Pablo Torre Finds Out - The Golden Age of Scams

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

A.I. valuations make sports franchise valuations look like chump change and the disconnect between American voters and the tech billionaires with a batphone to the White House, has gotten scary. Yet, the plugged-in MS-NOW host Stephanie Ruhle, remains hopeful. Can we summon the power to say "no"? Who will expose the cruelest of scams, even and especially if they involve Tim Tebow? And what was Pablo talking about with Adam Silver at that party? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out, brought to you by Apple Card. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is. When they said, do you think this administration has a corruption problem? They don't, because they don't think it's a problem. Right after this. Did I ever tell you about the time when I went to the dermatologist and it was my husband's girlfriend? Okay, wait, wait, are you? Are you ready for an amazing story? Like, are you?

I don't know if I am, but please continue. Okay, okay, okay, okay. many, many years ago, my oldest child had like a rash or something. And we lived in Tribeca. And I'm like, how are we going to find like a dermatologist, a pediatric dermatologist? And I knew that my husband's college girlfriend and like girlfriend for like a year or two was a dermatologist in Tribeca. And I'm like, can you call her? Can you call her?

Because we would like see her on the street sometime. And he's like, yes, he calls her on the phone. He's like, sure, of course. We'll bring him in. So like the next day, I'm at the dermatologist with my son. And while we're in the waiting room, I'm realizing that I have not been to a dermatologist in years. So we're in there, blah, blah, and while I'm waiting, I say to the nurse, I'm like, oh, like, do you guys see adults here? And she's like, yeah, totally.

And I'm like, oh, great. Like, can I make an appointment next week? At this point, I've never had a skin cancer check. And so I make an appointment. I come back the next week and I roll up and I'm sitting there and I'm waiting. Clearly the doctor said to her nurses, like, that's my ex-boyfriend's wife. Like, what the F is she doing here, right? They walk in and they're like, oh, are you here for like Botox or this or that?

I'm like, no, no, no, skin cancer check. And they're like, skin cancer check. And like, they walk out. Another one comes in. She's like, skin cancer check. And I'm like, yeah. They're like, bring me a robe. They're like, take all your clothes off.

And they're all looking and be like, what? And I'm like, what? So the poor doctor comes in and she's like, skin cancer check? And I'm like, yeah, me not realizing. When you get a full body skin cancer check, they're in there. I mean, next to the person who is delivering your baby, no one is ever in such an intimate place where their eyeballs are in your darkest crevasses, okay? And so I'm now like laying on.

on my stomach, like, spreading every inch of me as I'm turned around and I'm like, oh, my God, I am so sorry. Like, I didn't realize this was the exam. And I'm sure you want to call all your girlfriends right now and be like, my ex-boyfriend's wife is whack, but you can't call them because of the Hippocratic Oath and you're a doctor. So you just have to take it to the grave that your ex-boyfriend's crazy-ass wife is buck naked on a table getting an exam from you. You must think I'm crazy.

I'm really sorry. I had not considered that Andy, your husband, shout out to Andy. That both Andy and the dermatologist in question would both have a similar intimacy with your body. Totally, totally. And clearly I didn't realize what I was getting myself into. Like, I get home, I tell him the story. And the saddest part of the story is... He was into it.

Like, he was not into it. One of my favorite parts of my friendship with you, Stephanie Ruhl, and thank you for being here in person back on the show again. Is it you have no idea what I'm going to say? I have no idea what you're going to say, but inevitably, it involves you in a compromising musician. In a compromising interpersonal dynamic in which I learn a lot more than I bargained for. Yes. And this happened not at the dermatologist's office in Tribeca, most recently with us, but at the New York Times' 175th birthday party. The greatest. Okay, the greatest. Like how excited for you that you walk into a party and the, you can tell them.

So I should say that part of the joke of this evening. which we're going to highlight with this photo of me standing next to NBA commissioner Adam Silver, standing next to the publisher of the New York Times, A.D. Salzberger, standing next to a woman whose body is known to dermatologists throughout the Tribeca area, apparently. Stephanie Ruhl, is that this is the sort of MADLIB that your life is like, by the way? It's my life every day, and it was so good to just suck you into it. Like I walk in and all of a sudden my eyeballs, I see the three of you.

And I'm like, poor Adam, who is the nicest. I should say this. I should say this as a disclaimer. I had only talked to Adam Silver in person once before this. No way. Are you serious? Once before this. It was at the Board of Governors press conference.

Are you lying? At which he was speaking for the first time about the punishment levied by his league. Wait, the week before. That was the first time you were a soaked interview? Yes, days earlier, actually. You're lying. I took the microphone, asked him a question about due diligence incidentally, about how to make sure that the NBA and its teams are not being used by bad actors

to effectively launder the images and reputations of such actors. And he gave, I would say, like, a considered answer about something that he had not been prepped for, I think, ahead of time at that presser. But anyhow, I walk in. to this event, which is in Tribeca. Yes. And it's overwhelming. I mean, it was in New York, who's who.

It was overwhelming to the point of I walk into the elevator. And this is an episode, as always, about six degrees of Stephanie Rule. The person who is in the elevator is literally Kevin Bacon, the patron saint of what a small world. And the doors open. And the first person I see is Adam Silver. Incredible. And the second person I see. out of the corner of my eye, moving at us like a lion,

sizing up, am I going to get to, is you? It was amazing. It was amazing for me. My left eyeball is Adam. My right eyeball is you. And I'm like, oh my goodness, you two must know each other. Like, clearly, you've been saying one another's names a lot over the last 18 months. A lot.

And I reach out my hand and he shakes it. And I, unfortunately, I don't think it's proper to show. share the contents of the conversation that I had with Adam, that you were there for a bunch of it, by the way. I was really happy to be there. But even that picture, one of the reasons that picture is so good, like, somehow, like, the depth of the picture, Adam, who's a really tall guy, does not look tall in that picture. Like, you look by far, like, the biggest person there. And A.G. is just like, wow, look at this happening. Shout out to A.G. Feeling what all five foot 10 of me is like in this frame. Okay, but my point is, you look like 6'3 here. I think.

And there's Adam, who had to be psyched to see you. Well, and you. So I should say that part of what our relationship is like is that you know everyone? Not everyone. You know so many people in the world of sports ownership. You know the commissioner of the NBA, better than I do. You are somebody who is constantly someone I'm asking, do you know this person? And the answer is,

Maybe. I was at a pool party, and I was doing a cannonball, and off in the distance was this billionaire. I happen to love cannonballs, and I like a pool party. I do know a lot of people. I've lived in New York City a long time. I'm not a young woman. Well. I've lived here a long time.

Could have fooled your dermatologist. There you go. But here's one of the fun back of the baseball card things I just got to remind people of, beyond the fact that you host a show on MS now, that in its coverage of money, power, in politics is something that I personally enjoy and sometimes appear on. But your background before television, it involves a superlative. 70 rule was the highest producing credit derivatives salesperson in the United States. I was. I was. What the fuck does that mean? I mean, credit derivatives are basically a levered corporate bond. And when I was very, very young in my career, I was a young girl on a

corporate bond sales desk. And the people who you sell corporate bonds to are huge money managers and insurance companies and hedge funds. And I met a couple of real nerdy guys who were kind of like originators of when credit derivatives began. They taught me how credit derivatives worked. And I went to these big corporate bond sales guys I worked for. And I said, I'm really a little person here. And I don't have my own clients. But if you let me sell credit derivatives to your clients, you can get all that business. They let me do it. I ended up turning it into a business. We would all go out to nightclubs three nights a week, and then in the morning we'd wake up and I'd be their salesperson. And as hard as people say, you know, oh my gosh, it's really hard to be in a business

that's all men. It's not always, it's sometimes great to be the only girl doing it. I think that I need to explain a couple of things. Just like, so a bond is basically a contract for a loan. Correct. And I think in that way, we're speaking now the language of what the fuck's happening in the American economy broadly. And this is the thing. Okay, so let's fast forward to where we are now. Please. And let's even compare the dot-com bubble to where we are with AI. Because the funny thing is, when I first started in banking,

I desperately wanted to work in equities to sell stocks because it was 1997, 1998, like the really exciting time for internet companies. When at the time, like, all you had to say was dot com at the end, and you were like, hot, hot, hot. And now here we are. And I don't mean to be doom and gloom about the economy. or the markets, because obviously the markets have been extraordinary, right? Trump just said yesterday to a groom of reporters.

You all have 401ks. I don't have to know anything about you. Your 401k is doubled in a short period of time. It's doubled. You're twice as wealthy as you were a short time ago, every one of you. And that's because of me. Have a good time, everybody. But what's happening in the world of AI, on some level is so reminiscent of dot com.

And let's be clear, the Internet was the future. But the internet wasn't ready to be the future in 1999. It was ready to be the future in 2005. So now here we are. Okay? And when everyone says the stock market is booming, I invite you to look under the hood. Because... Let's spread it open.

On a dermatologist's... Let's break out the white, thin white paper and lay the U.S. economy right across it. Okay, so here we are. Yeah. And if you actually look at the stock market, Or if you actually speak to Fortune 500 CEOs that run businesses that are not connected to AI, they are struggling. Okay?

Go to a sporting goods store in Texas. Look at a retailer anywhere. Look at tons of more traditional businesses. Their stocks aren't booming. And think about your last two years. You've spent no time, no money on innovation because you've had a war room focused on supply chain and the trade war. And so now here we are with AI.

You now have these AI behemoths quietly delaying their IPOs. Okay? And they're saying, we're going to delay our IPO because, you know, things are moving too fast. What's the term?

It's uncertainty in the IPO market. For that reason, we're going to just put it on pause. So going public is basically spreading it on that doctor's table. That is when every analyst is going to actually examine your financials. Not just say, I'm buying into this AI whiff and a dream, but they're actually saying,

explain your business model. How are you making money? How are you going to make money in the future? Because you don't necessarily have to be making money today, right? Like Amazon, back in the day. But you need to lay out your case for if we invest in you now, how you're going to grow in the future. So I got to say that the very process of going public does have some sort of similarity to like discovery in a trial. Not some comparison. It's a direct parallel. There are data

rooms. There are documents. There is all of the stuff that companies fight to never let the public see because it means that you get to see who we really are. But you just describe something that I've been wanting to do on the show for a while, which is talk about what kind of multiple AI companies have been getting? Because I launched into this when I was talking at first about sports team valuations. Yes. Because with the Lakers,

bought by a couple of guys that you are also familiar with in the world of business, Mark Walter, for instance, and Guggenheim Partners, Todd Bully, who they bought... I know very well, yeah. The Dodgers together. You know these guys.

I want to get to that in a second as well. But the whole point being, you know, 12 and a half billion for the Lakers was like 20X, And it's like, that's crazy, except also that's what's happening in AI. Like the multiples. But AI to an even greater extent. So that's why I wanted to have you explain this. Because you could say the valuations on these teams are insane.

And they're insane when you look at the number. But when you actually then understand the value of sports right now, when you think about how much people care, how they've figured out to monetize it, how they've up premiumed the sports experience, So the average fan can't afford to ever go to a game ever again, but they're monetizing it. So when you see that number, you're shocked and it's horrible. Because revenue is not nearly that big. Correct.

But sports teams are over here in that category. What's happening in this AI space is so reminiscent of dot com of just like, that's the future. Let me jump on. And the scary thing about the financing is all of these giant companies are now just investing in one another. It's the meme that I keep on thinking about that someone posted where it's a surge protector plugged into itself. That's what it is. That's like, look at how protected we all are. Yes.

And so, listen, I do think AI is the future. I'm not wishing ill on any of these companies. But just the he's a Svengali genius isn't enough when Fidelity comes in and says, walk me through this because you want me to buy this company. So Open AI has postponed their IPO. that was going to be a historic event. That is not happening anymore. Anthropic obviously led the charge

in which they want the federal government to cooperate with them so that they can get antitrust exemptions so they can figure out how to protect everyone. Now they're saying, I want you to regulate us. How do they really want to be regulated? Because if you look,

they're just looking for regulations that are going to protect them against getting sued. Or they're looking for regulations that will basically create a regulatory capture or a moat. So if you're the biggest AI company, if you're Open AI, if you're Anthropic,

you can afford to pay for these regulations, but no one else can. And I would liken that to, after the financial crisis in 2007, 2008, they said, we've got to regulate these banks. And they regulated them in a way that if you were a small bank, if you were a community bank, if you're a mid-sized bank,

you couldn't afford those regulations. But if you're J.P. Morgan, if you're the 800-pound gorilla, you might not like hiring another 500 compliance officers, but you can afford to in your sleep. But if you're this tiny little Midwestern community bank, you can't. And we saw those little businesses just get swallowed up in this regulatory capture. And so these behemoth AI companies are like, fine, regulate us.

But the thing that I think is the most interesting or maybe inspiring, is this. We talk all the time about power, and we assume that power is the wealthiest people on earth, the biggest businesses on earth. But look at what has happened in AI and these data centers. Okay? All of these AI companies, they deeply understand business and they deeply understand communications. If they wanted to build data centers here, there, and everywhere, they knew that they needed to go to those towns, meet those communities, build a school, build a library, their case to those communities.

Instead, they're like, I don't feel like doing that. I'm going to write a big fat check to the White House. I'm going to write a big fat check for the ballroom. I'm going to sit next to Trump at the inauguration. There's a bunch of those tech leaders having lunch with him today. And they thought, I'm going to skip over, winning over the American people, because I've got the bat phone to the White House. Right?

And up until just a few months ago, they thought that play was going to work. And it seemed like it was. And by the way, if you talk to the president, it sounds like it would. I mean, even to this day, Trump is like, if you don't want an AI center in your town, that means you want to be poor and you want the Chinese to win. But look what's happened. All across this country, people who love politics, hate politics, never are going to vote have said, I don't understand AI, or more importantly, I do not want this data center in my backyard. The fact that Greg Abbott, who two years ago was like, this will be the home of data centers, currently has a moratorium. On data centers in Texas. Yes, in Texas. And mind you, I have a strong feeling that that moratorium is going to end after the midterms. But this should give the American people hope that power can mean many different things.

And on all these communities, people have said, no, no, no, I have the power to say, I don't want this here. Well, this is the thing that we are always reckoning with on this show, which is that sports, of course, gets shaped by politics, which uses sports for access to voters, for ways to launder its own image. We're talking in the same week that the Senate just passed, the Protect College Sports Act, which is going to also head to the House after the recess is over in which these elections can take place in which we will see the reshaping, perhaps, of the electoral map and the power dynamic behind what is only describable as unprecedented corruption. Correct. When it comes to money going to White House from the most esteemed leaders. of business in the world. But maybe six months ago, I would have said, like, this is a one-way train. I don't know how it ends.

But now here we are. We're 35 days away from the election. The president has a massive multi-hundred million dollar war chest in his super PAC that he could be writing these checks to these people running in the midterms. And it's diminishing. I don't, at this point, what are you going to do give Ken Paxton running in Texas against James Tala Rico? You're going to send him another, a quick $50 million that he can pepper Texas with campaign ads. I don't know that just having the most money is making a difference. And I just think we're seeing it in how the American people are pushing back against data centers and lawmakers are responding.

And this is where we have been deliberately speaking the language of money because we want to always follow the money on the show whenever possible. And also because I think that is a far more winning political strategy. than anything else that I might personally care about when it comes to philosophy or ideology or anything else. This is a story about people, it seems, voters who are recognizing how they are getting poorer as the people who are posting memes as if they're starring in home alone, pushing a hotel. Dan Scavino, White House Deputy Chief of Staff, also perhaps known as like guy posting memes. So Dan Skavino posted over the weekend this shot of basically, I mean, it looked like he could have replaced himself with Lee Notre DiCaprio in Great Gadsby, you know, just surrounded by Glammer Girls popping champagne. Gold everywhere. It's Eric, I think it's Eric Trump behind.

Is that it? But it's just sort of like. It's pushing it. Read the room, bro. And listen, I don't, I don't disagree. Champagne. The wealthiest Americans have become exponentially wealthier in the last two years. the president and his family extraordinarily wealthy,

which is why lots of wealthy people right now, while they don't necessarily like Donald Trump or support Donald Trump, the problem is millions of people in the United States and abroad are saying, I want to break the system. Because there's been lots of surprising elections in Europe, too, where we're seeing more extreme candidates win. And you're saying, oh, my God, what's happening to the electorate?

Are people, like, really going extreme? People are not going extreme. There's senior citizens who are saying, I'm panicked. I can't afford to retire. I don't know if I'm going to have health care coverage in the last quartile of my life. Or they're looking at young people, getting out of school who cannot find jobs or who think, who can't even envision when they'll ever buy a home or people in the mid-level of their life who cannot afford to take their kids to a Steelers game.

Take those three groups of people. Are they extreme when it comes to political motivations? No. But why would any of those three groups vote for the status quo? But where the creep of communism? While, by the way, literally the f*** head of the CCP is at the table with you. It's as though they are banking on the ignorance of the American voter. As always.

So what you're saying, you are threatening, you're panicking the American voter, saying, if you don't vote with us, it's China. Communism is coming. While the people having dinner together, lead the Chinese Communist Party. It is the new group of tech American oligarchs and politicians and some media personalities. And the threat is if you don't vote for us,

communism is coming. It's not coming. It's popping champagne in the White House with you boys. Yeah, I want to describe the table, which is not a metaphorical table, but a table with a photo that we will show. It's like a wedding. And who's at the table at the center?

Who's table number one? It's Donald Trump. It's Melania. It's President Xi Jingpeng. It is his wife. It is good old Tim Apple, Tim Cook, still making it at the table. It's Jensen Wong, the head of Nvidia. You go around the list.

I mean, it goes on, but also nearby is Sam Altman of OpenAI and Sundar Peshai of Alphabet slash Google. Elon Musk is there, of course. Jeff Bezos is there, of course. This is not vague. No, this is not vague. And listen, is it great to have business leaders working with the government? Absolutely. We don't want to have our business and our government having an adversarial relationship.

But the disconnect between this group of people and the American people is so massive. And they're panicked. They're like, we have to protect the status quo because they're coming for us. And I guess I would argue as somebody who deeply loves free markets, I love good capital. Who is the highest producing credit derivative salesperson in the United States? I know. I mean, that's a sexy career. The answer has to be guys somewhere in the middle. Because people who are saying this system doesn't work for me. It's also why you're seeing Democrats who are incumbents who are losing, even if they have a decent record in D.C., just because people are going, nothing's happening in Washington. The current paradigm doesn't work for my life. I want something else. And many of those people voting aren't.

saying, I'm desperate to have the police defunded. I'd love for the borders to be open. They're not thinking about either of those things. And the American dream is no longer something you can contemplate, then American democracy falls into some level of fragility. The story of this election and this administration to me, and our time, frankly, is that we are living in the golden age of scams. For sure.

I don't know if there's a better, by the way, like, a little case study in this than when Scott Jennings from CNN, he goes on this podcast, the fifth column, which is not like a leftist or lefty thing. And they ask him, point blank, do you think this administration has a corruption problem? Which is just like the most elementary question

that describes what we're going through. Does Donald Trump and the Trump administration have a corruption problem? Hmm. Ah. Hmm. That's a very generic question. I mean, is there something pretty simple?

I've given you the easiest possible way. If I get specific, pardons, pardon of a finance guy, for instance, world liberty, financial coins, Russian guys paying for weddings, et cetera. Well, I think they paid him back. But I, but I... Yeah, because it was covered by the media.

Right? No, I don't think so. You think they were like, we'll get you next Tuesday. It became a news story, and then Trump was like they paid them back. I don't think it was going to be... It was a gift.

I mean, all of it, at a minimum, it's kind of gross, right? Like, there's some... There's some taint to it. I'll be canning with you. This is not my social world. I don't necessarily exist in that world. He's generally afforded.

I'm generally, I'm just a son of a garbage man from Kentucky. Scott Jennings just can't bring himself to say the obvious thing. And so he's like ice skating through this, of course, unpersuasively. My point is that guy, Scott Jennings, these surrogates, these administration members, They're not fooling the American people anymore. I'm going to say here's where I disagree with you. Ready for the question? When they said, do you think this administration has a corruption problem?

They don't because they don't think it's a problem. That's the issue. And they're doing it right in front of your face, and they don't think it's a problem. Look no further than Don Jr.'s wedding. Don Jr. is currently worth between 3 and 400,000. million dollars. Yet despite that, the wedding celebration, despite that, he's still like, sure, let's have a Russian crony of Vladimir Putin pick up the tab for my wedding weekend to the tune of 150 grand. And you know it had to stink to the high heavens because even the president was like,

I think he's paid him back. And this is where we got to remind people that there is the money going in and the money going out. And there is also this power, which we've covered on this show, in the pardon economy, in which the president literally has this superpower in which he can keep people from going to federal prison. And so what explains all of this?

What's the endgame? Is what I always think about, right? Like, what's the end game for all these people that are allegedly committing crimes and engaging in corruption and scamming the American people? What's the end game? Money, power politics.

they're using their political power that they currently have and they're monetizing it. And that's why I think everyone is kidding themselves when they think, well, Republicans are turning on Trump. And when John Cornyn loses his primary or when Bill Cassidy loses his primary, Bill Cassidy, who is a doctor, who's going to be so mad when he lost his primary

and so disappointed that he voted to confirm RFK, he's really going to speak out. In Louisiana. Yes. And then when they don't, and we're all baffled, I don't know why we're baffled because the thing that's different in this administration than any previous time in modern politics is the money element. The people in and around Donald Trump's orbit, besides having political power,

are now making tens of millions of dollars through all different ways. And so even if you're no longer going to be in office, you don't want to get off the money train or you want to get on the money train. And so that's why we're seeing people still say nothing. Well, and we're seeing ways to make money in the case of the president, reportedly, more than $1.4 billion from cryptocurrency ventures in his first year back in office,

this is according to his official 2025 financial disclosures, that beyond that very basic fact, and thank God for the paper trail that even gives us that. That we know of. That we know of, because the whole idea, of get on the fucking table, we're spreading it open, you're not actually seeing anything anymore, right? Because you're now dealing in the world of crypto.

You're now dealing in the world of all of these secret ways to hide where the money is going. But what you do see at the White House, as we've talked about on the show before as well, is the Los Angeles Dodgers going to celebrate their World Series victory with the president and Mark Walter breaking out the World Series ring for Donald.

Trump. Because this is the world that we're currently living in. It's if you can't beat them, join them. And can you say, well, Donald Trump is going to smooth things over for him? No, we absolutely cannot say that. But boy, oh boy, if you are any person in these power spheres, it has made business and financial sense for you to cozy up to this president. Because you may not be in hot water today, but you could be tomorrow. And you want to have the people in power in your pocket and Donald Trump is willing to do that. And in the case of Mark Walter under federal investigation, currently for all the things that have been alleged with self-dealing and Guggenheim partners, his partner, when they

bought the Dodgers together, was Todd Bowley. What is Todd Bowley's political sort of position right now with this whole thing? Most of these guys, I don't think they have long-term political positions. I think all of them, no pun intended, play ball. And so I think it doesn't matter who's in the White House. Every person who's in a position of power wants to make sure they can be as close to power as possible if they need it. The difference now is that it's just so readily available with this administration. And an administration shouldn't be were the business administration or were the anti-business administration, right?

So in the last administration, people would argue that Lena Khan was anti-business. She was pure academics and she wasn't practical. And I'm not for against Lena Khan, but I think in all of these examples, we should want strong, successful, prosperous businesses in the United States of America. At the same time, our biggest CEOs should not have a secret bat phone to call a president. I do think increasingly that I am like a Lena Khan Democrat. And I say this in this way. I think that we're living in this golden age of scamps and the idea that there was a Biden

nominee who is going to regulate all of these corporations and therefore validate the continuing credibility of capitalism in the process. Pablo, we keep simplifying it into like, are you pro-regulation or anti-regulation? And that's not the answer. The answer is good regulation, right? I don't necessarily think we need agencies on top of agencies. You could streamline our agencies, but what you can't do is do away with them. right like the whole idea like oh maybe the way we're regulating crypto doesn't make sense so let's get rid of it no that's not the answer

and i actually think that the answer is collaborative you should bring in industry experts you should have task forces but what you shouldn't do is say hey industry insiders why don't you guys write the regulation give us a check and we'll just do that thing i actually think the answer is somewhere in the middle I just pray to God that someday we could find that middle. And I think that politicians don't ever find the middle because it doesn't make for a good political slogan. The other thing I've been meaning to talk to you about, the other thing we often talk about,

whether our audiences appreciate this or not. I hope you're going to say faith. Is our Lord and Savior? Because I'm thinking about all of the costumes politicians wear and that scammers wear. And they wear the costume of sports. They wear the costume of religion. This one hurts me the most.

And this one brings us to the story of Life Surge, which we reported on earlier this week, and the alleged predatory financial classes that have extracted at times tens of thousands of dollars from financially desperate questions. The poorest of the poor people. In many of these cases, who, by the way, were convinced to take out multiple credit cards

at the same time, to pay for these classes in which they would get rich, to take out a loan against the economic, they had in their home. This one makes me the saddest. For those who don't know, that's about as fatal a blow as you could deal yourself, that you're going to take out equity against the one thing that has value and it's your literal fucking house to pay for these classes.

So let's just start with, like you, Jesus is my homeboy. So I'm going to start with, I am a person of faith. There have always been scams. but when you see people get taken advantage of who are participating under the guise of faith or at religious forums or conventions and they're tying it together come to this faith convention and while you're here we're going to tell you Jesus he wants you to be successful and the way you're going to be successful right God will love you more if you are a success and you're going to take these classes to become more successful.

And if you don't have the money, you can have a Jesus Plus credit card where you can pay for these classes. Like to me, did we not forget, like, Blessed are the Meek? When people turn to faith, oftentimes when they are desperate, when they are alone,

and to take advantage of people in those moments, and the thing that's kind of amazing about these scams right now, they've always existed. But now, thanks to the media, thanks to social media or cell phones everywhere, people are getting caught. There have always been famous actors, famous athletes, famous people speaking at lots of these multi-marketing conventions and nobody realized it.

They're getting paid a giant check to speak at some cockamamie convention and then they look the other way and nobody knows. Now, when they try to do it, everyone knows. And so I'm not sure if we're living in the golden age of scams. I think scams have always existed, but they're getting exposed, and I like that. The thing about the sort of faith-based scam in particular that reminds me of this administration to go big picture as well is that it is so antithetical to the religion that they are preaching to do the thing they are doing, allegedly. And it reminds me of how bad an actor. our president is when it comes to even plausibly giving a shit about the God that they're all

at these faith-based meetings praying to. He's not even really trying. He's never really tried. Pablo, it's worse than that, okay? Like, if you think about the phrase, the term family values and how it's been co-opted, family values are about come as you are. Right? They're about love. Love thy neighbor. When you think about how the Pope has been villainized, right? The Pope was a boy from Chicago, okay, who devoted most of his professional life to serving the poor in South America. And now he's one of the most important religious leaders on the planet. Talking about AI and writing about it in incredibly significant ways.

And parts of our government are villainizing him. And I just think it's crazy and sad. All of these people who are seeking community and are doing it in terms of faith because that's where their community lies and they're being hustled and taken advantage of. This is also not something that breaks down super obviously along party lines, by the way.

Like the way that I've been thinking about this and explaining to people is that, and we should disclose this as well, I went Catholic school K through 12, you know, That's how I learned about the world. I was in high school at Regis by the Jesuits who taught me. To choose to live a life in service of others. And to make sure that you read what people who are not a part of the church also are thinking and finding out and researching. The idea of scholarship beyond just like, let's just not drink our own Kool-Aid.

Make sure you go and study. Right? Like that's the very basic premise of why. But lack of studying, right? it's David Rubenstein from Carlisle talks about the dangers or the perils of illiteracy, a population that no longer reads.

Just because we consume self-affirming media does not mean we are an educated country and you need to understand those other than you to actually live in a well-rounded society and I fear that we're not. David Rubinstein, by the way,

the owner of the Baltimore Orioles, which is a separate, a separate story. I don't even have time for at the moment. He just wrote a book as well about all of this. But to your point, Liz, my wife, grew up in the church, grew up Catholic, all that stuff,

but in Boston. So guess what happened during her childhood? Massive sprawling, f***ing molestation scandal in which, not to speak for her entirely, but that made her less enthusiastic about Catholicism. Totally understandable. We get married in the church

because I am the same. son of two Filipino immigrants. And for us to do that, of course, Liz had to finish the sacraments. Oh, she wasn't confirmed. She had pulled out of confirmation in, you know, great school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so got confirmed as an adult. She must have really liked you.

Oh, my God. And so one of the things I had to reckon with was like, why am I making my future wife do this? and of course it speaks to the reasons why I personally still have an affinity for the religion and for the faith and for the God that I grew up relying on, worshiping, that my parents passed on to me, that the Philippines itself, by the way, it is no small irony to me that Tim Tebow was born and raised in the Philippines. His parents, Baptist preachers, were missionaries over there, gave birth to Tim. but the Philippines otherwise

is one of the most Catholic places on this planet. Like, that's the place where sometimes you'll see videos of people nailing their own hands into the cross for Easter. That level of Catholicism. That intensity often.

Anyhow, for me, like, why do I bring up all this? It's because I am not trying to investigate, as has been alleged in numerous places online, that I'm going to start targeting all the God-fearing people. It's the abuse and the scamming of this whole. So the reason it's the most upsetting is because in life, we're skeptical.

And the one place where you see people let their guard down and literally have faith is in a house of worship. So when people are scammed there, I think it's the cruelt. And my hope is that there is a version of being religious that is effectively not obvious to everybody that you as a worshiper might meet. There is the sort of Catholicism that is personal and more private and not ashamed, but just like not trying to convert everybody. And the thing that I'm running into is the particular blend of vulnerability around an evangelical, we want to convert people

as our prime sort of like goal here when combined with the scam. That part feels allegedly predatory beyond what can ever make sense to be. So if somebody loses all their money going to Vegas this weekend, buyer beware. You knew what you were getting into. But to me, to watch,

potential predatory financial scams tied to faith is truly awful. And to you sort of questioning the like, what does this look like and what does religion look like? One's relationship, like faith is the most personal thing. For so many people who don't necessarily have the benefit of parents or community or siblings or friends, it is that. And so it should, it really should be protected, that it should be the last place where people are targeted in terms of financial. financial scams. Like, you know, there's the famous, like, there's a special place in hell for women who don't help women. Yeah, yeah, put that one over here. There's a special place in hell for those who are targeting people coming to religious institutions to find community. Like, you're a whole new level of bad news. And that's what brings us back to the top of this whole hierarchy of a country that is managing always the line between church and state is being presided. over by a president who is only pretending to care about any of that stuff, but not for the

reason of wanting to make everything more Christian, but wanting to profit off of everything, period. Then I would just turn and say yes. Donald Trump, the president of the United States, is he the leader of the free world? Sure. But I'm just not going to be so doom and gloom. We can be the change makers. We have to choose to stand in the light. and people who want things to break are the ones convincing you that this place sucks and everything sucks and tune out.

Don't tune out. Tune in and choose to make this country what you want it to be. But have faith and stand up and don't just complain. Do something about it. Create the country you want to live in. Stephanie Ruhl. You have restored my faith for at least the next hour. I think you're making fun of me. No, I'm not. I think that you are somebody who is incredibly genuine about how this all can get better.

And I want to agree. Then you can choose to be part of it. Tusha. This has been Pablo Torre finds out a Metal Arc Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.