Pablo Torre Finds Out - Share & Grill & Tell with Mike Golic Jr. and Mina Kimes

Episode Date: March 28, 2025

Did the late George Foreman's merchandising millions almost go to Chuck Norris instead? What aren't influencers selling to men these days? And is this season of The White Lotus actually good? (Spoiler alert for later in this episode: If you've seen through Episode 6, you're good.) And more from Pablo's trip to L.A.: the neck hammock, erect rods, and OnlyEyes. Further content:George Foreman Turned a Home Grill Into a Culinary Heavyweight (Kim Severson)https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/22/dining/george-foreman-grill.htmlIt's Bait (Rebecca Jennings)https://www.vulture.com/article/ashton-hall-morning-routine.htmlLet's Talk About the [Spoiler Alert] on The White Lotus, with Help From Some Experts (Eliana Dockterman)https://time.com/7269550/the-white-lotus-incest-lochlan-saxon/Subscribe to The Mina Kimes Show (featuring Lenny) podcasthttps://www.youtube.com/@minakimes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. Today's episode is brought to you by Draft Kings. Graph Kings, the crown is yours. And today we're going to find out what this sound is. Show us the rods. Meena's showing rods. She's showing rods on the chat. For free? Better rods than cones. Right after this ad. You're listening to Draft Kings Network. I recently went to the eye doctor and I, for the first,

time in like six years didn't go up a number. It's a big day. It was a big day. Does that mean it's gotten as bad as it could get? I think more that. I think I've maxed out. I think they're just like, uh, at this point. Are you at the point where you have readers?

I don't have readers. I work contacts all day, though. Gotcha. I'm still fond of sleep with these things in my eyeballs. The last thing that I should do is the thing I do so often. When you go to the eye doctor now, do they give you the option of buying the 3D rendering to the inside of your eye that looks like, like, Lord of the Rings.

I'll show you what it looks like. Hold on the ones. I didn't know that was an option. You can get your Sauron picture taken? It seems completely unnecessary. You can get a sonogram of your eyeball? This is what inside of everyone's eye looks like. Does it not look like Soron?

It does look like the eye of Sauron. The crazy part of it, you see your eyelashes? Yeah. And then it's like the Aurora Borealis. Right. Then you realize like, oh, wow, like this is. And then all the, like, capillaries. It's so, like, it looks.

It looks like a Van Gogh painting or something, too. That's, yeah, the top of my eye and the, yeah, the bottom. That's cool, right? Exclusive Mina Kimes' eyeball footage. Love that we're starting with that. By the way, speaking of seeing things, it is so good to see my Golic Jr. My eyeballs, my rods could not be more erect upon seeing the man. So we're reuniting for the first time since I was in L.A.

It's been roughly about a year since we taped Celebrity Family Feud. and just seeing both you guys obviously but gojo in any sort of capacity just reminds me of feeling the greatest i will ever feel in my life being at this building reminds me of when i like sheepishly tried to bully you guys into letting me come to the taping of that you had mentioned it and i was just like so what are you guys doing later can i come just worked my way into the crowd so i could go be a giant and a crowd full of short people you are many things, and I hope this doesn't sound like I'm limiting you to a role, but you are the ultimate plus one. Like, ultimate guest. America's plus one. Like that is, you're nodding because

you know it's true. Like the other day, a real compliment. A friend of mine, this guy and I went to college with was like, hey, I got tickets to the Conccaf semis at, um, sofi. And it was USA versus Panama and Mexico versus Canada. And then another ticket sprang open. And I was like, of course I'm and ask Michael Jr., and you're like, yeah, I go, what is it about you? Everybody loved you, fit right in? I think also the- You provide bodyguard services. Also, that added beef to the equation.

Howie Roseman's world, people understand the value of having large bodies around. Yeah. You win parties in the trenches. I've often said that. But I think it's twofold. One, it's attitude. Like, my sister was appalled when she heard that I did that. She's like, how were you ready to go in an hour for something?

like that. And the turnaround time and the willingness there because I am an adult without children. Like I don't have responsibilities. I don't have a dog. I don't have kids at home. And so I can pick up and go. Sarah Spain, the reason I got to go and see the Ted Lassos season premiere one year was because Sarah was out here in Los Angeles with her husband for that. And they had an extra ticket that popped up. And Sarah literally said, you're the only person I know without kids who could be ready in an hour on a Tuesday night to come to Brentwood and hang out with the cast there. So being, I mean, it's kind of like sports. The best ability is availability, and I'm criminally available.

You're also willing. Yes. Which is, it's willing and able. And you're like, and you're down. You're just like down to do anything. I like to think, too, that I can get along with a lot of groups. Like, if you just throw me into a group of people I haven't met, I'm not going to embarrass you in front of company.

You got there before me. We're just hanging out with everyone. Yeah, social safe harbor is what I think of. Just like, you're a port in a storm. It's such a great compliment. It is, truly. Touched. I don't know what part of that you thought would be, like, offensive to me.

That is the ultimate compliment. Plus one implies you're not, like, the main character. Yeah. I feel like... Yeah. I'm fine not being the main character. That I think is part of it as well, though. You're not...

You not having main character syndrome? Yes, you're not like a look at me, Louie. Yeah. Again, not to make everything sports, but like I was an offensive alignment. Like, talk about wanting to not be the main character. That's my life. It also helps being friends with main characters who have cool tickets to stuff. Which, I mean, most of my cool experiences when I tell people about them in L.A.,

it's like, isn't that mean I had a plus one to that? No. The Love is Blind finale? What's up? I do want to start today's show with the topic that I've been. thinking about deeply. And it starts with a bit of sadness because George Foreman, a mountain of a man in his own right, he died last week at age 76. And for people who don't know, Foreman was one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. He was somebody who insinuated himself into the tripod that was

Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier and George Foreman. He was a guy who fought Ali at the Rumble in the jungle. His first pro fight was 1969. His last fight was 1997. But his legacy, Speaking of how we perceive the great characters in our lives, his legacy, you could argue, was actually this. Had a busy day, my lean, mean, fat, reducing, grilling machine is great to come home to. It lets you prepare hot, delicious meals in just minutes. My extra large grill with temperature control is only available from Sears, and it's a knockout. Dinner's ready, George.

I'm so proud of it. I put my name on it. Have you guys ever used the George Forge? Norman grill before. Are we American humans on this earth? Yeah. I figured that wasn't everyone thing. Like, just a right of passage. So statistically, it's also real.

So in the 1990s, the George Foreman, Lean, Mean, Fat Reducing Grilling Machine, that was the title, was the second most purchased home appliance after the television. Wow. Oh, my God. So let's just sit with that for a second. And the visuals, in case you're not watching on YouTube, which you obviously should, to see both the size contrast between me and Michael Lick Jr., but also what it looks like to see a George Foreman grill. It's simple. I mean, visually, it's like a pinini press, but on a slope.

The angle was really the innovation, right? Like just that ability to knock out the fat into that tray in front, the tagline, all of it worked so well. And, I mean, I don't know, as someone that grew up in a cold weather environment, being able to grill stuff in the wintertime inside the... indoors, huge. So when that came out, because I was a child, so I barely remember. I just remember everyone had one. I remember using it. I remember the commercials and other things about George Foreman.

But since then, so many imitators have sprung up. And I think actually at the time, not many people had, I don't think Paninis were even a thing. No, this was the forerunner of the Panini press. Yes. Which then became omnipresent. So at the time, nothing like this really existed. So the origin story of this is actually fascinating. And it involves an inventor who had,

what he called a short-order grill, but in the 90s, this is his QVC era. Yeah. Right? So this was, imagine, like, the primordial ooze of name, image, and likeness. Yeah. Was, like, television for us as kids. You'd turn on the television and there'd be celebrity pitchmen.

And so for the George Foreman Grill, and again, I had one in my house. I had one in my first apartment. My roommate Juan would attract hundreds of mice with that grease tray inadvertently, all of that. The reason why all of this was, happening, why it became the most successful athlete branded product of all time, short of, I believe, the Air Jordan, which is an incredible, an incredible thing. It begins actually our story

of this with something that Hulk Hogan told our friend Dan Lebitard in 2014, unhally questionable, a show we all know, have done, because Hulk Hogan, Terry Belia, told Dan that he missed a phone call that would have enabled him to be the king of the grill. Is it true that you passed on the George Foreman grill idea? No, that's not true. I missed the phone call. What happened? Tell me the story.

Well, I mean, you know, George Foreman and I had the same agent. And my kids were complaining that I was always towards the end of the line picking them up at school. They would get out of school at 3 o'clock, and these soccer moms would start lining up their minivans and talking shop. And so I would come a quarter to three, 15 minutes before my kids get out of school. I was at the back of the bus. So I went to McDonald's early, got Diet Coke's and get the burgers and the fries. And it was a big surprise. I got to the school about quarter after two.

I was the first one in line. My kids came out. They were all excited. I had the drinks and the hamburgers and stuff. And we went home and I checked my answer machine. And my answer machine, my agent called me. He goes, Hey, Hogan, I'm calling you. I got two things.

I got a grill and I got a blender. I got these two choices for you and George. So when I called him back, my agent says, well, I called you first. And I figured you'd take the grill, but you weren't home. So I called George, and he took the grill. So $450 million later, we've got the George Foreman grill on every size and color you can imagine. And I got the blender that you put eight ounces of water, a scoop of protein, and a double-A battery. And it'd spend three times and fart and cut off.

I was just going to ask if we knew the whereabouts of the blender. Because it sounds like the magic bullet. Mike, I was hoping. someone would ask. It was called the Hulk Hogan Thunder Mixer. It was a real thing. It did, in fact, fart out stuff and was terrible. He also tried to make his own grill, by the way,

Hulk Hogan, and it failed, obviously. Nothing could compete. So this is an incredible, like, sliding door as alternate history in which Hulk Hogan becomes what George Foreman became in all of his economic success and his cultural influence. A different country, I might even argue. Yeah, right. Yes, for a lot of reasons.

So what we wanted to do is fact-check this, and immediately we went to the grill's inventor, to mean his question, this guy, Michael Bohm, and what his family did and they issued a statement to us, here a public story finds out, because they dispute the Hulkster's cataloguing of events. Quote, George Foreman was the only celebrity our dad approached about endorsing the grill.

We don't know who started the story about Hulk Hogan being approached, but it isn't accurate, end quote. And so immediately I'm like, okay, we have a real he said, she said, Hulk said, Hulk said, Hulk Hogan cited in that clip was a guy named Sam, it turns out. The agent who repped both Hulk Hogan and George Foreman, unfortunately, Sam also passed away. This was last fall. But they shared a lawyer. And the lawyer is a guy named Henry Holmes, and that lawyer, Henry Holmes, told us also that the Hulk Hogan story is, quote, not my recollection. And in fact, in fact, what he said was that it was two other celebrities that their shared representation, their agent, was asking about.

And he says, well, I want to get involved in merchandising. I'd love to do something with Pam Landerson. And I said, Pammy's very particular, Sam. And I don't think you have her sensibilities. I'll ask. And then he had a great eye. He said, what about Chuck Norris? And we could do a lock deal.

And I said, well, you know, Chuck is busy, what is, television stuff. He said, can you talk to George? So George says, tell him to find an hamburger grill. This is really who's who of the most famous people in the 1990s. It really is. It really is. And so I was just thinking about how each of them would have worked. Like, obviously, regardless of feelings about,

Hulk Hogan and what he represents, based on that time period in his stardom, grill probably still would have worked. Pam Anderson and Chuck Norris are interesting to me because looking and thinking back on this now, part of the George Foreman appeal in my mind is always the underlying thing in food conversations, which is I trust a big guy. George Foreman, big guy, cooking the food in there, I'm like, oh, yeah, of course he knows what he's talking about in food. Look at how much food he's probably eaten over the years.

And so, of course, I trust a big guy more so like, you know, Pam Anderson, Chuck Norris. I know Chuck Norris had like the total gym, so maybe not a super far cry, but George just felt like the perfect symphony of background and enthusiasm for the product that we saw, all those things that came together and made it work. Does it feel authentic to him, I think, is the question. When you think about athlete sponsorships, right? We don't believe it if we can't imagine you using it. And George Foreman, this is a detail that I'm so glad, again, Gojo's here to learn.

George Foreman was known for eating two burgers before fights. He was the self-described cheeseburger champ. God. But that's what I mean. This is preceded the grill. Yes. So he actually, Foreman is a bigger character in the origin story of his own. Again, what we thought was someone else's externally imposed sponsorship than he ever got credit for.

And so the Cheeseburger Champ, what they do is that he signs a deal. that's inspired by Michael Jordan's mother's negotiations with Nike. So this is a famous sports business story. It's no upfront guarantees, but the back end, George Foreman gets 45%. Oh, 45%. So George owned part of this licensing deal.

And the first few months, it wasn't really generating a lot. And we all got together and say, well, this, you know, it was George punching and stuff. So we taught, and George was part of the discussion. And I said, let's make him a cook that he's cooking. He had the hamburger, you know, a presentation when he was training for fights. And so we changed the infomercial. and it hit like a bang.

Isn't this exciting? You did not come here today to box, right? Not at all, as a matter of fact. Then, no, da-da-da. Now, I'm in the office, and they said, George is on the call. It's an emergency, and I went, emergency. So, yeah, George, it's Henry.

Are they laundering money? Who's laundering money? Did you see our check on the grid? I said, you know, I don't pay attention to that. But let me, oh my God, maybe they are laundering money. At the height of the girl's popularity, George Foreman was being paid $8 million a month. And this was in the 90s, right? This is in the 90s.

Eight million dollars a month in the 90s. Random question. Do they still sell them? I am so glad you asked. So when I look this up on Amazon, it's the most popular indoor grill product still today. Still going. Still going. Still going. Well, it's, I was thinking about it, too. It's like Google, where anything I see that is like this, to me, is a George Foreman grill. The same way that, like, Xerox. Zerox. Fandek, Kleenex, all these things are not just brands. They are the product.

Follow-up thought. Do we think that the Zumer generation even knows George Foreman was. a boxer. I think there's a real chance that they don't. I think there's a real chance that he's merely the autographed cursive name on this thing that their parents have at home. I think they might not even remember that George Foreman in 1997, this is his last fight, like all boxers, he retired, unretired, fought when it was way too late. And so the last fight of his career, he loses to a guy named Shannon Briggs that I personally don't remember otherwise. It's the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City. George Foreman is standing in the ring post-game interview. He says this.

George, your reaction to the decision. Well, Larry, I want you to see something. Look, that's about eight weeks I spent on that George Foreman, lean, mean, fat-reducing grilling machine. I'll grill right in the bedroom, steaks and salmon steaks. And I was able to lose a lot of weight, and I use it that thing really works. And recently in Texas, they just started this home equity loans. People can borrow that little extra money they need on the mortgages.

And what has that got to do? with the price of tea in China or the result of this fight. I'm trying to sell my grill, Larry. Jeez. The goat. The pitch man goat is what we just witnessed in that clip. We are all obviously sad for his family that he has been lost. I have to imagine that outside of them,

the saddest people on the planet that George is no longer with us are the Paul brothers that they couldn't rope him into a fight. Because that kind of energy in that, That environment is perfect. I feel like the innovation right now is happening at the NIL level. Like, what's the air conditioner? DeColdus Crawford. DeColdus Crawford getting the AC sponsorship in Nebraska.

Yep. Hey, this is Dakota's Crawford. Rob receiver from Louisiana. Now I'm playing at Lincoln. When your AC isn't the Dakotis, you call SOS heating and cooling. I will say one that comes to mind was Kyler Murray getting a call of duty deal. That was funny. Oh, that's good.

Well done. Yeah. We fully believe that he is going to continue to play that game. And that cuts to the Foreman principle, which is what you were saying. Like, do you trust a big guy to sell a grill? Yes, I trust Kyla Murray to sell video games, yes. George Foreman, to give a more economic context to this, so all boxers effectively go broke.

And five years after the manufacturer made this licensing deal with George Foreman, they then bought their rights to his name for 148.5 million. dollars, which is just we don't respect what this man accomplished as much as we have paid tribute to him as what he was, which was one of the great heavyweights at a time when heavyweight fighters, of course, were the most important people in sports. I don't want to celebrate Bobby Bonilla Day anymore. I want to celebrate George Foreman Day because my dad always jokes when he would sign something or someone would show like, hey, this is on eBay.

My dad's like, well, my signature probably brought the value down on that. George's signature was worth $148 million. That's insane. Celebrate that man. Explains why he named all his kids after him. Right? All of them. George, Georgina, Georgette.

George Foreman's children, I'm going to give you some of the names on the depth chart. George Jr., Georgetta, George the 3rd, George the 4th, which is, again, interesting. George the 5th. Wait for it. George the 6th. And Natalie. If you're Natalie, are you thrilled or pissed?

They also have nicknames. Yes. Wait, this is I looked up the other day. This is my favorite part of the George Forman children roster. So George the 3rd is Monk. George the 4th is Bigwheel. George the 5th is red. and George the 6th, very confusingly, is Little Joey.

I need to know the backstory of Big Wheel so badly. That sounds like a prime little kid nickname. That feels like another episode entirely. Oh, man. Big Wheel. Big Wheel. Big Wheel. If your circle of friends isn't handing out nicknames like Big Wheel, you need a new circle.

All right, Mina. What did you bring today is your topic? The story that I want to start with is the former running back turned influencer Ashton Hall. He is an influencer before this. He was pretty active on TikTok. Anyways, went viral really like a week ago. It's been a week now that we've lived in this Ashton Hall here. It's only been a week.

I know. Post his morning routine on, actually, it went viral on Twitter. But he's a TikTok guy. And so he's a Florida-based fitness trainer who often post videos of his daily routine. This routine, however, took off and went viral because it features him. It has like little timestamps. And it has notably him pouring a bottle of Saratoga water, Ceratoga Springs water, into a bowl of ice. And then that was at 5.46 a.m. doing his workout and then doing a lot of other strange things. But at 908, 9 a.m. dunking his face into the bottle of water.

Many people made parodies of it, including our own Mike Golick Jr. So for the audio audience, go check out Mike Golick Jr.'s video. It has him pouring a bowl of lucky charms and then dunking his face into it. Yeah, which feels like, again, authentically, actually, what plausibly Mike Golick Jr. might be doing in the morning. 100%. So when I'm on TikTok, the algorithm, all I see is, not all I see, but a lot of what I see is very beautiful young women trying to sell me very cheap and ugly clothing.

Like, you would not believe, like, this $20 dress looks amazing on everyone. And I can look at it. I'm like, this is obviously very ugly. And, like, you look amazing in it because you're hot. Also, we see, like, Get Ready with Me routines, a lot of that. There's a lot of reality TV content. So my question was, men, what is the, like, male equivalent of that unique to them? Like, in addition to seeing that kind of crap, I also see, you know, like a lot of mock drafts and whatnot.

So I know that every man is... I like that mean his algorithm is Fashion Nova and Mock drafts. Yes. You know, every... You're all beautiful, special snowflakes with your own individually catered algorithms. I'm sure Mikes has a lot of very key differences from Pablo's. That said, I do think there's... Right now, regardless, specific to gender, you are seeing influencers

pitch you the same crap. And so when I saw this video, I thought, wow, this is a lot of what I imagine men, regardless of even if you're a man who works out a lot. Like, men are seeing this. So that's my question. I would pause. Like, what is the slap?

What are male influencers pitching to men right now? Well, like, with this one, and it's the most common one, it's being jacked and appearing successful is the thing that they want to sell most men. I did go through and look specifically at the ads I was served on TikTok the other day, like what people were actually trying to sell me. And it's a mix of really shoddy t-shirts that have things like a dog with a beer can in its mouth or Japanese anime characters on it, which might be a personal thing. Again, the center of the Venn diagram that is you.

There is also the push-up board, which offers you the ability to do push-ups from different angles and thus to hit different muscle groups. A lot of custom hats and mugs, which are big on that. And the two things I think I see most often for men that are being marketed are competitive brands of like athleisure dress pants,

like different versions of like Lulu Lemon, like Chino's, some version of that where it's like, my boyfriend used to buy, and a lot of times it's also women talking about men, which is the other thing we get served a lot. Interesting. is it's women being like, my boyfriend had these and I hated it. And then he got these and now I loved it.

Right. And now when I'm at my standing treadmill desk, I am absolutely equipped to be on a Zoom call as well as, you know, moisture wicking my legs. Yes. Fellas love a moisture wick, apparently, because that's all our clothes are made. Like, they make suits now. Tech fabrics. Oh, man.

Tech fabric suits. Yeah, we're on that same quadrant of the algorithm of like this suit is also something that is kind of able to be danced inside of? So this is actually a response I got a lot, and then I mentioned to my husband, and he co-signed it, which is just putting the word tactical in front of stuff. And he gets like tactical baby carrier, tactical stroller, because our algorithms show us a lot of kid stuff, right, because I'll spend a little too much time watching someone be like, here's a minute how to get your kid to fall asleep every time.

And I'm like, ah, ha. So we get now advertised to that. But is there anything like they won't put tactical in front of for men? I mean, if we're doing stroller, the answer is no. Like, what is a tactical stroller? Does it have a mounted turret on the back? It's camo, first of all. That's always what it is, is it's just, hey, we made a camo for you.

With like an extra pocket. But hey, big boy, you think because you play a lot of call of duty, you're ready to fight in the military, so we'll give you some tactical gear to go with that misguided belief. Yeah, my tactical boxer shorts, which have, like, loops for carabiners, super, super popular. Honestly, it is a lot. There are a lot more boxer brands than you realize, too.

It really is, like, it's putting tactical in front of it and then assuring you, we will take care of your privates. Because the amount of, like, male trimmers that are on there, wow. Oh, yeah.

Too many to count. Wow. Yeah, I want to clarify, I am not my clicks. So I think this is just a philosophy that all of us should embrace more. The algorithm is not who we are. It is who we have been tempted

by an unfair dark force in Silicon Valley to become. I think that's worth emphasizing here, though, because I have never once purchased an item of clothing from TikTok, but they're still trying, man. So I like that point that you made, and that's why I do think there are, like, aspects of it where they are showing things I know I will like. But they are really, they, the omniscient day,

these apps are mixing things that I have never shown. shown an indication of liking, and yet they're still trying. It's like being hunted. And it's like, yeah, you know where I drink at the watering hole, what time I'm there. You know that I have the capacity to sometimes fall through the little trap you've said. It just sticks in some leaves over it. I get it. But I'm not actually always trying to go there.

You are putting it in front of me because I feel, you think that I'm weak. And sometimes I am. Well, so that's the thing I was going to ask is because, meaning you've not bought anything on the TikTok shop. Man, I bought one of those things where you hang it over the doorknob of a door, and it's called a neck hammock. What? So I get a lot of chiropractor videos. Do you have back problems? I have a lot of like...

Oh, wow. On command. That was impressive. Horrible. And real. Yes. Okay. So the algorithm does know you here. So they sold me a neck hammy.

The predator hunting me sold me a neck hammock. And so did I, at various points, hang it on a doorknob in my house and then lie down and try to recreate the release that I was promised in this short form video that was euphoric and almost orgasmic? Yes, I tried to get that and I felt none of it. Tactical neck hammock. I was going to say, if you put camel on it, you immediately become the core demographic. But we are sort of the perfect generation. for this in some ways because, as evidenced by the George Foreman Grill, this has been a part, like, I remember begging my mom, like, mom, I am a maybe 12, 13 year old boy not doing my own

laundry at this point, but I'm like, mom, we got to get oxy clean. Oh my God. It's incredible. It was, like, all of those, like the slap tape. All of that stuff was this. The one where they put it on a clear boat? Yes. And it stayed up.

And it doesn't say? Shamwow. I had all of that stuff because I was a mark then as a kid. I like your point, though, about the through line here because it's interesting to think, like, those commercials, we were children, they were really good advertising, right? Like, it was just, like, we saw the George Warman commercial. I don't think any of this stuff that we're saying now is particularly well-made or thoughtful or well-crafted.

It's just relentless. Yes, I think, so this, my nostalgia, I realize, as we say this, out is for the story, the story of this product, the narrative that they're weaving. That's why it sticks with me now. Right now, if you ask me to remember the ad that sold me, the neck hammock, I don't remember it. It's just like the general sense that, ah, someone made a sound. But there was no story there.

It was like five seconds. And that's the part that it's like, oh, that's how little you think of us now. At least there, it felt like there was some effort. but with this now, like going all the way back to the Ashton Hall story, I don't know if he was paid by the water company or not, but I've seen their sales have gone crazy because everyone's buying it even ironically just to do videos to mock it. But with that, there was no sell to it.

It was just the sell with all of these people. And Meena, you talked about it with the dresses, the majority of influences. Look at how hot this person is. Look at how rich this person looks. And don't you want the thing that they're also using so that you will also appear rich, which is a concept that's pretty well worn.

But in those infomercials, that wasn't it. It was, hey, I can keep a boat afloat with this weird-ass tape. That's sick. Look what it can do. The other thing, like back then, there were people who were addicted to it, right? Like, I seen on TV, it was not a common thing. Now it's like the thing is there.

It's relentless. And it's also being fed to you on a device where with one click you can get it. And it's cheap also because costs have come down even further because of, you know, manufacturing and whatnot and delivery. So it's just so much more insidious now, I think, than it was then. Yeah, we are nostalgic for a time when, as seen on TV, feels, in retrospect, like it's high art relative to what we're doing. When it was criticized at the time as being, like, the slop.

Yes. People were very, very, like, negative about this. Yeah, it felt like that was preying on us. We now realize that, God, it was, it was. It was a golden age. Are we really just trapped by our own nostalgia, though? Because Pablo, you mentioned the relentless nature of it. And who among us does not remember being woken up after falling asleep on the couch in the middle of the night with the TV on by the sounds of one of the,

now that's what I call music CDs that's being advertised or any of those where it just immediately hits you, blast you with this number, and you hear it over and over so often. I could at that time recite every song. It was like the riff off in Pitch Perfect where a lot of those songs now I only know in the context of how they flow into each other in that movie. You used to know those songs based on

how they would flow into the next track on that album of 80s hits or whatever now that's what I call music version. And it was also equally relentless in a way that felt subliminal at that point. Now that's what I call music. I haven't thought about that in so long. I made my mom buy me the, I think like the 2000s pop one.

when I was in junior high, a lot of Brittany. And those were like the best-selling CDs. Yes. As they should have been. Yes. I do not realize that we're... I'm just nostalgic for a time when my neck didn't have to be cracked. Yeah.

It's not the ads. It's the life around the ads that's changed. Mike, what did you bring? Pablo Torre finds out. I brought a question about a very popular. TV show that was posed in our group chat, which was White Lotus, the current season that's out of the hit HBO series that is now in season three where, you know, every year the show begins with a crime or a death that gives way to a story that usually takes place in some faraway land

surrounding a bunch of people that come together from different lies and are tied to some hotel or resort this season's in Thailand right now. And I think as the recording of the this podcast, we are six episodes into this season. So, spoiler alert for anybody that's not all the way caught up. But is this season of White Lotus actually good? No. Ooh. It's not. Coming out firing. It's not. And I don't think that's the wrong answer, but I guess my question is, why with shows like this? And I feel like a subsidiary of this has been season two of severance in some ways, which is, I feel like there's a lot of societal pressure to just nod and agree that shows made by certain networks. Are you using this topic to get to a hotter take, which is at Severance, season two, is not good?

It's a really good sci-fi show that people are trying to constantly convince me as the most well-thought-out prestige show of all. Well, I feel like this elevates to an even not hotter, but maybe more overarching thesis, which is a lot of television now isn't good. It just looks good and has good actors. And I think that is what's happening with... Because, to bring it back to my Lotus, I both look forward to watching it every week and enjoy watching it, but also don't think it's a particularly good television show this season.

And I think the fact that those two things are happening at the same time is kind of interesting. It does feel like watching an architectural digest tour. Right? Love those, though. And it is... Same. I am those clicks, actually.

I fully identify as somebody. Who wants to get a tour of, yeah, Cape Blanchette's rustic townhome. I am somebody who wants to see what it's like when beautiful people live in beautiful places. I am a simple creature in that regard. What I sort of chafe against is how easy it's been to drag out plots that could be accomplished in 30 minutes. That part, to me, feels like the big triumph of aesthetics over. substance. And I think a lot of this also boils back to like fan culture around these shows because the Reddits that pop up, the internet theories that surround these shows and the people

that in all walks of life, you know, the idea of being a ball knower is this thing we lionize over everything else. And if you push back at all on this show, it's, well, it's a slow burn. You have to appreciate that. It's like, all right, like you don't have to insult me like that. Not every slow burn is well-earned in the payoff that you get at the end. And with this, it does just feel like, hey, this is just the vacation porn this season, not to use that last term too loosely, considering the other subplot of this show that's... Which is incest.

That plot doesn't make sense. Not that it doesn't make sense, but it doesn't feel like it's building towards anything or has any true function in the story. Again, if you're listening to this, you watch the show, you got up. So we don't have to do the spoiler disclosure over, whatever. The two brothers having like a sort of, not mildly now, incestuous storyline, that's not interesting to me. There's no reason it's there. I would also argue some of the characters feel like retreads.

Patrick Schwarzenegger's character is one of the two brothers. They've done that character now three times, which is the A-Hole White Bro Finance dude, right? The first season, it was excellent. I thought the first season. I was like, this is great. I love that actor. Jake Lacey. He's really good.

Second season, Theo James. But now it's like, wow. And Patrick Sarchanaker is actually pretty good at it. I just feel like, we're doing this again? The dad, every episode. The dad is... Every episode is the same thing with the dad. Also, dream sequences.

Come on. I know. I would say the only storyline that I find kind of interesting because it feels a little bit new is the female friendship storyline, which is very funny. As much as I resent this show for taking my time, I'm still trying to figure out, am I missing something such that my time has not been wasted?

So I've been reading these interviews, and it's like it was intended to be this blob that is Mike White, the creator of the show apparently, who loves going on vacation, encountered three blonde women like this that he called the blob because you couldn't distinguish them except for when they were trashing each other. And so, yes, this hydra of women and the infighting does feel like something that the show hasn't quite tackled. And it's a story. It's happening. It's evolving. Things happen with them. I'll throw out another theory because I'm thinking about okay so we like the show or we watch it

it's where we find it very smooth because of the aesthetics because the actress great actors every season the season the actors are good this is not the problem with the show I would also argue it almost feels like the show is being made

for memes rather than like to tell a story because I think about Parker Posey's character who just like speaks in memes basically right Walton Goggins the scene with Sam Rockwell was so interesting like so like wow the Asian women

Yeah, this guy tells the story. But like, why, to what end? It was a great memetic moment, but then it's over? I don't know. That's how I feel watching it. This whole season has felt like a series of just small, encapsulated, unrelated, that aren't paying off to something else. Like, I was reading, I think Time Magazine did, like, an article breaking down this season

and was talking to experts, especially with the, again, the incest subplot. They were looking at some psychoanalysis there. But they brought up, like, Game of Thrones and how. that had, but it was like, that gave way to a plot line that had that at the center that went on to go and be incredibly impactful in the dynamic of that relationship was, you know, a little more germane at the times and also just a fantasy show. Like, it still wasn't great to see. It's not like we're promoting that by any means. It was still a very uncomfortable part of that show. But they also didn't make it the show's whole personality. Like this whole season has felt like just kind of dancing around getting to that point. And the only person, now that Jennifer Coolidge is gone, which is the other reason I think this season suffered,

is my guy, Guy Talk. He's the only one I have to root for. Oh, God, but I, so I would... I hate him. Really? As somebody who should identify with Guy Talk, the security guard working the toll booth at the front of the hotel, I'm just mad.

Yeah, same. Do you have the... Okay, I have... He's so incompetent. Yes, I cannot watch a comedy people. Of the problem. This is, I think, we've now drawn... A line in the sand between two types of people.

Weirdly, Michael O'Jr. Jr. is pro-Asian inclusion. And we are firmly against. I would say the line of the same. On one side, we have a true empath in Gojo, which takes us to the beginning when we were talking about why he's the ultimate plus one. I feel bad for people who have things that are done or who are victims or rather or are being hurt in some way in these shows. But someone who keeps hurting themselves is, I have a lot of trouble with.

as a viewer, generally. With my husband clock this, like, one episode in, he's like, you're going to hate this guy, huh? Because I just cannot handle watching people who are incompetent at their jobs over and over and over. To the point where, like, when he actually found the gun in the last episode...

Conveniently, just in the first drawer, he opened. I was truly shocked. That was a bigger upset to me than the incest. This guy actually getting something right for once. But that made me... That made me even matter. It made me even more furious. It's like, wait a minute.

You're going to undo this whole plot line about the missing gun by him randomly opening the first drawer with no detective ability at all? Like, why do we just spend this whole? So the Guy Talk thing, and I do appreciate that this character's name is also the subject of the previous topic on this episode. Yeah. Guy Talk. Guy Talk's whole deal is that he is Bambi. He is prey. He is the guy who is weak in defense list, but also the security guard.

And if that had any corresponding connective tissue to a larger plot, maybe I'll be proven wrong in the finale. But currently, it just feels like a diversion. And it's also insulting because something I have been feeling about this show to win back our demographic. It's set in Thailand. and the engagement with Thailand, not that I want to dive into the culture in an earnest way, I know these are all assholes who are rich and tourists. There are characters here that I believe could have engaged more

with the premise of what it means to be an absurd white Western tourist who is an Aaron Rogers adjacent character. And even like Walton Goggins, who's like the guy who's going to Bangkok and meeting the Sam Rockwell character, who is the closest thing to this thing I'm describing, It just feels like he's not really engaging with the setting. I mean, the one with the teeth is normal and is definitely supposed to be the most likable person. And she is, and she's, the actress is like riveting, and it's super funny and a star.

But it makes no sense why she wants to be with Walton Gagins and they never sell you on it. Not for a single second. He treats her like shit. He treats her like shit. And she's just calls him her soulmate. And it's another reason that the show is driving crazy. here. Does it say something when you said the one with the teeth?

I thought you were talking about the other one with the teeth. And now I'm like, oh, you meant the other one with the teeth? I believe that the woman who dates Greg, the guy with the yacht, also has, also has teeth. I mean, come on. That's like, saying, like, Steph Curry is tall compared to Kevin Durant, like, the British woman's going teeth first in every scene. Different tax bracket. I mean, she's great.

She is really funny and good. But that's the thing. They're all really good actors. They're all really funny. They all have good lines. But it's just the underlying stories are not really there. It feels like a script story problem that they said, hey, we'll, I mean, it's by the way, if you're Mike White and you're like, okay, I made one fantastic season of a show that also enabled me to go on location. And what they do is they rent out the entire location. Yeah. So just as a matter of shooting, I presume. So fun. They're just like, let's be other friends. Let's get our, let's have a summer camp in which we produce a prestige show at the end. What, I got to get a hit out for my brother. Sure, that's worth it.

I'll be that character. To answer your question, Kerry Coon's character is who I am on vacation, where I get just unnecessarily white girl wasted. Yeah. We've seen, we've both experienced hammered Mina, I think. Oh, yeah.

Well, and I am the same way on vacation. Like, it is the chance to pop the tarp off a little bit and have at it. So I can identify with that. I just had this realization when you were talking about Mike White, too. Is he the Mike McCarthy then of show creators? where an immediate success has given way to an offense that basically demands that the players go out there and continue to make incredible plays while not really making a ton for them.

He is absolutely Mike McCarthy because he also gets massages at work. I forgot about that. Oh, man, that's right. Wow, what a deep cut. Yeah. Great pull. It's like you do this for work. I hate massages, by the way.

Hate them. I could not feel more differently. So uncomfortable the whole time. Unshocking revelation from you, but... And then they're always like, what is the equivalent of this where you're like there to get your backwork done or whatever, and then they're like, you're so tense.

And I'm like, you're making me more tense by pointing out how tense I am. I hate that. My last thought about White Lotus is that all I'm from a show is for it to care about its story as much as the subreddit does. Oh, my God. Just match the energy.

If people are going to care about you as if you're writing the goddamn Da Vinci Code, then like just try to meet the standard or signal that you're not. I heard a screech in episode two that paired with the painting and there's a corner of it where you see a monkey pointing a finger

and what if that finger turns out to be the gun? I've heard the monkey has the gun theory as well. Oh. That's my Reddit voice. I don't think I want any show to care as much as the Reddit does. I'd like you to care as much as Twitter does. If you stop there, because the Reddit, you get into, you know,

Hadlasso had a subreddit thread that was just a nightmarish group of people. Every subreddit does turn on the thing it loves. 100%. Podcasting as well. 100%. Do you have a subreddit? I do, but it's sparsely populated, and I have never acknowledged that it exists until now. I have one that's just like...

That's just waiting to look at this photo of your eyeball. Show us the rocks. Meena's showing rods. She's showing rods on the chat. For free? Better rods than cones. At the end of every episode of Pablo Tori finds out a show about finding out stuff, we talk about what we found out.

Mike Oleg Jr., would you like to go first? I found out that we can actually put a price on a name, and for George Foreman's, it was $148 million. I found out that male TikTok sounds like exactly the same nightmarish hellhole that female TikTok is. True quality. Yeah, right. Yeah.

Yeah. I found out that part of me believes that a show with the character named Guy Talk, could have been a guy talk. Could have been a guy talk. Shorter, punchier, didn't need to waste all of our time. Also, that when we think about how you monetize what it means to, like, put your name on something, I do want to pour some out for Natalie. Natalie.

Natalie. Foreman, wherever you are, just know that I, I think you deserve, you deserve your own legacy. What if her nickname is Georgina? Or just straight up George. George. That would be a great bit. This is the Foreman family, an all-formin family episode of The White Lotus. Pablo Tori finds out is produced by Walter Avaroma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lombe, Rob McCray, Rachel Miller Howard, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, Chris Tuminello, and Juliet Warren.

Our studio engineering by RG Systems, our sound designed by NGW post. Our theme song, as always, is by John Bravo. We will talk to you next time.