Pablo Torre Finds Out - The 2nd Annual Ronny Chieng Content-Prostitution Hour

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

The Daily Show senior correspondent, Interior Chinatown star and NBA nerd is here to make your three-level nihilist host feel a rare sense of insecurity, while comparing: humility and arrogance; the bipartisan popularity and cognitive logic of jiu jitsu; the ageless wonder of Tom Brady and Daniel Dae Kim; the love lives of Jeremy Lin and Hideki Matsui; Pablo's career and his cameo in Ronny's spiked pilot about the Brooklyn Nets' front office; and the hierarchy of Most Fun Asians. Plus: uncensored Russell Westbrook slander, unabashed Free Darko nostalgia, last-minute Dennis Leary antagonism, scarring David Lynch surrealism... and a revisiting of Ronnie's awkward encounter with (and hollow apology from) Dan Le Batard — all in the chase for instant aggregation by Buttcrack Sports. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is. Is Pablo S. Torre, Mexican, Asian, or American? Right after this ad. You're listening to Draft King's Network. I was going to make fun of you for that bag. Now I see what's in it. You can make fun of it.

Well, I want to, I was, I have questions about this. Good to see you. How are you feeling? I'm good. I haven't seen you so long. I know. I only see you when you need something from me. Which is this.

Listen. This is all I am to you. I'm not saying that content prostitutes, but... Just because you did a favor to me one time on a pilot. I have to resort to booking fellow Asian people because no one else wants to come on my show. Oh, shit. Well, that doesn't make me want to be here. This is charity.

This is, this is social. is social charity. You get, you get points. You get your punch card of Asian podcasters. Then at the end, you get a free boba. I hate that punch card. I'm the most getable for my advanced stat is... Don't say that. Don't depreciate the value of the superheroes.

Juice to getability. I have the highest ratio of... My assist the turnover ratio. My juice to getability ratio is very high for Asians. That's right. You have... Russell Westbrook qualities.

Have we been rolling? Yes. Awesome. Great. Cut their Russell Westbrook slander, keep in everything else. I want to reveal that I've been unhelpful in creating peace and brokering peace between you and a certain podcast host.

Oh. Yeah. I mean, I got no beef with him. We don't need to go into it. Are you sure? Yeah. I don't want people to be like he won't let it go.

Because I did let it go. I know, but I would like to force it into your life again. No, it's okay. Because it amuses me. It's okay. We don't need to force it. You sure? I think so. I don't want to become the guy who keeps bringing it up.

I know, I know. But would you mind if we brought former North Carolina receiver Taylor Vipolis back onto a speedboat again? Oh. And just cut to you over and over again. Okay, so just real quick here because we have lots of actual special stuff that I've been meaning to discuss. us all year with Ronnie Chang, our special guest today, the actor, stand-up comic, daily show correspondent, et cetera, et cetera. And I have been truly waiting to do this for months now.

But the thing that I do need to just get past first is Ronnie Chang's first and only interview on the Dan Levitart show, which was disastrous. And from earlier in 2024, before the Super Bowl, when a bewildered Ronnie was zoomed in to Dan's show, which kept trying to hijack the Taylor Swift YouTube algorithm, I am told, by cutting away from Ronnie to producer and former North Carolina receiver, Taylor Vipolis, who was live streaming his Swift football takes

while on an actual speedboat. Hold on a second, Ronnie. So we're bringing in our... Our speedboat here, we're going very fast again. Do you have a sports question of any kind, Ronnie, that you would ask our speedboat correspondent that you would want him to give you an answer to as fast as possible?

No. Okay, I put you in a bad spot. You apologize in advance. Yes, I keep doing that, and now Taylor is going slow again. This is, I feel like it's, I feel like I'm doing the interview with the, with the countdown on it.

Okay, because I'm looking at the guy on the boat, so I'm wondering how long I have the answer. Yeah, I would not say that Taylor's swift takes were a rousing success, but I am pretty sure that all of this was ultimately Dan Levitart's idea. Ronnie, I also apologize. On the back end, though, I mean...

Well, we're going to have you on again and do it right and do it better without someone on a speedboat, okay? So if you would do us the courtesy, of doing it again because I botched the first six minutes of this? Maybe not. Sure. It doesn't sound promising. It doesn't sound promising.

It doesn't sound promising. I don't blame you if you don't. But thank you for this. He called me to apologize the day after. And I asked him, how did you get my number? And it was you. You gave him my number. And he apologized for taking my number.

He actually did. The funny thing about Dad is that, He is... Levitard loves nothing more than a comedian. Really? It could have fooled me. But here's the real sad part

was, when it comes in in the list of requests for me, I say no to all this crap. I know. I said yes to him because I was actually a fan of his. I know. That's what was kind of sad.

That's right. Damn. You know, we've gone this thing. And now you've said it in the past tense. Oh, fans? Oh, yeah, yeah. Let's just say he's not my algorithm. him.

But you know what? He did call me apologize but like it feels a little bit like hollow because it's like well you left the clip on so it's like what you're really sorry?

What I want to keep prodigate though is the genuine Is this a big thing in the sports journalism subculture? At a company that Dan owns and operates that I work for it's very much an inter-office Oh you work at the same company?

I should say that Oh, I didn't know that. I should have probably disclosed that legally. What, Meadowlock? Yeah, that's right. Oh, so he works for Metal Lock? Dan, yeah, he founded it. Oh, he founded this thing?

Well, why the fuck am I here then? I was going to say, you probably shouldn't have done this. Yeah, you should have opened with that. I thought this was like your own thing. No, I didn't know that. That's why you're so interested, I see. Yeah. I said, no, I didn't know that it was the same company.

But that goes to the show that's how little, like, I hold grudges about this. You know what I mean? Truly, truly. What I was going to try Hey, Dan, can we get a new chair? I know. This is, this is Dan paid for this? Get this on camera.

This is the level. This is where we're at. ESPN to this now. This is peak sports podcasting, by the way. I don't know if you'd notice this, but we're in a boom time for sports podcasting. ESPN to this. We came and get chairs that don't wobble. That's how far we've come.

That's how far we've come, everybody. I genuinely did love you going on Rich Eisen's show, though. Thanks for having me on. It's nice to be on a sports show with a host who actually wants guests on the show. Versus some other sports podcast shows I've been on. Oh, yeah, Rich was great. Rich was the best. Respectful.

He was trying to get in depth. Meanwhile, you and me, like, we have had off-the-record dinners in which we criticized NBA players that were afraid to say in public. What do you mean? Well... I think the first time we had dinner. Yes. This is probably over... How long ago was this?

This was a time, and this is how I sort of carbon date our friendship and also like the arc of our demographic. It's at a time when we were still talking mostly about Jeremy Lynn. Oh, yeah. Hey, I'm going to go see him in Taiwan. You are. I'm going to go see him play in Taiwan. Sorry, don't let me. No, no, no.

No, don't me derail it, please. I was just saying, like, we met up, talked about, again, your genuine love of basketball. Yeah. Did you know that he had been. married before he announced it on Instagram. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

I didn't. But it's okay. He's a private guy. I know, I know, but I thought that I was I was on the... You thought you were better friends with him. I've known him since he was in college. Yeah.

But I also was... This is my weird relationship with him, though, is that I was always also... And this is my conflict with him. Yeah, you went to Harvard with him, that's right. And I was also like a journalist who was like writing about him. And so I was always kind of mining him. He was the first...

He was an American. and I turned into a content prostitute where I was like, hey man, I needed this quote, I need to follow you around. The adventure career. The adventure career, yeah. Legitimately, I was a barnacle on his leg. But when I saw that he had announced

years after he had gotten married, and I get why, by the way, to be clear. His level of celebrity and fame, especially overseas, China, Taiwan, all that. It is unthinkable. And so when I saw it, I was like, I was both happy and sad. I'd be happy for him

No, no, but sad because he had to go through this whole layer of privacy protection Because No, don't be sad Because because the truth I don't want to speak for him But the truth is I think he just

Doesn't think it was anyone's business Maybe he's, he's very humble guy He probably didn't think it was a big deal You know And so it wasn't like he was like Oh no, I have to hide this from the world He more like If anything

I think it was more like he doesn't care about you know, letting the world know what's going on. Do you remember, I don't know if you remember this story, when Hideki Matsui, again, former Yankees, slugger, one of the great stars of Japanese baseball, when he announced his engagement in America, and he announced it at a press conference that he called, and instead of showing a photo of his wife,

he produced a drawing he had made. Here we go. It looks like he's describing who mugged him You know what I mean It's like this person If anyone's seen this person

They have my wallet Yes it looks like that Have you seen that local news segment they did in like Alabama When they saw the leprechaun This amateur sketch resembles what many of you say The leprechaun looks like Yeah yeah

I mean she's more beautiful than a leprecha To be clear for those just listening On audio She is beautiful and the drawing is better rendered than I would say 99% of most baseball players would attempt to draw their own wife. Yeah, man, if I drew my own wife,

wouldn't look anything like that. Yeah, I think... So that was a privacy thing, right? That was a privacy thing. But then why even do that? That's a quirky thing. You know what I mean? Just I married someone, don't worry about it.

But this is, I think, the obligation of celebrity that makes me sad, which is if you're Jeremy, like, at some point you've got to say... No, you don't, you know. I wonder actually when you sort of... What's your Goldilocks level of celebrity at this point? Because that is, like, drawing a picture of your own wife is too famous. Honestly, I don't think about it.

And I do think that people like Jeremy who are very focused on a craft, and I'm lucky to be focused on stand-up comedy, I don't think about getting famous. I don't think about getting clips. I just want to write a funny joke. So, you know, sorry, this is a roundabout West. It's just the most Asian thing you could possibly say. No, it's a craftsman thing.

I don't know if he's Asian. I mean, I guess Jeremy and I are both Asian, but I'm sure. But also just the dedication to, like, I want to be good at this. Yeah. And I'm not here for the superficiality of it. I actually want to meritocratically earn this. Yeah, I got to be honest. I'm surprised when anybody recognizes me on the street.

I'm shocked. When someone's like, oh, I saw you on the thing. I'm like, you watch that? You're genuinely shocked. I'm genuinely shocked. You've been in a Marvel movie. Yeah, but we're a small roles. Like, I genuinely am shocked when anyone's like, I saw your stand-up comedy

or I saw you on the daily show. Because a lot of times, the daily show, it feels like we're making a show for ourselves. In a good way, it's like we're making a school play. That's what it feels like. It feels like we're like, hey, we're just doing it for like in this building, this weird, you know, little like comedy performance piece. How are you with people who say stuff like that? Is it a fun interaction?

Unfortunately, I'm not great at it because I think the humility makes people think I'm being arrogant. Yes. So people will come up, be like, hey, are you the guy? I'm like, oh, no, I don't know if I'm the guy. guy, I don't know who you're talking about. Like, I don't know who you mean. Are you the crazy rich agent? They'll be like, are you that person?

And then I'll be like, I don't know if I'm that person. I don't know who you're thinking of. You know, and my wife is always like, just say you're freaking... Stop gaslighting them. Yeah, no, I'm not gaslighting them. They're not specific enough. And the lawyer in me is like, well, I don't want to freaking tell you, I don't want to assume that I'm the person that you're thinking of. Maybe I'm not. You know? That's right.

So I, so I'll be like, you that guy, I'm like, no, I don't know if I'm that guy, probably not. Yeah, yeah. Now I can see why your wife is like... Just say you're really making a harder. Just say you're Pablo Torre. And then... Just say your Pablo Torre.

That's right. And then they'll be confused again, as always. So why is the Mexican guy with a Chinese face talking about sports? Why is he on the sidewalk? You've never solved that issue. No. 20 years in the game now. You've never solved the...

Why are you a Chinese guy of a Mexican name? Literally. One of my books... So Google Chrome, I used to use it in a way that was like sort of more... rigorous. I used to have these bookmarks. And so bookmarks toolbar. This is not something I prepared for you. Look at what's floated over

that. That's a Yahoo! Answers. Is Pablo S. Torre, Mexican, Asian, or American? It's the worst phrasing of that question. The all-American. Or-American. It's the best. It's the best. So, why don't you answer it? I'm Mexican. Dude, I was in a

pilot that you take. Yes. I know. I appreciate. Can we talk about that pilot? Yeah, I think the statute of limitations has run out on that two years ago. Yeah, we never got to talk about it. That's right. So I was trying to actually start with that because the reason that you have been genuinely frustrated

as well as artificially gassed up to be frustrated by me about this whole avatar thing is because you are a sports fan to the degree that you filmed a pilot in which the concept was what? I was the general manager of the Brooklyn Nets That was the pilot We filmed it

We actually filmed it We didn't just write it We filmed it Pablo made a cameo in it As the sportscaster at the start You know when you have real Like sportscasters Yeah I think it ambiguous sports anchors

Yeah and you and Jalen did it for me I was really appreciative Because it wasn't easy to get you guys And it came down to the wire And luckily the synergy Of course and luckily the synergy of Disney, Hulu came together and you guys jumped in it.

I was really appreciate it. It was really fun for me to theatrically yell about you. Yeah, yeah. But the premise, like the log line of Ronnie Cheng becomes Brooklyn Net's general manager. Frankly, I was in based just on that sentence.

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, thank you. It was a fun idea. But also, like, what is most sad to you about the pilot, spoiler alert, not being picked up? We had a lot of great themes in it. You know, it became this,

kind of a way of addressing bigger themes in America in a very fun way. Foreigners being asked to take over a very American institution because they determined that we were the best at it. Because my character that won championships in the Philippines. Oh, God. I didn't know that part about the bio. Yeah, so the owner was... Oh, now I'm even mad about this.

So the owner owned the story. The owner owned the team in the Philippines and several other teams and the Nets. And so because I won so many times in the Philippines And the Nets won't doing so well in the pilot He brought me over So he stuck his neck out to bring me over Even though everyone was like This guy's not appropriate for this league

Because he's been So that was the pilot Yeah I could have played so many different extras Yeah you could have been the sideline I could have been again The 40th Filipino guy in the flashback You could also have been the annoying podcaster

Who's like talking about the team Season 2 I would have been radicalized I would have been selling crypto and supplements and hated you. It would be really funny if every season, like, you start off. Because we start you off as the ESPN anchor. Every season, you just go from ESPN anchor to podcaster to just like... This guy outside, just like yelling at people.

I've clearly just got insane. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I loved that concept. Thank you. I really did. We loved it, too. We put a lot of heart and money into it. And we had Dennis Leary.

was the main antagonist. So this is me learning this, finding out about this for the first time, like what this would have been. I didn't know any of this. Yeah, Dennis Liri was the main antagonist. He was great. He was my assistant GM.

So I got hired over him. He got passed over. I would love to have seen Dennis Lerry. He was the best. He was the best. And not just on screen, but he was a great guy off screen as well. He saved the pilot a little bit

because we came to him quite last minute. And he's not someone who, he's a great guy, but he's not someone to do a charity project. So he liked the script. And then he came on board and he understood what we were trying to do And it was great

He loves basketball He was the traditional like ex-player became assistant GM And I'm like this, you know dumb young kid And it was yeah It was great Do you think that you would be a good

Front Office executive? I don't know You know When I was in college I fantasized about going into sports You know Whether it was That's why I admired you so much

Because you were the guy who made it I was watching you in Australia Like oh man This guy's in the system He's in the ESPN around the horn. Industrial complex. Yeah, he's writing the thing.

I think for me, it was either going to sports journalism or maybe try to become an analyst because I had a law degree. So I was like, hey, maybe I could become an analyst for a sports team the way, what's that baseball movie? Moneyball? Moneyball, yeah. I was dealing with money ball.

Because when we were in college, analytics was just coming up. Exactly. So it was almost like a way for geeky guys to get into sports. Back in my day, right? When this was like the beginning of the analytics boom in sports, I got credibility because I was Asian.

Seriously, I would be moderating these panels at the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference, basketball analytics with these GMs and MIT. They're assuming that I could like double check their math. And I'm just like, I... So you wrote the Jeremy Lynn and analytics wave just because you were Asian. Absolutely. Absolutely. What do you think is your strength then from Harvard? I don't. I don't.

What are you good at? That, uh, huh. Like, what do you think? Analogies? You're good analogies? I guess that's a skill. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, truly, like, what I felt my superpower was, was writing.

If you gave me time to write something, I could create something that could hang with the best students at the best college was my confidence. Yeah. So why don't you use this skill thing? Yeah. Now you have become my mom. But I've been saying this since I first stepped into this studio like three years ago. I've been like, why are you doing this? Have you heard about magazines and how they're dead now?

Yes. And how people are paying former NFL players nine figures to speak into microphones. It's not about the money. Isn't it though? No, but this is genuine what I want to ask. There's not so much a dig at you, but like... No, it's, by the way, a valid question and insecurity. Both.

Oh, sorry. I guess I managed to find it. Um, the, the, I, because I, I met up with the free daco guys. Yeah. Because it turns out one of the free, when did that happen? Yeah, one of the free daco guys is married to a writer at the daily show. Oh. Sophie Zucker. So Sophie will keep telling me like, hey, do you like free daco?

I'm like, how do you like free daco for, people who don't remember? Free daco was like, your NBA nerd credibility is off the charts right now. Guys, this is what I want to talk about. Don't get me on your stupid show to jump on a, on a speedboat. with some guy who doesn't like me. You know what I mean? Like, let's talk about something in depth. Anyway, I know you're going to clip that in front.

Go for it. I didn't even know that this was Dan Libertad's company. We're kind of like in his basement. Yeah, I can't even believe that. Yeah. A good thing you didn't open to that. I probably wouldn't have come. But the free daco was like the first

elevated sports writing that I saw. I think that happened in a... American culture that kind of merged pop culture with specifically basketball. On the internet. With cool graphics. So they were kind of like the precursor to Grantland in many ways. A bunch of the Grantland people came out of that coaching tree. Jay Caspian Kang, another great Asian American writer who still writes, wrote for free

dark a blog for them. Yeah. Yeah. And so they would do, they released a book, you know, with graphics. They would do these really fun analogies of like, you know, you know, players and figures in pop culture, compare them to movies, and then they were combined it with these really cool graphics.

And I never seen anything like that before. Right. Now you've described something that is omnipresent. Back then, it felt revelatory. Again, it was on, I think it was also on like blogger.com. Yes, it was on blogger. It was like, yeah, one of these block spot things. And they spawn, they spawn books and t-shirts.

And ultimately, I guess they never transitioned into the new social media era. Yeah, and God bless them. They, they opt. out at probably the right time. The wrong time, to be honest. They all right the wrong time if they had just kept it. Wrong for the capitalism of it. Right for the psychology of their own well.

Oh, why? Why'd you say that? Because I think just creating content right now is inherently... It's a nightmare. Look at us right now. Yeah, I know. This is a... Just like praying we get aggregated by...

Jesus. Butcrack sports. Oh, man. That's what it's come down to now. I mean, you're off. social media. We used to be... I'm off of it, yeah.

We used to be Grantland, you know, who's that guy who wrote Breaks of the game? David Halberstam. David Halberstam. And now we're trying

to get aggregated on butt crack sports. Yeah, yeah, yeah. NBA Centell. We want to get aggregated by the scammer accounts that imitate the real aggregator accounts.

We are three levels beyond actual content creation. We're just eating people's regurgitated vomit. I know. So why don't you... elevate this by like making a, you know, revitalizing that, that Grantland McSweeney for sports.

Ronnie, Ronnie, I have to say, without tooting my own horn in a not self-deprecating way. When you're not on this show, the show is kind of doing that. We all work for tech companies. Yes. You connect the dots back far enough. and you will either soon be working for one, some conglomerate, or we are competing with them,

which makes media companies behave like them. And I imagine for you, this is something that you also have contemplated slash had to grapple with. Yeah, yes, very much so. And I'm someone who I grew up loving American institutions from afar. So for me, the MBA was an institution, the daily show was an institution, ESPN was an institution. And so for me, I guess there's a certain nostalgia.

factor for that, where I respect the institution so much. Maybe I'm romanticizing it, but... Well, I, look, you're, that that's a bit of a stump speech that I would vote for, frankly. Yeah. It does feel, I say this, I get asked to talk to journalism students.

Oh, no. I know. No, and so what I always have to catch myself from being is like third level nihilistic about everything. Where I go immediately, they're like, no, they're like, so how do you, what should I do? future. I'm like, well, we're all only fans creators now working for these soulless tech companies. And so I don't know what... And so I'm like, yeah, you want me to show some ankle?

What do you want me to do? Like, yeah, there's... I know, it's very sad. I love how you're at level three, three level. I had to research what three level, um, in basketball meant. Oh, sure. 2K, like a level three-three facilitator. Like, Scotty Pippen is a three-level, it means that you can... Three-level score. Yeah, you can score at the basket, mid-range and three-point. That's right. So you're like a three-level on your list. You can't be a nillist at any point. I can depress a journalism student in a myriad of ways. I love how we're talking about this because this won't make you any money right now.

But I love talking about this. Here's the other factor is that, like, for me, I'm lucky with comedy. I feel like you don't worry about what people are doing. Do the comedy you want to see. And don't chase the algorithm or the trends. That's oftentimes when the best comedy comes out. So in your case, it's like, forget what the last. landscape is, be the change you want to see.

And I just got back into reading like a year and a half ago after seven years out of the game, which is I can't believe how long I went without reading properly. Dude, reading is the perfect antidote to social media. If you feel like social media is doing you damage, just reading a book or reading a news article, a long-form, well-written essay or article, it's the perfect antidote to it. So I think that it's actually a matter of national imperative for mental health and just, you know, for civilization

that you start writing. Oh, come on. Yeah, it is. If you don't write, if you don't do it, this is, it's just a race to the bottom with this. Metal arc media, colon. A race to the bottom. A race to the bottom.

I can't believe the name was so inocum. Metal Arc. It makes it sound so, you know, like cheerful. Metalark is a bird. This is John Skipper's... By the way, John Skipper from President of ESPN. Yes. His whole thing was like, the metal arc is the bird

whose song heralds the beginning of a new morning. Oh. What a... What a dressy way to hide the destruction of civilization through clip content. This is the new morning. then someone should shoot that burden. Because if this is what's heralding, we don't need this.

You quoted inadvertently or not Gandhi. When? The change you want to see in the world. I'm apocryphly, at least attributed to Gandhi. Yeah. Is Gandhi Asian? Is Gandhi Asian? He's Indian. Yeah.

I don't know if he's... I don't know if he'll be considered classically Asian. When you see Gandhi, do you think Asian or do you think Indian? This is why... This is why I ask. Yeah. This is why I ask. I'm now trying to poke holes in the coalition.

I've gone from solidarity building to now try and undermine us. Yeah. I would argue that Gandhi himself would reject the term Asian because that's a colonial term to try reference all of one continent as one people. You know, whereas even in India, there's separate people. Right. I would say. You just managed to make the Indian caste system woke. I guess so.

I guess. I guess. Yeah. The cast system was the original. That's right. They actually understood the complexity of humanity. The reason I am attempting to segue back to something relating to our ethnicity is because Interior Chinatown is something that I watched and enjoyed.

Oh, thank you. I chose not to read a book. Instead, I watched this new show on Lulu. Well, in that case, then that's good. Absolutely. It was excellent. It was ambitious. It was complicated.

It was funny. It was meaningful. And your character, I just want to. point this out. Your character has some of you in it, but in other ways, I'm like, this is, this is not seem like Ronnie in real life. Oh, thank you. I was trying to do my best to act. Well, your character is a stoner in the show. And I don't, I don't think of you as, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, yeah, I grew up in Singapore. We don't do weed in Singapore. So, I know you don't do weed because you call it doing weed. Yeah. I don't do it. I just don't. So, yeah, I had to pretend to be a guy who. does weird. I'm not saying I want someone to die. So what are you saying? Well, I'm saying if someone's

already dead, I would like to be the personal fine body. That's weird, man. Okay, you know how in cop shows there's usually a cold open? Cold open. The first scene before the main titles. Right. Okay, so for a couple of minutes, we fall in this random character who we've never met, who's not one of leads. And part of you is thinking, why am I even watching this guy? Why are you watching this guy? You're watching because either he's about to get killed or Oh? You seriously never seen a cop show? How is that even possible?

Video games and weed. Okay. At one point, your character declares that Koreans are the most fun Asians. Oh, yeah. No, I... Yeah, do I? That's what I rode down, but I was stoned when I was watching it, so maybe it's, you know, not quite accurate.

Maybe that's why the writing hasn't happened because of the drugs. The drugs did develop kind of concurrently with the decline. decline of the writing. The writing. Yeah. Now that I think about it. I, yeah, I probably did say that. I definitely said that in my standout special.

So. Do you have a hierarchy? Of fun Asians? Yeah. Yeah. I watched my standout special. I described the hierarchy. Yeah, we can play this game.

Yeah. I'll push people to my... And then I'll use your... What I remember. Filipinos were not number one. And that is criminal. Oh, most fun? Yeah.

No, but in my standout special. special, they were like second. Not good enough. That's not good enough? No. Oh, wow. All right. Well.

We sing. We dance. I mean... Put on masks and become Jabbawhakis. Filipinos are like up there with the most fun. So the only reason I didn't give them the most fun right now is because I was arguing. My argument in my special was that Koreans right now are dominating. They are.

Western media with, you know, music, movies. Squid games. TV shows. Parasite, BTS. Yes. So that's the only reason why. But I think Filipino was a close second in my... I ran into somebody that you know, Daniel DeKamm. I saw Yellowface on Broadway.

Yeah, me too. Excellent. I'm also culture. Yes, that's right. We love theater and books and reading. And Daniel DeKam noted Korean. Dude is 56. Yeah, ageless.

I'm like, I am used to the trope of Asian people looking young. I have been carded at a bar in the last two years. Yeah. That guy, it's ridiculous. Yeah. Like, we will show a photo of Daniel Day Kim. Like, he should be studied. Yes.

By science. Yes. Him and Tom Brady. Well, Tom Brady, I mean, your favorite, your, your demigod. Yeah. Yeah. That guy had just intense plastic surgery, though. You know that.

Oh, Tom Brady had plastic surgery? I didn't know that. You don't think so? I don't know. Oh, Ronnie. Well, now we got to go down this whole? This is like ruining. Wait, let's not go from the other day Kim first.

Yeah, yeah. Down Day Kim? Yes. Super fit, looks young, has two, like, 20-old kids. It's crazy. Like, um... Also, also a big football fan. Oh, yes, he used to play quarterback.

What? You should get him in to talk about football. I didn't know he played quarterback. Yeah, he ran a lot of Wishbone. I got... Okay, all right. Thank you for feeding my content... Yeah, yeah.

My content furnace, just shoveling coal all the time. Yeah, he used to be a quarterback at his high school in Philadelphia. That's great. It's crazy. Asian quarterback. I love it. Yeah, yeah. I love it.

But Tom Brady definitely, I mean... You had plastic surgery? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, allegedly, I guess I should say legally speaking. But I'm just going to Google... Tom Brady face transformation. Yeah, but that's just because he stopped eating sugar.

You attribute that to the TB12 diet? Yes. You think this is the TB12 diet? Yeah. Look, I mean, his jaw line is... carved out of marble on the right. And on the left, I'm just saying,

like, none of us should be so confident. I'm to insult old Tom Brady, but come on. No, but that's a kid coming out of college versus grown man. That's a baby fat. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He just, the TV 12 diet, you know.

And then, what do, what do they call it? Pliability. Pliability, right? No nightshades, all that stuff. This does provide me with a convenient segue, though, because Tom Brady, the trauma visited upon him recently, of course.

I'm not making light of this. I just want to point out that his ex-wife fell in love with her jiu-jitsu instructor. Oh, yeah, yeah. And behind you, you walk in and I'm like, Ronnie, what the fuck is this? What are you bringing in here? I got to go. What do you have in that bag? I'm going straight to jiu-jitsu after this.

Can you show us the bag? Oh, okay. Oh, actually, I picked up this guy at random, but you'll love this one. This is, again, as always with Ronnie, like, I have no idea. what this is, it's unplanned. Look at that. That is... It's the New York Knicks ghee.

Rodi Chang whipping out a jujitsu gig festooned with Nick's logos. I have... Albino and... I should shout out albino and preto. Was this custom made for you? No, no.

They sold it. They have a partnership. They did a collab with the NBA. So there's a few... You see, there's official logo. Okay, this is all legit. It's ridiculous. I didn't even realize.

that when I pulled it out. I just pulled it out. I love that the last thing you might see, or the last thing your opponent might see, as they lose consciousness, is a logo that reminds them of, like, Carl Anthony Towns. Yeah. Yeah. And to be honest, it's the biggest on the back. So if they...

It's enormous on the back. If they see this, if my opponent's looking at this, that means I'm going out. This is the last thing they see before they choke me out. I do want to talk about this in Sierra Chinatown thing real quick because I feel like I haven't done a great job of of selling it to people. Of explaining what it is. It's kind of hard to explain, but just imagine it's guys,

it's too, well, it's a bunch of people who are in a TV show and they're unaware that they're on a TV show. Right, like law and order. Yeah. Is the analog for what the show is? Police procedural. Police procedural law and order

and well background characters in it, but we don't know what in a TV show. Right. You're the guys working at the Chinese restaurant in the police procedural. who it turns out have a vast universe that they are inhabiting themselves. Yes. But they're, what's hard to explain. But we're constantly in the background.

And what's hard to explain, though, is the shift in perspectives. Yes. In like the, wait a minute. So is this real? Who's aware of this? Right. Are the characters, are the cops aware of what they're thinking? In that way, it becomes both gripping and also hard to summarize.

Yeah, it's hard to summarize. But I think that's what's cool about it. It's that it's weird and ambition. We're not smooth feeding you. Like when you watch Twin Peaks, are you like, well, I vividly remember the first time I saw Twin Peaks. Oh yeah, yeah. It was on VHS.

I was doing a Christian service trip to Ecuador because I'm a good person. Wait, what? This is in high school. This is in high school. Wait, you're Christian? You do service? I was raised Catholic. I went to a Catholic All-Boys high school.

Okay. And we went on a Christian service trip to Ecuador. Oh, my God. Which, again, confusing because not Hispanic. But there I was. And there was a TV with a bunch of old VHS tapes. And one of them was Twin Peaks. And I had no idea what this was.

We put it on one day. And I just remember being almost scarred. Like haunted, actually. Right, haunted. But it's the highest compliment to compare anything to David Lynch, is my point. Sure. Surrealistic. But it aspires to a surreal.

Yeah. That is, it's the whole thing about like working for any tech company Dow, it's like, what is this show like? Yes. And we are making comparisons to things that are elevated. Yes. Which is a compliment because that's not what you would do if you're just trying to maximize the simplicity of the elevator. Yes. 1000%.

So how cool is it that we got to make this thing? It's awesome. With Asian guys just. And I mean, it's making a broader point as well. It's this idea that why are we background characters in the story all the time, you know? What does that mean? We're always on the background of culture in America, right? So, like, how do we navigate that?

Yes. What is that waiter in the background scene of this Law and Order episode thinking? Right. Right. It's just a very funny premise. Yes. And then you, the thing that makes it work, though, to me, as a viewer was, but there is an actual mystery. Yes.

That's unfolding. It's not merely beating the same drum of this is a clever premise. And there is a social good to come out of this. It's like you're actually trying to figure out what is happening. Yes, what is happening? All the characters are slowly trying to figure out what's happening. And it gets weirder and weirder. Right.

Why is Ronnie Chang, spoiler alert, getting thrown into a vat of hot sauce? No, that's not me. That's not me. That was someone, that's Jimmy. Hey guys, I'm here with my main man, Detective Willis Wu. And when Willis wants something with a kick, He reaches for Chinese suffer Whoa

Wait wait wait Whoa what the fuck How's the spice level That's spicy enough for you You throw Jimmy into that I throw about yeah You all look alike That's okay

I understand I understand coming from a Mexican guy You can't tell us apart So okay So the jiu jitsu thing though Yeah I on You're not on Twitter

X or whatever But on Instagram I see I see the proof of the body transformation. But more than that, the martial art transformation that you've been undergoing for how long now? Oh, I've been doing martial arts since 2004. So, I mean, not Jiu-Jitsu, but other martial arts.

I used to do Eskima, which is the Filipino. Oh, my, really? Yeah, I've been doing it for a while. It's fun. It's not even about fighting. It's just good mental health. And in a weird way, jujitsu, this could be an article for your never-to-be-created.

long-form magazine. Like, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu has been totally embraced by America. Middle America. We did an episode early, early on, with Jay Caspian Kang, actually, about why Mark Zuckerberg is so into Jiu-Jitsu. I joke about that in my special as well.

Please watch Netflix December 17. I unfortunately do recommend that they do that. Thank you. But there is a sort of cognitive logic, an intellectualism to Jiu-Jitsu in terms of strategy. That I certainly never appreciated because I only know about it because, oh, yeah, it's like MMA stuff.

Now BJJ, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is very popular. There seems to be, it's a thinking man's martial art is the way that it was described to us. Yeah, it is. I think so. I think because you can do uncooperative sparring every class. So there's a... What does that mean? It means that when you're...

When you spar in Jiu-Jitsu, You traditionally spa at the end of every single class. And it's not like you're both trying to win. So it becomes an actual competitive game. Right. Practice feels like the real thing. Yeah. And because of that, you get like the strategy.

Because you're not just drilling mindlessly. You're both trying to win. So then it becomes like chess a little bit. And because you're not striking, so you don't get, you know, any long-term brain issues. Well, except for all the consciousness that you lose. Well, no, but you should be tapping out before that. So, yeah. So in that sense, it's a real kind of gentleman's martial art.

Yeah, but my broader point, we could talk about jujuice too forever. But like, my broader point is that for some reason, middle America. Yeah, why? I don't know. There's something about Brazil and jujitsu and like that American something that they just go like that, you know. It's a real fit. It has been startling to me as somebody whose dad, again, Filipino. guy did martial arts in the Philippines.

Oh. And put me into karate classes and taekondo classes and stuff. What did your dad do? He did a little Eskremont. He did karate in the Philippines. I think he was like a brown belt, which is the second one. Whoa. Your dad could kick some bud.

I mean, as every Asian father must. Right. Wow. Must be crazy trying to fight your dad. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. But you never did it, eh?

I tapped out at white. belt every time. Wow. As impressive as you are, as a person, Harvard and ESPN pioneering Asian American Genoist. Your dad is like some... He's way better. The LeBron James of Filipino urologists is what I always call him.

Crazy. This is making me feel both better and worse. Everything I've accomplished. But the point being that Jiu-Jitsu clearly is just cool and sort of like... And obviously there's the MMA part of it. There's the UFC. There's the Joe Rogan. It's just hard to disentangle it from all of it.

culture. But it's so popular right now that it is a remarkable and unthinkable thing for again, an Asian American to be like oh, Middle America just loves this weird Asian art now. Yeah, jiu-jitsu. I mean, and I think it has something for

left people, left and right. Yes. I think the left, if you're on the left, then you do jiu-jitsu, you kind of toughen up a little bit, you learn some self-reliance, and you kind of learn that no one can help you. You've got to help yourself. It's one-on-one. And then if you're the right, you learn the opposite. You actually learn that, oh, there are people, you can't just be a, you have to look after other people in a class. For you to have a good training session, everyone needs to be okay. You know what I mean? And so you learn kind of putting other people before yourself, you know, not not going for the kill every single time because that's not what creates a good atmosphere. And when, when you talk about jujitsu, it becomes above politics. You could be left or right wing. And if you talk about jujitsu, you bond a

over jujitsu. It's like a common... Have you been workshopping this take? No, no. I don't. But I... That's... I mean, but the idea of like... I like the idea of like the Democratic Party, actually. The DNC... Doing jujitsu?

It's the all-take jujitsu. Yeah. Because I think it might be the answer to, you know, solving the divide in America. Is that we all sort of culminate instead of an election in a martial arts tournament. Yeah. No, not fight it out.

It's just... Jiu-su might be the only common thread that connect left and right, you know. What are you like as a competitor, though, in Jiu-Jitsu? I'm bad. I'm bad at Jiu-Jitsu. I tap early. My whole thing is don't get injured. Don't mess with the moneymaker.

Yeah, don't mess with the money-maker. Tap early. I got no ego of tapping. Women, children, white belts. Everyone taps me out. I have no problem with that whatsoever. I'm just, my goal is mental health, do not get injured. Do not injure.

enjoy anyone else. That's my main goal. In interior Chinatown, there are fight scenes. Ever since I was a boy, I've dreamt of this moment. Practicing. Waiting. I wonder when you were doing those fight scenes, was your jiu-jitsu training helpful? Or no, were you actually throttling what you knew because you weren't a guy who was a jiu-jitsu student? I mean, jiu-jitsu helped insofar as body control, but we were doing, I was like throwing a phone at someone's face. Like, you know, Jimmy was like, like...

Yeah, Jimmy O-Yang. Yeah, Jimi O Yang's in it, Crescent kicking. There's no kicks in jujitsu. But it definitely helped with body control and like knowing how to move. And most of the fight scenes was the stunt guys making us look good. So shout out to the stunt guys. But yeah, I think it's a very cool show and very ambitious. And I hope people check it out and they like it.

Because it's rare to make something original IP like that that's just ambitious. It's based on a bestselling book. Based on bestselling book. So it's free market tested. Books. Yeah, books. If there's anything that we've learned on today's episode, Pablo Tori Fides out, is that we should prioritize books.

Yeah. I seriously doubt anyone watching this clip on Instagram has read a book in the last five years. I'm happy to be proven wrong. Right in the comments, the books that you read. Yeah, sound off in the comments. With the last book you read. I will never see any of those comments.

But it will help the video make some money, which is the point of this. Yeah. I guess. Ronnie, thank you for a session of uncooperative sparring. No problem. Oh, yeah, there you go. See? And thanks for having me on again.

Always great to see you. I'm a huge fan. I've been a fan of yours since college. It's so surreal to actually meet and talk to you sometimes and see you face to face. And I love your writing. I hope you can get back to it. Okay, that's enough, though. I think the point's been made.

Yeah, so I'm beating a dead horseman. But, yes, I love everything you do except for this. Yeah. The feelings are mutual. except I love this. Pablo Torre finds out is produced by Walter Averoma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig,

Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lohman, Rob McCray, Rachel Miller Howard, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, Chris Tuminello, and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems, our sound designed by NGW post. Our theme song, as always,

is by John Bravo, and we will talk to you next time.