Pablo Torre Finds Out - Share & Tell (and Teeth) with Mina Kimes, Dan, and Pablo

Episode Date: January 5, 2024

Why is Travis Kelce the most famous player in the NFL? How much should you miss booze during Dry January? Where can you get away from everything? Should you trust anyone with really nice teeth? Plus: dorky cussing, human fists, Big Masseuse, 16-beers-deep Chris Cote, and a casual aside about allegedly murdering your roommate.Further reading:Kicking the Habit (Slate)The People Who Brought You Travis Kelce (The New York Times)They Sold Everything to Go on a 3-Year Cruise. How It All Unraveled. (The New York Times)Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/17UhD1blqNE Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is. Can we talk about grinding? Right after this ad. You're listening to Draft King's Network. Mina has a better camera now, noticing that. Power move. What's the deal?

What did you get? You got like a 4K something? No, she looks, I don't know if this is maternal or what, but she looks radiant. I don't know if you are happier or what is going on, but I'm not even kidding you when I tell you that you look vibrantly alive these days. Just sweatier is actually the answer to that question. Because I got gigantic lights now.

The ESPN finally sent me real light. And when we zoomed in earlier, you could see every gigantic beat of sweat on my face. I look, you giving you brave enough to give the internet your pores. That was deeply funny. That was brave and funny. I'm not nervous about my pores, but my teeth are not great. I don't have great teeth and they're also chipped.

Both the tops and the bottom are chipped because I refuse to wear my mouth guard at night. Why am I telling you this? This, Pablo, you and me should do this. I don't know if we have the camera equipment to do it, but we should, in the name of equality, allow the internet the same inside our mouth vulnerabilities so that they can attack us for our physical frailties because our, I just had a bunch of chicken. So I might have my teeth if we did it. I, uh, that's gross. I don't want to see that actually. But my teeth, I also, so I have a, I have a, I have a mouthguard as well that I was given that I don't wear. Nobody wears them. Because it's incredibly annoying. Exactly. I don't want to sleep in a mouth guard.

No, but I do because it helps with the grinding, right? You're pressurized. You've got a lot of stress. That's why I got them. And so now my jaw doesn't hurt anymore because I do use the mouth guard. It was a pain in the ass to get one, but yes, it absolutely works. Can we talk about grinding? Clip that.

Lots of people have been waiting for you to talk about grinding. I usually, I grind every day. I just grind tape, but I also grind my teeth at night. And I want to say something because it's not like this is new. And yet every adult I know has a grinding problem and needs to wear a mouth guard. Does this not feel like a creation of the dental industry to get us to spend $400 plus dollars on mouth guards? I would say yes, except I had pain in my jaw and I got a mouth guard and I no longer have pain in my jaw. I also grind so furiously that I have chips in my teeth, so I'm probably not the best spokesperson for this.

If you do it on my teeth, my incisors are not sharp. I've grinded them down to a total flatness of it because I too, I believe I would, Dan seems compromised by by big dentist. I'm going to throw that out there. Okay. So you guys, I've been, okay, well, what if I were to tell you, though, that I did not even know until diagnosed by my dentist that I was an anxious person? when I was sleeping because I did not know that my anxiety reached into my sleep. I did not know it.

So dentists are like therapists now. They get to tell us that we're anxious at night. I just feel this feels like a power grab to me. And people had to have been grinding their teeth before. And I guess they're not fine because, you know, previous generations had really bad teeth. So maybe this isn't. Do you guys not believe that the three of us under. in all our self-awareness, what our anxiety might be?

Like, you think you guys are all, I have learned later in life that I did not know I had these anxious spaces brought on to me by the last couple of years of just general turmoil insanity. You guys think you're self-aware about your anxieties, your neuroses? Every time I go to get a massage, which is done for like truly like maintenance reasons for me because I am like my entire body it turns out because these massage therapists have informed me of this turns out my entire body is constantly clenched like I am a fist that is balled up in a way that I only realized when again either the massage therapy industry is scamming me by telling

me I need a lot more work done compromised by big masseuse compromise by big masseuse this guy doing infomercials for I'm I'm a stoner who looks casual and easygoing all the time but I'm wrought with anxiety from my neck to my spine yeah if only it was just that it's everywhere turns out is there a person in our

industry who doesn't grind their teeth who isn't a human fist beyond our industry I just feel like everybody right now has these maybe Stagots doesn't have these problems that he doesn't grind his teeth, he sleeps peacefully. I feel like Chris Cody. Chris Cody feels like a guy whose teeth, his incisors are sharp.

He has not a care in the world when he goes into dreaming. No, he's been, he was in the studio here. He was shaking his head. No, he was pantomiming that he is a grinder as well. I'm a grinder. I've been given one of these mouth guards. I wore it once. Oh, no.

He's not really mouthguard achiever. Not surprising. Here's my question. Not surprising. When you go to the dentist, do you lie when they ask you if you've been wearing it? So I do not lie because it literally like it is like the equivalent of, you know, when on Room Raiders, they would be the blue light and you look at the bed and it was

the second that dentist, and you'd see the stains, the second the dentist opens my mouth, like you could take someone off the street. They could look at my teeth and probably tell you that I'm a grinder. So I can't lie. It's too obvious. But you know. But I don't care. I don't care.

I wear my shame. I'm not going to allow myself to be humiliate or shamed by the dentist because I don't wear it. I will though. I will not. I mean, it's, yes, it's hard to lie about whether my teeth are entirely flat now because I am racked with an unknown anxiety. I cannot articulate when I'm awake. But I do do the thing where like before my dentist appointment, I'm going to brush my teeth more thoroughly. I'm going to floss as if I do this every day.

Cheating. Active cheating. Well, I'm just, I'm just trying to ace. I'm trying to ace the interview. And there's so much blood. Oh my God. It is like a fucking murder scene. Really? Unpleasured. It is a murder scene the morning before a dentist appointment. Holy shit. Did you guys see Dan Campbell's teeth on the broadcast?

No. During the Cowboys. He has to be a grinder. He has to be a grinder. It wasn't the, I'm not teeth shaming, by the way, because like I said, my own teeth are not great. They're just like little yellow chicklets over here. but he it's less of the grind and more of the dip that uh oh are they brown are they brown i was self-conscious okay camera angle go ahead focus on my on my teeth here to make this because i just had i just had coffee as well so i was feeling like my teeth would be extra yellow here i just had coffee

and chicken this is going to be unpleasant here do you guys even have the ability to to zone in here we've got a we've got a media empire here we've got a control we've got multiple control rooms in Miami and New York. Do you guys have the ability to shame me on the tea? I don't, here's a, here's the problem for you, Dan. I don't think they need to zoom in to, I don't think they need to zoom in to shave you. Okay. Very good. So Danny just mentioned that he had drank some coffee and some alongside his chicken, which is admittedly gross. I am also vibrating a little bit. I, I have become a person who drinks coffee, or at the very least, this is not an ad, but in the Metal Arc, New York office, there's a thing called Root Brew.

I don't get paid to advertise this, perhaps because I will point out that it is something that makes me feel like I am on the strongest drug I've ever had. I wasn't a person. Okay, there are 45 grams of sugar. Jesus Christ. That's not healthy. That is not in any way healthy. If you're not good, you're drinking that much. This is a problem.

You are not thinking about what you're consuming and it's got tons of sugar as we talk about teeth and not brushing your teeth. enough. Not ideal. Not ideal. But I was thinking about this as I was, again, sort of just like vibrating intensely in my chair because I was reading a story on slate.com about, and this is a thing that lots of people are doing in January. They're giving stuff up. Dry January is a thing. And so this was a column by somebody who was both contemplating seriously. The experiment of switching to decaf, because caffeine, of course, is a drug. scientifically speaking, and also getting rid of alcohol. And I should also note that the author of this story is Amanda Knox.

So there's a lot going on here. Amanda Knox, who revealed and reminded me that it was her byline by pointing out very casually that five weeks into my study abroad program, I was wrongly accused of murdering my roommate, Meredith Kircher. And so she had to say goodbye to wine because she got arrested. So anyway, she's not guilty. She's now a free person in a relationship. That, by the way, is just a sentence in the middle of this article about giving up caffeine and alcohol.

Yes, I was five weeks into my study abroad program. I was wrongly accused of murdering my roommate. That's something that's like, it's about 30 or 40 sentences in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanted to do this before I knew it was Amanda Knox. And then I was like, oh, we're going to get Amanda Knox's reflections upon. on pregnancy and what she had to give up because in pregnancy, of course, you give up all sorts of things. But, Mina, alcohol, of course, is foremost among the list of things they tell you to give up.

Which is its whole other thing. And there's a lot of debate over what you have to give up and the wisdom and the science around it. And boy, if you want to make people on the internet mad at you, talk about that. Yep. That actually, I would say, like, even more than, I don't know, whatever the thing that makes people that we're on Rogers right now, the thing that makes people the most mad, talking about the regulations

or lack thereof or the standards around pregnancy, that is the most, I think, that's the third rail, the 30est of third rails. I just say that. Even to the point where like, I guess this is relevant,

you know, me, when I was pregnant, in conversations I'd have with friends, I was shocked by the, the difference of opinions, the way people approach this, the nervousness about it. If you go to, if you're a pregnant person and you're out to eat with friends, the tension at the table when it's time to order, the tension, if you do order a glass of wine. The judgment. The silence judgment.

Or the people saying, we're not judging you. We're not judging you. I've also read the books by Emily Oster. It's fine. Anyways, that is a whole other thing. Amanda Knox did too. She interviewed Emily Oster. She cites this in the column.

Hold on. But you guys are saying. forgive me because I don't know exactly what this 30th of third rails is. Mina, are you suggesting that everyone at the table has very strong opinions about what a mother is supposed to consume to accurately take care of a fetus? Yeah, so just I'll give the TLDR version, and I'm sure Pablo knows this very well from his own wife going through pregnancy. For a long time, it was believed the CDC and all the NIH. NIH, yeah, would come out and say you can't drink when you're pregnant. And there's a complicated history around that tied up with the government trying to

disentitivize everybody from drinking, women from drinking generally. But around, I would say, 2010 or so, the woman I mentioned, Emily Oster and some other writers started looking into the research and saying, actually it's not quite that conclusive. A lot of these studies are not actually comprehensive because you don't do studies on, and the same as for weed as well, on like pregnant women who do consume a lot of cases. Now, and we know binge drinking is bad.

Everybody agrees that. But there's a lot of debate over, can you have like a glass of wine a week? Right. As they do in Europe, right? I mean, that's part of the thing too, is like in Europe, they drink a glass of wine. Pregnant mothers do.

By the way, you're not supposed to eat. raw fish. And yet, it seems in Japan, not the same level of concern. So everyone's sort of like running different forms of an inconsistent experiment. Exactly. And a lot of the studies that have been leaned on were not well done because of confounding factors. I am not here to give you, to incite debate about this. In fact, I'll speak to my own stance. I really mostly avoided drinking while I was pregnant. And, and I think this is probably more relatable for you. you guys are a good jumping off point. It was really hard. I was shocked by how much I missed alcohol during my pregnancy. And I was shocked that I was shy. It just wasn't something I anticipated.

I never thought of myself as somebody who was dependent on it. I was a social drinker since I was, you know, like 16 or whatnot, more than social drinker in college and in my early 20s. But I found myself craving it in a way that I didn't expect. I don't know if either of you have gone periods without drinking or experienced that, but it was genuinely surprising to me how much I knew. Is it a case of thinking that alcoholism is a dependency that looks a certain way versus something that could be by degrees where you're dependent on something and don't even know it? And the reason I ask the question is because I imagine, like a lot of people during the pandemic,

I found myself, tequila is the only one that matches with my blood kept. where I'm not going to get too drunk. I'm not going to get too sick, but I can have a numbing involved with what my last two years have been that a little bit of tequila just mindlessly can feel soothing, can feel deadening, right? Because especially since I've been in pain for the last two years, like emotional pain, deathbed studying stuff, you can have a drink without thinking of it and isn't dependency by degrees where you wouldn't necessarily be self-aware that you were drinking too much or that. that you were even developing a dependency. Yeah. Look, the degree to which these things, which are classified as vices, and we can bring caffeine into this too, but our utilities, right? Like, of course, so the caveats apply here, right? Like moderation in all things.

This is a general rule that I think is a useful, just sort of disclaimer. But when it comes to like why we do these things, what it does for us, I don't know if Mina's sort of biological response or psychological response. I shouldn't presume what kind of response it was to not drinking what she was missing. But I can speak to like caffeine, which gets lumped into this, of course, because NIH, again, I will cite them, as many mothers do. Caffeine is the most widely taken psychoactive stimulant globally. Right. And the reason why it is classified or it's felt differently is because it has a respectable purpose.

I get to be better at work because of this. I am now alert and awake and I'm talking to you guys and I'm tracking a drug with better marketing is what you're saying. A drug. Big coffee. It's instead of nicotine or alcohol that have stigmas, caffeine comes with no stigmas, but is a dependency or can be a dependency drug. Can be. But as in all of these conversations, right, there is a controversy over how dependent, how addictive the research. Well, you'll get headaches, right?

If you stop drinking coffee, if people who drink coffee every day stop. Stop drinking coffee for a day or a week. They will get headaches. I get headaches, yeah, if I don't drink it. I mean, probably you're right. The dependency is there and we do paper over it or don't. It's not stigmatized because of the positive effects, but also because the lack of negative effects. You don't, you know, drink a bunch of caffeine and then hit someone in your car.

Like, you know, obviously it's not dangerous in the same way. Provided that you consume it the way that most people do. like people aren't doing coffee. They're not doing curing keg stands at college parties, right? Like they're not like overdoing caffeine on purpose. Oh, but wait a minute. I would say four, six, eight, ten cups of coffee. I would say 45 grams of sugar if you're drinking it mindlessly.

Like I'm not like, yeah, one or two cups is one thing. But what if you're somebody who's mindlessly drinking nine cups of coffee a day? So, so to bring it back to the story, Amanda Knox was informed. by her doctor, she drank some radioactive fluid, is how she described it. They x-rayed her stomach. They asked her how many shots of espresso are you drinking a day? She said, I don't know, eight, maybe 10.

And that's too much. That's a lot. That's a lot, right? And so the PED, I guess we're talking about, like, the performance enhancement of these drugs. Yeah, like, I have not always been a coffee drinker. I'm somebody who always prided himself actually on, not needing it, being alert and energized and passionate and specific about my memory without this.

But then having a kid, having my sleeping habits change, I'm now an early morning person, which is a shock to anybody who knows me as the guy who shows up late to everything. I'm awake earlier than I have ever been. And I have relied on it as, I don't mean to stigmatize, but as a crutch because now I feel like I need it more. And certainly now, in dry January, as a premise, the point is that you can be, reminded that actually maybe you don't need it as much as you thought you did. Although in Mina's case, I think there is also a buyer beware aspect. I should point out too, as a side note, Dan. I was one, I like to consider myself in that first wave, maybe of people who was

aware that Mina, in fact, was carrying a child. But I had, I had a source reach out to me. Pablo Tori finds out I had a source reach out to me saying simply Mina didn't have a drink at dinner something Yeah it was Mike Ryan I've never seen someone more eager

to be the first to know something Pablo came over to my house When I was hiding my pregnancy Or I was not ready to reveal it to the world He's nosy, he's a busy body It's a private thing I'm a journalist It's a gossip

No no no no no no This is not about him being nosy It's about how he loves being the first on something or just being he came to my house because we went to

this event together it was the gold house gala and I swear to God he looked like the veins were about to pop out of his head he was just sitting there

staring at me so eager for me to just reveal it to him and finally I gave in I just told him because I could tell it was literally

he's the worst I thought I was pretty silly I thought I was pretty slick. It's funny because we were wearing a gown, I mean, she was wearing a black tie like tuxedo. It was an event for the top 100 Asian America. Oh, for the love of God.

How many? What are we doing? I'm just saying you're surrounded by high-end Asians, Dan. Sorry, like, this is the company you've known. He just loves knowing stuff. I do. And I saw it immediately. I guess that's the entire premise of this podcast.

I drink. coffee because I depended on it. It actually helps me get up because I'm like, it's something I look forward to. I drink alcohol because I like the flavor, but also to Dan's question, for me, it takes the edge off. I think one thing that really struck me during my time drinking, not drinking, was it overlapped with the Super Bowl and the combine, some big events. And oh my God, parties suck when you don't drink. If like me, you're a, uh, some who is who needs, apparently, in a way that I'm not proud of this. Oh, but socially, no, it probably helps you with whatever the awkwardness is in just sort of socially interacting with people, right? Like there's got to be, there's got to, Mina, there has to be all sorts of weird energy as you enter fame and people with an understanding now of who you are, who have a whole list of things they think they know about you in a social setting and you're meeting them for the first time. Like, that's got to be a

social awkwardness beyond even the normal stuff of just meeting new people. I mean, it was the same way when I was in college. So I'm not going to act like I need the edge now because of my D-list celebrity. No, I have found that in large social gatherings and tell me if you guys feel the same way, that sort of blunted, slightly fuzzy feeling you get from having a couple of drinks, makes them more enjoyable. I don't need it to have one-on-one interactions or group dinners or work or do any of the other things.

But for some reason, that particular environment to me is much more palatable with a beverage in hand. Yeah, I mean, I feel like it connects a bit to just the idea of can we stop grinding our teeth so much? Can we release and relax just a bit? Of course, my approach this entire time has been to quietly be just a little bit stoned while everyone else is drunk.

And I find that that works pretty well until someone notices and then you're like super paranoid and then it becomes untenable for everybody. The part with me though and the pandemic and I don't know if this is what would happen to you stone to Pablo,

but when I'm talking about the numbing effect of you know, a couple of shots of tequila every couple of days, the dulling of thoughts, the stopping of the mind the, I don't know how consumed you guys are by these anxieties.

I don't know, Mina, I don't know if people look at Pablo and see someone who is anxious. I think, I think they'd be surprised that he is that anxious. And I would think he's that anxious because his mind controls everything that he's doing all the time. He thinks it's a blessing and it's actually very often a poison. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, do you think the fact that we use these substances really reflects that we have an unusual amount of anxiety. I mean, what we're talking about is...

Well, that's the pretty standard. I think that's... So the reason I am happy and a little alarmed at the same time about knowing how many teeth grinders I'm surrounded by is because I believe that our problems... I think Dan's had a really shi two years. Okay? I'd be like, Dan, if you told me,

I need to cope with this by doing these extreme things, my God, man, like, but for me, I can sit, I'll speak for myself exclusively. I feel like the quotidian aspect of my anxieties resulting in this thing that I see everybody else doing. It is both a unifying thing about, I guess, what it means to be a person. And it also makes me think that all of us just need more help than we're willing to realize when we're awake. And that part, I'm like, wow. And when we're sleeping. And when we're sleeping. And, and maybe most Most of all when I am shaving my teeth down to nubs. With your anxieties.

Yeah. All right. So the article that I am bringing to the table is called The People Who Brought You Travis Kelsey ran the New York Times. It's by Zach Schoenbrum. It's a profile of the twin brothers that Kelsey has known since he was at the University of Cincinnati named Andre and Aaron Eans, I imagine, EANES. and basically how they've been working with him over the last, well, since then, but especially the last two years, to make him really famous.

Kelsey is arguably at this point the most famous NFL player. Is that crazy to say? I think that's right. I think that's objectively metrically correct. They take pains to note that they did not plan his relationship with Taylor Swift, which to quote a popular TikTok. meme really put him on the map. But the article's interesting. It gets into sort of how Kelsey's aspirations and their own have contrived to kind of mainstream

him beyond football. And I think this is interesting, too, because football players, we think in them as being really famous because of what we do for a living. But most of them are not recognizable on the street. They're in helmets, right? But Kelsey is a wet person whose face I think America really knows now.

They know him from obviously his success on the field. They know him from the relationship with Swift. They know him from the fact that he's in every commercial known to man, that he hosted SNL. And I think it's actually pretty unique. There aren't really many examples like this in recent NFL history. I think it runs, and they address this in the story, the risk of overexposure. I'd be curious to see how he, what his Q rating is right now relative to other points in his career.

But undeniably, it's worked, Pablo. And, you know, they are in this article taking credit for it. Yeah, no, it's staggering. And there's a lot here that I want to actually talk to Dan about, too, because part of the reference point here are a couple of people that I think Dan has gotten to know unusually well relative to us, at least. because at one point in a trip to L.A. in this story in 2022, the two brothers, his managers, and Travis Kelsey, drive by this massive billboard of Dwayne the Rock Johnson. And Kelsey goes,

apparently, man, I don't think I'll ever be as famous as the Rock. And the twins apparently look at each other and they say in 2022, again, yes, you can. And so there is a bit of a, I would have called that delusion if you had asked me in 2022 about that possibility for the reasons Mina was alluding to. But I also think that part of the delusion of being the manager of an athlete now, somebody who knew him before he was big, before anybody else saw him as a stock to own, it reminds me of like how it is that Maverick Carter and Rich Paul got with LeBron James, Dan, like these guys who are friends and not experts who believe in the subject and the protagonist that is going to become the center, the gravitational center of their lives, those guys were

first to market with him. And it's really hard to tell. My cynicism is it's hard to tell how much they are the causal reason why he is this way, because they're not saying that they orchestrated Taylor Swift. It's the opposite. And so are they along for the ride? What are we giving them credit for in terms of being people who are now at the center of the biggest name in the NFL? The article was interesting for a lot of reasons to me. Four agents is a lot by any players standard, adding creative artist agency on top of your agents that is aggressive. You don't really need to be giving up these percentages of your money unless you're being management aggressive of I'm going to be ambitious with my career post football at the end of

football. Travis Kelsey went to Stugats a long time ago trying to figure out the podcast game before. Which is fucking insane that this is real. I've heard about this is real. Yes, this is real, but I would take you back because you meant to. I mentioned Dwayne Johnson. I went to college with Dwayne Johnson. Dwayne Johnson was not a great football player or not compared to the people who were ahead of him at defensive tackle. But he had learned from wrestling that around sports, you can have charisma and work ethic and turn it into something. And Travis Kelsey, with the help of these people, has figured out a way to get into the space in football where they've got a hugely popular sport, but the only guys who get the marketing are the old white quarterback. So what can we do? about that? Well, we can be aggressive about taking a tight end and making sure that we manage around his charisma because he wants to be famous outside of football. He tried a dating show and they hated it in the Kansas City organization. He was doing reality television. And so they just did it better and smarter. They took a guy who's got great talent, a champion and charisma, and they found the ingredients. You can say that this was orchestrated. It was by design. It was strategic. It was smart. They got Travis Kelsey, what agents are paid to get. get them, the things they want. I think you're absolutely right, although he has, you talked about his charisma.

I think there's kind of two things here that are unique. One is, he's one of the greatest step or play at the position. I do question, I wonder, would any of this be happening if not for the fact that they're working from the baseline, that his football credentials are unquestioned, right, at this point? And that'll be interesting, by the way, next year, if he continues down this. path as his play and it will decline and you're seeing a little bit of that now but if it if it does really start to decline okay at what point you know does one thing affect the other or not right now

oh but mina but forgive me though but like Antonio gates was that there are any number Tony Gonzalez hell uh Shannon sharp was that a tight end who is undeniably unquestionably unquestionably game changing great and none of them get to be this. Like nobody nobody's ever parlayed charisma and tight end play into this. Well, I think this is also, and this is I was going to say,

also a function of the times. Like we are living at a moment where influencers are just as famous as actors amongst certain age groups and whatnot. Travis Kelsey, you could say he is kind of an influencer, right? Like he's

yeah, absolutely. He's not in movies. He hosts a Descenael. Yeah. and he's on commercials, but he does a podcast. It's really, really popular. It's one of the most... Just to clarify,

like, among the many things that Travis Kelsey's empire consists of is his podcast with his brother Jason, who's a hall of fame himself. And it's one of those

popular podcasts in general. And so again, the idea that Stucats was like, Travis Kelsey wants me to help figure out like the most popular podcast that would turn out in America is hilarious,

but also a symptom of what I think we're circling, which is, a fame that is very much of its time. Like, I don't know if dating Taylor Swift in the pre-Internet era would have all of this residual benefit. I am served by TikTok constantly videos about their relationship. I realize that's a Jason Whitlocky in addition because it means I am also looking at those videos.

I get that. I am, I, they serve it to me. I eat it. Appropriate? Question mark. you're going to get targeted ads for tight ends. That's what you're going to get. But by the way, you know, we are living also in a post-Gronk world.

Like, I think it's funny to imagine Rob Grankowski in this. Rob Grankowski. I mean, well, me, I'm curious where you put him in this taxonomy of like, of celebrity, of tight end, white guy, NFL helmet on celebrity, because he seemed to have been the peak of it. And now he's been trumped very obviously. Yeah, I think that's where Dan, it kind of gets interesting because everything you're saying about, you know, he's just sort of like this.

neutral, pleasant, affable white guy who's a really, really good position. They would seem to both fall into those categories. I think, though, there are a couple meaningful differences. One is the time that we're in. Two, like, I don't think gronk is as charismatic as Travis Kelsey. And I think, like, a gronk podcast would not hit the same, frankly. I mean, come on, guys, come on. I've watched many interviews with gronk. I've seen him on television. Travis Kelsey is better than him at those things. I think we don't have to diminish Granc too much to point out the obvious. It is obvious. Kelsey came on NFL Live at the draft two years ago. He was

fantastic. He was, and this probably also, by the way, cuts into a little bit of what we're talking about. He was really nice to everyone. Yeah, people like him. No, I mean, there's He's really likable. So in terms of connecting him to the rock and what makes him. So again, that's sort of the goal here, right? Like, can he be as big as the rock? That was a prophecy. I mean, he is charismatic. Could he act? I can, I can believe. leave it. At the very

least, I don't know, Dan, if you saw in Dwayne Johnson, oh, this guy is a future blockbuster movie star. No, but in Travis Kelsey, I'm impressed. You could not have seen that from college. But descending from professional wrestling and seeing the value of being able to Connor McGregor your

way to infamy and fame and just talking your way into the game. You guys are right that I underestimate. If I dismiss him as a fool, I underestimate the power of Gronk's likeability. not everyone can pull that off. There is value to that.

The marketing and myth-making machine can work with that. There was a moment this year that I think is worth highlighting with Travis Kelsey as we talk about, why is he famous? What is it about him? What is it about this moment? How much of his planned, whatnot? Is there anything intrinsic to him or does he have any qualities that have made him uniquely suited for this? It was when Aaron Rogers took a shot at him on McAfee. And what did he call him?

Mr. Pfizer. Mr. Pfizer. You know, Mr. Pfizer, we kind of shut him down a little bit and have, you know, his like crazy impact game. I thought Kelsey's response to that was about as well as I've ever seen an athlete handle any drama or whatnot. Once I got the vaccine, I got it because of, you know, keeping myself safe, keeping my family safe, the people in this building. So, yeah, I stand by 1,000 percent.

fully comfortable with him calling me, Mr. Frieser. I remember watching that, watching the video, it was an oppressor thinking, oh, wow, this guy's got it. But it's not as good as Granc, though. Grank's got it figured out. Just do it this way. They got that sexy body. That's all you got to do. That's all you got to do.

Rob Grankowski, former fan of the Clevelander Hotel. So I read this article in the New York Times. The headline is, and this will get people to read, they sold everything to go on a three-year cruise, how it all unraveled. Excellent headline writing by the New York Times. And then I start to read the story because I can imagine in the dystopian last three years that there are a lot of people who have had thoughts about how do I get away from everything? How do I remove myself from the dark realities that surround us and create all this anxiety? So I've seen nine-month cruises and now I see the three-year cruise. And before I get started, because I don't know how Mina feels about cruises or Pablo,

but neither one of you strike me as cruise people. The Codies, though, are our resident cruise line experts. They love a buffet. Never been, never been on a cruise. They love, I should say that. Okay, well, I consider both of you, hygienic people who don't want to be on a floating disease. Do you hear us talking about our teeth earlier and now we don't. A floating disease vessel covered with a.

food at midnight and unlimited drink packages that have Greg Cody careening into you on day two, because he's had 16 beers. But Chris Cody is a cruise a cruiseficionado. And what is Mina, your cruise history? Because my brother, keep in mind, my brother was always

going on cruises. My brother traveled the world, saw the world, sold art on cruise ships, very difficult profession, saw the world and thought it was the greatest. Like, yeah, massages. I mean, all the time things are taking care of. It's a floating hotel. I don't have to take my bags out.

It seems like very comfortable, easy way to see the world. That's the argument I would make on its behalf. Chris Cody, can you do better than that? I mean, the cruise is the perfect place. I mean, the way I would sell it is by asking you, Mina, when you go on a vacation, just start listing some things you're looking for. What are you trying to get out of a vacation? The freedom to move around as I please in a country and not be restricted to a boat.

Well, luckily for you, we have six stops on this cruise. So in the span of a week, you will see countless places spending many hours in each place. Not that many hours. Maybe seven hours. You got to be back on board by 5 p.m. You have to hurry back and they'll leave without you if you don't get back. But you get about seven hours of a place. But what else could you be looking for?

A little relaxation. Well, I could find you on deck six in the spa. And if not, maybe after that, we head up to deck nine for a nice relaxing afternoon at the pool. Oh, you're hungry, Mina? What's that? You're in the mood for a nice meal? Well, on deck five, we have fine dining. But if you're ready to gorge like the Cody's do,

head up to deck 11, the windjammer, my God, you'll eat like a queen. Bar food. The windjammer feels like the consequence of Chris Cody eating the meal he just described. You want to have some fun? You want to get out and dance a little bit, let loose? Well, there's a dance club on deck eight. This is all an elevator away, Mina. This is all, in New York, you need to get in 70 Ubers, a million, you know, cabs and trains and taking this train.

No, no, no. Hop in the elevator. Hey, and guess what? In this elevator, it tells you what day it is. It's a new world. You look down at the floor. Oh, it's Tuesday. Tomorrow, it'll say Wednesday on here. It's a beautiful place, Mina. It's so dystopian what you're describing. Oh, what's that meaning? You want to gamble a little bit? You feel a little wild.

Zero interesting gambling. Want to hit the blackjack table? Well, deck four, it's waiting for you. And I got the best part I haven't even said it yet. You said you like alcohol? There's a bar on every floor. Mina, it's a perfect place. It's heaven. And it's not sad at all. Now, the bathroom is sad. Your state room bathroom? All of the bathrooms are airplane bathrooms, all of them. I've been on one cruise.

My family took my husband and I, my brother, and his wife on a cruise to Iceland and Greenland, which was really cool. But it was a little bit unique. It was like a national geographic cruise. Were you going for the Northern Lights? Were you trying to do some Aurora Borealis? North Lights. Greenland was like Mars. It was interesting.

I want to do that. Really interesting. So I think this was a bit of a unique cruise. also it was also like a bunch of like old professors. So like the clientele was a little bit different. A bunch of non-grogs. Yeah. I will say though, like, you know, um, okay. So here's my stance, Stan, Stan.

Old Mina, this is the worst. I hate, I didn't like the cruise or the concept of Cruz for the same reason that I don't like Vegas. I hate having my food, my enjoyment chewed up for me and then spat into my mouth. I like to make my. own choices. I like to have freedom of movement. I like to pick out restaurants on my own. I don't want everything planned for me in the way that a cruise does for its patrons. I also get a little seasick. I'll throw that out there too. But you get to pick, Mina. You get to pick when you go to

decade. Between like six. You get to choose it. Okay. Chris, I said, however. Are you in the mood for bingo? There's a get we got that on. However. There's a roller coaster in a game room around here somewhere. However. Really feeling frisky. And I'll quote Chris on this. I have a child. And now the idea of being able to voice that child upon people and have everything all set up for the presence of the child and everything made it easy for me, especially as he gets older,

has appeal now in a way that it did not before. It's like how everything is easy for you. Everything is laid out for you. I used to know, I'm like, I don't want to be challenged on vacation. I want my entertainment chewed up and spat into my mouth. I want my child taking care of. I want options for him so that I don't have to think of them. I don't want to think.

I don't use my brain anymore. My brain is compromised in a way that it wasn't before. So put me on a cruise as long as there's like a kid's place and I will happily spend my vacation. Unlimited soft serve ice cream. I'll take it. Now I should point out that this particular story while we got derailed by just our love or lack of love for cruise ships, This particular story is selling your home, uprooting yourself, and getting involved in a scam that not surprisingly has a lot of tentacles in Miami with the idea that it's almost impossible to get a ship to function as a three-year economy, but you have to pay for it on the front end. And some people sold their home and now can't get out of this situation because they've been defrauded because they can't actually pull together a three-year economy.

three-year cruise, even a nine-month cruise, which is being done by someone here locally. I don't know whether it's Royal Caribbean or Norwegian, but a nine-month cruise is pretty hard. And all of this, by the way, as the cruise industry takes an unholy beating during the pandemic because one of the risks involved is if you go out to sea, you might stay there if a country has another virus problem and be out there for three years, whether you want to be or not, because you can't get back to American citizenship at a turbulent time. So your thoughts there on the craziness of selling your home in the dream of, well, I'll just float around for three years. Well, it's part of the, I think, a human instinct is to want to see the world, right?

Like it goes back centuries, like the grand tour. You would go to another continent. You would see as much as you could because what it means to be human is to explore the planet that we have dominion over. And so this premise, and I'm reading this article about the three-year – it was supposed to be a three-hour two. Sure. The three-year cruise is sad because there are these people who, many of whom, had never been on a cruise before, but they were sold the dream by a Chris Cody-like Firefest adjacent salesperson, allegedly, who was like, we're going to give you all of this stuff. Expand your life. Expand your life.

You can work remotely. There will be Starlink. You can see countries. We'll take care of everything for you, except it turns out that such a premise of a three-year cruise is like a sci-fi movie that, of course, goes bad. And luckily for them, maybe went bad before they ever departed. But you see in the nine-month cruise, which is a thing that's happening simultaneously, perhaps because of the economic pressures, Dan is pointing out, that they got to sort of reconfigure how do we sell cruises to people. What they're doing or finding is that all of the people on the nine-month cruise have become. come essentially TikTok reality television stars. And so there's this headline in the Washington Post about how this is the number one reality show

is all of these people who are, I guess, organically in scare quotes, realizing that they can post updates on their own, like because of course, on cruises apparently, I've never been on one, the ecosystem of characters, of egos, of like, oh, the old people, the young people, the people who want to fuck,

the people who are hoping to find love, whatever. All of that shit's happening in a nine-month cruise. said that. I was made uncomfortable by how it is. None of us needed that. The voice, like the deepening of the voice. You pelvic thrust it. It was uncomfortable. What are you doing? I had Rob Grankowski.

What do you do? You were. Did it again. No one wanted you to do it again. You didn't have to do it again. It sounded like you were going for something monster trucky. Like what do you just have, like, what do you do? Do you think he says that in his regular life? Like when he's talking to people? Why would he do that? Like when he's like talking to like one of his. He's like, did you, did you? Yeah. Are you doing?

Is that what you're doing? Is that you? Am I really getting no backup from Chris Cody here? When you're talking to Wyatt Senat and Ezra Edelman, are you like, yeah, did you get some last night? Did you fuck? Like, what are you doing? I invited Chris Cody to participate on this program and the one time I need him as backup. He's completely silent on whether anyone plausibly.

He was the one who incited me. He was always producing. He's like, he's. said while you were talking he said to me why did he say it like that and then i wondered why did why did he say it like i was going to let it slide i was it's the root brew okay i'm hopped up on root brew what do we learn what do we find out today i'm pablo tori finds out dan i um i need to get rid of some of the coffee i'm drinking during our show i think um because i'm drinking i i'm drinking too much coffee and it might be affecting

my sleep and I wasn't even thinking about it. It's not because I have a couple of cups of coffee while we're doing the three hours of nonsense that we do a day, I'm probably drinking too much coffee because it's not just coffee it's that Cuban coffee and I'm thinking now I'm over-stimulated. It might also be why I'm rambling on the show.

Flaming the capacito. It's not cafe sito. It's like a lot. It's what is that? It's very strong. It's just what I'm... Is that? Is that like the evolved Pokemon version of Capacito? It evolves. It's on steroids. It's, yeah, I need to drink less.

It's horrified. But it's good. Thank you for the mirror. I appreciate it. You're welcome. I learned that besides the fact that Pablo gives a fuck about everything. Bone? Try bone.

I feel like you might be able to pull off bone. Oh, yeah. People want a bone all the time. I can do that one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, see, that sounded right. Um, Charles Kelsey might be able to run for president.

Alarming but true based on the conversation we had. I mean, first he'd get elected just because of his first lady. What a great romance story that would end up being. I didn't even contemplate that. I'm going to go home and practice saying the F word into the mirror. That's where, that's really what I found out.

Do you think he can ever sound cool doing it, mean it? I can say it not in the context of actually, I was going to say fornicate. I need to leave. You're a dorky cusser is what you are. I've thought this for a while.

I'm not a dorky cusser. You are a dorky cusser. I, I, it's, it's, it doesn't fit. It doesn't fit. Put it on the pole. It doesn't fit. Put it on the pole. Is Pablo a dorky cusser?

Is he believable when he cusses? No, it's not. Go f*** yourselves. Believe that. There you go. Believe that. But I should probably also thank the people who helped me grind my team. less than I used to. Because Pablo Dore finds out is produced by Michael Antonucci, Ryan Cortez,

Sam Daywig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lohman, Rachel Miller-Howard, Ethan Shrier, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Chris Tuminello, and Juliet Warren. With Studio Engineering by RG Systems, Post, Post Post, our theme song by John Bravo. It's been good to be back with you in the new year, so, yeah, I'll see you next week.