I was like, okay, he's a college senior, whatever.

Like, I'll give grace. But when you were going through this thing, you know, it was it was palpably uncomfortable. I probably just started to realize that maybe five days into it, every side I'm going to, it's like, oh, lend this, lend that. And it was just a little overwhelming. You know, and obviously we've known each other for, you know, over a decade now. So you know my personality. And when I was a senior in college, through the first of the first, you know, first two, three years of my career, if you put me in an interview, I would tense up, I would be

like starting to sweat and have like, you know, I have that, right? Like when I used to walk into a restaurant and people started to recognize me like, oh, that's Jeremy. I would immediately like tense up and like have goosebumps or like duck my head. It makes me nervous. I don't crave the spotlight. It makes me uncomfortable. But at the same time, I am built for the spot. like in a sense of I'm built to perform under the brightest lights and I am built to rise to the occasion of whatever it is. And that's been true in my basketball career from a young age. But personality-wise, it's tough, man.

And so, yeah, I apologize for all the bad quotes and the horrible answers, the short answers, the, I don't know why he's talking to me about this. I don't know how to answer it or whatever, all that. And then you're going back trying to figure out, how am I going to craft that? This answer was so damn bad. Look, I was pretty annoying myself because I was the guy who was just like relentlessly badgering you. What color was your brother's couch that you were sleeping on? What neighborhood was it?

Will you write this book with me? And it's just like, okay, we were all, we were all, we were all very young back then. But the thing of what you were like, I mean, in those interviews, I could hear you thinking, which was the opposite from you on the floor. Yes. And I want to explain to people, like you growing up, right, from Palo Alto, you've told me stories about growing up. And, of course, Asian American parents. I got to know your parents when I was interviewing them when you were in college.

And the level of both trust and belief that they had that like, yo, this, our son might be a basketball player. Can you explain for people who don't know, like your mom, for instance, just what she invested into that possibility, which is opposite from what any caricature of an Asian American parent. Yeah. My mom grew up and she loved dance, but she couldn't pursue it. My dad grew up, loved sports, but couldn't pursue it because their parents, my grandparents wouldn't allow them to do that. So when they got married and had kids, the one thing they decided was if our kids have a passion towards something, we won't restrict them from going down that route. And so they've funneled so many resources into, you know, competitive basketball is expensive. And we're an immigrant family, so we don't have that money, right?

And so they're literally interventions with our grandparents and, like, my grandmother, and then also their friends. And they're like, you're spending and wasting too much money on your kids playing basketball. Like, that's not okay. You shouldn't be doing that. That's a bad investment. That's a bad investment. Like, you're messing up your future. And it's funny because once I made it to Harvard, then these same parents came back and was like, wait, wait, so what?

What other sports can my kids play, like fencing or what, you know. But even in Harvard, it wasn't like you're going to graduate and play professional basketball. They're like, you got a Harvard degree. You're going to graduate and you're going to use your economics degree and go do what people with economics degrees to go do. We were financially in such a tough position. And when it really came down to it, when I was preparing for the NBA draft, my mom emptied out her entire 401. so that I could eat until I was full so I could prepare for the NBA draft. And at that time, we were very far in debt.

We had already borrowed from the bank. We had borrowed from the house. We had borrowed from Harvard. No one would let us borrow anymore. And then we had to borrow from family. And so my mom and dad are like, they're in a very tough position. And then my mom just has a little bit left in her 401K and gives it all to me and says, you got two years

and if you don't make this work in two years you got to go use that Harvard degree and so the point of all of this is you weren't eating until you were full yeah I was just I mean I was just trying to save money so I was just eating subway

every day because they had $5 foot long and I was just eating like I was just eating until it was like 75% full because I was like man if I keep eating and eating that's another $5.25 it was $5.25 and $25 including tax and I remember it to his day Because you're an economics major.

I'm an econ major, and I'm eating this every day because I don't have a choice. But when it really comes down to it, when it really comes down to putting money where your mouth is, my parents did that, and I don't think a lot of people will. No. I mean, this is like the hidden context for when you're making the NBA and you're in the, what was then called the D-League, and you have this opportunity to finally get off the bench. this is the stuff that is fueling the level of desperation. Absolutely.

And God's timing is so crazy because I finally signed with the Warriors on a partial guarantee, rookie minimum. And I kid you not, within four weeks, both my parents were laid off. Because this was when, you know, they're engineers. They're engineers in the Silicon Valley. That's when tech and apps and everything was booming. And so they started going with a lot of younger engineers. And the whole industry shifted. And my parents who have been computer engineers their whole life,

they got laid off within two weeks of each other. This is within four weeks of me signing with Golden State. And they could never find. And they were looking. They couldn't find a job after that. And they were consistently looking and nobody would hire. I'm just like, God, how would we have made it through that stretch if I didn't make it in, if I didn't make it in NBA?

Like, what would have happened? It's the thing that takes you from the Warriors to the Rockets. Again, part of the legend is you get cut on Christmas Eve by the Houston Rockets and our good friend Darrell Morey. Yeah, yeah. And you land eventually here in New York. And just the highlight reel, the montage, the stuff that made me laugh the most, that was also, I'm sure, terrifying. I remember headlines, Kim Kardashian wants to meet Jeremy Lent. What's the weirdest paparazzi moment you've had?

Stuff about me dating, you know, Kim Kardashian. I mean, I have no idea where that came from and all these other rumors. You don't think you're the Kim Kardashian type? No, I think, no, I don't think I'm that type. I still don't know the origin of that. So this is what I've heard, and I don't know if it's true or not, but this is what I've heard. that request did come in to the Knicks and that is a real request I think basically she at that time was filming her show

which is I don't know if it's like keeping up with the Kardashians or whatever show was happening back then but I know that she was looking for kind of like a New York athlete and so to kind of be on this show essentially and this is all like again is it true or is not I don't know this is what was told to me afterwards because the request came into the Knicks, they immediately declined it without even asking us

because they're like, this is not, this is not, you know, we're not allowing our young, second year player to go down this route right now. They wouldn't let me interview you. That was how protective the Knicks were of you at the time. Yeah, I mean, I didn't even know that. What was the sort of most memorable or scary part

if you're just to look back and be like, oh yeah, that was part of my existence in the city? So I'm living on the couch. Your brother's couch, my brother and sister-in-law. And then all of a sudden it's like, we have like 10, 15 offers from the nicest properties in Manhattan. Come stay at our penthouse suite for free. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Come stay here for free.

Everything for free. I'm like, oh. So I move into the residences at the W. And they took. care of me. I didn't have to pay for anything. And I was just like, oh, I'm glad I'm not on the couch. Is everything's furnished? It was great. And I remember because the paparazzi and the fans and everything was so crazy, I couldn't really leave unless it was like midnight or something and sneak out. You go out the back entrance. But there's a stretch where I couldn't leave without being

followed. And I remember I was always, I was on like, I don't know, the 35th floor or something. And I would always look out the window and just see, like, which cars are down there by the lobby. Can I leave right now? Or will I be followed? But it reminds me that as much as you were, like, the most popular person in New York City, you couldn't actually explore the city at all. Like, I remember learning that you hadn't, you didn't even, like, know what Times Square was. Like, you were sort of, like, going from place to place sequestered secretly.

And so the thing that you're getting to do now, 14 years later, is actually like be in actually community with, like, people. Yeah, no, yeah, I get to walk down the street and say, what's up to the fans and whatever. And one of my vivid memories, and it's extremely vivid because when I come back to the city, I think about it every time I come back to the city was during that stretch, this was after the season had ended.

I had torn my meniscus and I was trying to rehab. And I remember, like, me and my brothers and my family, we went and walked to an outdoor park very late at night and we were like shooting around and playing horse and that was one of my most vivid memories from that year of because I finally felt safe outdoors with my family and it felt like I was a kid again and it was in Battery Park and that was one of the things I remember the most because I just wanted to feel normal again. Hello, it's me, Pablo. we have been very interested in what you guys actually like about this show.

And so in the show notes, there is a survey. You'll find it magically as a link somewhere down there. And you can tell us what you want more of, what you want less of, what annoys you about me, and potentially all of my friends. We will use this to improve the show. It takes like 30 seconds. So please fill it out. And we will make this better, allegedly.

The idea that you were trying to find some something like yourself through this whole process. Yeah. It reminds me of finding out, I remember talking on the phone with you and your reps about the Knicks not matching the contract because back comes our friend Daryl Morey and he has this big offer from the Rockets. And the Knicks had told you, go test the market. Yeah.

And you did. And you got an offer and you're a restricted free agent. And the Knicks said, congratulations on your new contract, but we're not matching this. I just remember thinking like that's how this book ends. It's due time I guess to kind of close fully close the book because I've always the one thing I've always kind of maintained

is what I'm most proud one of the things I'm most proud of through my career is what I haven't said. It's not what I've said or what I've done it's what I haven't said and the timing of what I have or have not said. said and it's been hard because obviously I'm human and I'm okay if you tell me I suck. I'm okay if you tell me I can't shoot it well or I wasn't a good defender when I was younger or I

couldn't go left when I was younger like you talk basketball and you criticize me it doesn't bother me that's okay it's when you attack my character that's what you know has historically been like man like it brings a different level of emotion and so I think you know this trip coming back Shout out to the current Knicks because what it has done is their success has been healing for many, many people, for many fans, for many people. It has brought people together. And it has also healed many things from the Linsanity stretch because I'm having conversations. I'm in spaces that I haven't been in before. And we're all doing this because the current NICs are doing so well.

Very recent news, but, you know, I was able to have a good conversation with. with Carmelo Anthony because of the current Knicks stretch. And so we talked a lot about things that happened and were able to have a very good clear-the-air discussion privately. And so I think now it's appropriate to, you know, share these things. And I was crushed when the Knicks. It wasn't just when the Knicks didn't match. And I still remember that very vividly because in my mind,

I'm like, everything leading up to it is a three-day period. But everything even before the three-day period, I was like, there's no way they match. There's no way they match. And that three-day period felt like three months, Pablo. It was like the longest three days of my life. And my agent is just telling me like, be prepared that they won't match. And I'm like, there's no way.

There's no way. I got to go back to New York. But, you know, I wasn't able to, when everything started, it was, yeah, it was, there was no contract. They could have offered me three years, nine million. But there wasn't even that offer on the table. And when the Rockets offer came in, the first question I asked my agent is, are the Knicks going to match this? He's like, I don't know. And I was like, can you go back to the Rockets and tell them we won't accept this offer?

We only want a lower offer. I tried to take less. I was trying to sabotage the Rockets offer. Good, good, econ major. Yeah, I was like, I don't like this poison pill. Like, bring it down. It was designed, the contract was designed to be hard to match. Because that's what the rocket's strategy was.

Yeah. And I remember it vividly as I finished this lift, an hour and a half lift, and I run outside. I call my agent back and I'm like, okay, the offer came through. Like, no, we have to get a less lucrative offer because I got to go back to New York. And then finally, I'm like, can we just not accept their offer? And he's like, no, we can't not accept their offer because the NICs refused to give us any offer. You have zero offers on the table. one option right now.

There is no alternative. You have one offer and you have to accept it and leave it to the Knicks to match or not. And that's how badly I wanted to go back. And so obviously for me it was kind of difficult just to see that people thought I willingly left the Knicks or I wanted

did it for the money or whatever. And I'm just like, man, like I would have played for significantly less if that meant staying with the Knicks, like significantly less because my heart was always here. I didn't think I would see it happen, honestly. And the things you've been navigating that you're too diplomatic to say, it's like people accusing you of like, oh, he's greedy. He just wanted the money.

He thought he was bigger than he was. I mean, that's, if you don't understand the backstory of your life, it can be insanely, of course. corrupting in terms of like what people think of you and that's and that look it takes us to what your career took you to which was houston and then the lakers and then charlotte and brooklyn and Atlanta then Toronto and watching you from afar it was watching someone try to find himself yeah and i don't just mean like the different hairstyles but i also kind of mean the different hairstyles just the idea of like who am i what am i in public how do i figure that out as all of the context for people maybe only knowing me for one thing,

but not necessarily knowing what to make of me otherwise. Like that's, I was uncomfortable watching you be uncomfortable. Yeah, I mean, it's palpable. You know, like you, other journalists, other people, when they look back, they were just like, you were scared, you were overwhelmed, you were guarded, you didn't know what's happening, you were trying to find yourself. And that's all true, right? Like the different hairstyles, what was that?

That was me learning to be okay, being criticized and laughed at. I was criticized and laughed at a lot, especially when I didn't go back to New York. And then the performances of Lincinnian, averaging those stats started to dwindle. But it hurt and it ate me up. But me trying different hairstyles was not because I thought they looked cool. They were horrible.

They looked ugly. But it was just be okay being made fun of. Be okay being criticized. and be comfortable in your own skin. And it was so hard to find myself because the world didn't even know what to do with me. And so there's this huge evolution of how do I handle everything that came to be? And Lincania itself, the moment was so big.

And it's like, that's not normal stuff, man. That kills, and that's why the Manzelles and the Beavers and the people who get that level of fame that quick or overnight, night or that young, like my heart goes out to all of them because you will end up jaded and bitter and you will have to go through kind of the cycles of, you know, you're naive and then you're on cloud nine. And then you start to like question things because people are changing and people you trust it or change and things and you're starting to realize the reality of the world and how people operate. And then you go into this like jaded, bitter.

angry phase and then you start to lash out. And then after you do enough of lashing out and jadedness, then you start to have small moments of hope and gratitude. And eventually you evolve to get to a place where you can embrace and be grateful for all of it. And these are the stages of processing and all of that that I was going through. I remember visiting you when you were with the Lakers. And this is Kobe. This is the Soft Like Sharman era. This is you not wanting to even save the term Linsanity.

Yeah. It was like I distinctly remember you like holding the term Linsanity like, you know, someone would hold a diaper. Just like away from. you and just like that's not no i don't call it you kept on calling it when new york happened yeah yeah i wouldn't even say the word why not i think it was just a shadow that i couldn't outrun and i think how i used to see it was like i'm competitive i'm ambitious so if you're talking about what happened in 2012 that means i haven't done my job as a player because in 2013 i should be surpassing what i did in 2012. In 2015, I should be surpassing what I did in 2013. There should be new memories. There should

be new stories, new chapters, a new legacy. And the truth is, you cannot top insanity. Like, I was the number one most searched person on Google. I was the most popular person on the planet. How do you top that? You cannot top that. And so for me, even if I went on, I was a, let's say I was a starter and All-Star and I won a championship on another team. It does not top Linsanity. No. It's not New York City. It's not the story of what it was.

It didn't come out of left field. I'm not sleeping on a couch. The city would not feel, I mean, no city could feel like what Linsanity was. It's impossible to top. And because of that, that crushed me. Because it was like, well, the trajectory arc of any young player is you get better and better and keep going higher and higher. And so, yeah, I held it out like a stinky diaper.

And it was a shadow. And eventually, I realized this is one of the coolest things in the world. This was the life-changing movement for myself and for millions of others. That's the thing is that as you were trying to prove that you were more than this peak all-time cultural moment, the people for whom this was a peak all-time cultural moment never stopped thinking that you were the guy. Yeah. And making peace with that, that you had different. that different demographics are responding to you in different ways, right?

Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, the NBA. They're like, who is this guy who is this guy who thinks he's bigger than we are? Yeah. And then there were the people who were like, thank God that this guy is representing us at the highest levels. Yeah. And it's all of those combined, right? And making peace with every element of it. Lincandi essentially was a crash course, an accelerated course.

on these important lessons that I need to learn on life. And so when I was able to see it that way, I was actually grateful that I was able to learn that much in a short amount of time. Granted, there was a lot of pain and a lot of heartbreak, but I was learned a lot in a short amount of time, and it very much shaped who I am today. And so I do feel like, man, Linsandy really grew me up. And I became different.

And why am I now able to kind of speak out and carry the mantle, not as a weight, but to carry it as a source of pride, to embrace being Asian American, to be able to speak up and do these things, and to be able to say, yes, I was that player that started Lin Sandy and to say that proudly and to say it changed lives, it inspired millions. That is all part of my evolution of being able to embrace it

and see the positive because there was just so much more positive than negative. The thing that I don't know if you were ever able to appreciate was that you felt to so, many people, me included, like the picture of confidence during that run. Yeah. It was unapologetic. You were waving people off in Toronto on Valentine's Day. You were pulling up from three.

You were spin moving in the lane against Kobe and the Lakers. It was watching someone be in bloom. And to know that that was who you are on the court and off the court you were managing essentially like a version of sports puberty in front of everybody. Yeah. Is this paradox that explains why this story is still, it still feels unsettled, or at least it felt unsettled until this Knicks finals run.

Yeah. Because one of the people who was actually, it turns out, going through something like puberty at the time himself, who was an enormous fan of you was Carl Anthony Towns. I want to give a shout out to Jeremy Lynn because he originally didn't get a Nick's fan and had me at Models. I'm very easy trying to find this journey.

I mean, I have so much love. Gery and Lynn. It's one of my favorite mix of all time, one of my favorite players of all time. He made me so passionate about the Knicks. And it's crazy now that I'm in this position. I'm in this chair, talking to you as a Knicks player. And Derek showed me the other day of Jeremy Lynn, my social.

And my outfit was going to be a Carl Anthony Towns jersey. I'm a big supporter of that, but I definitely need to get his jersey. For Andy to even match me, it was kind of, crazy because the love I have for him and what he's done for me and my mixed fandom is second man. It's honestly incredible because when, out of the blue, he showed up like two years ago wearing like a Linsanity shirt. And so I'm getting text messages and screenshots and I'm like, that is so random.

Like he's not, he's not partation. I was shocked. I was shocked that we were in community with Carl Anthony. Downs. I didn't know he was one of us. I didn't believe it. Right? Like the initial part was like, I don't know. Like, he's not like, he couldn't really be a fan, you know? And then I was like, but I think he is. He's rocking my shirt. So then we had a little bit of an exchange on social and whatever, a couple years go by. And then I'm like, I got to show some love back. And so I'm, I get his jersey. And then this clip comes out and I'm like, when I'm listening to him talking,

I'm really like, no, I made a difference in his life. And that's, that's like, it kind of like, it's shocking for me. I'm like, I almost can't believe it. Well, we had to go and find his tweets. We had to dig him up because we have, like the first one here is from February 23, 2012. And he says, having no school is awesome. Get to watch Jeremy Lynn highlights over and over again. Then March 31st, 2012, can't believe Jeremy Lynn is hurt.

Hashtag all caps, Nick's season over. And then July 5th, 2012, no, all caps, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point. Jeremy Lynn is leaving my next, exclamation point, exclamation point, hashtag sad day for the next, hashtag need him as a knickerbocker. Those three tweets, insanity, your injury, the rockets thing we just described. He was going through that in real time. Yeah. And when I think of towns and I think of your story, what you just trace the arc of, this relationship you had with your parents,

and particularly your mom, and this search for identity, and frankly trying to prove your toughness, that's the story of Carl Towns too. Yeah, yeah. Someone who lost his mom during COVID, someone who, his voice, people made fun of it. This guy is trying to pretend like he's Kobe,

like he's tougher than he is. Yeah. And I was thinking to myself, that is, whether you realize it or not, that is also your trajectory and your journey. The thing is, like, what is toughness, what is strength? What is manliness? Like, toughness is just different than what society really describes as toughness.

And to me, it's like, Carl Anthony Towns is soft. Carl Anthony Towns doesn't play defense. You can't win with Carl Anthony Towns. The guy is rewriting his narrative every year. It's just, are you paying attention? Right? Like, this is not the first time that Kat has risen to the occasion. He's done that in the past against the best players.

Right? And his series against Yokic, there's been multiple bigs where when it comes time to it, he rises to the occasion and he's doing that with Wembe right now. But it's also him anchoring the defense. It's also him in the locker room or him in the timeouts and him and the sound bites that you are now getting to hear because he's miced up because of the NBA finals. Until the offense catches up, we got to keep playing defense this way.

We're at 34% for them. We got to keep playing defense this way. This will win us the game. Our offense will always catch up. It didn't game one in Cleveland. We'll be fine. His ability to be able to do these things is very different than the super loud, rah, rah, I'm in your face and the clickbait or social

things where it's like, you know, I'm getting in fights and what, it's different, right? So he has this inner strength and this inner toughness and this quiet confidence. But that doesn't make him less confident than the person that's like, that's more expressive about it. You know, that's what takes time to be able to see. Kat is extremely strong. Cat is extremely tough, and Kat rises to the occasion, and he has been doing that, and that's why he's so successful. And now he's getting the credit that he deserves.

Well, it reminds me this larger point about, like, there is toughness as defined by what someone overcame in their personal life in privacy that no one else from the outside ever knew or appreciated because it is personal to them. Whether it's the death of your mother, as Carl Towns experienced, whether it's... you overcoming the specific beats of your story that we've just outlined. I have a soft spot, I think, for people who others thought they could bully, they could push around, who not only end up being great on the court, but also emerge on the other side of it, super introspective and even more confident in what it means to be vulnerable. Like that's the story of

This team too I love Cat and what he's saying too Like right now how he's answering those questions I don't want to sound sugar coding or anything like that But Shaq you know you would know what I'm saying I don't know what it was But I just felt a calm and a piece

That I don't know had to be come from the woman above So I felt really confident about today I felt good You know I I I felt like a kid. It felt like it was just fun out here. This is something that as a kid you always dream about. You always hope that you just hope to be an NBA player,

let alone to be in the NBA finals. And all day, it was just a weird feeling. It felt like I was a kid getting ready to go play my Saturday AAU games and Sunday AAU games. And in a way, I felt like I was seeing her in the stands. And it was just, it was fun. It was really fun. And it was really comforting.

I'm just like, how can you not root for this guy? How can you not root for this guy? How can you not root for this Nick's team, too? Like, Brunson gave up $113 million. That's not a normal thing, guys. Like, that's not talked about enough, you know? It's like, he put his money where his mouth is to assemble a team of people that, you know, he could have better stats if he doesn't give up $113 million and he shoots even more shots, right?

Like, I know he's getting a lot of shots, but I'm just saying it could be even more. Like, Kat sacrificing his stats and his shot attempts and his points to be able to do that. Mikhail Bridges had a bigger role in other places and was able to do more. And now he's kind of at the whim of when the ball gets swung to me and when I touch it. And last night, game three, I don't touch it as much. So I only get like, you know, four shot attempt. It's just this team. How can you not root for this team?

That is winning culture. That is winning stuff. Whether they win the championship or not. is one thing. But that doesn't mean that they don't have winning habits and winning culture. And that doesn't mean that they're not there. They're extremely, extremely tough.

And I love everything about these Knicks. Yeah. I love that you, without even you getting on television and screaming it, that you're also just a through line here, that you're part of the connective tissue that connected Carl Towns to this team as a fan that showed the garden that this place can be better. It can be louder. It could be more intimidating.

And now you get to actually be there in person. It's just, look, part of what I was always trying to do when I was covering you was figure out, like, what is the best ending to this story? And I think the one that you envisioned, the one that I envisioned, it had you staying here in New York the whole time. But what this is instead in the way that, of course, none of us could predict, it's just poetic in its own way. Totally. And it's cosmic in its own way. Totally. I didn't realize.

I've covered you since 2010. And if you were to tell me that in 2026, this conversation would feel like it was meant to be in its own way, I would not have believed that either. Would I have loved to stay on the next? Yeah. You know, longer and blah, blah, blah, blah. There was kind of, as you said, our dream of what it would look like. But this is the perfect ending to that chapter. sense of our lives are always meant to kind of progress and evolve. Can we go to places? Can all

humans go to places and leave it better than when we first got there and pass the torch? We were never meant to kind of just go to places, do things, and that's the peak and that's the end. We all evolve. And so your goal is to leave a place better than when you got there and to continue to pass the torch. And everything in life is about loving other people. serving the next generation, preparing the world, and preparing the next crop of young people. There were so many Knicks legends that did what they did. They built MSG and the Knicks to what it was. I was able to be a very small part of that story.

And hopefully I left it better than when I got there. And now they're continuing to take this Nix franchise further than we could ever have taken it. And because of that, we get to heal along the way. Like, it is extremely, extremely poetic. And in many ways, it is so unifying in a very divine. divisive, hostile, time in society, in this world. But when it comes to the next, we are one. And that is beautiful.

Jeremy Lynn, I just want to thank you for being a way better quote than you used to be. Thanks for the patience, man. Thanks for the patience. Thanks for being in my corner. It only took 16 years. This has been Pablo Torre finds out. A Metal Arc Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.

Do you do that.