Pablo Torre Finds Out - The Secret Life of the Greatest Mascot in Sports

Episode Date: November 1, 2024

For 33 years, he was paid by the Denver Nuggets not to speak but to entertain — with unparalleled vitality and virality — as Rocky the Mountain Lion. Now, Kenn Solomon breaks his silence, on the bloody, back-breaking work of a very private profession. Plus: Rocky's flu game, his beef with Russell Westbrook... and what it feels like to get knocked unconscious by Charles Barkley. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're going to find out what this sound is. I broke my back one time, doing a dunk right after this ad. You're listening to Giraff Kings Network. So there are some episodes, Ken, that I've been wanting to do forever since before the show launched. And this is one of them. I've been chasing you. You know this. I want people to appreciate this. I've been chasing you. I've been chasing you. you for a while. It's been over a year, yeah. But I guess for people who don't know, your alter ego, Ken Solomon, thank you for being here in studio, by the way. My pleasure. How do you describe what you did for 33 years? I told people for a long time that I played dress-up for a living. I just found, by the way, the other day, I was going through some boxes. I found

my first credential. It says Ken Solomon, entertainment guy. I just made stuff up all the time. I was having fun. That's all technically accurate. Yeah. And yet wildly insufficient for why I've been chasing you for a year. There was a reason why I was paid not to speak for 33 years. So at what point do you reveal your true alter ego?

Right now. I'm going to workshop your cocktail party response to, hey, what do you do? You were the greatest mascot in sports. Wow. Let alone the longest ten-yeared mascot in the NBA, let alone the most athletic, the most memorable, the guy whose highlight reel is as good as any players.

What was your alter ego's name? Rocky. So I just got to jump in here to point out that the presently calm voice of Ken Solomon does belie the wildly kinetic absurdity of his alter ego. Rocky the Mountain Lion. The Spirit Animal of the Denver Nuggets and mascot Hall of Famer,

and documented enemy, by the way, of multiple basketball hall of famers. And Rocky, of course, has never uttered a single word. And so his truly unique acrobatics from the reverse half-court shots to all of the parkurring around the Pepsi Center to the climbing to the roof of the building, All of that is what spoke for him. But the initial spark for this episode wasn't even one of Rocky's death-defying maneuvers. It was an unforgettable bizarre and incredibly viral example of what looked to be the opposite, actually, as you'll see in a bit here. Which is all to say that what I wanted to find out today was the secret life of the human being.

deep inside that suit why couldn't you talk about being rocky for so long? I really lived this character and back when I started there were no real rules about mascots. We were making it up at the time.

It was the Wild West of mascots back then. When I was hired, we discussed this the Nuggets and I and we ended up just deciding, hey, let's keep this mute. I was more for that than they were. And, you know, they hadn't really even thought about it, but I said, I want to do it this way.

I thought it would build the mystique of the character. When Rocky was first introduced, they told the whole story with a news thing. It was a pre-recorded thing, but it looked live. And they said, ladies gentlemen, there's been a big storm. and people all of a sudden got up and left. There were probably about 1,000 people that got up and left the game, literally to go take care of their livestock.

This is like War of the World. When they announced like an alien invasion on the radio, people were like, oh, shit, I got to go, I got to go save my family. Right, that's what they were doing. And the suit, can you describe what it felt like to climb into it? What's the sensation of? of inhabiting it. When I was in college, I was a college mascot as well.

There is a sensation. There is a change that happens. There was a character. There was a personality. There was a, you know, and a lot of what you see is the guy on the inside. That's his personality on steroids. I mean, you're not going to really do anything that's not deep inside you. You push out the personality, and it takes a lot to push that out.

You communicate physically, which I had a history of, you know, growing up that way. My heroes were Shields and Yarnel. They were a couple. They had a variety show. So I started miming when I was a kid because of Shields and Yarnel. The origin story of you, let alone the origin story of Rocky, these are stories that trajectories that converge. because you being obsessed with, essentially, with miming, and the question of how do I get to express myself without speaking?

You know, for me, it was, I was terrible in school, and I always thinking outside the box, and I was at a baseball game in Las Vegas, the Stars baseball game, and the San Diego chicken was there. And it just clicked for me. I'm doing that. I'm doing that. How did your parents react when you said,

I want to be the San Diego chicken one day? They were all for it. They were always pushing the boundaries themselves. My dad was a cheerleader in high school and in college. I mean, he taught me how to repel when I was 11. When I was eight years old, he let me and my brother and my sister hike across the Mojave Desert by ourselves, 110 miles.

Jesus. They were very supportive. My dad built and my mother sewed my high school mascot costume. So this is a family business in a sense. This was a production that everybody got to support it. Yeah. Is a pretty unique bit of wiring for someone who becomes the longest-handed mascot in NBA history who cannot talk. I literally felt more.

comfortable in his skin than my own. When did the degree of acrobatic ambition enter the picture? Because Rocky, to me, is synonymous with the batch crazy stuff that you would do, which I believe to be unparalleled. And there's some amazing mascots in sports. Amazing. But the stuff that you would do, I want to run through some of it because did you design that's the stunts how did that become key to what you were a lot of trial and error a lot of the

collaborating that i did around the office uh surrounding myself with good assistants uh we did a half time one time that was the okay go video with all the treadmills yes my assistant was like hey man how how big can we go and pretty soon he had what, eight treadmills being delivered? Which of the stunts was the hardest one? Get set, go! I had this thing where I'd climb. I was always trying to take things to the next level.

You loved climbing. He's going all the way up. So I would climb up to the top of the arena, and I said, how can I push this? How can I take this to the next level? Well, I found that there was a door at the very top of one of the sections that went, out on to the top of the building.

So I thought, what if I run from center court, climb to the top, go out the door, clip in, repel down the side of the building, unclip, run back through the hallways, get back to center court in one break. I didn't get to center court, but I got to the edge of the court. Like during a timeout? During a timeout. Yeah. Good God.

Yeah, that was exhaust. Other mascots weren't doing this shit. You know that. Yeah. At a certain point, it felt like you were just challenging yourself. I was. I was. I wasn't in competition with anybody else.

It was just what's something fun, crazy that you wouldn't normally think of doing? Right. It's like, okay, I could shoot from half court or I could do it backwards. Just absurd. I mean, at one point, like, you mastered roller skating. I was roller skating since I could walk. Of course you could. Yeah.

You wrote a motorcycle? Which was your favorite? Which was the one that you are like, this is, if I have one highlight that I want to be remembered for it is this one. Stuff with Charles Barkley? Amazing. Amazing. That was magic. How did that start?

What's the origin story of your feud with Charles Parkley? Okay, so at the time, Charles was, he was the bad guy. He was, you know, he was making news off the court. He was throwing people through windows. One game, as he's, you know, walking around. I kept taunting him a little bit, like, you know, hey, you know, throwing a little jab as I walked by. Right, pantomime.

Yes, yes. Like a boxer's stats. Yes, yes. and then I finally later in the game drew a line in the sand so to speak on the court and he's like stops he looks at me he's like yeah it's cool man all right come on come on no come on let's shake on this let's shake oh okay great yeah i walk over shake his go to shake his hand he grabs me pulls me in boom pops me in the face and literally my knees buckle, I'm out. Dinged me for just a second.

The next thing I remember is the referee standing over me saying, get off the court. We're trying to play professional basketball. Right, right. And the unconscious body of this mountain lion is in the way. Yeah, he thinks I'm just, you know, playing it up. Right, doing a bit. Yeah.

I go back in my room, take the head off, and I'm looking in the mirror, and my lower lip is just quivering because my nose is bleeding, my tooth is loose. I've got, my lips are bleeding. He hit me. And I thought, is he really that guy? It just didn't ring true to me.

So I collected my thoughts for a second. I go, you know what? No, I need to find out. I need to find out now. I need to find out tonight. Get me my stilts. I yelled to my assistant. Give me my stilts.

Get my stilts. Get my stilts. He's like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm going out there on my stilts. I'm going to find out how far he's going to take this. Let's go. I go out there and I stand next to the huddle almost. Like I stand next to the bench.

I get near the bench. And then I'm doing the Fred Sanford, you know, thing. You know, come on, come on. And sure enough, he walks over, looks me up and down, and goes for my crotch. Sir Charles. Disqualified for delivering the low blow with his forehead. But he doesn't hit me. You know, doesn't make contact, makes it look like it.

And, oh, I stumble and I grab my crotch. And I'm like, oh, this is, whoa, you know. But I knew right then he gets it. This guy gets it. So the very next game, I said, this is what I want to do. I want to full on set it up like it's a fight. Yep. Of course.

Of course, my guys were like, no, no, no, no. You're not doing that. Nope. They said absolutely not because the chances of him actually doing something with you, nil. Oh, they doubted. They doubted your scouting report having just gone through this very unique bonding ritual. Yeah. With Charles Barkley.

I said, no, no, no, no. You don't understand. I absolutely know he will come out. He will punch me. He will do something. There will be an altercation, and I'll take it. Round one, Charles quickly drops Rocky to the hardwood. Who said anything about a fair fight?

Sure enough, he walks out, jumps up in the air. Boom. It hits me in the face. I turn like a tree going down. Wham! You are so thrilled, recounting the story of how Charles Barkley kept punching you in the face. Oh, it was on after that. I mean, like literally he would stop in my room after that.

You know, game after game, what are we doing tonight? Has any other player embraced your calling the way that Barclay did? Shaq was great. I was at the Hall of Game Awards. The Hall of Game Awards, my Cartoon Network. I was up for Most Awesome Mascite. So I was on stage with he and Nick Cannon In California

An incredible Madlib so far And there was, you know, there was all kinds of stuff on The stage was built for There was, you know, bicycles and there was a, you know, foam pit And when I won, I ran over and I jumped in Shack's arms And I said, throw me in the pit, throw me in the pit He's like, what? Throw me in the pit!

I'm being held underneath my armpits and he tosses me like I was a little kid. I literally giggled as I'm flying through the air. It was a flashback of when my dad would throw me in the pool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the craziest feeling to have this massive man tossed me like I was a little child. It was awesome.

But that's the through line, the emotional through line, it seems like through your whole career, is that you're chasing, a feeling that only children typically get to experience. Yeah. Was there anybody who hated your guts? Players who are like...

Yeah, Russell Westbrook. Yeah, feelings mutual. Explain Russ's attitude towards you. I don't... He's pretty intense. I've noticed, for far. Yeah. Yeah. I was throwing a half-court shot one time,

He just goes out there and blocks it. You've missed it. Rocky takes his half-court shot. Westbrook intercepting it twice. And then threw it into the crowd. Oh, I just stared at him, pointed at him all the way off the court. Like, yeah, dude, it's on now. And then, yeah, personally, I approached him later.

That did not go well. Oh, wait. As Ken or as Rock? Yeah, personally after... As Ken Solomon. Yeah, a couple weeks later. And how did that conversation proceed? There was no conversation.

I wanted to, like, laugh and joke with him about it. Yeah, he was not going to even talk to me. Wow. Yeah. What an asshole. Glad you said that. I didn't say that. Russell Lesbrick, I do need to point out here, is now on the Denver Nuggets?

You just signed there in July? and, you know, there's no word yet on whether Russ also wants to knock Rocky out, like Charles Barkley once did. But this does bring me back around to my initial curiosity about this foam mountain lion, which was an admittedly hilarious viral clip that I've been sending to my friends for years now. You can see Rocky being lowered from the ceiling, ostensibly repelling here, except he is visibly limp, seemingly unconscious, honestly, except for his enormous white eyes,

which happily remain, as always, wide open. When I finally looked at the footage of that, I was like, oh, I just cringed. Yeah, that really did look bad. What happened, Ken? So, I had practiced this bit. I wanted to come down. act like I was landing on the moon type of thing. We'd practice this, get in position.

I'm clipping this harness on while, and I've also got the full body harness underneath. They put the rope through my collar, clip in, go, go, go. They open the gate, step out on the eye beam, go, go, go, step off the eye beam. And all of a sudden,

I realized my jacket was zipped up. I was supposed to unzip it. So if you can imagine the rope going through your collar. You're pantomiming a noose right now. Yes, yes. And all of a sudden, that collar is just digging into my neck. It was the collar. It was the collar.

What a thing to find out on this show. It was the collar. It was the collar. Yeah. And all I thought was, that hurts so bad. Oh my gosh, that is cutting in. my neck oh my gosh that hurts ow i cannot wait to get down that was it that was the last thing you remember yeah i mean i was out that fast oh wow it was like a full-on like m-ma chokehold out and the next

thing you recall after that is what i woke up on the cord it's all black and i hear so faintly and it starts getting louder rocky are you okay and then all of a sudden it just goes wow like it's just came all of a sudden loud and my eyes were opening and I hear really loud, Ken, are you okay? And I jumped up, slapped my guy on the back right there and said, I'm going to go in the back. Took off from this. Yeah. So this is where I feel obliged to remind you that Rocky the Mountain Lions human identity was kept secret by rule for more than 30 years, more than 30 years. Okay. That is how seriously. some pro sports franchises, take mascot culture.

And so Ken's culture, which was older than any other mascots in the history of pro basketball, was in fact his costume. As much as anybody in sports history, Ken Solomon was a method mascot. Which also means, it turns out, that he was kind of a professional athlete himself. Your job was to not let people see the man. inside. Right. Right. Which was a duty, a sacred duty that you treated with, of course, all of the gravity of like, this is part of the deal. Yeah. People always ask, well, what, you know, what if you were sick? What if you got hurt? It's not an option. There's no, there's no, we had, I had no backup at the

time, you know, forever. I broke my back one time doing a dunk. Broke my back. Made my way off the court before I collapsed and I was out for eight weeks. Jeez. L3 and four. Jesus Christ. Yeah, shattered from a dunk. Was it worth it? Heck yeah.

I mean, for years and years and years, for the next 20 years. Hey, man, I remember when you broke your back. You good still? people don't even know that half the time I was on an IV after a game or breaking down just sobbing after a game because I gave everything. I gave everything. I hadn't considered the idea that for a player, of course, we're used to seeing them, you know, famous photographs of Kobe Bryant, sobbing, Michael Jordan, sobbing, they win the finals, they win the title, and they're on the floor sobbing. Finally, a release. I did not appreciate that for you as Rocky, as an NBA mascot, your championship would not necessarily be the literal championship. It would be seemingly a random night in the winter maybe when you pulled off something that no one had seen before and almost killed yourself to do it. And seemingly, of course, you had no choice for it, but to be private. Privately, you got to finally like release what you have.

had been essentially penning inside yourself. My son found some footage the other day that he had taken some years ago where I was doing the nutcracker. Please explain? Tites, the two-two wig, fairy wings, and, you know, Rocky's introduced as the sugar plum fairy. The bit is, go out there. run around

I you know grab referee's butts and you know flit around and there's a balance beam on the court that has been brought out I end up getting up on the balance beam doing this little thing and then at the

crescendo I drop on the beam straddling it and then slowly fall off to the side bam laying on the ground grabbing my crotch and the announcer says Ladies and gentlemen

Taste comes apart I walk You know stumbling and And get back to the curtain I come out of character at that point Walk back to the room Take off The head

And the footage is me just hacking and coughing And I've got And I remember Oh my gosh I got 104 fever I was so sick. You know, nobody knows that. That was your flu game.

Yeah, that was... Except instead of, you know, scoring a zillion points, you dropped your testicles onto a balance beam and then proceeded to privately hack up the contents of your respiratory system. Yeah. That was... That was the norm, though. I didn't have, you know, I didn't have...

There was no backup. I underrated. even as a fan of your work from afar, the degree to which your life has been an athlete's life. With injury and recovery, your existence was pressurized in the way that a public performer's career was on the court, but largely conducted in secret

because no one actually knew because you couldn't say it, verbalized it, what was happening in there. It was a good thing, though. I could still go to the grocery store and overhear people talking about, you know, they saw Rocky do this. It was great to be a fly on the wall a lot of times.

But I imagine, right, I imagine as someone who does a job that is very explicitly, here I am, here's my name in the show, here's my face. I would find it frustrating. The idea that people only know

the alter ego. They don't know the person inside. And it sounds like you made peace with that, but I'm wondering when it wore on you, the idea of I'm also, I'm also me. To be honest with, yeah, there were times when I was, I was frustrated with what was being reported in the media. One of the most, I would say, unique news cycles in basketball media was, I mean, certainly around what Rocky. got paid. Oh, yes.

Dun-ton. Can we fact-checked this? Oh, you can... Yeah, you can try. Well, look, what was reported was that Rocky was making $625,000 a year. This now, given the larger context of every store you've told me, feels like you were underpaid. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

But what can be said about this because this sparked all sorts of conversation around like what people who didn't know what it is that you did and for how long and what it cost you, your body? People are like, this is insane. Are all mascots paid this way? How did that all feel to you? It was interesting. You know, the nuggets, they help me raise my family. And so I'm either going to confirm nor deny that. Wow.

But the nuggets were good to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just like how the guy who almost killed himself falling off of the top of a building was like, this one I'm going to play very carefully. This is the bridge too far. Yes, yes. I'm going to keep that one right here. What are the other things that frustrated you when it came to things that were reported in public

that made you think, if only I could. could speak if only people did know that Ken was in here. Well, there's one out there that is, you know, Rocky went to a Republican rally or whatever. I'm like, wait, I got hired for an appearance and it was actually before the rally and it was just, you know, Rocky there warming up the crowd. You know, of course, the media spun that and took it sideways. What political party is Rocky registered with? Can.

Right. This is what I've come to find out. Oh, my God. What is Rocky's voting records? I'm like, well, wait a second. Come on, you guys. Anybody that pays, I'll go to their rally. I don't care.

You know, whatever. Rocky does not endorse this message. You will, though, do some backflips. Right. There you go. And I followed the rules that were set out by my company. Look, don't, you know, don't take a picture with any politicians. don't, you know, make sure you're gone before the rally starts.

You know, this is, you know, so I did all that. You're a pro. What do people not understand from the outside about this line of work? What's the number one thing to you that feels egregious that people are just missing when it comes to what you did? That there's an actual person in there. When did that get the most frustrating? Oh, man, how many times are you going to pull my tail?

How many times do I have a parent say, go pull his tail, go pull his tail, go pull it? What a mascot is and does, I guess, is a mascot is the person that everybody wants to be but can't be or gets to do what everybody wants to do but can't. So they think that they can do whatever they want to a mascot as well. You're like the god of rambunctious children. Yeah.

Well, hold on. on, in fairness to them, I think they're trying to do what you did to Charles Barkley. They're thinking, we, I thought this was fair game. Right. Yes, a lot of times, they think it's fair game. But you reacted with the sentiment of an actual mountain lion, it sounds like, who had its tail pulled. You're like, no. Or I would just swing my leg back and give them a swift kick.

Don't pull that. Well, that's the other part about being a match. I imagine, is that like you can also get away with some stuff. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. As long as you pull it off the right way. How does one pull off beating up a fan the right way? Because I've seen you hit some fans with pies, with some cakes. What's the key? What's the key to threading the needle of I am doing something to someone and they're liking it? They don't necessarily need to like it. You just have to do it the right way. So, for example, inevitably, every game, you know, Rocky, get out of the way, Rocky, you suck.

You know, that type of thing. I would be like, oh, man, come on, it's okay. Come on. You and me, we're pals, let's go. Come on, give me some. So I'd reach out, I'd grab their hat. What was the best was when we were on the upper level, and I could send it down to the lower levels. My assistant runs and gets it, or the people throw it back.

to them or whatever. Eh, but I got a little, got a little something in on them. It had to feel good. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you can't really go, I mean, you can't go ham on anybody. Although I do enjoy the fact that you basically have a license in an NBA building that no one else does. Yeah.

You are doing things by virtue of your occupation that would get everybody thrown out immediately. Yes. Like grabbing a player's butt. What's the art of grabbing a player's butt? Have some character. Don't just do it. It's the whole build-up. It's the whole ending.

You've got to have a whole... Anything that a mascot does, if you're a good mascot, you're telling a story constantly. Telling a story. I panced a player one time while he was about to end down the ball. Was he in on it?

No. I love that you were perpetually... Again, as this athlete metaphor continues to crystallize from me, you were perpetually heat-check. Oh, yeah. You're like, I could get away. I could, this is going to work.

Yeah, yeah. Who did your pants? I don't know. You don't even remember. This is incredible. You don't remember. Yeah. It was, that's so funny to me.

Yeah, got a fine for that one. Got a lot of fines. Who finds you? The NBA. The NBA finds you. Yeah. What's the damage like on these fines? Ah, anywhere between five and seven.

Do you have any idea how much money you lost to fines in your career in the NBA? Wow, no. It would equal probably around 50,000. Somewhere in that neighborhood. Again, it sounds like it was worth it. Every minute. By the end, were you ready to stop doing it? Were you ready to stop putting on the suit?

I always wanted a, you know, deep inside. I wanted to write off in the sunset, you know, but I never knew what that could look like. But as it turned out, you know, my last game was, it was filled with a whole lot of confetti. The first title in franchise history. So the climax of your career of the Nuggets as a franchise seems cosmically faded in retrospect then. It's been 47 long years. But because of the guys and the girls on this stage and because of you, everyone out here, we're world champion. I thought, you know what?

Isn't this typical of my career? It just, it was magic. I was in awe in a lot of ways, a lot of times of what was going on. And then, you know, all of a sudden, you know, to end it with that storybook ending, I just thought it doesn't get any better than that. Rocky was my best friend. Is that how you see it? As a friendship?

Yeah. I relied on him. If it wasn't for Rocky, I don't know where I'd be. I went through some depression times where if I didn't have to get in costume. I don't know. I honestly, I don't know where I'd be. I'd go put that thing on and be able to escape. I never escaped with alcohol or drugs or anything like that.

That was my drug. Rocky was my drug. And I would go out, get the endorphins going for myself. But then also to be surrounded by smiles, I could make it through another day. Yeah. So it was a trip. explain the line of succession here explain how that has worked as you've been trying to negotiate

and figure out well what happens to to me now to us now yeah um can't really go into too many details about about the succession uh other than you know he's in good hands and i'm not i'm not too far removed. I was never under the assumption that I would ever, you know, own Rocky or that Rocky was mine or, or anything like that. I was, it was a opportunity for me to do what I love, get paid well for it. I got some good advice along the way from like Mark Randall. Mark Randall played for us, ended up being my assistant. Former NBA player, former Nugget. Yes. Mark Randall. Yes. He played with Michael Jordan. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Bulls, the Timberwolves, the Pistons, the Nuggets. Great guy. He one day has to put me in my place and say, you know,

you need to understand this is going to end at some point. And like any player, understand that, you know you've been doing this long time more than any any player but at the same time it's temporary and it was good advice at the time it was great timing on it and i started preparing for the afterlife what is the afterlife of ken solomon like having gone through his first death so to speak what's it like on the other side so far it's it's a little bit of rediscovering and at the same time at a breath of fresh air and realizing that that's not me and I'm okay I had so much attitude and swagger and things like that where you know these other characters are are it's different but it's okay

I don't think I'll ever I mean I'm pretty much sure that I'll never develop anything like that in that way again but it's okay anything you want to say at the end here to Charles Barkley, wherever he may be? You're going down, punk. It ain't over. It ain't over. Those guys have been so fun in the finals. He and I did a little jersey exchange.

Sir Charles will now present Rocky with a sign Phoenix Suns jersey, and Rocky will present Sir Charles with a game won jersey from the 1990s. And I got to punch him one last one last. jab in on him. That was awesome. I'm just glad you both remain conscious. Yes. Yes.

And no bloody lip. Yes. It has been really good to meet your best friend. It's even better, Ken Solomon, to finally meet you. So thank you so much for doing this. Thank you. My pleasure. I'm honored.

This has been Pablo Torre finds out a metal arc media production. And we are produced by Walter Averoma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Loman, Rob McCray, Rachel Miller-Howard, Ethan Schreier, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Chris Tumenello, and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems,

our sound designed by NGW Post, our theme song, as always, by John Bravo, and we will talk to you next time.