Pablo Torre Finds Out - Share & Tell with Katie Nolan & Dwayne Johnson's Friend Ariel Helwani

Episode Date: October 20, 2023

Why did Ariel Helwani, our planet’s leading combat sports reporter, use ring girls as human shields at a televised Logan Paul melee? What video game is Katie Nolan mostly living inside? Do you remember the time The Rock actually broke the news that Osama bin Laden had been assassinated? And more.PTFO-approved content:https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/shams-charania-nba-insider-the-athletic-new-york-times-profile.htmlhttps://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2023/10/16/were-more-ghosts-than-people/https://arielhelwani.substack.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're going to find out what this sound is. I don't know what feathering your boost button means. I just know that someone out there heard Katie Nolan say that. And liked it. And liked it way too much. A little too much.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And shout out to that lady. Right after this ad. You're listening to Draft King's Network. This is where I want to start because Ariel Helwani, who is, is playing sick, playing hurt, and we thank him for doing this. It's not in person with me and you, Katie. Yeah.

There's no chance that's real. What's, what's, I feel bad that you feel bad physically. Sorry about it. I feel good that we can now interrogate him about the real thing I want to find out today, which is what the fuck. That's a green screen, right? That's, that's, that's, I mean, green screen. That's fake as hell.

It's too many books, and they're too small. They'd have to be very far behind you. Does this look like a green screen? Yes. Yes, it does. What's that little, what's that little light flare off your left shoulder? No. It's just because I have...

Is there one that you want me to pull out? I'll be happy to pull it out. Yes. Yeah, get the dialogues of Plato. I see it over there hiding in the corner. Okay, just one second. Oh, shoot, it's real. I'm convinced.

Oh, my God, that's an actual book. Wow, look at all those books. It's a very smart person book, too. And you've read all of them, I assume. This might be the best thing that I got from working at ESPN. It's just, it's a TV. Sick. It's not a green screen.

Wait, but this is the question I have. That's so great. the question I have. Oh, this thing killed me right here. Yeah, I told you. I saw those. There's a reflection. If you're not watching on the Draftings Network or YouTube, there's a clear reflection from Ariel's window, beautiful window, the sunlight of New Jersey streaming in. But those books,

like, whose books are those? Yeah, where'd you get that picture? How did you pick those books? What's the, what's the backstory on the bookshel? This is a great question. A question that no one's asked me. Actually, one time I was on SportsCenter towards the end of my time there, and the freaking screensaver went on. No cap, Jay, as the kids like to say. No cap right here. co-main event. I'm more excited about the co-main event. As my screen goes out behind me,

my entire life has just been exposed as a complete fraud, Jake. Can you believe this? That was very... Oh, that's very funny. Very embarrassing. Very funny. Flying toasters. I like being in like a warm library. I was looking for something homey. I looked at like pictures of libraries and whatnot. Now this is a library. That's the thing that I can't even believe anyone would think this would be in my house. Like, look how many books this is. I know, but there's no, um, there's no like Dewey Descentia. system. I don't see any numbers or tape on the... If you look very closely, there's a lot here.

Oh, okay. And so I just found the right picture that matches, I think, my skin tone, my hair, my eyes, everything. It really does. It just kind of fits. It feels like it's my little universe. I don't really appreciate you guys breaking K-Fabe, as we say in the wrestling business. We could have just ignored all of this. Sure. Maybe you have to, maybe you should frame out the bottom of the TV there. So we could not. It wouldn't be obvious.

I'm a little bit off my game. How's that? Is that better? You have it so that it has to be perfectly set or it's... I just like how the guy who's the best foremost MMA expert in the world is like, you know what? My audience needs to know that I love books. I read. Yeah.

I read quite a bit. So I bring on Ariel Helwani for many reasons. He is the foremost authority on MMA and all sorts of things that I don't understand. Also because I've been obsessed, what I bring to the table today in this episode of Share and Tell, is this video that I watched from my couch of Ariel. a stage in between Logan Paul and Dylan Dennis. And I want to get to the genre of what they engage in these days because that's a bigger picture topic.

But the micro of this is just this press conference that devolved very rapidly and which Ariel was ahead of seemingly before anybody else if we can watch that clip. So this is Logan Paul like underhand chucking a bottle of something at Dylan Danes's... Prime, I assume. I assume it's prime. And Katie, where would you say that that struck Dylan Danis? In the penis. Hit him in the penis.

Right in the penis. That's what it looked like. It was below the belt. Yeah. And then Dylan Dennis, Ariel, how would you describe what you saw? Because he takes his microphone and then does what? Yeah, well, I didn't see all of that because as you can see in the clip, I got the hell out of there. And a lot of people were making fun of me.

I'm like, yo, you think I want to get, like, if there's another angle. If I would have stayed exactly where I was originally, I would have been pelted in the head with a water bottle. So I'm totally okay with being the scarity cat who goes off. I actually thought I was very comcool collected about it. I just like said, you know what? I'm out of here. Walked there to the left.

I do think you did a little bit of hand stuff that made you look at not cool comic collect. You did do a little bit of like a... It's very unfair. It's very unfair. If you roll the tape back, I'm fixing my IFB. Look, I'm fixing my IB and then he hits me. But this. That's why I did that.

Had I not been fixing my IEP in that moment, I would have never done that. I would have been unflappable in that moment. You were here and then you went to here. I feel like... Yeah, I was here and then I went to here. And that's called good defense. That's Philly Shell right there.

That's the defense. Ariel is shoulder rolling as soon as that water bottle flew across the stage. Thank you for that problem. That said, the other verb I'd use is a scamper. There was a scampering. A scurrying. It felt like Ariel, you've done this before, though.

The face off. the press conference before a fight and you had veteran savvy about where you wanted to not be, I guess. Yeah. I want nothing. I'm not fighting. I'm not courageous like them. I want nothing to do with any of that.

And these two guys have had their moments in August. They had a press conference and cake was being thrown and water bottles were being thrown back there too. I want nothing to do with any of this. I just want to go there, do my job, come home to my family. There's no, there's no, like, there's no part of me that wants to be a hero and say, I took a water bottle to the face. So people were making fun of me for getting out of the way.

I wish I got out of the way quicker. I went to hide behind the ring girls. So that's how I wanted nothing. I was like, there's no way they're going to throw anything at them. So let me just hide behind. I have no problem being a total coward. Amazing.

Human shields. Yep, you're that guy in the movie that takes the woman and it's like, no, no, take her, not me. Yeah, yeah. Like George Costanza, when there's a fire in the apartment and he's like shoving old ladies.

That was me. And I am totally okay with that. But to answer your question, though, Pablo, he took a microphone and he nailed Logan in the head with it, Dylan did, and then he cut him open. And it was very unfortunate because, you know, there's an actual fight that needs to happen on Saturday. So for a minute there, I was looking at the executives.

They look like, you know, they had the fear of God in their eyes because now of a sudden this multimillion-dollar fight was potentially up in smoke because of this hijinks. In the end, though, it didn't matter. Everyone was okay. But that's some scary stuff. Well, well, I want to follow up on that framing because this is a thing that had millions upon millions of dollars on the line.

It's real big business now. And he also pointed out that you, as a professional, want to do professional things. You want to go show up, do your job, and you doing your job at, like, what do we call this genre now, Ariel? This was a professional boxing fight, but this was Logan Paul, YouTuber, influencer versus Dylan Danis, who, Katie, I don't even know if you know. I have no idea who that is. So please explain what the fuck.

Okay. So Dylan Danes. is actually an incredible Brazilian jiu-jitsu practitioner. He's a black belt. He's had great success in the BJJ world. Then he met a guy named Connor McGregor, and his profile grew a lot, and he sort of adopted some of Connor's persona.

He's only had two MMA fights, and they were very low-level fights for an organization called Bellator. But his last fight was in 2019. He suffered a serious knee injury. He's been out for a while, but what he's really good at is, like, being a crap talker. He's a troll.

And anytime there's something on, like, any major Instagram or Twitter account about the Paul brothers, he would always be talking crap about them, that he would beat them up, that he would knock them out, et cetera, et cetera. He was scheduled to fight a guy named KSI, who was in the main event of this event, who's Logan's business partner in Prime, who's a huge deal in England in January.

He pulled out a week before. At that point, his cue rating couldn't have been lower. Everyone was like, oh my God, Dylan. Like, you talk all this crap. You didn't even show up to fight KSI, the rapper. Like, you couldn't even fight that guy. You're not a real fighter. Logan now,

WW wrestler, killing it all over the place, he's making a ton of money, he says he wants the box. He picks Dylan. When I heard about this, I actually saw Logan at an event in August

and I said, why would you pick Dylan? His cue rating is so low. Why are you giving him this platform? He's like, oh, it's an easy fight, blah, blah, blah. Well, what ended up happening

was Dylan, being the troll that he is, took his trolling into overdrive and ended up really picking a fight with Dylan's fiancé, a woman by the name of Nina, and went on this two-month

like onslaught. This is where I noticed it. Was that my algorithm began feeding me this man's war on former SI swimsuit model and tabloid, I guess, like subcharacter Nina Agdile. I know that name.

But it got, I mean, Ariel, like how extreme did it feel relative to your expectations for all of this? No, it got way too personal and it was gross and he gained 800,000 followers on Twitter and all that stuff.

Like people, what ended up happening though, initially when this fight was announced, I was like, oh, I get it. I get it now. Logan's trying to knock out the guy that everyone hates to troll online. And let's be honest, Logan is polarizing and there's some people who hate him and now they're going to love him. But what ended up happening was that Dylan became the baby face guys. Babyface is the co-wresting term for good guy. And what ended up happening was all these people on Twitter who are maybe sad, depressed, can't get a girl. I don't know what it is.

started cheering him on to harass this poor woman who had nothing to do with this even more. So he would post these pictures and videos and it was getting really ugly. Now she's suing him and it's just like it's turned into this whole thing and it got way too personal. But what ended up happening was it drew a lot of eyeballs and a lot of attention to the fight. And so when we got to Manchester last week, it felt like that was the main event. It wasn't, but it felt like it. That wasn't the main event? It was the co-main event. It was the second to last fight.

But it felt like Logan was going to rip his head off. And who could blame him? It became very, very personal. Ariel, to your point, right? Like, what this did was promote the fight. Oh, yeah. I mean, the juice that I love combat sports, boxing specifically, because humiliation, ego, the ruining of a man's sense of self is on the line.

This one, it just felt real, like the enmity, the stakes were that real. And so what happened? Okay, so it was really real. And it's interesting that you bring up humiliation because that ended up playing a big factor in how the fight went. The fight ended up being a total bust because what happened was

Dylan Dennis, who hasn't fought in four years, spent the first two rounds like this. He didn't throw a single punch. In fact, he only landed nine punches throughout the entire six-round fight. When I was watching it and I was commentating for DeZone, I said, you know what?

I understand what he's doing. He's trying to tire out Logan. Logan's got big muscles. He's not a professional boxer. So maybe he's trying to let him, you know, unload everything. and then he'll pour it on come the third. And in fact, his coach confirmed that that was the game plan.

The problem was at the end of the second, Logan actually rocked him. And I think Dylan then in his mind said, I'm not going to get humiliated by this guy. I'm not going to get knocked down. I'm not going to get knocked out. I'm going to get a moral victory and say that I survived his best shots. And I'm not going to put myself in any kind of harm or trouble to potentially get knocked out by him. And then he took it one step further and just wanted to create like a moment, a viral moment, a meme, if you will. So he tried to like get him in a guillotine.

he tried to do a takedown. He tried to do stupid stuff. But in the end, he only kind of really embarrassed himself and didn't end up doing anything of note. And then at the end up crazy, Logan's bodyguard jumped in the ring and it turned into a huge brawl. Again.

Longed it ended up winning via DQ. It was kind of a... A mess. It was a bit of a sham. Who is the governing body of this fight? It's a great question. This is a great question. So this was under an umbrella,

like an organization called Misfits Boxing. Now, this is fascinating, guys, because Misfits is this boxing organization that is owned by KSI and a guy named Mams Taylor, who was once big in the music industry. And I couldn't believe, I'd never been to one of their events. But to answer your earlier question, Pablo, what is this? It's not boxing. You cannot call it boxing. It's sort of like, you know how professional wrestling has the word wrestling in there, but it really has nothing to do with collegiate or Olympic wrestling? it's crossover or influencer boxing.

You must always call it that crossover or influencer boxing. It's a whole different thing. But you know what blew me away? I didn't know that. And I went there. I was at Tank Garcia in April in Las Vegas. I was at Spence Crawford. Real, real boxers.

Right. But come the co-main event, those nights, there probably wasn't a thousand people at T-Mobile arena. No one was in the arena. No one cared. On Saturday in Manchester, before the first fight, and I think that there were a total,

of 11 or 12 fights on this card. Before the first fight, it was probably 60 to 70% full. Before the first fight on the main card, six fight main card, it was 100% full. You don't see this in anything but the UFC. And where this was different than the UFC was, I couldn't believe how many young kids were there. It was more of a WWE crowd than a UFC crowd. There were 10-year-olds, 11-year-olds, 12-year-olds with their dad. And so what I try to explain to my audience, who gets so upset when they see this stuff, this is a sham, this is an example that boxing is dead, blah, blah, blah. This isn't for me. This isn't for you, Pablo. This isn't for the traditional combat sports fan. There is a massive audience of young kids that love this stuff. And they know

all the characters and they're obsessed with them from top to bottom and they know their stories and they subscribe to them on YouTube and on TikTok and all this stuff. It's a whole other universe that we don't know anything about. And it was just fascinating to witness it all. But the idea that we don't know anything about it, I do want to challenge you on that because it feels like the reason partly why it's so successful is because the skill set, Ariel, the skill set of how to sell a fight, how to create juice, how to create that like crackling sensation of like, man, I wonder what happens. What happens in this fight we're about to see?

It feels like the comment section or the Twitter thread, the world of influencer YouTuber is such a natural farm system for at least that part of combat sports, right? the promotion of it. It is and it uses those elements of oh I like this guy, I hate that guy, I'm emotionally invested in this guy, I want to see this guy beat his ass, I want to see this guy lose, but ultimately

they're not pro-boxers. Right. It's all sizzle. There's no stake. Doesn't it feel like it's once it gets down to the fight, there's never a fight that you're like, wow. What a fight. Actually, to be fair, some of them were good but I would just never, they were novices. It was like seeing like there was one fight

on that card which was crazy, but But I have to admit, for what it was, was entertaining, it was tag team boxing. It was like tag team wrestling. What? Two on two. It was two on two with one guy standing outside. Like, they are trying to redefine this world. So they have to name it.

I think they have to name it something. I think it has to become its own... They should call it Celebrity Death Match. That was a good show back in the day. Be a acclamation, Judge Mills Lane. Yeah. I just think that, like, I don't know, celebrity and the definition of the way they use it on TV when it's a show of people, you know, like Celebrity Jeopardy.

Katie stares into the camera No, but it just feels like It doesn't bum you out at all I know you said there's young kids And that it's for them It's not for us But it doesn't make you go like Hey, this was a real thing

And now in this time When clearly the boxing landscape And fight sport landscape is changing With like showtime is now out of the game Doesn't it make you get a little bit Like where's it going? Don't you worry that somewhere Jeremy Shapp is weeping

Ariel Just like look The idea though To Katie's point though The idea of like we're over indexing on sizzle and we're selling stuff. And it reminds me of like truly the problem sports faces macroeconomically and macroculturally, which is, wow, all these people are talking about this on social.

But how do we actually make this into like a product? And it feels like here, they're at the very least getting people to want to know what's in the box, right? And I just wonder, is that sustainable? Does this feel like a real business that you'll be covering for a long-ass time? No, no, no, this is not You know, there are actual people that cover this. This is their beat. This is not my beat. I kind of pop in and out when there's like

a connection to the M.MA, you know, traditional combat world, Dylan Dennis, M.A. fighter, etc. You know, when Jake, Jake Paul fights in Anderson Silver and Nate Diaz, like, that's my world crossing over. But I'm not going to cover Misfits 11 their next event next month because

it just, it doesn't do it for me, and there's enough MMA and boxing and other things to cover. it doesn't bum me out Katie and I'll tell you why because I don't feel like boxing is in the gutter like people like to think it's in the gutter or say it's in the gutter

in fact boxing has had one of its best years in recent memory with the likes of Tank Garcia and Spence Crawford and Canello coming over and having his big fight just a couple of weeks ago and there are big fights to come Haney Pro Gray in December like I could go on and on about boxing and so it's just how do you want to deal it's almost like talking to someone who writes

for a major newspaper and say doesn't Twitter bum you out doesn't it bum you out that people just want things in bite-sized form? Like, this is just a sign of the times. But this is why this specific sport, if we're calling it that, with scare quotes, why it's so fascinating, it's because here you can see on some level, you can get the guilty pleasure of like, well, yeah, I'm going to click on this highlight of this guy getting his ass beat, because I also know that guy to be a shi person

based on all of his documented behavior in ways that are real and legally troubling and worrisome for the future of, I don't know, the American conscience as a regards like, how do we treat women? And there I'm just like, on some level, though, Ariel, I imagine a click is a click, right? Like, this is sort of the, we will take all eyeballs, philosophy of how to promote something. Yeah, and that gets the most amount of eyeballs. But I could tell you, like, there's a main event in the UFC this weekend involving a guy named Alex Wokonovsky, who's like the type of person that I want my kids to be a fan of, who's a father of three,

who his biggest vice is that he likes to cook chicken wings and put like Cheetos around it or somebody like the guy's like a salt of the earth mench you know what I mean so there's enough out there that's good and wholesome in the fight game you just have to find it and unfortunately those people typically don't make the big bucks don't get the attention and don't get people

you know all crazy going oh my god this is a this is an indictment on the state of the fight game it's not there's always going to be crazy characters there's always going to be good guys and bad guys and it's just up to you to find the ones that you want to root for. It's sort of like, you know, Tim Duncan was just like a soft-spoken dude, right? And there are some people who appreciated that,

and then there were other people who just, you know, like the bad boys more. Oh, Ariel, Tim Duncan would be a terrible influencer. Oh, he would be terrible, yes. But you know what would be better. I have solutions-oriented. Yeah. These guys should cover themselves, both Tim Duncan and this gentleman,

other rate champion of the world. Alex Volkanowski should walk into the ring covered in Cheeto dust. Done. Love that. He's so good. Try to lay a hand on him, try it. Try your best.

Yeah, yeah. Then go home and touch your couch. See how that felt. Don't touch your eye. All right, so now that we've talked about something you know, Ariel, that I knew nothing about, I feel like I should do my story, which is something I know that you know nothing about, which is video games based. And now I think a lot of people, I know, and I'm proud of that, by the way.

I know, and we're going to get to that. But I feel like a lot of people have negative opinions of video games. They think they're frivolous, their time-waste. But I read an article in the Paris Review. Now, that is a publication that I only remember to check when a smarty like Pablo sends me a link and says, did you see this in The Paris Review? That's right. And I read this really long, detailed think piece.

And maybe you can put somewhere who wrote it because I do not remember. And I want to make sure they get credit. Hanif Abdurakib. Yes. One of the great writers. A relationship with Red Dead Redemption, which is a video game. You and I actually have experience with playing together. Remember the time we, during the pandemic, we both played Red Dead Redemption multiplayer.

Ariel, sit this one off for a second. We both got on two different horses going parallel. I think we told the story a million times. It's worth it every time. And without communicating to each other verbally or otherwise, there's a move you can do in the video game where you steal someone else's horse by jumping onto it. We both tried to steal the other person's horse simultaneously and executed, like, a gymnastic routine. It looked like synchronized swimming. It was like we jumped, we just switched horses.

Ariel is horrified. He has no idea why we're so excited about this. Also, Poplar's whole thing at Red Dead was like, can I punch this horse? And you would just keep punching your horse. I was the Logan Ball of Red Dead Redemption. But this article, again in the Paris Review, basically talked about how during the pandemic and then since, because I do think in the post-pandemic world, life, so we look at life differently, basically how the video game taught him about life. and taught him about death

and about the ways that we try to control what we can control and we try to do this complicated moral math of how we can end up redeeming ourselves in the long run. It's very good and I recommend everybody read it, but it made me see, it kind of helps. Whenever you're a video games person,

you get very happy when somebody legitimizes the thing you love and then you point to it and you go, see, it's for smart people and it's helpful. And for me, I mean, video games are a big part of my life. But I think socially during the pandemic, just to speak to that aspect of it, the ability to play video games online with people anywhere. So my brother who had moved to Chicago at the beginning of the pandemic, I now spend more time with him than I ever did. Because every night we play video games together. Every night around the same time, we get on a headset with a group of people and we play whatever we feel like playing.

But it has given me like a social aspect that I think without that I would not. I'm not going to Chicago all the time. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Not calling him on the phone. I want Ariel to begin to imagine what the activities, though, you're doing with your brother and I know your fiancé Dan as well as gamers. What games are you playing? Well, we went through a group of a stage of call of duty.

They're still kind of on that. And there's a new one coming out that I have to decide if I'm going to get into or not. The thing with call of duty and not to get into it. I think they stopped doing this now, but every couple games was from a different developer. There were like two developers. I don't know if developers is the right word. I'm not smart about video games. I just play a lot of them.

It's like a boxing commission, but for multiplayer shooters. So like every other one was made with a different engine. It was like whatever program differently. It moved differently. It felt different. And so there were like a couple that I would just skipped because they weren't for me. But I now have to check up this new. Well, because it just feel, if you get really, I got really good at one of them.

I think it was modern warfare. And I got really good at it. And then the next one came out and I was garbage at it because it was just different. You moved differently. It was too smooth. Cold War was too smooth for me. But anyway... That's what they say about the Cold War.

That's right. There wasn't enough. It wasn't gritty enough. But anyway, so we did a lot of call duty. Then there's... But the main one we go to is we do the Rocket League tournament every... Do you know what Rocket League is, Ariel? Yes, I know about this.

Isn't this like the robots that play soccer? It's cars. It's cars that play soccer. So, you know, the emissions is irresponsible. I think it's a total waste of time. But far beat for me, a guy who likes pro wrestling to knock someone's thing. Hugeest of time. But this Ariel, this is...

is where I am curious. I'm also a guy who owns an Xbox Model as and a PlayStation 5 because I'm about to play the Spider-Man game. Which comes out this week? Yes. Oh, it's today. Oh, it's today. Oh, I got to go down there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Spider-Man, too. Ariel, I feel like you not liking video games, but liking all of this other stuff that is allegedly frivolous, allegedly unserious, allegedly beneath smart people.

Allegedly. How did you avoid ever contracting this particular, yeah, interest? I mean, I liked, you know, I was a big fan back in the day. I played Madden. I played Mike Tyson's Punchout, Nintendo, all that stuff. But to spend three, four hours in front of a screen shooting people, I mean, I'm just not, I'm just a not. I think what it comes down to is I'm not a violent guy. You do fight sports.

By the way, I just served that one. I thought you. I was hoping you would not miss that. I don't like violence. But this guy threw an energy drink at this guy's crotch, and I was there, front row seat. I don't condone that behavior, by the way. But in any event, I think ultimately what it comes down to is, I'm just such a busy guy.

And I don't have time to play Call of Duty with my friends in California or Canada or anywhere around the world. And on top of that, in all seriousness, it is a constant battle as anyone out there who has young kids who have been exposed to iPads and video games and Nintendo Switches and things like that, a daily battle, a true battle, a battle that I don't think I ever presented to my parents when I had an Atari or N64 or anything like that, to try to get them to not do that, to do something else to play outside, to play in the basement with their siblings or whatever. So if I'm sitting there for three, four hours, playing these silly games, what kind of an example am I?

I have a... Yeah, that's what you need, though, you just don't have kids. That's the problem. Where you guys screwed up is you procreate. But I, as a procreator, as the father of a daughter. Oh, here we go. Who also owns a Nintendo Switch. Three and a half.

Five, three and a half. Crazy. Your daughter has a Nintendo Switch at three and a half? I have a Nintendo Switch that she is always asking to play because I've played it in front of her. The way they pick it up is scary. It is. So truly, like, the intuitive aspect of just how to manipulate any sort of tablet and or video game system is unnerving. Crazy.

But I do want to point out that Ariel is talking about Nintendo Switches the way like Bob Ryan talks about three points. Like, you old-ass man. It's not for you. To quote you, it's not for you. But this is where I think, Ariel, and I'm so glad we're talking about this with someone who is not, again, immersed in open world video games. Because a part of what this article in the Paris Review, um, what that article was pointing out was like, this is a game that of course has like this, these existential themes, like the main character who, who you become. He has like a morality meter

where like the more good works you do, Ariel, you're an aspirational good guy, a baby face. He, the more good stuff you do, the more points you get. And the worst stuff you do, of course, like the different sort of consequences you encounter. But the other part about this game, which I find so interesting,

is that it's open world insofar as you can just, as the author points out, go and watch sunsets. You can go to, to the western side of the map. It's a beautiful game. It's beautiful. Not as beautiful as Ghost of Sashima, but also a beautiful.

We can be a samurai in samurai times. Gorgeous. Fucking great. But you can watch Sunsets Ariel in an open world video game, and it's amazing. You can punch horses. Listen, I don't want to be one of those guys who's like, ah, you're wasting your time. I just kind of, it's not for me. I kind of feel like it's a waste of time, and I feel like you're sitting there for, if you told me you were someone who played it for 30 minutes a night.

Well, let's do the accounting here. Just waiting to get into a lobby itself. I know. They do these things on Call of Duty where it's like, oh, a 30-minute double-XP pass. But once you activate it, it goes in real time. Then you have to join a thing, a lobby. Then you have to wait for the 100 other people to join the lobby. By the time you're in, you've got 15 minutes left on your pass.

It is time-consuming. Here's the thing, Ariel. I got a lot of time. Here I am at Not My Job. Like, I've got time. So I do spend a bunch of it playing video games. But I find them. entertaining and also like mentally stimulating and rewarding and rewarding and Ariel Halani is doing

what to de-stress. Really. Honestly, it's it's actually a bit of a sad question to ponder because I'm starting to realize that I have no hobbies. There you go. Whatsoever. My wife likes to watch these shows. I watch none of them with her. She likes to stay up at night and watch, you know, she just finished watching Game of Thrones. I'm proud to say I didn't watch a second of it. And don't. I want nothing to do

with any of this stuff. Honestly, I just want to go to bed. If I could go to bed, I'm very happy. If it's 9.30, I'm thrilled. Yeah, I'm a bit of a loser. 930 is bad time. You're a 930 guy.

If, if I could go, if I could go. Can I tell you what's my, you know what? Can I tell you what's my new favorite thing right now? Is it your sleeping cap? Is it the candle you carry with you on the way to bed at 930? Warm cup of milk.

My new. favorite thing right now, and this isn't like a crazy answer or anything, but I've really fallen in love with soccer. I adore soccer. Huh. That's become like my escape. I mean, you love soccer so much. What if Katie Nolan and I told you that you could play soccer, but as a car?

You could fly through the air. I'm learning how to fly. I'm not very good at it. Rocket League has flying capability. Yeah, so you get to a certain level where I always say I'm a flightless bird. I do a lot of ground work, which you're familiar with. My ground game is strong And so there'll be guys that are trying to fly

And the ball will be up here And they'll try to fly it and they'll miss And then who's waiting there for it? Me put it in the net, that's right But now I'm trying to learn how to fly And it's very hard because you have to feather your boost button Which gets your car to fly It's a whole thing

I can show you Ariel, I can show you later No, I have no My kids played it like actually my kids who are 11 and 9 They've outgrown that game Okay You know what this feels mean This feels just the Paris review

You like the robots hitting the ball, great. I don't know what feathering your boost button means. I just know that someone out there heard Katie Nolan say that and liked it. And liked it way too much. A little too much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And shout out to that lady. Progressive. I see what you did there. Yeah.

I think too much screen time is ultimately bad for your brain, but... That says a guy who's, what, never on his phone? You want me to think you're never on your phone? Says a guy who's sitting in front of a giant screen with with a screen behind him. Yeah, yeah, you are honestly. screen with the screen. You are in a screen sandwich, my friend. All right. Well, guess what? That's a great transition right there. Can I take that transition?

Yeah. Come on. Yeah. Says a guy who's always on his screen. Yes. That brings me to the article that I wanted to present to you guys. A fascinating profile on a young man named Shams Charney. Of course, every sports fan out there knows who Shams is. He is one of the foremost scoopers, newsbreakers in the world of the NBA there's only really two right there's him and woge it's a story in new york magazine and it's entitled scoop dreams written by reeves

wide men and it's a fascinating look at a young man who isn't even 30 years old and who has carved out quite the niche for himself and the thing about this i mean there's a lot to unpack um regarding this story there's a part look i i very much

uh relate and sympathize to the story if only because for a very long time people used to refer to me as the woge of MMA, meaning I would break a lot of stories and some of those stories got me in trouble and people didn't want them out, blah, blah, blah. I have really removed myself from that world because it is intoxicating and it is like this never-ending hamster wheel and ultimately I felt like I was too obsessed with the phone, too connected to the phone, too obsessed with checking the phone in the middle of the night that I miss a scoop, that I not miss a scoop, and life is too short for that nonsense.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, when did you, when did the phone? realization hit because Sham Sharani, for the context of the story, which is really good in York Magazine, he's talking about how his FaceTime average screen time a day is 18 hours. That's crazy. And that he sends more than 500 text calls and emails a day. I want to die. A day. That's suffocating.

To compete, Ariel, to compete in the never-ending rat race of scoops and newsbreaking. Yeah. I don't think that's healthy, but he's a young guy, he doesn't have a family, and so I understand why he's doing it. I don't begrudge him. I was trying to do the same thing in the world of mixed martial arts for a very long time, but ultimately, to answer your question, like a couple of years ago, I just felt like it was unhealthy, and I felt like it was just a never-ending cycle of, okay, you break this story, no one cares 10 minutes later, and then it's on to the next one. and it just it wasn't fun anymore it was making me hate my job and and you know it made the ufc not like me it made other people and it's just like this is not the way to be um and i would say to sham's like he he has obviously created a great

lane for himself his whole relationship with woge i find to be very bizarre star warsy yeah like mentor pupil betrayal allegedly don't talk anymore all that don't credit each other never reference each other don't acknowledge each other's existence. Like there's nothing that seems healthy about that. No. But, you know, they're the only two. And I can't imagine 18 hours in front of the phone.

Speaking from a guy who, by the way, averages like 10 or 11. So I'm not, I can't be too, you know. We're all, we're all ashamed of our fire screen time. I would never say mine out loud. I didn't know if that was bad. No, it is. It is bad. But we're all there together.

So we're not here to judge. He's on a different. I've stood in front of these. I won't name names, but I've stood. stood in front of these quote-unquote newsbreakers, and they can't, they can't not look at their phone for more than a minute. I mean, you see them on TV, like in the NFL,

like we were never, from just being on TV as little as I have, you never have your phone out. But when you see Schefter, he has to have his phone out, and sometimes he would get up and walk away to take, like they are crazy, right? They're just not addicted, but like they are tethered. Well, I think it's addicted, but also incentivized. Right.

the other context for the story is that these are enormously profitable jobs. Like, Shams doing this is not, he's not stupid. He's doing it because this is a niche that is increasingly valuable. He gets paid a lot, a lot of money, as does Wojj even more so, as does chefter even more so. So the idea, Ariel, of like,

this is a way to do sports media. I read this story, and I think to myself, I don't want any part of this job. It seems, and again, maybe that's a place of privilege. because I have this weird studio that I sit in where I talk to Katie Nolan and pay her $0. But it's amazing. It's amazing how little I envy the success story that objectively this is.

Yes. You can make a lot of money, but let me tell you from experience. And it was never at the level of Shams or Wojj. It's a personal jail that you're living in because it's not just about breaking news, this and that. It's a, you know, the relationships. and, you know, it's trying to get, trying to beat this guy. And then the fear, sometimes I would break a story and my heart would be pounding so much. The fear potentially getting something wrong is so, it is truly terrifying.

Now, proud to say, still batting 1,000 babies. Yeah, buddy. Nice. No turnover. But, I mean, I did see, I think one of the dudes that we're talking about did tweet that Dame was going to Toronto and then deleted the tweet and you can't delete anything on the internet. I'm saying that. Existently. Yeah.

Let me tell you something. That is not a good feeling. He must have wanted to crawl into a hole and never come out. It's just, it's unsustainable. And so for someone who is as young as him, it's great. I don't know how Woach does it. And there's a reason why more people don't do it. It is truly an unsustainable.

And I think an unhealthy and unhappy way to live your life. I feel like we're all, my favorite meme on the internet is, and it's my favorite because I relate to it. is the meme is the animated gif of that raccoon who's holding cotton candy who then dips it into water because that's what raccoons do with their food and then looks away for a second and looks back and it's completely dissolved and it's just like oh this is what making content is but the newsbreaker guys are that to the even more extreme extent i think i would constantly be anxious that i'm being fed

bad information in an attempt to change a narrative on something to help somebody save money on a trade or I would always be worried that somebody was giving me bad information. I don't trust enough. You obviously have to double or triple check. So that was a big thing because people have their own agendas. But the thing that I don't get is like, okay, obviously, look, as you said, Pablo, they make money off of it. But there are times where they're literally 30 seconds apart.

Yes. Almost the same wording. It's almost like they're copy and pasting the same. So where's the joy in that? Well, also, you know what I mean? You put Newsbreaker in scare quotes. I co-sign your scare quotes, it's absolutely an occupation

that should exist. I'm not trying to get on a journalistic high horse here, but just the comedy of everybody's trying to get ahead of a press release by five seconds. That's the win. All you got to do is be the nanosecond guy. Literally, the person in the comment section saying, first, that is the win.

It's going to come out. 99% of the time, it's going to get released. You just got to be the first guy with the tweet. And obviously, there's a demand for it like that we live in a world where it's okay to be on television being paid by your employer and it's more important to send something out on twitter as opposed to delivering that. Imagine Walter Cronkite back in the day tweeting that JFK is dead as opposed to delivering it to the world. Obviously it's not as important, but it's just it's absurd to me that we've reached that point.

Now I'm not trying to be, you know, sanctimonious here because I used to kind of reside more in this world but ultimately as a like a from a personal fulfillment standpoint a cardiac standpoint that too i i derive a lot more joy uh from getting big interviews doing great shows having a personality things of that nature uh and i would worry for shams because if he continues to do this like it's it's just unsustainable it truly is uh and i don't think it's very healthy can we do the thing where we get real uncomfortably invasive Sure. And we... So he has 72,443 unread emails.

Yuck. So what do we got? What you got, Ariel? What you got? Right now. Yeah, right now. Okay. Right now, let's go...

Right this second. Let's reveal. We're all going to go around the table. It's amazing that you're asking me this question. Right now, I have 57, and it drives me insane. 57. I have insane OCD. My goal at the end of the night is to get to zero.

Oh, boy. The people who have emails like that. My screen would drive you crazy. I mean, I'm currently, Gmail, I've managed this better. I'm currently at unread 3,282. Wow, I couldn't live. What about you, Katie? Hmm?

Who me? Oh, just at a cool 22,922. A lot of that is stuff like Grubhub being like, we've got your order, and I just never open it or delete it. I try to, every day now I try to go through and I delete all the ones I don't need, but there's like, of me not doing that that I that but but the idea of wait the idea of keep your phone out the idea of your phone as a prison mm-hmm what are you in prison by these days group chat group chats I am uh technically I mean actually if you want to get specific right now I'm in a group chat that involves people that are not on an iPhone which means that you do not have the ability

You should be in jail. You do not have the ability to click on the group and go leave this group chat. It's a prison. I am stuck in the group chat. The only way out is if I message the person

who put me in it and specifically ask to be removed. You can't pull a parachute court. No. Because it's not just an I message group chat. So I'm stuck

and the person who put me in it is like a person I don't want to make mad and so I just mute it and then I have these constant messages. And they're just hard to keep up with. And then if you mute them in their people, you do want to talk to... Like, I read an article in something...

Walser Journal? I don't know. I read a lot. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. About parents... The journal had an article about group chats. Yeah, this may be relevant to you. I know you have children of parents in group chats

and they're finding them suffocating. Of, like, other parents or of, like, the PTA or the... Right. Does anybody know if we're allowed to bring peanut products to school? They're just constantly... instantly texting with these tiny questions and they said they feel this need to scroll through them just to make sure nobody texted about an emergency or nobody texted something specifically related to their child and it's just these I just think group chats are are like they're bordering on like taken over our lives it's anxiety inducing and I'm not good at them I'm not I don't I don't need to you don't need to talk to me every day I don't have anything to update yawn I promise I'll let you know when I do or maybe I won't I feel like so Ariel is also Canadian And I feel like your politeness, Ariel.

This is your inbox zero guy. I have a feeling that the way that you hold yourself to account is probably different than me and Katie. Oh, I have to reply to everyone. Actually, what annoys me more about the story that you just told me was the fact that some people or one person isn't on an iPhone. I hate the green texters. Yeah.

The moment I see that someone is green text, I feel like there's like a block between us. Like, I can't fully embrace you. Like, I feel like the waves of communication. communication just aren't going to be as great as if I could see the dots. But then don't you feel icky because then you're basically saying that everybody has to be an Apple product user and then you just kind of feel like your, but yeah, but it just feels like shouldn't people be allowed to use what shouldn't these tech companies get together and make it so everybody's blue? Can't they figure it out? But that's like some sort of utopia. Yeah, I hate them more than I hate capitalism.

Do you know what's app? Do you know what's app? I don't use it, but I know of it. Oh, you don't use it. It's just another text message app. I don't need another text. I don't have that much to say. And if I do, I'll put it on a podcast. So you know what's interesting. Most of my group texts are on WhatsApp. Yeah.

And in Europe, because I cover sport that is very European, no one uses I message. Yeah. There are some people who don't know. They only use WhatsApp. So it's a whole different thing. But at least in WhatsApp, you can't tell if someone is iPhone or Android or whatever. So everyone looks the same.

What's app. I like that. So that's to your point. Shouldn't everyone look the same? Owned by Facebook. But if I get a new number, I don't do, I don't do Facebook. It's owned by Facebook. Oh, it's owned by Facebook. Oh, it's owned by Facebook. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Shout out to my boy, Mark Zuckerberg. We're close. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We have we have we have on this show. Popper Towers know, covered Mark Zuckerberg and his MMA, BJJ specifically, like Dylan Danes. Thank you, thank you, thank you. He's definitely an Ariel Hulwani guy. No doubt. If Zuck is into this sport,

that is the face, the Canadian inbox zero aspirational face of his favorite media member. I'm confident in that. You are. Just in case you were wondering, Katie. That's okay. I know you were judging. I wasn't.

You don't know anything about me. No, okay, wow. Sorry. I don't want that smoke. I don't want that smoke. I'm sorry. Has Mark Zuckerberg texted Ariel Helwani? Yes or no?

Absolutely, yes. Yes or no. He WhatsAppped him. Text? No. Do we DM? And is he an incredibly fast DMer? I bet.

Yes. Yeah. Have I asked him to come on my show to talk about his love of mixed martial arts and jujitsu? Of course. Yes. Has he said that he would like to come on? Yes. Actually, the way I found out that he followed me was he commented on.

He commented on one of my posts, but I at the time wasn't following him. My friend was like, do you realize that Mark Zuckerberg is in your comments? I was like, wow. Then I wanted the profile. I was like, follow back. I saw the follow back. I was like, wow. That felt cool.

And that. And Ariel Helwani's beleaguered heart was a flutter. Listen, I'm not a name dropper. These things don't impress me. Sure, you know, The Rock and I text from time to time. Oh, of course. What's it like texting the Rock? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

It's got to be the most boring experience. It has to be the most boring experience. There's no chance Dwayne is putting on paper anything interesting. Dwayne is the man. What? Salt of the earth. Yeah, but there's no... Can you...

Can you go into your phone right now, Ariel? And just give us three words from any text exchange you've had with Dwayne. This one popped up. You're a class act and chat soon. I'll just leave it at that. Jesus I mean he said it right there I have it

Wow I mean who am I to disagree A class act A class fucking act Yeah I agree Soon Soon Let's chat soon

We'll do it again soon So at the end here Ariel what we do at the end of how La Torre finds out As we go around the table Katie hates this part Because it always catches I'm ready this time

Oh you are okay We go around the table And we say what we found out today We've shared a lot of things About ourselves and each other invasively, publicly. And Katie Nolan, what did you find out today? I found out today for the fifth time,

but hopefully this time I will retain it, that Jake is the younger one, Logan is the older one. Jake was on Nickelodeon. Logan filmed something you shouldn't have filmed and put it on YouTube. Ask me that next week, and I hopefully will still have it,

but I don't think so. That's what I found out. That's a lot to retain. And that's all you. That's 100% coming from you. So thank you very much for giving it. me that information. Ariel, what did you learn?

I guess I learned that I shouldn't be so negative towards video games that for hermits it could be a great thing. He had me and then he lost me. I was feeling my heart was warmed and then it went cold. Hermits are cool. I don't leave my house. Leaving your house is stupid and overrated. Come at me.

You know, for the antisocial could be a nice way to interact with others and I shouldn't be so negative towards people who's been for to five hours or so a night. Three or four. Three to four. Depends. Playing some fictitious video game as opposed to as the kids like to say online touch grass.

Wow. There's no grass. I live in New York City. So my options are scarce and therefore I played Zelda to 100% completion. Wow. Oh, you did? The new Zelda. Yeah, I got all those Korox seats. Wow, there's a new Zelda? Every single one of them. There's a thousand, I believe. Yeah, I had a lot of

time. Last question. Is the Rock Ever you about how he knew that Osama bin Laden had been assassinated before anybody else. Really? Is that a thing? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know that. The Rock tweeted out like a mysterious, very coy message about like, can't say what it is, but

great news for our country, God bless America. Yeah, proud of being America or something like that. Yeah, proud to be an American. And it was... And then like minutes after we found out that Osama bin Laden was dead. That's right. Wow. He had the scoop. I didn't know that one. Yeah, he scooped. You kids stay on the internet too long.

You're into these group chats. This guy. I thought I was looking forward to hanging out with him. Just got word that will shock the world. Dash. Land of the Free dot dot dot, dot. Home of the Brave. Damn proud to be an American exclamation point.

You know who wasn't a class act? Osama bin Laden. Yeah. Yeah. They would not chat soon. Absolutely not. And so we reached the end of yet another week at Pablo Tori. and I want to point something out.

David Sampson, our arch nemesis, says something very nice about us on whatever the fuck we call Twitter now. And so I just want to point out that David, we appreciate you and we will never stop rubbing it in your goddamn face how much we're finding out all of the time because of Michael Antenucci,

Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Loman, Rachel Miller-Howard, Ethan Shrier, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Chris Tuminello, studio engineering by RG Systems, post-production by NGW, you post and our theme song of course by john bravo we will talk to all of you next week