Pablo Torre Finds Out - The Son Also Disguises: How a Kid Reporter Conned the Sports World

Episode Date: June 14, 2024

On one level, standup comedian Gary Vider’s childhood was a dream come true. He and his father, Manny, had virtually unlimited access to some of the biggest games and athletes and celebrities in the world. The only problem is that the whole thing was built on a complete lie. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is. As I got older, I'm like, well, you're putting so much effort into these lies. You could have done that in an honest way, too, and still been successful. Right after this ad. You're listening to Draft King's Network. Okay, so at the risk of stating the very obvious, pro athletes don't really love being interviewed by journalists these days. They find the questions exhausting.

and or clickbaity. And they also all have their own podcast now anyway. And so having to deal with a reporter like me is annoying. But there is one exception. Finally tonight, one of the young stars of Super Bowl Week isn't a player, but he is America Strong. What's up, dude? My name is Jeremiah.

11-year-old Jeremiah Finnell stealing the show during Super Bowl Week. I'm a big fan. selected by the NFL network as their youth sportscaster. What is the offensive game plan? What is the hardest part about going against the Chiefs? I started to do this at the age of seven years old because I wasn't able to play sports due to some medical issues, but I still like the sports environment,

so I decided to hold my craft in journalism at the age of seven. Oh, my goodness, amazing. Jeremiah Fennell got into sports reporting at age seven, and you know him because he goes viral all the time, like at the Super Bowl earlier this year, because he has exhaustive research and wildly precocious questions, and so all of these athletes and celebrities are impressed. But the thing about Jeremiah is that he's also not alone anymore.

Because, yes, adult reporters are getting boxed out of locker rooms and are only vaguely tolerated at pressers at this point. But we have been witnessing what I call a golden generation of kid reporters. Kid reporters, who are everywhere. What's the most expensive gift you ever bought? I bought my girl Louis Vuitton back. That's probably the most expensive thing I bought. Did she like it?

Yeah, she better have. She didn't have a choice. She didn't have a choice. She better have liked it. I can drop on command. Can you? No. You don't need to show me either.

Sometimes I don't like it. But you said you have a party. What is a party without a cake? We would have ice cream. And all this made me wonder how long the occupation of Kid Reporter has even been a thing. And it does seem to be a thing specifically in sports. Kid reporters aren't getting credentialed at like, you know, trials and Senate hearings. They're going to games.

All of which is how I eventually stumbled across the story of a child, a truly adorable, unassuming child, who I now consider to be a pioneer in the field of kid reporting. And this child's name is Gary Veder. Gary is now an adult, obviously, in his early 40s. You might actually recognize him as an accomplished stand-up comic. But in order to understand how this whole thing started, how this whole occupation really began, what I first needed to do was ask Gary Veter about his father,

an accomplished con artist named Manny. And so Manny Veder looks like what carries himself how? Carries himself very confidently. You know, he walks into a room and he can make people laugh. He is very trusting when you talk to him. When was the first time your dad used your harmlessness? You're seeming innocuousness to his personal advantage. The first time that I remember is when we would go to the movie theater,

we'd see the movie for free because he would have me sneak in under the ropes. And then he would tell us. the usher. Hey, my son is down over there by like the, by the theater doors and he has our tickets. And it was a plan that my dad devised. I mean, it's simple, you know, sneaking into movie theaters. People do it all the time. But this was just at five years old. My dad was teaching me, all right, this is how we have to do things. And by the way, we weren't seeing any movies that I wanted to say. I was going to ask. Yeah, they were all his. I mean, I saw Rambo one, two and three when I was like, you know, between the ages of like five to like eight with my dad. I saw child's play

when I was like, you know, like six or seven. So I'm just. I'm just. I'm just. I'm I remember seeing that in the theater with my dad. So it was all movies that he was like really wanted to see. And I was like, oh, all right, I'll go along. This is what my dad wants to do, you know, this bonding moment with my father. Yeah. And what was he, I mean, did you do like Little League stuff together? Oh, yeah.

So Little League, first of all, I wasn't a good Little League player, but I was on every All-Star team because of my father. So there wasn't an All-Star team I wasn't on. How does one con Little League in Long Island? And that way was just, you know, he would be familiar with all the coaches. So being friendly with them is like that's how you get your kid on. And I mean, a lot of people could do that. But eventually, when I didn't have the skills, my dad became the coach.

And that's how it would get on. So he was coaching the Little League. And there came a time where there was a theft in the Little League for sports equipment. And there was a bunch of missing bats, missing gloves and things like that. And I never thought anything of it. But then maybe it was, I want to say, a few months to maybe a year later, we were over visiting my cousin in Maryland. And for a gift, my dad gave him this bat.

And the bat was from the Half Hollow Hills Little League. And I was like, I mean, it's literally, it's printed on there. It seems like that's something that he would have done. So I stopped playing baseball. Basically, my dad was just too much. So I'm like, I started playing hockey and I found a passion for hockey. And my mom, she would take me to early morning practices. And I started getting a coach and I joined some teams.

And then when my dad saw that I was decent at hockey, hockey was the sport that I was the best. that. And he then came on board. And this, he kind of turned my hockey career into a business because he started recruiting players from different cities and different states, the best players. So he would have us go to different tournaments. And his scam in this was, I mean, yes, he was putting it together, but he was completely overcharging these parents to a point where, you know, a hotel is 150 bucks a night. But, you know, he's charging them 350. And it's like he's making money off of this and then I would watch parents get very angry at my father and here I am just a kid who's 11, 12 years old. I want to play hockey but I'm seeing my dad getting yelled at by parents whose kid I'm

friends with and you're like, oh God, I could only imagine the things that they were saying in their car rides home about my father and it just like, you know, it gives you a bad look and these are the things where I'm like, I just want my dad to be a regular parent. And also, as you might imagine, Gary still feels this way. He still wants his dad to be a regular parent. It's a fundamental desire that has only grown over time to the point where Gary recently started his own podcast, called Number One Dad,

in which he tries to resolve this specific issue. It is also the thing, which inspired him to come to terms with the whole reason I wanted to talk to Gary in the first place, which was to relive the true story of their biggest scam yet. He saw an opportunity to take me to games by calling up Madison Square Garden,

saying that we worked for Sports Illustrated for kids, that a photographer and a reporter would be going. He would act as the photographer with a nice camera. I would go with a pen and a pen as a reporter, and he arranged where we would have press passes waiting for us when we arrived to Madison Square Garden, and they opened up the doors for us. So my dad and I, the first game we ever went to was a Knicks first Bucks game.

And we tried it there and got into the locker room and then never looked back after that. Okay. So something you should know up top here is that Sports Illustrated for Kids was an actual magazine that was staffed by actual adults. I know. A little disappointing. Pretty crazy. But, you know, issues had these perforated trading cards. cartoon characters and stuff. Shout out to Buzz Beamer. All of it was put there by grown-ups. And I, occasionally, was one of them. You see, back in my 20s, I worked at Sports Illustrated,

the grown-ups version. And we shared an office with SI for kids. And so they would occasionally send me on assignments. I once interviewed Ken Griffey Jr. and his son, Trey, for instance. And that was really fun, because it was always fun. These interviews always felt easier than they should. should have been, because all these athletes loved talking to an audience of kids. And so on this level, I could actually understand the logic of many Veter's plan for his son, Gary,

as insane as it was. Because, yeah, SI for Kids could just cut out the middleman in these interviews. Essentially, me. Do you remember that day when this is proposed? Like, what happens? How does this all origin? night. I remember like, you know, we were going to that this Knicks first Bucks game back in the 92-93 season and we've gone to games before at this point, whether it would be a New York

Islanders game because I grew up on Long Island, but my dad, he didn't have tickets this time. So we drive to Madison Square Garden. I didn't necessarily know what was happening. I knew that we didn't have tickets and that my dad said, you say, you know, if you want to meet the players, this is what we're going to be doing. We're going to be doing. We're going to be going in as sports literature for kids, just follow my lead. So he comes to you with this fully formed strategy. You guys aren't like workshop, obviously you're a kid, but he's not like sort of thinking out loud about this.

He comes to him, he's like, this is what we're about to do. Right. Like as a comic, I'll think about my set all the time. It seemed like he didn't even think about it. He was just ready to go. Like if you put him in front of, you know, somebody and he had a lie, he could lie right away. He could make up anything about anything.

Describe you. What are you like in 92? So at 92, I was about to be in fifth grade, and I had a bowl haircut. I wore turtlenecks, were baggy clothes. I had a look where people would be like, oh, this is somebody I would just help out, especially like an adult. And that's kind of like something my dad used to his advantage. And so for people who have not even been, let's say, in the bowels of a basketball arena,

again, you're a kid, and now you're, what are you seeing? Can you describe the feeling of like what's happening on this first time? I mean, right away, it's like we're greeted at the garden because, you know, you're press. So you get your press pass. And were you going as Gary Veter? I was going as Gary Veter. And my dad, I don't know why, he would just use an alias and say that he wasn't my father. So I, and that's the part that always like, at the beginning, I was like, okay, whatever.

I mean, if this is how it works. But eventually I was like, can you just say that you're my dad? I mean, I think it's weirder to say that you're not my dad. But it's like, but I get, he just loved lying. And he had several different aliases. I was going to say, do you remember the aliases? He changed his name from Manny, Mani Vita to Manny Wolf or Michael Wolf or who changed his name to Emmanuel Wolf.

It was just like things like that where it's just constantly switching around. And Wolf was my mother's maiden name. So it's like, you're just these like catchy things where you're like, oh, I guess that's how you make an alias, but that's how he did it. Okay, so just another thing you should know, I think, about this whole thing. scheme, is that I do find it terrifying. Because while it's true that Madison Square Garden in the 90s didn't have its current AI-driven facial recognition surveillance system, this was still akin to trying to infiltrate the

sports death star. There were security guards everywhere. There were cameras everywhere. There were paranoid PR stormtroopers everywhere. And their entire job was to follow. reporters around. But Manny Veter slash Manny Wolf was a professional. Clearly, he had a protocol. He would buy whatever electronic camera equipment that he needed from B&H photo video, which was a store right near the garden. And he would go up and deliberately charm the phalanx of security

guards. But most crucial of all, Manny Wolf always made sure that he, the adult photographer, and little Gary Veter, the kid reporter, always split up once the game started, never once sitting together. Because this wasn't a father and a son situation. No, these were working journalists. We started just going to games and constantly meeting the team, and then I would go and become very familiar with, like,

the security guards and everything. and by the time, like, we got to, like, the, I would say the 93-94 season, the Knicks and the Rangers were, they're at their height. I mean, it was the best teams that, you know, both of those franchises have had in years up to that point. And, I mean, even still. And I would just go and meet, like, Ewing and Oakley and John Stark. What are those interactions like?

I mean, a lot of it was, like, I would interview them, but it would also be I was there to get autographs. So, I mean, the goal was, To get autographs. Like, I mean, that was everything. Like, acting like a Sports Illustrated for Kids reporter was to get us in the door. But the whole point was to get autographs, which is what you're not supposed to do. I was going to say, the number one rule of journalism, I suppose, would be you're not there to get autographs.

Yeah, which I think you guys should get autographs. But, yeah, that was my whole goal. And as a kid, you could get away with it. And the other key part of this, right, is that your dad is there, not saying he's your dad, but he has a camera. He was just there to take pictures and he would kind of point me in the right direction and make sure that I was going to get to meet the people that I wanted to meet and everything.

Which is to say, though, that not only do you have autographs, you have photographic evidence of all of this happening. Some of them, like when I met Shaq, I didn't even interview him, but I came with a, I had a goal of getting a basketball sign, then a card sign. And when I gave Shaq the card, that was the second thing I asked him to sign.

And he was like, please, don't ask me to sign anything else after this. He was the nice guy, like he signed two things, but it's like, yeah, to a point, it's like, you got two things. Like, enough is enough. Right. It's like, I get the sense that you're running now a memorabilia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Car shop, right. Yeah. But I'm looking at some of these photos, like the Mario Lemieux one. Yeah. So the Mario Lemieux one, that was a celebrity golf association back in the day. I don't think they have it anymore. But they had a tournament on Long Island. And all these

athletes, my dad found out that they were staying at this Marriott Hotel. And I think it was right across from where NASA Coliseum was. The Celebrity Golf Association's first ever Long Island event has drawn a number of top performers from the world of sports and entertainment, both past and present. They aren't just named swinging golf sticks.

And my dad, he knew that I wanted to meet Mary Lemieux, and he called up the hotel to say that he was Mary Lemieux chauffeur just to confirm the time that he was going to come down. And once he had that time, he then reserved this banquet hall that was in the

in the hotel. So he knew Mary Lou was coming down, knew, had this banquet hall secured, and then he called Mary Lemieux to say that Sports Illustrated for Kids was there and said the time that was just what he thought would be convenient for Mary Louie to now do an interview before his tea time. And I was able to interview Mary Lemieux just one on one. Right. And I see you in this photograph. You're wearing a white, it says the CGA, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, so he called the CGA and told him Sports Illustrated for kids was coming. So they rolled out the red carpet as well. Yeah, you have the white CGA t-shirt.

You have the CGA cap. And, yeah, Lemieux's large hand is on your very small right shoulder. Yeah, and I was so pumped to meet him. And, yeah, I got two cards signed by him. So, yeah, everything that I wanted it to be. What were you asking? I mean, again, you were a reporter ostensibly. Right.

What were you asking them? I mean, so I read Sports Illusture for kids. So it's like, what's your best advice? I mean, these interviews would be, you know, two, three minutes long. So it's like, what's your, you know, best advice that you could give to a kid? What's your favorite food? And, you know, if you favorite childhood memories, things like that. Those are like the things that I would stick to that was familiar to, like, the magazine itself.

So nothing like groundbreaking at all. Right. So wait a minute. So I'm looking at the photographic library that you have, thanks to your dad, and running this scam. and it takes you far more than just a couple of places. I mean, you're going seemingly everywhere doing this stuff. Yeah, we went to CGA. We went to, there's a time where I met Nancy Kerrigan,

and that was at Chelsea Pierce. He knew that she was there for, like, some event. He picked me up early from school. That was another thing. My dad, I mean, he didn't care about school. School was being with him. That was the learning experience. So he'd pick me up early from school, you know,

and I'd leave and we'd drive. It was about a 45-minute drive from our house to wherever we're going to Manhattan. And he secured this, basically the ice for me to skate with Nancy Kerrigan. After he made her hold up one of my hockey jerseys to take, like, a picture and everything. So this is right after the Olympics incident. And the photo of this is just like, again, like, look at this. Holding on my jersey. Yeah, my dad had no shame.

So, yeah, so I have my skates on in that picture, too. Yeah, just like, again, jeans, big red sort of like sweater and an ecstatic Nancy Carrigan holding up the Veter number 13. Yeah. White, black, and gray hockey jersey. So the other thing was these are memories that I couldn't share when I was a kid. I was going to ask, like, are you bragging to all your friends that this is all happening? He wanted to keep it in-house.

So it's like, you know, if you wanted to keep doing this, you can't really reveal how we're doing it. And that's a lot because I'm going to all these games, having these cool memories. It sounds like the hardest part is to not tell anybody. Not to tell. And then, you know, your friends, you know, you want to brag because it's like, you know, your friends might have an autograph or something or they met somebody. I'm like, well, I met even cooler people than that. And I was, you know, and I'm in the locker rooms.

And I'm like, you know, I'm doing really neat stuff. But it was stuff that I couldn't share. And I didn't share until now, really. Right, right. I mean, some of these photos, man. I mean, there's John Elway just like his hand. engulfing your hand on the couch at the... That's a powerful man.

Yeah, his hand almost crushed my hand. You know, you shake someone's hand, you obviously have a, you should have a firm handshake, that's what you're told. That's what my dad taught me as well. But his was too firm, where it's like, dude, you're like crushing my hand. And so that I'll never, like, I'm like, this is like insane. Out of any... I'm like, this is too much.

You have a photo here where it's you and Richard Geer. And he is like, he's looking like he's playing your dad in the movie of your life. Like, he has, like, his arm around you, like, cradling you. I look back at these pictures and there's some with like some other celebrities as well as like Richard. They were like, they were just very warm to me. And it was, it's interesting because I'm like, I'm sure that happens now where like certain athletes and certain celebrities, they do that with kids that they're just meeting. But whatever it was, whatever my dad was spewing or whatever my look was, it just warned people to both of us. He looks thrilled.

Richard Gere looks thrilled. And right next to that photo, I presume, in the chronological order here, is Cindy Crawford. Yeah, they were dating at the time. Do you have a favorite of these encounters where... Bill Murray, because Space Jam just came out. I also knew him from, like, What About Bob and Ghostbusters? So, I don't know why I didn't say Ghostbusters first. I was going to say, what about Bob had?

That's a real thing I found out today. Gary Vee, what about Bob? I think it's hilarious. Why'd you need to kick Bob out of the house? Do you think he's gone? He's not gone? That's the whole point. He's never gone!

Is this some radical new therapy? You see? I was like, oh my God, Bill Murray. And then, I mean, I love comedy back then. I didn't realize how much as a kid. But I love comedy and I knew, like, S&L and things like that. So seeing Bill Murray, like, he was iconic back then. And I was pumped for that one.

I mean, you're kind of like living. Again, as a kid, I grew up in, I was born 85, so this is my wheelhouse. Like, this is, you're living my dream. Yeah, this is the midnight. Not that I dreamed about this part, but like, you're sitting here's the Tom Brocah in this photo. So, a lot, that's the thing is, yeah, I was meeting newscasters and, like, Tom Brocaw, and then there's Diane Sawyer, and I met Moripovich. So it's like, people that, like, at this time, I mean, they're huge in the media world. But, you know, kids don't, like, I didn't, I didn't care.

much about it, but it was like, I knew that they were important, especially at that time. So I'm like, these are photos that you should have. And yeah, I'm sitting and just sitting down with them. And they're very warm to me. I mean, the idea of you being a hockey fan, by the way, and you being around for 94 and the Rangers win the Stanley Cup in seven games. That was the most important thing for us. We didn't wind up going to any other playoff games.

Because I think, because I, like, conflicts with sports and hockey and Little League. But when they made it to the finals, my dad made it a point to make sure that we were going to those games. And we went to game one, game five, and game seven, all without a ticket. For game one, I sat in the press area. Game five, it was an open seat that was kind of like center ice-ish. And then game seven, I sat glass. And I'm in so many Getty images. And also I'm in the Rangers, like Stanley Cup video where I was able to like own in on myself.

and like I see the shirt that I'm wearing, but it was incredible. And my dad and I, again, not sitting together at all during these games. I'm with random family. The idea that you're like, you're living your own version of home alone. Yeah. Just like in Madison Square Garden is ridiculous.

For sure. I never went to another championship game since, but it was the most electric thing that I've ever experienced in my entire life. Being in the garden, Rangers clinching after not, you know, I'm not winning it for 54 years. and finally doing it. And after the game, I went into the locker room,

and I interviewed players on the Canucks, the losing team, and then I went right into the Rangers locker and watched him celebrate the Cup. I know. My dad made me go in there first to see the losers. That is cruel. Yeah. To the Canucks. I know, I know.

And they had to put on a happy face. Right. As this kid comes around, is like, what's your favorite food? And he's like, I just lost the Stanley Cup. Right, right. And seven games here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

These guys were just like standing there all depressed. And my dad's just snapping photos. Like he loved it. But then we go into the Rangers locker room and, you know, they're just, it's so joyous and they're drinking from the cup. And I remember Alexei Kovlov, who was a great player and I think he was a rookie that season, but he was just wasted. And I'm just seeing, I'm just seeing this. I'm like, this is just an experience that no other kid has ever had of going not only both locker rooms, but of course, sneaking in and being somewhere where you're not supposed to be. And then after that game, after being in the locker room, the Rangers go up to celebrate in the garden for their after party.

And my dad and I, we shuffle our way there. And this is the first time he was ever stopped. They told him that we couldn't go in because we just had press passes. I was going to say, like, so far, I should establish that, like, normal Sports Illustrated, like, adult version of Sports Illustrated reporters. Yeah. They're not necessarily getting the access that you have gotten so far, let alone, like, to where you're trying to go next. Yeah. And now we're trying to get into this after party and they're not letting us in.

And my dad's like trying to figure out a way to get us in. And this guy comes up to him and he asks him, he goes, do you have a roll of film? And my dad goes, yeah, I have a roll of film if you could get my son into the after party. So then my dad gives him a roll of film. This guy takes my hand and walks me into this after party. And my dad somehow gets in maybe like 10 minutes later somehow. I don't know how. but he figures out a way to get in.

Yeah, he says my son has my tickets. Yeah, I go in there and I had a hat that I wanted signed by the four All-Stars of the Rangers that year. He was Adam Greys, Mike Richter, Brian Leach, and Mark Messier. Of course. So I got them all signed, and then I left him. I probably went home that morning at like four or five in the morning, and then I had school the next day. So I go in and I can't say anything to anybody. What is it like to be in class?

Having just done that, I assume you've like, you're on very little sleep. you're still high off of the secondhand alcoholism that's going on in that locker room. Well, I can't say a thing to anybody, but yet I'm living this life. You know, the teacher's saying whatever, but I remember I'm just having kind of like this outer body experience where it was like I was just in the most amazing setting I've ever experienced in my entire life, watching like the energy of the garden, of the Rangers winning the cup, going the locker room, seeing this thing, one that I can't share. I'm like the world, to me the world was like a different thing.

I'm like, you could get places by doing the things that my dad and I did. I guess a question that I should have asked already, but is seemingly important to how this all goes. Did you ever run into the actual Sports Illustrated for Kids reporters? So it was at the Jordan game. That's where it happened. So when Jordan, the game that I met Michael Jordan at, it was in 1995 and it was his fifth game back in the NBA after he, retired to play baseball and then came back. So right after his first comeback.

And everybody wanted to be at this game. This was the biggest, this was, this was as big as the Stanley Cup, really. Oh, yeah, it was the resurrection. And that day has arrived. 21 months have passed since Michael Jordan last played competitive basketball. For 21 months, the NBA was without its supreme artist. There may be many interesting peripheral aspects to both his departure and return. But at the heart of it is simply this.

The best in the world is back. People thought Jordan was done and that we're never going to see Jordan play again. And he comes back to the garden wearing number 45. And, you know, my dad, he didn't love sports as much as I did. He wasn't keeping in touch with what was going on in the news. And I saw that the Knicks were playing the Bulls. I would read the newspaper every day. And I saw the Knicks were playing the Bulls.

And then I asked my dad, I'm like, can we go to this game? And the day of he makes arrangements for us to get press passes. And I can only imagine how difficult that must have been because so much press was there. Yes. We arrived that day at the garden. And this is the first time ever this happened. But the Real Sports Illustrated for kids was there. To interview Michael Jordan, you know, Scotty and Phil Jackson.

Of course. And they were there. And my dad made it a point for us to talk to them. He knew that they were there. didn't lead on to say that we were sports associate for kids, but he wanted to get their information, learn a little bit more about what they were doing. So you guys go up to the people that most other scammers would doiously try to avoid. Yep. Yeah, he had no fear. And he used their, you know, got their information, maybe got a couple names from them. I don't remember the exact conversation,

but I know we got a business card from them. And we walk away. And, you know, when you talk to sports, Social Security. I'm just standing there. I'm like, I don't want to give up the fact that, like, I could, I'm not as good of a liar as my dad, but he's talking. He has no worries that I could say something that that's not, you know, corroborating his story. Yeah. But he's just, he has no problem, talks to them. Then we walk away. And, you know, game goes on and Jordan puts up, it's his famous double nickel game. Got a witness, got a witness history. I can't, I mean, that's unbelievable. It was unbelievable. I still remember. I still remember. images from that game and I'm, you know, I'm 11, 12 years old at that time. And then the game ends and everybody bum rushes to, the press bum rushes to get into that locker room. And one of the things my dad always did was he took pictures of the security guards and he took pictures of me with the security guards. So they knew who we were because we've been, at this point, we've probably been to over 30, 30,

40 games at the garden. Wait, wait, wait, wait. So your dad, this whole time had also been charming. the security. Oh, completely. Yeah. Because you never know when you're going to need someone's help. So they warmed up to him just like everybody else did. And when they saw us, they weren't going to be the ones to say no to us because they've been friendly with us the entire time. They gave us the go ahead to go through to the Bulls locker room where everybody wanted to go. And the sports illustrated for kids guys. And again, they're adults. Yes. Yeah, they're grownups. Yeah, they're grownups. So they are at the back of the line. with everybody else, just not able to get in. And my dad and I, we go in and we're waiting around,

trying to, you know, see who we could get, you know, autographs from, interviews from. And I met Scotty. I met Phil Jackson. And my dad, I don't know who he talked to, but he talked to somebody. And that person led us into a private room where Michael was. So I walk into this room.

It's my dad and Michael Jordan just sitting down. And I sit right next to Michael Jordan. And I ask him my questions. And your pivotal question, which was. Yeah. What's your favorite food? And he said. Yeah.

And he said, and he goes steak. And I'm like, boom, nailed it. And got the autograph card. And I was wearing feelless sneakers for some reason. Big mistake. And he goes, you know, you should be wearing Nikes. At that moment, I was like, I think back to everything I could have said, which would have been like, can you give me a pair?

That would have been like the ideal thing. But I didn't. Because you have a journalist against. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. And then my dad snapped those photos, and we walked out. And as we're walking out and leaving the garden, we see the Sports Illustrator for kids guys, and they're still trying to get in. Yeah, I realize now suddenly that I should not be laughing because I'm really laughing at myself.

As someone who did the job of Sports Illustrator for kids' grown-up reporter at one point. Yeah, yeah. But the access, just for people who don't understand this, being in the private backpack room with Michael Jordan after he drops 55 in his first game back, not a place that normal reporters. Veteran reporters are getting access to. It's unbelievable how this thing, I mean, it sounds like the one night where it seems like, oh, shit, we might be going to prison. Yeah.

Because we've run into the people we're impersonating actually results in like the greatest scam that you guys pulled off in this. Yeah. And not only that, the coolest thing that I realized was, and it wasn't until later, I interviewed a sports editor from from S.I. This guy Mark Bechtel. Oh, I know Bechtel. He was one of my editors. Oh, yeah, great guy. And

we were trying to get a time frame of like, so I told him, you know, when I met Michael. And he says, so you met him in 1995. Well, back in 94, he stopped taking interviews with Sports Illustrated because of Bag it Michael. Bag it Michael.

So for people who don't remember this part, Sports Illustrated put Michael Jordan on the cover when he was playing for the Birmingham Barrens. in minor league baseball, and it said, Bagget, comma, Michael. Like, give up. Yeah, completely crapped on him. And he took such offense to that,

that he said that he would never take another interview with Sports Illustrated again. And he kept his word up until I met him. So I was technically the last person to ever interview Michael Jordan for Sports Illustrated, but it wasn't even really for Sports Illustrated. Oh, my God. Yeah. I was going to ask, and I should have asked this question too earlier, probably,

What was your mom thinking throughout all of this? I mean, she sees the joy that it's bringing me. And that's a tough thing to be in a position of where she knows her husband is being dishonest. And she knows that it's definitely teaching her son some unethical things. But it's bringing me happiness. I'm getting to meet people that I wouldn't get to normally meet. My dad didn't, from what I saw, he didn't have the means to buy these tickets. He didn't have the means to pay for an autograph for,

you know, Michael Jordan, he had to figure out a way to do it. And it really put me around people that were successful that kids don't really get to see. So I saw, you know, you're meeting Shaq, you're meeting, you know, Cindy Crawford, Richard Gear, you're meeting really people at the height of their careers. You're crawling inside of a television in an era when television, seeing these people, it was not like it is now. Yeah. You don't have access to people on social media.

Like, this was like truly meeting, uh, real life. live superheroes. Yeah, and you don't think that you'll ever have a chance to be side by side with them. And then you do. And it kind of gives you like this special feeling that maybe you're different. Maybe you could accomplish things and be like them. But, you know, I'm around all these people. I'm like, I'm also around my dad who's also great. But for different reasons of being great at something that I wasn't necessarily proud of. But he was, you know, someone that that really was spectacular at what he was doing. Yeah, when I hear you remember this stuff, I see the entanglement of all of it. The idea that, like, I love this.

This was, like, truly, like a child's dream to do everything you did. And at the same time, feeling like I shouldn't be proud of this on some level. That the access you got was born of an obvious now, in retrospect, live. Yeah. And, you know, I'm watching my dad do all this stuff. And, you know, as I got older, I'm like, well, you're putting so much effort into these lies. You could have done that in an honest way, too, and still been successful. All the smarts that it took to come up with these schemes, you could have used that to your advantage to really become something positive.

But this is what, you know, he got joy in these lies. It wasn't until I wound up having a son of my own and just so happened to be that the last dance documentary came out at the same time where I'm like, you know, I have my. son the last day i'm like maybe i should just like it's been 24 years maybe i should just like tell people like this experience that i had and see the reaction and i just posted some of the pictures that i was able to dig up and it just like it really got like a positive response and it started making me think about like what is my dad doing now when did you stop doing the sports illustrated for kids scam. Well, I stopped doing it when the last time I did it, I was about to be close to 15. So it was- Oh, wow. You were pushing the envelope. I know. Well, so fortunately for me, I look pretty

young when I was, you know, going into my teenage years. So that definitely helped to extend it a little bit. But yeah, it stopped because you just want to stop lying. You want to meet, you really want to meet people for the person that you are instead of posing as something else. So you feel you know you started feeling like oh it's cool but then as uh as time went on oh i'm an imposter and that doesn't feel great yeah um when did it sort of dawn on you that you were also being used because of course as you're feeling all of these like joyous euphoric feelings there's also the reality that like oh right i'm also um i'm also getting my dad something here and maybe that's the point when we're going to all these games

and I go back to him saying that he wasn't my dad it's like you want to have some sort of bond with him when you're having these experiences and where he's not saying he's my father we're not sitting together and we're not talking about how great the game was either

we're talking about how great the con was so it's like these were the things that he loved and it seemed to override really what the experience should be with like a father and son at one of these sporting events and yeah that kind of just you know takes a toll on you when was the last time you guys had spoken uh 24 years so no no contact no texts or emails or anything like that i made the decision that you know the lies and the cons became like too much that it was just never ending and i couldn't be around them

anymore. And it wasn't just me. It was, you know, definitely my mom and my sisters, too. They had a, break apart, too. Right. And it sounds like in the years since, of course, now 24 years later, you haven't spoken to your dad, as you said, you've been trying to piece together who your dad actually was. Yeah, like, you know, did I remember everything the way I think I remember it? And the sports stuff definitely is at the forefront of my memory and those things I remember very clearly. Yeah, yeah, the photographs too. And, you know, we did it so many times. But yeah, like the other things about learning the cons that he pulled that I heard about. I remember people saying like my dad had a had a furniture scam going on and like, well, what was it? Like let me learn more about what he did. You know, what's the background? Who was he involved with? You know, who's involved with definitely some like shady people. And he definitely treads the water of like being around like, you know, mafia style people. And he did a lot of these illegal businesses that also would help benefit other people, too. Right.

Was there one question that you were most invested in having answered? Yeah. So my dad was involved in this payphone business. And back in the early 90s, you know. This is a very 90s. Yeah, yeah, it's so 90s. But he was involved in a payphone business. So he had different pay phones in various locations throughout Long Island and New York City.

And he traveled and he collected. money out of the pay phones and he had people that work for him and he'd also like repair phone lines and everything but his catch was his scam when this uh situation was he was posing as at t and t that's how he was getting all these locations so every every location if you're toys or russ you're putting the phone in um because my father's saying he works for at t and he's collecting on these payments um so at t and t eventually gets wind of this and they have to tell him to shut down his business he doesn't want to do it marshals eventually storm and raid my home the U.S. Marshals, not the department store.

Which he also had pay phones in, by the way, not making that up. He really did. That's funny thing, brother, that. But, yeah, the U.S. Marshals raid our house, and they take a whole bunch of things, and they have a whole bunch of evidence. And eventually, my dad's back is against the wall. And this place where they're keeping all the evidence magically just gets broken into. And evidence goes missing.

Like Little League equipment. Exactly. Like Little League equipment. equipment and nobody knows what happened to it. Did he do it? The problem when you're dealing with somebody who's lied so much in their life is that so many mistruths have been told along the way. So you're trying to figure out, even from somebody else's experience, did this actually take place? Gary, what I'm left realizing that I have found out today is that you started your career with your dad as a fake journalist. Yeah, yeah. And he has turned you over two decades later,

into a real one. Somewhat, yeah. You're actually reporting a story. I appreciate you calling me a journalist. I'm definitely, there's investigative reporting, and I'm like very sloppy in doing it. But I feel like, yeah, I try my best in a fun way to get out the story. That was a very, in a way, fun and tragic time at the same point of going back to my childhood. Right, but you're searching for the truth.

Right. Searching for the truth, trying to get a better understanding of my father. And learning that, the goal is to. to track my dad down and find out what he's been up to after all this time, after 24 years, to hear his side of these things. And is he going to be that person, be the same person that he was 24 years ago, or has he changed? Right, right. At the end here, what are you left thinking about?

You mentioned that you're a dad now. What are you left thinking about how you want to be a parent to your son as sports, least is concerned. The experiences that I had with my dad, I think that they're very memorable, the sports stuff. So I look at it as like, if I could do the things with my son, but take out the negative parts that I didn't like with my dad, that'd be great. If we could go to the game, if we could sit, you know, if we could sit together, if we could watch the game, if we could, if he could just have a love for it without me being so involved. And my dad, you know, was very over the top. If you, you know, not be a coach, but just watch from the sidelines, but be. You know,

supportive. These are the things that I would want to have my son experience just because that's what I wanted. But also listen to him. Listen to what he actually wants. Maybe he doesn't want to play sports. And that's fine too. But either way, I would really listen to him. Listen to what he wants because I didn't feel like my dad was always listening to my needs. Gary Veter, it was really good to listen to you. Thank you for doing this. Thanks for having me, Pablo. And for more on Gary Veter's ongoing investigation into his own father and us himself, you can go listen to his new podcast series, number one dad, which just came out this week. But as for us, any good episode is like a good con.

It requires a team. And Pablo Torre finds out is produced by Michael Antonucci, Walter Avaroma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lohman, Rob McCray, Rachel Miller-Hawood, Ethan Shrier, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Chris Tuminello, and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems, our sound design by NGW Post, our theme song by John Bravo. And I am going on an international mission next week. But stay tuned. We'll have something for you on Tuesday.