Pablo Torre Finds Out - Share & Atone & Tell with Nick Wright and Kevin Wildes

Episode Date: January 10, 2025

The co-hosts of "First Things First" join their arch-frenemy to debate: Should incorrect predictions be embarrassing? What's the best word in the sports discourse? And who is famous best? Plus: the second-smartest person in sports media, ranking rankings, flying cars without stereos, Sully Sullenberger, The Sam Darnoldification of Sports, and an ice-cream sandwich compliment. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Pablo Atore finds out. I am Pablo Atore. Today's episode is brought to you by Draft Kings. Draft Kings, the crown is yours. And today, we're going to find out what this sound is. I'm not acting. I don't think he's acting. It's just a character.

He's just a real life character. Right after this ad. You're listening to Draft King's Network. What a delight to have you both here, by the way. You know, for me. Thanks for having us. You're taking stock of your surroundings, Kevin. Well, I've seen, you know, I'm a big fan.

Oh, yeah. Waiting for Nick to chime in with a compliment, but none has come. I didn't, I don't like to come over the top on someone else's compliment. Yeah. And I also don't like to lie. So I was in a weird spot, you know, kind of a double way in there. But, by the way, by the way, evidently my hair is getting screwed up by the head. phones. I think it looks great. Your hair has been looking good. Though, I appreciate that.

All of our hair is looking pretty good. There's, Pablo's got great hair. Wilds has great hair. I just, my hair's fine. I'm in a room with two people objectively a better hair than me. My hair gets graded on a curve because I used to have a shaved head and people thought that was by force, then by choice. So people oddly think this is like fake hair. But set that aside. We're going to rank everything in the room by the time this episode is over. Rankings matter. You know what? Can I just say something? These people that think they're too goddamn good to like, oh, for lists and rankings and whatever, that's what life is. I'm not into people that think they're too good for what everyone enjoys. Rankings are number one,

dude. Yeah. I don't know who's number two. Rankings. Rankings are number one. As far as ways to organize things, number one, number one rankings. Number one, rankings. Number two, art. And that's the end of the list. Just rankings and art. Yeah. Let's all get claps, though. You could? No, that was good clap. I missed it. Best clap, Nick.

Second best clap, me. Worst clap, Wilds. Okay, so you should know that the reason that I've decided to start the new year with Nick Wright and Kevin Wilds here with me in studio is for a very particular reason. Nick and Wilds, in case you did not know, co-host a popular sports television show called First Things First over on FS1. or, as they called the show at the start of one episode last year, the show that's going to vanquish Pablo Torre. Oh, come on. Don't put that on the air.

Why I'm serious about it. Okay, all right. If you want to do it, we're going to do it together. And shout out to their co-host, by the way, Chris Broussard, who you could hear at the end of that video just then, just immediately washing his hands of all of this. But my feud with Nick and Kevin actually began a lot earlier than that. And so I needed to begin this episode.

which will go unusually deep inside of the business of sports media and the art of giving takes and the crafting of magic words and the ranking of celebrity because Nick started off originally as a solo radio host and Wild started off as a television producer that I worked with at ESPN. And I just needed to confront them about the last time that the three of us

had been together in person, which was naturally at Temps. and Wilde's family holiday party. Okay. December 2023, Nick, it's the Upper West Side. It's almost Christmas. I see you. Yes. And you say to me something that I've been waiting over a year to talk to you about. Great. Because I have no recollection. You say to me, this is great. I think you're the second smartest person in sports media. I called you second. I would have thought maybe. maybe third, but sure, yeah. Did I have myself first or Balmani first?

I never followed up until now. I want the rest of these fucking rankings. Well, do I think I am the smartest guy in sports media? Obviously, I think that. I would, and I would think anyone that is in the lane I'm in, if they think there's someone smarter than them, I would lose respect for them. Is the lane you're in breathing person? No.

I don't think I'm the smartest person in the world. That's ridiculous. I don't even think I'm one of the... No, but I'm in an industry where the barrier for entry of intelligence is not exactly high. How dare you? How dare you? And the lane I have is the annoyingly accurate smart guy. He has been ready about the chiefs.

You called that one. That is at least one third true, annoyingly accurate, smart guy. I would just ask the audience, what else are we going to assign my success to? My look, no. I got a great voice. No. Connections? No.

Athleticism? No. Likeability. Pretty clearly not. It's like, God damn it. That guy really irritates me. But he's smart. I learned something.

And he's right a lot. That's a great take. I mean, what do we assign Wilde's success to? He's incredibly handsome. He's one of the funniest people I've ever met. Yeah. He's super likable. Yeah.

Well dressed. If he had all of those things and was the smartest guy in the room, I don't think he, I think he'd be president. But this is, this is the, I don't know if I got complimented or diss there. I think, I think, I think, I think, I think it's 60-40 diss. Is a real ice cream sandwich of a compliment? That's been great at all. But I also think it really says a profound amount about you that it stuck with you for 14 months because it means that you operate under the same assumption I do, that you're the smartest guy in the business.

It's hard to debate that. Yeah. Who you want to be the smartest too? Want to be is a real loaded clause. You guys are. Do you know what you've said? Do you see why this guy's my rival? Do you see?

This rival's thing is more interesting. Do you get it? Having like a... We're 30 seconds away to debating the salary, Captain. The reason... Second apron. Look at the second apron. That doesn't work.

It's so important for Wilde to be here. It's so important for Wilds to be here. Because I think... So punitive. Can't make anything happen. Shut up. Meanwhile, Wilde's take is like, why is it an apron? No, that's not on the apron.

Okay, here we go. No, do the rivals thing. I want to catch people up on that, which is that Nick declared on Lebitard's show that he has rivals. Kevin Wilde makes fun of me because he says that this is an insane way to look at my career. But I just assumed everyone looked at it this way, which is I have a rivals list. Everyone in the media that is within two years of me or younger than me, I must vanquish and I must be more successful than I have to do it. They are all my rivals. And the reason I mention it is, right now, rising to the top of the rivals list is Pablo Tori.

And he will be vanquished. The top Pablo's younger than me. Pablo made fun of me a bit on the show the other day, which only solidified that he is my rival. And it doesn't matter that we're friendly. It doesn't matter that he's always been kind to me. It doesn't matter that I was at a Christmas party with him. I will vanquish Pablo Tori. You guys at one point, we're both, like, young.

I've known Pablo for so long. I'm like, remember when Pablo is like the young guy at ESPN? Yeah, oh, Pablo's young and you were young. Yeah. And now you're 40. Right, but so... I am 39. I mean, that's basically, that's 40.

That's even worse than 40, honestly. I don't, I don't know. That's a good take. That's a good take. I don't think that it is unique in any industry to look at the other high-eachian. achievers that are around your age and measure yourself against them. So everyone that was around my age, even though we're not young anymore, they're all rivals. And then I tried to set up like a beef. It didn't really take off.

Yeah, I was. You said some bombs over. You said some swear words. I was like, yeah. I know. I think I went to. But I think we were on vacation. I was like, why do you launch the rivalry beef? I hate Nick right now. Okay. Feels like a lot.

Which camera can I speak into? They're all yours. Oh yeah, all of them. Nick Wright, fuck you. Kevin Wilds, you're a C word. Capitalism.

Content. Capitalism. You guys run a break. I think Pablo started a beef, but we're not even going to respond. And first things first was on vacation, and I was just yelling into the noise editing foam in this room. We do have a segment that I wanted to do.

And the segment was going to be take atonement. And when I texted you guys about this, immediately and unsurprisingly, Nick refused to play along with the segment. I didn't refuse to play along. I was down. I was down. You are not? No. Again, do you want me to read into the court transcript? Please.

Please. And see if the audience thinks that I refused. Also just lie. Say he said something. No. Read exactly what I wrote. Pablo, you are the number one smartest person in sports media. Strike your from the record.

And then Wilde's replies, I'm in. The next morning, Nick replies, I'm not saying I'm not in. Exactly. But I'm sure you guys will understand that asking me to compile my allegedly worst opinions assumes facts not in evidence. Yeah. parentheses, that such opinions exist. Yeah. said it's going to be hard. But I've got some things ready, but do you want to go first,

since you guys were the ones in first? You're saying that you have generated. Yeah, I've got some ones that didn't work. Is it this one? I'm ready to move from the flirtation stage to the commitment stage. And I am picking the Chicago Bears and Caleb Williams to win the NFC and to be a rookie quarterback representative in the Super Bowl. Yeah, I mean, that's the obvious one. Now, I am. curious, if Jaden Daniels were to make the Super Bowl, that take becomes basically half right. Because most of the people's objection was a rookie quarterback's never made the Super Bowl. And it would have been like, if you say, hey, an asteroid's going to hit Earth in Peru in

2008 and an asteroid hits Argentina in 2028, you weren't as wrong as the people who were like, no way, it's not coming. you were definitely more right. And so Jaden Daniels season kind of indicates the opinion a bit, but obviously didn't go that way. There's a whole other sliding doors thing of Tyrick Stevenson doesn't taunt the fans and the Bears get to 5 and 2 and Jaden loses that game what we're talking about. But no, that was a bad take.

The thing about sports predictions is their predictions. And the, you know, as try as I might, can't flawlessly tell the future. Yeah, that would have been probably, I don't know if that would have been the number one draft pick for the wrongest take I've had. I mean, it's a take, though. That was just the one from this past year that came to mind. I mean, that's a great take, though. Yeah, obviously.

You're saying the process of the take was good. The result was bad. If the take cuts through and it makes sense, it's great take. It doesn't necessarily have to be right or wrong. What was your request, since you have the text pulled up? The request. Bad predictions? It was actually, I thought it was a magnanimous offer.

It was a take exorcism. We all volunteer. a take that we are embarrassed by. Oh, if it was just one take, then that would have been, then it wouldn't have been Herculean. I thought we needed like a long list. We do have this take also, just for the record on that. I don't believe in the Eagles. I don't believe in their coach. And I'm starting not to believe in their quarterback. Yeah, I mean, two-thirds of that applies. I don't believe in the quarterback and I don't believe in the coach. Now I was dead wrong on Saquan and his impact, and Bruh nailed that.

The thing that I was going to bring to the take exorcism was I did pick the Lakers to beat the nuggets. Oh yeah, I love that. That was my shining moment. Here's the other thing. I don't understand people being embarrassed by incorrect sports predictions. I think that old takes exposed guy existing has been one of the greatest things that ever happened in my career.

Because I think there's a lot of people who are like, oh boy, I don't want to get old takes exposed. Let me water this one down. F*** do I care. Like what is like, like, oh no. Oh no, this loser's going to retweet the thing that I said six months ago. But isn't there some amount of tension, though, in being guy who is the most right and being guy who does not feel an ounce of pain when he is wrong?

Isn't that in conflict? Can you be both? Because I take so much pride in being correct, I should feel shame when I'm wrong. It's a classic having cake and trying to eat it as well situation. How so? Because you want to be the guy who's right, but also when you're wrong, you say, I don't actually get bothered by being wrong. Well, it's a lot of upside, but almost is no downside that you are willing to absorb. I fundamentally disagree. It is the life of a, in a different genre, professional gambler.

I knew it. I knew it. Which is, I am going to, in a theoretical world, be the world's greatest sports better. And I'm going to make millions of dollars a year betting sports. And my path to doing that is being correct 56% of the time. And part of that means I know going in, I am going to be wrong two out of five. And if every time I'm wrong, I'm like, oh, what am I going to do now? then that is you are the ultimate trust the process guy you are the ultimate this is unfortunately true and so no i don't i don't go into every football season saying well we're going to be perfect i go into

every football season saying i'm going to be better than all my rivals and luckily all of them year after year convince themselves the greatest team any of us have ever seen is probably not that good so I start off way ahead. And I only need a few other things to fall to be the rightest one. Nick does have a remarkable thing going wilds where, and again, this is not an original observation, but somehow his portfolio includes LeBron James. I said this a few months ago, and I believe it 100% to be true. He'll never be bad.

And Patrick Mahomes. You know why teams do weird shit when they're playing the Chiefs? because staring across the sideline and seeing Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid terrifies them. And he has marked himself as an underdog somehow despite those being the two items at the top of his list. Can I be prying and rude on the subject of Nick's relationship with Patrick Mahomes and LeBron James? Sure. The idea that LeBron or Patrick Mahomes would be in the midst of some take storm and they would see yours and be like, Thank you for saying that.

Yeah. I think they appreciate it. Shingoon has never reached out to me. All I do is, all I do is sing the guy's praise. I was early on that. But Shingoon is learning from Joker. He's baby Joker. Okay.

He is. Okay. Baby Joker. Okay. Being his personal. Being his personal. Attorney has not. I'm just like the pro bono publicist for Shingoon.

This dude is out here. You should make the All-Star team. You really should get more. more love from your guys yeah because my guys well hold on i rock with my guys hard mac jones did start following you on twitter yes oh yeah so is that is that mean that he's not being submitted to the center of the table for a take atonement no i mean i can get into that i thought that that's what you were going to get into never but now i'm never going to leave mac jones basically because sam darnold i'm telling this the sam darnoldification of sports

You want a $5.00 word, Donaldification. Sam Darnold's success has made it possible for me to never sell any bad take anywhere. Off play action. Stepping up. Launching downfield. And it is twisting, turning. Touchdown. Jefferson.

Minnesota's back in front. Like Sam Donald was given up on. by the Jets, the Panthers. And then when he got to the 49ers, what was it, Shanahan? He reminds me. Like, why can't Sam Darnold be good? Steve Young got good at 30. And we're like, whoa, that's a compliment.

That kind of hit my radar. Like, time to get into the Sam Darnold take business? And Sam Darnold is amazing. So why is, was, is Mac Jones right now as good as Carolina, Sam Darnold? Probably not. I'm terrible. But, never leaving Mac Jones. But point taken.

That's it. It's the ceiling of guys that I'm never given up on anybody until they retire. And like, I don't know, maybe USFL he can come back. With the point, the point you're making is that Sam Darnold was a turning point in the sports discourse such that because he has had a comeback like this, now we cannot write off anybody. Certainly quarterbacks who are so situationally coach wide receiver, offensive line dependent. Sure. What I'm getting, though, is that neither of you're going to play this game. No, what do you mean? You're both rejecting the concept of having a take to a tone for.

I've said three, Pablo. You haven't said one of yours. Ben Simmons. I'm not giving up on Ben Simmons. It gets his back healthy. Ben Simmons unfollowed me on Twitter. Ben Simmons is my answer. You're giving up on Ben Simmons?

I think I have to. I'll believe in Ben Simmons then. I think I have to. My take on Ben Simmons was always, and this is, I'll do a little Nick right for you. Nick, if I gave you, if I gave you, you. you a flying car, you'd be impressed, right? Sure. If this car was the fastest car in the world, you'd be impressed.

Yeah. If this car didn't have a stereo, you'd be bummed, but you'd still think, incredible car. Yeah. That's Ben Simmons. That's such a terrible take. I'll stick with your analogy. If because the lack of brakes exist, you're afraid to drive the car fast, but it can go fast. you're afraid to take it on the freeway, but it can drive above traffic.

Then it doesn't matter. It can do all those other things. The other guys in league history who have had a hole in their game, it didn't metastasize in a way that it undermined every other piece of their game. And that's what happened to this kid. And I don't know, I don't know the full psychology of it, but it's been, we've known it for five years. I don't like that Nick has workshopped my take into a better,

take, although I think my analogy is still good. Is Ben Simmons number one fan and supporter available real estate? Yes. You want it? I mean, if it's available. What we have found out today is that Kevin Wilds can become the number one Ben Simmons guy?

Yeah, I'll do that. Pablo wants you to atone for a take. I have atoned for the record you said. I don't know why I'm not playing along. I atoned for the, Sequin not working with the Eagles, the Bears making the Super Bowl, Derek Henry not making a difference for the Ravens, I'll throw in, and the Lakers

beating the Nuggets in last year's playoffs. So there's four off the top. I don't think I may need to atone for anything. How about no one's beating the Nuggets in a seven-game series, and they won literally one seven-game series? That was worthy. And then blew a 20-point lead at home. That wasn't great.

How do I remain so confident? I'm always reminding myself, bang, no one's beating Denver in a seven game series. I'm going to say it a hundred times. I'm always reminding myself. I'm not at 20 for that, though. You can do a non-sports take atonement. I didn't specify.

You can do any, is there any take wilds that you regret that you've come around on in the last year? Or more. We can do more. I'll give you one in the meantime while you're thinking. A non-sports take that I've just been wrong about. I'm like, you know what, this is good. He said he has one he wants to give. Yeah, go ahead.

I'll brainstorm. I'm a morning guy now. I used to want to stay up late. Now I wake up at like 5.30 a.m. Was that a take or just like an evolution of your life? I think I was... Like mornings suck. I think I was dead wrong.

Yeah. My take previously had been, I will never want to wake up this early. And now I'm regularly waking up this early. And it's better. Yeah. I get so much more done. Yeah, the mornings are great.

Also being a dad, I feel like I get to spend time and, you know. Yeah. That's the take. Mornings are better than night. Yeah, exactly. I'll fall asleep at 11 p.m. 10. 10.30 even. Yeah, that's just called aging. Yeah, I think that's just maturity.

This also brings us to the vocabulary portion. So what is this portion? It's just the idea. Favorite portion. It's your favorite? Yeah, go to the Pablo, sorry. Wilde set it up, please. Words that work for sports debate,

maybe like magic words. My favorite. is deserve. Deserve is one of my favorite words. Does Lamar deserve to be a 10-point favorite? Does Russell Wilson deserve to be a 10-point underdog? Do the chiefs deserve the buy? Like, what?

They're 15 and 1. Yeah, but do they deserve it? It's just so good. So I was trying to... Right, it's weighted with morality, even. Oh, it's just fantastic. Do they cosmically... Yeah, merit this thing that has...

So do you know the other ones that we use on the show? Reaction. No. What do you mean? Nick's so bad at this game. Why would I be good at this game? I don't even understand the game. The correct answer was,

disrespected. Okay. Is Sean Payton being disrespected? Okay, I get it. Those are, I think... Another one? Should the lions be afraid? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, that's good. Of anyone in the NFs. Yeah. And we do another version of that, which is how scary are the Bengals? Yeah. Are the Bengals the scariest? The scary. Yeah, scary.

Scary is good, too. Because it's very like, you get immediate reality. I'm not going to be scared of that. But the subtext in the best vocabulary words in this way are always the words that imply some level of disrespect. Yes. Deserve, disrespect, fear. unfair we use a lot unfair that blank unfair is this unfair but it's all based on justice a cosmic sense of justice well yeah it's to get wilds wants more emotion and less

analytical responses yeah typically that creates the best show yeah some sort of some combination of the two yeah but an emotional response with a with a statistical foundation is nice yeah no no no it has It has to be based in fact, but a feel to it. Yeah, that's what makes... With philosophical kind of a clash. So I did high school debate. One of the things that I learned is that a key to ensuring a messy disagreement

is to never define the term that you're actually debating. Oh, and be valuable. Valuable, greatest. These are things where Nick has... Nick's brain has already activated. If you were to put an fMRI on Nick's brain, as I said, those words. you would have had already, like a decision tree of just arguments about. So on.

In the debate team, that's something from like the, I'm not totally, I've seen a few debates, but I'm not totally familiar with the format. But that's something that the initial, you will have to spend time in your opening case, like saying that you define the terms. You attempt to define the terms so that you both agree on what you're arguing about. And if you don't, you end up eternally debating. Michael Jordan versus LeBron. That sounds great.

Like if you were to just dive into it without agreeing on what value means, you would never actually engage, or at least you wouldn't engage with what the other person is actually trying to say until like several levels into the argument that you were making. I think that's the fun part, though. I'm taking the fun. It sounds like you're taking the fun out of it. Well, that's what I mean.

Messy disagreement is actually great to watch two people really good at disagreeing. do, but really bad if you're trying to resolve anything, which is why you don't actually want to have a word that is so clean and binary. You want to have something that you just lose yourself in. Okay. Now you know. Got it. I hate you guys. What? That was bad. That was interesting.

You seemed like there was a period at the end of that. Here's a question that I've genuinely been curious about with you guys. the best form of famous. Who is famous best? Whose fame do you want? The whole world is available to draft. Who's famous do you want? Is there any financial association of this?

Yes. Or is it just the fame? There is financial association with it. You can monetize it. You can do whatever you want. No, no, no. That's not what I mean. What I mean is do you get this person's fame and wealth

or just their fame? I'm not saying you can you can then make money off that level of fame. What I'm saying is, do you understand what I'm saying? Do you understand the question I'm asking? I do. I'm making a list.

Because like I don't, this is not who I would pick. I don't think Chris Bosch's fame is hyper, hyper monetizable, but he's got a couple hundred million dollars already. So I'm asking if you, in that scenario,

if you were to pick Chris Bosch, do you take with you the couple hundred million $10 million. It's probably more interesting if the answer is no, that you're just getting their fame. Right. Right. It's celebrity. Do you have a answer for this? I have a draft pick. Okay. I want to hear yours if that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. I want to be Mike Trout. Mike Trout. I want to be revered among those who know what it is that I do and respect why it is that I'm good at it. But I also want the plausible deniability of ever actually being identified as or stopped as Mike Trout.

I mean, as far as a number one pick, can Mike Trout get into every restaurant? Because if you can't, if Mike Trout and his wife are going to, they said it's going to be 15 minutes, maybe 45. Like, she'd be like, honey, you're Mike Trout. I know, but I play with the Angels. What if Mike Trout has his assistant,

that's just him who has registered, Mike Trout assistant at Gmail? Then I'm not famous enough. a reservation request with the hyperlink to my baseball reference page. I don't know if that plays. I think I have a better answer. Let me hear you. What do you got?

Sully. Sully Sullenberger? Yeah, hero. Hero with a mustache. I think hero, like, hero for being cool, not just saving lives. You didn't just, you know, you're not a scientist that, you know, wow, this invention that you made, saved a lot of lives, which is very good. Don't get me wrong.

Like, no, I saved lives in a dramatic way in the city. Now, with the Tom Hanks movie, I guess he had to go to, people were mad at Sully for some reason? Yeah, but, yeah. I didn't like that part at all. Did they cancel Sully at the end of Sully? No, remember he was in the midst of it. People were, there was, if the Hanks movie's correct, he was really raked over the coals about

did you actually have to land in the Hudson? Yeah, I don't know who's given Sully. I would have gone to the congressional meeting. They came in, Sully. The events of January 15, 2009, have been well documented. And rather than recite them now in great detail, I want only to reiterate to the subcommittee that the successful outcome was achieved by the actions of many.

I think Sully is just great. Everybody loves him. But maybe he's got some waning fame, but he's just... Right, but so you are... Hero is nice. You want people to say thank you. Hero's nice.

But let me ask... Hero is pretty sick. Let me... Definitely sick, but let me ask a question. To me, that answer tells me you don't value at all like recognized on the street. No, that's probably a detriment. I don't think famous people like that at all.

So I think... Some people don't. Others... Tommy DeVito's agent lives for it. That's a good level of fame. But your draft pick is Tommy DeVito's No, that's not my draft pick. I was just saying, so it was just interesting

that Wilde picked a guy who I think Sean Stilado. Yeah, right? Only becomes recognized upon introduction and never randomly. You understand what I mean? Like people hear the name. And I think most people know it.

If you have the stash. Even with the stash, I got to tell you right now, I don't know what he, if I close my eyes and think of that guy, I just think of Tom Hanks. Like, I don't remember what the guy actually looks like. And if he was walking down the street, I wouldn't know him. What happened to us on the way in, that to me is awesome at that exact level. When we were walking in the building, somebody just walked by was like, hey, fellas, love the show. Like I, I, that's a great, like, endorphin boost. Yes.

I also think being truly famous would be exhausting. And I don't think that would be fun. No, but if the guy was like, hey, wilds and say, yeah, it's like, you're amazing for landing a plane. You know, remember saving all those lives. I agree. Thank you. I'm trying to think of the name of, like, who this describes. Because my answer would be someone who, if they.

they want to be recognized is wildly famous and like you said can get in anywhere no weight but also with sunglasses and a baseball cap on that's mike trout is that's the mic that's why i drafted mike trout neck but you're saying that mike trout couldn't can't just get in wait wait hold on are you describing like a dj like i'm a vici no i don't know people are like oh my No. I'll be honest. I'm lying here. I'm lying. I, whatever level of fame I have, I enjoy, and I would like more. So this, I don't want to be anonymous. I don't think, I think it would bum me out. It would bum you out to be anonymous?

Yeah, because I... I appreciate Nick's honesty because I, yeah, I unfortunately relate to this. But I've never, and you're going to laugh at me, but just follow me here. my entire adult life, I've had tiny, slightly increasing fame. I buy it like Kansas City radio. Right. So, Kansas City, right. And so at 23, once a week, someone would be like, yo, love the show.

And it's just slightly, so not only am I, has it never been weird for me? Because it's like watching your kid get taller. Like, you don't actually recognize it because you don't actually recognize it. You see them every day? You know what I mean? Like it's just been, but also I have no recollection of it not being there. So I think Wilds had a whole successful career without any real fame associated with it. And now in the last five years has gotten increasing levels of fame.

So Wilde has a standard to, like, oh, yeah, yeah, everything. Like, I was an adult with a wife and kids. And none of this. Yeah, you're like a child star, basically. No, that's not what I, again, that's why I said you're going to make fun of me. But to next point, you, Kevin, were a producer. Yeah. You were like having secret meetings with Kobe Bryant once upon a time.

Secret. But that's what you were doing. You were like producing, like, shows for the most famous and inconveniently famous people. Yeah. And Nick and I have been clawing up celebrity mountain. digging my fingernails into a tree trunk of celebrity. Yeah. So I think my answer is like Daniel Day Lewis.

I drink your milkshake. I drink it up. Because I don't think he. All that dude tries to do is hide. But he's different than me. It's such a perfect answer. But I think that he, I think that Daniel Day Lewis, if he wants to just go out and go to Walgreen,

is able to do it. But I also think it's like, shit, man, I want to be Daniel Day Lewis tonight. He obviously can be. That seems awesome. I guess so. You're like the chameleon. Yeah.

So like, because I initially, so someone like Mark Wahlberg, that seems exhausting. Like he just has to be Mark Wahlberg at all times. And everywhere he goes, like anyone that feels like I have to, you know what,

I have to have security, that seems exhausting. Mark Wahlberg walks around thinking that he could do a better job of saving people on an airplane than Sully. He did do an airplane movie. He also believed he could stop 9-11. I have another one. Yeah. Again, it's super, it's even more anonymous. I wrote Winston Wolf famous.

Oh. As in the fictional character. The fictional character Winston Wolf, where, for you. For some reason, he's in a tuxedo, so he must be in... That's tracks with you. He's rolling in these interesting circles. And when, who does it, Ving Rhoms? Ving Rhames.

Is you earnestly pronounce it, Roms? I didn't know, I don't know how you pronounce Ving Rames' name, but now I do. Mispronunciations are fine because it means you learned it by reading it instead of hearing it. I may have just misremembered it in any event. And then, San Juan Jackson, like, they're very excited to see him. Yeah. It seems like he's got a nice car. He has connections at the dumps.

You're Jimmy, right? This is your house? Sure is. I'm Winston Wolf. I solve problems. He's there to help you get out of a bind. But not necessarily, like, I don't want that to be my job necessarily. No, but what you mean is... Within an industry, I'm considered really... Yeah, drug kingpin famous.

That's an interesting type of famous. I do not. I think it's quite dangerous. No, I understand. But it's the same type of thing where it's like you are anonymous to every... everyone except for the people who know who you are and to those people, you're a big deal. This is... And in that element, that's also like, kind of like a sully thing. I would urge you to reconsider.

And do Mike Trout? Taking Mike Trout. Taking Mike Trout. He gives you drug kingpin fame. I didn't want that. Without having... I do not want... Assassination as a concern.

...at all. No, I was just trying to... Maybe I should use a different analogy. Phil Ivy That's a good level of fame Where once again People who know know And to those people

That's a great level of fame To those people you're a god Conspicuous also But also you're You know what I mean to That's what mine is But it's like I can wear a tuxedo Yeah

I'm big on if I can wear a tuxedo That was a good question Pablo Do you have a list of questions That we should have let you ask Instead we just said dumb stuff For 40 minutes We've reached the end of the show And at the end of every show

we talk about what we found out today because it's called Pablo Tori finds out. So I will ask us to go around the table and we all say what it is we found out after hanging out with each other and finding all this stuff out. I have found out that Nick Wright

drafting Daniel DeLuis is the perfect answer for a guy who I can't tell is acting or not. You can't tell if I'm acting? I think you are a method arguer. And that is the highest compliment I can pay to you.

I'm not acting. I don't think he's acting. It's just a character. He's just a real-life character. What did I learn? That Sean Stilato was in fact Tommy DeVito's agent's name. No, I knew that. I saw you at Yankee Stadium, by the way, at Game 5.

We said hello to each other. Yes, but I think Sean Stalado was also there. Yeah, I know. That's the bit that I eat. Sean Stalado, you know why you recognized him? Because he was walking around begging people to recognize. him and hoping someone said please take a picture with me like that's why wiles doesn't like me saying this because he thinks it's mean and it is mean but sometimes truths need to be spoken go ahead you

go on what you learned and then i'll go i also just learned that truth i learned i hurt paulo's feelings at your christmas party i don't think you hurt his feelings i don't think that was a takeaway i've learned i found out that nick is uh projecting onto my feelings is maybe his own own part No, it's not. I'm trying to find a nicer one because the one that's actually there, I feel like it's not. Take it. Take it. I think you guys are nuts for not wanting to be anonymous.

Like, I feel like you're like headed towards, you're going to be in the old folks home. You're like, hello? I'm like, it's just, I don't know. I don't think that's a. I'm going to be podcasting till I die. So, yeah. I guess. Call me crazy.

I don't know. The external validation is a little. concerning for me. I didn't have you guys pegged for that. Really? Maybe you didn't have me pegged for that? For external validation? What I have found out is that Kevin Wilde is terrible at pegging people for me.

No, I did. For external validate, I didn't know. No, because you're kind of like, I don't know. I thought the art of the take was good enough. No. Like, I asked you a question. If you were on a deserted island, but this setup, just you, do you think you would give takes?

Of course. That's what I'm saying. but it would just be a mic plugged into nowhere and you'd be like all right yeah no so both things can be true in itself is fulfilling a thousand percent that is true what is also true is

I have become addicted to the occasional what I call it endorphin boost or ego boost or whatever of the stranger saying you know saying like what you do.

I'm recognizing me or whatever and I have become very with something that I do not is not a positive trait but I recognize it I've become very impatient on lines because like I still go out to clubs

and stuff with my wife and I used to oh there's a line we'll just wait in it and I just don't have the capability anymore I'm like, no, can do it Can't do it. I can't. That's not a public-facing thing.

You think that's just getting older? Yes. No, so I, maybe, but it's... My time's running out. As soon as you get old, the older you get, the less interested you are in lines. Like, if you're 88, like, man, I've got limited time here. That part's true. I'm not weighed in a line.

Yes, but it's also why... I don't think human beings are wired for fame. and I just, I think it is unnatural, and it's prior to the last 20 years, very, very, very few people were actually had any fame. And everyone wondered, like, what's happening to society, whatever, that's too wide-ranging. but I truly believe millions of people now having an element of notoriety or fame via a social media following has is the symptom of so much of people losing their minds. People get more anchored to opinions they had because you used to be able to have a bad opinion anonymously and change it.

Now it's like, eight years ago I posted on Facebook that I believed this and now people, I'm tied to that, like a bad sports take that people won't let go of. And I think that people have started manicuring and curating their own belief system to what they think they're following likes because people aren't wired to deal with fame. And so I think one of the other pieces of that is once you have an element of it, I think most people feel they need it. I'm not saying it's healthy, but I think it's more typical than you would think of people who've been in the the public eye for a long time, needing to keep some relevance. I'm like that. What are you laughing?

Can we end the podcast with a funny story? Proceed. Belmont Stakes. We're there. Fox has it. So we're there. I've got my kids with me. Did you?

Oh, you brought, um, I brought my daughter and a best friend. And there's some executives there. And it's just a great time. And then Nick is, there's, I felt like, maybe I'm just telling myself this. but you had some like gambling crossover that maybe people recognize you from poker because they're yeah a little bit of poker a little bit of sports globally competitive poker player thanks Pablo accurate the nicest thing you've said to me two hours guy comes over to like the little you're in like little squares and the guy comes over and said oh nick love the show and I'm like I'm on the show

you know I'm on the show it's hard to like consume the show and not stumble across me you know it's like I like I love the steak I was like, I'm the salt shaker. Like, I'm there. I'm not saying I'm the star of the show, but I am there and you usually have to spot me. And then Nick very kindly senses this kind of tension because the guy's talking about the show.

And, you know, Wilds, he goes, I don't, you know, Wild's right here. And the guy looks at me and goes, I think he said, do you want a picture with him? And the guy goes, yeah. Just kept talking to me. Didn't walk away. No.

It was just, he's like, I'm like, buddy, it's not even on film. It's not even a college. It's just a free. It's not like when I was growing up, we only had 12 pieces of Kodak and we don't want to waste one. There you go.

That's my level of fame. Kevin Wilde. Nick Wright. I mean this when I say this. Two of the greatest guests in the history of Paula Trey finds out. Why is it a trick? Because remember he said, it's like a messy entanglement.

Thanks, Pablo. Bye, Pablo. Pablo Tore finds out, is produced by Walter Aberoma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lohman, Rob McCray, Rachel Miller-Howard, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, Chris Tumenello, and Juliet Warren.

Our studio engineering by RG Systems, our sound designed by NGW Post. Our theme song, as always, is by John Bravo, and we will talk to you next time.