Pablo Torre Finds Out - Maury Povich and Connie Chung Love Each Other to Death

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

He's always early; she's always late. She holds grudges; he doesn't. But after more than 40 years together, this TV power couple has learned to take the work seriously — and themselves less so. The recovering sportscaster and principled anchor pass through the studio to settle beefs, count Nick Cannon's children and take stock of a news business run by billionaires. Plus: Tony Kornheiser's emotional support animal, feigning incredulity... and a five-pack pre-roll for five bucks.Further content:• Subscribe to "On Par with Maury Povich"• Read "Connie: A Memoir"• Pablo and Maury on "We Playin' Spades" with Nick Cannon & Courtney Bee• Previously on PTFO: The News Anchor America Needed• Previously on PTFO: Sex, Lies, and Longevity with TV Legend Maury Povich Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is. Why are you being so nice? You haven't been nice all week. Well, neither have you. Right after this ad. Is it possible that Connie gets here late, but then leaves later? Absolutely.

So I do want to clarify for the audience what's happening here is that we're going to get one period of just you. Mori Popovich talking shit about Connie Chung. No problem. And then at some point, you're going to get out of here. Right. Because I have my podcast to do. I know, because you're on par with Moripovich. Because you're a media magnate.

I mean, I'm going to do the same thing you do when you substitute on PTI, you know. I got the sign right here. On par with Mori Poetch on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, all of your social media platforms. How dare you? How dare you? you throw shade at my unrepentant promotion of this show on every possible platform. Wow. In fact, I was shocked the other day when Wilbonn wasn't there. And so you're always Tony's partner. And then you didn't show up. I was not there. It must have been a very

important place you were. I was traveling somewhere and was very heartbroken to not be Tony Kornhizer's emotional support animal. Right. That's something I really do value the exclusivity of, the intimacy of that relationship. You don't go on with Wilbon mostly. Wilba won't have me. Maybe you can put a word in. No, he wants the other guy.

He wants Frank Isola. He wants Frankie Ice. He's a different kink. His thing is a different thing. But this thing, by the way, this thing, you have to help me explain to the audience how long I've been trying to put this summit together. Starting in the spring, maybe. But last year.

Yeah. I mean, literally the first time you came on the show, I was like, what if we get... Wait a second. We've never appeared together on your show. No, no, no. You, me, and your better half. Yeah. The three of us have not done this.

No. Came on the show. Connie's been on your show. I've been on your show. It's the fact that you would want us together. Very brave. Well, I've been warned against it. It's not.

I mean, she's going to show up here. And I will be clueless. as to what's going to come out of her mouth. And quite frankly, I mean, I'll tell you, I'll even tell her, when she, we are in the we don't like each other's stage right now. So far, that checks out based on something's going on. I don't know, maybe it's in the water,

but, you know, we've been married for over 40 years. We love each other to death, but quite frankly, there are times we do not like each other. And I think this is one of those times. This podcast is one of those thoughts. And when she comes on, you'll understand it. She pays me much, just grief. A lot of grief.

I feel like that general observation is most substantiated by the fact that this chair is empty right now. I know. I mean, I'm looking at the empty chair, and quite frankly, it looks good. I'll tell her when she comes in that we've been discussing how we don't like each other these days. And I'm going to immediately turn on you and take her side just you're aware of the dynamic. It's going to happen here. I mean, yeah. I'm going to abandon you immediately.

There's a time in the life of a couple where you just don't know how to handle it. You know, you're kind of walking on eggshells. I can go sign this personally. Right. You know that? But what I relate to, and part of, again, my genuine love for your love, such as it is, is that you guys are both incredibly individually accomplished, busy people with trajectories. that I know based on both the book that Connie read,

which you talked about the last time she was here, and also from my friendship with you, such as the time we beat Nick Cannon and Spades together recently. Boy, was that an overwhelming victory. I mean, not close. I'm undefeated. I haven't played Spades in 50 years, maybe 60. We got to pull these out because y'all beat the draws off.

Oh, my God. Oh, my Lord, look at that. You got to be a song. Congratulations, Pablo. They got a sign the draw. I would say that the two of us together made history. Yes, we did. We made podcast history.

Yeah. But he was a gracious loser. A gracious loser. And I would beat him again. I would happily go back and defend our title. You know, I knew about Nick a little bit. He's some entrepreneur. You're talking about him just in terms of like his sperm?

Or you're talking about in terms of his actual business? But, I mean, all of his business ventures. Oh, yeah. He's huge. Well, look, the guy is. is in all fields prolific. Yeah, absolutely, especially when he's counting up his five-year-olds and three-year-olds. I keep on forgetting how many kids Nick Cannon has.

I'm looking it up now. It's 12, I think. It's 12. And he had some number in the same year, which we talked about. And thankfully, he allowed us to remain, even though you dug in with your dogged reporting. I had to. I mean, you know, COVID. COVID was a hell of the time.

COVID produced a lot of dogs for people. A lot of dogs, a lot of podcasts, and in Nick Cannon's case, multiple lovely, beautiful children whose names he absolutely can tell you on command. Which is good. Which is impressive, and I don't know if I could do the same. So let me turn it back on you. Why? Why are we doing that?

Well, first of all, I know all about your investigations into the basketball stuff and gambling and stuff. Yeah. Did you expect it to bleed into baseball? I am unsurprised because, I mean, Maury, when you can pitch a, whatever, a mile per hour slower than what the line is, the legal gambling operator set line is, and you can make people money,

the incentive is so appealing. If you're the least bit unconcerned with the integrity of the sport, you can easily convince yourself, I can get away with this. Right. Once all these exotic bets came, you knew that there's going to be trouble. Can you imagine if people could bet on whether or not someone would be the father?

When it comes to four-month-old Dane, Andrew, you are not the father. Guess what? Shaquille O'Neill and his buddies watch my show all the time, bet lots of money with each other. Distracts. To find out whether they were the father or not. was a great lover of the show, and he and his buddies would all watch and bet. Mori, you could have been leaking inside information to one of Shaq's entourage members and just totally cleaned them out. You know, it's very interesting about the show. I've talked to many,

many professional athletes, even football players. Hold on. Your wife's calling you. Oh, boy. Okay, I'm starting the show without you. You're three minutes away. Can you tell, ask them to send somebody to the lobby? Send somebody to the lobby. Okay, we'll do that. Right. So that I can just sail in. You're right.

Guess what? I'm on with Pablo right now. Hi. You're part of this. Hello. So he's going to talk to me. Then we're going to talk together. Then you're going to stay and talk to him alone and I can leave.

Can I stay with Pablo for the rest of the day? Yes. I've already been talking, honey. I want to prepare you for this because I've told Pablo I've been very honest and transparent. We love each other to the desk, but quite frankly, these days we don't like each other. That's absolutely true, Pablo. I had a few meltdowns with Mori this past weekend. Because, because, because.

Okay. Hard to blame you so far. We can explain to everybody how these. our periods of our life that we just try to get over. Yes. Okay. Well, that's a hell of a tease. I'll see you.

Somebody will be down to meet you. Yes. I'm glad that she was okay with me telling you that we're not liking each other these days. Now I've got to figure out with all these becausees. No, you're not going there. You better not. Oh, boy. No, it's just internal matters.

You sound like an athlete who was like we had a player's only meeting. Yeah. Oh, so talking about that. Yes. I even had to verify this with various people. The show would come on in the morning all around the country. NFL players would be in the locker room, getting ready for practice. The coaches are upstairs.

They want to get them out on the field, and they won't come out until they find out who the father is. I sat at the Super Bowl last year, and behind me was Warren Sapp. I said, this is what I've been told. And Warren said, absolutely, we wouldn't go out there. until we found out who the father was. So you're responsible. You yourself, your show has been responsible

for the underperformance of various athletes throughout time. You are a one man gambling scandal. Oh, yeah, right. Oh, boy. Hi, honey. Nice to see you. Good to see you. Hi, Pablo.

Wow. Hello. This is, I'm excited. I got a kiss. How are you? Thank you for being here. It's cold outside. I know, honey.

I don't need it right now. I know. I know. Okay. Why are you being so nice? You haven't been nice all week. Well, neither have you. Hi, Pablo.

I'm here to take your side in all arguments. I'm here to totally betray the friendship that I have with your husband. Thank you. It's not close. Who's right in this argument? Thank you. Thank you. We met before.

We did. Patrick. Nice to me to do it again. Can I stand up? Of course. No. Why, honey, my back. Oh, is it bad?

Oh, well, no, it's always bad. Okay. Is that, did you... Yeah, that's okay. Is it okay, Pablo? You did it last time. You're more than whatever. It's a little better.

Good. Hi, honey. How are you? How are you? Can I stand with Mori? Can Connie Chung stand next to Mori Povich? Oh. Unfortunately, no.

No. Okay, I have to go. This mark here. Oh, sorry. That's okay. There's always a mark, Connie. Come on. Yeah.

Let us explain to you how television works, the two of you. It's a medium in which people need to cover edits when one of you curses horrifically. No, we'll leave it all in. We're going to leave it all in. Is the not-like period over? Oh, yeah, yeah. Not on this end. Oh, geez.

Oh, thank you. You walked into a trap, Connie. I did. This entire scenario was in a... I'll hold it up. You've been holding me up for years. Hi, Pablo. You look great.

I love that every time you're like, can I do this thing? And what that thing involves is you showing that you have endurance that far outpaces the other people in this room. No, no, it's not a test of endurance. It's that I have a bad. back. And when I sit down forever, then I can't get up and walk. It's, you know. It's a degree of athleticism that is not typically shown in the studio is my point.

Hi, Pablo. Hello. I've been waiting for this. Why do you like him so much? You know what? He is really smart. He's cool. He's got a sense of humor. Why are you looking at me? No, he's very much like you. Oh, thank you. Wow. Thank you both. Wow. I'm impressed. I was impressed with Pablo the first time I saw him on ESPN. Now, you were impressed when you looked him up and found out he went to Harvard and all that stuff.

No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not true. As soon as I saw him on ESPN, on PTI. Probably Wilbon and. Cornheiser. Huh? Pardon the interruption.

It was on pardon the interruption, I'm pretty sure. and he was really good. Yeah. And I said, Mori, who's he? And I said, he's Pablo. Yeah. And he said coldly, he's Pablo.

And then I said, I see a little bit of ethnicity there. I did a genetic test. Oh, you did? You did? Yeah. And what happened? What'd you find out? I'm like 11% Chinese.

Now she's ready to move in. I mean, 11% better. It's even better. So there's a little, there's like trace amounts of Spanish. But, you know, but the Philippines suffered the way China suffered at the hands of the Japanese, so, you know. Accurate. Very, very true. I didn't bring you guys here to talk about geopolitical history, though.

But did you know that Mori is such a history buff and political expert? Seriously. Stop, stop it. He's very, very into all things. I'll tell you what I'm reading now. I'm reading this book by Andrew Ross Sorkin called 1929. Yeah. And I'm reading it because is it going to happen again?

And, you know, is this bubble, whatever, whatever, everybody, everybody. You know, Bernard Baruch used to say, when the elevator operator is telling you what stock to buy, watch out. We hired a witch to curse artificial intelligence for our Halloween episode. Oh, really? That's a great idea. And I think it's happening. I'm here to report that I think the curse worked. Yeah.

Which is to say, if we, if the economy collapses. Because of AI. It might be because of us, I guess, in retrospect. Maybe that wasn't what we wanted to curse. Yeah, our 401k's apologies to America. Pablo, how are you? I'm pretty good. Yeah?

I'm a little, you know, people ask me, how are you doing? And sort of the subtext of it is, has anyone tried to assassinate you? Right, I was going to say, I mean, it must be a lot of blowback, right? A lot of people with lots of money wish that I would stop. Is there any owner that still takes your calls? Yes. Really? Yeah.

You guys know how this works, though? Yes. Because I think there is, I don't know, I'm on my training wheels version of this. You guys did this for decades. But once people know that you do this kind of thing, the incoming of like, hey, you should know this other sort of thing happens. Oh, oh. So as much as I am, I don't know, this strange, I don't like being known as like the grim reaper of sports journalism, I guess. If I'm calling, bad things are happening to you.

It's incredibly admirable. But I do enjoy that behind the scenes, yeah, there are people who are very supportive and are here to, I don't know, share information that I get to vet and decide, is this also something worth doing? So. I can't believe how many incidents. there are right now. I mean, there's just a plethora of them. And you remember why Mori decided that he just couldn't continue in sports?

I started out in TV as the 10 o'clock news sportscaster in Washington on Channel 5, where my hometown. And I used to cover the then-Washington Redskins, and George Allen was the coach. He was kind of a... He was kind of a Belichick before Belichick, kind of a guy. You know, never liked reporters and everything. Got yoga very late in life.

Right. So one day I'm in the locker room, and I see, and this is the 70s, okay? And so in the 70s, there are a lot of stories about drugs that players were using these illicit drugs in order to pump up and other stuff, have cocaine outside the game and all that. And so there's this bottle of pills. and it could have been salt pills. I mean, I didn't know. I mean, who know?

So I said, coach, can you tell me what's in that bottle? And he says, Mari, this is 1973. He says, Mari, are you with us or against us? And I said to myself, I got to get out of sports. I just got to. How did my father do it for 75 years? I got to get out of sports. If you have to have a loyalty test, I'm in big trouble.

And that's when I went to news. I dare say that a lot of people have decided to be with them. Yes. Yes. I asked Jeff Perlman, okay, who I had on my show, another great sports writer and stuff. Sports Illustrated author. And writes great books. Yes.

So I said to Jeff. I said, does this still happen? He said, absolutely. Oh, yeah. I would say more than ever. Mm-hmm. And by the way, you see that, of course, in news, actually. By the way, what's it like to watch CBS right now?

We don't. I mean, I can't. The paradigm has completely changed in news, and we have so much opinion that the truth doesn't hold value anymore. And what we end up doing is trying to, we as consumers, trying to find the truth. We can't find good old-fashioned. facts and it distresses me so terribly. CBS is a whole different organization that I had worked for.

CBS has now been taken over thanks to greedy owners, Sherry Redstone, partnering with David Ellison, Larry Ellison's son. And their greed has caused the venerable CBS. to actually disassemble, to crash into crumbles. And then they've hired this, I don't know what to call Barry Weiss. I don't either. You know, I just don't know.

Yeah, but she's, you know, we'll see. It's not a big we'll see as if she could possibly restore. She was there the other day when Trump goes on 60 minutes. I thought it was a decent interview. It was okay. You're talking about Nora O'Donnell's interview? Yes. Well, part of my concern, by the way, and I find it very, if I were you, I'd find it very difficult

to watch the administration of CBS News wear the costume of CBS News. Getting to cosplay to pretend that nothing is different, even though the very premise of their acquisition of the network was, in fact, at the discretion. and blessing of the president who was the interview subject in that video that we're describing. That's right. And so just the very basic premise of that

feels very hard to stomach if you care about anything resembling ever serial. If you care about serious news. When I worked at CBS, who was owned by William Paley, and he actually made it a point of allowing the news division to be autonomous and not have to worry about

the Guatemalan. He had a president by the name of Frank Stanton, who went before Congress time and time again to defend the fourth estate. Now we have a complete dismantling of that kind of social responsibility, that we are watchdogs. We reporters are watchdogs of government. It's our job to report to report information that is not fed to us. So when the Pentagon reporters walked out en masse because they were forced to actually sign these promises that they would not. A loyalty test almost literally written down.

Yeah. It was just appri-I mean, it was repulsive. And I'm so glad that they walked out. I think it's so important what those Pentagon. You have to say the same thing about White House reporters. They're trying to do their job. They're trying to do their job. And they're being muzzled.

I am reminded of, of course, Connie's interview of the aforementioned president of the United States back when he was merely one of the most prominent businessmen and celebrities. Yeah. This was April 1990 on face-to-face with Connie Chung. And when you're here the last time, we played some of it back. But the aftermath I don't think I ever asked you about. because what happens on CBS is that there's a rear of the interview, this very adversarial interview

with Connie is truly holding him to account and calling him out on his bullshit and actually talking about the bullshit and how you are calling him out on it as it's happening about how much he didn't like publicity and talking about Woolman Rink, the skating rink in Central Park

and his buildings, he has this posture about it. There's no reason to expose yourself to millions of people. There's no... Did you know why you? You do it? Why, tell me.

You love the publicity. Oh, I hate the publicity. Oh, come on, get out of here. Oh, no, I'm telling you, I hate the publicity. Oh, please. I hate it. And except for the fact that it's fun as a sparring session, I mean, this would normally not even be fun.

This is, this is fine and this is fun. No, but come on. No, you're on all these covers of Playboy fame. I mean, it, you have to be, it happens to be, it happens to be, or both. It happens to be good for what I do. But then in August. CBS re-ares it, and Donald Trump rips you. Yes.

And I'll read just the quote that Donald Trump gave to the Joan Rivers show a month after the rebroadcast, because the quote was, this woman has less talent than anybody I know of. Called you a disaster, said you interviewed like a little child, and then he said this, she sent me roses afterward, and I won't tell you what I did with the roses. And then Joan Rivers says, hold on, what are you saying? What did you do? He then proceeds to reveal, quote, I cut him up and sent him back.

I sent her back the stems. Actually, I did. End quote. Now, wasn't that an incredibly balsy move? With a rose tree. Well, yes, you know why? I sent him flowers because the day after I, I interviewed him on a particular day.

We weren't going to air it until we edited it. So on the day I interviewed him, I said, I had asked him who his friends were and does he have a best friend? And he hemmed and hawed and he said, Well, I have so many different friends, and it would be hard to say a best friend. Is your wife Ivana a best friend? She's a great friend. The very next day,

It was announced that they were getting divorced, and he was already having a very public affair with Marla Maples. So I sent him flowers, and I said, don't you think you need to correct the record? And the only way I could get his attention was to send him flowers. If I just sent him a note, would he actually get it and read it? That's what the origin of the flowers was. Did he send them back to you cut up? See, I don't remember that at all. But what he said about her, the way he criticized her, is the same way he criticizes reporters today.

Today, yeah. Asking the same kinds of questions, hard questions. He says, you're the worst reporter ever. Your network is worse. You're a third-rate reporter. And that's what he does. Well, that's what he said to Megan Kelly. Her response, it turned out over time, was very different from your response over time.

What was her response? Her response was, at the time, I believe, was to take that as an affront. And then over time was to truly join the team. Oh, yeah. I mean, she, without question. The George Allen test, she decided I'm going to be on that side of things. Are you with us or against us? I'll just be with you.

That's the way it seems to me as a matter of who does what when they get challenged. Can I wrap up my section in about three minutes? and then you can have her to do yourself. Well, let's hold on. Let's just settle a couple of outstanding beefs here. Okay. Because when you say that Connie doesn't like you right now, yes.

What did you do? What did I do? Yeah, what did you do? I don't even want to ask because I'm clueless. No, you're not. I'm walking. You know, I made it very clear. What camera can I look into just to...

I'm not talking about this. No, he's incredulous. He's feigning incredulity. Oh, Jesus, that was a tough word. Wasn't it? Jesus, how'd you get that one out? I almost didn't get it out. Yeah, that's a very tough one.

Mori, stop it. Mori, what did you do? I'm not going to talk about it. I didn't do anything. There was not one thing. It's just my attitude. It's my general attitude. I mean, come on.

I mean, I'm allowed to have an attitude. Yeah. Not according to you. No, no. No. Me too, me too. Well, I know you have an attitude. That's why I'm not too sure I like you these days.

I will say visually speaking, it does sort of replicate Connie standing and you sitting. You are a student at school being... Look, for 40, almost 41 years, I've been Mr. Chung, okay? I admit it. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm okay. I don't mind it. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm fine being Mr. Chung. You always had the big name when we got married. I was just this nothing, you know, little local anchor in Washington and you were the big star. Okay, fine. I accepted it and I was Mr. I've been Mr. Chung ever since and I accept it. No, no, no, no. I've been Mrs. Povich for a long time, too. You've, you've, huh? Povich is not part of your name. You have been Connie Chung.

There is no Connie Chung povich. It's been Connie Chung. You've kept your entire name. Fine. I don't care. That's fine. I just didn't feel I looked like your mother. So anyway, this is going to be the best part of my day.

It's been fine until she came in. But the best part of my day, I'm going to interview a great actor. William H. Mason. Are you promoting your podcast on my podcast? Yes. You're evading, not only are you evading my investigative reporting. You are promoting. I wish I had the sign so I could do the same thing you do on PTI, but I don't.

Anyway, nice to be with you all. Oh, Maury. Do you have to go? Did I have to go? Should have gone about a minute and a half ago. Is that it? I'll see you tonight at the salon. We're going to watch the head of CNN.

And then later on, I'll cuddle. You will cuddle? Yeah, let's cuddle. Really? Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Just remember I also told Pablo, you still hold grudges. Yeah.

I get the sense. I get the sense. I'm sorry. You know. It's been a delight. Thank you. Bye. Shaking hands.

Yeah. Nice to meet you. See you all later. Let's do something from the world of sports. I need you to give me the three worst things about being married to Moripovich. The three worst things about him? Yeah, we're going to power rank the three worst things about being married to Mori Popovich that only Connie Chung would know. Okay.

He cannot multitask. He can do one thing at a time. Number two, he compartmentalizes, which I envy. Men have the capacity to compartmentalize. Women worry about everything all the time. They worry about work at home, and at home they worry about work. So I admire the fact that he can compartmentalize, but I am so envious it makes me crazy.

I think the third thing is that he can do most sports that I can't, just by virtue of the fact that he's tall and strong. If I were to play golf with him, I would want to try to beat him, and I know I can't. Basketball is a little bit better, but he's taller, and if he's guarding me, I have very little chance. What are Mori Popovich's priorities in the year 2025? Okay. It's number one, golf, number two, golf, number three, golf. And that's it. When I wanted to schedule this interview, the summit, I mostly realized that I just needed to work around his golf schedule. Yes, it's true. But, you know what? I admire him so much because he decided that when he stopped determining the paternity of every child in America,

that he would play golf, and he did that. But he believed very strongly and used it or lose it. So he didn't think he was exercising his brain, as well as he was exercising his body. And I think that's great, because he can keep sharp by doing his podcasts, and he loves to do interviews, and he's really good at it. Oh, of course.

I mean, what's not in question is that Mori can still outwork. anybody who's like 40 years younger than him that is not the question to me exactly and the other thing if I may um I without him I would not have had a career hold on I don't understand that part what do you mean every step of the way when I was beaten up by I don't know people who thought they had more power than I did and they did actually have more power or that they had bigger egos and didn't want me to be on their level. I would come home and Mori looked at this, what I call a resting bitch face. Mori would pour me a stiff scotch and we'd sit and we'd talk.

And he would talk me off the ledge. Basically, his message was, don't take your critics seriously. don't take your naysayers seriously. Don't take your press seriously because I was getting a little skewered in the press, a lot scared. He would say, don't take yourself seriously, but take your work seriously. And that's what I did. And I can tell you really that if it had not been for Mori, he was like a partner who helped me every step of the way. Part of what I want our audience to appreciate about you is that as if it needs to be reset on this show, but you were the first woman to co-anchor the CBS Evening News.

You're the first Asian person, the second woman ever to anchor a major network newscast. And the competition in the business, the idea that you are very, I mean, you present, of course, is very pleasant to be around, but lots of people regarded you as a threat. Yeah. My competitors were mostly men. They didn't look at me as a colleague, and I am a minority, and I am a woman. And because of that, I think that they were expecting acquiescence. And I don't know where I got this feeling that I didn't have to count out to them, and I acted as if I was their equal.

But a friend of mine said to me, the first one through the door faces the heaviest gunfire. So I think that Barbara Walters, who paved the way for all of us, experienced extraordinary gunfire. And when I came along, because I was not white, I faced a different kind of gunfire because people were expecting, my colleagues were expecting me to stand down. And I just couldn't bring myself to stand down. Oh, yeah.

I mean, but by the way, like what you said about what Morey's advice was, which is take your work seriously, but take yourself less so. Yes. Is a creed that I also, part of what the reason I think you're, you know, not just a legend in my book,

but like a kindred spirit, it is because of that specific. mentality. Like, you can do real work, but also laugh at yourself and each other. Oh, good God, yes. I mean, we, you know how somewhere

people would call those of us who are on the air talent? Right. That is ridiculous. And I don't know where they got this because we don't have talent. We just, we have a brain,

we want to report news. equally fairly. We tell one side, we tell the other side and what we're doing is presenting it to the public and asking them to make their judgment on what they believe is true or

right or whatever. But we gather as much truth as we can and we impart it to them. What I wanted to do is, you know, the kind of investigative reporting that you're doing in sports. It's so admirable. Investigative

reporting is so satisfying, so gratifying, because you've uncovered something that nobody else has uncovered, and you're revealing information that people wanted to conceal. And that's what we're supposed to do, particularly with government when it comes to politics and news. Yes. Because every single administration, not just this one, has covered up secret information that they want to hold near and dear to their hearts. We in the public know full well that they are lying. And we need to call it when they do lie. I'm so worried about our news business these days because we're just not, we're not standing up to the standards that we were taught. At some point, I wonder if you can identify when you started feeling this, because I've been sort of swimming in it for years now. I don't know exactly when it.

it changed. Okay. But there was something to the old George Allen story that Morrie was telling where being in conflict with someone in power gave way to wanting to get along with them.

Mm-hmm. And I just, I don't know, I grew up thinking that, like, journalists are supposed to do the thing that makes the powerful person at the very least a little uncomfortable. Yeah. Oh, yes.

And you embodied that. Your interviews, I mean, in our clinics. But, like, listen, I've been investigating Steve Balmer. Yeah. Of course, one of the ten richest people in the world at last check, the richest owner in all of sports. But I go back and I rewatched your interview of Bill Gates.

Ah. His fellow... Oh, he walked off. So remind me, remind us what it was like to get the founder of Microsoft, who was, of course, Steve Balmer's classmate and also his close friend and the guy that Balmer ultimately succeeded as the CEO of Microsoft. What was it like to interview him? We were so impressed with him,

but it was at a time when Microsoft was gobbling up small companies and should have been just like Rockefeller and, you know, the oil companies, they should have been called on it. A lot of people make the analogy that competing with Bill Gates is like playing hardball. I'd say it's more like a knife fight. I've never heard any of these things.

things. You know, you're saying like knife fight, that's silliness. It's childish. I mean, why be a mouthpiece for that kind of silliness? Why doesn't he just say them anyway? Because it has nothing to do with the patent lawsuit. So I was peppering him with questions about these power-hungry moves that he was making against small companies. And he actually walked out. He walked out of the interview. People did not remember that because one more wonderful thing that he did was he was able to jump over a chair from a standing position. And it was so remarkable that it was remembered. It was chiseled in YouTube history. He does have at least one secret, but we'll fix that. Is it true that you can leap over a chair from a standing position?

It depends on the size of the chair, but this chair, probably so. Will you do it? Yeah, I don't know what the microphone on if it's doable. Watch the light, okay? I'll cheat a little bit. Yes! I took a step before I did it. That's okay.

Yes, so what's so funny about that is that I think of Gates now as like the forerunner, obviously, to someone that, by the way, I went to college with Mark Zuckerberg. Oh, yes. It became the new avatar and the social network and the Facebook and all that. Yes. And Mark Zuckerberg now is like, he's pivoted to like. mixed martial arts and he's like working out and he's surfing and he's trying to reassert, I would say, his masculinity. And then I go back and watch your interview with Gates and I'm like, Bill Gates was doing the same

thing. Basically saying, look at how high I can jump. Oh my God. And it's shame on all of these people who have billions of dollars and they are cowtowing with no integrity, no principles to the, Trump administration. I'm embarrassed for them, but you had asked a question. You were trying to reach back and try and figure out when the pendulum swung so wildly off course. Because you were a standard and a template, Walter Cronkite was. The other men that you were competing with, by the way,

at the very least, the premise was they were of a certain perspective of how to hold powerful people accountable. And then at some point, flash forward to today, the smash cut, something happened in between. And I don't know what. This is my take on what happened. When William Paley sold CBS to Larry Tisch and when Capitol Cities and then ultimately Disney took over ABC and then when General Electric took over NBC, prior to that, there was some. social responsibility. But when GE and Disney and Larry Tish took over, the bottom line became so important

that we had, we in news divisions had to grovel for ratings so that the network three would be able to charge more from advertisers. So the money we made was more important than the news we covered. That's what happened. And now it has reached a point of which of no return. of what I think has happened, as we think back at your interview with Bill Gates, is that at some point, every media company gave way to ultimately a very, not just corporate ethos when it came to like the stock chart and what matters and what comes at the expense of it, but also the perspective and the mentality of tech companies. Like tech companies are owning everything. All of us fundamentally who work in media work for tech companies now.

That's the ethos, that's the strategy, that's the competition we're trying to beat. And it is, like, the thing that I think about all the time is, at some point, don't you want to be the good guy in the documentary? Yeah, that's a great way to put it. I'm looking back at the stuff that you've done and the stuff that Mori's done, and I'm like, man, like, I would like to look back at an interview that I've conducted and be proud. I'm sure you have them. All I want to point out, though, is simply that part of what I am so tickled by when it comes to your relationship with Mori as this empty chair now signifies the nuances of this relationship is how you guys have truly, like, lasted and passed the test of time. There is something about how you have, by the way, when I was asking, like, what are you guys doing in Montana? part of the answer is not just

Maury's playing golf and you guys were fly fishing. You started a local newspaper. Oh, yes. I'm so proud of Maury. He created a newspaper more than a decade ago, probably 15 years,

almost 20. It was kind of a tribute to his father, who was a Washington Post or columnist and reporter for 75 years, a great writer. Shirley Povich, a legend in sports writing. He really was a legend. Along the lines of Redsmith.

The all-time greats, truly. Yes. He's in the Hall of Fame. And he was a lovely man. He was an extremely erudite, soft-spoken man with a great sense of humor. Mori is just like him, except he's not soft-spoken. It's a really good newspaper. The Flathead Beacon is a whitehead beacon.

Uh-huh. is a weekly paper serving Northwest Montana. Yeah. And it was started, as you put it, in 2007, 18 years ago now. What he did was he hired great journalists who report the news straight, even. They've gotten every single award that you can imagine from best investigative to best political reporting. I mean, all the good stuff. Yeah, it's been named the state's best large weekly, you know.

Yes. You know, more than 10 times, it seems like at this point. And I think the conclusion that we've, come to is that what you can trust are your local news. Yes. The newspapers are having such a hard time surviving, but any local newspaper or online newspaper is still trustworthy. Local news and television is still trustworthy.

And they're not stock prices owned by these massive multinational corporations. They do answer to their consumers and people know them. their neighbors, their community leaders. They know everybody and they trust them. I'm so impressed, if I may, with your podcasts and those who produce it because it's so clever and so smart. And the whole animated portion... Oh, when we jump in with the voiceover, the RPG menu is what we call it.

Nobody else does that, right? No. No one's weird or stoned enough to come up with that. device are they smoking Connie Chung weed? Oh, that's right. We are still on the hunt

for a fresh crop. You can get it online. You know, yeah. If you Google Connie Chung weed, it'll come up and there's a wonderful description of me. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think for a time

they were offering a five-pack pre-roll. That's right. For, is you like only $5 or something like that? It's an incredible deal. Yeah. An incredible deal. I couldn't believe that I had...

That you had, in fact, a potent strain with light green buds and flavors of earth and pine with a hazy head high. And of course, as we know, as any consumer of this show knows, it's a good strain to wind down with at the end of the night. Yeah. Has Moripovic smoked some Connie chunk? Only because it's you, Pablo, I will tell you that someone cross state lines.

And because I, you know, we can't, we can't order it online. That would not be good. I mean, you'd never. What would they think? What would they think if polite society were to discover this? Exactly. Somebody crossed state lines and brought it to us just a little bit, teeny little bit. And that somebody was able to mix it in a cigarette.

Oh, yeah. Right? So that it wasn't so potent. And I can't do this. I can't tell you. Why not? Now I'm going to hold you to account. Why can't, please allow me to dig into this.

So far, in my mental image, your husband, Mori Bovich, is smoking a spliff of Connie Chung, part tobacco, part you. And what's Mori like stoned on you? He, okay. He says, yeah, I don't want to do anymore. I mean, he took like one or two puffs. And he went, man, it was turned off to it. And I said, I don't feel anything. I feel nothing.

And so I said, I better take a few more tokes. Then I started laughing. I couldn't stop laughing. That feels like a bit of a metaphor for what has happened in this episode. Yeah? Mori said, I've had enough of this woman. Got the fuck out. And you stayed here and got to laugh a lot with me.

You caught it. Connie Chung, the legend, the better half of Mori Popovich, the scoundrel, with the booming voice, who also happens to be undefeated in spades with me when playing against Nick Cannon. It has been a pleasure to invade your personal lives. Well, I take offense that you got the weed story out of me. But it's only because it's you, Pablo. This has been Pablo Torre finds out.

A Metal Arc Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.