Pablo Torre Finds Out - Sex, Love, and One Sick Joke: A Special Sit-Down with Sue Bird and Megan Rapinoe

Episode Date: February 13, 2024

America's stratospheric sports power couple joins our Valentine's Day episode — part unnecessary couples therapy, part post-retirement exit interview — with down-to-Earth perspective on marriage, kids, the evolution of acceptance, the limitations of love language, and how to get some in a long-distance relationship. Plus: Trump, kneeling, the tragic humor of a career-ending injury, the metronome ringing in an athlete's brain, and the joy of not working out. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're going to find out what this sound is. Tell your sister's boyfriend, McCauley Culkin, to shut his damn mouth. It's like top five. It's top. Right after this ad. You're listening to Draft King's Network. The year was 2019. Megan was on a little bit of a run in the World Cup. I couldn't go because it was during the WMBA season, even though I was hurt. I couldn't go to the final. So I haven't seen Megan in, at that point, probably like a month and a half. And so I

fly to France for the final. I get there like the day before the game. So the night before the game is I'm seeing her for the first time in over, maybe more than a month and a half. Yeah. It's been a while. They're training. Pre-camp. So I go to dinner with some friends because they have meetings and video and film and things. And so I can't see Megan until, let's call it eight o'clock that night. So I'm at dinner with friends and we all went around the table. There was like, seven, eight of us. And the bet was like, is Sue going to get some tonight? The draft king's super boost.

Is Sue Burr going to get some tonight? Is like, are you guys going to hook up tonight? And I was kind of like, I was a little torn. I was like, I don't know. Like the girlfriend in me was like, of course. The athlete of me was like, eh, I don't know. We just, you know, we just did a hug it out. We just did a hug and kiss it out.

Roll around. Roll around a little. Yeah. On top of clothes, dry hump. Yeah. Something like that. Just some. You just said dry hump.

Yeah. Let's take a moment for that. Just some high, high end heavy petting. Mm-hmm. What everyone would call it. Mm-hmm. I served you guys a drink of your choice at the bar of the MetaLark Media Office. And now Megan Rubino and Sue Bird.

You guys are getting loosened up. Yeah. We're ready. I'm excited, too. Hold on. I want to do one thing. thing before I fully loosen up here. Yeah.

Sue heard it. You heard it too? Sue heard it. It's just that her voice came very faint. Probably you can do. Okay. I want to point out, actually, I want to start this way,

is that Sue Bird is already point guarding this podcast. Yeah. So, Megan, this is kind of a thing. Welcome to Megan's life. Yeah, welcome to my life. Right. We talk about this all the time because, and this is how I say it,

there is a very small, irregular tax that I have to pay that allows me to have Sue Bird as the point guard of my life. And this is how it shows up. Sometimes we get to JFK an hour earlier than we want to, which means like probably

no, like a half hour. In the like 30 to 45 minute range. And it's like, it's random. It's just irregular. It's small. I'm like, yeah. Who can navigate this? It could take you 30 minutes.

It could take you an hour in 30 minutes. Yeah. We'll configure this out. It's so nominal. It's just, it, but the rest of the time. I get you in that lounge, though. Okay. So we'll get back to the Delta Lounge in just a little bit here, but this is the place where I feel kind of compelled to just recap the medallion status, as it were, of Sue Bird and Megan Rapino, because Sue, first off, was a 13-time WMBA All-Star and a four-time WMBA champion and a five-time Olympic gold medalist. a two-time national champion at the University of Connecticut. Nobody in WNBA history has more assists than Sue Byrd.

Megan, on the other hand, won two World Cups for the United States, won both the Golden Boot and the Golden Ball, given to the top score and the best player, respectively, at the Women's World Cup. And she also won an Olympic gold medal. And also, the Presidential Medal of Freedom, you know, for the whole fighting for equal pay and equality. in general sort of thing. That made Megan the first soccer player

to ever receive that award. But the reason that I really wanted to have two of the greatest athletes of all time on the show together, just one day before February 14th, is simple. This is our Valentine's Day episode. I've invited, as I say,

stupidly excited for this to talk to you guys. We've hung out, but not with microphones on. So thank you for letting me be my favorite version of myself. which is messy and invasive. I love that. We watched the AFC title game together with friends.

That was fun. But this, I do want to get into like, can I ask some blunt questions? Sure. So like I've been trying to think of a comparison for your relationship in like sports history. Have you guys played that game? No, not really. Where it's like, okay, so you're already embarrassed by this. So forgive the bluntness.

Andre Agassi, Steffie Graff, right? Same sports are not quite the same, but you've got to be good enough to be into this conversation. And a lot of relationships have happened, but I would say that they have not been of the caliber. Of you two. Sue hates that.

Here's the question. Okay. Is athletic greatness for you guys in Afrodisiac? And I mean that. when you guys are contemplating, this is now the person that I'm falling for. Oh, no, I'm falling in love with them. Oh, no, I'm all of the things.

How much is actually being good at the sport you guys played? How much did that actually figure into how you felt? I have an answer. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. That's a good question. It's a part of it, right? And not because of the athletic piece of it.

I think, like, who, who Megan is, her success on the field is tied back to who she is in a lot of ways. The same way, like, I don't know, if somebody were killing it on Wall Street, that would have some sort of sex appeal to it. So I think it's you can't, like, I always say it's like, you show up in a room, you can't, you're not checking any of your identities at the door. Like, they come with you. Is it the reason?

No. But does it, like, make somebody attractive when they're great at something? Of course. I want to get to the personal aspect of like, also, you guys. guys are gay. Yeah. So gay. I love being gay. Pretty gay, yeah. What was coming out like? Looking back, in hindsight, I was definitely always gay and I wish someone would have just told me when I was like three so then I could have gotten on with it, but nobody did, which is not really anybody's place. And then I figured out that I was gay in college and I was like, oh my God. And then the whole world

made sense to me. And I feel like the world is sort of like made sense since then. And that really like threw me out of my shell and like gave me like a solid footing to stand on because I just I was kind of like things aren't really adding up like whatever they're saying in the movies I'm like I get it I guess I'm just haven't met the right guy I don't know this seems weird whatever and then I figured I was gay and I was like okay this makes sense and then I think from then I was like no this is awesome that's kind of my coming out story I don't have like uh is not a cinematic yeah I don't have like a struggle and I feel really fortunate for that like my family was pretty accepting we went

through some like early you know like oh what does this mean and like how are people going to treat you and just like you know it's all very uncertain and then everyone kind of like quickly got over it and it was like okay so I don't have that like sort of typical struggle story I don't think you really do either not totally but like we're only five years apart but the oh it's different times are very very Okay, wait, so speak to that, though, because I guess when you zoom out and you realize gay marriage was illegal. Yeah, yeah, wild. Not so long ago, all of this is sort of new, but even still within that five-year frame you're saying. This is the best way to tell it.

I vividly remember this. I graduated high school in 98. I graduate college in 2002. I would say both those experiences in women's sports. they were gay women around, you know, kind of like prototypical, the gym teacher, that kind of a thing. And it was always like, oh, my God, so-and-so is gay. Ooh, and we all essentially like gossiped about it. And then I remember hearing three, four years later, I'm now in the WMBA, hearing about other people who went to my high school or other people in college where they're open.

And it was like just in that short period of time, it went from gossip, which for me, especially in, college, I didn't want to be a part of the gossip. So there was, you know, a girl that I was hooking up with, but like, nobody knows that. Or no, well, now they do, but like nobody knew that. I would have died before I let any of my teammates know that, like, literally. I'm not, that sounds really dramatic, so I don't want to use that word lightly. But I literally would have gone to the grave, not telling anybody that. How, it was way different. It was just way different. How much work did that take to keep it among your teammates who you see all the time? sneaking around, a lot of lying, going to the mall.

Those that know will laugh at that. I'm going to the mall, guys. Yeah, true. What I am laughing at also, though, is just the presumption that like, but wait a minute, in women's sports, of course, like, you had to be closeted on my own, on the Yukon women's basketball team. Pretty much. It's not that, by the way, it's like, I'm trying to think that was anybody gay.

Like my senior year was anybody openly gay? No. Nobody on my team. Which again speaks to just the crazy amount of societal development. Yeah. Yeah. Just in five years. It happened really quickly.

Yeah. And I think it depends on, you know, where you are. I went to school in Portland and there was already people, you know, like on my visit that nobody was really talking about gay. But I was like, well, this feels different. Like, what are these, what are these ladies? Like, this is obviously very different. drinking out of now jeans and driving exterras looking gay you know but like in a different way yeah yeah the yellow one yeah but no it was very different i mean to your to your point about your

experience though it was kind of like everyone was kind of doing this low-key closeted thing so like nobody was going to poke too much nobody was going to ask too many questions because that's coming right back to you so i feel like you guys all kind of had like an under understanding like different to men sports still that's like I feel like these men because they're obviously out there feel like they're the only only only one and like they can't nobody can find out whereas I feel like you guys kind of knew like other people kind of were because you're obviously looking up with someone but like it was just sort of like low key but also it was like already in the world I was too focused on sneaking around to care about anything they were doing anyway like I was way more worried about

if they were going to quote unquote catch me, then thinking about where they were sneaking off to. That's another part of it. Yeah, true. You know? Yeah. So that's college. Yeah, that's college.

Then I get into, you know, the WMBA. I'm professional now. It takes probably by my second year in the WMBA. I've now like comfortable and confident in my sexuality. And I'm now telling friends, telling family. For the most part, like zero issues. There was a couple like, why didn't you tell me? me sooner. Not about you. That's the first. It's the quickest way to tell you, not about you.

But then there is the public coming out that didn't happen until I was 37, which is crazy. Is that right? Yeah. Okay, so explain that strategy. Yeah, it's not strategy. Okay. All the strategic things we've been discussing, there was zero thought about this. What was it? In terms of the public part, I think I was just caught in an old mentality of, like I said, keeping it private, but also this like marketing thing. Like people aren't going to like you if you're gay. So how did, how did the straight gays? G-A-Z-E.

Got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but the- I was like, ooh, straight gays, who are they? But how did that figure in? Like, the idea that, like, wait a minute, there, there's some, like, there's some, some dudes who, like, who think I'm hot or they want to, they're a fan of me or whatever it is.

I don't know what your presumption would have been. It was basically told to me that the only way I was going to have success from a marketing standpoint is to really sell this like straight girl next door. You have quote unquote the look. So these were things that were told to me. And at 21, I was afraid of like all of it. And I openly admit this. It's like the way I feel now about all of those conversations, I have opinions. I have thoughts.

I have no problem talking about them publicly. at 21, I was afraid. I don't want to give away all my secrets, but I'm pretty normal. People probably think that there's some crazy story behind the basketball player, but there's really not. I am Sue Bird. Take one. And now you're telling me that my career might not take off.

So I just had it in me that this wasn't something I would share publicly, even though I was living my life that way. And as far as the male gaze, GAS, GAS, I was aware of it. And I think you could even go back in some of my interviews. And I might even have said, in fact, I know I did, things like, well, yeah, like, sex does sell. And it's, but if we get people into the arena, then they'll appreciate the game. I mean, vomit. It's like, but I was scared.

I mean, like, that's just the truth of it. And this is what I'm being told. I knew what I felt, but that wasn't enough to override what I was being told. Whereas, like, now that feels different. And actually, a lot of times I get us, like, you know, like, how do you speak publicly about these things that were? And it's like because I missed 20 years of doing it. I like, you know, I'm not a 20, but like 15 years, I didn't say shit. I knew what I felt did.

I could see it. But I was quiet because I was scared. And it's like enough of that. Yeah. How much can you both laugh now at what the marketing used to be? Whoa. Way worse for me than you. Lucky.

You're so lucky you figured it out early. Yeah. Yeah. Way worse for you guys. And you have a lot more intersection. of like race and sexuality and what all that means and how you guys were marketed. I mean, we had that too, but we were like, you know, the pretty white girls next door. And you guys obviously have a lot of black women.

And there's just like a lot of racism and a lot of homophobia and so many of the things. I mean, I think we can, yeah, look back now and be like, okay, it is so much better. But it's still there. Oh, the question of like, how do we sell this game to the target demographic that we think we need? Yeah. And I think even just in men sports, like, if you're good in men sports, then you're the one that, like, gets the endorsements. Like, it doesn't matter really what you look like. Like, if you are, you know, sort of societally attractive, that's, like, a plus.

Yeah, the archetype from the movie. Yeah. Like, if you're not, it's also fine. But if you're amazing as a woman and you're not like quote unquote pretty by whatever that means, like it does hurt you. And if you are pretty by whatever that means, you're like turbo boosted as a woman. Like we just we still know that. And that is like still happening. So I think this this conversation for that reason is still like really important. I think it's a it's way more open. There's way more space for players to be themselves at such a younger age. I can see it with, you know, my. I was just going to call my teammates. They're my old teammates now and, like, younger players and just having those conversations way earlier and way more space. But it still very much exists.

And then obviously in men sports, I mean, there's no gay players. So, like, what? What do you mean? No. What? No. That is still, like, we're still deeply in the closet there. It's crazy statistic.

It's crazy. Right? It's like, guys, we don't believe you that there's nobody here? I know. And it's like, you're going to, yeah, like, it's, I mean, it's hard. I feel for them. No, it's so much fear. But it proves, it proves the point about how young this history is. Yeah.

Like, truly, like, you guys have lived it. Yeah. You just retired. And the people who are still dealing with it have not figured out yet either. And that turbo boost marketing thing, I want to go back to that just because Sue is cringing inside of her own like existence at like what what did that what do what as a traditionally pretty person as a as a traditionally pretty person yeah how would you for people who aren't familiar with the marketing campaigns and I did of course my research and I saw like the 76ers jersey

with the you got to explain this though for people who are not seeing this oh wait I have to explain it yeah it's a jersey dress there's a couple pictures from one photo shoot it was dime magazine and they were like racier at the time anyways like even some of the photos they did when they covered male basketball players were a little on the racier side or edgier side so that's kind of what they were doing i had to say no to like three other poses this is the stuff that you permitted there is more that crossed the line yeah wow and like one of them i had i didn't they wanted me to not have a shirt on at all and like cover myself in different ways i mean it's It's different with the ESPN body issue

because I felt like older and it was a choice and all these things. This felt this didn't feel that way. Like just to give it a little bit of a contrast. There's like space for being sexy or having sex. I hope that the takeaway

from this conversation is not those prudes. Yeah, no. Pretty sure that's not it. But to your point. It's supposed to be authentic. And I think that's the better way of saying it. Exactly. The theatricality of this is what it means to be.

I was like, and that's, and this particular. I'll never, I vividly remember the day. I was solo, so my agent wasn't with me. So this was on me, and I just described myself at whatever, at this point, I'm probably 22, I just described myself during this era, like, I had to say no, which took a lot. So no wonder those other pictures, quote unquote, went through, if you will. Yeah.

But yeah, it's like, what? No way. And just the pressure of being told as, you know, one of the young stars of the lead of like, this is the, A, the only way that you're going to get marketed. So you can either be here or not, I guess. But like, this is the way that we're going to sell the league and like, do you want to help the league grow or do you not? And it's like, that's an impossible situation. I want to get to, though, the ways in which the positions that you play athletically

sort of are obvious in your personal dynamic. So like Sue Bird point guard. I want to establish people who don't know your works, right? Like, Sue is the point guard. Sue superpower is somehow that she is attending to the people around her and making them better. But that also means that she's hyper-focused on, like, what they could use. And I was looking, I was actually looking on Wikipedia for, because I'm a journalist. Obviously.

There's just a funny thing. that Wikipedia used for Megan and I'll just read it. Rapino is internationally known for her crafty style of play and her activism off the pitch. Okay, leave activism aside for a second though. But like, what does it mean to be

yeah, one of the craftiest soccer players in sports history and also somebody who is a leader of a soccer team in a way that is inherently different from a basketball team. What would you say Megan's superpower is or was on the pitch? Her fearlessness, like risk taker, whether, you know, the president of the United States is tweeting at her or she's lining up for a penalty kick to win a World Cup. She doesn't think about what's going to happen next if, fill in the blank, if she misses or if she doesn't think about that.

She's fearless in those moments. The craftiness, I think, speaks to the entertainment in which you played with. but the fearlessness for me is what that's like that's who you are as a soccer player I always joke that sort of hated me as a teammate because probably I think the like craftiness

and you would have loved me I would have loved you oh my God no you would have been like what is she doing oh my God it worked one out of five times like you were always I mean I think by nature of your position because you're the point guard

you always had a lot of responsibility You were always charged with like literally calling the play and doing the things. I mean, I think I am a risk taker just in general and I was that way and I had coaches when I was younger that was like, yeah, do that crazy thing. And that was like cultivated. But I think also my time early on the national team, I was never, I mean, honestly, even until well into my 30s, I wasn't that leader. I wasn't the captain of the team. I was only captain of the team for a very short time. I wasn't the biggest player.

I just got to be this really complimentary piece that like I'm going to do wild shit sometimes and it's going to go bad. It's going to go really bad. But there's also that part that I kind of had that leash and I think I earned that leash, you know, over time to be creative. Okay, but let's put this in the basketball context.

There is the equivalent of Megan on your team. How are you managing this person who is going to turn the ball over but also give the greatest highlight that you saw that month. Well, by the way, your toe tapping on a discussion slash argument that we have around just our sports. Ooh. And which lends to risk taking.

We can get to that another pod. Wait, I want to know a little bit more about the argument that you walked into this room, have it. Yeah. No, no, not argument. Just conversation around. So I think soccer, it lends to risk taking because you have to take risk. Because there's so few goals. Yeah. And you're not, the penalty for the risk is not as great as basketball.

You can't be as risky as you can in soccer, in my opinion in basketball. No, I agree. It does require more risk and there's less precision because we're using our feet. But what you're implying there is that in basketball it's harder to be a Megan. Oh, yes. Yes, I am. It is harder. Yeah. Because the reward has to be so great on the other side if you're going to be a Megan. Yeah. But there's a place for it. If there were five of me on the court, it wouldn't be a good team. It'd be a little bit boring. It'd be a little bit like there wouldn't be as much risk.

I take risk when I have to, but way more calculated. You need the mixture. We'll bring it into the relationship context. Something goes wrong. How is Sue as the self-appointed, or in this case, long-authorized leader of this team? And is that okay to say that? That she is the... I don't know.

Do you brisk? Okay. The leader of our team? Yeah. Yeah. Wouldn't you want to be leading your team? Yeah. I'm like, yeah.

You know, yeah, you know, you're the leader of our team. Okay, but something goes wrong in the leader of your team is handling that how. What have you done, Megan? What have you done in this hypothetical or real example from life? I'm working on this, but sometimes it's Megan. Yeah. Which is so bad. I know.

And I'm like, I know. But I don't like it when you talk to me like that. I'm an adult We're working on it. I think it depends on what it is. No, I think you put so much thought and care and like you think ahead so much. I am definitely more like

off the cuff which has its obviously positives and negatives. And I think we do a pretty good job of balancing that in our life. But yeah, I mean, I say this all the time. Like, it's annoying being me. I annoy myself. I'm like it's not all funny games over here. You know, when you do the same dumb thing that you just did, like, why didn't I think ahead to, you know, would do whatever?

What's a thing, though? So I can potentially relate because I'm not the leader of my household. My wife is definitely the Sue Bird of our relationship. And I do stuff all the time, like come home 15 minutes to an hour later than I said I would. Or make noise when she's sleeping because she has to get up. early. Oh, that's me. Sue's a mouse.

A mouse. I'm told that I snore, which is a tough thing for me to have to reckon with. But yeah. Oh, that's not your fault. That's what I said. That's not a choice. No. Sometimes you do because you broke in your nose so many times.

But I just give you a little elbow. I just give you a little shake or push and then you'd like move around. I think like one of the things recently that we've been talking about I'm trying to get better as I. Where is this going? I like get just kind of in honestly we spend a lot of time together especially now that we're both retired so like our days are kind of around each other at time but we are sort of like working at the same time and there's a lot going on and so if it's not written if I haven't like written it down and it's in my calendar I mean it's in the ether like I'm working on it but it's just it's not getting

in there you're really going there I was just going to say you don't turn the lights off oh yeah I don't turn the lights off either but one thing is like that's one where I'm like just turn the lights up. I know. I'm like I walk out and how am I supposed to know when the lights on behind me? You know? Because I've already walked out. So that we've gotten over that one. That's conical because I just turn them off now. Yeah, because all the bulbs are burned out.

But this one is like I ask her a lot. And this is like a dependency thing too where I like ask her, you know, either like what she has going on that day or if we have any like plans for the night or what we're doing. and like she'll tell me and then you know inevitably like an hour later or the next day all like ask again and she's like you know it feels like I'm not paying attention and like not listening yeah I've been accused of this damn and I know it too I'm like but then I'm like well I don't have your whole schedule in my head and you know but I'm trying to slow down a little bit and be more thoughtful yeah you know I'm never going to be like as thoughtful as you well I mean I mean In this category. You can just hold so much in your head at the same time. It's amazing. Your ability to hold all these things in your head is like nothing I've ever seen. And I aspire to it, but I don't think I'm going to get there.

I am getting the sense, too, that when there is conflict, it's not. Megan, even in like the descriptions of how you are immediately apologetic or like immediately like. Are we going there? Yeah. Okay, so what is that? Because that's a type of person that is... It's annoying, is what it is. Yeah, it's annoying.

Why is it annoying? Because on one level, to immediately be like hand up is some element of what you want, isn't it? Yeah. Is the hand up about the same thing all the time? It's like, well, okay, the hand up is really not enough now. You need to actually change the behavior. And I'm like, okay, I'm trying. Oh, it's like, it's actually.

less that for me. Or it feels like I'm trying to shut you down. Yes. So again, back to a sports analogy, because here we are. Yep. Is this a sports show? Apparently. In my experience, when I go up to a ref and I'm like, what the? Like, what? Like, how'd you miss that? And they go, yeah, you're right. I'm like, okay, thank you. And you have to just walk away. There's no longer this, you know? Right. So when your partner, after you maybe express something, it's just like, yep, you're right. My bad. You're like, wait a minute. Is that real? Are you just shutting me up? And that's where we've actually talked about that a lot, though, in our time. So, okay.

So wait, this is, I'm learning about myself, too, I should say, while I'm asking you deeply invasive questions. But, like, what you're saying is that you're not getting the pushback that would reflect the authenticity of what you are actually feeling, that you're trying to keep it moving versus, like, actually engage on the thing that clearly you are not willing to engage with me about. Well, I just feel like, let's say it was a choice she made or a decision to do something. You probably did that for a reason. And then you're just going to like let go of that reason in the moment that I bring it up to avoid the conflict or whatever. That's a real point guard mentality, though. You made this decision for a reason. What was it and why aren't you telling me?

I don't know. I'm like, I don't know. I just, I didn't mean it. No, but I will say she also is very open to way more than me in some ways, like way open to like critique or not that I'm criticizing you. It's not that. It's really just like presenting, I'm presenting how it made me feel. Feel. That's really what we're talking about feelings. Yes.

Yeah. No, we are. Talking about feelings. Yeah. Sports and feelings. That's right. There's this term that I've sort of marveled at as it has become blindingly obvious in retrospect, but also a cliche. Which is love languages?

Mm-hmm. What are you guys as love languages? As in the thing that you do to express. We talk about it. Yeah. Okay. Which ones are we saying? They just have their limits.

I think, I think, no, no, no, they're all of. I feel like everyone's all of them, which is some are more prominent. Yeah, yeah. I would say I'm more like acts of service. Yeah, I think acts of service is like where mine shows the most. Yeah. Both receiving and giving probably. Mine's definitely more like physical touch, maybe gift giving.

Yeah. I think physical touch. Oh, you're definitely physical touch. I would say words of affirmation. Yeah. Yeah, words of affirmation. Yeah. Yeah. Giving and receiving.

A bit different there, huh? Yeah. I'm just keeping... You can see where we run into some issues. Just writing down some of this for my files. Yeah, yeah. She's like, I run your whole life and our whole life together. And I'm like, just tell me that you love me.

You're like, I did. Because I just ran your life. Yeah. Because I'm running your life. Yeah, I just got you wanted this plane on top. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, totally. We're in the Delta Lounge, chilling. I love you. Oh, totally. We'll be like in a random... Love language is the Delta Lounge. No, truly. Yeah.

Yeah, those are. What is easier about dating someone who did roughly the profession that you yourself devoted your life to for so long versus, you know, generally and also specifically speaking, like, I don't know, civilians, normies. Regulars? NARPs. NARPS. Yeah, NARPS? NARPS. Normal as regular person.

NARP. As the ambassador from the nation of NARPs. Yeah. Yeah. What is it? What is it about that that actually made this all easier than it might otherwise be? I think our general disposition and the way that we interacted with our sport was a big part of it. I think we both always enjoyed getting away from our sport, doing other things in our regular life allowed for.

our relationship to grow. And I think, you know, if you don't have that and you're just sort of like all focused on that, that would be a little bit harder. And then I think it's just like you just get it. You get that. Yeah, that's where I would go. Just like someone who got what it meant to have a physical, spiritual, emotional commitment to sports.

Yeah. It's like a shared language. Yeah. Just like that understanding of what the other is going through. even though it's different sports, different lifestyles in some ways, you get to skip the explaining part. It's nice to have somebody that understands that right out the gate. We have to be away.

We never really were like so sad or upset about like being away from each other because we're just like, well, obviously, like your team is here. My team is here. I'm, you know, at camp, you're in game. If anything, it was harder when one of us came back. I was like, oh, you're in my living space again. Yeah. That's this.

That's hard for you. That's hard for you. Yeah. I'm like, that was not. Oh, the lights are on again. Yeah. Here we go. All this physical touch.

The reentry. Yeah. When I think about how you guys handled the spotlight, how you handled like a microphone, I don't consider you guys following the same playbook. No. No. No, we're very different. We are very different people.

Very different. Yeah. So how much of that was. a thing you ever needed to discuss or or because I would like you guys to describe yourselves in your approaches actually. Okay. Megan pretty famously, I would say pretty much gave negative fuchs actually. Like, didn't.

Well, yeah. Just I didn't give the fuchs to the sort of obvious people who you're supposed to give I guess, I don't know. Championship robust? Completely. Yeah. Championship robust. Always.

Is Jane excited about going to the White House? I'm not going to the White House. No, not going to the White House. We're not going to be invited. You're not going to be invited? I doubt it. F*** distribution was something that you handled differently from Sue, is the bottom line. Yeah, no, we have a way, way, way, way different.

I give all the fuchs. But okay, but you guys have given your respect. press conferences and there is a different amount of fallout depending on what the thing was discussed that day. And then you guys meet up at home. And it's like, so how did your day go? And it's like, well, I'm an enemy of the state now. Yeah. Yeah. The example I was going to give was after, you know, Trump tweeted at Megan and it's at the World Cup and all the things, it was like a couple days later. And, you know, like, we were starting to hear things about what and who was contacting her family, who was in Northern California. My sister, so amazing, infamously got a text, like anonymous text that was like, tell your sister's boyfriend McCaldi Culkin to shut his damn mouth.

It's like top five. It's top. It's so good. It might be top. It's so good. It might be top. But when I started hearing all these things, like I said, what her family's getting. Now my sister's getting a text. I call her up.

She's in France. And I'm like, hey, like, you know, how are you feeling around, like, safety and all these things? Like, thinking kind of like, not globally, but zoomed out. Yeah. And she's like, I feel safe. I think over time I've tried to be more thoughtful about it. Because it has impacted people.

It has impacted my family. And, you know, I'm from a small conservative town that's, like, pretty tight-knit. My mom worked at a restaurant, so it was constantly people coming in and out. And my, you know, just my family, like, lives in a place that doesn't, that didn't really agree generally with what I was saying, didn't agree with kneeling. Like, why are you not kneeling? And I don't mean kneeling in terms of kneeling. Like, what are you doing? What is everyone doing to help?

Because everyone knows that we have a problem in this country. Everyone knows that we have serious issues to talk around racial injustice. didn't agree with my comments about not going to the White House or about that administration at the time. What is your message to the president? I think that I would say that your message is excluding people. You're excluding me. You're excluding people that look like me.

You're excluding people of color. You're excluding, you know, Americans that maybe support you. I'm also, like, you know, rich and an athlete and privileged and, like, sheltered and privileged in that sort of way. And so I just didn't really ever feel like I was actually in danger. And I talk about this all the time. And you've like seen this in real life. And you weren't there for the one time that this happened. One time in real life, someone has come up to me.

This man said like I'm, I wish you would have represented our country differently. And I was like, oh, okay. Like I, you know, sorry you feel that way or disagree. That's literally the only time. And like a couple times have been like boot in the stance. But that I don't feel like counts. even with social media I feel like maybe because I came to it a little bit later

but I think also my experience with kneeling like immediately showed me that it was all fake. What do you mean? Fake meaning like the it was so the conversation that was being had in a negative way was so disingenuous

because it wasn't about what Colin was saying at all. Like we're talking about the like the military now. Like we're not talking about national security. We're talking. about the right to protest and the First Amendment and police brutality and like all of these things. So I just immediately was like, okay, you're just trying to like have a different conversation and one that slings mud at Colin and, you know, tries to discredit what he's saying. And I think from my perspective, I was like, well, I believe Colin and I believe black people generally.

Otherwise you have to accuse like the entirety of like their experience. Of lying about. You have to accuse them of lying, which is insane because we've all seen all of the things. So I think just then I was like, oh, this is just disingenuous in general, particularly on social media. And I'm not getting that real life feedback that anybody actually feels this strongly about it to ever come in. I'm out on these streets or at games or in Texas or Florida or places that are traditionally more conservative. Nothing. Not one word.

So I was just like, man, this is like whatever. So I'm just going to keep saying what I'm saying. And it seems like I like no one. I'm on track when, you know, that part of the internet starts, like, saying crazy things. I'm like, oh, thank you for the reinforcement and, like, acknowledgement that I'm at the heart of it. What's Sue Bird like playing a board game? We don't play games. I know.

Meg, it doesn't play games. Honestly, I don't. It's so annoying. I might leave you because of it. I know. I'm not a gamer. She won't play games with me, Pablo. But I didn't grow up playing a lot.

I mean, I played some board games, but. I mean, I think you're, you are competitive. You are very competitive. But not so much we're going to like, you know, ruin the night. No, no, no, no. I'm actually, I love playing games. You're too. I grew up with card games.

My family's big card playing family. Board games did them all. And this answer was different, even at like 22. Then I would have been like, you know, almost like sore loser vibes. I think at some point, let's call it mid-20s, I was just like, who cares? who cares if you win at Monopoly like move on you know so now when I play games

I don't get super super competitive and I wouldn't be that way with you but she just doesn't like it I know I've tried to teach her backgammon spades like name it you're just not in you're not into it I know you would win though the answer is you would win so now I'm just like on my phone playing you know

computer number two but I but I like you are playing bots actually you're playing the computer it's telling me it's real people but I'm convinced it's not They always get the good role in backgammon. I'm like, this is impossible. I want to be mindful of the way in which we have created these two sitcom characters in a way that I feel like cannot possibly fully represent Megan as a competitive entity.

Because so far you're kind of like, whatever, man. And I just wonder if for Sue, how does that competitiveness actually appear in real life? Okay, good question. Or does it? Or am I looking for an aspect here that actually... You mean outside of sports? Or... Because obviously it exists in soccer.

However you experienced it, right? Like when you were like, oh, this person can be both, you know, unlike me in some now documented ways, but also like a fucking killer. No, you're not that competitive in other ways. I'm really trying to think. I think on the, like, in the game, like, I know. know how to be competitive. But I think there's some parts about being competitive and being like a killer like that that are really uncomfortable and like make me kind of like insecure.

And so I think I actually like shy away from games or like I mean, I don't know how to play a lot of the games. That's a part of it. That's a little bit of a part of it. You remind me of like trying to teach my mom how to use an iPhone. At some point she's just out. Yeah. Like she just came.

Even sometimes like in my in my. career. I would just be like, this is like a lot for practice and like, it's too much. Like, even in practice? You guys do it. Not all the time. And I'm like Lenny loophole. I'm like, how can I win this drill? Yeah. They didn't say you couldn't do that. Yeah. And I'm like, is that what we're trying to do? Is that the point of the drill? Like, I would get annoyed when people would do that. But I would also get annoyed when the coaches like left big holes in the game where I'm like, well, this is what people are going to do. This is the loophole. So, but yeah. But, yeah. I think there's something about like being like Uber competitive that is uncomfortable for me that I don't like that much.

We've been talking about what it was like when you guys were playing sports. I don't want to do the full retirement deep dive because I feel like we can catch people up to the point at which I'm just curious how you guys mutually decided to, I don't know, was there to strategize? Like, it's just remarkable that you guys both retire within a very short time span of each other. Again, in this way, at the top of your respective sports, when it comes to just these people that many consider some of the best to have ever done it. And you guys go about it in different ways, but also I can imagine that you guys also kind of had a meeting of the minds about this or no? Like, yes and no. The timing is totally coincidental in that it was the right timing for me. was the right timing for Megan, like on our own time. Like 100% that has nothing to do.

For those that don't know, we retired one year apart. That was not a strategy. That wasn't, that was just... Not a vacation you guys were dying to get to. Like, eh, better get this done now. But I think, correct me if I'm wrong, because I retired first and I had this experience, Megan definitely had a front row seat to that and got to pull from it and learn from it. whereas I got to pull and learn from other people who have retired in the past. So I feel like that's really the main way in which our retirements interacted. Yeah. And I think just the processing together through your retirement just inevitably brought up

questions and we were both, you know, talking about it. And, you know, there was questions whether you were going to retire in 2021. And that didn't feel right. And so we were having all these conversations and announcing it while. you're still playing versus just kind of finishing the season and saying goodbye. That was like, that's probably the main one. I think once the retirement question got answered for both of us in our own way and our own time, that's the question that I would venture to say every athlete of a certain

status in their sport, that's the one you toy with the most. Yeah, how to do it. Especially if you're in a, like a, in a league. Yeah. It's the league. now you're in a season. And it's also, and this is like, you know, it reminds me of like when I got married. It was like, this isn't also just about you.

Yeah. So I had to learn that. It's for. But okay, so who is it for then, as you would explain it now, having gone through it. So I didn't think of it. I didn't, I never realized that it was also for the fans. Powerful, powerful moment. Sue Bird, the most accomplished.

champion. In terms of announcing it while you're still playing, I never, that didn't get put into the equation until I talked to C.C. Sabathia and listen to his story. He was like, and he's so, I mean, if anyone's ever spent time with him, he was like, yeah, he's like, no, go, you got to like announce it and let the fans, like celebrate you. And I was like, what? And then I thought about it. I was like, oh my God, that makes a lot of sense. And then I found that it was really important for me to have that experience, too, like closure in a way. Yeah, once you allow yourself to admit, I love, again, I love that one of my favorite things

about both of you is that you are like these, you're alien in the sense that you are representing also a normal point of view of like, you're not taking for granted, of course,

the queen must meet her public. Yeah. It's like, oh, shit. Like, yeah, the double kiss. Yeah. Once you sort of let yourself fully internalize

that, oh, people are out there who sincerely want this for themselves, it changes the math. And so I think of your retirement as super well choreographed in that regard. In that like, wow, a pro who strategized considered various outcomes and so forth.

Just like how it all played out. I didn't expect any of it. Except Seattle. That I expected. I mean like we have a relationship. So it's like, of course. Right. Right, right, right.

But the road. Like I couldn't, it was difficult for me to get out of arenas. Like getting back to my hotel, I would have like security like sneaking me out the back. and I didn't anticipate that at all. I always have to tell her that she's Sue Bird. I do want to embarrass Megan a bit because...

Oh, God. Good luck, by the way. Yeah. Okay, so Sue is saying good luck there because Megan has been through some shit, especially recently. And if you don't remember how Megan waved goodbye to her athletic career, I should probably just recap how Sue did leave the Seattle storm like Queen Elizabeth, all dignified and choreographed. But Megan, less than a year later, during her farewell retirement tour, ended up at the World Cup final. This was last August in the knockout round against Sweden.

And everything came down to a shootout, came down to penalty kicks. And Megan, who was the best penalty shooter on the planet, arguably, did this. Megan had not missed a penalty in almost five years. Until that point, until her last World Cup moment. And after the game, which the U.S. lost, obviously, she could not help but sound like this. I mean, this is like a sick joke. For me personally, I'm just like, this is dark comedy. I missed a penalty.

But that dark comedy, it turned out, was just beginning. Because three months after that, last November now, Megan was back with her club team in Seattle, and they had made it all the way back to the National Women's Soccer League final. With a final championship on the line. and what happened there is kind of what I want to ask Megan about most of all. Even like what happened at the World Cup, I put into this a little bit because obviously I would have loved to go and win. And, you know, sports is sports. Like you don't get to, you get to do everything up until you get on the field and then like what's going to happen is going to happen.

With my final game, I mean, I even said I just said the other day. I was like, can you fucking believe I tore my guile to my final game in the first three minutes? And there she goes down, just unattested on the top of your screen, off to a bright start. And as you mentioned, Jackie, that would be devastating. It's funny. It's funny. It's not. But it's like dark humor.

I mean, if you can't laugh at this, like, you know, you can't laugh at anything. Like, this is one of the risks. I've dealt with a lot of injury. wish I would have had less, but I didn't. It's just the way it goes. Like, you, you step on the field, there's a risk. Could have, anything could have happened. So this was really unfortunate and, like, it's really sad, but also, I mean, I don't know, it's like, what are you going to do? I mean, it's like, what are you going to do? You know, now I'm rehabbing and it's giving me a little structure of my life and I'm, like, taking the best out of it that I can. But, yeah, it was a, it's a

tragically comic ending, comedic ending. What was Sue, what was going through your mind as you were watching this? Did you know immediately? Well, Megan's going to find a way to laugh at this. She's going to see the dark humor in this. Or were you feeling it as yourself, which was how maybe? Yeah, no, I think in the moment was just feeling the moment of it. I didn't, I wasn't thinking about the next day or week or month or how it wasn't. It was just, well, actually, that's a little bit of a lie. I, I knew it was an Achilles. Like pretty much right away. Just like classic signs, the look back. Nobody near. her, there was somebody who texted me and said, and they were watching on TV, who it kind of threw me off because they were like, it looks like her knee. And I was like, really, it looks like her knee. But then there was something about the way she sat, grabbed her calf, and then kind of like sat back on her arms in a way of, like, defeat where I was like, oh, she knows. This is Hercules. It's done. It's a rat. And in that moment, I was just really sad for the

moment. I was just really bummed in the moment, knowing that, yeah, that you didn't get to finish your final game and your final season, just like really sad for that moment. And like I said, my one little lie is I did think like, oh man, this f*** rehab is long. This is a long rehab. So I did think that for you too. But I was in a suite with her whole family. And so there was just a lot of, it was actually nice. There was a lot of commiserating. There were some tears. But very quickly, I think everybody's turned to not celebrating that, but just like it turned into, okay, let's cheer on Seattle. Like, we know Megan's okay. She's texted us from the locker room. Like, we know she's okay. And now let's just kind of be in this moment.

I am sad about it too. Like, I feel like I'm, like, getting emotional about it right now. Like, it is sad. Like, I wish that didn't happen. Like, I'm just thinking about, like, my teammates coming over. And, like, of course it's sad. But it's also, like, I'm. I don't know. It's kind of just like life. We want these like perfect stories and, you know, I'm like a controversial figure and having people low-key like celebrate it. But then also like be so disingenuous about it that that part is kind of funny too. I'm like, wow, you guys are in a special place in hell that you're celebrating this. I'm not going to that hell. Maybe it's a tissue out of your pocket. Yeah, I pulled tissue out. Where'd that come from? It's winter in New York. I'm so sensitive and it's just like I'm like, I'm like, Eyes are running all the time. My nose is running. So I am sad about it.

I was just thinking myself, like, this is going to get clipped and people are going to be like, oh, so you think Megan thinks it's funny that she did. And it's like, it's not funny. But I also, this is how I like live my life. Yes. There are so many more important things than this. And like, of course it's sad.

I don't think it takes anything away with my career. I don't think missing that penalty takes anything in my career. It's just, it's actually all part of it. And like, if you don't, if you don't try, you're never going to do anything. What you said in the, press conference, which got people, like, just, again, disingenuously furious. I'm not a religious person or anything.

And if there was a God, like, this is proof that there is it. This is f***ed up. So, yeah, it just, it's just f***ed up, you guys. Somebody needs to check on the Christians. They're not okay. They also miss the whole joke, but okay. That's the thing is that. I'm like, you guys missed it?

Don't act like, A, you're surprised by me. like making this joke about what happened or, you know, finding a dig. I'm like, yeah, I want to find a funny like dig. I don't know. Who's it at? God, myself, religion, the world. I don't know. The dig was at yourself too because it was what it was, I don't think people appreciated

this because everyone was deeply triggered religiously and otherwise. The dig is here is yet another athlete who thinks that proof of God. is found in them winning, in good shit happening. And if it doesn't, then obviously God does not exist. That's the joke. And for you to say it at your last fucking press conference, I was like, this is brilliant. And instead, everyone got so bad.

Yeah, it was a whole thing. I really didn't expect it to be a thing. I have talked very openly about my belief or lack of belief, rather, in God. feel like that's normal. All of the other signals that I see from athletes is talking about their particular station of faith in life. So why can't I talk about my particular station? Obviously, I'm like doing that purposely and I'm like not literally saying that. But I always found it like important for me to at least say that. Like I'm just going to, you know, say I'm not going to sort of dance around sports. And faith is like so intertwined in this really bizarre.

our way that does always have to do with like God was looking out for us today because we won. Yeah. It's a deeply selfish. I don't know. It's a whole, yeah, it's like, it's a whole thing and like that that also makes life hard for people who do not fall inside of the catechisms and rules of whatever church happens to be the dominant one in that locker room. Yeah. So I didn't realize it was going to, I didn't even realize it was that big of a thing. because I don't get into my comments like that. I don't even use Twitter anymore. But then I started hearing about it from lots of different people.

I was like, oh, that's a, they miss the joke. I was more upset about that. I'm like, oh, damn. You get credit for the joke. Damn it, you miss the joke. I just want the laughs. How has life, besides physical therapy, besides all that stuff, for people who don't know how it tends to go for athletes,

there's a very famous saying that an athlete dies twice. Oh, yeah. Actual death, but also retirement. And I don't know, you guys seem cool. Like I see you guys like hanging out, like watching football games and stuff. Like, yeah, it seems like they're doing pretty well. But how has that been really? I think for me, I always knew that being an athlete just meant like there was a schedule,

there was a regiment, there was the working out and the eating. And it was how I always described, it was just like something constantly running in the background. Just a constant thought about, oh, God, I have a game tomorrow. I probably should get to sleep at this time. Oh, man, should I eat this? Okay, I'll have day off. What am I going to do? It's like constant, constant, constant.

And it impacts you, right? And so I've definitely gone through like a detox period in terms of letting that go. Do you feel yourself sort of like instinctually acting as if you need to be somewhere and you don't? A little bit. A little bit. The phantom limb of practice. I have a phantom limb. It's a phantom limb. That's a great way to say it. That is a perfect way of saying it. And I'm definitely, it's, it's been, it's been difficult. And I have like guilt connected to it, especially in the working out part of it. I think personally, since we're going deep here, I think personally, the last couple years of my career, a lot of my basketball identity was, was connected to the fact that

I was older. I was now like 39, 40, 41, still able to play, still in this amazing shape. Like, wow, look at that. And I think a lot of my identity got wrapped up in that. So letting go of working out is letting go of that, like what I became connected to. So there's like a shedding that has to happen. So what do you do with the opportunity to actually be free of a grind for the first time in forever? I mean, I've had the luxury, obviously, of seeing you basically do everything just right in front of me. Like even just from the time we've met, I'm like, well, what the fuck you're doing? I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be doing. doing that too. It's like I worked with Susan and like in our retirement and, you know, so I feel like

I've had the, you know, the luxury of having that in front of me. I'm obviously very sort of new into it. But I think for me, I was very ready to be done. And that doesn't mean I don't miss it. And like, you know, I watch games on TV and I'm like, oh, that'd be so fun. I feel like, I wish my prime was now because I think the modern game better suits me as a player and I spend a lot of my time you know playing left mid and a 4-4-2 and that's just a fucking nightmare so

and I'm like all the soccer people will know what I'm talking about but I think like physically I was really ready clearly for my Achilles in the last second that I ever played so my body was like okay girl we're done but to your phantom limb point I find that like

there is a voice in your head like these athletes have a voice and it's It's not like a, it's not mean, but like it's a, it's a metronome. She's holding you to it. She's holding you to it. Like, are you doing what you're supposed to be doing like all of the time? Because it all revolves around your playing. And what I've found is it's kind of weird.

Like the voice is gone, but I feel the absence of the voice. And I'm like, oh, I know what the voice would be saying. But it's like not saying that. So then I'm like, what do I feel like? I'm like, I should be working out or working out more, but, like, I don't want to. And I'm tired. So I'm not going to. Or, like, you know, it's like, oh, we can go to Cabo on a weekend if we want.

But that seems crazy to us. Like, that seems like, oh, my God, no. Like, what do you mean? You can just, like, do things on the weekend. Like, right, my partner can show up and we can have sex. Yeah. What are you doing here? Yeah.

This isn't on the schedule. So I find that. I'm like balancing that. We have to like learn how to make choices for ourselves because to be honest, like our whole lives really and sort of like a macro sense is planned out. Our schedule is planned out when your games are, when your vacation time is. Even during the week, it's like, okay, I'm going to play on a Saturday and I have Wednesday off. So that means Tuesday night I can go to dinner and have some wine. Sometimes I just go to her stuff and people are like, what are you doing here?

And I'm like, plus one, baby. Sue birds my fiancee. So on arm candy. Like, that's literally what I'm doing here, and that's basically it. So can I ask the very rude question that obviously, me, as America's foremost tabloid feelings reporter, wants to know is, what's that with his wedding? What's up with his wedding? What's going on? Where's my invitation?

The 30th person out. What's that? I'm pretty sure all of our friends just want to party. What kind of card stock you guys are using on these invulents? Probably just Evice. Well, things people don't know. Ready? Things people don't know.

Please. The U.S. Women's National Team schedule is insane. Yeah. Like proper. It was a lot. Now we're both done. So that's why the question's coming up a lot.

And now people are like, oh, we heard what you told us. A different voice has replaced the other voice. And it's my voice saying, and it's just a lot. Yeah. We're like, we just haven't gotten to that part yet. Yeah. We would like to. Yeah.

We had a little of like an idea. We had a hiccup. a fake news situation where we went to two of my really good friends, Jess and Z, I played with them in Seattle. They got married in Wales. We went. You dressed up. Yeah, Sue wore an off-white blazer.

I wore a black one. It was my jacket. Not like my outfit? Yeah, it was just like the jacket. And it was like we posted a picture. And it's funny the way people reached out about it because they were kind of like, congrats. Like friends.

Friends. I was like, like, congrats. Like, I had no idea. Basically what they're saying was like, you guys went to this without us? A passive aggressive period, maybe congrats, period. Yeah. I was like, you'd be invited. We're not going to do.

We're not going to do the elope thing. I just, I don't. Well, I personally don't want that. You don't want that. Okay, we don't want that. And so we do want the party that's going to be very fun and we want to celebrate with all our people. So for everybody wondering, you will be invited. You will be invited.

Well, probably not everybody. Actually, I wouldn't mind eloping, but then still having a wedding. Yeah. Like a party. Yeah. And then like showing up being like, we actually already married. Yeah. Pop the bottle.

Yep. That I could do. So there is no timeline. It's a lot of planning. But it's going to happen eventually. Yeah. Can I ask it even more? I can't wait.

Invasive question. Kids? Is it kids? Oh, yeah. It's kids. You have all this time. to contemplate what happens from here on out. I am fundamentally as a friend and as the father of a daughter. A girl dad.

As a girl dad. How do you think about that stuff now that you have the time to actually for the first time think about that stuff? I mean, you have a kid, right? You know how crazy they are. Yeah. Sounds pretty crazy. My guy. People are asking me all of the time. I'm like, when's the second one? I'm like, guys, we're just figuring out how to negotiate with a four-year-olds and not be outmaned here. Yeah.

So I am, it's hard. It's also all of it. Here's my perspective. I know, it's like wonderful. All the cliches are real. For me. I see it with my sister. I mean, you have, it's like, I have nieces.

I see it. I see it. I froze my eggs. So that's like the, I think the best part is. that we don't feel a time crunch, although, you know, you don't want to be like a super old parent. There's no one way to do it. I don't know that I want to be a super old parent. I'm already 43. So like, what's the, I don't know if I've ever thought about this, but I'm like, what's the line? Sue Bird versus Time. The sequel.

The sequel. Duntat, part two. So, yes, that's the good news. Is the option exists. I think as of right now, the answer is no. But it has come up a little bit more recently. We've talked about a little bit more. I've always, I have a lot of respect for it. I'm just going to sorry, not to, I have a lot of respect for it. And because of that, I'm a little like, okay, I'm not doing this lightly. One million percent. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Like a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I never wanted to have kids while I was playing. I always just marvel at my teammates and athletes who do it. I'm just like, I don't, how did you do that?

How are you doing that right now? Like, I'm so tired. Incredible. And it takes, it's just like moms who have kids and come back to sports are just. Superheroes. Superhero. Like, I've seen it like live in all the different ways. Oh, yeah.

From on field, off field, navigating, parenting in that environment. Right. Serena Williams, Candice Parker, all of these examples. I don't get it. I don't get it. The utmost respects. And I just was like, oh my God, I could never do that. I never wanted to.

And then I also don't want them like right now. I'm like, I just got to my freedom. So you're not giving that up just yet. No. For that cute little... At the end of every episode of Pablo Tori finds out, we establish what it is that we found out today. Oh. I found out a lot about you guys, but I'm curious what you guys have found out.

Talking through with me, your lives in a way that feels a bit like part... Couples, counseling, although you guys don't need it, and part exit interview from your previous life, which is not how I, I didn't want this to be super dramatic, but I appreciate that we've got into some really deep things. Yeah. So what did you guys find out about yourselves today? That's actually the first time I've really talked about the fear that I think I felt as a young professional using that word. like afraid. Yeah. I haven't really just talked about it that way.

It just came to me and I said it. I did think that too while you were talking. I was like, oh, I've never said it. I've never said it that way. Yeah, yeah. It was always kind of like the way you talked about was like, just like it was fine. I didn't really, you know, think about it that much. And then you started dating like the gayest person in the world.

So it was like, yeah, my sister. McCulley Culkin over here. Oh my God. It was so funny. I mean, shout out to that mean mean person who said that. Collie Conkulkin. That was funny. That was funny.

But yeah. Yeah. So that's definitely something I guess I learned. What I found out is that you guys are enjoying freedom. Yeah. Very much. Yeah. It's nice.

I think I like continue to find out that I was very ready to move into like a different phase of life. But I think just like freeing up all this space is like being very curious about other things and wanting to spend my time. time doing other things other than just like talking about myself or ourselves. No, no, I was just going to say, you were saying, yeah, I love this freedom of retirement. And I'm like, and I'm Tom Hanks from Castaway. Where I feel like I'm still like, yeah. I'm still laying on the floor with my flashlight. Can I go back to the island?

It was comfortable. Like that's like my experience though, just kind of leaving this other life that I live for so long got comfortable in. Like, oh, there's a whole world out there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Megan, Sue, thank you for genuinely sharing more of yourselves than I have any right to know

and allowing me to, you know, ask about your sex life. Yeah, no, we started hot and heavy. Yeah, we got in there. We started hot and heavy. Had to keep it going. Yeah. Happy Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day.

Likewise. Will you be my Valentine? Yeah, I'll be a Valentine, babe. Of course. For more Sue Bird, by the way, keep an eye out for this upcoming documentary titled Sue Bird in the Clutch, which just premiered at Sundance, and is headed to a streaming service near you. This has been Pablo Torre finds out.

A Metal Arc Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.